Winter is hard on cars. Not only does road salt take its toll on every part made of steel, but cold starts, especially if you have to park outdoors, can be brutal. And then there’s the increased risk of piling up your beloved ride on a slippery road. It’s enough to make some people park their “good” cars for the winter, and buy some cheap piece of crap to take one for the team. If that sounds like a good idea to you, you’re in luck, because cheap pieces of crap are our specialty here.
Yesterday, I attempted the impossible: Finding a worthwhile classic project car in Michigan, in January. Neither one is a good idea, but you were all good sports about it. The results actually surprised me; I didn’t think that little Comet had enough charisma to pull off a win. Or was it just the ick factor of an old hearse that gave it the win by default?
If I were still in college, and still in my “trying to start a band” phase, I’d be all over that hearse. Those rollers in the back would have been just the thing for loading and unloading my gigantic Ampeg amp that nobody would ever help me carry. But these days, I think I’d rather have the Comet, if these are my only choices. It’s been a while since I messed with an old straight six.
For today’s choices, I stayed in Michigan and stayed cheap, but searched for manual transmissions only, in an attempt to keep things interesting. Unsurprisingly, there were few options. But these two stood out to me as good potential sacrificial winter cars. Let’s take a look.
2008 Subaru Impreza – $1,700
Engine/drivetrain: 2.5-liter OHC flat 4, five-speed manual, AWD
Location: Oak Park, MI
Odometer reading: 158,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
It’s funny how some cars can become known for just one thing, but sometimes it’s a different thing in different circles. Ask a member of the general non-gearhead public about Subaru, and they’ll probably mention one trait: “They’re good in snow.” Ask a gearhead, and they’ll probably mention leaking head gaskets. Both assessments are true, which makes this base-model Impreza a qualified good deal as a winter beater.
Powering this Impreza is Subaru’s famous – or infamous, depending who you ask – EJ25 flat-four engine, which drives all four wheels through a five-speed manual gearbox. It has 158,000 miles on it, and the seller says it runs and drives well, but it does leak some oil, which may or may not be the old head gasket issue rearing its ugly, um, head. I think this is after the “bad years,” but I can’t find a consensus on which years those were. At any rate, the seller is throwing in some goodies to help keep it on the road, including ramps, jack stands, a battery charger, and enough oil and filters to take care of the next couple of changes. Including all this stuff with the car makes me wonder if the seller is going car-free. But it’s a nice bonus if you don’t have any of that stuff.
It looks good inside, and because it’s a hatchback, there’s a lot of room for stuff if you fold the seats down. Even though it’s a base model, it does have power windows and locks, as well as air conditioning, and it all works. Not bad for a $1,700 car.
It does have a little rust, but that’s to be expected. It also looks like it has a scrape on the left front fender and door, but it might just be dirt. All the glass is intact, and all the lights work, and at this price, sometimes that’s all you can ask for.
2008 Pontiac G5 GT – $2,300
Engine/drivetrain: 2.2-liter DOHC inline 4, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: Portage, MI
Odometer reading: 123,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
Back in 1982, when General Motors introduced its J small-car platform, every division got a version of it. But after 1988, only Chevy and Pontiac remained. In 2005, when the J-car was retired in favor of the new Delta platform, both brands also offered a version. But while Chevy Cobalts are everywhere, you rarely see the Pontiac version, known as the G5. Or maybe you do, and just don’t notice it, because apart from the grille, they’re exactly the same car.
This is the GT model of the G5, which as far as I can tell only means it has a spoiler and alloy wheels, no extra power or anything. It’s powered by a 2.2 liter Ecotec four-cylinder, along with a five-speed manual. It has new tires and a new battery, but that’s about all the information we get about its mechanical condition. But they do call it “reliable,” which is something.
It looks OK inside, but the fabric is a bit worn and shiny. This wasn’t a great era for GM interiors, but has there ever really been a good one? It’s intact, and hopefully most of it works. For a car this cheap, that’s about as good as you can expect.
The winters have not been kind to this car either; the rocker panels are toast. But I have heard that these can get impressively rusty before it starts to affect the structure, so it’s probably fine. The G5 only came as a two-door; if you wanted back doors, you had to go to a Chevy dealership.
I miss the days of $500 winter beaters, but I don’t think they’re coming back. Two grand or thereabouts is the best you’re going to do, unless you stumble onto a special deal. But it’s not like you’re shopping for a long-term car; if one of these gets you through until spring, and spares your nice car from the horrors of road salt, it’s money well spent. Which one would you choose?
Impreza.
As for why it burns oil? Could be the head gasket, but could also be the valve cover gasket too. Either way, for $1,700 it’s worth the gamble.
As for the Pontiac? Honestly? That’s not a bad deal… but I’ve only ever had shit luck with GM’s. The electronics in this era of GM’s were known for being buggy and fragile so it wouldn’t surprise me to see the dash light up like a christmas tree a few hundred miles after purchase.
For me, Subaru. For you, Mark, since your recent relocation probably puts you in the hot seat for in-person press visits to automaker HQ, Pontiac so you can park it in the good “domestic brand/UAW-made only” parking lots.
I’m currently dailying a remarkably similar Subaru, a 2009 5spd Impreza hatch with about 100k on the clock. Mine is silver, though, and doesn’t have the creased fender or the rust. If that’s the going price for those cars, I’m going to hang onto this thing until the wheels fall off or the engine grenades
I think Subaru pricing heavily depends on where you live, in my neck of the woods folks’d be asking $4K+ for that thing and not even think they were stretching.
Colorado? $4K was the asking price for a tired Subaru with little to no rust back when my dad lived there
Seattle-I imagine Subaru prices are similarly ridiculous in WA or CO
Just got back from my first visit to the States (only Utah and Colorado) saw more Subies than “Trucks” including our rental and after a couple of trips over the Rockies on the I-70 freeway I understood.
It’s probably the last stick shift I’ll ever own, too, so all the more reason to hang onto it for a long, long time. I’m gonna miss the bolt action when it’s gone.
Yeh I’m driving a 2005 Legacy GT wagon these days (same trans as your Impreza I think) and this gen Subaru shifter is/was underrated imo. Like it’s not the fastest but it has a pleasantly mechanical feel to it that makes something newer like a GTi shifter feel like a video game controller.
Honestly, the GM car is probably more reliable, but I owned (and constantly was working on) a 2006 Legacy Outback 5 speed a few years ago. It was a great car when something wasn’t wrong with it.
So, I still voted for the Subaru because I miss driving it. My oldest will be turning 16 in a month, and a car like that at a price like that is something I’ve been looking for for quite a while!
That’s a steal for the Impreza if everything else is in order, which it seems to be. I owned my ’02 bugeye WRX twice, and even with the issues I still enjoyed it. This would make a solid winter beater, esp with the manual. Even new gaskets would still be worth it.
Also, standard answer, rallycross!
I do like the simplicity and cheapness of keeping a cheap old GM vehicle running, but that one has too little left in the structure for me to put it on the road. I also know for a fact, because I considered buying a 2-door Cobalt manual brand new (it was stupid cheap), that 2nd gear puts the shifter jammed against my hip.
With those factors in mind, I begrudgingly choose the Subaru … and a case of K-Seal.
Only a GM economy car could make a base model impreza seem fun and well made, I test drove a cobalt back when these were newish and it had the driving dynamics of a buick but none of the luxury. Plus look at that shift knob in the Pontiac, it’s seen some sh*t.
“it’s seen some sh*t.”
Possibly literally.
oof hope not
It looks aftermarket, which makes sense as the factory ones I’ve seen where all done before age 10. An ex-co worker owned one, the car was 8 yrs old yet the shift knob had all numbers rubbed off. Some exemplary GM quality right there
ahh GM smh
I’ve never understood the ‘winter beater’ concept in this vein.
Winter is the time I least want to work on a car or have it break down on me. So, I want a decent reliable car that will start and drive all winter, but I am indifferent to the aesthetics of.
So, methinks a 4-7 year old decent transportation pod is the ticket, not the sixteen year old vehicles that are likely to leave me stranded.
Anyway, the Subaru looks to be the ticket if I have to choose, but at that price, the clutch worries me.
I think salt on the roads is the reason you don’t want to use a nice car over Winter.
In my experience, it is impossible to get even remotely comfortable in a Cobalt. The seats are garbage, and… well most of the car is garbage.
I’ll take my chances on the Impreza, and at least enjoy whatever short time I would have with it.
Both of these are perfectly cromulent choices for the money. I went with the Subaru because it is all wheel drive and a wagon. The G5 is fine, but winter beaters are about practicality and AWD/wagon is far more practical than FWD/coupe.
Ooh, the Impreza is tempting enough to have my kid hop in the car and go buy it. Going to resist though, we’re currently overstocked and need to offload some inventory ourselves!
The little Pontiac is a perfectly cromulent car. So I picked the Subaru.
Cause it’s better in every measurable way, AND it’s significantly cheaper.
Throw Blizzaks on the Subie and drive. Scrapes, potholes, door dings, dent from someone sliding into you – doesn’t matter. Winter beater. Back in the day in MN I knew a guy who would buy a new winter beater every year, just atrocious cars and throw Blizzaks on them. He always drove when we went out because he didn’t care what happened to the car, as long as it ran through the winter.
There are better options for the cost than Blizzaks. They’re the iPhone of winter tires.
We run Nokian Hakkepelittas on my wife’s car, and I tossed CrossClimate 2s on my Sorento.
The CrossClimates have no right to be as good as they are. But here I am, in my 3rd winter on them, and they still rival the dedicated Toyo Observe GSi-6 winters I had on my truck.
Firestone Winterforce are my go-to for snow shoes.
Have no idea if those were available then, but this was early 90’s MN. I tried to buy CrossClimates for my wife’s car when I needed tires but couldn’t get them in the right size. Needed tires immediately, so couldn’t wait. Next time.
I have CrossClimate2s on both of our cars. They’re excellent, and no more swapping tires, which is a PITA both for cost and storage reasons.
This is for a van and a Forester though. If one of these cars actually had the potential to be fun to drive, I wouldn’t go with the CrossClimates. But for run of the mill people schleppers? They’re great.
That’s exactly why I bought them. My all seasons were toast, and I hadn’t bought winter tires for it yet. So I decided to give them a go and save the investment in a vehicle I loathe entirely.
10/10 great decision.
My Genesis Coupe, which I still regard as my favourite winter car out of anything I’ve ever owned, rolled on Hankook iPikes for 8 winters.
I had to replace the rear tires every 2nd winter though, as I love steering with the throttle.
Agreed we put CrossClimate2s on our Niro after getting stuck using the shitty nexxins we had. Great tires! however we did see a dip in fuel economy, about 2mpgs
Yeah, the Nokians are gold but I hate switching out. We have the CC2’s on 2 of our cars and they are amazing. Have not failed to pull me out of a parking lot. We only have our winter from late November through April so not switching tires is nice.
My dad ran Sumitomo Ice Edge winter tires when he lived up north. They did great and he never got stuck despite driving a FWD car. The price was also 60% of what a Blizzak would have been.
At least I can fix the head gaskets.Those Cobalts and G5’s all rot and won’t pass inspection where I live.
Just for the not ripping holes in my pants factor the Impreza wins.
I have so many winter beaters that one of them is off the road for the winter. That said I picked the Subi because I’ve never owned one.
Wait, I thought winter was that period from late November to mid February when you swap the summer tires for all-seasons. People really buy a whole other car for that?
Sarcasm aside, I’ll take the AWD manual hatch even if it has a Subaru engine.
Huh?!? You change tires for seasons?!?
I drove a Cobalt. A new one at that. It was surprisingly sprightly, faster than my 92 Firebird Formula (305/TPI) I owned concurrently. But definitely not a car I wish to own again. At this price point and region of the country the Subie is the better buy, even if you have to get the head gaskets done. The money saved between the two is a bonus.
Shoutout to a fellow former 3rd gen owner, perhaps the least impressive enthusiast car I’ve owned lol. Were you driving a Cobalt SS? I had a ’88 Trans Am w/ the TPI 350 (your ’92 TPI 305 was rated almost as much HP IIRC) and while it definitely underperformed relative to its looks and the base Cobalt was pleasantly peppy I don’t recall thinking it was faster than my Firebird when I test drove one (years ago)
I had the base model, LS I think, with the 5 speed. It was peppy and seat of the pants felt like it had more off the line than the Firebird. My Firebird appeared to have the WS6 package, but otherwise it was a pretty basic model. It had the drum rear brakes and what seemed like a pretty tall rear gear ratio.
Google tells me the Cobalt should have been 0-60 in the mid 7s, a 305TPI with auto Firebird would have been high 6s. What at that point was a 15 year old car in Maine with questionable history versus a factory fresh Cobalt, it may have been a fairly even match.
I still miss the Firebird WAY more than the Cobalt though, I traded it for a squarebody I thought I’d make better use of but really ended up being a money pit and gone in a few years. That Firebird was at least clean and straight, not an ounce of rust (in Maine!)! Would have been a good platform to build a fun cruiser with. I still have my eyes open for a clean third-gen, ideally a late 80s IROC with a stick.
Nice, sadly mine was an auto (as all the 5.7 cars were) and that’s a faster 0-60 than I expected for the cobalt so yeh that’s actually kinda sadly close. Not sure about the sticks, but a buddy had a ’89 Firebird w the TBI 305 and an auto and I think it had like 2.93 gears or something like that. Of course, I sold mine because I drove an e30 325i and realized that it was almost as fast in a straight line and way more fun to flog in the corners. Still I like seeing them around so few of them these days a really clean stick shift IROC would be a fun cruiser.
They’ve become a combination of Radwood and nostalgia fodder, so nice, clean ones have become unobtainium unless you get lucky and find an uneducated seller. There are some local decent drivers though, if I wasn’t getting ready to move I’d be trying to find more room in the driveway. That driveway issue is half the reason for the move though, so hopefully that changes soon!
Is it just me, or is that Subie suspiciously cheap?
Assuming it’s real, I voted for it.
It’s so cheap that here in Maryland the government fees to put it on the road would cost as much as the car itself.
For a winter beater I’ll take my chances on the headgaskets and go with AWD. Living in snowy New England (well, at least it used be, climate change asside) and living at the bottom end of Hill Road, I have a certain appreciation for having power to all four contact patches.
Also, 90s/00s GM mono-grey interior plastic is singularly depressing.
For the $600 price differential, you could preemptively do the head gaskets yourself and be set.
My uncle had a manual Cobalt that he got to 300k miles before rusting into oblivion. For a winter beater, I am picking the G5 just because I trust a GM product to shrug punishment better than a Subaru product
Subie. It’s just a few badges away from a WRX, and yet another couple from a STi.
Spend a grand fixing up the sub and you still have a good car at a good price.
…the oil leakage issue on the Impreza is worrying, but considering the brief is to use these as anodes to prevent corrosion of vehicles we like, I’d rather have AWD, and leave the Cobalt’s more obscure cousin for sunnier days. Besides, a friend had a manual Cobalt and had all kinds of transmission issues. Impreza please.
“This wasn’t a great era for GM interiors, but has there ever really been a good one?”
YES, long before this one, generally the 1960s, GM interiors were at the top of the game.