If stock futures are any indication, it’s probably going to be a good day to peek at your 401(k) or pension. The reason? Negotiators from China and the United States have reached a deal. Well, they’ve reached a deal to reach a deal, and in the interim, tariffs are being massively rolled back.
It’s another morning of trade here at The Morning Dump, but perhaps I’ll be influenced by the market a bit and will give in to a bit of hope. Maybe there’s some good that can come of this. Maybe there’s a path to get affordable, yet nice, electric cars and hybrids into the United States market.
Execs already think Chinese cars are coming one way or another, even if there are a million trade barriers at the moment. How? Foxconn could be a model and, oh, look at that: Foxconn is going to do contract manufacturing for Mitsubishi.
The Art Of The Deal To Make A Deal
My perspective on the UK-US deal-to-make-a-deal was that it seemed to disadvantage carmakers already in the United States for no real obvious gain. I feel similarly about the just-announced pullback of Chinese-US tariffs.
Here’s the Associated Press on the outline of the outline of the deal to make a deal:
China’s Commerce Ministry said the two sides agreed to cancel 91% in tariffs on each other’s goods and suspend another 24% in tariffs for 90 days, bringing the total reduction to 115 percentage points.
The ministry called the agreement an important step for the resolution of the two countries’ differences and said it lays the foundation for further cooperation.
“This initiative aligns with the expectations of producers and consumers in both countries and serves the interests of both nations as well as the common interests of the world,” a ministry statement said.
China hopes the United States will stop “the erroneous practice of unilateral tariff hikes” and work with China to safeguard the development of their economic and trade relations, injecting more certainty and stability into the global economy, the ministry said.
The most important aspect of this is that both sides agree that they don’t want a “decoupling.” I.e., neither wants to live in a world without the other. The details are extraordinarily vague at this moment, and I don’t think this has any impact on the many existing tariffs in place against Chinese cars, including the ones put there by President Joe Biden.
Maybe those car tariffs should be lowered? I’m going to get Swiftian again, both in the Jonathan and Taylor sense (we’re going Red!) of the word. First, though, a reality check.
Survey: 76% Of Auto Execs Think Chinese Cars Will Enter The U.S. Market Eventually
The idea of Chinese automakers in the United States isn’t so far-fetched, at least according to a new survey. The latest report talked to more than 100 execs from various automakers in the country and found that most of them (76%) assume Chinese automakers are going to eventually sell cars to American consumers (arguably, with brands like Polestar and Lotus, and Chinese-made cars from Buick and Lincoln, this is already happening).
Erin Kerrigan, managing director of Kerrigan Advisors, a dealership sell-side firm in Incline Village, Nev., said the questions about Chinese automakers were added to this year’s survey given their growing dominance globally and in their home market.
“These are considered real threats by the OEMs,” Kerrigan said.
About 70% of those surveyed said they were concerned about the financial impact of Chinese automakers globally.
The concept of cheap labor in China undercutting manufacturing in the United States is a concern, and it’s happened before. There are definitely security concerns around connected vehicles. A big issue with Chinese companies has frequently been the reasonable fears of forced labor being utilized. All of that is real and none of it is insurmountable.
My Modest Proposal For How It Could Work
Giving into hopium for at least one subhead, here’s a best-case scenario for almost everyone that keeps a lot of constituencies happy. I don’t even think it involves a bunch of cheap electric cars coming to the United States, though perhaps we’ll get a few of those as well.
What are the big problems here? Everyone wants nice, affordable, safe, and efficient cars. As Jim Farley showed, Chinese automakers know how to build a car that checks a lot of boxes.
Obviously, all the issues listed above have to be addressed. My solution? As part of a deal with China, we get cheaper raw materials and minerals (after the country agrees to better and more ethical mining practices, causing prices to go up slightly, which is also a good thing net for the United States as higher prices make more sources competitive). What does China get?
They get access to our market, but not with a lot of exports. The electric vehicles that can be imported here are limited to a certain size/weight class that we don’t generally build cars for, partially because of demand and partially because of price. I’m thinking small, compact EVs. Those cars can be from Chinese brands and can carry that branding, if that’s what the automaker wants. I.e, an automaker like BYD could bring in a Seagull, and it can be branded as a Seagull and sold through a BYD dealer.
At the same time, Chinese automakers are incentivized to build cars with American partners here under American brands. Western car companies already have joint ventures with Chinese OEMs (GM with SAIC-Wuling, Ford with Changan, Stellantis with Leapmotor), so it’s not hard to build on existing relationships or create new ones.
Anything larger than a small city car has to be sold via a Chinese-American JV (for our purposes, that could include existing foreign automakers like Hyundai or Toyota). For instance, BYD could sell its PHEV Shark truck here, but it could only do so via a JV and with American branding, so perhaps a deal with Stellantis could include Ram-branded Shark. If you look at the history of small trucks in America, most of those have been produced with Asian partners.
There are some guardrails necessary to make this successful:
- A Chinese OEM can’t just set up a JV with an American version of its own company.
- An increasing number of raw materials and supplies need to be sourced from the United States/USMCA zone (this is what Reagan did with Japanese OEMs in the ’80s).
- Labor needs to be, if not pre-agreed to unionized, at least in a structure where it’s possible.
- Some amount of technology transfer from China to the United States.
- “Connected” systems have to be vetted through a new agency/subagency set up to protect sensitive data systems.
There are probably some other issues that need to be thought through.
I also don’t think most of these cars should be solely electric. I think they should mostly be extended-range electric vehicles, or EREVs. It’s what most people seem to want/need if Europe is any indicator.
As Bloomberg reports, some of that is a response to regulation, but tastes matter as well:
Until recently, Chinese automakers had prioritized selling EVs in Europe, spurred by the region’s ambitious targets to lower carbon emissions and the desire to lead in the emerging segment of a global industry. That changed when the European Union imposed higher tariffs on Chinese-made EVs last year, after determining that generous subsidies from Beijing had created an unfair advantage for its battery-powered car industry.
With multiyear gains in EV sales at a plateau, Chinese carmakers have turned to more conventional drivetrains to pick up the slack.
EV powerhouse BYD Co., for instance, is for the first time selling significant numbers of plug-in hybrids in the EU and the UK. SAIC Motor Corp.’s MG sold almost 47,000 hybrid, plug-in hybrid and combustion engine-powered cars in EU countries in the first quarter, according to Dataforce. That was more than double its early 2024 tally, while EV sales fell by half.
There could be some room for plug-in hybrids as well, like the crazy Equinox PHEV in China that has a 621-mile range.
Again, there’s a lot here for different groups. The environmentalists get cleaner cars, the car companies get technology, the states get new businesses, and labor gets new members.
Foxconn Lands A Mitsubishi Deal
After a lot of tsuris over Foxconn maybe buying Nissan, it sounds like the Taiwanese megaconglomerate is going to get a deal to produce EVs for Mitsubishi… which is maybe what it wanted all along.
WardsAuto explains the ins-and-outs:
A new BEV Mitsubishi model is expected to be available by the end of 2026 under the contract, which would be Foxconn’s first major production deal in the sector it has been courting for some time.
It has previously said it would consider taking a stake in Nissan for vehicle production cooperation, as it has ambitions to diversify its business.
Foxtron, the company’s BEV joint venture with automaker Yulon Motor, counts Yulon-owned Luxgen as its main client in Taiwan.
The companies say in a statement that the cars will be built by Foxtron and “Foxtron will provide design and manufacturing management services, and this model is expected to enter the Australia and New Zealand markets in the second half of 2026,” the statement adds.
So, it’s not coming to the United States. At least not yet (although Foxconn has a plant in Ohio).
Foxconn itself is a cautionary tale. The iPhone was invented in Cupertino, but it couldn’t exist in its cheap and accessible form without China. Many people say they want electric cars, yet they’re not willing to pay the high prices for them. Merely opening the floodgates to cheap Chinese EVs in the United States may help solve the environmental problem, but it creates worse issues (though, eventually, the gorillas freeze to death).
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
Here we go! Yeah Yeah Yeahs with “Gold Lion” blowing up some drums.
The Big Question
Poke holes in my idea! Tell me why I’m dumb!
Photo: GM
Either the invisible hand of the market works with no nuance or caveats, and any jobs lost by US manufacturers to Chinese imports will be replaced by jobs that make more effective use of US capital (we should have no tariffs) or it doesn’t and we require competent government intervention to improve the talent pipeline for domestic manufacturing and incentivize the growth into new markets by acting as a general buyer that can absorb the growing pains necessary to develop the skillsets for these markets domestically over however many decades it takes (what China did).
But instead the US has taken the dumbest route, worst of both worlds, with tariffs distorting the market by protecting inefficient industries while simultaneously neutering the talent pipeline with attacks on science and academia.
Your idea is dumb (non-derogatory) because it presumes that the individuals on the US side are competent actors that want genuine improvements to the competitiveness of the US auto industry on the global scale, or renewed domestic production. A reminder that LFP chemistry was invented in the US. Tech transfers might help initially, but they don’t fix the problem that caused all of these issues in the first place: An educated, socially mobile populace is not seen as an unqualified good by a large plurality of those with financial or political power in the US.
What good are tech transfers gonna do if there are no grad students to explore different pathways for synthesizing cathodes? What’s the point of vetting Chinese connected systems if privacy is a forgotten concept and the data can be washed and acquired through a litany of US data mining companies? What good is Union Labor if all the contracts are based in “Right to Work” states where the union has very limited bargaining power? What’s the point of US sourced material if there’s no regulation on the mines, and they dump sulfates, copper salts, and all sorts of nasty shit into the water table and poison the next several generations of workers?
To use a sports analogy: we’ve got to stop spiking the ball and giving up turnovers. It could be so much easier if we stopped electing the dumbest collection of scam artists and wannabes to try and do genuinely hard things.
Which will never happen.
Which is why it will never happen.
I’m starting to wonder if I should go read The Art of the Deal. Mostly because I’d like to know if it really involves telling lies about your friends and enemies alike to piss off everyone, then meekly backing down when you get called out for being a sociopathic asshole. Because my observation of Trump’s “deals” in his two terms so far suggests that’s exactly the strategy.
I’m old enough to remember when Japanese imports threatened our entire way of life in America, depending on who you listened to. Seriously, I remember when people were vandalizing Japanese cars just for existing.
It turned out just fine I’d say. We not only got better choices but you could see the direct influence that that competition had to bring up the quality of American made cars. Not to mention the manufacturing and management lessons learned from bringing in Japanese cars the way it was done then. We even experienced some of the highest quality and reliable cars for a good 20 years there starting in about the early 90’s – although that seems to be slipping these days.
So it’s time we do it all over again. Bring in the Chinese cars and make competition cause everyone to re-focus on building quality cars at better prices.
I can see Chinese EVs eventually being sold here because they would only have to meet NHTSA standards. ERVRs would also have to meet EPA/CARB emission standards so I think they are less likely.
Your idea sounds a lot like how American cars got into the Chinese Market, which is not a bad thing. I think your plan would largely be okay, as long as we can figure out two things:
“we get cheaper raw materials and minerals (after the country agrees to better and more ethical mining practices”
Why would that even be on the table? Isn’t there a pretty strong push to get environmental considerations entirely out of any government or corporate decisions? Ethical treatment of poor people (foreign or domestic) isn’t something that can be discussed with a straight face in the present administration.
Why reward legacy US automakers for their lack of innovation and constant pushback against regulations?
These corporations have shown time and again that they will shutter a factory and doom entire areas they abandon to economic despair if they can save a nickel by moving production.
They have done their best to benefit from cheap foreign labor at great cost to US-based workers. Let them compete outright with other cheap foreign labor.
I think a potentially much simpler way to get Chinese vehicles (and any other world vehicles for that matter) into the US would be to have them delivered in Mexico, and have one of the Mexican states take over from Vermont for registering and putting plates on any old car.
Just like people take “medical vacations” to Mexico now for less expensive medical care, they could head across the border for a day, buy whatever car they want, have it registered in Mexico, and drive it back across the border. I wonder what cans of worms that would open up.
This is already a thing. Tons of people drive across the border from Mexico every day, and many of them are driving Chinese built vehicles. I live in San Diego and see Mexican plated Chinese vehicles pretty frequently.
I believe some Chinese automakers are setting up factories in Mexico, changing the country of origin for those models from China to Mexico and potentially allowing them to get around restrictions on importing Chinese-made vehicles.
Your suggestions as to how this could work are “lucid, intelligent and well thought-out. OVERRULED”.
Seriously, what part of the US trade and industrial policy made sense in the last 8 years? Since Obama inked the TPP, we’ve been flapping in the wind like a bunch of dimwits and shooting our toes one by one.
I won’t say you’re “dumb”, since it appeared as a loaded question, but not every party “wins” with Chinese cars. Not necessarily a bad thing.
—
Consumers gain additional choice. If the options are good, they can potentially meet their needs at a lower cost than today. Chinese manufacturers expand their customer base. Granted, that’s comes at the cost of incumbent players. If there is better product for the dollar (assuming there’s no dumping to grab market share), it will reduce the market share of incumbents. The auto market in the US isn’t materially growing outside of the US population itself growing. The better the product Chinese manufacturers offer, the more share they’ll take.
Is that a bad thing? It depends. Short-term there’s not a lot of impact, it’s the mid-and-long-term if incumbents lose material market share. The manufacturers and their suppliers lose business, which means their workforces suffer. There needs to be slack in the system to accommodate that transition, particularly for the workforce, as people need to retrain, potentially move, etc. to pursue other endeavors. That’s a process that happens over 5 to 20 years. Some percentage is left behind if they fail to transition.
Granted, those manufacturers may have desires or incentives to at least partially onshore manufacturing. That can reduce some of what I just previously mentioned. That also takes time if it were to occur.
—
Again, is it bad? Not really, depending on your perspective and whether or not you’re an existing actor in that system. It’s certainly messy though. That messiness is what everyone is afraid of, because it affects a lot of people.
How could we make sure that the cars built in China are done within international human rights expectations?
Oh that’s simple… we just turn a blind eye to things we don’t want to see!
so true!
lower expectations.
Done.
If Chinese cars make it to the US the US automakers- due to their own lack of quality control and high prices- will be bankrupt in 2 years or less. Plain and simple.
Like the tech sector did with so many industries like taxis.
Pretty accurate. It would be the end for whatever is left of the big three.
It’s not a solvable problem because the other guys play by vastly different rules. They will always subsidize, should we as well to compete? They have their migrant workers population with no rights or livable pay in the cities, should we create that class of serf workers? They muscle and micromanage their industries- do we want a doge office at every big industrial player as the CCCP does? Etc.
I feel like you would just end up in a similar place we’re currently in with Japan. You crack the door a bit, and people are like “Hey, these are cheap and alright. I would like more.” And the door just keeps creeping open a bit more. Till the Big 3 have to stop huffing glue, or whatever they’re doing. Then rapidly pump out various modals in attempt to compete. It becomes a question of like why gatekeep in the first place? A very reasonable argument would be to give our current industry time to prepare for competing. But, it’s not like they did the other time. Could they have learned, probably. They just might be addicted to those sweet, sweet 120 payments. And will just strip the copper pipes out, and make as much money as they can. instead of more measured renovation.
We’re in this weird game of footises with the Turbo-Captialist Communist. It’s like we don’t want to hang, but they got a lot of sweet toys over there. Even before Local Florida Man did economy by vibe. At some point in time, we’re going to have to pick our sweet treats or watching “The Car That Can Jump for Some Reason” on our black market TikTok, knowing we’ll never experience it. Someone just pick a lane, and prepare for said choice. Because right now it seems highly likely the lane is “give me the sweet treats”, and our current industries probably won’t do well against cheap jumping cars. And they would rather kick can down road, then do some homework.
Also, never got why people are some afraid of the CCP spying on them. China don’t car that you went to Arby’s twice last Tuesday. It all feels like a useful villain for all those local tech companies that our currently monitoring us, who might somewhat care you’ve gone to Arby’s twice last Tuesday.
Oof, Arby’s twice in one day? I don’t think even our president could stomach that.
Of people, companies, and nations already spying on me – insurance companies and other financial institutions scare me far more than the Chinese government.
I just don’t see that we ‘need’ Chinese cars, and if it’s because they’re cheap well then we just need cheaper cars. Unfortunately US car makers won’t get there in their own so need market pressure so then we get back to we need Chinese cars as they’re the main game in town right now for that.
I am old enough to have lived through the Japanese and Korean cars being seen as cheap junk and then undercutting American car companies. I expect to see it again with the Chinese cars and it will give my conservative rural relatives an excuse to be loudly and publicly racist again.
Under $20,000 no tariff. Under $30,000 10% tariff. Over $30,000 25% tariff.
Domestic manufacturers make ZERO vehicles under $20K.
I had a similar thought, choose a price threshold that no automaker currently in the US has a desire to go below and let the Chinese makers bring over whatever fits in that bracket.
Nobody makes a vehicle under $20k now, except the stickshift Versa, and that’s going out of production before long. The Mirage is already out of production.
I actually like your idea a lot Matt, except the union part.
There is power in a union.
Yeah, for the union, not for anyone else.
Unions, and union workers, only care for themselves.
“none of it is insurmountable”
It’s early for me, but I don’t understand this sentence. Are we to get over our “real” concerns and fears?
pssssst, we already have Chinese cars here, though the Chinese discount isn’t passed on. Especially Buick and Volvo
Time to build cars people can actually afford. Signing on to the international UNECE standards would also help. We should accept both the current US standards as well as the international standards.
Someone can still sell a brand new car at a 4-digit price even now. There are Chinese and non-Chinese cars that could do it.
Renault Kwid -> Mitsubishi Kwid
Renault Twingo -> Nissan Twingo
Suzuki Swift -> Chevy Metro
Toyota should sell the Vios here.
Honda should sell the Brio here.
GM has a lot of cool cars at fair prices in their Mexican lineup. In fact, GM’s best, most comprehensive lineup is actually in Mexico.
In the 80s with the Japanese voluntary quota shit, Detroit didn’t take advantage of a price advantage. Nope, they has the audacity to raise their prices and eliminate any advantage they’d otherwise have. Toyota taught GM everything, but they learned nothing. Jim Farley has Toyota on his resume and learned nothing.
Time and time again, American car companies learn NOTHING, and they should NOT have been bailed out.
I havent thought about what GM sells in Mexico in years. Went and looked. Yep. They have some decent small cars and SUVs there that could easily sell here.
Yeah I was going to mention Polestar is literally a Chinese company selling here the price here vs china is crazy. Though they are actually building the 3’s here unlike the 2’s.
There does not seem to me to be a compelling case to allow Chinese vehicles here.
The market as it currently exists covers the needs of pretty much anyone who actually buys new vehicles.
What is a Chinese EV going to do that a Slate or Gen 2 Bolt isn’t, except be a security risk and funnel money to a geopolitical adversary?
I’m frankly tired of this site cheerleading for communist oppressors and governments who wish us ill. The burden of proof should be on the avowed enemy to make the case for why they should be allowed here, not us rolling over and allowing it. No, I don’t care at this particular moment if you believe the US government is just as bad. I also don’t care if electronics, toys, etc already come from China. Allowing that was a mistake too. A mistake that should be corrected.
Tariffs on allies were and are dumb. Tariffs and sanctions on enemies have their place, even if this administration’s implementation of them leaves much to be desired in its execution.
I think if we are going to rework trade with China there’s a big risk of making the mistakes of the past, and rather than ignore them we should be proactive in protecting ourselves.
Arguably, it’s what has left the domestic three so uncompetitive throughout much of their lives.
They didn’t need to be competitive.
I am not convinced the Slate is going to happen at published rates.
I know you will push back but the “let the poor buy used” gets old after a while.
Don’t recall saying anything like that, if I have, it’s not my belief now.
I don’t think Chinese EVs that meet US standards would or could be sold for the prices their cheerleaders expect here, and there are plenty of cheap cars now for sale or coming.
It’s the poor themselves who seem to have found more value in used cars than new the last decade or so….the manufacturers didn’t discontinue subcompacts because they were hot-selling.
“The market as it currently exists covers the needs of pretty much anyone who actually buys new vehicles.” I must have misunderstood and the cheap cars being pulled was a chicken/egg thing they were not on the lots for people to buy and then the manufactures proved them selves correct to make high profit suv/trucks. The same thing happened with manual transmissions.
This was not even close to true, at least where I lived and shopped for cars. Plenty of subcompacts rotting away while people bought SUVs instead, new or used.
Pretty hard these days to go after China and accuse them of this or that when we- the USA- are now one of “those” countries. Literally arresting people and their families in the middle of the night, a president who ignores court orders, a president who just cost the US taxpayer over 10 TRILLION in lost retirement savings over a pointless “tariff” that showed trump for being a chump with China just doing nothing because they really dont need us as much anymore. Yeah. China’s government is brutal and abusive. But so are we. And will continue to do so until this cult is gone.
This site does not “cheerlead” any government. We write about cars; sure, sometimes that has to do with complex topics like imports/exports; sometimes that involves having to objectively review cars (and yeah, Chinese EVs are actually good); sometimes we have to talk about policy — but it’s a pro-car site, and most of us don’t give a damn about politics. Certainly not enough to cheerlead a government.
I myself am not a fan of the idea of Chinese automakers importing cars into the U.S. (for numerous reasons, one being: I don’t think there’s a level playing field). On this topic, Matt’s view may be a little different in certain ways than mine, which may be a little different than Jason’s, etc etc. This site is not a monolith. Folks have different opinions, and they’re allowed to share them, just as you’re totally welcome to disagree with them.
But the idea that “the site” cheerleads for a government just isn’t real.
I’d like to see this article written or this POV expressed more clearly and more often then. Because the opposite seems to dominate coverage of this issue here.
I’ll grant you that I believe the “cheerleading” phrase may have overstated things a bit. But in general I’m gonna have to agree with our V10-loving friend here; there is a general tone here on the site that any liberal-leaning POV is altruistic and good while conservative-leaning ones are evil and to be ridiculed.
I see most (most!) issues from both sides and I don’t think anything is completely black or white but there is definitely a slant. It’s actually hard to really even discuss anything here because it all comes unglued in the comments. The authors and articles generally do a good job (and I think Matt does better than most of you honestly) but I do see the biases and the comment section is nearly impossible to try to discuss anything without politics ruining it. The articles aren’t nearly as biased as in the comments certainly but it’s here.
If we’re going to get into the weeds then it really comes down to specifics and semantics. If you’re more conservative as in- smaller government, more money spent on the military, more limited government, a form of fiscal responsibility and whatever the GOP once stood for then fine. I’m game. If we’re talking anything about the current admin then fuck that as there is absolutely nothing redeeming, useful, or beneficial coming from it for the average American. Its pure evil and so far beyond ordinary day to day tit-for-tat partisan politics.
I’ve never personally felt this site leaned one way or another. It just is and it talks about cars.
I do not want Chinese cars to come here because they would probably destroy the US auto industry. Millions of jobs would be lost. But this SHOULD be a wakeup call to the “Big three” that they had better prepare for that inevitability. Its just REALLY aggravating that here we are, all excited about a small EV truck ( Slate ) when there are probably 100’s of small EV trucks sold from dozens of different companies in China now that are dirt cheap and yet here we are, salivating on ONE truck from a barely existent startup because the only trucks being offered from the established automakers are either HUGE or cost a small fortune. And on top of that- most aren’t even very good. Even the new Tacoma is having major probems and good luck getting one of those for under $50k.
The world of automakers needs a major shakeup and this should be their message to get off their asses.
There’s a couple of EV trucks in China, but a lot of EV and PHEV SUVs. Trucks don’t sell well, necessarily, there, because size limits actually prevent some of them from being registered in the cities. To be honest, I’d like to think that if Chinese OEMs though they could sell cars here prior to the previous administration imposing a 100% tax, they would.
You’re buying right into the conservative bullshit nonsense of withholding cheap goods from people who need them because of some claimed security risk. It’s an effort to keep people poor and force them to buy the overpriced garbage forced on them by corporations that directly benefit the people in power.
Chinese cars have been on the market in Europe for years now and they have yet to be taken over by the evil Commies, so I think we’d be fine.
Lol, yes that is 100% my motivation.
The poor of this country would be so much better off if the CCP could sell them more rather than our “evil” corporations. No concerns with the “people in power” in China at all!
We’ve got our own problems dealing with our own evil bastards in the current admin, complete with our very own Jospeh Goebbels Wannabe, Stephen Miller.
You can buy a Slate or a Gen 2 Bolt!! Awesome, where?
I trust even people making comments like this will be able to figure it out eventually.
China is not my enemy, and the US government definitely wishes me ill. There are more options in the world than heroes and villains
I love the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. Such a great band, although I feel like I didn’t fully appreciate them until a little after their prime. This is one of my favorite songs of theirs. I never skip it when it pops up in my assorted playlists.
Karen O has some pretty good solo work too
Check out “Lux Prima”, the album Karen O did with Danger Mouse several years ago. It’s damn good.
Have the American brands ever thought about designing and building nice cars that people want to buy for a reasonable price?
No, that would make line go DOWN. Think of the SHAREHOLDERS! You’ll get $80,000 6,000 pound trucks on 120 month loans and you’ll like it, mister!
I do, actually
“Yeah, my pickup mortgage is as long as my home mortgage, but at least I kept my monthly payment under $1k!”
Heh, $80k is child’s play in 2025. We’re into six figures now for a spec’d out 3/4 ton.
Oh they thought about it, but those people who thought those thoughts have now been sacked.
Translation: Wi nøt trei a høliday in Sweden this yër ?
You’ve inspired me – henceforth, I shall refer to any tariff price increases as nasty moose bites.
We’ve been through this. The DEALERS buy the cars to sell to the consumers. DEALERS are the American brands customers.
If you want the American brands to build nice cars that consumers want to buy for a reasonable price, then talk to the DEALERS.
The problem is not the maker, it’s the dealers (a.k.a. middle men)
this is why people have tolerated Tesla’s poor build quality and Elon’s childish antics for so long: no dealers!
the dealers lose their ability to order new cars if they don’t hit their quota of CUV sales each month
Yup. Then they realized that the vast majority of their customers don’t buy on price, they buy on monthly payment. You can buy a lot of car at a “reasonable” monthly payment when you take out a 108-month (or longer) loan. Until that behavior stops, either by people realizing how dumb that is, or by banks refusing to hand out those loans like candy, it ain’t gonna happen.
Nissan and Mitsubishi wouldn’t exist without long term car loans
Predatory financing is quite literally the only reason Nissan still exists
Mitsubishi has already almost put itself out of business in the US because of their desperate consumer financing moves.
The monthly payment schtick is one of the best cons of modern times and wouldn’t work if we valued even basic financial literacy in this country.
Customer: Ugh I can’t afford this $90,000 truck that I totally NEED!
Dealership: LOOK! It’s only $999 a month! You TOTALLY CAN! Just sign here!
Customer: WOW OKAY! My wife is pregnant with our first kid and we totally need something way, way bigger and body on frame for her too while you’re at it.
Dealership: HOW CONVENIENT! We have an Expedition Big Texas Balls Edition with all the bells and whistles.
Customer: But it’s $110,000! We make $90,000 a year as a household
Dealership: OOOOO ahhhhhh OOOOOOO hmmmm let me talk to my manager….
….guess what buddy? It’s ALSO $999 a month but because we like you we will roll them into one $1,950 monthly payment!
Customer: WOW SHE’S GOING TO BE SO HAPPY I GOT HER A CAR TOO
6 months later: the man is getting yelled at by Caleb Hammer
This x1000
Even without China, Detroit never took small cars seriously. American car companies see cheap small cars as an afterthought, while others see them as a core part of their lineup.
You can also blame avergae consumers for trying to maximize their dollar when buying a car once every 5-7 years so they completely ignore sub compact cars because they might want to take a road trip with 5 people once a year
When the dealer has a lot full of CUVs for minimally more than the one compact in a bad color they have available, it’s not entirely the consumers’ fault.
they could order what they really want instead of trying to haggle below MSRP on what is available that day
but most people find themselves in a situation of need, not want.
Dealers are a lot more willing to offer a deal on a vehicle in inventory. If you need a vehicle, the delay and likely higher cost of ordering may not be an option.
This is one of the reasons why Hyundai/Kia are succeeding in the American market. They take their affordable small and medium sized cars seriously and people buy them because they’re comparatively cheap without being personality-less penalty boxes. If you interact with something like a Kona or K4 or whatever then cross the street to go check out the American equivalent there’s just no comparison whatsoever.
For the low to mid 30s you could get a reasonably spec’d Sportage or Santa Fe or a lower spec Equinox, Hornet, etc. It’s not a hard choice unless you’re one of those people that refused to buy anything that isn’t American. The Japanese options are superior as well but the prices reflect it in a big way these days.
There’s definitely a level of thoughtfulness baked into Hyundai/Kia products that you don’t see in the domestics.
Sorry but I am not touching any KIa or Hyundai products until they start treating their customers better. My current and former boss both own Hyundai Santa Fe’s and BOTH practically drink oil and have to be topped off at every gas station visit. Both have been on the phone and via many, many emails to get them fixed, which both should since they have an engine that has been recalled for destroying its bearings and then starts using a shit ton of oil. So far Hyundai refuses to fix their cars. So they are stuck with vehicles that will self-destruct unless they add quarts of oil every 300-400 miles. That’s beyond ridiculous.
I’m not asking you to. I’m not buying another after the one I currently own. I’m discussing why their market share is growing exponentially in the US…and even with their known issues it’s not like the domestic manufacturers are doing any better right now. Hell they’re even fucking up the shit they’re supposedly good at (looking at you and your L87 engines, GM….)
Every few years when there’s a crisis they discuss it briefly. Hell, how much mileage did GM get out of talking about maybe making the Volt some day in the future? They even got themselves a government bailout on the strength of their bs.
(Yes, the Volt did happen eventually. It did not happen as promised anywhere near the timeline promised and definitely not at the price promised. GM is not alone in any of that, but it would be nice if anyone subjected corporate press releases to even the smallest bit of scrutiny.)