Last month, popular American motorhome manufacturer Newmar found itself at the center of a bizarre whirlwind of confusion. A Canadian couple who, in 2022, reportedly spent $1.35 million on a new Newmar King Aire 4531, recently attempted to sell their coach to a buyer in the United States. But there was a problem: The coach was not allowed to cross into the United States due to an alleged issue with its VIN stickers, and on a subsequent attempt to enter the country, the coach was reportedly seized. This has turned into a much bigger headache, with RV advocates raising the alarm that maybe there’s a widespread issue with motorhomes having ‘missing’ VINs. Here’s what we know about the so-called VIN-gate, and how you can protect yourself.
On September 19, RV consumer advocate ‘Liz Amazing’ published a bombshell video titled “BIG problem with Newmar Motorhomes? | US Govt may take action!” In it, Liz begins by explaining the importance of VINs, saying if your coach is missing its VINs (yes, motorhomes often have multiple), or for whatever reason the VINs cannot be located, then your coach is technically not street-legal. A local, state, or federal authority needs to be able to verify if your vehicle is lawful to drive. This is the case with your car, truck, and motorcycle, too. So far, fairly straightforward.
But then, she goes on to describe the story of the $1.35 million motorhome allegedly seized by the U.S. government.
Liz’s video was not the first on the $1.35 million RV’s halt at the border, as YouTuber AZ Expert posted the first video. However, that video has since been taken down, and it was not archived. For most people, then, they were alerted to this issue through Liz’s video. This story has taken numerous twists and turns since the news broke, but I’ll try to keep it simple by summarizing Liz’s video, which is embedded above.
The $1.35M Coach
This story involves Canadian RVers Brian and Jennifer, who purchased a Newmar King Aire 4531 in 2022 for the equivalent of 1,350,000 USD. If you’re not aware of what Newmar is, the company was founded in 1968 by Marvin Newcomer and Mahlon Miller in Nappanee, Indiana. Newmar has been known for innovations; the company claims that it was the first to build a motorhome with powered slides in 1991. Other pioneering designs by Newmar include one of the first coaches to use full-body paint and one of the first coaches to have a roof-mounted awning rather than an awning secured to the sidewalls. The Newmar Corporation was acquired by Winnebago Industries in 2019.
Newmar is also known for having better quality than the competition, with its steel superstructures, high ceilings, and interiors with high-grade materials. In other words, many RV buyers consider Newmar to be a high-water mark for motorhomes, and people are more than happy to pay over a million dollars to get a coach with that Newmar name on it. This also seems to be part of why this story seems to sting so much for everyone involved.
Anyway, let’s get back to the story here. YouTuber Liz interviewed Brian and Jennifer, so I’ll just relay some of the info she mentions in her video. The Canadian couple told her they purchased the 45-foot-long luxury coach and thoroughly enjoyed it for a couple of years. Here’s what the inside of a million-dollar motorhome looks like:
The video notes that the couple took the coach on trips across the United States, successfully crossing the Canada-U.S. border more than once without issues. This year, the couple decided to sell the coach and chose Southwest Luxury Coaches of Phoenix, Arizona, to sell the coach to.
Brian says in the video that the original plan was that he would import the coach into the United States, and then a driver would meet him on the U.S.-side of the border, pick the coach up, and take it to the dealership in Arizona. Brian says he hired a brokerage company to handle the paperwork with U.S. Customs and Border Protection.
The Failed Importation
According to Brian, in April 2025, he attempted the importation of the motorhome. A Customs agent in Detroit looked over the coach and then eventually got back to Brian, claiming that his broker hadn’t filled out the paperwork correctly. Per Brian, the agent then allegedly said that the vehicle was not compliant with U.S. regulations because the agent thinks “the stickers are fraudulent.”
Per Brian, after a couple of days, Customs seemingly cleared him, then he met up with the driver, and the coach successfully drove to Arizona.
Around 10 days later, Brian says, he got an email from Customs demanding that he return the motorhome to the border crossing in Detroit because Customs ordered the coach to undergo a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration inspection. You’ll see the order in the above screenshot. The coach was sent back to Detroit, and nearly three weeks later, Customs allegedly told Brian that it had been denied entry, and the Newmar was released back into Canada.
The Import Falls Apart, Again
Here’s where things start getting weird. Brian says that, in the aftermath of the failed attempts to import, another plan was cooked up to get the coach to a dealership in Florida.
I have reached out to Scott at Southwest Luxury Coaches for his version of the story.
In July, Brian says he attempted to drive the coach through a border crossing in New York, per Liz’s video. Customs allegedly did not let him proceed. Brian says in the video that he admitted to the Customs agents in New York that he was trying to import the coach for a third time. The agent in New York then got an NHTSA inspector, confirmed the paperwork, and then attempted a visual inspection, per Brian.
Per the video, Brian and the Customs agents get Newmar President Casey Tubman on the phone. Together, they attempt, and apparently fail, to find a VIN on the motorhome’s chassis. They then go inside the coach, where they find three VIN labels, which were behind the driver’s seat, on a kitchen cabinet door, and in the rear of the coach. Allegedly, a Customs agent wasn’t fond of what they saw, claiming that none of the VIN stickers had self-destructing features and that none were adhered in a permanent manner.
I have reached out to Newmar regarding this incident, and the company’s response comes later in the story.
It Gets Worse
From here, Brian claims, Customs seizes the coach, as NHTSA allegedly wants to investigate if this VIN issue is more widespread. A couple of weeks later, Brian says, Customs has him pick up the coach, and later he receives a CBP penalty notice in the mail, which accuses Brian of attempting to import a vehicle without a compliant VIN. The penalty associated with this is $660,000. Brian claims that later, he was told that a Customs supervisor had found four Newmar coaches at a dealership with supposed VIN issues, and that the U.S. government was supposedly preparing an action against Newmar.
This has blown up into a huge firestorm reaching well beyond this single incident. The implication is that there could be a widespread VIN issue across the RV industry, and not just Newmar. Liz Amazing is calling it “VIN-gate.” Watch her video if you want to know the full story. Otherwise, you’re pretty much up to speed. Now, I’m going to try my best to explain what I have found to be going on here.
What’s Going On Here
First, let’s talk about the incident in New York.
The video suggests that the plan was to drive the coach to Florida, and then have the dealership and Newmar handle the rest. If this plan did not involve following through the import procedure at the border, this would have resulted in the motorhome being an illegal import. The importation has to be done at the time of entry. Yes, some states will transfer a Canadian title without the proper paperwork, but that doesn’t make the vehicle legal on the federal level. That is per my own conversations with Customs officials in the past.
None of the other sites that have reported on this have pointed out that the final attempt to import the Newmar was probably doomed from the start. If you’re wondering how big this VIN thing has gotten, even prominent car attorney, Steve Lehto, has also reported on this story:
In the United States, you are assumed to know the law. Sadly, this means that, while Brian might not have known about American import law, that wasn’t enough to get the government off his back. Even worse is that if your Customs broker messes something up, you’re the importer of record, not your broker. Thankfully, Brian was not necessarily fined $660,000, at least, not yet. He was only noticed of the violation and the penalty, and has the right to fight it. Brian has indicated that he has lawyered up.
Newmar Responds
At the end of her video, Liz says that Newmar and its parent company, Winnebago, did not respond to her request for comment. Newmar responded to Liz’s video with a firm rebuttal, stating that they responded a day before she published the video. This is the message that Newmar says it emailed to Liz:
Thank you for reaching out. We appreciate all that you do to advocate for RV owners. Unfortunately, I don’t believe you have all the facts regarding the incident with Mr. Warner and Mr. Buchanan (the purchasing used RV dealer).
Newmar does not discuss the specifics of warranty cases or customer inquiries outside of the direct customer relationship. However, I can share that I have already addressed these false claims publicly on the Endless RV YouTube channel. I would encourage you to watch my response, which can be viewed here. You can also refer to our post on our company social media platforms, linked here.
To be clear: All Newmar RVs, including RVs built on Spartan chassis, are in full compliance with all regulatory requirements. If you read Title 49 of the Code of Federal Regulations Section 567.4, linked here, particularly Sections (b) and (c), you can understand the requirements. These require that the final complete vehicle have a permanent label with the full 17-digit VIN and are different from the requirements applicable to passenger cars, MPVs, and light medium duty vehicles, which may require additional etching or stampings. In Newmar’s units the chassis VIN is permanently affixed behind the driver side seat on the column in each unit. As a courtesy, the chassis VIN number is also located on labels in the kitchen and closet.
Although this is not a requirement, chassis manufactured by Spartan also have the last five digits of the VIN stamped on the chassis in four locations: once on the main chassis frame rail behind the steering axle tires, both passenger and drivers’ side, and the same behind the drive axle tires.
Since 1968, Newmar has been the pinnacle of luxury, comfort, performance and design. We are passionate about what we do. Our love for the outdoors drives us to deliver standard-setting quality, durability, safety and reliability to the products we make. To that end, over the years, tens of thousands of Newmar owners have successfully traveled between borders without issue and they continue to do so, confidently.
If you are concerned with representing the issue fairly and accurately, I recommend you dig deeper into the stories from both the dealer and customer involved. The incident in question happened in May and is not a new ruling or law. Additionally, we are but one manufacturer using Spartan chassis, and to my knowledge, no other manufacturer has discovered any issue related to international crossings. In terms of communication with the consumer in question, Newmar was in direct communication, was then advised that the consumer retained counsel, and have been communicating appropriately since.
As one commenter in the iRV forum shared “I believe this supposed VIN issue is the creation of misunderstood “facts” or non facts. No one has explained the facts surrounding the seizure of a coach entering the US. This is one more example of overreaction to something without having the facts. I have a cousin who is a Customs Supervisor and he indicated if any seizure took place it was a lot more serious that a VIN number not being found. Enjoy your coaches!!”
Our commitment to our customers is unwavering and we stand behind every product we build. If any customer has a concern with a Newmar coach, all they need to do is contact us. We are here to help.
Liz, thank you again for reaching out.
Newmar then published a blog post, which states:
All Newmar RVs, including RVs built on Spartan chassis, are in full compliance with all regulatory requirements as outlined in the Code of Federal Regulations.
In Newmar’s units, the chassis VIN is permanently affixed behind the driver side seat on the column in each unit. As a courtesy, the chassis VIN number is also located on labels in the kitchen and closet. The stickers are designed to be tamper resistant and leave evidence of removal and are therefore considered permanent.
As a standard practice we continue to partner with our chassis supplier, outside counsel and NHTSA to ensure our continued compliance.
While regulations are often misinterpreted, as a second-stage manufacturer, we fully comply with all applicable standards—which differ from those governing single-stage, such as auto and commercial vehicle manufacturers.
Newmar then discussed Brian’s attempted border crossings. Brian doesn’t make it clear who cooked up the idea to get the motorhome to Florida, but Newmar says it was the dealership in Arizona. From Newmar:
After Newmar attempted to provide assistance, Mr. Warner decided to follow Southwest Luxury Coach’s suggestion (a non-authorized Newmar dealer) to attempt importing his coach into the country again, in a manner which was misaligned with Newmar’s values. Subsequently, the government fine was issued to Mr. Warner.
As I said before, this has spiraled into something huge. Liz published a follow-up video, where she explains that she wasn’t trying to mislead viewers, but that she missed the message was an unfortunate case of poor timing. However, she doubled down on the non-compliant VIN allegations and added more details, which we’ll talk about in a moment.
About Those VINs
I spoke with and had an email conversation with Daniel Sullivan, Director of Communications at Winnebago Industries, which owns Newmar. During our conversation, we talked about the VIN on the chassis and inside the coach. Newmar is like most motorhome companies, and it does not build its own chassis. Instead, it receives chassis from manufacturers like Freightliner and Spartan and builds its coaches on top of them. Spartan currently supplies chassis to Newmar, Jayco, Entegra, and Foretravel.
Newmar and Spartan both say that their vehicles are fully compliant with regulations on VINs, and that, at this time, neither is aware of any pending investigations, lawsuits, recalls, or government action being taken outside of the issue surrounding Brian’s specific unit.
Daniel tells me that it is true that Spartan affixes the last five digits of the motorhome’s VIN to the chassis. However, Daniel disagrees with the border agent from Brian’s story about the main VIN sticker inside the coach. Newmar is firm on its statement that its VIN stickers are self-destructive, as they legally have to be.
Daniel also disagrees with the alleged statements about the sticker being adhered to removable wallpaper.
As I have written in the past, RV wallpaper, at least when it’s applied to a perimeter wall, is more of a bonded material and not a true wallpaper, which Daniel tells me is the case in a Newmar as well. You should not be able to just rip it off the wall like you could the wallpaper in your home. Daniel says that the VIN sticker behind the driver’s seat is attached to that permanent material, and thus, it should be compliant with the law.
Here’s the official statement from Newmar that Daniel sent me:
Newmar’s VIN labels are in compliance with U.S. law
– All Newmar RVs, including RVs built on Spartan chassis, are in full compliance with all regulatory requirements as outlined in the Code of Federal Regulations.
– In Newmar’s units, the chassis VIN is permanently affixed behind the driver side seat on the column in each unit. As a courtesy, the chassis VIN number is also located on labels in the kitchen and closet. The stickers are designed to be tamper resistant and leave evidence of removal and are therefore considered permanent.
– As a standard practice we continue to partner with our chassis supplier, outside counsel and NHTSA to ensure our continued compliance.
– While regulations are often misinterpreted, as a second-stage manufacturer, we fully comply with all applicable standards—which differ from those governing single-stage, such as auto and commercial vehicle manufacturers.
– Newmar is not party to any legal action nor is there any government action such as a recallNewmar owners can cross the border with confidence
– Newmar’s coaches cross the border every day without issue, whether for tourism or sale. Over the years, tens of thousands of Newmar owners have successfully traveled between borders without issue and they continue to do so.
– But, if a customer would like to sell their coach across an international border we recommend they fully understand the requirements of such a sale and use a reputable dealer and customs broker.
– Multiple other manufacturers also use a Spartan chassis, and to our knowledge, no other manufacturer has had any issue related to international crossings. To our knowledge, this is the first and only time this has happened in Newmar’s 57-year history.This situation underscores both our commitment and our challenge. While we will always stand behind our products and support our customers, we cannot control every decision made once the vehicle leaves our hands. However, what we can promise—and what we deliver every day—is a dedication to quality, reliability and customer service. This commitment is unwavering and should give our customers confidence in our support.
What Does The Law Say?
Now, let’s look at the Notice of Penalty that Brian received, which is screenshotted above. Customs claims that Brian violated 19 USC 1595a(b), 19 USC 1592, 19 USC 1627a, and 49 CFR 567.4.
19 USC 1595a(b) is Aiding Unlawful Importation, 19 USC 1627a is the Unlawful Importation of Certain Vehicles, and 49 CFR 567.4 is the VIN labeling requirement. 19 USC 1592 sets penalties for fraud, negligence, and gross negligence. We’ll focus on the VIN part, but feel free to read the others if you want some dry reading for your day. The relevant portion of § 567.4 Requirements for manufacturers of motor vehicles, is the first three statements:
(a) Each manufacturer of motor vehicles (except replica motor vehicles and vehicles manufactured in two or more stages) shall affix to each vehicle a label, of the type and in the manner described below, containing the statements specified in paragraph (g) of this section.
(b) The label shall be riveted or permanently affixed in such a manner that it cannot be removed without destroying or defacing it.
(c) Except for trailers and motorcycles, the label shall be affixed to either the hinge pillar, door-latch post, or the door edge that meets the door-latch post, next to the driver’s seating position, or if none of these locations is practicable, to the left side of the instrument panel. If that location is also not practicable, the label shall be affixed to the inward-facing surface of the door next to the driver’s seating position. If none of the preceding locations is practicable, notification of that fact, together with drawings or photographs showing a suggested alternate location in the same general area, shall be submitted for approval to the Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Washington, D.C. 20590. The location of the label shall be such that it is easily readable without moving any part of the vehicle except an outer door.
§ 565.13 General requirements describes where the VIN has to be:
(e) The VIN of each vehicle shall appear clearly and indelibly upon either a part of the vehicle, other than the glazing, that is not designed to be removed except for repair or upon a separate plate or label that is permanently affixed to such a part.
(f) The VIN for passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, low speed vehicles, and trucks of 4536 kg or less GVWR shall be located inside the passenger compartment. It shall be readable, without moving any part of the vehicle, through the vehicle glazing under daylight lighting conditions by an observer having 20/20 vision (Snellen) whose eye-point is located outside the vehicle adjacent to the left windshield pillar. Each character in the VIN subject to this paragraph shall have a minimum height of 4 mm.
NHTSA says that an incomplete vehicle needs to have a data label that has, among other things, the VIN. Manufacturers like Freightliner print the full VIN on a data plate attached to the chassis near the engine.
Liz Amazing asserts that RVs must have their full 17-digit VINs etched or riveted to the coach chassis. If this is true (and Newmar claims it’s not true), Newmar is not compliant with the partial VINs its chassis have:
An easy solution to this concern, I think, would be for Spartan to start etching all 17 digits into the chassis.
The Additional Concern
It appears that the biggest issue here is with the locations of the VIN stickers and whether or not they are actually permanently affixed and are self-destructing.
Brian says in Liz Amazing’s video that he sent pictures to Liz — pictures that suggest that his coach does not have any VIN on its chassis. The Customs agents and NHTSA agent who inspected his coach then allegedly believed that the stickers were not compliant because they were not self-destructive and that they were mounted to allegedly easily destroyed surfaces.
In my conversations with Daniel, it was agreed that there could be something wrong with Brian’s coach, and he told me that Newmar is complying with the authorities. However, since Newmar is not willing to comment in greater detail, we do not know the extent of Brian’s issue outside of his story and the paperwork he has been willing to show thus far.
The bigger issue being brought to light by RV advocates is the idea that there could be a wider problem with VINs, as has been reported in various publications. If Newmar’s VIN stickers are not permanent and are not self-destructive, that would violate the above regulation. Likewise, there is concern about whether Spartan’s stamping of only the partial VIN is either useful or compliant. If these VIN practices aren’t legal, then that could mean thousands of motorhomes, spanning multiple brands, are not legal.
Unfortunately, since everything I’ve reported on thus far has come through secondary sources, I cannot say whether the VIN stickers in Brian’s coach were compliant or not. Honestly, I think Newmar and Spartan could both gain some goodwill pretty easily. Offer to give everyone a riveted VIN plate. This headache would probably evaporate relatively quickly.
Through some additional research, I have found that, somehow, some even weirder VIN issues sometimes happen across RV brands. In the wake of Brian’s story, one iRV2 user says that their Jayco Class A motorhome had VINs that did not match their title, and no VIN on the chassis, and posted pictures for proof. Allegedly, some other people are claiming to have found non-matching VINs in Forest River and Tiffin Class A motorhomes, too. Liz Amazing says that she has received an outpouring of responses from people saying that their coaches from a variety of brands and years are missing a VIN in one way or another:
Now, it should be noted that it is common for motorhomes to have two different VINs, because the underlying van or truck chassis has its own VIN, and the “house” built on it has a VIN as well. However, the chassis and house VINs that are present should match your documents and the other VINs in the unit. That regulation is detailed in 49 CFR 565.13(a). I will note that it is also common for motorhomes to have two manufacturing years, due to differences in when the chassis is built versus the body.
So, based on what we can verify, it does seem that there are some motorhomes out there with some sort of concerning VIN issue, be it two entirely different VINs, missing VINs, or allegedly non-compliant VINs. Again, Newmar states that its coaches are fully compliant with the law and that it has never had a VIN issue until now.
Are RV VIN issues widespread? It’s hard to say. Indeed, I have not found any investigations or government lawsuits into RV VINs. Newmar is correct about that. So, this could either be just the beginning of something big; a smaller, but still serious issue; or perhaps something more isolated.
Protect Yourself
Here’s how you can protect yourself: Locate your motorhome’s VIN placards, stickers, or plates. Verify that the VINs match and that those VINs match your documentation. If your coach is a Newmar on a Spartan chassis, you will find those VINs in the locations specified earlier in this post. The VIN plate on a coach with a Freightliner chassis is commonly found in the engine bay. If you find a discrepancy in a coach that you own, notify the manufacturer immediately. If you find a discrepancy in a coach that you’re looking to buy, I would advise you to walk away. This is also a great reason to inspect any camper of any kind before you buy it.
Finally, if you intend to sell a vehicle to anyone across the border in either direction, follow the proper way to export or import the vehicle. Contact a reputable Customs broker if you do not know how to do it. Do not just attempt to drive across the border. You might get away with it, but you could potentially screw someone else down the line.
Otherwise, I will continue to monitor this issue and give you updates as they come. Do you think your motorhome has a VIN issue? Please send me an email at mercedes@theautopian.com.
To Wrong-Sue, thanks for everything, truly – Newmar
Related story:
I had a car overly zealous car wash guy take off my VIN sticker on my GM truck with his pressure washer.
That sticker cost me $400 CAD.
I would point out that the fact that they drove back and forth across the border as tourists many times with no issues is irrelevant, because they weren’t importing the vehicle, they were just visiting for a time and returning home with it. No title paperwork was changing hands, so no VIN verification was required.
EDIT – also, is sending everyone a VIN plate to rivet to the chassis really a fix? People have run into lots of issues over the years with vintage cars that had their VIN plates removed for painting or restoration, then reattached with non-factory rivets, since that immediately registers visually as having been tampered with. The government might not be OK with thousands of random shops or individuals mounting their own plates, as that could lead to inconsistencies in mounting position/location and hardware used that will cause continuing problems in years to come with vehicles getting flagged for tampered VINs
I bet there’s a way to make my VIN plate idea work if it’s done as a recall. Of course, that’ll result in a bad look, but these companies are already dealing with bad PR right now, anyway.
They would have to have some sort of “global” settlement NHTSA with clearly spelled out procedures for how to do it, and every owner will probably have to keep an official explanation letter on NHTSA letterhead in their glovebox at all times
Once again, some low-information, low-salary US bureaucrat who has a grudge against foreign people with money makes a poor judgment call, costing a lot of people on both sides of the border undue annoyance, trouble and monetary harm.
Look for more of this in the coming months.
Looking at the decline in US tourism, I’d be expecting it to happen less, as more people avoid travelling there.
Nah. I get where you’re coming from, but the guy was informed the truck didn’t comply with federal regs. He could’ve figured the VIN issue out before trying again, or simply sell it in Canada, but he tried to be sneaky and sell it in Florida despite already being informed of the issue. He knew what he was doing was wrong.
“…but the guy was informed the truck didn’t comply with federal regs.”
The vehicle complies with federal regs in the same manner as all the other hundreds of Newmars which are produced in Indiana every year and are rolling around the North American Continent.
Had it been a Canadian build and a one-off sale in the US – I would see your point. But there’s no there there.
The B&C dude wasn’t solving for anything.
Regardless, the owner needed to try and solve the problem before trying to import it yet again, especially since Customs was saying it wasn’t legal for import. Even if he thinks it’s an error on Customs’ part, he shouldn’t have kept trying to bring it over until the issue was resolved. Or he could’ve just sold the thing in Canada and avoided the problem altogether.
I hear what you’re saying – but the RV markets where sellers can get the most money for resale – particularly for Luxury coaches – are Florida, Texas, Arizona and Montana. Not Canada.
And it sounds like the dealer involved was really wanting to get it into the US – because of course they want to make their commission on the resale. So they may have made certain promises – dismissing the Customs issue as one they could handle.
I have the feeling that if it had just been the family driving it down to Florida as if they were on vacation – This would have been a non-issue.
It’s a fascinating problem and the level of journalism on display is excellent – I wish we could have this kind of fact finding and resource assurance in political reporting.
That said, I cannot be moved to give a shit what is going wrong for people who dropped seven figures on a depreciating asset. They bought a hotel room they can drive around, and paid big for it. Now they’re trying to ramrod it through the border – three times, folks, the rest of us would have just settled for selling it locally and gone on about our business – because that’s what rich people do. They get their way.
Great writeup about a problem that happens to people whose situation is so far beyond mine, I view them as a different species.
No one must have wanted to pay close to what they thought it was worth in CA. The fact they tried to do this and drove it all over both countries to try multiple different crossings is insane to me. But it just tells me, no one in the entire country of Canada was interested at a price they could stomach. It had to go to Florida where theres lots of folks with more money than brains living to get it sold.
I have family north of the border, so I can see this from both sides.
In general the wage scale (not necessarily the quality of life) in the US is quite some ways higher than north of the border. The population and therefore number of potential customers is also 10 times higher down here.
I buy and sell used telescopes. Many Canadians post their ads on US marketplaces. Sadly the trade war really put a damper on these activities. Unless the buyer and seller are reasonably nearby and can meet up, it’s not practical.
Ramrodding things to get their way, rules be damned, is a common trait among people who can spend $1m on an RV
Another well written, interesting read. Thank you.
I felt bad for the couple up until the third attempt to finagle their way across the border, that’s an absolutely lame-brained idea, especially when dealing with a 1.35million dollar vehicle. I used to haul Costco freight from Portland Oregon to various stores from BC to Manitoba and as far north as Grand Prairie, and the border people do NOT fuck around, your paperwork has to be absolutely flawless and they know everything about you and your vehicle before you even get to the front of the line entering the checkpoint.
I hope Brian and Jennifer are eventually VINdicated…
Dammit.
Maybe Brian and Jennifer can fight bureaucracy with technicality: The CBP’s “Notice to Mark and/or Notice to Redeliver” pertains to a “KINGMIRE RV MOTORHOME”, but their rig is clearly a Newmar King Aire. Take that, revenuers.
Also, their names are Jennifer and Brian, not Mark and/or Redeliver.
The thing that blows my mind is just how often government officials misspell things. The title for one of my Smarts identifies it as a “SMART LEE.” What the heck is a Smart Lee?
When a Smart car and a Chang Li love each other very much…
I understand that Jason is promoting some scheme for people to put the VIN tags in their mouths — could this be related?
Okay – Who has the Vin in their mouth being mean to little kids?
Newmar sounds strangely defensive. It seems like they’ve been getting away with half-assed compliance for half a century.
But the US Customs also seems to be unnecessarily hostile over nitpicked issues. I guess they are just doing their best to turn the US into a hostile country towards all foreigners.
Vehicle import has always been a bureaucratic frustration. While the US .gov itself has sovereign immunity, no individual agent wants to get dinged for allowing an unsafe vehicle on US roads or – particularly in the case of VIN shenanigans – potentially losing their jobs for failing to catch on to theft rings or VIN duplication in the service of theft, insurance fraud, or other issues.
I’m wondering if they’ve been placing themselves in the exemption made for vehicles that are built in “two or more stages.” A simple meeting would fix this.
Even simpler, budget an hour’s labor into each chassis to stamp the whole VIN into several different, non-removable places on the chassis.
A non-matching or non-compliant VIN is not a nitpicked issue.
My first thought is that it should be no surprise to anyone that an RV company is cutting corners somewhere, even on a $1M example. The most helpful part of the article is the end where readers are instructed to check their VINs. That’s solid advice for any thing with a serial number.
I used to have a lot of high end photo gear in the 1980s that had the serial number affixed to the cheapest most removable part. For example a thousand dollar light meter with the serial number on the slide off battery cover. I took it in to get some warranty work at the factory service station because I had heard that it was the fastest. I walked up to the counter and said that it was being weird, and a weird light meter could cost thousands of dollars and missed deadlines, a very big deal.
The guy at the counter looked at it and said “that’s indeed weird, are you in a hurry?” I said I was — meters are the one thing you don’t want to rent — and the tech grabbed a new one of the shelf, swapped serial numbers and handed it back to me.
I always thought that was sort of weird.
It’s kind of like electric guitars. Fenders have the serial numbers on the headstocks, which is while being and expensive component, do wear and are not uncommonly replaced. I’ve seen some brands (Jackson comes to mind) that have the serial number on the neck plate which is very easily swapped (well actually a re-string short of replacing the headstock, so not THAT easy but it’s still a sub $10 part).
The only one I can think of that makes sense is that Gibsons have the SN on the headstock but their necks are glued to the body effectively making it one piece.
I promise I had a point with that, but things kind of took a tangent. It was early and my caffeine was just barely kicking-in…
Great article. Thanks for acknowledging that there are unknown facts and for not presenting any side here as being right. You took what appears to be a bad situation and gave us the information necessary to avoid it for ourselves. Well done and I don’t even care about RVs.
Trailers are even worse than RVs. I bought an enclosed motorcycle trailer made here locally (I’m in South Bend, just west of Elkhart), and the vin sticker was on the exterior wall. Within two years that sticker had failed and fell off. I had to get the manufacturer print me a new one, which I installed inside the trailer so the sticker would be protected from the elements.
My 1980s U-Haul camper had the same problem. U-Haul adhered the VIN plate on the exterior, and who knows when it left the chat.
Thank god it only took me an extra ~5 minutes at the SOS to correct the VIN on my ’81 Camaro, which apparently had swapped an “H” (for V8) in the VIN with a “4” at some point before then and when my uncle bought the car new.
I didn’t catch it when I glanced at the title, but my insurance agent did when she went to add it to my policy, since the VIN didn’t actually exist.
All SOS asked me to do was sign a seemingly random piece of paper basically asking me “Are you sure you’re not lying to us?” and then they corrected it on my new title for the vehicle.
I had a similar experience. While waiting in line to register my little camping/utility trailer in my new state I realized the VIN on the title from the old state didn’t match the bill of sale/actual VIN. I basically just had to sign saying I wasn’t a liar and they held the title for 8 weeks or something to ensure it wasn’t stolen.
I am sure there has been far, far more pain and suffering caused by VINs than prevented by it. Great concept, terrible execution. See also the joys of notarized signatures for title transfers.
Blatant criminals do not care, they will steal your car either to joyride, or to break for parts, with or without a VIN or title. And I’ve not once heard of anyone bothering to verify if a used engine or transmission VIN they are buying was marked as stolen. Or any whole vehicle buyer ask to verify the VINs on the chassis, trans, and engine, outside of getting a numbers matching classic.
Meanwhile the rest of us can get caught up in ungodly amounts of paperwork and being in the circle of hell that contains the DMV because someone misplaced a letter or number, or some border patrol agent wants to make (potential) manufacturing flaws a problem of the customer and not the original manufacturer.
The VIN is there. Does the paperwork for that VIN say that the owner/driver is the legal owner? Okay. Let him sell the thing. Are we really that concerned about someone selling knockoff RVs with duplicate VINs?
My state has had a massive epidemic of trailer theft, and they’ve “solved” it by making it impossible to title or register any trailers that don’t have the full, completely, easily legible, factory VIN plate on them. On some manufacturers, because a lot of trailer manufacturers are basically a couple of guys in a rented storage unit with a blowtorch and some Harbor Freight parts, the VIN is just a sticker on the tongue – any guess on how those hold up after a couple of decades of outdoor storage? If the VIN is missing or no longer legible, the trailer becomes a yard ornament, there’s no way to ever make it legal for the road again, none. You can sell it to somehow out of state where they don’t worry so much, or you can scrap it and use the parts to build a new trailer around the VIN plate of a different one, but that’s about it. Also, trailers still get stolen all the time, a local BBQ place had their mobile kitchen trailer stolen from right in front of their restaurant, it was wrapped all the way around with their logos and graphics, and the whole parking lot was well lit and covered by security cameras, but they did it anyway. Of course, that one got dumped in a parking lot after a week with a lot of equipment missing, but landscaping trailers just disappear all the time.
Exactly, the cure is worse than the disease for the vast majority of law abiding citizens, and I doubt anyone with criminal intent is actually caught based on a VIN. It just becomes an accessory charge for whatever else they got arrested for.
Theft is the issue – if the only VIN to be found on the vehicle is in the form of an easily-replicated sticker affixed to a non-permanent surface, then literally anyone could swap it out at will. I get that thieves don’t really care when they’re stealing stuff to joyride it and part it out, but thieves do care when they try to resell. A non-matching or sketchy VIN should be a foolproof way of immediately seeing that something isn’t right. US VIN laws are not new and haven’t been futzed with by Glorious Leader, so companies should know full well what they need to do to build compliant vehicles.
There really should not be any confusion here. Why do we allow there to be multiple different VINs? There should be one single number based on the chassis as originally manufactured, stamped or etched into a visible area of the chassis. Any other identifying codes should be internal company use, not a legal identifier. For bare chassis or chassis cab vehicles where a given chassis may leave the chassis build plant in a generic multipurpose configuration to be decided by the body builder, that VIN should be replicated on the custom body and the VIN should be assigned a vehicle class at title transfer or registration.
But again, my point is that this is a issue that should be dealt with by the US govt. at the US based manufacturer level to improve documentation, not by seizing a foreign nationals property until they figure this out. This is not the fault of the person attempting to sell their vehicle, even if the multiple attempts to import it are pretty pigheaded.
VIN theory and research is fascinating to me. In my experience I’ve never personally referenced an RV plate-to-VIN that didn’t refer to the chassis. So the existence of two VINs on a vehicle, incomplete or not, kind of baffles me. If it’s a Spartan, your registration will tell the authorities it’s a Spartan, not a Newmar.
I also cannot believe there would be any instances of a chassis manufacturer not putting the full VIN permanently somewhere (or multiple somewheres) on said chassis. I think that’s the biggest news in this story.
While I don’t have much experience with RVs I do have a lot of experience with their cousins, walk in trucks, which are also built on chassis built by another mfg. Now I didn’t handle the titles I did see the registration documents which contain the same info. So yeah they were titles in my state as a Chevy P-30 Ford F-59, Freightliner MT-45, Isuzu LRR in the MFG and Model fields and the VIN followed that mfg’s numbers. Somewhere on the body would be a sticker noting the company that finished the vehicle, tire sizes, weight limits, the mfg of the incomplete vehicle and the VIN from the incomplete vehicle. While I never looked for them specifically I saw a lot of full VINs on the driver’s side frame rail just behind front axle center line.
This. How can a chassis be delivered without a full VIN stamped into, or at least, riveted to it?
we were talking about this at work today, and my first thought was “huh mercedes has yet to write an article about this”
We’ve sort of been waiting this out a little bit to see where the dust settles. It’s been a wild ride!
It is just not RVs. My parents bought a car manufactured in Canada for the American market. The VIN did not match the paperwork. The dealer blamed the manufacturer who blamed the dealer for putting on the wrong plate, and the dealer said the manufacturer puts the plates on the car. They were supposed to get paperwork saying the VIN is wrong and here is the right one. HUGE red flag. They finally got it but could not register it due to issues. End result, they sold the car to another dealer for a huge loss just to make it go away. Lawyers won’t touch it and they have a car they don’t really want but it can be registered.
How can this eVIN be an issue? 😉
It is just not RVs. My parents bought a car manufactured in Canada for the American market. The VIN did not match the paperwork. The dealer blamed the manufacturer who blamed the dealer for putting on the wrong plate, and the dealer said the manufacturer puts the plates on the car. They were supposed to get paperwork saying the VIN is wrong and here is the right one. HUGE red flag. They finally got it but could not register it due to issues. End result, they sold the car to another dealer for a huge loss just to make it go away. Lawyers won’t touch it and they have a car they don’t really want but it can be registered.
Double post.
First one claimed it failed. *mutters at computer*
Hey now that I can comment, I just want to say that I’d love to meet the Autopian reader/member who owns a million dollar RV.
I’ve actually been in the Newmar factory, and they almost seem worth the money.
Sorry about that! It looks like the checkbox to disable comments was mysteriously checked. As usual, I’m just going to blame Kinja. 🙂
Makes sense, but I never remember seeing an article where comments were disabled purposely.
Just can’t imagine y’all not wanting to hear from us.
That’s a “fun” callback!
Ah the days of fighting Kinja…
My parents bought a 40′ DutchStar over 20 years ago to live in full time- but it was only about $200,000 direct from the factory.
$200k 20 years ago is probably at least over half a million now.
So I don’t think Mercedes is going to get un-shadow banned by the RV industry anytime soon. Great read and deep dive!
Facts I am glad to know even if I will never own an RV. Thanks for the informative article.
I’m sure US Customs would gladly overlook this if Canada agreed to become the 51st state. /s
Them’s fighting words, hockey sticks at 10 meters at dawn
Followed by heartfelt apologies all around.
you forgot the tactical geese deployment, but that may be a touch too extreme to be honest.
Last time Canadians were that pissed, it didn’t go well for Dierks…
https://youtu.be/HFvrKovXCfI?si=ZTVh1A8iMvXTyeUZ
TAKE OFF, EH!!!
Hey, pump the brakes, eh?