Something just occurred to me about this new Let’s Make A Deal idea, something I hadn’t thought of. I’ve just given myself fifty percent more work when it comes to finding cars. I don’t feel like doing that, so here’s how it’s going to work: Yesterday’s winner advances, gains a new challenger, and there’s a new mystery car. We’ll keep going like that until Friday, when I’ll figure out how to wrap this all up.
Yesterday’s winner was the super-clean Chrysler Concorde, a fine machine if not a particularly exciting one. The Pontiac Bonneville came in a fairly close second, and 188 of you were brave enough to choose the mystery car.
Would the Chrysler have still won, if the mystery car option wasn’t there? Was there some amount of Ross Perot Effect going on there? We’ll never know.
So not that it matters, because it didn’t win, but what was the mystery car yesterday? To quote Samuel L. Jackson, hold on to your butts…
1988 Buick Skyhawk – $1,000
And some of you thought it was going to be a Ford Tempo. Ha! You should be so lucky. This lesser-known J car is for sale at a tow yard in South Carolina. It’s a repo, which means someone was making payments on it, I guess? Or not making payments, as it were? I can’t even make a joke about that. If you’ve had a Buick Skyhawk repossessed, you’ve got enough problems without me piling on.
I imagine the badge on the back sums up how most of you feel about this car. The Skyhawk was available with either the Cavalier’s 2.0-liter pushrod engine or the 1.8-liter OHC from the Pontiac Sunbird. I have no idea which one this car has. Either way, it’s eighty-something horsepower going through a three-speed automatic. But hey, it only has 76,000 miles on it, and the interior isn’t as dreadful as you’d guess.
All right; enough about that. Let’s do a quick recap of the Concorde, just in case any of you missed it yesterday.
1994 Chrysler Concorde – $2,500
Engine/drivetrain: 3.3-liter OHV V6, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: New Lebanon, OH
Odometer reading: 165,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
I know a lot of you aren’t big Mopar fans, so this car’s victory yesterday surprised me a little. I think its super-clean condition gave it the edge; that Bonneville wasn’t bad, but it was a little rough around the edges. This is also not your typical Mopar. The early to mid 1990s were a good time for Chrysler; new ideas were flowing after years of K-car stagnation, and this car was the first fruit of those ideas. It’s a hell of a car, and this is a fine example.
It’s sort of an “old man” spec, with the base 3.3-liter engine and a bench seat, but that also probably means it was treated gently. It has 165,000 miles on it, but you’d never guess from looking at these pictures. Is it still your top pick, though? Let’s take a look at its rival and find out.
1995 Saturn SL2 – $3,500
Engine/drivetrain: 1.9-liter DOHC inline 4, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: Lynnwood, WA
Odometer reading: 82,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
Now this is a different kind of car, from a different kind of company – or so GM led us to believe back in the 1990s. That lasted about a decade before Saturn devolved into just another GM brand, and then got the ax during the post-bankruptcy restructuring. But those ’90s Saturns were pretty cool cars, and this is a good example. It’s an SL2, with the twin-cam engine and some other sporty touches, and it’s in great shape.
Saturn rather pompously referred to its engine and transmission as a “power module,” and it came in four flavors: single- and double-overhead-cam engines were both available with four-speed automatic and five-speed manual transmissions. The SOHC cars were geared for economy, while the DOHC engines got shorter gearing to make better use of its extra power. And they’re a lot more fun. This car has only 82,000 miles on it, all from the same owner. It runs and drives great, and comes with maintenance records. Can’t ask for more than that.
No one is ever going to mistake a first-generation Saturn for anything other than an economy car, even the “fancy” SL2 model. There’s an awful lot of hard gray plastic inside, and the seats are only so-so comfort-wise. This one is a little short on options; it has crank windows and probably manual door locks as well. It has sheepskin seat covers, which, in this case, I imagine were installed for protection or comfort rather than to hide damage.
The outside looks great too, and it doesn’t get more mid-’90s than teal. Saturns, of course, famously use plastic for all the vertical body panels to avoid dents, but the underlying structure is steel, and can rust. The seller helpfully includes a couple of under-car photos in the ad, and it’s as clean as a whistle under there.
Mystery Car – $?
Tomorrow’s mystery car can’t possibly be as bad as today’s, can it? It isn’t. It’s much shinier and way more expensive. But it probably isn’t everyone’s cup of tea.
I’m still playing with this format, and I’m not sure it’s going to stick around, but I’ll stick it out for the week and see how it goes. Let me know in the comments if you’re digging it. In the meantime, it’s business as usual, with a new twist. Vote for your favorite, or take a chance on the unknown.
MY-STER-Y!
MY-STER-Y!!
MY-STER-Y!!!
Roll them bones!!!
The Concorde’s nice and all, but that Saturn is *chef’s kiss*
I’m digging the “Let’s Make A Deal” format, Mark. Since you asked, my humble opinion is that Monday should be two cars and a mystery car, and the next day the revealed mystery car (winner or not) goes against the next car and another mystery car, and so on for the week. You still only write about 2 cars/day, the practicality police get a bailout option; everybody wins.
Do you keep your “prize”, trade it for the new one, or pick door number 3?
I stand by my decision to take the mystery car yesterday. I acknowledge the Bonneville and Concorde are better transportation appliances than the Buick, but let’s be serious – I could go to any used car lot and get a far more modern transportation appliance for the same money as the Bonneville or Concorde. I can’t, however, do much better than $1,000 for the ‘ick. It may be craptacular, but my tolerance for craptacularness is directly inverse to asking price.
“It’s much shinier and way more expensive. But it probably isn’t everyone’s cup of tea.”
Given the positive comments for yesterday’s cars as well as the positive comments for today’s Saturn, I clearly have different (translation: better) tastes than the average commenter here. I’m probably going to prefer the nicer but more expensive vehicle. My only concern is that Mark is going to serve up a gaudy neoclassic like an Excalibur or Zimmer. If that happens, I might have to reevaluate my strategy for this week. For the moment, though, I’m sticking with door number 3.
I applaud your good taste. $3500 is far too much for such ancient and boring cars. These aren’t fine wines, a boring commuter like that Saturn doesn’t get better with age.
You say “Zimmer” like that would be worse than an Ick?
That Saturn is nice.
I voted mystery yesterday and should have picked the Bonneville.
That said, Skylarks were nicer than Cimarrons. At least GM gave it a nicer dash instead of the one straight from the Cavalier.
Manny tranny plastic car from the land of much mildew but no rust!
It’s the perfect 90s teal, has half the miles of the Mopar, and will be more fun to thrash around town. In the age of Republican fuel prices, the mpg difference will be no joke as well.
It’s the right car for the Trump economy.
BTW, I’d give that $1000 Skyhawk a try. Not a terrible deal if it runs. There’s probably a drug stash in there worth as much as the car, so you’re really breaking even.
Guaranteed one K-car as the mystery car. Not gonna pick that. Saturn.
I’ve driven one of those Saturns, not sure what spec but it was a manual. The one I drove had seen better days and had no muffler at the time, but it was still a fun drive. It also had the heaviest clutch of anything I’ve ever driven, though I’m not sure if that was inherent to those Saturns or just the shabby example I drove. Either way, this one is in an excellent shade of teal and has been maintained well, so it’s got my vote.
I recall driving a manual SL1 ages ago, while it was long long ago, I still recall it being better than I expected.
I like this format, but I’ve seen UHF. I know what you get when you pick the mystery box.
NOTHING!!!
YOU GET NOTHING!!!
You get to drink from the fire hose?
STUPID! YOU’RE SO STUPID!
The Saturn is an okay car. It gets my vote. Maybe it’s the fact that it has an extra pedal that caused me to swing that way.
The Chrysler is a ticking time bomb.
I took at look at the FB ad for the Skyhawk and it instructs you to “Tell them KennyG sent you”.
I know we got really sick of that tenor sax but I didn’t realize he had fallen off so far he was selling repossessed Skyhawks.
When I hear “Kenny G”, I think “ick”.
It’s an alto sax, not a tenor; but we’re in that interregnum before the holiday music season kicks back in on radio. Come the day after Halloween, it’ll be Christmas on the airwaves and Kenny will start getting fatter checks again.
In the meantime, tell ’em you want the Skyhawk he sent you for.
Also: My man Gorelick got his start in the BARRY WHITE LOVE UNLIMITED ORCHESTRA. How does one go from something with so much groove and funky soul to …. Songbird?
Although I admit that it was a huge hit and interesting to catch on the radio in like 1990.
You’re both technically correct, but also wrong. He is most known for playing a soprano sax, which is visually distinct since it is straight, and looks kind of like a metal clarinet. (There are straight alto saxes also, but they are not very common).
According to “The Internet” he also occasionally plays alto and tenor along with other instruments.
I thought he was a soprano sax guy.
@Mark Sanfilippo Tucker, for this gambit to work as intended, you have to do it one of two ways:
1. Two decent cars each day and one desireable mystery car for the whole week, with the reveal at the end, to show folks what they missed out on. The unknown car will never win when there are two reasonable knowns.
2. Two shit boxes and a mystery car each day. So the daily question becomes, how bad do the knowns have to be before folks gamble on the unknown.
I think the mystery car needs to have some more boundaries. Since we are spending our own (imaginary) money on this it makes it hard to pick. If I had to roll the dice on a mystery $500 car, I’m much more willing than a mystery $10,000 car, especially if I have no way of knowing if it is actually worth the asking price.
A teal manual Saturn!?! HELL TO THE YES!!!!
It could only be better if it were a wagon.
Oh, that would be AMAZING!
Came here to say, the only way that gets better is if it was a SW2 instead.
Mystery car is super tempting, but that Saturn is amazing and I can’t pass that up. Concorde? Didn’t vote for it yesterday, and didn’t even consider it today either.
My dad had that exact SL2, bought new in 1995, in that color.
I later had an SC2.
Great little cars, just watch the oil burning.
See, you should’ve saved the Skyhawk for later in the week. You hook the gamblers with some easy money, then when you screw them later, they keep going, sinking deeper into the sunk cost fallacy…
Anyway, stick shift plastic fantastic FTW. The Chrysler still nice, but so is that Saturn, which is a great color, a stick, and probably one of the coolest things ’90s GM ever made.
This is a tough one. PNW car always beats Rust Belt car so the Saturn has the advantage. 5 speed manual in a fun car would be great but the Saturn is an A – B beater and my A-B commute is mostly gridlock so an auto is prefered.
Lets roll the dice again, surely we can find something better for $3500. (I know I can within 50 miles of my house)
Aw damnit, I definitely would have voted for the Ick yesterday if I knew more about it. What a delightful little crap can!
I’ll go with the Saturn today. Low mileage and hard plastic inside and out FTW.
Edit- I would have bought the Ick and tracked down the previous owner to give it back to them. If you had a 1988 J-body repossessed you deserve a lucky break in life.
Hasn’t that poor guy suffered enough already
I mean, it could still have any random previous owner’s spirit still IN the car…if it was a “possessed” Skyhawk! Ha ha
I have to assume the previous owner of the ‘ick is in jail.
The Concorde had a birdstrike with a Skyhawk over Bonneville yesterday.
Today, the Saturn shall rocket over the Concorde.
I did own a couple of 5-speed SOHC Saturns over my life. In this time of high gas prices (again) I recall them being quite infrequent and painless to fill at the pump. I’m down with trying the second camshaft version of them.
The Mrs. had an SL1 with a stick and I remember getting around 40 MPG on the highway. So I’ll stick with the stick and go for the Saturn today. Plus Teal!
The Concorde will probably need a transmission before I get it home and I don’t like surprises so the boring but reliable Saturn is my play money choice today.
Well, it’s either the Saturn or the mystery car. Voting for the mystery car yesterday, I ended up with ICK. That Saturn is remarkably well preserved, so I think I’ll go with it.
Easy win for the saturn today — legitimately great deal at 3500.
$3,500 for a 31 year old commuter car is not even close to a good deal.
I dunno, people drop tens of thousands on air cooled Beetles still.
I own two air-cooled Beetles. I am deeply offended by your implication that my fine German machines are on the level of a ’90s meh-mobile commuter sedan.
I demand satisfaction. I hereby challenge you to a duel.
Challenge accepted. Slap fight at dawn.
Depends entirely on how long it runs before needing additional money put into it.
$3,500 can get someone a much newer boring GM commuter car
https://www.cargurus.com/details/445639536?resultSetId=5b5d28a3-d510-4b43-973d-103adb5b11d5&searchUuid=2cfa27b8-198c-4290-b6f8-0f822bb98327&sponsoredType=NONE&srpVariation=DEFAULT_SEARCH&listingIndex=6&inclusionType=DEFAULT&searchZip=97124&searchDistance=50&ourls=SRP&srpc=N4IghgZgxiBcoBMCWBnALmAdlApnArAAwA0IKA9gE5oAiSlOUaS5mcIAggMoDCIpFagBUAngAc8sEDQCiHADIB9XgHkASjP4gAXkjHsAnAHYAjACYALFoC2STAAVKSXHDNESIa2AAej55IBmd1IvbwBZJAAbHDAAc0kTC0JkjxRKMQA1MCcwZlZ2WQAxDgBVeSFlOTUeAAkQAF9SJm84UEikBDgLC3wANgCDfADe0jFYuBMBAFcpjvYzKAgwMyMAIwAOAFoTA3WoTYszA0JN1d6ILcILszNV1d2Ala0xsHYcEQApLwAND%2B0EQoAIQAFgAtMwlJAqABWMm08h4HwA7gBNADqCEiQiQAElemEhAA5AwNepAA
Even the boring people I know would rather have the 90’s Saturn over an Aveo.
Well, you’ve now met a boring person who apparently would rather have an Aveo.
Spending real dollars – yes.
You must know some weird people then.
Give the typical used car buyer looking for basic A to B transportation a choice between a 1995 car and a 2014 car and they will take the newer car.
However I’m talking about people spending real dollars.
I think Aveo still has poverty stench on it. A 90s Saturn looks and feels like something you choose to drive – it has personality and frankly is probably just as if not better to drive and own in reality.
As much as I love Saturns, my feelings on this matter might have more to do with how sucky the Aveo is than how good the Saturn is.
People struggling to pay bills can get over a lot of “poverty stench”.
Sure, but there’s plenty of people who would believe these two cars would perform equally. Why not take the one that’s unique and interesting versus the one that’s basically a worst-case scenario rental car? That Saturn looks like it’s been taken care of better than basically any other car ever.
I think sometimes people are a little more complicated than the commentariat gives them credit for. There’s a whole spectrum of situations and preferences, and there’s plenty of non-enthusiasts out there that would rather have that Saturn over the rental car. That Saturn is sort of a have your cake and eat it too economy car, it’s both a *reasonable economic choice and a curiosity at the same time.
*This is all relative. Personally if someone has 3500$ for a car, they should probably buy a newish Corolla and keep it for a decade or two. The 3500$ car market is a risk no matter how you slice it, and a 2014 Aveo isn’t without risk.
I don’t personally know anyone looking for a basic car for transportation that views a 12 year old car and a 31 year old car as equal. Not in desirability or projected reliability.
The Saturn is just an older rental car.
The reality is that most people with $3500 to spend on a car do not have the credit to buy new or newish Corolla. That is how we get repossessed $1,000 Buicks.
The repossessed Skyhawk is probably the saddest thing I’ve heard about all week. And I got sucked into a North Korea gulag documentary via YouTube autoplay last night.
That has nothing to do with what I wrote. Show me a Yaris with that mileage and price and then you will have selected something just about guaranteed to require less maintenance and repair than the Saturn, and you will have also addressed my comment rather than simply given me your preference.
A car that is 15 years older is more likely to break down and need repairs. Past a certain point age is more important than miles because plastic gets brittle, vacuum hoses crumple, wire insulation breaks down……
A 2015 Yaris would cost more because of the Toyota Tax. I showed you a car from the same manufacturer. Another boring commuter car. Just one of many options
Personally a car that has averaged less than 2500 miles a year scares me. Give me a car that has been getting regular use any day. Much rather have a newer daily driver than Grandma’s last car that sat for years.
Aware of all this, but thanks for a lecture drier and more brittle than the Saturn’s wiring harness. A 2011 Aveo is a dice roll. A $3500 car is a dice roll. You’d better inspect the individual unit carefully.
If the Saturn runs a few years without needing much of anything in repairs, that’s not a bad deal for $3500.
Any used car is a roll of the dice. However thinking a 95 Saturn is going to need less repairs than a 2014 Aveo is rolling the dice with really poor odds and no jackpot to win.
What odds, precisely? And over what time period? 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? If you’re going to be this pedantic, let’s hear some specifics.
I can’t believe you are actually arguing that a 1995 car will be more reliable than one from 2014.
I’m not going to argue for basic common sense. If you can’t see it you can’t see it.
The reason you can’t believe it is because I didn’t argue that it would be more reliable. I argued it’s not a bad deal if it gives a few years of service without breaking and that an old Aveo isn’t a safe bet either.
“Depends entirely on how long it runs before needing additional money put into it”.
“If the Saturn runs a few years without needing much of anything in repairs, that’s not a bad deal for $3500”
“Depends entirely on how long it runs before needing additional money put into it”.
This is directly related to reliability. A newer car is more likely to go a few years without needing repairs. Therefore for the same price a newer car is a better deal.
Either the Aveo I found or the 2020 Malibu that was mentioned by someone else. Or a whole host of cars that are decades newer than 1995.
I’m speaking for experience here. I have direct experience trying to keep a GM product that is more than 20 years old running and passing inspection. It wasn’t fun.
It would have been even less fun if I was paying a mechanic shop rates to chase vacuum hoses and wires.
“a” GM product? As in, one?
What kind of confidence interval can I construct with a sample size of one? And by “more likely”, are we talking 75% vs 70%? 75% vs 25% Or 3% vs 2%? It matters. Those are all differing probabilities but with very dissimilar implications.
I did a Cargurus search for $3000-3800 in my area. And that Saturn still isn’t looking too bad. That’s a rough price category. A lot of 4-5 owner vehicles, many with accident or salvaged title histories, with nearly 200K miles. A lot of Nissan CVTs and problem-era H/K motors.
Btw, where are you finding a 2020 Malibu for $3500 that wasn’t rolled into a ditch? That’s suspiciously low.
See the Stig’s comment below for the Malibu comment.
We simply aren’t going agree on whether or not increased age makes a car more likely to need repairs
Such a long link for so small a car
It is good to see someone here has some common sense.
A lot of people here have common sense. This is entertainment and banter, not a real purchase.
I see any $3500 car as a dice roll for those who cannot fix it themselves in their driveway.
The common sense use of $3500 is to jump on the $2999 down, $229/month lease on a Corolla LE, buy it out at the end of the lease, and keep it for 20 years. But it would get kind of old posting that on every Sh*tbox Showdown.
Ugh. How boring this common sense is. Or, use the 3 grand and buy a motorcycle. Less logic, most fun.
Heck yeah! Even in the SF Bay Area, $3K can get you all sorts of interesting bikes, including a 2007 Ducati Monster.
Now that is how you spend 3 grand. Life insurance policy extra…
Now we are talking! Lots of fun options for a $3500 budget in the motorcycle world.
Fair point about using the $3500 for a down payment on a Corolla. I can’t argue with that.
I was just reacting to the “$3500 for an ancient plastic General Motors econoshitbox is a great deal!” I do not understand the enthusiasm for Saturn – I would have a hard time saying any Saturn with a four-digit price tag is a good deal. I don’t get why people like them, but it is great that people like them (or any car).
I would disagree about a $3500 car being a dice roll, though. I occasionally see well-kept 2000s Civics and Corollas with moderate miles for less than that. Obviously, they would need a thorough inspection, but I think one of those in good condition could be expected to be reliable. Cars improved dramatically with respect to longevity from 1990 to 2000, so while I would have a hard time saying any ’90s product is a good bet for reliability (inspected or not), I would have a different opinion for some 2000s cars with a reputation for quality.
Yeah, I wouldn’t call the saturn a “great” deal either. But I still think $3500 is rough waters. I did a $3200-3800 blanket search for used cars within 500 miles of my western US metro area. The results were bleak, I’m glad I am not needing to shop in this price bracket.
I’d relying on history, maintenance, and the will of the gods to not need to sink more funds into it. From that perspective, a 15-year old Aveo doesn’t look much different than a saturn with far fewer miles.
Yeah, I’m happy I am able to spend more than $3500 on a car. I think if I were looking in the 3-5k range I would search for an EcoSport or Mirage. I’m amazed at how quickly those end up under $5,000. You can’t get one for $3500 yet, but I imagine these will be under that price soon. I have also seen some great deals on Versas, Sonics, and Malibus – under 10 years old, under 120k miles, and under $3000 in some cases.
I have argued before that we are somewhat paradoxically in a golden era of cheap cars. Yeah, almost all new cars are over $25k and you aren’t getting a decent used car for $2,000, but you can get something with years of relatively trouble-free life left for less than $5k if you know what to look for. Granted, you may not want to drive an EcoSport for the next 10 years, but if money is tight undesirable cars can be great values.
I’d rock an EcoSport if the depreciation was high enough. Tidy little footprint. Enough clearance to drive over curbs. The 2.0-liter and non powershift transmission should last awhile.
“ This is entertainment and banter, not a real purchase.”
I judge cars based on whether I would spend real money. My $3500 would never go to a 35 year old Saturn
A new Corolla makes much more sense than spending $3500 for an ancient and boring GM commuter car but also not the direction I would personally take
$3000 down and $299 a month will get someone about a $18,000 used car and there are a lot nicer 3-4 years old used cars out there that I would pick over a Corolla.
The 3-4yo used car market being the sweet spot vs new is not a new concept, Jason. It was just an example of putting practicality above all else.
If they don’t want me to be practical the Autopian staff are going to need to serve up some more interesting cars.
There is nothing at all I find interesting about a 1995 Saturn, or an old Chrysler, or an ancient Pontiac. None of these cars were desirable even when new and age only makes them less desirable.
Around me it sure is. Clean, manual, appears to be well maintained, and is simple to fix and repair. Most cars listing at 3 grand are beat to shit. Even your “counter” down below is an Aveo…an auto with 40k more miles (albeit clean). I’d gladly take the saturn over that too.
There is a 1994 Saturn will similar miles for $2500 within 10 miles of my house. That is on Car Guru which is almost all dealers.
$3500 on Marketplace open up all kinds of options.
How about a 2020 Malibu for $3900? This one looks clean.
Used 2020 Chevrolet Malibu FWD LT For Sale $3,900 | Cars.com
I find the price of this car suspicious, but there are a lot of mid to late 2010s Malibus with moderate miles for $3k to $5k so it isn’t completely implausible.
I recently rented a new-ish Malibu and I am convinced they are among the best transportation values available today. Yeah, they more than kind of suck, but that just means they are cheap. It is hard to find an adequate-er car for the price.
You absolutely cannot convince me a ’90s economy sedan is a better deal than a similarly priced modern car that is 20+ years newer, even if said modern car is horrifically boring and has no redeeming factors aside from price.
And let’s all be serious – people are definitely looking at this Saturn through massively rose-tinted glasses. Saturns were decent cars, but plain and boring (and NOT in a good way). No one actually wanted a Saturn SL2 in 1995. It was a car you got because it was the sensible choice. This Saturn was the 2020 Chevrolet Malibu of 1995.
“ This Saturn was the 2020 Chevrolet Malibu of 1995.”
So true. No doubt someone on The Autopian circa 2055 will be singing the praises of a rental spec Malibu.
I also agree that a late model Malibu is near the sweet spot for boring A-B transport. Boring is a virtue when shopping for cheap wheels.
Going to disagree. Saturns were always a bit weird, and a bit weird goes a long way with any amount of enthusiasm. This car is also TEAL. Which is great. And the Saturns plastic panels also mean that here in the Northeast, at least it’ll look good until the car inevitably rusts to death underneath. There’s still a number of decent looking Saturns around here, where basically everything else from the 90s has been retired for being a tetanus hazard.
And that Malibu listing is insanely sketchy. A 2020 with 100k for 3900$? With a price drop of 9600 and another price drop of 5400? From a Wormwood-esque dealer in… Florida? I don’t think that’s something we can really use for comparison here.
I live for a challenge, bring the Mystery. Irony, one of them is a Mystery Machine cosplayer 🙂
That Saturn is still wearing shinny blue paint and has a manual!
I vote for the Saturn
The Saturn was my choice at first glance, and after reading everything it still is. Manual? Crank windows? Good condition? Heck yes, I’ll bring $3k in cash and drive it home.
Not to mention it has some of the best wheels Saturn offered, and the color alone gets you VIP treatment at any nostalgia-based event.