I’m in a hyperbolic mood this morning so bear with me. If I had my druthers, the future of American cars would feature a lot more hybrid minivans. My druthers, like consistent performance from Astros middle relievers, is something I’ve learned to not expect. If there’s any consolation, the giant three-row hybrids are coming.
Honda totally biffed it when it came to electric cars in the US, and is holding on only because it also has a bunch of hybrids. Unfortunately, the pursuit of EVs meant that the company underinvested in this tech. Now, to fix that, a new plant is probably coming and it’s going to be building the one car type Americans can’t get enough of these days.
Hybrids and EVs are growing in popularity in Europe, with Chinese brands rapidly expanding. Tesla, though, feels like it’s being left behind. With higher gas prices you’d assume this means brands like Smart and Mini could flourish, but that doesn’t quite seem to be happening.
Do you like guitars? I think I maybe like guitars. I know for a fact John Mayer loves guitars, and he’s now got a new limited run of guitars with Land Rover. Guitars!
Honda Reportedly Betting $2.5 Billion On Ohio Plant To Build XL Hybrids
As far as cursed captions go, the one that accompanies the above from Honda is a tragic tale of hubris and poor timing: “Honda Progress in Establishment of EV Hub in Ohio will Lead to EV Production in North America.” This photo was posted not long before Honda then announced it was going from building a bunch of EVs in North America to building exactly none of them. Shortly after that sad announcement, Honda then posted its first annual loss ever.
The company invested so heavily in electric cars that it missed the boat on the kind of larger hybrids that people want. Unlike Kia, Hyundai, Mazda, Lexus, sometimes Ford, and Toyota, Honda doesn’t have a hybrid larger than the CR-V. As I wrote last year, there’s basically nothing I can do to convince someone looking for a car to not buy a Grand Highlander Hybrid, although the introduction of the Kia Telluride Hybrid at least gives another alternative.
According to Nikkei Asia, Honda is in talks to spend $2.5 billion building a new facility in Ohio with the capacity to make 250,000 vehicles a year. What might those vehicles be?
While the investment decision remains subject to negotiations over state subsidies, and some uncertainty remains, the mooted new plant in North America would mark Honda’s first on the continent in about 20 years.
The new plant would produce large hybrids, including SUVs more than 5 meters long. Toyota Motor and South Korea’s Hyundai Motor are expanding their large-hybrid lineups, and Honda aims to counter with SUVs that combine strong driving performance with high fuel efficiency.
Yup, a big ol’ hybrid! A Honda Pilot XL, if you will.
While my proclivities lean minivan, this isn’t terrible news for the environment. I know there’s a large contingent that’s upset over carmakers canceling their plans for big three-row EVs, but the market just isn’t there given the range and cost, otherwise everyone would be driving the Hyundai Ioniq 9 and Cadillac Vistiq.
Just look at the fuel economy differences between Honda’s current three-row offering and the Toyota Grand Highlander and older Highlander:
Even if Honda could only match what Toyota is doing with the Hybrid Max, that’s a big increase. If you look at the older, non-hybrid Highlander (before there was a Grand Highlander) it only got 20 MPG combined. While a family stepping up from a non-hybrid Highlander to a Grand Highlander is increasing their physical footprint, their fuel consumption drops dramatically.
High Fuel Prices Are Driving More Europeans To EVs And Hybrids
Europe’s car market has been mediocre over the last few years, though August saw a 5.3% increase in sales that were largely either hybrid (36.6%), electric (21.7%), or plug-in hybrid (10%). Diesel and ICE cars made up less than a third of total sales. In the biggest markets, battery-electric cars were up by 40-70% year-over year.
While Europe was always heading in the direction of more EVs, the recent energy disruptions due to the wars in Iran and Ukraine has definitely kick-started adoption. The latest data from the European car industry shows that these sales aren’t all equally distributed.
Tesla, which is seeing an improvement this year after a few quarters of decline, was up 4%, but that’s a lot lower than Chery, the SAIC brands, BYD, and the Geeely Group brands, all of which outsold Tesla in August. I think the lack of hybrids is probably the biggest factor holding brands like Tesla back in Europe, especially as displeasure over his antics seems to be fading.
For all the focus on EVs from Chinese-owned brands, vehicles like the PHEV Jaecoo 7 are out here setting sales records.
Outsourcing To China Isn’t Working For BMW And Mini
I think Mercedes the person and Mercedes-Benz the car company would both be pleased if the new Smart ended up being a big performer, but there’s been a fundamental flaw in the logic behind German carmakers teaming up with Chinese production to introduce small, cheap electric cars to the market.
As Manager Magazin points out, the thought process behind both the Smart EV and Mini EV hasn’t quite held up to reality:
The demand for small, affordable electric cars is actually high, especially in Europe. Because initial attempts to produce them in Germany , France , and Great Britain proved unprofitable given local wages and electricity prices, Smart and Mini turned to China early on. Nicolas Peter (64) , now chairman of the BMW supervisory board, traveled to the Far East in 2019, before Källenius finalized the Smart project with Geely, for the groundbreaking ceremony of a joint venture with Great Wall Motor. Both Källenius and Peter wanted to use China as a cost-effective export hub for their small electric cars to Europe.
But the idea doesn’t work. The EU’s punitive tariffs, introduced at the end of 2024, completely destroyed any calculations. Importing electric cars produced in China to Europe is subject to duties of sometimes more than 30 percent. Smart and Mini see these high fees as the cause of their financial woes. Internally, they say it destroys any business case.
Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time.
Check Out John Mayer’s Sweet Land Rover Guitars
I have a theory that white people can’t resist electric guitar music, which has been proven scientifically by John Mayer. Everyone, of course, loves Land Rovers. Combine the two and you get this limited run from Mayer and Land Rover of special Defender-inspired guitars.
“Teaming up with Defender to offer the Silver Sky guitar in their legendary 4×4 colors is a dream come true. I’ve always chosen colorways based on objects and materials that inspire me in the world, and as a collector and lover of Defenders, this collaboration is the perfect crossover between two great passions of mine.”
If you’ve got, like, $2-3K you can get one yourself.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
It’s the 2015 Rock & Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony for Stevie Ray Vaughn & Double Trouble featuring no less than Jimmie Vaughan, Doyle Bramhall, Gary Clark Jr., and, hey, it’s John Mayer.
The Big Question
How many large three-row hybrid SUVs do you currently own or plan to own?
Top photo: Toyota
I’d rather have a good 3 row EV van or SUV than a hybrid. But I’d accept a hybrid if it was all that fit.
I currently have an EV SUV, Mini Cooper, and a one ton van. The Nissan NVP doesn’t really take that much more gas than the average non-hybrid minivan and the utility is way beyond any 3 row SUV.
The ideal vehicle is something like the ID.Buzz for getting the kids around town where I spend the most on fuel. I’ll keep using the van for any trips over 250 miles with the kids.
tbq: Zero on both counts.
I’m not opposed to large, three-row SUVs. I cut my teeth on a 1981 Chevrolet Suburban. I loved that thing, even if the mileage was mediocre even for the time (and mine had the little bitty 350!).
Right now, though, I just don’t have any automotive problems that a three-row SUV solves.
If I score the lottery, though, I won’t tell anyone but you’ll know when my squarebody Suburban rolls up silently and the V8 only sings out when I mat the throttle.
Land Rover chose the wrong partner for guitars. How they are not producing DeFender Stratocasters is beyond me.
Well played.
The only large three-row
hybridSUV I own is the Excursion.Now, if Edison Motors would release their incomplete chassis, it could finally also be a hybrid.
We have a 2018 (non-hybrid) minivan and it DRINKS the gas. I’m talking 16-17 MPG on a good day. I’d love a hybrid 3-row crossover or hybrid minivan at this point, but not the outright/upfront cost of one. It would take years of the better gas mileage to make up for the higher payments.
Holy shit, that’s what my 5.0L V8 F-150 gets. That super sucks.
It does. I often say we could’ve just gotten a BOF SUV and then at least we’d have towing capacity and 4WD.
And I’ve had all the maintenance the van needs (and more) done. It runs like a top. Just its big ol’ V6 + hefty weight + around town driving = piss poor fuel economy.
Yeah. My 2011 Ody van averages 17-18 in the city.
My issue is the lack of a PHEV options for vans is crazy since most of them spend their time hauling in a town. The savings from a PHEV option would be very good, but there is only one out there and it’s reliability is spotty. My friends have the PHEV Pacifica, and it’s been in the shop for issues at least once a year for all 4 years of ownership so far.
Yep. I wouldn’t touch a PHEV Pacifica. They can’t even advertise them on social media without the comments being flooded with frustrated owners.
TBQ: – ♾️ (or negative infinity)
The blob hybrid XL SUV has spread worldwide. I started reading CarNewsChina recently to see what’s happening in their car industry, though after a while my eyes glaze over at the repetitive designs on display. Sure, there are plenty more EVs in China, but the form factor is largely along the lines of a future Pilot Hybrid. It makes following car news depressing, to be honest.
I don’t own a hybrid or a SUV. However, I can see the appeal.
My current plans are to get a little of each.
Vehicle 1. Replace current minivan with a HEV minivan. Needs HEV and Minivan for application
Vehicle 2. Replace current sedan with whatever a good value on the used market. EVs are the current best values on used for me and most are SUVs. I don’t see that changing as most new EVs are SUVs. I would be shopping for a two row not a 3 row.
High Fuel Prices Are Driving More Europeans To EVs And Hybrids
Listen up, VW: I’d dump my GTI that needs 93 IMMEDIATELY if you sold that ID3 GTI here. Do it right now.
Add me to that list, I would get one as well.
TBQ: Zero
I currently own a 2-row crossover and have never used the 2nd row. What would I want 3 rows for?
I’m a weirdo. I don’t own any large 3 row hybrid SUVs, and it seems unlikely that I ever will.
TBQ: “large” “3-row” and “hybrid” are 3 general descriptors of vehicles that I have never owned, and never plan to own.
The huge hybrid blob crossovers taking over the automotive landscape is depressing, though not unexpected… I never liked minivans but might have actually preffered that. We had a 2015 ford edge for about 5 years after my daughter was born and both my wife and I enjoyed it. Thats the only crossover I’ve owned, and would like to keep it that way but could be persuaded by a Rivian, maybe. I prefer (non full-size) pickups, hatches and sedans. I really wanted the mini ev to work out; if they executed it well it seemed like it could be fantastic to drive but also practical, the new smart looks cool too.
TBQ: 0,0
I guess there’s a good side to being so unattractive, autistic, and socially inept it’s hard to have new friends, much less a lasting relationship.
Currently none. Most likely none. We rented a santa fe non hybrid this summer for 10 days on vacation. Space and 3 rows were nice traveling with my parents to the beach and back. Buuuutttt, girlfriend thought it was a bit too big for daily.
I am a big fan of renting a car thats on the potential buy list though. Helps to check stuff out without sales creatures around and for more than 20 minutes
Rental miles are like dog years. Multiply by about 7 to get your real world wear and tear….
I own two 3 row SUV’s neither are hybrid, nor do I plan on replacing either with one.
Coming soon the all new Canyonero Proselytizer Pro+4 Hybrid: Seats you, your extended family, and tows your jet skis with ease, with an (E)PA rating of 35 mpg you too can travel 950 miles before having to wimp out and pee. Tell your friends, tell your neighbors, and write to your congressman about converting to Canyonero Proselytizer Pro+4 Hybrid
Can I get it in Limited Unlimited Platinum Sport GT Extreme trim with Gandalf Grey pearl metallic paint and more screens than a Best Buy display?
Speakers in every headrest with vibrators in every seat bottom, your not just going to hear the music, your going to feel like your backstage with the band when you opt for the Premium Soundstage III option package
The only SUV I have ever owned was a two door, so probably none. I can’t think of a single reason to ever own a 3 row anything personally.
I hope the majority of americans love those pieces of giantness. Meanwhile, I will be buying older vehicles and motorcycles. Man, I remember the days of actually being excited to read about new vehicles. Now, all we can celebrate is the Miata?
TBQ: The only one I would consider is some sort of electric Tahoe. I like the Escalade IQ but don’t really want an Escalade.
The rest are nice but I can’t see getting something that big with that many consumables just to be slower than the inevitable electric version
TBQ: Zero.
We, uh, don’t own any SUVs, hybrid or otherwise.
Sorry…
Own zero, might get one when the minivan gives up, depending on what the wife is feeling like for a daily at the time and what the market is selling.
If I could get a truck based one with a low range, I’d buy one. Until then I will keep my 03 limping along.
I still debate the “invest heavily in EV” claim for Honda with their write-off. Their only EV in America has been based on, and build with, GM’s Ultium. That fell through. Their writeoff looked strategically timed with a poor year.
I genuinely think Honda has under-invested in EVs and Hybrids. But they’re also a fraction of the size of Toyota: the easy-button the XL-SUV to make some cash to pay for under-funding development.
I worry about Honda. If they’re not “fun” like they used to be, and not the plucky-small-reliable-eco-vehicle, what are they now?
The Fit EV and Clarity EV were California only – so it’s easy to exclude them.
There was a lot more loss than just the write off for the ZDX and Prologue with GM. Honda Sony was showing prototypes very near production. I imagine there was a lot of time and effort put into that.
It’s easy to exclude the FitEV & ClarityEV because they’ve not been sold for nearly a decade. There’s nothing on those to writeoff.
They’re also losing the “reliability edge” they once had since the 1.5s are becoming nightmares.
I don’t think Honda knows what they are doing anymore. No V6 hybrid, no HR-V hybrid, no EV’s, Prelude is 10k overpriced, Odyssey is overdue for an update, and parts pricing that has gotten out of hand the past couple years making a lot of repairs unaffordable using OEM parts.
“what are they now?”
Senescent.
Not a bad model name, come to think of it.
My GF finally got something new, her Fiat 500X at 150k was getting rough. After some debate, she ended up leasing a new Kia Niro hybrid and after about a month loves that damn thing.