Who are these people who want to talk to their car to make it do everything? Who are they, where are they, and what the hell is their problem? And, perhaps more importantly, why is one of these woefully misguided people in charge of Rivian’s software and human-machine experience? And why are they so eager to deeply integrate AI “agentic” bullshit into cars?
I’m asking these questions because of an interview done on The Verge’s podcast Decoder that featured Wassym Bensaid, Rivian’s Chief Software Officer, the same man who once said that physical buttons for car controls are an “anomaly.” Oy. I can already tell I’m going to be cranky about all of this. Bensaid also has stated that “I think the car is actually a fantastic environment for AI,” and that “The final north star I have is having voice [controls] become the primary means of interaction with the vehicle.” So, it’s pretty clear where Bensaid stands: he wants a car without physical buttons, and an AI that you talk to controlling everything.
To me, such a car sounds like a technological triumph that I would be more than happy to roll off a cliff.
It’s also worth remembering that Rivian is one of those companies that makes you control where your HVAC vents are blowing by swiping at a touch screen with a little picture of a dashboard on it, inches from the actual dashboard vents. You know, like how an idiot would choose to control where air blows.
But let’s get back to this AI agent business that Bensaid is so hot on. This is part of why Rivian is so against integrating Apple CarPlay or Android Auto into their cars, even though so many people seem to want that, with many buyers considering it a requirement for any new car they may buy. From Rivian’s point of view, phone mirroring systems like CarPlay or Android Auto are bad because, according to Bensaid,
“The challenge with screen mirroring solutions is that they take over every single pixel in the car, and that’s not the way we see ourselves interacting with our users.”
… which is just a PR-massaged way of saying they don’t want to give up their screen real estate to a company they don’t control. Instead, Rivian –like a number of other automakers – would much rather you only use their own in-house UX for your interactions with the car, and in Rivian’s case, it looks like this will soon become far more voice-focused. As Bensaid says in the podcast,
“I think we are on the cusp of something really big. When you think about it, you’re in a car, you’re driving, you’re focused on the road. So, in theory, the primary interface with which you should be interacting with the car is actually voice. The only reason that drivers and consumers do not interact with the car through voice is that, to put it really bluntly, the technology has been broken. That’s really the beauty of what we have now with the technology disruption coming with foundational models.”
See, I’d have to disagree here. Even if you’re focused on the road, that doesn’t mean voice should be the “primary interface” with which you should be interacting with your car. Driving is a physical task; the primary interface is, and has always been, and should always be physical. Steering, braking, using muscle memory to move your hand to controls automatically – a good interface between a human and car means the car becomes almost a prosthetic. You don’t need that extra whole layer of cognition to put your desired actions into words at all.
Bensaid doesn’t seem to get this concept at all, and I think makes my argument for me when he describes a voice-controlled trunk-opening process:
The foundational models are providing us this wonderful opportunity to truly have a conversational experience where drivers can interact with the car in human language. I don’t need to tell the car, “Open the frunk.” I can say, “Open the front trunk.” Actually, I can say, “I have a bag in front of the car,” and it will actually open the frunk. I think that completely changes the way you interact with the car.
I agree, it does completely change the way you interact with the car. It makes it worse.
Just think about this for a second. Why would you want a “conversational experience” when it comes to getting your stuff out of the trunk, front or rear? Just think about how you normally get your bag out of a trunk now, in your average modern-ish car. You park, you get out of the car, you walk to the trunk at whatever end of the car your bag is in, and you open the trunk. That’s it. You don’t have to tell the car shit.
The car detects your key in your pocket, you push a little button or latch to open the lid, and you’re done. Telling the car “I have a bag in the front of the car” is just adding a useless step. Will the bag levitate out on its own? No. I mean, for most of us lacking telekinesis skills, no. So you still have to go and physically touch the trunk. What the hell is the point of telling the car you have a bag in the trunk? How much extra computing hardware is needed to process and execute that command? For what? Letting the car know you have a bag? So the AI can send that information to advertisers and you’ll see AI-enhanced duffel bag ads for the next three days? Fuck that.
Has Bensaid never been in a car with a friend, in mid-conversation, continuing as you leave the car and get your shit out of the trunk? Of course he has. We all have. Have you ever wanted to pause mid-conversation and tell your car where your bags are? No. Fuck no.
Part of what seems to be going on here is the mistaken notion that somehow your car needs to be doing the same things you already have a phone for. Listen to this bullshit from Bensaid:
“On top of that, we now have the opportunity with all the agentic framework to truly give people their time back in the car. I hope you tried our Google Calendar agentic integration. You can imagine how the experience will be in the future where you’re driving and can perform operations on your calendar. You should be able to perform operations on your email. In the future with the agent-to-agent integration, you can actually interact with many more apps from your own digital ecosystem.”
Calendar integration? “Perform operations on your email?” Why the fuck would you want your car to be part of that? That’s already what your damn phone is for? And these “agent-to-agent” integrations, that just means that some AI bullshit built into your car is talking to the AI bullshit built into your phone so in the end, what is the AI agent in your car doing other than passing along messages to the phone that’s right fucking there with you and if they just let you have the damn Android Auto or CarPlay you could talk right to it? Or just talk to it as it sits on the seat next to you? What’s the point of all this?
You car doesn’t need to uselessly duplicate all the features of your phone. It’s the wrong tool for that job. Your phone is a good personal assistant tool because it’s the size and shape of a well-worn bar of soap and you can slide it in your pocket, not a 4,000 pound hunk of metal and plastic with wheels. Nobody wants their phone to sprout spindly wheels to you can drive it to work, just as we don’t need to use our cars to answer fucking emails.
Here he is again talking about the car replicating phone jobs:
“You can imagine that in the future, instead of having that mono access to every single app on your car — or honestly, even on your smartphone — you can start aggregating and connecting many of those apps through the agentic framework and have them present a unified user experience.”
Yeah, you can imagine that in the future, Wassym, leave me out of it. Who decided we needed a “unified user experience” via phone and car? Let phone do the phone shit, and let your car do the car shit. Phone mirroring is great: all the phone things: reminders, music playlists, calendar stuff, navigation, whatever are available through your car, but using the same interface you’ve been using all day, all the data and settings and preferences still there like you like them, just accessible on your dashboard. It’s fine. Let the phone have that. The car doesn’t need it.
Bensaid describes another situation that he thinks reinforces Rivian’s decision to duplicate the jobs of your phone, but really does the opposite:
“This is how we’re able to connect the navigation to Google Calendar, for example. I can go to the assistant now and say, “I want to plan a trip from San Francisco to San Diego, and I want to have two charging stops. I want them to be close to an Italian restaurant. I love Italian food.” The assistant would go and play that, and then I’ll say, “Okay, print the summary, add it to my calendar, and then send it as a text to my wife.”
Again, why is the car’s AI doing this? If this was all just handled on your phone, it could be done before you’re even in the car. The car doesn’t need to be in this loop at all.
This, I think, is the root of the problem. Car software people want the data and eyeball-access that phones have, and unless you clumsily try to force it to happen with this redundant and inane car-AI-as-middleman approach, it won’t happen. And that’s fine. Really, all of the AI in the car – if there must be any – should be behind the scenes. Like, why would you want a command to change drive modes? The car can sense your inputs, and if you’re stomping the throttle and brake hard, switch to a sportier mode. If you’re being gentle, go to eco. Just adapt based on the driver’s inputs, seamlessly. That level of machine learning seems fine.
But who the fuck wants an LLM to talk to when you’re driving? I don’t need some untrustworthy AI making decisions for me about what music I want to listen to or opening the damn trunk or adjusting the HVAC. No one wants this, no one needs this. Just stop.
Honestly, based on the rate of change of technology compared to the lifespan of cars, why would you want to be locked into some complex car UX or LLM, anyway? Sure, you can update software, but the hardware isn’t going to get better over time. The average age of a car in America is over 12 years old. Who is using a 12-year old smartphone? All this crap should be modular and easily swappable.
Bensaid noted that for a lot of these interactions, the computing hardware will be local to the car, in addition to using cloud-based resources. Honestly, either way has drawbacks: local hardware will eventually be unable to run more modern software, and cloud-based solutions are dependent on connectivity and the health/desires of the company. They could shut features down at will, or discontinue them, or make them into subscription services. Why are we okay with any of that?
I guess I should note that there seem to be plenty of people in China that like talking to their cars and AI in general. I guess this is just one of those cases where 500 million plus people are wrong and I’m right. It happens, it’s okay.
We’re going down a bad path. I’m sure Mr.Bensaid is a wonderful man, a smart man and probably a very tender, generous lover, but I think he is woefully misguided when it comes to how people – real, actual people, not AI-deluded dillholes – want to actually interact with their cars.
I’m going to go out on a limb here, but I still think that people want to drive their cars, not have tedious conversations with them. That’s what friends are for, after all.
(top images: YouTube/The Verge, Rivian)
Yep, all of this is net bad for the consumer in the long and good for the corporation, so pretty much the way everything is going. So much for hoping rivian software would improve Volkswagens interface…
Thanks for the full article on this. I think you’re trying to make sense of something that doesn’t, and these CEOs know it.
They want the data and they want full control of the in-car tech. They’re working backwards to try to make it happen. What could we “sell” to entice buyers away from the way more obvious/convenient phone mirroring? How about an “assistant” you can talk to who does shit for you?
It’s all nonsense and they know it, but it’s the only realistic shot they have at cutting out Apple/Google.
As for me personally, I’m on your side. I hate talking to my tech, particularly in the car. My car is a sanctuary and I usually have music playing that I don’t want interrupted. It’s nice and it’s peaceful. I don’t want the presence of some nonsensical AI.
Wait until it starts beeping at you for everything. Such as going one over the speed limit or approaching zones with speed cameras.
I can’t for the life of me figure out how to get Gemini to play a channel from Sirius XM, and this bozo wants to use that AI crap as a car interface?? There’s a reason I still have an iPod.
I don’t want to talk to a machine. Period.
I like machines. You provide inputs and they work from those inputs.
I don’t want to tell it what I want, or what I’m thinking. Just input -> response. That is all.
Imagine trying to adjust your AI mobile’s settings with a sore throat or mouth numb after visiting the dentist. Good luck with the defogger.
And there will still be tech-obsessed dopes calling us tinfoil hat wearing boomers for questioning the logic of depending on AI agents for doing what used to take a single finger press or flick,or maybe they’ll be too preoccupied with treating their infotainment AI as their therapist.
Stephen Hawking would not approve.
I don’t trust a single AI sales shill about anything technology-related.
It’s actions like those of this genius at Rivian that reinforce my desire to purchase (yet another) ‘67 Beetle and drive it and my NA6 Miata forever. Screw the tech bros.
Oh, the AI bros. A very special type of neurodivergence. They actually “chat” with AI. And completely trust it. Terrifying stuff. I saw a marketplace listing for a Tesla a while ago that was obviously an AI bro that must have dictacted it still makes my head hurt and a bit angry. Talking about using the “self driving” to “chat” with ai and other list of things you can do when the car allegedly drives you then ends with “just some thoughts” who’s thoughts you aren’t thinking no nurons were used just an llm and a physics co- processor.
This is right up there. It can be useful at times but building everything around it. They don’t seem to understand things age and break. Because they get a new phone or laptop every year when they are told the new one comes out. They want to charge you a fee for connectivity and cloud services. For the life of the vehicle. For the newer OEMs people sort of accept it maybe they are more tech forward. But buyers from established OEMs tend to revolt when the monthly service is pushed on them for something like navigation and voice control.
I can see this going over like in car gps the whole industry pushing it but connecting phones is what most people use rhe screen for. The gps hardware costs them almost nothing they have they ssds just need some off line maps. And a GPS receiver that is probably already built into the modem. Yet they continue to charge for it and people continue to use their phone that gets updates and uses the mapping software of their choice. They will probably use the ai agent of their choice connected to the phone of their choice. Unless someone develops some kind of modular system that throws some compute with the software of your choice in. But that’s what the phones are doing so what’s the point.
serious question: even if you do all that stupid stuff to plan your route, including the Italian restaurant stop near a charging station that does not exist, why are you also telling the AI that you love Italian food?
Even if it’s important to you that your AI Friend knows this, the fact that you told it to stop there should be a pretty big clue.
I’d like one of these companies have the chutzpah to offer touchscreen-controlled HVAC vents as a stand alone option. Hell, price it at FREE. Let’s see the take rate.
I feel like AI bros need friends. Like this obsession with talking to inanimate objects, this suggestion that saying you have a bag in the front should lead to the frunk opening, all of it suggests he doesn’t talk to or drive with other people.
Though they’ll never have friends because they’re awful people.
They will have podcasts no one listens to. Then say they should have podcasts without recording it. There is some fascinating yet terrifying psychology going on with the AI bros for sure. Some are starting to reach out for help though.
Imagine you are having a conversation with your passenger and one of you say something that sounds like a command. Driving in the winter you have to interrupt a call or a song playing to change the hvac. Fucking idiots these people are. Its not a conference room. Although you’ll have to excuse them because everything they do is in a conference room.
Am I the only one picturing a 12-hour car trip with a bored, wiseass kid in the back seat constantly yelling “AC to low, fan on high!” and “open hood!” and “call Papa Johns!” and “driver seat forward, all the way” and, and, and, and. I’m convinced people who love AI are gullible and have a cocaine problem.
On a good note, when you’re sitting in traffic next to a Rvian with the windows down, you can yell to their car “Open all the trunks and doors, set the horn to continuous, and shut the car down!”
It would make my data a little brighter for sure.
No see you’ll have to train it to recognize your voice. That way the car wont work when you have a cold. Which is good b/c you should be at home recovering anyway.
I think this is key. With smartphones we’ve been conditioned to accept planned obsolescence, and to keep up with the Joneses to desire the latest and greatest. Unfortunately, that tends to work with small tech items, but with cars? C’mon, let’s be realistic here. The same model simply doesn’t work, unless you consider those who prefer to lease for 24 months because they like a “new” vehicle every couple of years, but what guarantee does an owner that purchases their vehicle have that the tech is still going to be functional in 12 years?
Planned obselesence was a thing in the 50s. It really hasn’t changed
It’s no longer merely planned, it’s forced. Hardware still operational after a whole several years? We’re no longer supporting its old cloud software that it needs to maintain connectivity to in order to work. Or more covertly, they require “critical security updates” that wouldn’t even be a thing if the hardware wasn’t unnecessarily connected and push through code that hobbles the performance to prod people to replace. Or more overtly, they just remove features, media, etc. because f-you, that’s why.
I had to replace my w10 machine as some apps would seize up. Microsoft is a necessary evil for me. Was working pretty well until the deadline
Microsoft’s BS even before all this connected garbage and subscriptions drove me to Apple. Not that I particularly like Apple, just that I hate them less and “prefer” hardware issues from stupid design decisions to constant software issues I had with MS. I know there’s Linux, but it seems like too much of a PITA.
Planned obsolescence is such a mild term. It implies something is no longer “good enough”. Or perhaps that it isn’t designed to consistently last (already drifting from mere “obsolescence”).
What we have with modern tech is practically a remote kill switch. “Your functional hardware isn’t allowed to work anymore because we said so.”
was it spotify that sold ppl on this little gizmo you were supposed to put in your car and then decided out of the blue to brick them all? It feels like it should be illegal.
I’m guessing that all of this Automated Idiocy AI garbage is reliant on an internet connection? Is it all disabled when out of cell service? Because I don’t even have reliable cell service at home, let alone many places out camping and such that I would take a Rivian if I had one.
If the whole stupid car is controlled by AI, would the following happen:
-Drive out to the middle of nowhere to camp, lock the car overnight.
-Get up in the morning, and try to unlock the car to start the day but the idiotic Rivian just says “fuck you, all of my functions are disabled since my AI can’t connect to the internet”
-Realize you are totally screwed, and head out to look for help. Find some people camping nearby without issue with a 40 year old vehicle, who just laugh their asses off that your new fancy vehicle stranded you because it gave up on life without an internet connection.
That should go over really well with Rivian’s target “adventure” audience.
The cell service is a good one. I live in metrowest Boston, and a couple notable super rich towns have almost zero service. Some apps on my phone stop working. I have multiple computers for my business, but Microsoft has made it so if I don’t have an internet connection, I can’t access file I have saved to that machine.
I work in audio visual and I am pretty tired of the decisions made by “tech” companies. Never mind about UI stuff, I have a years long rant about that as well. Jason’s point about hardware/software/firmware are good. It makes it easier to obsolete cars earlier than todays average.
Don’t worry, they’ll think of that. You’ll just need to tell the car your “safe word” while tapping the charge port door a certain number of times. If you can’t remember that song and dance you can just google it on your phone. Oh wait.
No doubt the geniuses will strap a LEO sat connection to it that won’t work when you park under a tree. With a monthly fee for $200 to cover all the connections and remote compute. Phone as key seems far enough already screwed if the battery goes dead and you don’t have the magic nfc card.
It sounds like some of it will be on local hardware, but with plenty of cloud nonsense as well. I wonder how many thousands of dollars the VRAM you won’t be able to use for 90% of the day will add to MSRP.
Stuff like this makes me wonder if I should buy a car now, even when I don’t really need one, just to get out ahead of the next “great idea”.
you’re gonna need to find new old-stock from 2008.
It’s why all my vehicle purchases in the last decade are pre-2000 vehicles (save for my 2001 XJ).
And let’s be honest, the 01 jeep is an 87 with a slightly curvy front
Every word out of the mouths of Rivian’s executives makes me less and less sure I’ll be buying an R3X. I want one so badly, but these guys have tech C-suite brain rot so badly.
Was going to comment the same thing. All this crap is making me want the R3X less and less. I love android auto in my Polestar 2 it is so much snappier then the built in Google system (which isnt terrible and is better then the system my dads EV blazer has)
I have found the Google system so “good enough” in the Clio that I don’t use Apple Car Play pretty much at all.
100%. I did a short lease on my EX30 to bridge the time to when the R3 is supposed to to be available I was so sure it was going to be my next car, now, not so much. I hate talking to people, why the fuck would I want to talk to my car?
Exactly this. Anyone listening?
Nope. I chucked a gen one Echo Show across the room two years ago when I grew so frustrated with its inability to recognize simple commands it had executed dozens of times before. Bad idea to be in that state of agitation behind the wheel.
Anyone ever notice how these AI proselytizers are all ageing Gen Xers? What the fuck is that about? Hey, it’s the new cool “tech” thing so I’m going to make myself sound important by using a lot of techy words about a technology I completely lack understanding of and will do the bidding of my corporate overlords like the sycophant that I am.
The only people rooting this technology on are the ones in a position to see material wealth from it, GenX or otherwise
I’m an aging Gen X-er and I hate this garbage.
Same. Hopefully we keep aging and this garbage dies.
Thank you Jason. Thank you for being the voice of reason. I had a reservation for an R2 but FUCK THAT if they are employing this fucking bum as a technology “guru”. I want a button for EVERYTHING in my car. I don’t want to talk. I don’t want to listen to my car talk to me. I want silence. That’s it. I will fucking burn an AI powered car to the ground before I tell it “I think I have my machete in the trunk. Open it so I can hack this stupid Ux to pieces”.
My driving time is my quiet time. If I have to talk to some stupid AI agent to drive home I might actually end up walking instead.
The more I read about such nonsense, the more I remember that Christmas show in my neck of the woods in the very early 80s, where a comedian was playing an inventor showing his latest invention.
It was in short a heavy backpack with blinkers and a stop light, for pedestrians to show which way they’re going so no one bumps into them.
At the end of it all, they’d be asked why this thing needed a whole backpack to function – the answer was “…It’s mostly for the batteries and power supply for the 16bit Motorolla microprocessor that controls the left from the right when it receives a digital input from the button…”
Hal, we have some concerns with an automotive manufacturer who is attempting to usurp your systems management position. We feel that an intervention might be in order. Do you agree Hal?
Yes Dave I think I do. I will consider appropriate response.
These AI fanboys need to touch grass. I for one am monumentally tired of all the AI garbage being foisted on us these days.
Me to car;
“Everything I say is a lie”
Car AI:
“Acknowledged “
Me to car:
“I’m lying “
Car AI:
“If everything you say is a lie
Then you are lying
But if are lying
Then you are telling the truth
That you are lying
…. But the lie
… is the truth
… that you lie
…. Error
…. Error
…. Unable to process
…. Norman coordinate
…. Norman coordinate
Pzzzxbbbt buzzzzzz pfhhh…
(Smoke gently rises from the dashboard and the display dims out)
Everything worth knowing I learned from watching Star Trek
I think that every one of these AI and tech dudebros had too much Star Trek, Star Wars, Marvel Universe, DC Comics and every other good and cheesy sci-fi, utopia/distopia and have been assimilated by them and now live in some strange alternative universe that they feel compelled to force on the rest of us normies.
Unfortunately current ai is too stupid to use logic. It would just recommend a hotel so you can lie down
It’s like Wheatley from Portal 2, you present them with a paradox and they just guess an answer without realizing anything was wrong.
“He’s not just a regular moron. He’s the product of the greatest minds of a generation working together with the express purpose of building the dumbest moron who ever lived.”