Home » Jet-Black Germans: 2000 BMW Z3 vs 2009 VW GTI

Jet-Black Germans: 2000 BMW Z3 vs 2009 VW GTI

Sbsd 11 30 2023
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Good morning, Autopians! Today we’re taking a look at things that are German, a little bit ridiculous, and dressed all in black. No, not Sprockets; there are no monkeys involved. Well, there’s a little bit of monkey business, but you’ll see what I mean when we get there.

First, though, let’s take a quick look at yesterday’s results. The expected barrage of K-car animosity showed up in the comments. Good, good – let the hate flow through you. You’re all wrong, of course, but that is your right. Not that I begrudge anyone voting for the Cutlass; it’s a fine automobile, and one I’d be proud to own. But so is the LeBaron.

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Also, I want to clarify my statements about the Cutlass’s 3.1 liter V6 engine. I meant no disrespect or ill will towards it; it’s actually a great engine. But it’s low-key great. Nobody sang its praises back when it was being stuffed under the hood of everything GM made, but in hindsight, it ended up being a reliable, durable powerplant. It’s just not something anyone can really have strong feelings about, like a Hemi or a 2JZ. It’s just sort of there. That’s all I meant.

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All right; on to ze Germans. Yes, we have another convertible today, but it’s at least a fun sporty one. And it’s up against the archetypal hot hatch, albeit in slightly diluted four-door form. Lovers of low maintenance bills, I apologize; I’ll do some Toyotas and Hondas next week to make up for it. Here we go.

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2000 BMW Z3 2.8 – $4,999

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Engine/drivetrain: 2.8 liter dual overhead cam inline 6, five-speed manual, RWD

Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA

Odometer reading: 86,000 miles

Runs/drives? Yep!

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BMW’s Z3 was introduced in 1995. Originally powered by the 1.9 liter four-cylinder from the 318i, later versions including this one were powered by an inline six. The Z3 was a successor to the Z1, a limited-production roadster most notable for its doors – they slid downward into the rocker panels to open. It was really cool, but prohibitively expensive. The Z3, a much simpler design, had regular doors.

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Or at least, it did when it left the factory. This one has since been modified with that most ostentatious of mods: the so-called “Lambo doors,” so named for their resemblance to the upward-opening doors on some Lamborghini models. These are popular among the tuner crowd, attention-seekers, and those who have to park in particularly narrow spaces. Some of these conversions can be undone easily; I don’t know if this is one of them.

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If you can look past the silly doors, and the tacked-on rear spoiler, and the pile of junk in the passenger’s footwell, this Z3 is in pretty decent shape. It has only 86,000 miles on the odometer, the paint is shiny, and the registration is up to date. We aren’t given much more information about its mechanical condition, other than the fact that it’s faster than the one James Bond drove in Goldeneye, presumably because it’s a 2.8 instead of a 1.9. It’s a weird brag to make in a Craigslist ad, but then again, Lambo doors.

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Z3s are neat little cars, sort of like Miatas on steroids. They aren’t typically this tacky, though. But they also aren’t usually this nice for this cheap. How much of what has been done to it can be undone is a mystery, and I suppose you don’t actually have to undo any of it.

2009 Volkswagen Golf GTI – $4,500

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Engine/drivetrain: Turbocharged 2.0 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, six-speed manual, FWD

Location: Carpinteria, CA

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Odometer reading: 206,000 miles

Runs/drives? Indeed

Take one run-of-the-mill economy hatchback, give it tighter suspension, bigger wheels, and an infusion of horsepower, and what do you get? A legend. Volkswagen’s GTI has been available in the US since 1983, way back in the Rabbit days. It’s gotten bigger and more powerful over the years, as well as way more complex, but VW has tried to keep the GTI true to its roots. And that includes its interior fabric.

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Not all GTI generations had plaid seats; I seem to remember the MkII switching to stripey seats, but by the time this MkV rolled around, the plaid was back, and better than ever. This generation of GTI is powered by a turbocharged 2.0 liter twincam four, putting 197 horsepower to the front wheels through a six-speed manual. Sadly, it doesn’t look like the old trademark golf-ball-styled shift knob made the jump to the six-speed.

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This GTI runs and drives well, and unlike so many of them, has remained stock except for an aftermarket touch-screen stereo. It has a lot of miles on it – over 200,000 – but this generation of Golf is nowhere near as fragile as the Mk3 and 4 were. It still has some issues, primarily water pump failures (why can’t anyone in the whole country of Germany design a decent water pump?) and ignition coils going out, but as long as you keep up on the maintenance, and keep it stock, word is that these are actually pretty reliable.

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Cosmetically, it looks good for 206,000 miles. It’s straight, shiny, and not ripped up inside. I’m sure there are some things that don’t work – it’s still a VW – and there’s a little wear and tear, but generally, it looks all right, at least in the photos.

A lot of people are afraid of German cars, after hearing countless horror stories on the internet, but they really are great cars to drive, and they’re not really unreliable – just particular. When the maintenance schedule says you need to do something, you need to do it, not postpone it until something acts up. Otherwise, they will bite you in the ass, and if you can’t tackle the resulting repairs yourself, you will pay someone else, dearly. But learn to live with them on their own terms, and these cars will reward you with excellent handling, and a steadiness and surefootedness on the road that has to be felt to be believed. So what’ll it be: the roadster with the questionable modifications, or the hot hatch with the cool upholstery?

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(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)

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Noodles Gargamel
Noodles Gargamel
5 months ago

Never driven a Z3 but had a Mk5 GTI, so totally the VW for me. Besides, those Lambo doors? Eurgh.

TOSSABL
TOSSABL
5 months ago

The BMW ad has no pictures of the motor. And says ‘the odometer reads 86,000 miles’. I have to wonder about that wording.

edit: I know that 80s VDO odometers were bad about breaking a gear if you tried to reset the trip odometer while moving. Hmmm

Last edited 5 months ago by TOSSABL
ProudLuddite
ProudLuddite
5 months ago

I was going to go with the Z3, but between the Lambo doors and a seller who can’t be bothered to take his crap out of the interior before snapping pics I am quite sure this is not the Z3 for me. Volkswagen it is, maybe I could get used to the hideous wheels, at least they are factory.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
5 months ago

I’m gonna go with the Z3 because 200,000+ mile turbo VWs are bad news.

And that BMW has a naturally aspirated inline 6 with no DI. Plus the mileage is relatively low.

So with that, I’ll overlook the stupid doors and go with the BMW.

Squirrelmaster
Squirrelmaster
5 months ago

Stupid doors or high-mileage, unreliable VW. Time to find my magic 8-ball and find out which poor choice fate would have me go with.

Shakes magic 8-ball.

“Better not tell you now”

Shakes magic 8-ball again.

“Outlook not so good”

Well played magic 8-ball. Well played…

Last edited 5 months ago by Squirrelmaster
Shooting Brake
Shooting Brake
5 months ago

Umm….. no to both, I’ll just take the bus instead.

Swirl Of Embers
Swirl Of Embers
5 months ago

My wife was going to let me buy a new Z3 for my 40th birthday as a “midlife crisis” present. But I rented one for two days to check it out and discovered the damn thing slapped my head to death with air currents at freeway speeds. (I was tall enough to stick up over the windshield.) So I decided to buy a Cabriolet instead and eventually discovered plenty about VW electrical issues. Sigh.

Nonetheless, now that I’m 65, if I could get this Z3 down to about 4K, I’d be tempted to just say “fuck it,” change nothing, and just let my douche flag fly.

JumboG
JumboG
5 months ago

Try a e46 3 series vert instead. Much more headroom. I had the same problem with the Z3. I had previously had 2 e36 verts (Z3s are based on this chassis, the Z4 is based on the e46.) I tried sitting in a Z3 and a Z4 and didn’t really fit, went back to a 330ci.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
5 months ago

This jam is amplified, so just glide (glide)
And let your Douche Flag Fly…
https://genius.com/Maestro-fresh-wes-let-your-backbone-slide-lyrics

Slow Joe Crow
Slow Joe Crow
5 months ago

I was interested in the Z3 until I saw the doors. A stock or lightly modded Z3 is a good and interesting car. This one is a self-propelled bad idea so I’d rather roll the dice with a GTI, especially one with 3 pedals and plaid seats.

Cerberus
Cerberus
5 months ago

So many red flags with the Z3, though with the goofy Pep Boys lettering in the lower grille and all the other mods and text in the ad, maybe he’s just one of those delusional people who think the car is far more special than it is and it’s possible that it’s been maintained decently enough. The VW, however, is a VW and I didn’t even read the description because, even if it was mint, I’d still have to go Z3. I’d still have to research reversing the stupid doors. If not easy, then I pick neither.

Last edited 5 months ago by Cerberus
Cyko9
Cyko9
5 months ago

I went with the Z3; I’ve always thought they were nice looking (except the shoe-ting brake). There’s always the “with such questionable modifications, who knows what else it’s been through?” But we’re pretty sure what the VW has been through; 200k miles of it, too.

Myk El
Myk El
5 months ago

I think I’ll walk.

10001010
10001010
5 months ago

I was going to throw caution to the wind and vote Z3 until I saw those doors.

Jason Roth
Jason Roth
5 months ago

This would have been a slam-dunk but for those stupid doors. Obviously the GTI would be more fun than my ’19 AllTrack, but is out enough different to justify owning? Not really (although I very appreciate the upholstery). Plus that’s a lot of miles, plus that might be my least favorite generation of Golf, exterior-wise.

But those freaking doors. I could live with being a BMW guy, but I’m not sure I cold live with being an ostentatious BMW guy.

06dak
06dak
5 months ago

Sold my ’98 Z3 with 100k on it for $7800 in August, so this one seems like a good deal. Great car but wanted something different as a weekend runabout.

And that GTI isn’t one of the good ones, so makes the vote even easier.

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
5 months ago

The water pump designs are fine. They just have to stop making them out of marzipan.

MATTinMKE
MATTinMKE
5 months ago

As a former GTI owner, couldn’t vote BMW fast enough. Doors & wing be damned.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
5 months ago

Fun decent shape low mileage Z3 beats used up put away wet high mileage unreliable low speed DUBYA.

Col Lingus
Col Lingus
5 months ago

Big up vote for the Sprockets reference!
Thanks.

The Dating Game skit with Phil Hartman was killer.

Last edited 5 months ago by Col Lingus
Col Lingus
Col Lingus
5 months ago
Reply to  Col Lingus

“Und den you vould vake up vit a size 7 poop chute.”

No thanks .

Unclewolverine
Unclewolverine
5 months ago

I already own the tomorrow never dies bmw r 1200c and I’ve wanted a goldeneye Z3 for a while so auto win there for me. Plus this is a really good price for a 6 cylinder stick version, been watching them for a while and they are usually double this price.

Adam EmmKay8 GTI
Adam EmmKay8 GTI
5 months ago

When the maintenance schedule says you need to do something, you need to do it, not postpone it until something acts up. Otherwise, they will bite you in the ass, and if you can’t tackle the resulting repairs yourself, you will pay someone else, dearly.

But maintenance schedule for my GTI ( https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10199495-0001.pdf ) says it needs engine oil and filter changes every 10000 miles, and cabin air filter every 40000 miles, brake fluid every 3 years (skip), spark plugs after 80,000 miles. It is like my Wrangler.
I’d do those anyway in any car on time. What parts am I missing from replacing in German car yearly to make it work?

MATTinMKE
MATTinMKE
5 months ago

Blood sacrifice.

Turbeaux
Turbeaux
5 months ago

On my GTI, it was intake manifold every 20,000 mi

Adam EmmKay8 GTI
Adam EmmKay8 GTI
5 months ago
Reply to  Turbeaux

Ok, so there is no preventative maintenance besides engine oil, filter and cabin air filter.
THis sound like replacing broken part, and not preventing from having broken parts

World24
World24
5 months ago

I decided to go VW because just to spite the doors on the BMW.

Mr. Canoehead
Mr. Canoehead
5 months ago

odometer reads 86k miles

Sound disingenuous – what is the real mileage?

Angry Bob
Angry Bob
5 months ago
Reply to  Mr. Canoehead

Could be real, but remember 86k in BMW miles is equivalent to 300k in Honda miles. But compared to a 200k mile VW?

Clark B
Clark B
5 months ago

I had a 2009 GTI and it was a fantastic car, a lot of fun on the track too. I am familiar with that engine and platform–in fact, it’s the same platform my 2014 Sportwagen TDI rides on. The miles are definitely high…but the BMW concerns me a bit, as does any car that the owner can’t be bothered to clean out before posting pictures online. Plus, I am not a fan of Lambo doors on things that aren’t Lamborghinis. And lord knows what else may have been done to it. The GTI for me please.

Geoff Buchholz
Geoff Buchholz
5 months ago

From a powertrain standpoint, that Z3 is the one to have, but the Lambo doors are a hard pass, plus it looks exactly like the car Peter Griffin bought when he realized he didn’t “measure up” to his son.

So it’s the GTI for me. It’s pretty much the spec I’d want anyway, plus this gen was the beneficiary of what most Autopians agree is a brilliant TV ad campaign.

“Ve just dropped it like eet’s hot!”

Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
5 months ago

GTI, because it’s still a regular car and not a “premium” brand. Oh, sure, stuff’s gonna break, but I’d rather shop for VW parts than BMW parts.

Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
5 months ago

*John Cena voice*

ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?!?!

Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
5 months ago

Yes, I am. On average, VW parts will always be a bit cheaper than parts for a BMW or Mercedes. They’ll even be cheaper than the same part that goes on an Audi.
Of course, they’re not Chevy cheap, but cheap-er.

Clark B
Clark B
5 months ago

Agreed. My folks have always had at least one BMW, and I’ve always had VWs. Would definitely rather buy VW parts. Some Audi parts make nice upgrades, though.

Mercedes Streeter
Mercedes Streeter
5 months ago

*Stares at the parts we bought to keep Ski-Klasse alive.*

Yeah, I’d take my chances with paying for VW parts. Just don’t buy them from the dealer!

Boxing Pistons
Boxing Pistons
5 months ago

I once thought the same way, but that is not the case. Former VW owner here, and can confirm the “cheaper” German brand is plenty expensive and frustrating to maintain. Just like any German vehicle, it requires special tools for damn near every job. Common parts (wipers, etc) are tough to come by, and it has little quirks that just come and go without explanation.

Last edited 5 months ago by Boxing Pistons
Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
5 months ago
Reply to  Boxing Pistons

The only “special tool” problem I’ve had with a VW is the dreaded triple-square, which really isn’t all that special.

TOSSABL
TOSSABL
5 months ago

Yep: Lisle sells a set of the 3 common sizes. Had a tougher time finding the 10-sided socket to do an Eclipse clutch

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