Home » I Crawled Underneath The New Scout To Look At The Engineering. Here’s What I Found

I Crawled Underneath The New Scout To Look At The Engineering. Here’s What I Found

Scout Solid Axle Ts2
ADVERTISEMENT

As beautiful as the new Scout Traveler and Terra are, one thing that we haven’t seen nearly enough of is hardware. We’ve seen the sheetmetal and the fancy interior, we’ve heard all the specs, we’ve listened to all the heritage mumbo-jumbo marketing, but let’s all be honest: We want to see engineering. We want to see suspension. We want to see the frame. After all, we cannot truly know a car unless we know its bones, which is why I’m here to show you what I saw when I crawled under the new Scout Traveler and Terra. Let’s dive in.

OK, first things firsts: this is a body-on-frame machine, while there was unfortunately very little frame to actually see at the reveal event (there were just aero shields; more on that soon), there are a few photos from Scout’s own media KIT.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

The Frame And The Range Extender

Here’s the Traveler’s frame:

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 12.46.14 Am

And here’s the Terra’s:

ADVERTISEMENT

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 12.50.54 Am

Both of these appear to be steel frames; you can see that the crossmembers span above the battery, plus you can see what looks like a traditional double wishbone independent front suspension and you can see how the large hole in the rear part of the frame accommodates the rather large rear-differential-mounted electric motor (can’t wait to show you that in just a moment). You’ll also see what looks to be a cage over the range extender, a small gas engine (likely to come from the VW family) that charges the battery after the battery has depleted, which should happen after about 100 to 150 miles of EV-only range, per Scout.

Speaking of, have a look — the gasoline range extender sits at the very rear of the frame under the rear cargo area, with what appears to be…a fuel tank (?) just ahead of the battery.

\ Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 6.23.57 Am

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 6.23.35 Am

ADVERTISEMENT

Check out that red bit shown on the right of the image below. Very interesting!

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 1.13.15 Am

I reached out to Kevin Harty, who works at Munro and Associates to get his initial thoughts. Here are a few of them, including a note that there may need to be more crash protection for that rear range extender on the production model:

Unlike the Rivian it seems like the pack basis the rear more. I do think they might end up with more protection for the Rex with those short overhangs. Not a lot of free crush space or air gap between the E Beam.
Unlike the Rivian it seems like the pack biases the rear more.
Looking where the fuel filler neck is, I would guess that front gap in the battery area is for fuel.
Also no B pillar cab mount. Also Toyota-esque.
It’s interesting that a lot of the frames cross car structure runs over the battery versus under. Likely for service and side impact.
Also seems like a bulkhead of sorts at the front of the frame/battery area.
No delibrate [IIHS Small Overlap Rigid Barrier Crash Test] countermeasures. So maybe its all defensive in that bulkhead area.

Very interesting. There is a bulkhead just ahead of the battery. Maybe that’s for protection of that tank. I also showed Kevin the rear axle, which he refers to as the “EBeam axle.” Check it out — the motor is actually mounted directly to the rigid axle, just above. You can also see an oil cooler:

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 5.46.47 Am

ADVERTISEMENT

Here’s another angle (I think this is the Terra):

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 5.47.18 Am

And here you can see the axle on the gearbox side (passenger side):

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 5.47.33 Am

And here it is from the front. You can see there’s actually a removable pan at the front of the axle:

ADVERTISEMENT

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 5.48.03 Am

Zf Ebeam Axle 2
UPDATE! Pete here, that’s ZF’s pic of the eBeam axle above. David asked me to get that in pronto “with a hat tip to Joel.” Consider our hats tipped! 

“The EBeam looks similar to a lot of others I have seen for customers. Weight and [road] impact to the inverter could be a concern,” he told me, mentioning that the EBeam is currently being looked at predominantly by commercial vehicle manufacturers.

To discuss this new electric solid axle — which should offer the tremendous articulation that an independent suspension setup usually cannot – I’ve sent a bunch of photos to our in-house suspension engineer, Huibert Mees. Here’s what he has to say.

A Look At The Industry’s First Electric Solid Axle (In The U.S.)

Hi, this is Huibert taking over. Just this week, as David Tracy has already reported, the Volkswagen-funded Scout brand introduced its first two models – the ‘Terra” pickup and the ‘Traveler” SUV. David is over the moon about them as are many other people, but I have some questions. Scout claims these vehicles use solid axles, which means that, as far as I am aware, they are the first EVs to do so. Normally, EVs, including all EV pickups that I’m aware of, use an independent suspension, regardless of whether the original platform used solid axles. I talked about this in my post and video about the F-150/Raptor/lighting trio.

In that case, both the base F-150 and the Raptor use solid rear axles, but the Lightning changes to a fully independent rear suspension. The reason is that with a big battery underneath the vehicle, there is no room for a driveshaft. This means the motor has to be at the rear of the vehicle, so it only makes sense to mount the motor right where the axle is and run independent halfshafts out to the wheels. Of course, the motor now takes up the space that the axle housing would need in order to move up and down with the suspension. An independent suspension design is the only practical way to resolve this problem. Or so I thought.

ADVERTISEMENT

Up to now, solid axles and EV motors simply didn’t merge in my mind. So, what did Scout do? Well, fear not, fellow Autopians, thanks to David’s intrepid phone camera, we have some photos that offer us clues to answer this burning question. Let’s start with the front suspension:

Img 2479

Img 2476

Img 2478

Looks like a fairly standard double wishbone design with a Rack and Pinion steering setup. This is standard fare for pickups, even EV trucks. There’s nothing out of the ordinary, and without knowing a lot more detail about this specific design, nothing I can find fault with. A good choice! [Ed Note: I’m not a huge fan of CV-axles over u-joint axles, but independent suspension designs pretty much always use CVs, so I’ll deal with it. The downside of a CV axle is that the CV joint boots can tear while off-road, and if that happens, the joint fails. Repairing the joint on the trail is a difficult affair. On a Jeep Wrangler with a solid front axle, you have universal joints, which don’t have rubber boots to tear (just small rubber seals), and if they fail, you can replace them with a $15 part using nothing more than a socket and a rock. This, along with reduced articulation, is a small compromise from someone used to a solid front axle, but it’s entirely expected. -DT]. 

ADVERTISEMENT

Now let’s look at the rear:

Img 2447

Img 2441

Img 2428

Img 2412

ADVERTISEMENT

We can clearly see that this is NOT an independent suspension but is indeed a solid axle, as Scout claims. We can also see a couple of the links that hold the axle in place. Here are two slightly different angles of the same axle, with the lower one showing one of the upper control arm links:

Scout Solid Axle Cc

Scout Solid Axle 2

Two lower links, a Panhard rod, and an anti-roll bar. There’s also a pair of upper links to go along with the lower links. Together, they form the necessary support and location of the axle, very similar to the Ford Bronco, Jeep Wrangler, F-150 Raptor, as well as the Toyota Tacoma and many others.

But if we look a little more closely, we see something else:

ADVERTISEMENT

Scout Solid Axle Motor Cc

 

We see what certainly appears to be an electric motor located above the axle and a gearbox inline with the wheels. All of this is located in the axle housing which together with the axle shafts, brakes, wheels, and tires, makes one giant assembly. That’s a LOT of stuff that has to move up and down every time the wheels encounter a bump. It’s called unsprung mass and one of every suspension engineer’s goals in life is to reduce unsprung mass as much as possible.

Let’s Talk Unsprung Mass

Unsprung mass refers to the mass of the parts of the car that are NOT supported by the springs. This includes the wheels and tires, the brakes, the knuckles and bearings and a portion of the suspension control arms. It is “unsprung” because the springs are not supporting this mass.

ADVERTISEMENT

When a vehicle encounters a bump in the road, the springs isolate the body and occupants from the impact via the springs. But the portion of the car, i.e. the suspension, that has to move up and over the bump, is not isolated by the springs and so all that stuff has to move out of the way. If you are going slowly, it only has to move out of the way slowly, but if you are moving at speed, the wheels/tires/brakes/knuckles/etc. have to move very quickly.

The heavier all that stuff is, the less it wants to move quickly. Conversely, once it gets moving, it wants to keep moving, and then all that mass really becomes a problem. When the suspension moves up over a bump, the things that stop it and push it back to its original place are the springs and dampers. If the unsprung mass is low, the springs and dampers don’t have to work very hard to stop the suspension movement and push it back down. With high unsprung mass, the springs and dampers have to work much harder and may not be able to stop all this movement in time. The tires could, in extreme cases, momentarily lose contact with the ground.

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 6.02.30 Am

If you’ve ever driven an old solid axle car around a bumpy turn, you will probably have experienced the sideways dance these cars would do as the tires lose contact with the ground and lose grip. Not very pleasant. Of course, we could use really stiff springs and dampers to help control the axle motion but that would hurt ride, and we don’t want that.

This whole phenomenon is the main reason solid axles are no longer used in passenger cars and independent rear suspensions have taken over. It is just not possible to get the level of ride, comfort, and handling with the unsprung mass of a solid axle these days.

ADVERTISEMENT

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 6.03.06 Am

So, what can we make of this design used by Scout? To be honest, I have my doubts. EV motors are not particularly small, and that gearbox most likely contains a set of strong steel gears and a differential. None of this is light especially compared with just a differential as you would find in any other solid axle design. It will probably be fine when rock crawling, but I can see problems with ride and shake in the vehicle as all that mass is asked to move over a bumpy road at anything more than 20-30 MPH. I hope I’m wrong, but my experience tells me this could be a big issue for Scout.

There is one more thing I will mention here although it is not suspension related and is really outside my area of expertise. That electric motor needs power and the cables that provide that power are big. They also carry a LOT of current. With the motor moving up and down, these cables have to move up and down as well, and I would worry about their durability. I can only assume Scout has this figured out and provided adequate strain relief on both ends of each wire. You do NOT want one of these cables fatiguing and causing a short circuit. This is all very new information and very incomplete, I know. We will of course bring you more details as we learn them.

Off-Road Hardware And Some More Underbody Images

OK, back to David again.

Let’s look at dimensions. The Traveler and Terra are big. Like, bigger than you think. The Traveler, for example, is longer and wider than a Ford Bronco Raptor, which is enormous:

ADVERTISEMENT

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 10.12.44 Am

The Terra is only a couple of inches shorter than a Ford F-150 Lightning and a smidge shorter, but it’s significantly wider.

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 10.11.52 Am

Peeking at the Traveler’s off-road attributes (since it’s clearly the more capable of the two vehicles), the front overhang is absurdly small. I’d guess an approach angle of over 40 degrees, thanks in part to those big 35-inch all-terrain tires:

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 6.07.49 Am

ADVERTISEMENT

The arse is a bit larger, but the departure angle looks to be at least 33 degrees, which is good:

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 6.07.39 Am

My biggest concern from a geometry standpoint is the Traveler’s belly. Those rockers look fairly low, though it’s not too bad. I’m also moderately concerned about that rear tire carrier only being just outside of the vehicle’s departure angle. You don’t want to bash that on a slope as you come off it:

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 6.10.08 Am

But overall geometry looks great. The tow points up front were basically just for looks; the production model should have a similar appearance, but not feel so plastic-y (this was a concept vehicle). The tow point locations up front look great — right up front, one on each side. I could do without the climbing rope hole (that’s not really appropriate for towing), but it’s fine:

ADVERTISEMENT

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 6.08.05 Am

Tow points out back are also right on the bumper, one on each side; I’m a fan:

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 6.14.11 Am

As for skid plating, a lot of what I saw under the vehicle looked like plastic aero covers. I could be wrong, of course, and it’s possible this isn’t production intent:

462549499 455488886996003 8887121454325820252 N

ADVERTISEMENT

462544263 2879794225519273 8427004915973923842 N

462535715 566585955763692 5675553202676093574 N

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 6.19.47 Am

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 6.18.39 Am

But up front there is what looks like an aluminum bash plate:

ADVERTISEMENT

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 6.21.25 Am

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 6.18.13 Am

And there’s also one at the rear:

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 6.20.15 Am

Screen Shot 2024 10 25 At 6.20.01 Am

ADVERTISEMENT

So that’s just a quick look at the new Scouts’ tech. There’s a good look at that EBeam axle, there’s a close look at the underbody shielding, there’s a discussion of the range extender and frame, and there’s some great insight from in-house suspension guru Huibert Mees. I can’t wait to learn more about these machines — especially the battery chemistry/geometry/cooling — as they get closer to production so we can get really nerdy.

Share on facebook
Facebook
Share on whatsapp
WhatsApp
Share on twitter
Twitter
Share on linkedin
LinkedIn
Share on reddit
Reddit
Subscribe
Notify of
122 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
1 month ago

So what about the ICE, any further info there? Displacement? Power? Cylinder count? Peak thermal efficiency? Fuel requirements, Fuel saving techs (Atkinson cycle, DOD, hyper efficient tuning, hit and miss, compression ignition, crazy high compression ratios etc)?

Inquiring minds want to know!

RioCarmi
RioCarmi
1 month ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

Did I miss something? I don’t believe this car will have an ICE powertrain, just electric with the gas range extender right? Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
1 month ago
Reply to  RioCarmi

The gas range extender is an internal combustion engine.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
1 month ago

Don’t forget about the death wobble of solid front axles!

(Not that it applies here of course, just another reason you don’t see them so much anymore)

Last edited 1 month ago by Cheap Bastard
Rust Buckets
Rust Buckets
1 month ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

1. Not a solid front axle on the Scout
2. Properly designed and maintained solid front axle suspensions do not death wobble. Ever. It’s not like this is some inherent and unavoidable drawback of solid front axles, it’s a solved problem. In my experience, death wobble is exceedingly rare even if the suspension isn’t designed and maintained properly.
3. Death wobble is not exclusive to solid axles. Some independent front suspensions are fairly prone to death wobble, and motorcycles do it all the time.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
1 month ago
Reply to  Rust Buckets

Not according to DT:

https://jalopnik.com/jeep-death-wobble-is-so-violent-it-will-make-you-crap-y-1795053642

In my decades of driving I have NEVER experienced a death wobble in any car with IFS. Ever. FWD, RWD, AWD they’ve all been fine. On my XJ it happened more than once even after I replaced the damper.

For a “solved problem” its strange that Jeep has been making solid front axle vehicles for 70 years yet the death wobble is still a problem for them and has been all along.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2023/01/27/jeep-death-wobble-settlement-repairs-reimbursements/11133052002/

Last edited 1 month ago by Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
1 month ago

“This whole phenomenon is the main reason solid axles are no longer used in passenger cars and independent rear suspensions have taken over. It is just not possible to get the level of ride, comfort, and handling with the unsprung mass of a solid axle these days.”

AHEM!!

“There’s nothing that comes within a mile of the Vega for performance and handling. This car will outhandle almost any sports car built in Europe.”

“I think that you’re going to see the expiration of independent rear suspension on all cars before long.”

– John Z “Cocaine is a HELL of a Drug!” DeLorean.

Huibert Mees
Huibert Mees
1 month ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

Mmmmm. Yeah, Uh…

JDE
JDE
1 month ago

Magna and ZF have been touting fully packaged solid drive axles with the motor inside like this for a bit now. I think there is even conversion kits planned or already available…hell even Alibaba shows an electric solid axle for sale. it might even make a Chang Li articulate on a trail or something.

At any rate, Scout’s have a reputation for being agricultural, open top but also competent off road. the solid axle is a nod to an attempt at making this new stuff semi-competent off road even though a few of use would want to see solid axles front and back to be honest. Oh, and a fully removable roof.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
1 month ago
Reply to  JDE

“even though a few of use would want to see solid axles front and back to be honest.”

The death wobble of my XJ (ironically) dampened my enthusiasm for solid front axles.

JDE
JDE
1 month ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

it does get many. even the Superduties tend to suffer from it. I honestly think it really relates to how much do we want the things we drive to be truly capable off road. kind of too bad we have not figure out how to make a fully articulating IFS that can be “Turned Off” when in on road mode.

TheDrunkenWrench
TheDrunkenWrench
1 month ago

If you need a primer on solid E-axle tech, search up “Edison Motors” and “DeBoss Garage” on youtube, they’re working on diesel-electric hybrid commercial truck hardware that’s based on E-axles and a smaller diesel working purely as a generator.

Sam Hoffman
Sam Hoffman
1 month ago

I didn’t see it mentioned but I would the primary driver for not keeping a standard live axle design for an electric car is the low efficiency of the hypoid gear set.

Doesn’t the electric g wagon have a de-Dion rear axle which gives you the geometry of the live axle without the weight. That would solve the un sprung weight and flexing high voltage cables.

Last edited 1 month ago by Sam Hoffman
Scoutdude
Scoutdude
1 month ago
Reply to  Sam Hoffman

The motor is inline with the axle so no right angle transfer of power is required. It works just like other electric drive units except that it has axle tubes to hold up wheels instead of places for the CV shafts to go.

Sam Hoffman
Sam Hoffman
1 month ago
Reply to  Scoutdude

I was replying to Hubert:

In that case, both the base F-150 and the Raptor use solid rear axles, but the Lightning changes to a fully independent rear suspension. The reason is that with a big battery underneath the vehicle, there is no room for a driveshaft.

The lack of room for a driveshaft is probably also a factor, but there is probably no way anyone would add an hypoid or bevel gear set to an electric passenger vehicle.

I understand the e beam axle doesn’t have a 90 degree gear set, but I think a De Dion rear suspension would solve the unsprung weight and high voltage line flex problem.

Scoutdude
Scoutdude
1 month ago
Reply to  Sam Hoffman

Yeah a De Dion style system would solve a number of issues.

Fire Ball
Fire Ball
1 month ago

Scout claims these vehicles use solid axles, which means that, as far as I am aware, they are the first EVs to do so.

What??? How can you ignore the Changli in your own Autopian fleet?

Huibert Mees
Huibert Mees
1 month ago
Reply to  Fire Ball

Sorry. I missed that paragon of EV and suspension tech!

Maxzillian
Maxzillian
1 month ago

Anyone notice that the rear axle is just a fake mock-up?

MegaVan
MegaVan
1 month ago

I mean – we can complain about unsprung weight all day… But somehow there are still 150k buyers for Wranglers every year.

Building the brand will be more powerful than springing or unspringing weight.

Huibert Mees
Huibert Mees
1 month ago
Reply to  MegaVan

That is true, but Jeep’s aren’t exactly known for their ride quality. Scout needs to build a brand and reputation so I’m a little surprised they have saddled themselves with what I believe will be a big challenge.

TOSSABL
TOSSABL
1 month ago
Reply to  Huibert Mees

Huibert, this death wobble talk sparked a memory that I’d like you to correct or at least weigh in on: I recall reading that Jeeps, having a history of being an off-road vehicle, had less castor than vehicles designed purely for pavement. I realize that could be a huge subject, but you’ve been pretty damn good at condensing stuff for us.
thanks!

Sam Hoffman
Sam Hoffman
1 month ago
Reply to  Huibert Mees

De-dion seems like the solution to me. Still has the flex and simplicity/durability of solid axle but with low un-sprung weight and prevent the constant flexing of high voltage wires.

TXJeepGuy
TXJeepGuy
1 month ago

I just wish it wasn’t so damn wide.

Beachbumberry
Beachbumberry
1 month ago
Reply to  TXJeepGuy

I’m pretty happy with the width. I have a genuine NEED for a pickup or smaller suv with 6 seats and have really wanted an electric pickup. I’m putting a deposit down for the first time ever haha

TXJeepGuy
TXJeepGuy
1 month ago
Reply to  Beachbumberry

Every time I drive a full size truck I’m annoyed at the width. Hopefully they’ll come out with a Scout II if this is successful.

Beachbumberry
Beachbumberry
1 month ago
Reply to  TXJeepGuy

I could see that. I really like the size of my expedition but need a day to day commuter for my 70 mile round trip (have a model 3 now) that can seat the whole family if and when needed and I’d like another pickup for the weekly projects I do. If the lightning had a front bench, I’d already have one.

Beachbumberry
Beachbumberry
1 month ago
Reply to  TXJeepGuy

I’m going to add to this. I wonder if the 91” width is including the mirrors or not. Because 91” wide is comically and unrealistically wide. An expedition is 80” wide without mirrors.

TXJeepGuy
TXJeepGuy
1 month ago
Reply to  Beachbumberry

91.6 is outside edge of tire to outside edge of tire per the website; mirrors look to be close to that.

Beachbumberry
Beachbumberry
1 month ago
Reply to  TXJeepGuy

I haven’t seen that, I was looking. 91.6” wide is obscenely wide though

Goose
Goose
1 month ago
Reply to  Beachbumberry

Smaller SUV? This Terra is almost 20″ longer than a Wrangler; it’s overall dimensions are not all that far off from a Tahoe.

Goose
Goose
1 month ago
Reply to  Goose

Not Terra, Traveler. Whatever the SUV one is, it’s a big SUV is my point.

TurdSandwhich
TurdSandwhich
1 month ago
Reply to  Goose

The shame is that it’s not a Travelette; that’s basically what the Terra is. A modern version of the Travelette. I’d wager that name was shot down immediately for not being manly enough.

Bob the Hobo
Bob the Hobo
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

Hopefully they’re keeping the Travelette name for a smaller version.

TurdSandwhich
TurdSandwhich
1 month ago
Reply to  Bob the Hobo

Which would be weird, because the Travelette was a full-size truck.

Bob the Hobo
Bob the Hobo
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

That’s on IH to be honest. They were the ones who decided to name a full-size truck with a diminutive suffix. In relation to the Travelall, the Travelette was only smaller in interior room/seating. I don’t think it would be blasphemous to switch the names around.

TurdSandwhich
TurdSandwhich
1 month ago
Reply to  Bob the Hobo

But it would be weird to make a modern version of something, and not name it after that previous version. And then take that same name, and give it to something that is much further from that previous version.

Terra = Travelette

Some future smaller version of the Terra should actually be named Terra since the Scout Terra was (basically) a Scout pickup, which was smaller than all the IH pickups.

Bob the Hobo
Bob the Hobo
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

The brand name is Scout Motors so they’re only using Scout nameplates for now. I do wish they had stuck to a smaller size but I’m willing to assume they went large to fit a battery with sufficient range. I agree the result is much closer to the full size Internationals in practice but the Scout names hold more cache than the Travelall/Travelette.

Scoutdude
Scoutdude
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

A Scout II Pickup is 18″ shorter than a Terra.

Beachbumberry
Beachbumberry
1 month ago
Reply to  Goose

Oh yea, it’s big, but it’s still smaller than a Tahoe. It’s 10” shorter than an r1t as well. That said, it’s wider. A lot wider.

Last edited 1 month ago by Beachbumberry
My Skoda is the Most Superb
My Skoda is the Most Superb
1 month ago
Reply to  Goose

I would be willing to bet that the ~208 inch length of the Traveler includes the rear spare tire. If we look at the Defender 130 for example, its ~212 inches long with the spare tire and ~201 inches long without it. The Traveler sans rear spare tire I/m sure will land in the 196-199 inch range, which puts it bang on with the 4Runner/LC250, and slightly longer than the latest Grand Cherokee.

Detroit-Lightning
Detroit-Lightning
1 month ago

You’ll also see what looks to be a cage over the range extender, a small gas engine (likely to come from the VW family) that charges the battery after the battery has depleted, which should happen after about 100 to 150 miles of EV-only range, per Scout.

Only 100-150 miles of EV only range? Or 100-150 miles of range extender?

Per the Scout website:

Pure electric models offer up to 350 miles of range. Scout’s extended range models offer 500 miles of range or more through a built-in, gas-powered generator. Even in the middle of nowhere, you can still get there. 8, 9

Matt DeCraene
Matt DeCraene
1 month ago

My guess to what they mean here is that in the range extended version, the default is that the motor kicks on after 150 miles, with a goal of depleting the gas tank and battery at the same time.

This is likely because the gas motor can’t produce enough continuous power to maintain vehicle speeds in all conditions. (I think David talked about how his first i3 has reduced speeds with the battery completely dead). It does create an interesting problem in that you would need to refuel and recharge once everything was depleted to get full power.

This is what I see as the main differentiator between a plug in hybrid and a range extended EV. With a PHEV, you can expect normal performance regardless of battery state, the REEV needs battery charge to have normal performance.

Edited to add:
It also differentiates a Series Hybrid from a range extended vehicle. A series hybrid needs its engine sized to produce the average power demand of the vehicle under all conditions. The battery buffers peaks from things like acceleration, and stores regen energy. Range Extended vehicles can use a smaller engine, since they are only supplementing the battery and are never expected to be the only source of energy.

Last edited 1 month ago by Matt DeCraene
Rexracer
Rexracer
1 month ago

My assumption is the battery in the REX version is 1/2 to 1/3 the size of the EV only version. This saves weight/expense that is then added back with the gas motor. But we are all just speculating till real information comes out.

Scoutdude
Scoutdude
1 month ago
Reply to  Rexracer

They did say that the Harvester version costs less to build (but not necessarily buy).

The only way I seem them taking out enough cost to more than make up the difference for the ICE, Generator, Inverter other pieces needed to implement it is by making the battery significantly smaller.

4jim
4jim
1 month ago

A game changer would have been a 6.5 ft bed not a 5.5 ft bed. A 6.5 ft bed would allow for most of the population to sleep in the bed when camping.

TurdSandwhich
TurdSandwhich
1 month ago

I was super interested in these until I looked up the dimensions. I thought they were R1S and R1T sized; turns out they are Expedition and F150 sized. Ooof. Too big for me. They are a good 10″ longer and 10″ wider than their Rivian counterparts. Unsure if the width on the Scout includes mirrors though, since the Rivian numbers I used don’t; they are folded.

Church
Church
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

This was going to be my first query and now I’m out. I do not need 35-inch tires and do not need F150 width. Not only to I not need that, I don’t want it. That thing is not going to fit in my garage and that’s a hard stop for me.

A Reader
A Reader
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

To each their own. But lots of complaints about Rivian too small out there too.

TurdSandwhich
TurdSandwhich
1 month ago
Reply to  A Reader

I haven’t seen any complaints about the Rivians being too small. I’m not saying they don’t exist, but I’m not sure there’s lots of them. Lots of complaints about range while towing, lots of complaints about cost of repairs, lots of complaints about the gear tunnel kitchen thing, lots of complaints about the fancy bed cover… haven’t seen any regarding it being too small.

Rexracer
Rexracer
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

Oh, ill be your first, the Rivian is to small for the way I would want to use it with my family. This makes the scout very interesting to me, just a bit more room.

Always broke
Always broke
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

The width is crazy, almost seems like a typo 91.5″, a f150 Raptor is only 86″.

TurdSandwhich
TurdSandwhich
1 month ago
Reply to  Always broke

I suspect it includes the mirrors, but who knows. For example, an F150 without mirrors is 79.9″, with mirrors folded it 83.6, and with mirrors it is 95.7.

Always broke
Always broke
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

Yeah, even so, this is clearly in the fullsize catagory. That’s probably where the profits are, but not really what I would want.

TurdSandwhich
TurdSandwhich
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

Just so it’s here…

LxWxH…

Traveler: 207.9 x 91.6 x 76.3
R1S: 200.8 x 82.0 x 77.3
Expedition: 210.0 x 83.6 x 76.6
Tahoe: 210.7 x 81.0 x 75.9

Terra: 229.2 x 91.6 x 77.0
R1T: 217.1 x 82.0 x 78.2
F150: 232.0 x 83.6 x 77.1
Silverado: 231.9 x 81.2 x 75.5

Lewis26
Lewis26
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

The width is marked as “widest”, so I’m guessing it’s mirror to mirror.

But the mirrors looked tucked so they stick out the same amount as the wheels/fenders.

This thing is very large.

TurdSandwhich
TurdSandwhich
1 month ago
Reply to  Lewis26

The width is marked as “widest”, so I’m guessing it’s mirror to mirror.

There’s no consistency in this, so it’s a guess really. Heck, if anything, Ford is the only one that clearly tells you what they are measuring since they give you three width measurements (excluding mirrors, including mirrors, including mirrors but folded in). Everyone else does something different. Chevy gives you “without mirrors” but does that mean folded, or with mirrors completely removed? Who knows. Rivian gives you with mirrors folded, so at least that’s obvious.

LionZoo
LionZoo
1 month ago
Reply to  Lewis26

The mirrors look to be in line with the edge of the tires on the drawing because the drawing is in perspective and are thus deceiving. If you look at the actual pictures of the thing, it’s very obvious the mirrors protrude past the edge of the tires.

4jim
4jim
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

oof that is almost 20 in wider than my JKU. so much for narrow trails.

Rust Buckets
Rust Buckets
1 month ago
Reply to  4jim

That measurement includes mirrors. This will be 80″ wide, so 6″ wider than your Wrangler. The same as every other fullsize SUV. Which is to say, kinda wide for narrow trails.

Rust Buckets
Rust Buckets
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

To clarify:

NHTSA regulations require extra marker lights on vehicles 80″ wide or wider. That’s why duallys, Raptors, the Hummer EV, and the Wagoneer have extra marker lights; those are the only vehicles on the market over 79.9″ wide.

The f150/Expedition, Silverado/Tahoe/Suburban, and the Rivian are all 79.9″ wide fender flare to fender flare, like fullsize pickups and SUVs always have been.

It would be rather baffling for Scout to make this more than 80″ wide, and I see no marker lights, so it’s quite safe to assume that the Scouts will be the same width as almost every other fullsize rig at 79.9″ flare to flare(meaning without mirrors).

Mike B
Mike B
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

I can’t believe these are 10″ WIDER than a Tahoe/Silverado, there’s got to be some inconsistencies in the way they’re measured.

Last edited 1 month ago by Mike B
Goose
Goose
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

C’mon GM, where is my fullsize K5 replacement? Everyone is all on on the off road SUV market. I was fine not going after the Wrangler/Bronco/4Runner, but GM you’ve been sitting on the sidelines for long enough now. Scout just took the market you should have gone after….

Last edited 1 month ago by Goose
TurdSandwhich
TurdSandwhich
1 month ago
Reply to  Goose

I’d wager it ain’t coming. GM has had 15 years to release a true F150 Raptor competitor, and the current Silverado ZR2 is a long ways from that.

I’m just amazed they don’t release a Blazer (well, they’d have to call it something else) on the Colorado platform.

4jim
4jim
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

A four-door blazer based on the ZR2 colorado bison would be awesome.

Mike B
Mike B
1 month ago
Reply to  4jim

I’ve been saying the same thing. Especially as the new 4Runner looks so disappointing, a Colorado based SUV would be a real competitor.

Bob the Hobo
Bob the Hobo
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

They had a Colorado-based SUV in the works but cancelled it a few years ago. Typical GM.

Scored ims
Scored ims
1 month ago
Reply to  Goose

I’d be all over a fullsize 2 door modern K5 or Bronco

Rust Buckets
Rust Buckets
1 month ago
Reply to  TurdSandwhich

I’m seeing 201″ long for an R1S, 208″ long for a Scout Traveler, and 210″ long for an Expedition short wheelbase(222″ for a long wheelbase Expedition, which is what most of us are more familiar with, those sell significantly more.)

7″ longer is not 10″, and it’s also only a 3.3% difference. Barely noticeable honestly.

Looks to be the same width as Rivian and everything else. NHTSA requires extra marker lights on vehicles 80″ or wider(measured fender to fender, no mirrors), that’s why duallys and Raptors have those extra lights. I see no extra width marker lights on the Scout, and also 92″ is absurd and it is obviously not that wide in the pictures. The Hummer EV, which is enormous, is ‘only’ 87″ wide. You’d see it, immediately, if this was actually 5″ wider than a Hummer.

Last edited 1 month ago by Rust Buckets
TurdSandwhich
TurdSandwhich
1 month ago
Reply to  Rust Buckets

So you’re just going to ignore that my comment was in reference to the pickups too?

10001010
10001010
1 month ago

Is anyone else seeing a hint of the old International Harvester logo in that headlight design?

Church
Church
1 month ago
Reply to  10001010

I believe that is the intent. It doesn’t feel subtle at all, so I presume it’s intentional.

Jmfecon
Jmfecon
1 month ago

A question: how much better the battery protection has to be in an off-road intend vehicle when compared to a regular one?

Because certainly it will be more abused than a regular EV, and I learned this week that a lot of EVs here in Brazil are damaging the battery packs due excessively high height speed bumps, so I was wondering how thicker it should be when we talk about an off-road vehicle that will probably have a much higher risk in puncturing a battery pack in a stone or something similar.

4jim
4jim
1 month ago
Reply to  Jmfecon

very good question. I have carved holes in several factory skid plates on ICE jeeps.

Last edited 1 month ago by 4jim
Robot Turds
Robot Turds
1 month ago

Maybe its just me but these both look like badge engineered Rivians. Other than the front and back they look almost identical.

sentinelTk
sentinelTk
1 month ago
Reply to  Robot Turds

You’re not the only one…..remove the Scout branding and show me these in a vacuum, I probably would have guessed it is the next gen Rivian concepts. That said, I love the aesthetic. Would be interested if I was into off-roading. Instead, I’ll wait patiently for my R3….

10001010
10001010
1 month ago
Reply to  sentinelTk

I seriously can’t wait for them to hurry up and make that R3X.

Tagarito
Tagarito
1 month ago

So David, did you feel at home crawling underneath them new Scouts?

Spectre6000
Spectre6000
1 month ago

First thought was the bench seat photo. “No way that makes it to production.” Awesome!

Second thought, that’s a TON of unsprung mass!!! I wonder if the ride quality aspect isn’t offset by the overall weight of the platform? Maybe the efficiency piece doesn’t matter yet in EVs because no one really has any firm expectations?

Third thought, “serviceability”. That aluminum plate on the rear axle with all those bolts… That seems to bode well!

Mark Tucker
Mark Tucker
1 month ago

Motor and gearbox on a solid axle, huh? So basically it’s a gigantic Tamiya Hornet.

Keith Hinton
Keith Hinton
1 month ago
Reply to  Mark Tucker

You say that like it would be a bad thing!

Mark Tucker
Mark Tucker
1 month ago
Reply to  Keith Hinton

Not in the slightest. I have five Grasshoppers and Hornets, and I love them.

Keith Hinton
Keith Hinton
1 month ago
Reply to  Mark Tucker

Don’t tease! I used to have a Grasshopper, Hornet, and a Subaru Brat back in the day. So much fun!!

3WiperB
3WiperB
1 month ago

If they pull off the things they presented (especially the price), I could see replacing my 1/2 ton truck with a Terra Harvester. At least on paper, that sounds like what I need for towing my camper. I’ll be interested to see if the payload of 2000 lbs that was mentioned in the reveal yesterday is still that high with the range extender. 10,000 lbs of towing is fine for me, and it’s almost always payload that runs out first in a 1/2 ton truck. I expect all the battery weight down low will make this a great performing tow vehicle.

Patches O' Houlihan
Patches O' Houlihan
1 month ago

Which parts do you identify from the Volkswagen parts bin so I know what to replace?

Goose
Goose
1 month ago

Dana/Spicer has had solid axle electric motor combo units for a couple years now; but I’m unaware of anyone actually using them. They call them e-Axles. Anyone know if they are any good? It looks like they have both a commercial and light vehicle application. I can’t tell if the Scout uses it or not since Dana only has like one picture of their eaxle.

https://www.dana.com/products/light-vehicle/products/?par=09ad34dd-2fc8-4f4a-a5d3-ee63b92c24a5#product-results

Last edited 1 month ago by Goose
Ron Gartner
Ron Gartner
1 month ago
Reply to  Goose

There are some videos on the Scout site about people swapping to electric drivetrains. I haven’t watched them yet, but I’m hoping one used an eAxle so we can see how well it drives.

Scoutdude
Scoutdude
1 month ago
Reply to  Goose

I thought I saw somewhere else that Dana is the E-axle supplier for the Scout vehicles.

Fuzz
Fuzz
1 month ago
Reply to  Fuzz

And oh, hey, Scout is partnered with Magna, so this is potentially built by them.

https://thebusinessdownload.com/scout-moves-forward-with-magna-as-engineering-partner/

Speedway Sammy
Speedway Sammy
1 month ago

Mees and Tracy together for this edition of Engineers Gone Wild!

4jim
4jim
1 month ago

I have a question about the range extent extender. Can it completely power the vehicle for a long period of time like say driving across the Dakotas, Wyoming and Montana without finding a charger and only finding gas stations? I’m just curious.

Last edited 1 month ago by 4jim
Rad Barchetta
Rad Barchetta
1 month ago
Reply to  4jim

Electric motors drive the wheels at all times. Think of the range extender as a gas-powered battery charger, or generator. Because that’s what it is! In that capacity it can run at a constant speed for maximum efficiency. You should be able to run it on gas only for as long as you need to.

Goose
Goose
1 month ago
Reply to  Rad Barchetta

Should is the big word. Some cars like early i3 REVs will cut electric power in some instances because the gas engine can’t produce enough power to meet demand.

4jim
4jim
1 month ago
Reply to  Goose

Exactly, driving days on trails with only a gas can, loads of camping gear, and no charger in site is something I do in my jeep regularly.

Rad Barchetta
Rad Barchetta
1 month ago
Reply to  Goose

Right. I’m making an assumption that since the stated electric-only range was 150 miles or so and the combined is over 500, that it is sized to adequately meet that demand.
Edit: I know they said 350, not 150. Somewhere (that I can’t find right now) said 150 for the hybrid drivetrain. I can’t confirm if that’s accurate or not.

Last edited 1 month ago by Rad Barchetta
Rexracer
Rexracer
1 month ago
Reply to  Rad Barchetta

David says it in the article above “You’ll also see what looks to be a cage over the range extender, a small gas engine (likely to come from the VW family) that charges the battery after the battery has depleted, which should happen after about 100 to 150 miles of EV-only range, per Scout.” So REX version has much smaller battery, but adds motor for charging.

Rad Barchetta
Rad Barchetta
1 month ago
Reply to  Rexracer

Yup! That’s where I saw it! Directly above in this exact article! (I really gotta stop those breakfast martinis)

Last edited 1 month ago by Rad Barchetta
Speedway Sammy
Speedway Sammy
1 month ago
Reply to  4jim

Not sure how big the gas engine is but my guess would be yes it can drive continuously. Perhaps not pushing this aero brick at Montana interstate speeds (85mph+) but at some level of capability.

Always broke
Always broke
1 month ago
Reply to  4jim

I’ve wondered this as well. Even if it can, the gas engine only adds 150 miles of range, and presumably without charging battery the gas engine and tank would only give you that same distance between fill ups running on all gas. So you may be able to do long distances without charging, but you’ll be stopping a lot.

4jim
4jim
1 month ago
Reply to  Always broke

That would be fine. I think my record was going 96 miles between gas stations in WY.

Always broke
Always broke
1 month ago
Reply to  4jim

I think the key for me to make this work for long (multi-day) trips is having L2 charging at hotels/AirBnB’s. I do a lot of drivng for work and play, but I rarely do more than 500 miles a day and the odd time I would, I could limp it along on gas. If I could start the day with a full charge and a full tank, this would be nearly seemless for me.

4jim
4jim
1 month ago
Reply to  Always broke

I agree. The problem is that I think for an “outdoorsy” “exploration” vehicle like they talked about at the Scout launch. A hotel with a charger every night was not the image. I usually tent off the grid on public land not even in a campground so that is my concern. How many days without charging can I go.

Always broke
Always broke
1 month ago
Reply to  4jim

Yeah, for camping type trips especially multi-day it may be an issue. I suppose it would come down to how much ground you’re covering a day and how much battery power you use at camp. My last “overlandy” type trip we only covered 50-60 miles a day, not sure of the range of this thing in dirt/off-road environments, but probably good for 2-4 days with that type of travel.

In an ideal world, I’d have 150 miles of electric and 350 of gas vs. the opposite.

4jim
4jim
1 month ago
Reply to  Always broke

I could manage without any battery power when camping. I never use a cooler and flashlight only when necessary and long away from cell range. I want enough gas/battery power to get home without charging and would like it to work from gas station to gas station all the way home on a dead battery. i am ok with 150 miles between gas stations.

6-Speed
6-Speed
1 month ago
Reply to  Always broke

From what I have read it is 150 miles electric and 350 gas for the range extended model.

Live2ski
Live2ski
1 month ago
Reply to  4jim

I-70 Green River to Salina UT is 107 miles between gas stations

Last edited 1 month ago by Live2ski
4jim
4jim
1 month ago
Reply to  Live2ski

good to know. That is why I said my record I was not claiming it to be the longest distance anyplace. just the longest I have personally experienced.

Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
1 month ago

I’m gonna say what I did yesterday. With this rear suspension design, this vehicle is intended for maximum hauling and towing capacity on paved and unpaved roads. The closer you get to a “trail”, the more problems you’re going to have.
This is just plain marketing. VW knows that most trucky buyers won’t be churning across Moab or driving straight up Devil’s Tower. But they might have a boat or two, some waverunners, snowmobiles, or the need to trailer motorcycles or hot rods.
I know from towing with my wife’s FWD Sienna that the beam axle out back kept the rear square and normal even under tongue load. The Scout is a tow rig, not a Jeep.

Last edited 1 month ago by Michael Beranek
sentinelTk
sentinelTk
1 month ago

I want to see this “straight up Devil’s Tower” attempt….

Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
1 month ago
Reply to  sentinelTk

I’m pretty sure the Cybertruck can do it! Right?

Rust Buckets
Rust Buckets
1 month ago

Except Jeeps have heavy solid rear axles…….

Solid axles are king for low speed offroading. Yes, considerable unsprung weight becomes a real problem if you’re trying to bomb down a washboarded road, but in Moab low speed rock crawling, the Scout Traveler will most likely beat out all of the competition specifically because of the flex of the solid rear axle. Certain kinds of trails, it’s a huge advantage.

122
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x