Good morning! For your consideration today, I have a pair of European convertibles with sort of a ketchup-and-mustard thing going with the colors. They’re both manual transmissions, and they’re both residents of the San Francisco Bay Area. Which one represents more fun in the sun? That will be up to you.
Yesterday’s “competition” was anything but, and I kind of knew that going in. The Mitsubishi Lancer was simply outclassed here; it’s a fine little car in general, but the “full of sound and fury signifying nothing” O-Z Rally package on it didn’t impress anyone, nor did its questionable modifications. The Mazda 6 may not be perfect as it sits, but it’s a whole lot classier and more substantial car.
It goes without saying that the Mazda would be my choice too. I really like the first-generation 6, especially the liftback. A manual is a must in these cars, and the V6 is just a nice bonus. The lowered suspension and loud exhaust would have to go, though.
All right, let’s look at a couple of cool and colorful European drop-tops.
2001 Saab 9-3 Viggen – $4,495
Engine/drivetrain: Turbocharged 2.3-liter DOHC inline 4, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: San Carlos, CA
Odometer reading: 233,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
Saab made some weird engine choices early on, but once it discovered turbocharging, it was game on. Starting in 1978 with the 99 Turbo, Saab built a bunch of special cars that sent way too much power to the front wheels. This was one of the last and best, the 9-3 Viggen, named after Saab’s most famous fighter jet. This is a rare car; only 4,600 were built in total. This is one of just 738 convertible Viggens imported to the US in 2001.
Power for the Viggen comes from a turbocharged 2.3-liter version of Saab’s long-running inline four, which was originally a Triumph design, of all things. It makes 230 horsepower, and drives the front wheels through a beefed-up five-speed manual. Torque steer is a problem, I’m told, but that’s true of any powerful FWD car, especially one with a peaky turbocharged engine. This one has been enjoyed a lot; it has 233,000 miles on the clock, but the seller says it has been well-maintained and it’s in good shape. It has new tires and brakes to control all that power, too.
The interior is where the miles show. The leather is worn and split, and there’s heavy wear on the door panels. But somehow, it comes across as cozy and lived-in, not beat-up. Saab interiors of this era are a cut above, and they seem to be able to age gracefully. But I’ll bet there are some dead pixels on the vehicle info display; there always are.
This color is called Laser Red, according to the seller, and apparently it’s rare. It has some scuffs and cracks in the front bumper, and the seller says there is some old repaired damage on one rear fender, but it’s a good ten-footer.
2007 Mini Cooper – $5,000
Engine/drivetrain: 1.6-liter DOHC inline 4, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: Daly City, CA
Odometer reading: 104,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
The original Mini, built from 1959 all the way up to 2000, was offered in a few different body styles, including a convertible, briefly, but they were rare. When new owner BMW brought out the new Mini in 2001, it was built only as a three-door hatchback. But in 2004, a convertible was back on the menu. In typical German fashion, the convertible outlasted the hardtop; the second-generation Mini was introduced for the 2007 model year, but the convertible wasn’t moved to the new platform until 2009. This, therefore, is still the first generation. Did you need to know all that backstory? Probably not, but you do now.
This is just a regular Mini Cooper, not an S, so it has a naturally aspirated 1.6-liter engine and a five-speed manual, instead of a supercharged engine and a six-speed. It is, however, the upgraded Getrag gearbox, not the old fragile Rover unit. It runs great, and it just had a bunch of cooling system work done. The clutch was replaced at 60,000 miles, too. The fact that someone killed a clutch in just 60,000 miles is worrisome, but it was the owner before the seller. Hopefully the last 40,000 miles have been gentler.
I’ve always liked the interior of these, even though the speedometer is in the middle of the dash. (That’s the tach right in front of the driver.) It’s fancier than your average small car inside, and it has some cool touches like a bank of toggle switches for various functions right below the HVAC controls. If you can play with nice clicky toggle switches, who the hell wants to poke at a touch screen? It’s in nice shape inside, with only a little wear here and there.
The outside is in good condition too, even the top. I like this orangey-yellow color too; it reminds me of my old MG. The big trouble with the Mini convertible is that it has blind spots the size of Nebraska with the top up. I guess that just means you have to drive around with the top down more often.
You either like convertibles or you don’t; I get that. But not all convertibles are created equal. Some are leisurely cruisers, and others, like these, are made for a bit more fun. These are both good driver’s cars even with hardtops, but with an open top, you get sunshine and fresh air with your twisty roads. Which would you rather have: the fire-breathing Swede, or the frisky half-German half-Brit?
Saab story! Well, this was so easy… I’m not into Mini Coopers or any Mini besides Mr. Bean’s classic one that he drives w/ an armchair on the roof, ha ha. I just don’t like them + any car where they can’t even put all the gauges you need RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU is automatically a FUCKING FAILURE! When I hear Mini I automatically think “unreliable” and “expensive to fix” just like I do w/ Audi. That Saab is so nice, fun, and awesome. It looks like a blast to cruise around in…I’ll have a ton of fun in the sun…
Viggen, no doubt. I have a 2017 countryman S that’s a hoot to drive, but it’s still not as pleasant as any of the Saabs I’ve owned. And when another Saab aficionado pulls up and sees the Viggen emblem, they will definitely give you a ‘thumbs up’.
I voted Saab, mainly because of pleasant memories associated with a couple of 5-door 9000s. That, and I didn’t like the cabin or the ride in the Minis. I realize the Mini would likely be easier to keep running. So what.
I’m sure the Saab would be a blast, but mileage aside, I just wouldn’t willingly choose something I knew would be a pain to get serviced.
I’ve loved those silly Minis since they were first re-issued, and I suspect this one, so long as I babied the clutch, wouldn’t give me much trouble while providing smiles per gallon.
Kudos to both sellers, BTW, for the good top-up photos. That seems to be missing way too often in these listings.
Considering I already own a reliable, red German V6 convertible with 134K miles, a cleaner interior, and is worth 3/5 as much as these are asking (according to CarFax), I think I’ll just keep mine.
Though I’d rather have hardtops, I chose the Saab having driven similar versions of both these cars. To me, the Mini interior is too plasticky, the suspension too choppy, and the brand’s reliability too iffy. Not that an old Saab is likely to be a trouble-free ownership either, but of the two, the Saab seems like the saner choice.
Rather than lived in the interior of the Saab is giving me Sanford and Son flashbacks. I’ll take the mustard on my Vert and leave the Catsup, the cheaper version of ketchup to the masses.
If one of these had to be my ONLY car, the smarter bet is to go with the Mini. But for a project/weekend car, something to tinker on, restore, and enjoy, the Saab is a no-brainer for me.
Normally, I’d go with the Saab (who doesn’t love a good Saab Story?), but my family has a curse. Every red car we have owned dating back to my parents’ 1969 Bonneville and continuing through the Subaru GL Wagon I drove in the early 1990s has died a horrible death; crash, fire, engine grenading.
So I’m stuck with Mustard.
In this case, I’m gonna go with the Mini because as a former 2000 Saab 9-3 owner, parts/service was already starting to get more difficult to find when I got rid of that car in 2012.
And now 14 years later, I can’t imagine parts and service for these Saabs has gotten easier or cheaper.
And since that time, the Saab specialist I used has gone out of business.
So I’m going with the Mini. Because while parts/service will also be expensive, at least if you run into a problem you can’t figure out, you can still go to a dealer who can help you.
Wife has an ’06 Mini convertible; the local BMW dealership won’t work on it. They say we have to take it to the nearest metro area (Portland OR) where there is a Mini – specific shop (a 3 hour drive from where we live).
So don’t count on being able to take your Mini to the dealer – we have taken it to an independent shop – with mixed results.
A 3 hour drive to a Mini-specific shop is still better than what you’ll find with the Saab.
When I had my 2000 Saab 9-3, parts/service was already starting to get more difficult to find when I got rid of that car in 2012.
And now 14 years later, I can’t imagine parts and service for these Saabs has gotten easier or cheaper.
And since that time, the Saab specialist I used has gone out of business.
And the website I used to go to for info and order parts from (TheSaabSite) has also shut down.
You can still get parts, but they are now waaaay more expensive. For example… the APC boost valve. Back in the day, I replaced mine myself. And the part was just $60. Now? It’s CAD$369.80
https://nordicspeed.com/products/apc-boost-solenoid-valve-t-5-turbo-oem-saab?_pos=2&_sid=7cb9b265a&_ss=r
And that assumes they’ll get in more stock (which might be a big assuption)… because it’s listed as sold out right now.
So while the parts/service for the old Mini might not be great, I assure you that it’s still better/easier than with an even older Saab.
With the Saab, you have to be prepared to do A LOT of work yourself… including diagnosing problems because a lot of the Saab-specific shops have sadly disappeared.
It’s a Saab I’m sure there are plenty new ones in the salvage yards now and the internet makes finding them a breeze
New ones in salvage yards?
Wat?
this year mini is in the range for the Clutch to have been known for Pre-Mature failure. supposedly an engine out thing to fix it too. Mini’s are definitely vehicles you need to get some reference on with regard to engine, year and model. some are decent, lots are not. I would have to look into the 1.6 more before pulling the trigger. the miles and overall vehicle is more of a draw than a 25 year old orphan brand. But That year saab is pretty special even outside of the rarity of the viggen package. I would probably end up in the Saab and then wish I went mini the first thing that popped up needing repair.
This was actually a tough choice today. I am a convertible guy, and the Saab looks like a fun ride. However, I already have a convertible that would put this one to shame. Now my wife loves little cars and she’s forever commenting on the Minis. But she’ll never drive with the top down.
Had to go with the Saab, if only for a summer.
It’s gotta be the saab even with the miles and age.
I’ve long thought of both as sort of $1k to $3k used cars that you don’t really want to deal with. The saab people are interesting you can probably find out what’s wrong with tit by reading 200 posts and then some guy called green mountain wizard or something explains you have to pull the dash out to get to some random relay and it only took him 3 hours . Where the mini falls in to bmw everything can be tuned though software until something very catastrophic happens to the engine and maybe the trans. For the money I suppose saab if the mini was $3k or under maybe that.
People are often a little spooked by the idea of fixing a Saab but they really aren’t that hard to work on, and like you said they’re really well understood by enthusiasts.
Not really hard but often time consuming. And head scratching why is this here is this place that took me all this time to get to.
yeah but once you have that all figured out it goes great the next 12 times!
I was one of those Saab people in the past. And if you own a Saab like that these days, you should only have it as a 2nd car and you have to be okay with the car being down for days or weeks while you wait for a part to arrive.
You won’t be able to count on local parts stores having the parts you need for a Saab.
For sure, and better know few saab horders that will sell or give you parts off their parts cars. Or I guess become the saab horder.
I just saw a red version of that drop top Mini at the corner store yesterday, still thinking about it so I’ll take the Bimmer Mini.
I’m not a convertible person, but you had me at Viggen.
Gotta continue the SAAB winning streak!
That Mini Cooper is one of the worst cars ever made, so I voted for the red car and hope the Viggen rescue kit is still available
Sure is! (the kit, but I suppose also the thing about the Mini…)
This is actually a rather tough one. And the Mini convertible still being a first gen platform is important cause the late first gen’s were reasonably reliable while the early 2nd gen’s were horrible. I voted Mini but immediately felt like changing to Saab, I’d love a both option today, haha!
The mini tries to be sporty and fails by being low on power and high on weight.
The saab never wanted to be a sportscar. It is just a convertable that somebody shoved a way to powerfull engine in. Which makes it a lot more fun in the end.
Saab FTW.
Saab today. I really like that red. For 233k miles, someone has really taken care of it. I’d buy it today and I already have a convertible.
The Mini is cool too and for a yellow car, it works. It’s not the S which means it not a quick but those early S models has some engine issues anyway. 60k isn’t a lot of miles for a clutch but if the driver was commuting a few miles North into SF, then I could see a clutch not lasting quite as long.
it comes across as cozy and lived-in, not beat-up.
Agree to disagree? The Saab was “cozy” in 2006 and “lived in” by 2010 at the latest. I imagine it attained “beat-up” status sometime during Obama’s second term.
I still voted for the Saab. I just like it. I have nothing against the Mini, though – that car also looks fun.
Thanks, Obama.
I racked up over 500k on my Saab Turbo. This one’s just getting broken in. I vote Viggen.
As the current owner of a 2005 Mini Cooper S convertible (triple blue, 6MT, ~120K miles, for sale…), I have to vote Saab for this one.
Friggin in the Viggen!!!
Always wanted one of these, and the wear and tear on this one just shows it’s been used appropriately.