Everyone knows that there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and accounting. A surging Hyundai is picking up market share from stalwarts like Volkswagen, and the CEO is now out here saying they’re #2. Normally, that wouldn’t be a brag, but for Hyundai to climb up in just 35 years from a hopeful exporter to the second slot would be a huge deal.
Is he right? Yes and no, but the “yes” here is the most important part. The Morning Dump is committed to fact-checking accounting-based brags, as always. The way that Hyundai did this is no surprise: a non-ideological approach to powertrain options. That seems like a model that could be copied, and Mercedes seems open to the approach after over-indexing on EVs.
What about Ferrari? They’re doing the same, but only for a limited customer base. Citroën also has a similar gameplan, albeit for a lot more people.
‘We Are Number Two, ‘ Says Muñoz
You know an automaker is feeling itself when it shows the world an expensive, niche wagon. That’s what happened at an event in France that we were not invited to, and, because of the existence of a wagon, I will maybe never forgive the very nice people at the Genesis press office (until they let me drive it, and then all will be magically forgotten).
Hyundai Motor Company has three brands: Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis, and the only argument is which one is ultimately the best and most successful. It’s probably Hyundai, followed by Kia, followed by Genesis. I would invert it, if only because I think Genesis is the most interesting and Kia has the most attractive cars, but this distracts from the point that all three are ultimately the same company.
At this event, big boss Jose Muñoz claimed that the company was suddenly the number two automaker after Toyota and, for the first time, ahead of Volkswagen Group. Is that true? Here’s what he said, exactly, according to CarExpert:
Speaking to media, Mr Muñoz didn’t mince words about the shifting hierarchy of the automotive world.
“We have become, already, several years in a row, the number three global OEM [by sales]. And in fact, when you consider profits, we are number two,” Mr Muñoz said.
“So we just overtook Volkswagen very recently.”
ORLY? Ok, let’s interrogate this.
Volkswagen sold 6.6 million vehicles across its many brands through the first nine months of the year. Over the same period, Hyundai says it sold about 3.1 million cars. So, by volume, it’s not even half the size.
What about by revenue? Volkswagen has made about $276 billion so far this year, compared to just $95 billion for Hyundai. The difference, as Mr. Muńoz points out, is profits. Volkswagen reported it made about $6.2 billion so far this year on a slim operating margin. Hyundai, though, did about $6.6 billion on a much healthier profit margin.
It’s all about how you look at it, but the fact that Volkswagen can’t make much money off of all of those sales is not great and doesn’t speak to stability or growth. In this same speech, Muñoz credited many things, including its investments in flying cars and robots. I like t=this explanation from Cox Automotive’s Erin Keating a bit better:
While some automakers push hard for full electrification as others pull back, Hyundai is taking a more flexible approach. The company plans to launch 18+ hybrid models by 2030, running parallel to its aggressive electric vehicle (EV) investments through the IONIQ brand.
With EV adoption plateauing and federal incentives expired, families are looking for electrification benefits without having to embrace the complexities of owning full EVs. The Palisade Hybrid delivers exactly that: 329 horsepower, up to 35 MPG, and a 630+ mile driving range. That extra $2,220 isn’t just about fuel savings; it’s about a better drive. The Hybrid delivers a smoother, more responsive experience, and over time, fuel savings will cover the premium.
Hyundai’s approach mirrors Toyota’s long-successful playbook to offer quality products across multiple powertrains, let customers decide what works for their lives, and avoid betting the entire company on a single technology pathway. It’s pragmatic, unsexy and increasingly vindicated by market reality. While every brand is saying it, Hyundai is following through.
I wonder what other companies could learn from that lesson?
Mercedes Has To Figure It Out
The big bet that Mercedes made on EVs isn’t exactly panning out, so the company is going with a more powertrain-agnostic strategy that includes EVs, hybrids, and gasonline-powered cars. It’ll also focus on cars people can actually afford, and not just the crazy expensive stuff.
That’s important, as an anonymous dealer pointed out to Automotive News:
Mercedes-Benz led in U.S. luxury sales from 2016 through 2018. Today, it’s stuck in third place while BMW and Lexus have pulled away.
A focus on top-end luxury with AMG and Maybach cost Mercedes share in the more affordable, higher volume portion of the luxury segment.
“Mercedes allowed BMW and Lexus to jump into the lower end of the market,” the dealer said. “It’s hurt sales volume and lease penetration.”
And then, of course, there’s Genesis.
Ferrari Doesn’t Want You To Want Too Many Of Its Cars
Here’s a fun quote from Ferrari CEO Benedetto Vigna to Manager Magazin:
When can we expect the second electric Ferrari?
We have nothing to say about that.
Oh wait, not that:
They aim to generate around 9 billion euros in revenue by 2030. This won’t be possible without an increase in sales.
We want to grow in the right way. We don’t just sell cars; we build relationships with our customers. With an emotional product like Ferrari, this relationship is very personal. Our customers need time to get to know the brand. We steer clear of customers who say, “I want to buy five Ferraris at once.”
I’ve talked about this before, but it is amazing that Ferrari can trade on exclusivity like this when so many other automakers fail trying to do so.
Citroën’s Powertrain Flexibility Is Working
If there’s a Stellantis brand that’s quietly been kicking le cul this year, it’s the company’s affordable French brand.
The manufacturer will as of next year produce an additional 40,000 C3s annually in Kragujevac, Serbia, bringing output of the urban vehicle and its C3 Aircross SUV sister version to 300,000, said the brand’s Chief Executive Officer Xavier Chardon. So far, the vehicles were only assembled at scale in the group’s Trnava plant in Slovakia.
The Trnava site also assembles the Opel Frontera and “is completely saturated,” which limited C3 production, Chardon said in an interview in Paris. “We are taking in more orders than what we can produce.”
While the car is available with multiple powertrains, the key here seems to be affordability.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
If Die Hard is a Christmas movie, then The Last Waltz is a Thanksgiving movie. Here’s The Band doing “The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down.”
The Big Question
What’s the best Hyundai/Genesis/Kia product ever, and why is it the Kia Pride?
Top photo: VW/Hyundai
“What’s the best Hyundai/Genesis/Kia product ever”
In my opinion and for my purposes, it’s currently the Hyundai Ioniq 5/Kia EV6
Came to say this.
HKG resembles Chrysler in the 1990’s: attractive, cutting edge designs, higher profit margins, below average long term reliability. If HKG would trade some of their higher profit margin for higher quality material and processes (engines!), then in time they will truly be number two in revenue and units sold, as well as net profit. Until then, the ghosts of shit engines past will continue to haunt them in the present.
Very well said. It is curious how this attainable wisdom is rarely applied by many manufacturers.
You might be joking, but I was around 12-14 years old, when Kia started to sell the Pride here, and as I remember, I liked it. Other Kias had a similar starting price to the cheaper european cars, while the Pride was in the same league as the Suzuki Swift, or the smaller Daewoos. And it was also available as a wagon. And we all know a wagon is a lot better then a sedan (the Swift and the Lanos were available as a hatchback or a sedan, but they made no wagon out of those).
The thing I can not understand: how on Earth can VW spend 50-60% more on R&D than any other car manufacturer? (About 3-4 times more, than H/K.)
As you spend more time here, you might discover that I am not joking.
OK, that just makes things better.
I am a member of a Ford Festiva FB page.
“how on Earth can VW spend 50-60% more on R&D than any other car manufacturer?”
By doing it all in house and then having to pivot and outsource to partners like Rivian when management’s egos have wasted a fortune?
My problem is that what they spend on that is still less than the difference between VW’s and other manufacturers R&D expenses.
https://rhomotion.com/news/how-much-money-do-automakers-invest-in-rd/
Oh, I’ve forgot: but the Kia and Hyundai models that changed how reviewers talked about them were the 1st gen Ceed and the i30 around here. So those were maybe the most important models for them.
Edit: another important H/K model: the Kia Picanto might be one of the last 3 really small cars, that can be used as a real car (a car that’s OK for a longer trip at highway speeds too, if one has to do that) sold in Europe (the other 2 are the Pand(in)a and the 500 hybrid).
Mercedes has just… lost the plot.
The BEV initiatives? I get it. You are incentivized by all these governments and regulatory bodies, and the German in you wants nothing more than to be piece of paper ground up by the gears of the bureaucratic machine. It’s the German way!
Customers cared less… but many manufacturers got bit by this.
Yet the rest of the product. The giant, “that’s no moon” badges. The interiors that have become increasingly gauche over the past decade or so. The busy exterior styling. PLUS Mercedes had an era where they put 6.2L V8 into everything, there was the SLS, the under-appreciated first AMG GT… but past seven years? Oof.
Mercedes-Benz needs to get its groove back. On nearly all fronts. I think the E-Class and GLE probably are the most rational, traditional Mercedes-Benz we all know and love, but they’re chasing too many distractions that are going nowhere.
Agreed. They need to trim their product portfolio down and do a few things really well. The problem is the German unions will crucify them if they don’t keep lots of people busy. Sales or no sales.
honestly the only Product from these guys that I really wanted was the Stinger/G70. we have a G70 with the 3.3 and AWD and it is a really decent ride. I will say though, the perceived benefit of a large Kia/Hyundai dealer network for warranty and or service options is not the reality. I was pretty frustrated by that when a wheel nearly fell off with very few miles on the clock in the middle of Iowa in December. but they made it right, flat towed 200 miles to another location set us up with a car “rental” and had the vehicle shipped back. These were all things I expected from a luxury startup trying to prove themselves, but the typical service reputation of this company as a whole made us a bit worried at first.
Now as to why the PDI and service techs did not catch this when we took the guys around the block to hear the minor bumping sound when turning left. sounded like a half shaft/cv going out slightly, but had they actually removed the wheel to check it out, they would have fixed the loose lugs that they should have already torqued properly.
I should have realized it as well, but as new as it was and the fact that they should have fixed it by accident certainly gave me pause as to how effective their techs might be.
I very much hope you meant “flat bed” and not “flat towed”, because otherwise, yikes.
Flat Bed, Towed, yes. The AWD system is touchy enough.
“Tow”
verb
past tense: towed; past participle: towed
Do you mean the flat bed hauled it?
Best H/K/G product? Kona N. Powertrain from the Elantra N, but in a lighter chassis with shorter wheelbase. Faster around a track? Nope, but an absolute hoot to drive. And I average 30 MPG. (Don’t look at me like that, Nsane in the Membrane.)
The best H/K/G product ever? Well, I love the Genesis G90 and if I were in that market it would be my choice. It’s stunning. But honestly, it would have to be the first-generation Soul. It’s a car that brought Kia into popular culture in a way that they hadn’t been before. It was the best kind of “halo car”, a cheap, funky, practical vehicle that was an ambassador for the brand and heralded their ascent in the 2010s and 2020s.
“we are number two”
Well that’s one way to admit your cars and dealerships are s#it…
But they’re number one at using the turbo to pressurize the gas tank, so that’s something.
When I was younger, the Gen2 Tiburon were pretty good looking coupes. I knew a few managers who bought them as a single occupant commuter. Why not commute in style?
I mean, I’ll give you the Elan/Vigato, but that’s about it.
Best H/K product ever? This was answered the other day with the reveal of the next-gen: the Telluride. It put them on the map with upper-middle class buyers who are the people you want to target if you’re a purveyor of mass-market new cars.
Also, I agree 100% The Last Waltz is a Thanksgiving movie and although I’ve watched/listened to it hundreds of times in my life it is still so so good. Especially “The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down”. Levon at the peak of his powers, combined with the horns…just a sonic buffet to go with the actual buffet of food over this week.
“What’s the best Hyundai/Genesis/Kia product ever, and why is it the Kia Pride?”
Kia Pride was an amazing car. Americans knew it as the Ford Festiva, and it was truly one of the best cars in its class in the era. There are still plenty of enthusiasts today.
But we’re talking about the Hyundai Group here. When the Pride/Festiva was built, Kia was an independent manufacturer, and not part of the Hyundai Group, so I’m not sure it is a legitimate answer to this question.
No doubt that Hyundia/Kia/Genesis make some interesting and appealing products, though lately I’ve grown concerned about the shockingly high expenses involved in getting them serviced/repaired, as I’ve posted about elsewhere.
I want a base Ionic 5, or at least I did until I started reading stories about how difficult Hyundai makes what ought to be routine/DIY servicing, and how expensive the parts and dealer costs are when it comes to repairs. So, now I’m actually off the Ionic 5 a bit, and since they haven’t brought the Inster/Casper to the states (and are unlikely to do so IMO, despite a couple being spotted testing in SoCal) there’s nothing they make/sell here that really makes me desirous at the moment.
Instead of any new car, a sensible, thrify person would just buy that ’90s Camry wagon in Portland with 168Kmiles on it for $1,850. https://www.theautopian.com/how-would-you-spend-two-grand-1996-toyota-camry-vs-2004-honda-accord/ Then, they could put the rest of their money away safely, so they’re able to comfortably ride out our coming crash/recession (per various pundits, etc…).
I like that Camry wagon. 🙂
Got $2k? yeah?
Then go get ’em tiger!
Don’t think I didn’t consider it. 😉 But with three cars and a motorcycle already, and I work at home when I work at all lately, it just seems crazy to buy something else. TBH, if this were nearby, I’d probably just buy it and figure out things later. I really do like that gen of Camry, especially the wagon and coupe. My mom had a 4 cylinder sedan and I cannot tell you how much abuse that car received and it just kept on running with minimal bills.
I have 14 bicycles. What is this “restraint” thing?
Well, I’ve got two of those and I don’t even ride anymore (torn meniscus a half-dozen times in the same knee). My lack of self-control may not be S-tier, but it’s already more than I can deal with. 😉
Hyundai is basically Chrysler to me: great looking vehicles I’ll never buy.
The Ioniq 5N is pretty much made for me, but I just couldn’t consider it. The reality of their dealership experience keeps me away, and with the 5N, I basically needed to be royalty for them to talk to me about it.. They really need to work on this… especially since it seems like they’re having a hard time finding buyers now.
The dealership experience can be good. I bought a Hyundai in December 2022, and was expecting the worst because Hyundai. And it was great. Personable salesman who was not pressuring me at all. Even the F&I guy was great and let me know of a 0% finance deal that I was unaware of.
Post-sale has been terrific as well. Service folks know me and treat me like a human. I haven’t even bribed them with donuts yet! We like this dealer so much, we actually have my wife’s Kia serviced there as well instead of the Kia store. I understand that my good experience is hardly universal, but ours has been good.
I always look forward to Hyundai/Kia at the rental counter. Well designed, ergonomic and punch above their weight. As for actually owning one long term… the jury is out. I have known people that swear by them, and others who have been burned bad.
This is not reserved for HKG. All stealerships are tough to deal with if the salesguys are shady. And all are hurting to make sales right now it seems like.
I would consider an Ionic5 at 3/4 scale, but it’s just too big for me.
My vote is for the Kia Bongo, just cause I love the name.
It’s so weird to see what is essentially the cluster/steering wheel/shifter of a mid 2000s Accent, in a commercial truck. At least in the models that are legal for import to Canada.
The all new Ferrari Elettrica No. 2!
The way they handled the whole usb car theft incident means that I will not consider them. As a cyber security pro, it was disgusting.
Hyundai is just extremely lucky that the current news cycle moves as quickly as it does. 25 years ago that would’ve probably sunk them in the US.
I would argue 25 years ago nearly every used car on the street was about as equally stealable. There was nothing exceptional about the kia stealability, except for its widespread publication on a forum as modern as the theft problem itself. So this problem wouldn’t have existed in anything like the same manner 25 years ago.
I know, but my broader point is that a company shrugging its shoulders and acting like it couldn’t care less in response to a problem of that scale wouldn’t have been tolerated by the market 25 years ago.
This is the real thing… it’s how you follow up to a vulnerability in security that’s important. Everyone will have them, so being vulnerable isn’t really the problem. Being ignorant is.
The issue (aside from not having immobilizers) seemed to be that it became a meme. Like “you can use a usb cable to steal this car” was something that really caught the eye of a lot of people. The fact that you still had to rip out the lock mechanism and do all of the other things that you would have to do on any other car without an immobilizer was somewhat forgotten in all of the hype around it. You can steal pretty much any other car with the screwdriver you used to drive out the lock mechanism. Hell, older GM vehicles, you just use the screwdriver in the lock. But the shape of the hole left after busting out the mechanism in those cars being perfectly sized to a USB-A plug just grabbed the hearts and minds of a surprising number of bored young people in a way that was oddly viral. Aside from recalling every car and adding an immobilizer or updating them to keyless start (not very practical), I’m not sure what else you could do but shrug.
The fact that no automaker has yet to implement robust security into the CAN vehicle network tells you a lot of the industry as a whole.
That vehicle security in some brands is vastly different between regions & countries, despite it having a large impact in brand perception with prospective buyers, is also deeply disturbing.
The Soul gets my vote. And got my money as Mom’s (hopefully) last ride. All the car anyone really needs. So of course, they have now killed it.
I have never been much impressed with their upmarket options. They still have too much of a whiff of cut-rate copy to them, albeit far less so as the years go by. I can see the Stinger impressing a Camry driver, but not someone who has owned multiple BMWs.
Since when is KIA a “brand” of Hyundai? Did that change recently? Because my understanding is that they were separate companies doing joint engineering – like how VW and Porsche did things back before the failed acquisition\we acquire YOU instead internecine squabble nonsense. Mercedes (the writer, not the brand) should write one of her deep-dive articles on that bit of family fun!
Porsche buying VW, only for VW to have an Uno-reverse and buy Porsche.
But the last laugh being that Porsche SE owns them all (by voting shares).
There there is a vast rift in voting shares vs ownership is a whole ‘nother ball of wax.
Oh, I know the whole story. But many don’t, and it is fascinating and worth a writeup here. Add in the whole RR/Bentley fiasco for added spice.
See Ford Motor Company for an excellent example of what the different classes of share mean in terms of voting rights and control of a company (and also why Ford could NOT do bankruptcy as GM and Chrysler did).
I cannot, honestly, believe that VW didn’t know that the RR brand wasn’t part of the deal.
I can see VW wanting the factory, people, and the Bentley brand to build a sporting luxury brand above Audi (pre-Porsche).
That’s their story though. Epic failure of due diligence if it is true. That factory was a worthless antique by that point. Supposedly RR spent less building their new factory than VW did rehabilitating Crewe to build modern cars. They wildly overpaid for effectively just the Bentley brand.
BMW, on the other hand, got pretty much the deal of the century. Something like 1/10th as much for the most valuable piece of the whole thing.
The few articles that have I’ve read on the topic pointed to the success of Bentley both selling both more vehicles, and, now, at a higher average price than RR would imply that VW’s strategy was, in retrospect, better than BMW’s.
I’ll never know what was going through their heads at the time. And maybe BMW was still so deeply disturbed by what they experienced with Land Rover that they were thankful to do without a legacy factory & workforce.
In what universe is Bentley selling at a higher average price than RR? Their highest volume car is $100K cheaper than RR’s cheapest car. They certainly have chased volume though. Which to my mind is not a good look for what is supposed to be an exclusive car. VW has made a success of it – but so did BMW for a much, much lower initial investment.
But at the end of the day, I find both to be a bit tacky at this point. Much too in your face about how much the owner spent. Restrained good taste is evidently so last century.
Yes the Soul is a fantastic car. My kid has beaten the crap out of one for the last 10 years. It has survived being the Rugby team bus/sober cab through her high school and college and now adult league years.
Hyundai motor company is also a brand of Hyundai motor group. The corporate structure is complex, but the shares they do own get them enough votes for control.
Of course. “Hyundai” is like Mitsubishi – a giant conglomerate that makes everything under the sun.
I too was likewise quite smitten with the Soul.
Offbeat enough to be unique, affordably priced, and quite spacious despite its relatively diminutive footprint.
Unfortunately alas, ours was in an accident versus a pickup truck. Fortunately, no one was hurt, so I guess I could also be happy it protected my loved one.
Sorry to hear about your loss and glad no one was hurt. I would be really sad if anything happened to my Soul. It’s my 3rd one, I love the quirky little boxes! Hopefully you can get another one.
The first gen Genesis was pretty amazing for the time. They seem on track to become an iconic car. Its still up there for me along with the stinger, ionic 5, and ionic 6 along with anything on e-gmp is up there but really everything they have made from maybe 2010 forward has been quite decent and seem to get better. I don’t hate Kia soul it’s a true car of the people and drives fine not particularly anything but decent for what it is.
“The Last Waltz” is the greatest concert movie EVER. Levon Helm was the man.
This…
Bump
Bow Thayer is a musician I know, and he made a record with Levon Helm. Good story and good record. Bow loves The Band. https://countytracks.com/2017/03/levon-helm-bow-thayer/
“Non-ideological approach” … maybe just say they made competitive and attractive EV? It’s a little more neutral.
Ionic 5 with rear window wiper blade.
Must not make most obvious joke in “Morning Dump” comment section….
Sometimes you just have to take the plunge
Wow, there’s a lot if innuendo here.
Like poker, you have to hope for a straight flush.
Self-deprecation? or self-defecation?
They’ve come a long way since all their cars were turds.
I’m sure there’s plenty more we could pile on.
“Who does Number Two work for? Who does Number Two work for?”
“Hey, how ’bout a courtesy flush?!”
Affordable Mercedes? Jumbo Shrimp anyone?
The Hyundai Kia product I most want is: https://special.kia.com/en/km450 the KM450 that I can use as an overlander/camper.
Maybe if Mercedes focused on reliability, and could honestly claim that they were equal to peers such as Lexus, or Porsche.
Going out on a stretch budget to buy a car based on badge to keep up with the Jones’ gets old when it’s in the shop regularly.
Remember when Mercedes was a cornerstone of reliability? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
If Lexus were to start today, they would benchmark a 40 year old Mercedes, not a new one.
Reputationally, I think the Stinger is certainly up there in terms of bringing respect to the Kia (and G70 to Genesis) brands. It was a statement that they are willing to play seriously in a wider variety of sectors, and do it well.
Actual best product ever? Probably Telluride and Pallisade. They stomped the competition on first gen launch with the Telluride and have sold incredibly well the entire time. It’s a high water mark for styling, features and value in a really crowded segment, and it absolutely nailed what consumers were looking for.
And they ruin it on the 2nd generation. I like the idea of the hybrid, but the rest leaves me cold.
I don’t agree to honest with you. I can understand not loving it, but based on what is hot in the market right now, the updated Telluride and Palisade seem to be like the perfect follow up. The boxier and baby range rover looks are incredibly popular right now, and it looks like Hyundai/Kia have taken feedback from the 1st gens very seriously. Obviously time will tell to see how they sell, but I suspect they’ll be an extremely fast seller for at least the next 3 model years.
I look at it like the Bronco and Wrangler, there really isn’t anything there that I find all that compelling. In my opinion, what people really want is a 4Runner which is what I’d buy 100% of the time, but the Bronco and Wrangler sell well anyways despite high prices and poor reliability. I don’t necessarily love the new Telluride, but I think the general buying populous will love it, and the Hybrid will do crazy sales numbers.
Suspect some is generational, I’m late Gen-X. The 2026 design leaves me cold whereas the 2025 seems familiar and relatable. Get off my lawn.
I don’t like it either, and I really liked the original. It’s just too… much.
I don’t care for it, the new design screams “Great Value” Range Rover. However, among the mom group my wife is friends with a few of them want the new one, and the husbands were asking me opinions. With my history working with H/K dealers you couldn’t pay me to buy one.