No matter what you think of EVs, you have to admit they’ve been a net positive for the industry – and I don’t mean in terms of emissions-slashing. EVs have made a real dent in the fundamentals of how the car world functions, sending ripples throughout every level of the design, development, production, and sales processes.
My colleague Matt Hardigree asked everyone at the end of today’s Morning Dump about an unexpected piece of good news that came out of the G8 ST truck amid the 2008 financial crisis. As Drive By Commuter points out, EVs were able to deliver some damn impressive metrics when it comes to ride comfort, acceleration, and smoothness, forcing other automakers to pay attention:
Best thing to happen is electric vehicles going mainstream. It’s made all cars step up their game for power, efficiency and features.
When you see a giant screen on your next car’s dashboard, always remember: The Tesla Model S started that trend all the way back in 2012. That was one of many trends that electric cars pioneered.
Also from The Morning Dump, Mrbrown89 reminded me of a brand that would be perfect to lead the tiny car revolution in the U.S.:
I hope Suzuki can come back to the US if regulations allow it, they are the experts on “tiny” cars that are fun and look good. Maybe they can partnership with Mitsubishi and use their footprint.
The moment a modern Suzuki Jimny becomes legal for import and purchase in America, I’m picking one up (so long as it has a manual transmission).
My colleague Thomas Hundal wrote about the strange state of affairs with regard to the manual second-generation Porsche Cayenne market. Remember when one sold for $125,000 earlier this year? Well, another one sold for $70,000 earlier today. And I really don’t know why people are paying this much for these cars. For the money, you can get something so much better, as Spikedlemon points out:
What’s resale of a CTS-V wagon with a manual these days?
Counterpoint: EV’s were the worst thing to happen to the car industry. Ever since the Tesla Model S was launched, manufacturers have been increasingly focused on EV’s as opposed to cars that people actually want as governments around the world have been trying to push them down people’s throats.
Yeah, no interest in buying an obsolete drive train that only runs on a pretty constrained resource with wild price fluctuations.
Back when Pintos were being rear-ended and spontaneously combusting, I joked about Pinto wagons doubling as the “Little Hearse on the Prairie” and the crematorium. It went over the heads of my not as car literate friends, but I thought it was pretty funny.
The widespread availability of cheap used EVs is amazing too. I’ve been into the idea of EVs since the GM EV1 days. They used to be unobtainable or very expensive. Now, there are at least 10 different models of used EVs that can be purchased in good condition for under $20k.
The sheer number of modern cars, the interiors awash in ugly, badly-functioning LCD screens and terrible UIs? They argue differently.
Every time you read of processor-rich modern cars afflicted with “new software updates”, “subscription service fees” and “in car advertising”? Sure. Thank Tesla.
I just bought a “mainstream EV” yesterday and it’s pretty great. I picked up a 2022 Bolt EUV launch edition. I’ve driven so much of what is out there for EV’s through our utility company EV drive events, and, while the EUV is a bit more basic, it’s a very good car. It’s the car that I was recommending to anyone who would listen for years (spoiler alert… noone listened, including my sister who bought a Model Y) and I finally took my own advice. It had it’s battery replaced under the recall 10,000 miles ago so I have 90,000 miles and 6 years of battery warranty left, but still picked this up for 40% of its original MSRP. It’s zippy, but not stupid fast, comfortable, well packaged, efficient, and has all the goodies that I need, plus Supercruise. It’s our first full EV, but I had a 14 Volt and still have a 21 330e, so I have experience with PHEVs. .
The Bolt is so much closer to the EV we need and I’m glad it’s coming back with a lower price and the improvements that they need it to have (like DCFC improving from 55kw to 150kw speeds).
Anyway, I will continue to recommend the Bolt to people as a really affordable used car that still has a ton of warranty coverage, and now I can show them that I take my own advice.
Importing a Jimny is definitely something I think about doing someday! It’s probably the closest thing to my beloved Geo Tracker, so if I ever have to retire it, a Jimny could be a way to replace it.
Plus, Canada only has the 15-year rule, so you can get ones with plenty of life left!
(Just checked, and there’s lots of them for sale in Canada around the $10,000 CAD range, which isn’t too crazy. Definitely more concentrated on the west coast, though)
That’s not a good thing in the slightest. If anything, it’s the worst thing to happen to modern car design and safety, period, not even a contest.
I feel like the screen thing is not a positive. I can kind of see the benefits for the center stack setup, until of course you have to wait until initialization to even adjust the temperature controls. and of course when they need updates and simply fail to work. This is doubly problematic when the gage cluster is swapped to a screen and gages are faked. Ask Ram about this and the issue with inop gages.
Finally, the Tesla appliance looks kinda terrible, like someone taped a few tablets to a cross beam and said “Voila”! Ford Mustang followed suit
My take on screens, as with most things, is they aren’t bad in moderation. A well shrouded (for glare), roughly double-DIN sized screen to display navigation and entertainment only is pretty good (NOTE: this is only in reference to nav and audio controls, other vehicle controls and gages should be actual switches and gages. Also screens should be able to go full dark with one touch). I’m also a proponent of systems that effectively screen mirror your phone (Android Auto/ CarPlay) for simple future-proofing. Let the phone do the computing and network communication, it’s almost always going to be significantly newer than the car. I know some people have strong feelings to the contrary on AA/CP, that’s a different conversation and I won’t discuss further here so don’t bother.
As far as mainstreaming EVs; personal feelings about him aside, I have to give Elon credit. When the Model S was released it was a stroke of brilliance. Prior attempts at EVs seemed to be aiming at the small, efficient, normally budget-friendly end of the car market with one problem; the costs inherent to EVs pushed them well out of that segment. Tesla released a car aimed at the luxury sedan market who’s buyers were willing to pay the added cost from it being an EV just for the novelty (it’s a cost they were used to just for some options packages in competitors). Add the fact that it was a genuinely handsome car instead of trying to look “futuristic” just made it that much better, if only there were a lesson to be learned here…
If you mean Tesla is to blame for every other manufacturer putting the largest screen possible in their cars, then yes I’m on board.
Having screens that were the size of the my childhood TV be the centerpiece of the user experience in modern cars is not a net good thing. They are distracting, often buggy and don’t make the car safer or easier to operate; often quite the opposite. I firmly believe Tesla went with the screen option only to avoid having to make the myriad of switches, dials and other haptic controls that are superior for interacting with simple car systems like the A/C that add cost to the car building process. While I admire their cost cutting in order to enable making and selling of EV’s profitable at a time when no one thought it was possible, their influence on the rest of the industry was bad for interior car design. As most manufacturers are finding out and as some former Tesla owners have said, we want dials and switches.
As a dual citizen, I almost think about the legal matter of buying one in Mexico and driving it here (Suzuki Jimny). Could I just excuse myself at the border that I live in both countries kind of like a snowbird?
Thank you for COTD!
Modern cars are very successful at one thing – Driving up the value of older, superior models.
As for battery cars, I’ve been in a full tilt Tesla.
While it’s very well controlled, it’s obvious how massive the weight is.
Feels like a high performance truck, only it’s not.
I have a mundane four cylinder car.
It has enough torque to spin the tires.
Electric torque without gearing is a leap backwards.
Can they at least make new cars look pleasant?
I was reading OG 2012 Model S reviews the other day. Pretty crazy to read them and then consider what the rest of the automotive space looked like back then.
Also incredible how long that BIW has lasted. I think it still looks quite good tbh.
I wish I had the cash to try to start a Kei car company. But I’m not a billionaire.
Imagine the sort of affordable high-performance sports cars built for enthusiasts that could also be done relatively cheap, if you can get enough buyers for the production volume needed to make that possible.
You can do a lot with 63 horsepower when you only have to transport one person and a significant amount of carry-on items. And you can reliably get 63 horsepower from way less than 660cc, nevermind the design options electric powertrains allow. For a single person, a sub-200 kg ultra-aerodynamic enclosed vehicle, whether with 3 or 4 wheels, would be totally nuts with 63 horsepower, and you can do that with cheap Chinese e-bike parts. I have the resources to do something like this as a one-off for myself, but not produce them affordably. Currently working on something lighter and less powerful as a proof of concept.
If I could produce Kei cars that met whatever standards will exist, I’d aim for making the following below,
The platform should be designed to accommodate FWD, RWD, and AWD. This platform will accommodate a “sports car”, a “sedan/hatchback”, a “mini-truck”, and a “micro-SUV”, all built on the same Kei car platform, all dealing with its compromises because the platform is built to be a sports car first, so it’s narrow.
Share as many parts between all of the vehicles as possible. Make them easily interchangeable and accessed by DIY mechanics.
63 horsepower is the starting point. All models will have this drive system available as a base, and even if upgraded, could go back to this drive system as a swap-in fit. All tech/screens will be kept to a minimum, and all models will be repairable with a basic tool set and all software open-source. There will be no expansive LED lighting assembles on these vehicles, and easily swappable standardized parts will be used,
63 horsepower in an electric two-seater “sports car” similar in spirit to the 2002 Suzuki Hayabusa Sport, would be perfectly adequate for use on US highways, even fun. So I’ll start describing this “sports car”. Imagine a more streamlined version of the Hayabusa Sport, with a Cd beating or at least matching the VW XL1 but with a much smaller frontal area than the XL1, and a smallish 25 kWh battery weighing ~120 kg assembled in its fireproof box. This thing is sized about like a Lotus 7. You could run an electric motor, on the order of ~20 kg worth of motor+controller, to reliably get 63 horsepower, the Japanese limit for Kei cars. You might have the car under 700 kg while very mechanically stoutly built to handle far more power and weight than this, able to do 0-60 mph ~9 seconds, cruise 120+ mph without a governor(it could be governed at a lower speed for the Japanese Kei Car market), and corner like a Lotus even if it has cheap suspension, because it will follow the simplify, then add lightness formula. That could be a very basic model of economy car sold for cheap in disguise as a sports car with looks like a sports car and with driving dynamics like a sports car, much like a Miata or MR2 but smaller. And it MIGHT approach 200 miles range at 70 mph on the highway on a good day, and get about 70 miles range in track usage, with this base 25 kWh pack.
Get rid of the 63 horsepower limit that Kei cars had in Japan, and you’ve got the platform for something monstrous, and not much more expensive to produce, with the same cornering characteristics and range. The platform can be designed so that all of these upgrades are a drop-in fit. Getting 300 horses out of one of three Model S PLAID motors is possible right now, so a more powerful motor to replace the 63 horsepower setup of about 300 peak horsepower and < 50kg weight is the next step, and the car could be designed so that one of these motors and inverters could be swapped in with basic tools. The car will see no significant weight increase. Proper selection of battery will assure it is a drop-in fit for the basic model, without having to change the battery, and the manufacturer could offer it as an aftermarket upgrade, or if the law is permissible enough in the USA they may even be able to sell the car outfitted with this upgrade under a name addendum and/or change of trim. Now you’ve got a “performance” version of the car, a hypercar killer on the same platform as the entry level car. And it’s a “Kei Car”, or at least was in the event the government doesn’t accept it as such. In volume, the parts per unit required for this upgrade would be shockingly inexpensive. The 25 kWh battery of the base model will have already been designed to handle this extra power as a drop-in upgrade.
A heavier trim of the “performance” version could add more battery in order to add more range, maybe 40 kWh total pack size a mass increase to 800 kg, and a slight performance reduction from the 25 kWh “Performance” version due to the added mass. Range would approach 300 miles highway.
The top tier version of this vehicle would have a straight-up Model S PLAID full drive system and AWD, limited to what the aforementioned 40 kWh battery is capable of. It will be 500+ horsepower. Not sure what to call this trim, but something phallic would work well. This would probably be decently expensive, but I would want to make it available regardless. Maybe this version weighs in around 1,000kg from brake, wheel, and suspension upgrades, but it’s got a Model S PLAID drive system and depending on battery selection, it might even be able to use ALL of that drive system’s capability, but even 500-600 horsepower of it would still be more than enough to justify its existence.
Using that same platform as all-4 trims of “sports car”, the next car to make is a sub-compact FWD or RWD sedan(similar shape to GM Precept) or hatchback(Similar shape to Mercedes Bionic) with it, called “sedan/hatchback”, able to seat 4 with at least the comfort of a Mitsubishi iMIEV. 25 kWh standard, can go up to 40 kWh. The base 63 horsepower version is not a performance vehicle and will have like a 12 second 0-60 but it will also cruise 110+ mph on flat ground. It is a streamliner made to be economical to purchase and operate. With 40 kWh, you might approach 300 miles range at a steady 70 mph without a lot of stop and go, 150 miles on a really bad day of inclement weather and running the heater. The 40 kWh trim would weigh around 1,000 kg.
BUT, inexpensively offer the same upgrades the sports car gets as aftermarket, and/or sell hot-rodded versions of the “sedan/hatchback” premade from manufacturer at a higher prices and trims.
The 300 horsepower FWD or RWD version of the “sedan/hatchback” is not the end. Add a transfer case and rear differential, and/or upgrade to the PLAID drive system, and now you have an AWD vehicle ready to party on a Rally, at least a short one(it is still the same 25 or 40 kWh battery after all and will be rapidly drained in racing conditions).
Then offer “microvan” and “mini-truck” versions of the above designed with options available as platform constraints dictate. The “microvan” can be streamlined as well(Shape it like a Renault Vesta II), and maybe able to serve as a microcamper if not a people carrier of 6. The “mini-truck” might look like a Lotus Europa except with a truck bed, and will still get an honest 150+ mile highway range with a Cd around 0.28-0.3, the “microvan” approaching 250 miles range with 40 kWh, and each could weigh under 1,200 kg. The most basic trim of which could be Kei vehicles with 63 horsepower, with various performance/range trims.
The last of those might be a mini-SUV. It will be the least efficient of them, as aerodynamics is not the focus of this, but it will be designed to be a competent off-roader in the vein of a Suzuki Sidekick or Jimny but a bit smaller with AWD except with a lower center of gravity thanks to the battery and motor being so low. With 40 kWh, you could still get 120+ miles highway range, and maybe a similar amount offroading at low speeds, with a ~1,200 kg weight. Various seat configurations could seat between 2 and 4 people. It would come standard with the 63 horsepower motor, with various upgrades available just as with the other models as constraints allow.
This will also promote a DIY repair culture. Trashed vehicles will have drive systems and mission-critical parts readily swappable to other vehicles as upgrades and/or repairs, and if you configure even the base level of battery properly, a motor upgrade can be made to be a safe, sensible, drop-in fit done on the cheap, and a car might be able to be brought back to life with salvaged battery modules stripped from other vehicles with identical pack configurations whether 25 kWh or 40 kWh. And enthusiasts could take base models and swap in salvaged parts to upgrade their own vehicle. And this can be designed such that all of the vehicles built on the platform could use the 63 horsepower motor/inverter in a pinch no matter how much they’ve been upgraded, and thus if designed correctly all of them would be available for sale in Japan as base model Kei cars in the strict legal sense.
As the VW Beetle has proven, having replacement parts always readily and cheaply available is what keeps them on the road. In the quest to optimize everything by committee while saturating it in tech, coupled with the modern regulatory environment, the automakers have lost the ability and will to fight planned obsolescence. Having a Kei car category that isn’t so heavily restricted opens up a LOT of possibilities in light of EV technology.
Both Aptera and Elio have been trying to get off the ground for a decade or more.
I’m not as fond of the Elio as I am the Aptera from a design perspective. If a vehicle with the Aptera’s aerodynamics and the Elio’s simplicity were built, that would be ideal.
I probably didn’t make my point clear. What I was trying to say was that if people with capital to invest thought that either of those cars was going to be profitable, the companies would have already obtained the capital to get off the ground.
There are lots of people with capital that don’t want projects like this to get off the ground. That is in part why the current regulatory environment pertaining to cars is so stifling. The cars will be profitable at the right price and volume, the problem is that they will have people spending less money on operating these cars than the alternative, and those selling high-margin vehicles, raking in money on maintenance/repair costs, or selling fuel for them aren’t fond of the idea of less money going to themselves. If regulations weren’t so expensive to comply with, Aptera/Elio may not have had to start with a 3-wheeler in effort to get around them.
There are people with capital, such as Sandy Munroe, who see the potential of the Aptera and have invested heavily.
I’ve said it for a long time now and I’ll say it again: I’d have rather Mitsubishi (and/or Subaru) left the US and Suzuki stayed in their place. The SX4 and Kizashi were a sign of what they could actually do, and without having to hawk garbage rebadged Daewoos courtesy of GM.
EVs democratized torque.
Although a PHEV, I recommended a RAV4 Prime to someone and he couldn’t get over how nice is it to have torque. He got too carried away with his comparisons (no dude, it’s not a sports car…), but for him, having 300+ lb-ft instead of normally having half that or less in everything he owned was a sea change for him.
In all seriousness, he has a compact economy crossover with the torque you’d historically expect in the final years of theFord Modular V8, or close to an LS1. For the average person used to N.A. inline-fours, it’s like entering a different world.
It’s a good example of (P)HEVs both improving efficiency while improving the driving experience. If it’s well implemented, improved efficiency doesn’t have to suck…
I have to admit that I would 100,000%-absolutely-no-joke RUN out the door and buy a stick-shift Jimny. Literally. Not even a “maybe”. I drove the latest model in Costa Rica and HAD A BLAST. Faster and smoother and cuter than my Sidekick. THAT BEING SAID. Ain’t nothing coming of Trump’s latest bloviating. NO manufacturer in the world could set up shop in the US, completely in-house manufacture and assemble everything (to avoid tariffs) and still make a profit on small vehicle that aces safety testing (Insurers would punish low-rated small cars) and passes emissions standards (even if the emission standards are temporarily reduced).
No company with the money to do it would risk opening a factory in the US right now.
Rules making it worthwhile can be thrown out before they get the roof on a new factory – more likely before they even choose a suitable site.
That makes two of us. Surely that’s enough to make it worthwhile to Mitsubishi, at least.
Do you two have a negative credit score? They may reject your credit application if you don’t.
I’m sure I can ruin my credit by the time we’re able to buy one.
Just think how much better if would be if Trump hadn’t actively meddled in free enterprise.
Just think how much better it would be if Trump hadn’t been on “The Apprentice”
Just think how much better it would be if reality TV never happened.
Amen to that thought.
Goddamn British. For every Blackadder and Doctor Who, they also gave us Love Island and Big Brother.
I’m afraid Jersey Shore is all on us though. They have their own Jersey but I don’t think the inhabitants are such gym, tan, and laundry enthusiasts.
Just think of how much better it would be if those spineless Republicans impeached Trump after he attempted an insurrection in 2020.
Lol. “insurrection”
Just think how much better it’d be if we had more than two major and equally-powerful political parties, and didn’t have to deal with the utter garbage quality of PotUS candidates we’ve been force-fed for the last few decades.
Seen from a distance, both from a geographic and dare I say philosophical standpoint, you have had plenty of descent human beings you could have voted for, but chose not to. Primarily because they are women.
I haven’t seen any of those women get to let alone beyond the primaries, IIRC. The puppet masters of the parties will push who they want to push, qualifications and capabilities be damned.
You had Hillary and Kamala.
I double dare you to say that you picked the better option.
Neither of them were good candidates, especially Harris. She was also not selected via a primary, she was a shoo-in because ol’ Joe rightfully dropped out (and shouldn’t have run in the first place).
There are a couple hundred million natural American adult citizens over 35 that meet or exceed the requirements for the presidency. We can and should do better than what we’ve been offered.
I’ve not voted for any of the R nor D POTUS candidates since I’ve been able to vote, so I guess you owe me a drink?
I am not stating that either Kamala og Harris were good candidates, I am just saying that you (the US) picked what ever it is you got now.
Oh I gotcha. The current PotUS did win the popular and electoral vote, yes.
We the people didn’t and don’t really pick the candidates. The plutocrats that run the two major parties pick them, and they generally do not do a very good job of that in recent decades.
Because things have been going so smoothly?
Thank you all for the unexpected COTD! I couldn’t have done it without all of you. Truly, I’m standing on the shoulders of giants. The view is electric!
Glad you got a charge from that.
You could say he was shocked by the nod
Yes certainly great for the manufacturers. They have people convinced a dull car is worth buying for a billion dollars.