My sources tell me that school is back in session. I still remember having to go school shopping every August when I was a kid, which included stationery, clothes, shoes, and stuff like calculators. Somehow, I’ve never thought about how much this stuff costs!
I don’t have any kids, and my wife and I have decided not to move forward on that until we move into a house. For now, our “kids” are two birds and my fleet of vehicles. Anyway, Matt wrote a Morning Dump about the car parts that’ll get more expensive. He finished by asking you what you read on the Internet and where you shop for cars.
Reader Goof‘s answer was universal:
What do you read on the Internet?
Words.
Where do you shop for cars?
Earth.
Matt Sexton, however, hit hard:
Dude, last week we spent $300 on back-to-school supplies, $400 on back-to-school clothes because my daughter has grown out of all her old fall wardrobe, and the next day my wife spent $250 on a partial grocery trip for just the three of us. What on earth makes you think I’m shopping for a car anytime soon.
Wait, you spent $700 to prep just one kid for school? If you can take one report from LendingTree to be legitimate, it apparently costs something like $297,674 to raise a kid to 18 years of age. I don’t even think the collective value of all of my cars is a third of that! I can see why some folks are skipping the whole kid thing.
Jason wrote a Cold Start asking readers to figure out what the heck this piece is on an antique Aston Martin. It seems we don’t have a definitive answer yet, but the wrong ones are great. Sid Bridge:
It was pretty normal practice to reach outside and crack open a cold one on your roof-mounted bottle-opener back then. A stout lager made you a more careful driver.
Highland Green Miata:
It’s a bracket for an arm that holds out a jar of grey poupon for a car passing the other direction.
Jason also wrote about the most interesting overpriced new car at Monterey. Paul E makes me laugh:
So, they basically are doing what YouTube’s “Superfast Matt” did a few years back, fitting a Tesla drivetrain to a Jaguar Mk. IX, but with a bespoke body designed by ChatGPT.
Have a great evening, everyone!
Topshot: Lion Electric/Autopian
Yeah, kids are expensive. We’re lucky on the school supplies side since our district switched to the schools buying the supplies and the parents paying a share ($50-$60). Saves a bunch of time not having to deal with shopping.
Childcare is the real killer though (until you get to paying for college). After a few years of dealing with daycare and nannies, we went the au pair route. I estimate it ends up costing $550/week, which is a lot, but if you have multiple kids it ends up being cheaper than paying for daycare. Of course you have to have an extra bedroom, which many don’t have, and be cool with a 18-22 year old living with you, but it’s worked out well for us.
I have 1 kid in Law School and another in college for Business. I can confirm that sending kids to school is expensive. If it were not for their scholarships it would be around $90,000 a year between them, and that’s before room and board. Luckily, they are good students and got 70% of Law school covered, and a bit over 50% of the business school. It’s still a lot though.
I think the going rate for private college tuition and fees is $90K, each.
One of mine (going into HS now) is thinking about the Naval Academy and the other (same grade) is seriously thinking about the UK. I wouldn’t mind a bit if that pans out.
Oxbridge, UCL, and Imperial can mix it up with the best we have, methinks.
“Somehow, I’ve never thought about how much this stuff costs!”
You don’t have to.
When you have a youn’un you find yourself floating on the great river of hand me downs. Kids grow fast and so anything other people’s kids grow out of moves onto you. Is it new? No, so what? Kids don’t care. They might even prefer used since you won’t yell at them for wrecking it. Don’t know anyone with kids? No problem, thrift stores are full of kids stuff. Don’t have money? Charities are full of kids stuff. Don’t have room for kids stuff? Kids don’t actually need a lot of stuff. Thanks to the power of imagination they can effortlessly turn a brick or a rock into a racecar, a space ship or a submarine or all the above.
You probably need a new car seat but not much more.
Thanks, Mercedes.
To be clear: Those totals were estimates of what I’d spent, and doesn’t include what it actually cost to enroll my daughter. And yes I’m quite sure there are many here who can quote childcare expenses much higher than I have. So my comment wasn’t to diminish anyone else’s experience.
But raising a child is expensive. My daughter is nearly 12 now and many aspects have gotten simpler, which is nice. Our neighbors have four kids total, and three dogs and quite frankly I have no idea how anyone affords that.
Having said all of this, having my daughter in our lives undoubtedly made us better people and brings rewards I couldn’t possibly put a price on.
My mom hated when school time came around when I was growing up. By the time I was in like 9th grade I was already size 13 for shoes, and that alone was more difficult to find in our small town then most. I was also already wearing 2XL/3XL shirts, 38/40 waist pants….
I was definitely not cheap. My older sister was in comparison, I’d wager.
I had (still have!) the opposite problem with shoes…my feet have always been extremely narrow. As a small child, even laced-up sneakers weren’t tight enough to stay on my feet. Hand-me-downs or consignments didn’t work; my parents ended up taking me to a specialty store for shoes that fit great, but were heckin’ expensive. By the time I hit high school I was able to find some department store brands that fit, which was a relief because teenage-me was super embarrassed to go shoe shopping at Stride Rite.
I drive a $3000 BMW. If I’d stayed single, there would be a brand new ZR1 in my garage.
Based on my friend’s experience, ex-wives are more expensive than children.
I have both.
Multiples of each? My best friend has two ex’s but only one kid at least.
About to marry #3 – third time is the charm?
Seriously. When I meet someone with three ex-wives, I want to ask, “Didn’t you figure out the first time that you’re not very good at this?”
I learned my lesson the first time. Getting out cost me everything I had and everything I’m ever going to get, and it was worth it.
Now we know where your username came from. /s
He’s my best friend and I love him like a brother, but when it comes to love he’s a serial dumbass going right back to our college years. I have hopes for #3 though.
Favorite quote from A Bridge Too Far:
Scene: in Eindhoven, when the soldiers were being greeted by the locals during liberation
Lt. Col. Vandeleur: “Have you ever been liberated before?”
Col. Stout: “I got divorced twice. Does that count?”
Uhhh, I spend more than that each week in daycare. $420/week for for the younger kid and $320/week for the older kid. I can’t wait for school to start fast enough (only 2 more weeks to go) so I can at least stop pushing my foot so dang hard on the the money-into-black-hole accelerator.
the only saving grace for that expense was come tax season it was a write off. Less so these days I hear.
Childcare is crazy. I have a friend who has one kid (said kid now in college), but when kid was daycare/preschool age, his wife’s ENTIRE salary went to daycare – and she was not in retail – good paying white collar corporate job. Literally every penny. But she had no interest in staying home with the kid and foregoing her career, so that was that. Mind boggling to me – and I can’t imagine it’s gotten any better 18 years on.
When I was a kid there was always a neighbor who made a few bucks “watching kids” (Mrs. Abernathy for me, I can still picture her face and hear her southern drawl 50 years later) – but I guess that gets you arrested for running an “unlicensed daycare” these days.
I really want to know where all that money is going. Somehow it costs an entire adults salary to have one child in day care, but anyone that works there is underpaid despite caring for multiple kids.
I can see it being an expensive proposition to provide daycare. Rent a building, multiple employees (even if the pay isn’t great, salary is only part of the cost of employees), licensing costs, and the insurance costs alone have to be ruinous. Imagine the liability if one of the little dumplings gets a scratch on them with the rampant Mommy Karen’s of today?
But as with all businesses, presumably somebody is making a profit – otherwise, why bother doing it?
One of the big expenses for daycare centers is being open for hours longer than what is acceptable for a shift for a full time employee. Parents need daycare for their work day + commute time typically. These lead to hours somewhere around 7am to 6pm for a lot of these places.
A lot of the costs are unfortunately a result of inflexible employers, and commuter culture. My wife’s now former employer is demanding everyone return to an office, even those who were remote before the pandemic. Well, a lot of these people have children and are over an hour away from an office, resulting in a serious childcare panic for a lot of these people. In those situations, it’s long hours at the expensive childcare center or bust.
No doubt. You need a LOT of staff to look after a bunch of kids. Especially the really young ones.
I feel like one of the biggest things we could do to help society would be to incentivize working from home. I really don’t see the point of making thousands of people go to some central location to just stare at a screen all day – and let’s face it, that is the vast majority of white collar jobs today. “Collaboration” is largely BS, especially in big companies where the people you are collaborating with can likely be in another state. Or another country.
My wife luckily managed to find a new job that’s hybrid with flexibility for dropping the kids off and picking them up from school. We have some support from grandparents that are about to retire, but outside of that, her being available is the only way to make that work. We don’t have bussing (small city) and after school programs are super expensive. Unfortunately letting your kids walk to and from school (like our city was designed to allow) is basically not allowed anymore.
The irony is that conservatives seem to HATE the premise of people working from home as if it’s the sort of thing that allows people to be lazy, despite the reality that it brings tons of employment opportunities to the rural areas that they tend to represent. Remote work democratizes the white collar job landscape and can revitalize downtrodden markets. We need more remote work, not less.
OK boss you want me in the office? Well you get my kids too!
Oh you want to fire me for having kids? Well I have a shark of a lawyer for that.
So why don’t we talk about that WFH…
In my state, infants up to two (I think) require one caregiver per 4 infants, plus the day is typicallly 10 hours. Take the OP 420 a week x 4 / 50 hours and you get $33 an hour (assuming zero overhead). Figure 50% goes to overhead and yeah, the caregivers are getting minimum wage despite the ridiculous cost.
Yep, this is it.
There’s no practical or safe way to reduce the dependence on human labor for childcare. Therefore costs will rise over time relative to industries where productivity per labor hour can rise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect
Just like assisted living.
Not talked about enough tbh
My mother is nowhere near that point yet, but with her at 77 I feel like I have a teenager a lot of the time. Just one with her own income. Mostly.
My wife ran an unlicensed daycare for 10+ years, hanging it up just before the pandemic. It was sad how much of people’s income went towards this and she cut some of the parents excellent deals to try and help out.
We recently attended a high school graduation several states away of one of her kids and routinely see several others, so we got a decent return on our investment.
I love that you described ROI that way. That will make me smile all day. Absolutely the right way to live. (But still sad how much of people’s income goes to childcare. And people like your wife should be making much more, financially).
That is wonderful! Both that she was willing to help, and that you got to see the results.
“When I was a kid there was always a neighbor who made a few bucks “watching kids” (Mrs. Abernathy for me, I can still picture her face and hear her southern drawl 50 years later) – but I guess that gets you arrested for running an “unlicensed daycare” these days.”
I used to work with a Vietnamese guy who told me that in his very tight knit community there were a pair of ladies that ran an under-the-table daycare. What the parents didn’t know is that as soon as the last kid was dropped off in the morning the two gambling addicts would turn on the TV and take off to the local gambling den, leaving the kids to fend for themselves until it was pickup time. This happened every day.
When the parents finally caught on they refused to go to the police because of cultural reasons (This was LONG before our current regime). I dunno if the daycare shut down or not.
I am sure that happens on occasion. 99.9% of the time, it’s going to be a sweet lady like Mrs. Abenathy who looks after the kids just fine. But that doesn’t make the news.
And paying the big bucks is no guarantee of quality either – at that very high priced daycare my buddy’s kid was in, said kid managed to open a door and lead an escape of 5-6 kids out into the parking lot for 15 minutes before anybody noticed they were gone. People got fired over that.
My youngest just ended daycare and will now be in UPre-K (a lot of NY schools now have free preschool for 4 year old through the elementary schools) and I am just ecstatic. I get that there are a lot of other expenses coming as my kids get older, but a lot of those are optional (other than clothes and food lol). The year both my kids were in daycare at the same time damn near killed us.
Yep, super excited for when my daughter starts 4yr old pre-k. Prior to child care we had a decent amount of disposable income, now not so much. Can’t wait until I have money to buy dumb stuff again.
*Faints*
There was a time when my ’11 BMW was two years old, and I also bought a brand-new Fiat 500 Abarth to go with it. One of my coworkers marveled at how I could afford two new cars at the same time. I gently reminded him (he having THREE daughters approaching college age) that my BMW cost ONE year of tuition at a private college, and my Fiat ONE year at public one. The look on his face was a bit priceless.
Kids are *expensive*.
“$297,674 to raise a kid to 18” and then there’s college. Our last of 3 graduated uni in May and is “off the family payroll” with a real job. It’s like getting a huge raise.
When we were done with college and move out of our hometown, my parents since then have been living the “rich” life, traveling everywhere, renovating the kitchen and bathrooms, new furniture, new car.
That’s why all them old guys suddenly find they can afford a Corvette.
Mine are 10 and 12, so I’m deep in the thick of it myself.
And it doesn’t end after the kid graduates from college. Those student loans? Some of then intrude into the credit scores of the parents and seem to last forever.
We’ve been remarkably fortunate, although in sure it will get worse as they get older. For our elementary age kid it’s probably less than $100 for school supplies per year so far. As for clothes, we generally adhere to “buy them a little big.” So we have shirts that are initially a bit like a tent, and pants that need a belt and the ankles may need rolled up initially but it means we buy stuff about once or twice a year rather than every couple months. It also helps a favorite shirt last longer rather than dealing with the complaints.
Yeah, that back-to-school supply cost in the article seems high. For my 2nd grade daughter, completing her classroom supply list probably cost less than $50. For my 10th grade son, we probably spent less than $10. I think it was mostly some new folders and dividers. It helps that my wife and I are frugal shoppers.
There is now a service where you can pay a lump sum for a company to ship you a box with the supplies, where you pay 3x-4x the price for the convenience. We live in an upper-middle class area, so I saw a lot of those boxes being carried in to the school during orientation.
I’m 61 years old and I never had kids because I didn’t think I could afford them. Posts like these make me believe I made the right decision.
No kids will allow my wife and I to retire at 45 or earlier. Plus I don’t have to deal with noise, mess, and poop.
Shit you still got time if you’re not 45 yet lol.
Honest question: Any regrets about not having a next generation to look fondly on as you age? Plenty of good reasons for that not to be one, just curious of yours
Personally, I have one actual nephew and some best friend’s kids that I am “honorary uncle” to. It’s waaaay better to be the fun uncle than to actually have kids. Wind them up and give them back to their parents to deal with, and much, much, much cheaper, even if you spoil them rotten.
So Hell NO do I have any interest in having sprogs of my own. A cat and a slightly insane aging mother are enough responsibility for other lives in my life.
Very much the same, except I have two nieces and one nephew in addition to friends’ offspring. That’s all the kids I’ve ever wanted or needed.
I’ll probably get to retire at a reasonable age, and get to spend a lot more time and money on hobbies. 🙂
No way I would have summer and winter homes and five cars with a couple of kids on one salary and some rental income for sure.
Good ones. I’m a fan of familial, civic or other non-paid roles that raising kids won’t afford folks to do. I see this is as a calling opportunity to grow communities instead of burying deeper into professional or tv/internet/gaming time.
Totally agree. Since I don’t have kids, I was much more able than my sisters to be available to help out my parents as my dad was declining, and will be able to do the same for my mom at some point (hopefully not for a while).
Same here. I have two nieces and nephews and they’re great, but you couldn’t pay me to have kids of my own, and not just for my plethora of own reasons—I am not a “dad” type and could never even imagine being such a thing. Though I might be able to do better than a disturbing number of parents out there, that’s not a high bar, and any kid deserves better than that.
That’s the scary part isn’t it? I have experience of terrible parenting thanks to my #1 stepfather, and my brother, his kid, was actually WORSE as a parent. Definition of deadbeat dad most of the kid’s life until he got his act somewhat together – at least HIS father met every one of his court-ordered obligations after he and our mother split (but not one single bit more). I KNOW I could be a good dad, but I don’t want to.
Nah, I have zero desire to parent, don’t care about my legacy, and want to enjoy life exploring this world with my wife that I love.
I love being an uncle but love even more that they’re not mine to deal with every day.
I’m pushing that age. I just flat out never wanted them.
Yay! Another COTD! It’s been a long time.
I’m actually LOLing at the costs in Matt Sexton’s post. With one middle schooler and one high schooler, the supplies themselves were not that bad (maybe $100-$150 each), but at the rate they’re outgrowing clothes, we’re running about $400/month all year round just for them, and that’s shopping almost entirely at sales, or at discounters like Marshalls.
Family grocery bill — using coupons and buying 90% of our items on well-timed BOGO sales — is about $1,200/month. My daughter’s show choir overhead/costumes? $600. That’s a new one for us. Oh, and apparently she’s play rec soccer this fall (which pales in comparison with my “travel baseball” friends who average $5k/year on gas, hotels, and entry fees).
Sorry to overshare, but I’m always finding it adorable when people are like “I got this baby and wow diapers are expensive!”
It’s like watching someone buy their first car and complaining about $500 tires.
I am not ready for this in 10 years with mine. May have to continue using the Buy Nothing groups on FB for clothes outside of a couple special outfits 🙁
Friends who have kids in competitive dance/cheerleading is insane.
The time and expense on that shit blows my mind. And then the kids get hurt!
My kids are active but in zero sports and that’s perfect,
My daughter has just started sixth grade and yes I know it will be getting more expensive. I’m into this 12 years now so am well past “wow diapers are expensive.”
What annoys me is the list of stuff we have to supply the school with. You know what? I’d rather they just upped the cost of entry by $200 and did it themselves. And all year long there will be fundraisers of various sorts. I do want my kid to have a good school but when 75% of my property taxes are going to the school already it just feels unnecessarily endless.
Totally get it, and wasn’t trying to denigrate your situation personally, more of a general take on all the stuff people warned me about when I was complaining about diapers myself 🙂
I generally don’t do fundraisers for the PTO/PTA or for anything outside of the specific activities my kids do. But the teachers definitely make it hard with their requests for supplies that they’re otherwise buying out of their own pockets. So my estimate could easily be double if I paid more attention to all of those things…
I’m a weirdo, but I’d gladly take a 10-20% increase in property taxes if it meant teachers could stop begging, or if our supplies could be paid for.
No worries here.
If I’m being truthful, I would also gladly accept a tax bump as well, just to avoid the nickel-and-diming.
Have you experienced the end-of-year buy-your-teacher-a-gift requests? The ones that don’t sound so much like a request but a requirement? We get those for Christmas also. If I had had any sense many years ago when planning my life, I would have become a teacher.
Our schools tend to limit the supplies needed. It does seem far more efficient to have the schools buy supplies in bulk as needed. We’re in NY and while the school taxes are very high, it seems you get what you pay for.
Ah, the Show Choir Industrial Complex… It’s certainly become a weaponized sort of thing to suck more time/money from parents, for sure. I sat through many a performance by the stepkids and was very happy to have the last one graduate from high school.
I have a friend whose dream was to be a mom, yet when she finally had kids, she was shocked by the expense and stress and told me that I had been right when I had talked about it before. I’m like, WTF, this was your dream and you were this clueless? I never wanted them, but I learn through observation. I guess some people just have to touch the stove themselves. I have a pair of nieces and nephews and the amount of money on just basic stuff (never mind the private schools) that my sister and BiL spend has the eyes bug out of my head like someone overacting in a comical old horror movie.
Here’s the best part, you don’t even have their “Supply Lists” from the teachers yet; and all those clothes? You’ll likely be replacing them in two or three months, because it’s now time for winter clothes and last year’s wont fit either. It’s an every couple month thing for like 18 years.
Speaking of, I need to get my 15 year old some new pants….
Don’t have the supply lists yet? Son, we’ve been back in school for a week now!
We don’t start until next week, supply lists come from teachers tomorrow if you go to the open house.
Wow!
Something that helps A LOT, in Michigan they get free lunches and breakfast at school. My groceries runs change a lot when they are in school since I have to worry more about snacks and dinner for them. In this economy, every little thing that can help.
This makes me sad.
As the reason it’s done is due to abject poverty and children genuinely not getting adequate nutrition.
We’re in a pretty stable suburb in AL, but over the summer the library becomes the distribution point for free lunches (which is amazing). My son just started at a STEM-focused charter school in a low-income area and all their meals are free…we stopped short of saying “Wow that’s amazing” because we later realized that since so many students qualify for free lunches, they just give it to everyone. Every little bit helps. As much as our state has a reputation for poverty and “anti-poor politics,” the boots on the ground are definitely helping where they can.
My oldest is now in college, so another set of expenses. But, my youngest is starting high school in another district. Our district has had free lunches and breakfast for pretty much the whole time we have been here. Now, lunch is going to be $4 a day. An expense I was not expecting. That’s $640 a year! Awesome.