Home » Lucky Astrology Mood Watch: Comment Of The Day

Lucky Astrology Mood Watch: Comment Of The Day

Cotd Astrooogy
ADVERTISEMENT

Steve Martin’s classic comedy album “A Wild And Crazy Guy” includes one of the best descriptions of college ever put to polyvinyl chloride. Martin studied Philosophy at Cal State Long Beach (go Dirtbags!) and succinctly compares the study of a “hard science” to the study of humanities:

“If you’re studying Geology, which is all facts, as soon as you get out of school you forget it all, but with Philosophy you remember just enough to screw you up for the rest of your life,” Martin jokes.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

This feels accurate. I double-majored in Government (the UT version of Political Science) and Cultural Geography. What I learned is valuable on occasion, especially as cars and politics become increasingly interconnected, though I have to go back to reference materials all the time. How I learned is what I treasure most. Being able to evaluate an idea, break it down, synthesize it, and communicate is the nature of almost any thinking job.

It does screw you up a bit, though, if you get a good education. I’m always analyzing everything. Or overanalyzing it, depending on who you ask.

Jason majored in Art History and argued today that it helped him develop as a human being, even if it didn’t exactly turn out to be directly useful. Many people backed up his decision, and the Liberal Arts in general, including Droid, who wrote:

ADVERTISEMENT

a university education is NOT supposed to be vocational training.
in the philosophical dimension, it is training on how to learn.
in the economic dimension, it is readily understood evidence that an individual can learn a business.

Twobox Designgineer agreed:

I agree that that is the way it should be, and that it is how it probably was largely in the past.

Grumble grumble late-stage capitolism grumble grumble.

Oh, and here’s the full Steve Martin bit:

Top photo: depositphotos.com 

Share on facebook
Facebook
Share on whatsapp
WhatsApp
Share on twitter
Twitter
Share on linkedin
LinkedIn
Share on reddit
Reddit
Subscribe
Notify of
48 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Knowonelse
Knowonelse
1 month ago

Took a lot of classes at the Community College level (3 years at two colleges) before deciding that Engineering was my thing. Went to a University for two years to gain both Mechanical and Aeronautical degrees. Being lazy I accepted an offer from a recruiter at the University for a job 800 miles away. I didn’t even know what a Manufacturing Engineer was, but that’s what I was hired as. Turned out to be a great placement for me. Did that for 20 years and while my degrees were never directly relevant, all the little stuff I learned at all three colleges including arts, history, speech, etc. were also relevant for that job. When the aerospace job faded out, I realized that I was a Technical Writer, just for the small audience of six in the shop. Been a TW for over 20 years since then. All that engineering learning comes in handy when reading and editing dense technical documents geared towards certification from the FAA. Ya just never know what in your background coms into play later in life.

Ben
Ben
1 month ago

I’m pretty sure I’ve said it here before, but possibly the most important class I took in college was Philosophy 101. It taught me so much about how to reason, and most importantly it taught me about logical fallacies, which show up so often in modern discussions that I just want to slap people. I don’t though, because most of my philosophy class was spent arguing with each other, and slapping was strongly frowned upon. 😉

Ash78
Ash78
1 month ago

Steve Martin is such a legend. I know that’s obvious, but for some reason I would have pegged this album as circa 1985. It was 1978, the year I was born.

As a standup fan, it’s kind of easy to take for granted that the form is more popular now than it’s ever been. In the span of one year, I saw Nate Bargatze go from filling a 2,000 seat theatre to an 18,000-seat arena in the same town (side note: Comedy sucks in arenas).

The very idea of just standing up there and doing these bits was still such a novelty. Yeah, I know we already had Lenny Bruce and Richard Pryor and George Carlin, but there was something about Steve’s more everyday, less edgy stuff that seemed more accessible and less “fringe” that helped move it into the mainstream.

Get Stoney
Get Stoney
1 month ago
Reply to  Ash78

Yep, times sure do change. If you go back and listen to the old Bill Cosby albums, he was damn hilarious.

Ash78
Ash78
1 month ago
Reply to  Get Stoney

The quasi-cancellation phrase now is “scandal noted” 🙂

So you can say “Bill Cosby, scandal noted, was one of the greatest comedians of all time.”

And I completely agree, forgot to mention him.

79 Burb-man
79 Burb-man
1 month ago

This is why I am drawn to the writings of Wendell Berry. One of his reoccurring themes is the dangers of over specialization of today’s workers. In the post-WWII economy most folks train in college to do a specific job and not much else, which makes them overly dependent on external forces for their most basic needs. He compares that to the pre-WWII small farm operators who really had to be a jack of all trades (vet, mechanic, carpernter, etc.) and because of that were often very independent, even if they weren’t wealthy. Most of their needs they could meet themselves and that independence did provide a personal sense of security and ownership of one’s life. Highly recommend Berry’s essay collections for those that are curious.

Ash78
Ash78
1 month ago
Reply to  79 Burb-man

Right up my alley — I have also read some stuff about how difficult the transition was for so many craftsmen to start working on assembly lines. Prior to the ideas of job rotation, basically you were taking people who did a “vertically integrated job” like building a piece of furniture and now you’re paying them to do the same repetitive task all day long.

We take it for granted now, but I can’t imagine how demoralizing that transition must have been. I’m actually interviewing for a jack-of-all-trades role right now, even though I’ve been with my employer (remotely) for 9 years…but it’s just doing the same few things over and over again. At this point, I’m willing to trade WFH for a little variety and something new.

Vetatur Fumare
Vetatur Fumare
1 month ago
Reply to  Ash78

This is not why I chose Architecture, but it ends up being why I like it – in one week I am writing technical specifications, meeting with Coop boards, arguing with DOB/LPC/MTA, dealing with vendors, writing proposals, riding scaffolds, and showing some dude how to install waterproofing. While also acting as studio supervisor. It keeps work from getting stale, but I also think I should get a damned raise.

MikeInTheWoods
MikeInTheWoods
1 month ago

Interesting Matt that my son and I were having that same conversation yesterday. About how these days college and engineering just set you on a specific track so you can pop out as a good “worker” for a corporation. He wants to do engineering to investigate, create and learn. He’s discouraged that he’ll end up designing a cupholder for a corporate cube farm company. His argument rings true to me: That internships have replaced beginner workers, so if you graduate without specific internship experience you can’t get a job since they want someone with at least 5yrs experience. Colleges now just track kids to meet corporate market needs for employees instead of teaching them how to think and create.
He’s seriously considering buying land instead and farming and engineering in his own workshop. I’d love to hear how engineers in the field relate and what they’d do if starting over again.

Alexk98
Alexk98
1 month ago
Reply to  MikeInTheWoods

I’m a Mid-Late 20’s Engineer, so ~3-6 years experience range, and I would absolutely go back and do it all over again. I went to a good school with a good reputation for their engineering program, and came out without any internship experience whatsoever and still managed to get a job, although Covid was in large parts to blame for that and made it an easy out in interviews.

There’s sort of two or three main arguments that I rely on to say why I’d do it again, and why I’d recommend it, I’m a mechanical engineer by degree/trade for reference, which is by far the most broad of the typical engineering disciplines.
1: You really learn the how and why of what it means to be an engineer. Yes school is filled with math, equations, and seemingly random scenarios, as well as topics you very may well never touch ever again, but what it really gives you is a very solid technical background, where you understand the fundamental principles of why everything works.

2: Earning potential. Yet, it’s a cliche that engineers make decent money, but it’s true. It depends on company, cost of living, and the like, but what I’ve found is that while I’ve worked at different companies who’s work I may not be extremely passionate about on my own, I find things about the work extremely interesting, but most importantly, I have enough disposable income despite student loans and the cost of living issues most face to be able to pursue my hobbies. I have the financial freedom to be able to buy broken cars on FBM at a whim, I’m looking at buying my first house right now on a single income, and I can afford to live comfortably while not having stress too much over money, so long as I keep my spending and saving in check.

3: An engineering degree does not lock you into engineering your whole life. Similar to my first point, it sets you up to be able to analyze problems, and solve them, often numerically, which has great overlap in the business world, and there are loads of business people who started out with engineering degrees. Yes of course there will be a bad job or boss or work experience along the way, that’s simply part of life and as being the low man on the corporate totem poll. Regardless of that, I have the security of a salaried job with PTO, full benefits, which in the US, having reasonably priced health insurance is massive, and I have the skills and confidence to know that I can always land on my feet eventually because I have a very marketable set of skills.

Now with that said, I have zero desire to do any sort of technical masters or doctorate, and my view of post-grad degrees is rather poor, but I got a massive amount out of my four years of undergrad. I joined a design team that was really empowering, it effectively let our small team run wild with ideas and the physical integration, which was able to give me a taste of not only leadership, but an idea of what real design work can and should be. To wrap it up, every job and path has a long list of pros and cons, but to me, the security and benefits of a more corporate engineering job are such that even if I have a few bad days, weeks, or months at a job (and I’ve had many of each so far, some recent) I can be confident that I can find a way out of that situation, and I have what I need to enjoy my life outside of work without too much worry, which most people my age unfortunately cannot say.

MikeInTheWoods
MikeInTheWoods
30 days ago
Reply to  Alexk98

This was very informative and helpful. Thanks for the insight. He completed a freshman year at Perdue (got a 3.0), hated being just a number in a lecture hall, taught by an assistant. So now he’s taking some time here at home, and hopefully transferring to some northeast school where it’s not flat and where he’s not just a number paying huge tuition to eat off of disposable paper plates and plasticware in a cafeteria.

Pupmeow
Pupmeow
1 month ago
Reply to  MikeInTheWoods

It sounds like he wants to be a scientist, no? If he’s an engineer he will end up designing a cupholder. But honestly, there’s value and interest in designing anything, so that might not be as bad as it sounds.

MikeInTheWoods
MikeInTheWoods
30 days ago
Reply to  Pupmeow

He basically would like to be a modern DaVinci, a little of this, a little of that. Curious about everything.

Cayde-6
Cayde-6
1 month ago
Reply to  MikeInTheWoods

I think your son has a wildly inaccurate view of the reality of engineering and the engineering job market.

Also, I think your son has wildly inaccurate view of the amount of time and money that is involved in farming, and how little one gets out of it.

Last edited 1 month ago by Cayde-6
Hugh Crawford
Hugh Crawford
1 month ago
Reply to  Cayde-6

My grandfather had an engineering degree from Cal Tech and briefly taught there, and my grandmother was one of the first architects in the state of California, but then the depression happened and he ended up being a farmer, so there.

MikeInTheWoods
MikeInTheWoods
30 days ago
Reply to  Cayde-6

He was really discouraged by his freshman year at Perdue, so he withdrew and is going to transfer somewhere with an actual personality. Where he can be something other than a number. He didn’t mean actual farming for profit, just homestead gardening to provide some veggies. Basically an f-u lifestyle where he wouldn’t be beholden to anyone. He doesn’t want to end up working in a cube farm for 40 hours per week to pay a huge mortgage with large car payments. He’s quite frugal with his 2000 MK4 Jetta 1.8t. It may smell like crayons, but it’s good on gas and fun and has no screens.

Hugh Crawford
Hugh Crawford
1 month ago

I have a MFA in post studio art*.
Fortunately I learned to program computers in assembly language to make graphics, videos and music, and then the web happened and having an art degree and knowing programming meant that people with no knowledge of wit would throw money at you.

Later on, people would misread MFA as MBA and I’d keep my mouth shut. Like the California Institute of the Arts was giving out MBAs.
Saying I had a Masters degree from the CIA was always fun too.

Learning how to figure stuff out, and knowing what stuff needs to be figured out is all that’s important.

For example “why does yellow text on a blue background look so weird” just takes a bunch of optics and neuroscience and some reading of Edwin Land and you have got it. Then you need some chemistry and physics to understand how blue paint works. (Yellow paint is trivial) That was my approach to studying art.

Really growing up on a farm was just as important. You either figure out how to improvise solutions to problems, or you literally loose the farm.

*As far as I can figure it out it’s a degree in having lunch with John Baldessari

Vetatur Fumare
Vetatur Fumare
1 month ago
Reply to  Hugh Crawford

Yellow text on a blue background looks weird? Please elucidate.

Hugh Crawford
Hugh Crawford
1 month ago
Reply to  Vetatur Fumare

The human eye has a single lens, so it focuses different colors of light at different distances. This is what is called chromatic aberration. There are two kinds of chromatic aberration, longitudinal and lateral.

Lateral chromatic aberration is the change in magnification for different wavelengths of light, causing color fringing at the edges of an image. You see this in photographs taken with older simple lenses, and sometimes as an effect in movies. In the human visual system, the brain compensates for it and it’s invisible. Also. Since the human visual system only has higher resolution if the center of the eye and the brain builds the image of the outside world by moving the eyes what’s going on in the periphery vision in terms of color isn’t much of an issue. Opinions conflict on which reason you don’t notice. Lateral chromatic aberration, but it doesn’t make any difference for this argument because we’re talking about longitudinal chromatic aberration..

Longitudinal chromatic aberration” refers to the change in focal point for different wavelengths, meaning different colors focus at slightly different distances. The effect of this is that when your eyes focus on something that is blue or green. It focuses at a different distance than something that is red or yellow.. It is physically impossible for the eye to focus exactly on a yellow and a blue object at the same distance at the same time..
Red and green have a similar problem, but ( and I’m a little fuzzy on this since it’s been 50 years since I studied this) since yellow is picked up by both the red and green receptors in the eye it confuses things even more.

All this is getting dangerously close to the whole “magenta is not a color, but is a social construct” and the “did the ancient Greeks see blue?” arguments.

Hugh Crawford
Hugh Crawford
1 month ago
Reply to  Hugh Crawford

Oh, almost forgot, colors that are 180 degrees out of phase on the color wheel do that too, but the reasons why are way too complicated.

Vetatur Fumare
Vetatur Fumare
28 days ago
Reply to  Hugh Crawford

This is great; I shall be pondering this as I sail the wine-dark seas on my way home.

Hugh Crawford
Hugh Crawford
27 days ago
Reply to  Vetatur Fumare

Yeah, be careful when you get there if they’re a bunch of strange men hanging around and nobody seems to recognize you.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
1 month ago

“a university education is NOT supposed to be vocational training.
in the philosophical dimension, it is training on how to learn.”

And yet when you graduate in the sciences you are expected to know how to DO things, like RIGHT NOW!

No on the job training for you, you hit the ground running!

Pupmeow
Pupmeow
1 month ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

This is funny because I have an engineering degree but went on to law school. First year lawyers (especially in big law firms) aren’t expected to know how to do ANYTHING (which is good b/c they don’t know how to).

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
1 month ago
Reply to  Pupmeow

Whereas scientists and engineers are expected to take the overpromised drug fueled fever dreams of their leadership and turn it into a lucrative reality, preferably as expendable contractors on mid five figure salaries with zero benefits and lots of unpaid overtime.

Pupmeow
Pupmeow
1 month ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

Haha, I’ve worked in-house at manufacturing companies for over 10 years and I 100% understand what you are talking about. My job is definitely cushier than that.

It took me ~15 years to pay off $300K in student debt, so I consider that the sacrifice I had to make for a more comfortable career (so far, anyway).

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
1 month ago
Reply to  Pupmeow

$300k in student debt?!

OOF!!

1978fiatspyderfan
1978fiatspyderfan
1 month ago

I agree a university education is not vocational training but how to learn in an economic dimension

Or in other words if you study the arts and humanities in the university setting after graduation you realize you have learned nothing useful and will never make a living wage.

I don't hate manual transmissions
I don't hate manual transmissions
1 month ago

Years ago I worked with a guy whose fiance spent $200k on a music degree. She was looking at a career as a music teacher. They were basically going to have to pay off a mortgage before being able to get a mortgage.

Harvey Park Bench
Harvey Park Bench
1 month ago

That’s a problem with the american educational system, not a problem with learning music as an avocation, though.

I don't hate manual transmissions
I don't hate manual transmissions
1 month ago

Definitely a problem with the education system – suckering people into paying way too much for an entry into a low paying career field – but, yes, agreed: we’re all better off with the artists and musicians in the world. It would be a much less enjoyable existence without them.

Vee
Vee
1 month ago

My understanding of advanced schooling is that it’s supposed to teach you scheduling, critical thinking, and discipline. You have to teach yourself how to research because the professor or their aide won’t do it for you unlike highschool. You have to teach yourself how to keep to a schedule because your parents aren’t there to yell at you and flip your mattress over before you’re late. You have to teach yourself the tells for when the professor is bullshitting or fluffing the homework because otherwise you risk spending time and effort on stuff that doesn’t matter for the grade.

Learning whatever your major is actually the reward and not the goal. The goal is getting a controlled environment to learn how to be an adult without majorly fucking up your life. The independent living version of having the bumpers up at the bowling alley.

Crank Shaft
Crank Shaft
1 month ago

I learned a very valuable lesson in college. How to fail. I learned it well and kept going back for years to re-learn it over and over. I never even got to the point of declaring a major and I’m not sure I even ever passed English 101. I still use the skills I learned to this day both vocationally and philosophically. While my path through college was not particularly successful and I have no letters after my name, I still cherish the experience and recommend it to anyone who doesn’t have to take a loan out to do so. If you follow my path, you may even learn to fail better than I have, which would take some serious effort on your part, but it can be done. I’m living proof than you too can fail hard.

I should note that I am full on envious of anyone and everyone who could keep their shit together well enough to succeed where I absolutely have not. Pat yourselves on the back for a job well done.

Harvey Park Bench
Harvey Park Bench
1 month ago
Reply to  Crank Shaft

… Perhaps. A college education isn’t for everyone, any more than a trade isn’t for everyone. Society is missing out on great plumbers/carpenters/etc who are spending time and money getting liberal educations, and missing out on scientists/writers/etc who are in trade schools.

Don’t beat yourself up over not getting a college degree. I have two MAs and dropped out of a PhD program to pay the bills. I can tell you with certainty that getting a PhD usually means you’re an expert in a subject nobody else cares about, and you’re really good at focusing on that and nothing else for 3 years. Being brilliant is neither necessary nor sufficient to getting a PhD.

And while I was in nerd school, I didn’t learn the arts or how to build stairs out of oak, which I regret.

Last edited 1 month ago by Harvey Park Bench
Vetatur Fumare
Vetatur Fumare
1 month ago

My brother-in-law has been working on his Ph.D for over a decade now (I’d ask but it’s a touchy subject). Aside from being a procrastinator, I think he genuinely fears what he will be expected to do if he ever gets his s**t together and completes his doctorate. Meanwhile he’s making pocket money as an adjunct.

Phuzz
Phuzz
1 month ago
Reply to  Crank Shaft

The US system seems a bit different compared to the UK system where if/when you go to university at 18-19, you pick a subject at the start (eg physics), and that’s your degree and that’s all you study. You might get a choice of which modules to do, but it’s just different parts of the same subject (eg astronomy or medical physics). It’s roughly similar in Europe as well I think.
If you change your mind and decide you’d prefer to study something else, you basically have to start at the beginning again (and take on more years of student loans, so you can only do this if you have rich and forgiving parents).

In terms of how ‘useful’ it is, it’s similar across the board though. My physics degree isn’t much practical use in my IT job, but the ‘transferable skills’, of knowing how to learn and research by myself, have been very useful

Last edited 1 month ago by Phuzz
Vetatur Fumare
Vetatur Fumare
1 month ago
Reply to  Phuzz

Yeah, but a British 18-year-old who passed their A-levels already knows all the other things we have to learn in American higher education. It’s mostly remedial, to make up for the failures of high schools and the absence of a national curriculum.

AC2DE
AC2DE
28 days ago
Reply to  Crank Shaft

At least you gave it a go. I knew that I wouldn’t succeed in that environment, and resisted it for a year and a half, much to my family’s disappointment. I later decided instead to join the US Army, where I ended up for 20 years. It made up for the missing 4 years of college… Mostly.

Mike Harrell
Mike Harrell
1 month ago

If you’re studying Geology, which is all facts…

I… yes, sure. Facts. That definitely sounds like a reasonable description of my field.

I don't hate manual transmissions
I don't hate manual transmissions
1 month ago
Reply to  Mike Harrell

Geology rocks, but geography is where it’s at. (Shamelessly quoting a picture of a sign seen on the internet.)

Guido Sarducci
Guido Sarducci
1 month ago

Geology “rocks”. Rocks, indeed.

Rollin Hand
Rollin Hand
1 month ago
Reply to  Guido Sarducci

I went to Carleton University in Ottawa (Before I came to Carleton, I couldn’t even spell ‘student.’ Now I is one!). I am sure this happened in other schools too, but the Geology students all had “Carleton Rocks” on their school jackets.

I found university to be great training on how to think, how to gather and synthesize information, and how to write essays in a short period of time (my record was starting a 10-page paper three hours before it was due, and having time to get dinner before handing it in. Got an A-).

Then I went to Algonquin College to learn how to apply the theories. Worked out well so far.

Pupmeow
Pupmeow
1 month ago
Reply to  Mike Harrell

I get your comment. It’s no more about “facts” than any other science.

That said, I’ve been reading a lot of popular science books about geology and was still surprised at how much we DON’T know.

Get Stoney
Get Stoney
1 month ago

What College taught me (D-1 school w/ a few toppest of the notch programs) was that the actual material mattered very little.

What matters is that the person in power (the Prof or whomever) thinks is important. If you can mirror that interest, you win. If you sidetrack, you fail. The value of the material emphasized is arbitrary.

Sure, there has to be a basis in the general roots of a concept, but that’s all. It falls on the whims of the “leader”.

So, ya know, how to be good at your job regardless of talent.

TOSSABL
TOSSABL
1 month ago
Reply to  Get Stoney

I think I read in a Heinlein book decades ago that studying the professor was the biggest element of being successful in school. Realized years later that I had unconsciously internalized that, and it has helped me quite a bit in my multiple careers

Squirrelmaster
Squirrelmaster
1 month ago

Well, that makes me more appreciative of my college engineering program. I had plenty of hands-on training in college labs that, while perhaps not necessarily vocational training, were directly applicable to my professional life. What I didn’t have was classes on how to interact with non-engineer humans, which would definitely have helped me over the last few decades.

Droid
Droid
1 month ago
Reply to  Squirrelmaster

i too was educated as an engineer. i agree that a foreign language class or two would have helped…

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
1 month ago
Reply to  Droid

As a scientist I found engineer speak mostly incomprehensible gibberish, even on the very same subject (thermodynamics).

48
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x