“Don’t bother bringing anything,” my friend Fred Williams (the off-road legend) told me when he heard I was moving to LA. “You’re going to find better options out here; there is no point in bringing your rusty cars out west,” said. It was advice that I immediately ignored, because I loved my 1985 Jeep J10, I thought my 1979 Jeep Cherokee Golden Eagle was the bee’s knees, and come on — my manual Jeep ZJ is basically rust free! Plus I bet I couldn’t afford replacements in California. Now, a few years later, Fred asked me over the phone: “That advice I gave you a few years ago… was it… good advice?” Yes, Fred. Yes it was.
I don’t think I fully understood California’s old car market when I moved here in early 2023.
Just a few month prior, some guy from here had stopped in my Troy, Michigan driveway and aggressively tried to get me to sell my brother’s 1966 Mustang, responding to my refusal with, essentially, “Just call your brother; everything in this world is for sale.”
This, plus just the general sentiments that many in the midwest have towards California had me thinking I wouldn’t have enough scratch to find a decent Jeep J10 or other classic out west. The prices would be inflated, I figured.
But I was wrong. In fact, I’ve written all about how I wrong I was in an article aptly titled “I Was Totally Wrong About California Craigslist.” See, while average salaries are higher in California, and while the upper end of the income distribution is absolutely through the roof, the reality is that owning a car in California is hard for most people.
Most don’t have the disposable income to buy a weekend-driver Jeep J10, and if they do, they don’t have the space for it. It’s for this reason that I not only regret having brought my J10 to the west coast, I actually regret having bought it in the first place from anywhere else. I should have bought all my project cars from here.
The cars in California are just better. So, so much better, and they are not more expensive.
That’s what I didn’t understand when Fred gave me that advice. Craigslist here is filled with rust-free gems for dirt-cheap. It’s only the minty-fresh, shiny cars that command an absurd premium. A sun-faded XJ that needs a headliner and maybe a little dent on the hood repaired is $3000. In Michigan, $3000 gets you that, plus rusty rocker panels that would cost four-figures to repair, and even then the rest of the car will have already started its journey towards becoming a pile of brown particles
All of this is coming to mind because I’m currently in the process of choosing which truck to keep. There’s the Jeep J10, shown above (that’s how it looked 10 years ago, and it hasn’t improved), and then there’s my Chevy K1500, which I had no plans to keep when I bought it.
I love the J10; I think it’s more interesting and soulful than the K1500. But folks, just look at this:
Aside from the exhaust, only the chassis has even a tiny bit of surface rust. otherwise this truck is MINT. I don’t have to worry about sanding or priming or cutting bits out or sections of it possibly starting to perforate — a major concern on my Jeep J10 exacerbated by a design flaw.
No, the K1500 should last for the rest of my life if I just do routine maintenance and avoid collisions. It’s rock solid, and it was relatively cheap at $4,900. In Detroit, this truck would have cost more.
My having ignored Fred’s advice means I’m in the unenviable position of possibly having to sell a slightly rusty machine in California, and this is extremely difficult. Folks around here don’t do rust. I’m not joking when I say: Vehicles that in Michigan would literally be described as “rust free” would be considered “rusty” here. That’s because, in Michigan — where older vehicles are expected to have huge rust holes in their floors, frames, and rockers — surface rust doesn’t really count as rust. In California, surface rust is a big deal; it spells the beginning of the end, and people run from it.
So finding a home for my J10, if I am able to get myself to part ways with it, isn’t really going to happen here in California unless I give it away. Especially since it won’t pass SMOG.
The thing is, even though the J10 has a few rust holes, once those are patched, this thing’s body will be in great shape overall. It doesn’t need much, which is why part of me wants to just sell the Chevy for a decent sum after detailing it and dialing it in, and then giving the J10 the love (and perhaps fuel injection) it deserves. Because I worry nobody else around here will.
Anyway, this was a random little article, but this is on my mind right now: I should have listened to Fred.
I think you getting the J10 California-ready, even if it means dropping in a new engine or something, would be an article [series] I’d much rather read than more about how your big boring Chevy is perfect.
I fantasize about moving to CA just for the vehicles, but then I realize if I did, I’d be far too poor to be able to afford any project vehicles.
Every time I’m there, I marvel at the random old vehicles that simply no longer exist in the northeast that are being used a DD’s, work trucks, etc.
Also, I’m super jealous that you’re friends with Fred.
There are other Western states with rust free cars. Just look at which states use road salt and which do not.
Which is something I’ve been wondering since I move to Oregon 10 years ago – WHY do states on the east side of the country dump tons and tons of salt on the road every year? Growing up in Michigan it seems obvious – you salt the roads because it snows and you have to melt the snow. It was simply a given that a car would have huge rust holes within a decade. Then I move to Oregon when the passes get feet of snow and we don’t salt. Instead we require people to use winter tires or chain up. (After chaining up 6 times in one weekend I bought a set of snow tires). You see 40 year old rust free cars and trucks here and not because they have been restored – they just never rusted.
I also discovered that snow tires are magic in winter time.
Also, the salt isn’t just bad for your cars, it’s bad for the roads that you’re throwing it on, especially if they’re on top of say, an iron bridge. So what that the snow will melt at 20 degrees instead of 32, it’s -10 with a 30mph north wind, it ain’t melting! And then when it eventually does warm up enough to melt, it refreezes overnight into solid ice, which is even worse than the snow. The logic of our state and county highway departments is quite often confounding.
David, Californians do not like rust, but they loooooooooove patina.
The key here is to turn the bug into a feature on the J10. That means patching the big holes then sanding and sealing the finish to make the surface look… stylishly crappy.
As the sage Judge Phil/Murilee Martin famously said, this is “the land that rust forgot.”
Californians are super spoiled when it comes to cars. Recently David Freiburger bought a rust free FSJ Cherokee for $8k and was complaining about spending too much, and the whole time I’m thinking you ONLY spent $8k for a rust free FSJ in TYOOL 2025?! Like I thought those stopped existing in the 80s or early 90s, so that thing is basically a Pegasus unicorn, but he feels ripped off because it needed minor mechanical work.
I’m always so jealous when Freiburger pulls some 60-year-old heap out of the junkyard and just starts unbolting things with no trouble. Can’t even do that with a ten-year-old car here in the northeast.
Yeah, one of the smartest things I’ve done in my adult life is realizing a 1 way plane ticket to get a car from out west or way down south is FAR cheaper than dealing with rust, especially when you consider how it plays out over years. Brake lines, exhaust systems, on and on all go to crap in the rust belt and require more frequent replacement. It’s not JUST the body.
In 2013 I flew down to Texas to pick up a $3000 Honda and I’ve put over 100k on it since, it’s only needed control arms and a temp sender.
The “Project cars are cheap here because they are plentiful and nobody can afford them”, is not really an endorsement of living in California.
Not only that, but how many of those cars are cheap because they can’t pass California’s stringent emission standards, or require expensive CARB-certified emissions components?
Lots, which can be a good thing if you know what you’re doing or a major headache if you don’t.
Does “there’s no rust because the weather doesn’t suck” do anything for you?
If I cant afford a house with a garage….no.
I like my sucky weather, thank you very much.
I was shocked working in New Hampshire for a summer and the 5 year old company car I drove had rust all over the lower body. You never see anything close to that on 20 year old cars on the west coast.
bring it back to the midwest and sell it.
I do think folks can’t really wrap their head around
1. How many people and vehicles there are in just SoCal alone.
2.How rust is not a thing
3.How requiring emissions and certification keeps old cars in pristine shape.
4.How viable a motorcycle, ebike or shortrange electric could be for those millions and millions of commuters.
Only if the car is worth keeping in such shape, and the owner can afford to do so. It’s not uncommon for people to bodge their old car together to get it through an inspection, but in the long run they only end up making it worse. Maybe it’s not as common out west, but in the rust belt, or across the pond in the UK, there’s a lot of DI-WHY?! sort of repairs done to cars.
Honestly, i’m torn here. The rational side of me says ditch the J10. it won’t pass smog and the Chevy is just in a much better condition. Plus, with the new baby and all that comes with home ownership, where are you going to find the time to work on the J10.
However, being that you run an automotive website and the attachment you have to the J10… it could make for a different round of articles. The J10 doesn’t pass smog. You mentioned adding Fuel Injection to it to help. But, to do so requires you to only install CARB certified parts for it (which i’m not sure that there are). Maybe it’s an engine swap with a later fuel injected 4.0L. That would require being certified by CARB as a legal engine swap. That’s a whole series of articles on how enthusiasts have to navigate through CARB to do things like this to vehicles built after 1976 (at least until Leno’s law is passed)
These are all really great points, and for almost any otherperson than DT the answer would be obvious. You’re also 100% correct in that the J10 presents a ton of really great content opportunities.
I don’t know The Autopian’s financials, but would a deal like (I believe) Donut did with some of the presenters’ project cars where the company purchases the car and everything that goes with it for content generation be a viable option? I’m only asking because it would free DT from the burden of owning it while still allowing for the content creation.
1983 Nissan/Datsun 720
1984 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo
1978 Chevy Nova Custom
1971 Buick Centurion
1984 Mazda B2000 Sundowner
1988 Olds Cutlass Calais Quad 4
2002 Mazda Protege DX
1989 Ford Probe GL
1991 Nissan Pathfinder XE
1991 Mazda Miata
1989 Cadillac Coupe DeVille
These are all cars I’ve owned, and loved, and sold. (I’ve owned a lot more that I didn’t have strong feelings for one way or another, and a couple that I actively despised.) I sold all of them when they didn’t make sense to own anymore. Yeah, it sucked to watch them drive away with someone else, but that’s just how it goes sometimes. They’re just cars. Time and money and sanity are sometimes more important.
Sell the J10 (to someone in Nevada or Utah or Arizona or Mexico who doesn’t care about smog tests), and make new, better memories with the Chevy.
If you’re going to sell the J10, which I imagine you’d miss for nostalgia, try to get it sold somewhere in Utah or Idaho. Never seen so many jeep products in my life as when I lived in Utah, and traveled through Idaho regularly, plus rust there isn’t really a deterrent as they salt the ever loving shit out of their roads. I had to replace the previously granola curtain level rust free quarters on my 74 buick within two years of arriving there because it was my only car while I was in college so I had to drive it in the winter.
I lived in Utah most of my life and never had any issues with vehicle rust, including 2 90s Mazdas that are known to have been rusty on the showroom floor. We used salt, but it never seemed to cause real rust issues. Even when wrenching, I never found rusty bolts to be much of an issue.
Those of us here in the UK who are involved in owning/repairing old VW busses and beetles are quite familiar with used parts from California being in great shape. We are not at all envious 🙂
We all tried to tell you this David, cool old cars here are cheap as hell and really clean. I didn’t really believe it either until I paid $1200 for a 89 ranger without a spec of rust on it, sure it needed mechanical work but it’s a truck that would have been $3k easy in Missouri. Hell I paid more for trucks in worse shape there. I’ve only been here 4 years but yeah, I’m not buying a car with more than the tiniest bit of rust anymore.
Nobody is gonna buy your J10 out here unless it is for parts or pennies.
If any are a gross polluter, California will pay you to scrap them (ducks, to dodge rock).
They still do that? 30 years later, after that scheme was basically proven to be bogus? Gross.
A friends mom brought her Michigan truck over here to California. She said it was in good shape. I took one look underneath and would have sent it to the scrapper.
> My having ignored Fred’s advice
Fred and hundreds of us. :p
Here’s the thing, though. Those cars weren’t worth having around already when you still lived in MI. Moving them to CA was a puzzling choice.
I strongly disagree. The J10 is awesome, the Mustang is awesome, a stickshift ZJ is one of the best Jeeps ever made, and the Golden Eagle… I mean, just look at it!
Being from MA and VT and knowing a bit about rust, I think that you should end all of your above statements with “…in Michigan”.
They’re awesome when they’re in good condition :p
No shit? Huh.
“No Shit” was my automatic knee-jerk response, literally I said out loud when I read the title of this post.
I totally understand your thinking David (w/o any living experience in CA).
Still count me in among those that found the time/energy/effort involved in moving multiple project cars from MI to CA very puzzling.
Only makes sense if you have sentimental reasons for keeping each “that specific vehicle” of each make/model. For example your brothers Mustang…
Well I know how i got a rusty old brat in a place where a bare metal hood takes a month to get rust dots on the surface.
Bringing stuff from a rusty area to a rust free area always spells disaster. Ive brought stuff with a bit of rust in for an alignment and have had to show the guy how to break slightly rusty loose. Alot of people end up getting tie rod ends replaced because there is enough rust it’s hard to turn. A some places are starting to use salt on the roads that historically haven’t should make things interesting in the future.
I had a 98 F150 STX (v8 5 speed) that I bought new in Michigan, I really liked the truck alot but by the time is was 10 years old I was fixing things related to salt induced rust such as brake lines, gas tanks, exhaust manifolds. The body looked really good at 15 years old but the rocker panels were soft under the heavy chip guard. I moved to the PNW in 2013 and decided it was best to let it go and leave it in Michigan.
Put the J-10 body on the K1500. Best of both worlds!
(Bonus: do it with Fred and make amazing content.)
This is an amazing idea that he should 100% do! Fred could knock this out in a weekend.
The obviousness of the Chevy vs. Jeep choice blazes brighter than the noonday sun, but I don’t expect David to make the easy choice! 🙂
Unconditional love doesn’t always work out.