I’m in an airplane right now, soaring above the clouds, achieving a millenia-old dream of humankind, and yet all I can think about is what a sack of crap the person in front of me seems to be. Now, I’m basing this on just one solitary metric that perhaps really can’t be used to evaluate the worth of a human, but at this moment, that’s what I’m inclined – sort of literally – to do. That one metric? They’re reclining their seat back, in the economy cabin of an airplane. All the way.
Now, maybe you’ve done this yourself, and if so, I hope you’ll hear me out and not take this as an indictment of your own character, unless you happen to be the guy in front of me, in which case it is absolutely an indictment of your character. Which is garbage, you monster.
I know this topic has come up multiple times before in all sorts of online discourse, but seeing as how it is affecting me at precisely this very moment, I feel like the world can deal with one more take on this surprisingly divisive subject.
First, let’s establish what happens when you’re in an airplane seat and the person in front of you reclines their seat as much as they can. They can’t recline all that far, but that can recline enough to make a significant difference in the space and experience of the person sitting behind them. Look at this:
Look how much less room I now have compared to the seat next to me! that’s like 4 inches, measured from tray edge to tray edge. it’s a significant amount of space, and if you want to actually use that tray to eat or draw or work on a laptop or build a Lego spaceship, this distance is a big deal. It’s not like there’s much space to start with, after all.
Look, you can see just how far the seatback intrudes onto one’s space here:
The span from the edge of the reclined seat in front of me compared to the un-reclined seat in front of the person next to me is the full span of my hand, from fingertip to mid-that-meaty-part-of-the-palm-below-your-thumb.
The reclined seat also forces one’s laptop screen to be at a hard-to-see, forward-leaning angle, like this:
It sucks, all of it. And I’m short as hell! This isn’t even a legroom issue, but I imagine someone taller than me, very likely almost everyone reading this outside of a daycare, will have even more discomfort than I have.
I suppose one could recline their own seat if faced with a reclining seat in front of them, in an attempt to reclaim some of this space; I can’t, because my back is literally up against the wall:
I think reclining your seat back on a domestic flight, in economy class, is actually ethically wrong, and I’ll explain why.
Reclining one’s seat in this context isn’t something that comes free; the space isn’t magically generated from some quirk of quantum physics. It’s taken from the person behind you, without their input in the matter at all. It’s stolen space.
Now, we’re not talking about stealing living space on par with, you know, anything like Choctaw lands or something actually real, but it sucks nevertheless. And, the more you think about it, the shittier it is, because you’re still taking extra comfort at the expense of someone else.
Now, I could bitch about it and suggest there’s genuine philosophical issues at play here, or I could solve it. Which is what I’m gonna do, right now.
You see, I get that there may be times and situations where one really needs to recline; the issue comes from the unilateral taking of that space from the poor bastard stuck behind you. But what if that space was freely given? Then there’s no ethical issue! So, all we have to do is move the ability to recline one’s seat to the person behind you.
Essentially, the seat recline button should work for the seat in front of you. Yes, I get that mechanically this complicates things, but aircraft engineers are smart, they’ll figure it out.
In this setup, you have to actually ask the person behind you if it is okay for you to recline. If they agree, they push the button, and back you go. They have freely gifted you that space, and you can thank them for their generosity and relax.
If they say no, then that’s it; you can’t recline, and you just need to deal with that like an adult. I believe in you, you can do it.
I think this could solve everything!
I just did a little experiment. When the guy went to the bathroom, I pushed the button on his armrest and moved the seat back to the normal, ethical position. It feels so good. I can see my laptop screen more easily. My arms are less cramped. It’s glorious.
He’s coming back; will he recline his seat again? Let’s see! So far so good! We’re coming in for a landing, so maybe I can get away with this!
Nope. Motherfucker.
Top graphic image: depositphotos.com
I’ve never understood reclining in economy class. Business or first is fine because the seats go meaningfully closer to horizontal, but in Economy you go from an uncomfortable upright seat to an uncomfortable almost entirely upright seat.
The benefits of reclining in economy are minimal, but the effect on the person behind you is negative out of all proportion.
As such my knees are always firmly jammed into the back of the seat in front to make sure that I’m not reclined onto.
Doesn’t really matter where anyone’s seat is, my tailbone is still falling asleep within an hour and a half because god has cursed me with a body that refuses to travel by way of modern convenience.
I’d much rather take a reclining front salaryman than some snotnose toddler getting to kick the back of my seat every 25ish seconds. The guy in front of me probably deserves some rest. The kid behind me is literally Satan.
There are only two things that I can’t get onboard with Torch.
First, headlights are not where the eyes should be in anthropomorphized cars, my argument is, how would they light the road in front of them? Also, eyes higher on the head improves forward vision, which would be a benefit for a race of sentient cars, unless that have extra sensors… now that I think about it, I wonder what the movie cars would be like with the autonomous driving features we have now….
And another thing! If a human is driving the car, then and only then are headlights doubling as eye is acceptable, as in the animated Iron Giant.
The other thing is seat backs should be allowed to recline. Unless (like on spirit) seats are unmovable. I’m over 6ft tall and often take flights that last well over 12 hours and because of route cuts, sometimes fly for over 24 hours before I get back home again. I am exhausted, sore and miserable, and every inch of reclining I can get is less pressure on my bad back and more time I can sleep and do my version of time travel.
We should be upset at the manufactures who create the uncomfortable seats in the first place.
And for the ruler of Autopian, Jason deserves economy plus at least. Now I kind of feel bad for not buying a membership.
Oh, and rear amber turn signals do not look good on every car.
So what happens when you’re in Jason’s position of being stuck between another you, a person whom is concerned only with their own comfort and an immobile bulkhead? The flight is full, there’s no moving to a better seat. Do you impotently seethe at the manufactures who create the uncomfortable seats in the first place? Rage at yourself for not having plonked down $$$ for an upgrade when you had the chance? Plot ways to murder the other you who is blissfully ignoring your plight? Or do you start drinking even though its only 10:43 AM and shortly thereafter get taken down by sky marshals and thereafter spend eternity on a do not fly list?
I plot murder. It’s a great way to pass the time on a plane when you only have plastic cutlery and your shoelaces to use as weapons. It’s not so much the actual murder (garrotting, obviously, or hammering the plastic knife through their ear with your shoe) it’s the getting away with it for longer than a few seconds of shocked silence that is the challenge.
Plus plotting murder doesn’t negatively affect anyone else, so it’s a relatively considerate thing to do on a flight.
That is why they let you choose your seats. And if the flight is full and that is all that is left, choose another flight or airline if it is that important.
People are mad at their fellow customers when they should be mad at the airlines. They COULD make every seat reclining but choose not to for money. But we do it to ourselves because we will take one airline instead of another over $5.
That last sentence is the truth. Airplanes are configured the way they are based on customer buying patterns. The vast majority of people only want the cheapest possible seat they can get – so airline pack in more and more seats to bring down prices and get business.
On most airlines you can get another 6 inches of legroom for less than $100 – and people aren’t willing to pay that.
My next flight is Sunday on United. Plenty of “Economy Plus” seat available in the front of economy. No “Basic Economy” seats left behind the wing.
You can both be mad at the airlines for causing this and believe that the right thing to do as passengers subjected to this is minimize the issues caused to each other by declining to recline.
In every country except the US we’ve used technology to create rear turn signals that look red, or transparent, or black, but light up amber in that unambiguously useful way.
This fixes the aesthetic issue with amber bits of plastic tacked on to the back of your car.
Also the only cars that should have eyes in the windshield are cars that have two windshields, or maybe a split front screen. Human faces normally have a pair of eyes, not one big eye smeared across the top of their face with two pupils floating in it.
I feel personally attacked here, but have to admit you made some good points and need to rethink my philosophy.
When i flew if they reclined much I pushed it vertical. Just took a knee and the seat went right back up.
If someone wants to recline, that’s their choice because it’s their seat. You have your seat to recline or not as you see fit. I generally don’t recline my seat, since I get a window seat and a sleep leaning against the wall so I can get kinda diagonal. At 6’3″ it works pretty well. But if I am in another seat, and need to recline, and the seat won’t, I’m absolutely calling the flight attendant to ask why my seat is broken.
I’m pro-recline here, but I think it’s very situational. I may be getting the models wrong but a United 737 is only marginally comfortable to sit in when you’re reclined, the rest of the time it feels like you’re in a VW with the power seat buttons stuck in the lean forward position right before the motor burns out. Whatever Embraer model they use is simply perfect whether you want to sit upright or recline back to sleep. The surprisingly old and unexpected MD 80 or 90 I was on not too long ago was so plush and roomy it felt like being in a 80’s Cadillac. I almost wish I could have un-reclined the seat more.
The ever decreasing seat pitch is the root cause here. When I was flying in 80s seat pitch was bigger and this was less of a problem. Of course we also didn’t have laptops in 1984.
The flip side of this are the wedges sold in catalogs (remember them) to block the seat in front from reclining. At the time this was considered the height of dickishness. Apparently the folding seat back tables have turned
Something like this?
https://comfyplane.com/product/airplane-seat-stopper-prevent-recline/
Or this:
https://metro.co.uk/2025/02/02/stop-plane-seat-recliners-this-hack-divided-travellers-22448804/
Yes, same concept, slightly different execution
Flying in the 80’s also cost WAY more than it does today – a direct connection to the number of seats on the plane. Airlines offer economy seats with more seat pitch than what was available in the 80’s near the front of the plane for a small upgrade fee.
Quite possibly, one of my parents worked for an airline so we flew dirt cheap
The average domestic airline ticket in 1980 was $811 (adjusted to 2024 dollars) In 2024 it was $403 (including fees like bags)
hard disagree.
It’s the airlines fault for packing us in like sardines. Same as with abuse of overweight passengers.
And the FAA was supposed to fix this, per Congress, but is sitting on their behinds. https://viewfromthewing.com/stuck-with-the-airline-seats-that-youve-got-faa-wont-have-to-mandate-seat-size-legroom/
Also, I don’t even use my laptop on planes because there’s no room whether the seat is reclined or not. I have an iPad and/or my phone for this.
Sorry bud, you’re wrong.
The dick here is the airline bean counter who decided 3 microns of legroom was enough for anyone.
Counterpoint: EVERYONE should recline. If we all work together, it just works. I don’t give a fuck if you want to use a laptop, sorry.
Sorry, but you’re wrong. That doesn’t work. Reclining my seat gives me no more leg room. Reclining your seat in front of me takes away my leg room. It’s pretty simple. I would totally support no reclining seats in economy class.
When you ride on a Shinkansen in Japan, it is common courtesy to ask the person seated behind you if they are agreeable to you reclining your seat. I have witnessed this on many occasions. Delightful.
On an aircraft, if the seat in front does recline and intrude on your personal space, your knee can be placed into the soft back of that seat which will cause a very uncomfortable lump in the middle of that passengers back. It won’t take long for them to reduce the recline. If it does, try two knees. Passive aggressive is always more fun when two play.
The seat pitch on Shinkansen trains is long enough that reclining doesn’t impinge much on the person behind you, but it is still nice manners.
Also in Japan, ANA and JAL have 34-inch pitch in economy seats, so reclining is not such an issue. When ANA had a slightly shorter pitch, the recline kept the seat shell upright, pushed the cushion forward and only reclined the backrest, so it was the recliner’s choice to have less legroom. People bitched about them on Seat Guru, but I (a non-recliner) thought they were great.
That is a dick move. If you really need that space, pay for more.
> you have to actually ask the person behind you if it is okay for you to recline.
Requiring stressed out, potentially inebriated, uncomfortable strangers who didn’t choose to associate (e.g. through a hobby, profession, religion, or whatnot) but were collected through happenstance, and are trapped together in a box, to talk to each other, cooperate, and potentially perform altruistic tasks? That sounds like a recipe for success.
I never recline. I’m 6 feet tall and the seat is actually more uncomfortable reclined than upright. If the lower seat and the back tilted back as a unit, then I would consider it. As it is, reclining is literally a pain in the buttocks.
No, just no. I need to recline. I drive and fly supine. If I’m not canted at an angle I’m not traveling.
Like me give you an analogy: this is like telling people that they can’t turn right on red. In some places it’s not legal, but some people act like it’s illegal everywhere. Those same people would argue that nobody should have the privilege of self-determination. This is you telling me it’s not right to recline.
I’m reclining right now you barbarian.
Just thank your lucky stars I’m polite about it. People who suddenly recline, causing me to spill my Scotch and soda really get my goat, but I sloooooowly recline. That’s the ticket. No surprises.
Every seat on the aircraft should recline automatically and simultaneously when cruising altitude is reached.
Sorry but no. I don’t recline in economy because it is uncomfortable for my back
I think it really depends on the flight time and duration. If they are turning the cabin lights off and it’s dark out then reclining has to be ok. Getting the person behind you to agree to that during that time would be a headache and the public sucks. But at the same time a domestic late morning to evening flight do you really need to recline. This is one reason I try never to fly United domestically every time I regret it there is always someone reclining into you no matter what the time and some kid kicking the back of your seat.
Some of the low costs airlines like frontier don’t even recline anymore plus modern airbus fleet they try to nickle and dime you but for domestic flights it’s not that bad. And the seats must must be kick proof or resistant. It’s weird but I find the people on the smaller regional American airlines planes more pleasent then the larger routes where you are on a 737 or bigger. There really can be different cultures depending on carrier and then sub groups from that.
I know a JetBlue captain that captained the LGA to LAX red-eye route alot. It was designed with a special layout to allow for better sleep. I think it was called mint or something like that. He said that even in that configuration there was almost always some device broken by someone reclining into the device sitting on the tray table. It got worse once the thinner mac’s started popping up. I don’t think you would hurt a thinkpad so probably not a problem for people billing while flying. But still made a mess and the airline would end up covering the cost to repair or replace.
They should have a free to pick sleep or awake area in general then whatever want if you want to pick a specific seat in general.
Hear fuckin hear! I’ve been on some flights the past few years where the seats didn’t even have the option, it was great. The whole stressful social situation was raptured right out of the plane.
Your idea won’t work though, it would just make the person behind feel like an asshole for saying no. And the guy in front who presumes he has a god-given right shrink my tiny sliver of space even further would agree!
First, you get the seat you pay for, including the ability to recline, so such is life. Second, good people choose not to recline. Not really, but I choose not to recline because it doesn’t increase my comfort at all and it decreases someone else’s comfort. The real fix for this is to take 2 rows of seats out and increase the prices to make up the difference. How much could it be, $10 per ticket?
Looking at my trip I start Sunday: United Economy has 30 rows of 6 so 180 seats. Removing 2 rows is 12 seats. 12 / 180 = 7%. Round trip was $900 so removing 2 rows would increase the round trip ticket by about $60. Then most of those economy passengers would fly American, or Delta, or airline X because they have less seat pitch but a cheaper ticket.
Airlines have already solved this issue. Again – looking at my flight the first 40 seats in Economy have a 35″ seat pitch. Those that want more legroom are free to select these seats. The regular economy seats have 31 inch pitch for those that want the absolute cheapest seats. For all my flights I’m in the exit row – which means the seat in front does not recline.
See what happens when I don’t do the math? Thanks!
The big kicker is when people say we should make economy seats wider. When I have done the math nobody seems to want to pay the difference. That would be a 17% increase in price for plane I’m flying on Sunday in exchange for a seat that is 3 inches wider.
You can pry my reclining seat from my cold dead hands. 🙂
I’m very tall and I need to recline to get even a modicum of comfort. I’m going to be a little snarky here and say that I’m not sacrificing my comfort so that you can get a mobile office.
I do however look behind me and try to give a bit of warning, and lean back slowly. I hate when people suddenly lean back with all their might, crushing my kneecaps.
Oh, and never choose a seat in front of the bathroom. Also never choose a seat in front of the exit row. As you discovered, these don’t recline. I would rather go for a middle seat than one of those.
Corollary, never chose the very front row behind a bulkhead. You have no underseat space, so everything has to go in the overhead. Usually the front of the overhead has equipment, so you’re stuff is farther and you can’t access anything easily. Row 2 is the best row.
Noise cancelling headphones, music, window seat. That’s my formula.
Though, when I flew a few weeks back for 6 hours, I did not recline. International flights, YES, reclining, plus, you get movies.
If it reclines, I go all the way back as soon as I board. If they didn’t want you to recline it wouldn’t have the button. I’ve been on small planes that don’t recline on a 4 hour flight and it sucks.
What if the person reclining their seat is trying to sleep? Would it be OK then?
When leaving Rome, some father and son—these were grown-ass men—refused to sit so that we could take off because they didn’t buy tickets to sit together and the guy who was in the seat they wanted didn’t want to switch. Don’t know why the guy wouldn’t switch when it was a middle seat, but that’s his prerogative. The flight attendants told them that we were going to miss the takeoff window and it could be several hours to take off again. That didn’t work, so I stood up and threatened the both of them. The flight attendants then turned their attention to me thinking they now had a psycho to contend with (nope, just PTSD), but those two jackasses took their seats, I did the same, we took off on time, and I tipped the flight attendant pretty well. Luckily, this was pre-9/11 as I don’t think I’d get away with that now. I haven’t flown in 25 years now. I f’n hated flying then and I can’t imagine how bad it has gotten. Seems like the cattle trucks that bring the cows to the slaughterhouses.
If you haven’t flown commercial since before 9/11, you can never fly again. It was bad enough then, but it’s a completely different kind of hell now.
I flew in a Boeing Stearman about 15 years ago, but no commercial.
If you are buying the cheapest possible seat flying is worse than it was pre 9/11. Willing to pay a moderate amount more and it is better
Today a typical international fight has 5 levels of seat comfort at different prices. I personally like what United calls Premium Plus. 38 inch seat pitch, real recline, and a pop up foot rest. Last 4 trips I paid less than $200 to upgrade from an economy seat to Premium Plus.
$200? I’m cheap and can endure discomfort, but I’d gladly pay that for a longer flight.
Last trip was San Francisco to London and back. That is about an 11 hour flight +/- depending on direction and the wind speed. Well worth $200 extra each way. The time before I think I paid $150 for the upgrade between Chicago and Munich.
I fly enough that I am always in at least economy premium where reclining isn’t really an issue because everyone has a few inches of extra leg room. I still don’t usually bother reclining, there’s no position where a plane seat is comfortably so I just don’t really care. I have wide shoulders so if I work anywhere but first class I’ve just gotta use a tablet held to the side so I’m not elbowing anyone. I’m a firm believer in just being accommodating to people around me. I hate it when people block aisles for 10 minutes in the grocery store staring at canned soup or holding their phone out on speaker phone having some dipshit conversation with their SO. But what are we gonna do, most people have absolutely no concern for anyone around them in any context haha.
Yes! Absolutely this. It seems a majority of people in the world only care about themselves. It’s a sad fact of life that others have zero worries about being a jerk to everyone else.
Why do airline seats, especially in economy, recline at all? The fix is simple: do not have reclining seats anywhere but maybe the most expensive first class section. If you want to bitch that this means you can no longer recline your seat a few inches, just be thankful that standing seats aren’t here yet, because they will be.
Standing seats aren’t a thing yet and won’t be for some time because governing bodies like the FAA don’t allow it. Standings seats are something we constantly see in the concept phase but never actually become a thing. It’s not going to become a thing until the airlines can convince the relevant governing bodies to relax safety standards in search of higher profit (which is harder to do in the aerospace sector than one may cynically believe)
If I may quote Jason himself:
https://www.theautopian.com/the-threat-of-standing-seats-on-airplanes-inches-closer-to-grim-reality/
No recline is a solution that some US carriers have taken. The other option I’ve seen on international carriers is seats that recline by sliding the seat cushion forward. If you want to recline that is fine but you limit your own leg room and don’t encroach on the row behind you.