When you buy a car online, you’d expect what you see to be more or less what you get. Sure, some minor cosmetic defects might be too small for the camera to pick up, but you’re still looking at undoctored photos of a real car, right? Well, not always. Over the weekend, a Bring A Trailer listing went live with a beige 1999 Cadillac DeVille. Florida-spec vinyl toupee, 81,000 miles, your average retired-well church-on-Sunday car. Normally, this wouldn’t be noteworthy, but something strange is going on in the photos.
Now, let’s preface this by saying that there are some acceptable uses of generative AI in car photography. Using generative fill to remove unwanted lamp posts in the background isn’t dissimilar to clone-stamping them out, and can produce far neater results. Digitally extending the existing sky and pavement to turn a 3:2 photo into a 9:16 photo for social media is similar to just using copy-paste to extend a solid-color static background, and doesn’t fundamentally alter the subject of the photo.
However, this photo set doesn’t appear to be altered in those ways. Instead, it’s turned into an aggravating game of spot-the-difference, to the point where you would second-guess whether this Cadillac exists in anything close to its presented state.
Right out of the gate, we’re off to a rough start with a garbled licence plate. The photo above has been cropped in, but otherwise is identical to the one in the listing. While messed-up text is a hallmark of AI-generated imagery, modern phones have also been known to turn legible text into gibberish characters through photo processing. However, other stuff also seems fishy.
Here’s a photo of an actual late-’90s DeVille, and right out of the gate, there are differences. Mirrors that aren’t droopy, a very different layout of elements in the headlights, four horizontal slats in the grille rather than three, that sort of stuff. A phone camera’s image processing alone doesn’t explain these differences, and another photo of the auction DeVille makes things clearer.
That’s the correct number of horizontal grille slats and the correct headlight layout, but two main things stick out here. The first is a different style of wheel, the second is whatever’s going on with that hood ornament. It’s a little hard to tell without zooming in, but that’s not a Cadillac crest.
Around back, those aren’t DeVille tail lights, the wheels are different from the ones in both front three-quarter shots, that trunk emblem is clearly incorrect, and what’s going on with that licence plate?
Moving to the left rear three-quarter view, we get another completely different set of taillights, a different rear emblem, a new and unusual licence plate, different bumper trim, and painted lower trims. Never mind the unpainted-looking door handles, the random fender emblem, or yet another different style of alloy wheel.
There definitely appears to be some generative stuff going on here, and that’s before we get to the interior.
Hang on, is that a cobblestone floor? I know the “Top Gear” cottage-themed S-Class struck a chord, but what we’re looking at here just doesn’t seem real. The shadowing from the rear seat squab doesn’t look right, and shouldn’t there be a door threshold at the bottom edge of the picture?
Ah, yep. In this alternate angle, the carpet in the left rear footwell and, well, everything low and up-front disappears, replaced by stonework imagery. Someone’s been blatantly manipulating these photos with results that just aren’t real or representative of the actual vehicle.
In case that wasn’t enough for you, how about two column-mounted shifters and no ignition barrel – or is the stalk sprouting from it? That’s definitely carpet up front, but like, what are we doing here?
Oh, and the door frame above the mirror is just gone. Where’d it go? I don’t know, into the digital ether or something.
It didn’t take long for commenters to start piling on this listing. From “This listing is an AI trainwreck” to “What in the AI slop pics?
Some struck a more humorous tone, such as “Come on guys, we all know the 1999 DeVille is 20 feet long on the left side, 14 feet long on the right side, somewhere between 25 and 30 pavers wide, and could be ordered with the rare A-pillar delete.” Nicely done.
It took a few hours after the listing went live for Bring A Trailer to respond to initial comments, and the first communication could’ve gone over better.
Hello all,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the gallery photos. We share your concern about the authenticity of the images and are working with @seller to obtain additional images of the car. We will update the listing as soon as they’re available.
While the firm had eyes on the situation, the big question is why this was allowed to go live in the first place. Bring A Trailer director of customer experience David Duke commented on the listing after it had been withdrawn, writing:
We definitely understand the concerns raised by this situation. We want to make it clear that every listing on BaT is created by BaT staff and we are reviewing internally how these photos were missed by our team.
The legitimacy and accuracy of photos in an online auction is obviously of utmost importance and something we cannot allow to be manipulated by AI.
We very much appreciate the oversight and input of the community on this auction, which enabled us to react as quickly as possible to the photo manipulations that we missed when arranging the photo gallery. We do not think the seller was intending to purposely mislead anyone but was simply mistaken in their efforts to make the car look as appealing as possible. We certainly should have caught this before the auction went live, and for that we sincerely apologize.
A few hours later, Head of Auctions Howard Swig commented the following:
Thanks for all the comments and deserving criticism on this listing. This is clearly a huge error on our part with multiple points of failure in our process allowing this listing to make its way through our system and live on the site. Some folks may be surprised to learn that our curation, editing, and quality control processes are all very human efforts at BaT without reliance on computer algorithms or AI. The team works hard to put out accurate and vetted listings every day, but we screwed up here and will own that.
We have had a few memorable blunders over the years and I can say that more than a few of those were entirely my fault! I am also sure we will encounter more AI-related challenges in the future and that this won’t be the last mistake we make. So I hope this listing can serve as a wake up call for us to review where things went wrong and how we can prevent this from happening again.
When you’re paying a five-percent buyer’s fee, you’d expect better lot representation than you’d find on Facebook Marketplace. For a premium service, not catching these photos erodes trust and can harm an entity’s reputation. The big questions now are: What were these multiple points of failure, and what systems will Bring A Trailer implement in order to prevent this from happening again? “Multiple points of failure” suggests that multiple eyes saw these photos and rubber-stamped them. What prevented employees from taking a closer look and flagging them? I’ve reached out to Bring A Trailer and will update you should I hear back.
In a strange way, it’s a good thing that the listing photos for this DeVille were awful, because the manipulation of them was obvious. Considering how awful many AI-generated cars were just three years ago, the scarier hypothetical is: what happens if generative AI image software gets really good? If software like MidJourney, Nano Banana, and the like is eventually able to vomit up a full image gallery of a vehicle without any errors, the potential for misuse would be huge.
If the technology exists to convincingly and without any skill required remove rust, reconstruct peeling lacquer, or edit out a tear in a seat with only a few prompts, what’s to stop an unscrupulous seller from doing just that? One potential solution to that hypothetical would be for auction sites’ representatives or partners to physically inspect each vehicle, but the labor involved in that drastically changes the business model. Those people’s time is money, and so a seller fee may be required. For the rest of us buying from the normal used car classifieds, what we see in a few years’ time might not actually be a car as it exists in real life (and while a description that doesn’t represent true condition is an issue with or without AI, AI can definitely hide a lot more). I’d certainly be cross if I drove an hour to see a car with a huge scrape that wasn’t disclosed.
Top graphic images: Bring A Trailer seller; DepositPhotos.com
A friend made floor mats for her pickup out of some flagstone pattern vinyl flooring. It was cool.
Did her carpet match her driveway?
LOL I should have scrolled further, I just made basically the same comment
I helped my friend create a laminate floor for the trunk of his Subaru wagon in college with my dad’s portable jigsaw. Used some gate hinges to allow it to lift up for spare access. Honestly looked pretty cool. Good times.
One of the innovations of Martin Luther King‘s namesake, Martin Luther was that on Halloween 1517 he attached his 95 thesis on the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg, Germany outlining what would eventually be the features of the new Protestant church, a tradition that has been passed down to us with the Mulroney stickers found on the doors of new cars, not to mention “new church smell”, unless your car is delivered with the frankincense option.
See, sort of auto related.
I’m GenX and vividly remember how dot-com came and went. RE: AI – Dolsh caught my attention: you can’t just scale up a data center and make hallucinations go away. AI.com
No. But you can continue to spend billions believing that you can.
Look, if you have a public facing job and your name is David Duke, just go by your middle name, or DJ, or something.
Hell even Dave would be an improvement.
This also applies to everyone whose name is Richard and opts to go by ‘Dick’ even when the last name is too… compatible. For instance my co-workers grandfather who went by Dick Paine.
My brother’s friend, Dick, has a line about naming his son. “I’m not going to name him Dick! I’ll name him……Peter.”
There was a politician in NH named Dick Swett. I wonder how many of the votes he got were because of his name.
I’m a Dave. He should come join us. We’re cooler and you can type your name with one hand. Dave Duke is kinda rad.
Richard Hurts from Holden, MA
Wait – Howard Swig?
As in Martin Swig’s son?
Holy shit.
I worked at his dad’s dealership – San Francisco Autocenter – for a few months after I exited the USAF and moved to The City in the early 90s.
Martin was a TERRIBLE businessman.
His family had to bail him out (the Swigs being the owners of the Fairmont at the time – passed down from father Benjamin who bought it in ’45) a few times because he was so awful at business.
Martin “ran” his business more like a private club for his buddies – and as a semi-private maintenance shop for his personal fleet of vintage cars.
And he never spoke w/ his sales-staff employees – only the maintenance guys.
By the time I arrived, he had already lost his Oldsmobile, Audi and Sterling franchises. And for the Toyota franchise, we had a fleet of trucks which we could not sell because we would have had to sell them at a loss due to the backend/volume incentives Toyota USA was giving high-volume dealers, of which we were most definitely not. And our sales managers simply could not make that happen due to Swig.
He finally sold the dilapidated, money-burning Autocenter in the late 90s to land developers – around the time the family sold the Fairmont in 1998
That didn’t prevent him from playing Lord Of The Manor with all his car pals (including DED Jr and Bob Lutz) up on Nob Hill at the family hotel and putting on the CA Mille, which OF COURSE started there.
Last time I saw Howard – or was it his brother David? – he was a little kid on Antiques Roadshow when it was in SF – He brought some vintage toy/model cars for evaluation (of course)
He and David apparently sold the CA Mille to Hagerty in 2020.
David now also works for an auction company as their automotive specialist.
All we know is, he’s called The Swig.
I went down the AI rabbit hole one night out of boredom discussing my first car, a 79 ford mustang. Went thru all the OEM features,, color, stock engine with my upgrades and exterior upgrades after I restored it. I then asked it to create an image of the vehicle and good lord, it was the most hideous looking Frankenvehicle. I wish I could post it but I don’t think that’s possible here
I’ve got to wonder if this isn’t just a prank? Of all the weird things going on here my favorite is the double gear shifter. It’s like the pretty girls in the videos with eight fingers on one hand.
It’s quite the elaborate prank. On the other hand, if a certain other online car auction site wanted to create a ton of bad press…
(Note: I don’t actually think this is what happened. Quirks and features for everyone!)
THIS….is a Cadillac DeVille AI!
Less Doug Demuro could make a fine YTP about – THIssssiisiii iiisssss
I think the seller was trying to put the car in front of a nicer house for the photos.
I live in this house with my wife. Morgan Fairchild.
Yeah. And look it does make a difference vs its likely natural habitat: parked in a 1970s ranch house in The Villages next to the golf cart.
Quirks and features.
> If the technology exists to convincingly and without any skill required remove rust, reconstruct peeling lacquer, or edit out a tear in a seat with only a few prompts, what’s to stop an unscrupulous seller from doing just that?
Isn’t it a thing AI can do already?
the most obvious sign of AI: Cadillac Devilles belong in FB marketplace
I’m likely wrong here but my first thought was “money laundering.”
Not so sure you’re wrong. No legitimate transaction would result from this posting, but it would serve to pass if tossed in front of a not-so-interested auditor. Fronts create paper trails all the time. Didn’t the same thing happen on eBay with worthless baseball cards going to thousands of dollars? Less expensive than most money laundering outfits…
What’s fun is that in the pictures that show the actual ground, it’s the same cobblestone pattern you see on the AI-carpet.
You don’t think the owner wanted to color match their carpet to his driveway? Is that not a thing people do?
I already have a car with matching oil stains on the carpet.
What is “Questions no tech bro billionaire will ever seriously consider”, Alex?
The AI industry is like if Big Tobacco had published their actual business plans for everyone to read: “We’re going to get everyone addicted to our product, which will kill or cause significant harm to a large proportion of those who use it. Not only that, second-hand exposure for people who don’t even use it will also harm them.”
The only way for BaT and Cars and Bids to combat this is to require verified photographs using some kind of content authenticity software/hardware, and secondary inspections for every car (it’s already an option with Cars and Bids). They’ll have to start charging for those, which will be just expensive enough to eliminate the low-rent scammers and anyone selling a cheap-ish car.
In this case they could also just take a look.
This was just some low-rent scammer, it’s not hard to get an AI to create perfect car images, just requires someone with better prompt skills. At that point, nobody will know.
I remember going to look at an Alfa Romeo Brera I saw advertised on our local used car website about ten years ago. Looked good in the photos, no issues highlighted by the seller. The only time we could go and look at it was at night. We got to the place, jumped in the car and took it for a test drive. We took it to a car wash so we could see it better under lights and… the entire side of the car was extremely faded to the point of being a nearly different colour. We drove it back and asked the seller why the paint was so faded and he said, “Oh! Is it?” As if he’d never noticed. Yeah, nice try mate. I made some excuse about not fitting properly in the car (which was true, my head brushed the ceiling) and we left.
TL;DR it’s always been easy to hide things in photos, which is why I’ve always found these auction websites where the private seller is the one taking the photos difficult to trust. I expect in the future they might have to introduce some sort of refund scheme for defects found that were obviously covered up using AI or Photoshop. It sort of surprises me they don’t already have such protections in place.
I agree in concept but I think it would be a nightmare. Who’s to say what was intentional vs the challenges of capturing details accurately? I know when I’ve listed stuff I’ve tried to take closeups of scratches or dents and, even when I’m TRYING, it’s hard to get some defects to show up properly. Point being I wouldn’t want to be the referee trying to decide if the seller was trying to hide a bumper with mismatched paint, or was trying to show it.
That’s a fair point, though I imagine there would be a way for an auction site to set the scales to err on the side of the seller except in clearly egregious cases. I guess otherwise it’s entirely on the buyer and seller to figure it out which I expect – if these sorts of cases become common enough – could end up harming the reputation of the auction site to the point where they’ll have to do something about it anyway.
The hood ornament looks like a circled Phillips 66 logo on my screen.
The thing about AI (as used in this listing) that really scares the hell out of me? Most people wouldn’t notice a thing wrong with these pictures.
An interesting variation of my theory. I don’t believe we will have AI, because the humans ultimately behind it are naturally stupid (NS).
However, are we as a species smart enough to detect AS (Artificial Stupidity) from AI?
Given how much press a Viking in a bathtub running from ICE agents has been given, I think it very likely that we will have AS that is smarter than most humans soon.
The cobblestone design on the floor mats ain’t totally bad.
I appreciate that, at least in the first interior pic, it made it a carpet texture.
Cobblestone carpet = plastic wood trim. I want the real thing.
They already charge a seller’s fee, it’s $250 to list your car for sale on BaT.
What do you want to bet that Howard Swig prompted ChatGPT to “create an apology, make it sincere” and this is what it spat out?
“Make it sound like it didn’t come from ChatGPT”
Craigslist making a comeback? If I cannot go see it with my own eyes, I am not buying it. And a horrible response from BaT, they need to ‘own it’ and use this as a way to build assurances for the future, not laugh it off as a silly thingie.
Probable outcome; lay off review teams and replace with AI, while doing the same with the phone, mail, messaging, QA, and Mr’s Duke and Swig. AI all the way down. Sell out to a Hedge Fund. $profit.
They were already bought out by Hearst in 2020.
I’m beginning to assume a lot of imagery on the internet is AI generated, and I’m almost to the point where it will need to be proven otherwise before I believe it’s human-made. I think part of it is because I’m so tired of having to figure this out so often already. It’s just easier to assume most perfectly posed photos and videos are AI. I guess this is a bit of a defeatist attitude but I don’t know how else to approach this as a long term rule for using the internet. I mean, other than just using the internet less as a whole, which I’m already doing.
Everything sucks, man.
Edit: now I’m wondering how long it will be before video evidence is inadmissible in court because literally any scenario can be crafted into a video with just a quick prompt.
Yeah. I was taking a video of my kids yesterday where I was running behind them. I figured it would probably look like garbage with all the shaking. Nope: looked like I had a gimbal. Not complaining, just pointing out that our phones are doing it without us even realizing it.
I’ve seen the stonework pattern show up when I’ve used generative AI in Adobe Lightroom to get rid of stuff on walls like light switches or fire alarm handles. For some reason, sometimes it thinks a fill of paving blocks is the right thing to use to replace the switch or alarm handle. Not catching the bogus stuff in this ad is laziness and incompetence.
Yeah so far I’m not enjoying AI, can someone please tell me something it’s doing that doesn’t suck?
Ask the guys who bought AI girlfriends.
Given that these guys are the type to need AI girlfriends, I expect that these girlfriends will not suck. They are somewhat intelligent, right?
Artificially so.
So far one of the best actual uses for AI I’ve seen is medical pattern recognition. You feed it 50 thousand good CT scans of people’s lungs and it gets pretty good at going “hey that tiny speck right there doesn’t look like it belongs” and can catch problems earlier. If they stopped trying to shoehorn it into everything they might actually develop the useful ones.
Wasn’t that the promise of IBM’s Watson like 20 yrs ago? Assuming it works, that’s great. I can also see feeding it a list of symptoms and it giving doctors possible diagnosis, esp for those rare conditions that often get misdiagnosed.
The problem is you can’t tell what the model’s actually learning – I recall a prior attempt at that kind of thing learned that all of the “bad” scans had a ruler or a pointer indicating the malignancy, so if a picture didn’t have a ruler or a pointer, it was a-ok.
Also the thing you’re describing is old-school machine learning, which does have many interesting compelling use cases, as opposed to the current “AI” hype cycle, which centers around LLMs and generative models, which are good at hallucinating things which don’t exist and spending more power than a medium-sized modern country to do so.
I have a framed “oil painting” of my German Shepherd posed like a 18th century English aristocrat. It’s fire.
Shit. Now I want an “oil painting” of my cat in a Starfleet uniform.
See. Useful. Keep building them data centers.
I feel a bit guilty for undoubtedly inspiring a few kW of wasted energy with my comment. Sorry planet.
Before making my dog Fancy, I had asked the same program to touch up a family pic. It turned me into a woman (I am not), gave my German Shepherd the head of a golden retriever, and made my five year old daughter look like an elderly little person with too many legs. I wish I could share it.
As long as it’s not a red one.
A red shirt with nine lives would’ve been a decent joke.
I work in the Nuclear power industry. It’s giving us a lot of hope and driving up stock prices.
It’s become a daily thing to see some announcement of Google or the like ordering a stupid amount of nuclear power plants.
Well that’s the opposite of what I asked for.
If you are anti-nuclear, you don’t have to worry. Execution of the planned construction is not a strong point in my industry. In the 2010s, there was 35 new units planned in the US. 2 were actually built. I think they spent more money on the 2 units than was planned for the 35.
The sad part is that I actually think Nuclear power is a great solution to our energy needs. I became a convert when I was assigned to work at a power plant that hosts a huge population of endangered seagulls. The air was clean, the water was clean, the seagulls were annoying, it was a great place to just walk around and enjoy nature, until a seagull dropped a crab from sub orbit to break it open on the hood of your car.
I went to a coal plant that made similar power. It was dirty, grimy, there were dump trucks full of fly ash leaving the plant 24/7, trains full of coal showing up 24/7. It stank, everything was dirty, it was just nasty. The only good thing was the lack of seagulls, but it took a week to get my clothes, even my underwear to smell and feel clean after only 3 days there.
And here’s the fun fact. The coal plant made more radioactive waste than the nuclear plant. I got something like 100x the dose at the coal plant in 3 days than I got at the nuclear plant for 3 months. Last time I was in a nuclear plant, I got 100x less dose in the fuel pool room than in the parking lot. The radiation barriers that prevent radiation from going down into the earth also act to keep stuff like radon from coming up.
BaT has grown too large and too volume-motivated. Looks like they rely on the free services of the commenters to complete their diligence and vetting for them, but I wonder how long the knowledgeable ones will stick around.
Ownership by Hearst is not helping things. C&D has been enshittified for awhile now, looks like it is contagious.
this is a good point. I think a lot of the buyers on BAT are serious collectors I.E “whlaes” who horde a lot of cars. if those buyers stop using the site they are cooked. BUT if a juicy enough rare car is on the site they probably won’t be able to help themselves and bid millions.
I was a news photographer for a locally owned TV station that sent me all over the world, that is now owned by Hearst. When I visit my mom, I no longer recognize that station I used to work for.
Corporate media officially sucks.
It’s gotta at least be better than Sinclair, no?
Locally owned stations were generally better before corporate takeovers. There are exceptions, of course.
The local station that now is the Fox affiliate and is owned by Fox, is much better since they bought it. The local NBC affiliate that was the 800-pound gorilla of the market until it got bought by Gannett (now Tegna) is a feeble remnant of its great self when it was family owned.
This is up in Seattle.
I did a lot of work for Sinclair. My second half of my career, putting software in for little stations in like Helena, MT to CNN, NBC, ABC and Fox, just felt like being a mercenary. We provide the weapons and how you decide to use them is up to you. I never sabotaged any site. Regardless of their editorial bent.
Sinclair has a lot of stations. I enjoyed visiting them all and making their employees’ lives better. Sure, as a journalist before my software days, they (corporate, not local) did stuff that got my BP up. The must-run editorials etc.
And that was the thing. There’s the technical side and then the editorial side. Regardless of what the editorial side was doing, I just wanted to make it easier on the technical side. Well, actually, both sides. And represent the company I worked for, well.
Thanks for that—interesting to hear a perspective from someone involved in the business side of the business.
I had two projects in NYC within a month of each other. TOTAL opposite ends of the political spectrum. Current TV (with Keith Olbermann at the helm) and a few weeks later, at Glenn Beck’s Mercury Radio Arts. While my own political leanings are more to the left, I saw people go into Keith’s office and come out crying; Glenn came in every morning with a box of donuts and pastries.
It was mind-warping.
I always kept my political thoughts to myself while I was working with a customer. Sometimes, I would engage with someone who talked about sports, but I’m not that emotionally or self-esteem based in “my” teams. I have moved around the country a fair amount and I have my favorites, but deep down, it’s just entertainment and my garbage removal people and (back in the day) my son’s teachers meant more to me than professional athletes.
Regardless of their politics, I have no tolerance for phonies. There are a lot of them in my line of work: they put on a good show but can’t keep an admin more than a year or two. I strongly believe there are certain jobs where the primary references ought to be the support staff they previously worked with. Maybe one day in Jasonia…
I believe this is another warning sign of the enshitification of the internet. Also, it sounds like Volvo is not going to continue to make wagons. So the canary in the coal mine is dead and petrified. Time for action and change.
Mind boggling that their first response wasn’t “haha sorry, our bad, this listing is getting jettisoned into the sun and the user is being blocked this very second”. The fact that no one caught this is bad enough in itself, but this warranted more serious action being taken – not that it will deter bad actors, but to show users they take these things seriously. Even if this car exists, there is clear ill-intent to mislead prospective buyers into thinking the car is in better condition than it actually is; if that doesn’t get you banned from BaT, they can’t expect users take them seriously.
I’m thinking of the average 1990s DeVille owner. There’s at least a chance they used some app to “touch up” their photos and this is incompetence. You’d think if you were trying to be deceptive you’d catch things like the dual shift lever.
Here’s my theory.
Great Grandpa owned the car and is now gone.
Grandpa now owns the car and wants it gone. He’s looking for the pictures to be in focus, not include a thumb and for the car to look like it hasn’t been infested with racoons for a decade.
Grandpa just knows a computer can make the pictures nice and that they have a grandchild that knows computers.
What he don’t realize is that the grandchild has never actually noticed what a car and car interior looks like, because they have had a phone or tablet in their hand as they get in and out of cars since they were in a rearward facing seat.
The pictures came out thumb-free, shiny and without any raccoon prints, so it’s a success.
Checks out. As I said I’m not ready to say this was intentional deception—it’s just so lazy that incompetence seems more likely.
Which gets into why I think AI won’t revolutionize the world like people think. Natural Stupidity will trump it.
“Hey Gemini, can you prove my science teacher is wrong by showing that the world is flat?”
And thus AI will be used to increase the advent of NS (Natural Stupidity) instead of offsetting it.
The more I look at my fellow humans, the more I find myself understanding why Skynet did what it did in that alternative future.
Yeah. It’s just a shame that, for a brief window, we had instant access to all of human knowledge. It certainly was never perfect, but it was useful.
It’s all getting reduced to those dumb tabloids at the supermarket: semi- entertaining nonsense. (That a large part of the population believes is real).
In this case, I don’t think it matters. Talking Renaults is correct in that the listing should have immediately been taken down. If it was, indeed, unintentional, then BaT should suggest a local photographer to retake the images and they can relist at the owner’s expense.
Oh I’m not arguing on taking it down — it’s the visual equivalent of gibberish. Just suggesting it might not have been nefarious and maybe Grandpa doesn’t need to be banned by BoT. But they can investigate to figure it out