Toyota builds cars really well. No question about that. And well-built cars make great used cars. But nothing is eternal, and even Toyota products must eventually succumb to their accumulated years and miles. How far gone is too far gone to be worth the effort? That’s what we’re investigating today.
We were in agreement about yesterday’s choices: the VW Scirocco is the better candidate to fix up. It’s mechanically simpler, in better cosmetic shape, and it has a known problem that isn’t even all that hard to fix. Hell, it isn’t even an in-tank fuel pump. Twelve-year-old-me will always pine for a Dodge Shelby Charger, but that’s not the right one to start with.
Now, about rust: Yeah, I don’t like it either. But I have dealt with it in the past, and unless I want to only buy cars in other parts of the country and bring them here to Michigan (possible, but a giant hassle), I imagine I’ll have to deal with it in the future. And anyway, we’re not talking about the Peter Iredale here. The seller of that Charger wouldn’t have bothered putting new brakes, struts, and a gas tank on a car that’s structurally compromised. I’ve patched floors before (the wrong way, with rivets) and I’m willing to learn how to patch them the right way, with welding, on the right car.
Last week, I mentioned a scruffy old Toyota Corolla I bought a few years back for $500. My wife reminded me, when she read about it, that I spent about another grand on it bringing it up to snuff. Did that make it less of a good deal? A bit, yeah, but it still ended up costing me way less to drive than it would have to keep commuting in my truck, when you factor in gas and insurance. The insurance on the Toyota was actually a bit less than the multi-car discount it invoked, so adding it to the policy actually made it cheaper. And 30 MPG versus 13 is easy math.
The trouble is that even shitty, beat-up Toyotas are often overpriced. I doubt any running $500 Corollas even exist anymore, outside of family-and-friends deals. Even the two examples I’m about to show you, two of Toyota’s finest, feel overpriced to me at two grand in their current condition. But maybe I’m wrong, and you’ll think one of them is a great deal. Let’s check them out and see.
1996 Toyota Previa SC All-Trac – $2,000
Engine/drivetrain: Supercharged 2.4-liter OHC inline 4, four-speed automatic, AWD
Location: Kitsap County, WA
Odometer reading: 300,000 miles (but says “odometer broken”)
Operational status: Runs and drives well
I have to give Toyota credit for the Previa. The Japanese giant answered the minivan call with the weird Hiace, which was sold here simply as the “Van,” a cab-over-engine design completely unlike the Chrysler design that would eventually take over the market. It doubled down on the weirdness with the Van’s successor, the egg-shaped Previa. Not everybody understood these vans, but those who did absolutely loved them. The seller of this van says its their third Previa. That’s pretty good customer loyalty for a vehicle that hasn’t been sold here in twenty-nine years.
The Previa’s stubby hood opens, but don’t expect to find the engine under there. All you’ll find are places to check the fluids, the air filter, and if I remember right, the fuse box. The engine is under the driver’s seat, accessed through a hatch in the floor. Two engines were available in the Previa in the US: a 2.4-liter four, and a supercharged version of the same. This one has the supercharger, as well as Toyota’s All-Trac all-wheel-drive system. It has a lot of miles, but the engine was replaced two years ago, and the seller says it runs and drives great.
So we have a high-mileage but good-running Toyota van; how is this a project, you ask? Well, the interior is “somewhat rough,” according to the seller, and it needs a bunch of smallish repairs. The HVAC fan only runs on high speed, for one thing. It also needs a new windshield, and the side window in the sliding door is held in place by what looks like gaffer’s tape. The seller says the hardware is broken. It’s also dirty and beat-up inside. A good cleaning would give you a better idea of just how rough it is.
Outside, it’s got dents and scrapes all over, but no serious damage that I can see. The headlights are foggy, but that’s no surprise on a car this age. Ordinarily, I’d suggest you just replace them, but these don’t seem easy to find, so you might have to try to polish them. This thing will never be pretty, but with some work, it could be a little more presentable.
1998 Lexus LS 400 – $2,000
Engine/drivetrain: 4.0-liter DOHC V8, five-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Vancouver, WA
Odometer reading: 170,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
It’s still weird to me to hear a car this new referred to as a classic. It’s like hearing Nirvana on the “classic rock” station. I mean, yeah, okay, but it’s jarring. The LS 400 definitely qualifies, though; this car has earned its place in automotive history, and if there’s a pantheon of luxury sedans, it has a seat there. So much so that even one that has suffered as much of a beating as this ends up in an auction yard instead of a junkyard. Nobody wants to give up on a car this freaking good.
The LS 400 is powered by a 4.0-liter V8 that runs smoothly enough to perform a really impressive trick you may remember from the ads. That silky-smooth engine drives the rear wheels through an automatic transmission, which had gained a fifth gear by the time this one was built. The seller says it runs and drives really well, despite how it looks on the outside. They just picked it up from an auction and don’t have time to fix it up like they planned.
The seller says the interior is “not too bad,” but it doesn’t look great. I think it’s mostly just dirty, but the glovebox door is on the floor, and there’s glass all over the rear seat from a broken window. Hopefully it hasn’t been parked outside in the rain with that window missing, otherwise the cleanup will be a lot worse.
The mangled left front corner shown in the first photo is sadly not the only damage; the right side rear door took a hit too, and it looks like the dent may extend into the rear quarter panel. You can probably replace the fender, hood, doors, and bumper with junkyard parts (if you can find one in a junkyard), but the other damage may have to stay. These are going to be prized classics someday, but that probably won’t include this one. It is still an awfully nice driving car, though.
Toyota, and by extension Lexus, means something in the used car market. They’re the brands that most buyers consider a sure thing, and most of the time, they are. And if these two cars were clean and low-mileage, they’d be commanding a whole lot more money. As they sit, they’re both still good-running, reliable cars. But are these two really still worth a couple grand in their current condition? And which one is more worth it? That’s what you have to decide.
Well, I am having crow for breakfast this morning. Yesterday I said this might be a “none of the above” week for me. But if I still lived out on the old homestead and had room to spread out, I would be tempted to tackle two projects, I’d vote both.
Ugh, neither.
Call me a spoilsport, but I can’t wait for this Shitbox Showdown theme week to be over so we can get back to cars that won’t give you tetanus.
I voted for the Previa because I have always admired the delightful weirdness of those things, but the more I think about it the more I want to change my vote. With a V8 and RWD the LS is a prime candidate for #racecarshit. Interior is shot? No problem, going to gut it anyhow. Exterior is beat to hell? Fantastic, I won’t feel bad ice racing, or drifting, or doing spectator drags, or anything else that’s probably going to make it worse. I would want to to talk them down a bit on price for either of these, but the more I ponder the situation the more I think the Lexus is offering big fun now.
No one buys a project car then immediately sells it because they don’t have the time to fix it they sell it because they found something big wrong with it
83 votes so far for the crackhead LS? Seriously? Am I missing something here? I mean I know the V8 is great but it needs a car to go in and that car isn’t a car anymore, it’s just a scrap pile.
Sophie’s choice today. Might have better odds taking my $2,000 across the state line to the casinos and see how my card counting abilities are.
If you could cobble together the cosmetic damage on the LS400, I’d find that vehicle far more rewarding to drive than a 300K+ mildewed Previa. But the Previa looks like it can be bought and driven daily right at this moment. Don the HAZMAT suit and go to work on that disgusting interior and see what we can do.
Yeah, Previa for me. If I have only two grand to spend, a neglected luxury sedan is not a smart move even if its a Lexus.
My brother bought a ’91 Previa new, and in the first week, it was low-speed T-boned by an idiot. It was fixed up. He got a crack in the windshield and came by my house in the heat of summer and had a thought. What happens when a hot, cracked windshield is hit with a stream of cold water from a hose? Well, we found out, and it was awesome! The crack followed the hose point of contact.
When he passed in ’98, I got the van from his estate and proceeded to put a lot miles on it with a few fixable things getting fixed along the way. It was a great van, handled great with that midish engine, and versatile interior. Our teens would love it when I reversed the second row seats, opening up the interior into limo mode. Our girl-child loved the mode, but hated being seen in it, of course.
I was taking the girl-child to middle-school and got pulled over for speeding in a 25 MPH zone. I wasn’t paying enough attention to my driving, I told the officer because I was listening to William Shatner’s song “You’ll Have Time”, wih the immortal lyrics, “We’re All Gonna Die” which is hillarious. I was let off with a warning. Ah, the Captain Kirk excuse worked! And embarrasing the pre-teen, achievement inlocked!
That flat glove box on some models. like this one, was our Westi’s favorite cruise location, looking like Snoopy in vulture mode peering out the front.
As the kids aged out of mini-van-need, I wanted to keep it, but we had a 4Runner for hauling, so I reluctantly let it go, still running at 300k miles. If it had been an AWD one, I would have kept it. Even as a two wheel drive, it handled the snow wonderfully, and with AWD would have been delightful. Even so, I took it on some pretty rough roads where people were surprised to see it get through. One has to be very aware of where the rear shock mounts get very close to the ground to avoid rocks, otherwise, it handled rough roads great.
So, obviously, the Previa, hands down choice. Where is it again?
that song is hilarious…. you’re reminding me to get out my mp3s now 🙂
OMG! Rally Cross the SC All-Trak! Soon as you break something it’s done though. Parts are too rare.
Previa. That LS400 is terrifying…might be a good donor vehicle, though, maybe for an old T100.
Would offer a bit less on either choice. But the LEXUS is a total no go for me.
Looks like a crack head car, and probably has had crack head levels of maintenance, if any at all.
No thanks on the LEXUS…
I knew I was voting for the Previa before I even clicked on the article. A scruffy old van has genuine charm as a vehicle that has seen some shit but still delivers the goods. A battered luxury car with shitty aftermarket wheels however is simply a turd. The seller bought the thing at auction and quickly realized they made a mistake. Don’t be the next person to make that mistake.
I was in Seattle in July and saw so many Previas. It got me thinking I’d like to have one, and this one seems okish.
The Lexus is beat, but will be picked up by a young kid that wants to do street takeovers and can’t get approved for a sub-prime loan on a Charger.
Supercharged mid engine sports van for the win today.
The Toyota HiAce was introduced in 1967 as a small truck and passenger van, long before the minivan revolution (ignoring VWs) of 1984. It was never sold in the US but was ubiquitous in Asian markets.
The Toyota Ace was the van introduced into the US in the fall of 1983 as the Van, same timeframe as Chrysler’s minivan. Both were 1984 models. Unlike the Chrysler FWD platform, the Toyota Van was a mid engine rear or AWD van.
The AWD/mid-engine/supercharged Previa is odd and interesting in so many ways that despite the wear and tear it still calls to me.
The poor Lexus is just ready for the boneyard and the $2k price is cr@ckpipe.
That AC fan issue is an easy fix, as I’ve done it before on my Toyota pickup. That, plus the looks and utility make it an easy choice.
Previa all the way. Starting with an AWD supercharged Van. I’ll clean it up and see what I’ve got.
The Lexus? I appreciate its history and that V8 but is there anywhere without a dent or other damage? Multiple accidents and that’s just what we know already.
Previa for me. I’d be concerned that the hit on the LS was bad enough to bend the monocoque.
I’d drive that Lexus to the snootiest valet at the snootiest restaurant, toss them the keys while saying, “Park it somewhere safe this time. All this happened the last time I ate here.”
Both my parents had Previas in the 90s. It was peak Toyota indestructible. They are real deal vans with a solid rear axle. Even without the supercharger they can tow a 16 foot boat all day at 70 mph. The best part is the shifter is on the column and it had an overdrive button on the end of the grip. When you wanted to pass someone you just hit the button. It was like push to pass for 16 year old me.
Only drawback, the AC will never work intown. Too much greenhouse not enough cold.
Who doesn’t want a mid engined, supercharged AWD vehicle? It’s a supercar in egg van shape. Mostly kidding, but my old boss had one and it was pretty great. I can deal with those issues and bomb around all winter in it. Too bad I’m in Maine. Washington state is a bit of a commute.
With this weird group, this should be previa all day long despite butter V8.
Totally agree. I think its been a few years since that example has been butter smooth!
Previa. That (probably rust-free, sadly) LS is good for a drivetrain donor or else a drift missile. Otherwise, there’s not enough left to save on it.
I guess I’m really confused. Are scrap prices so high that these are considered $2k cars?
Previa. I rate baseball bat-tested body panels right behind structural rust on the list of things to avoid.
When I saw LS vs Previa, I was all ready to click LS twice. Then I saw the LS had damage on every possible body panel and the interior was trashed and started clicking Previa as quickly as possible.
Van. I love a good LS400, but this one is too rough to be used as-is, unlike the Previa.