Building cars is hard (BCIH)™. Building an electric truck is, as we’re going to find out today, even harder. Chevy made a big deal out of announcing a $40,000 version of the 2024 Silverado EV when it debuted, but just walked back that number to media at a launch this week. The actual cost will be significantly higher.
Speaking of BCIH, Lordstown Motors predictably files for bankruptcy and less-predictably sues Foxconn, plus a board member actually gets sentenced for Dieselgate. If you stick around through all of that I’ll have Škoda for you… a Škoda camper.
Base Silverado EV Will Reportedly Cost At Least 25% More Than Originally Offered
It’s somewhat of a tradition in the electric car universe to either:
A. Sell a low-priced version of an EV for about ten minutes before discontinuing it. Or…
B. Offer to sell one, but raise the price before one even arrives on sale.
It sounds like Chevrolet is taking the B Route with its new Silverado EV. Remember when the Silverado EV was originally going to cost $39,900 in base trim? Yeah, me neither.
There was a big launch for the Silverado EV this week and the buzz around automotive media circles was that it felt a little rushed. We wouldn’t know, though, because we weren’t invited! [Editor’s Note: It’s possible that’s my fault. I still have some reviews outstanding (I bit off a bit more than I could chew right as I moved to LA). Automakers typically want those done pronto! -DT]. Either way, amidst reviews of the truck came news that the $40,000 price wasn’t going to be realized.
Here’s how GM explains it to Automotive News in the business outlet’s report titled “Chevy Silverado EV fleet sales start soon; price of base model raised.”:
“A lot has changed in the last year and a half with the economic pressures, with the industry pressures, with all the supply chain” constraints, Amy Masica, director of marketing for Chevy trucks, told Automotive News at a media drive event for the Silverado EV work truck aimed at fleet buyers.
[…]
Sure. Also worth noting that Chevy, at the time of its announcement, was competing with a Ford F-150 Lightning that theoretically cost $41,000 in base trim. Ford took Route A and did, it seems, maybe build some of those $41,000 trucks, but the base price of the Lightning has jumped multiple times and is now more than $60,000. I haven’t seen a specific price, but Car And Driver seems to think it’ll be around $52,000 for the base Silverado WT work truck.
Currently, the only vehicle being produced is the 4WT work trim, at a whopping $79,800 (delivered), but that does offer a big 450-mile range. The non-fleet RST First Edition has a 400-mile range and will cost $106,895.
Depending on what that WT-trim offers, $52,000 could be a good deal. Given the huge number of reservations GM claims to have, focusing on a $40,000 truck doesn’t make much sense, especially since, according to The Detroit News, they just had to shut down their Ultium battery plant:
The disruption at the Ohio Ultium Cells plant — the only Ultium plant out of three planned facilities in operation — is happening while GM is launching the Chevrolet Silverado EV Work Truck at its Factory Zero Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly Center and soon will be launching electric versions of the Equinox and Blazer.
“Anything that potentially interrupts cell production right now is critical for General Motors, because they’ve a hard time ramping up production of all of their Ultium EVs,” said Sam Abuelsamid, principal e-mobility analyst for market research firm Guidehouse Inc.
Lordstown Files For Bankruptcy + Bonus Lawsuit
Startup EV truckmaker Lordstown Motors never made any sense to me. Other than getting the former GM Lordstown Assembly in Ohio (home of the Cruze!) for cheap, the company didn’t actually seem to be selling many trucks (it moved a whopping three of them in Q4 of 2022) and the ones they did offer were not competitive.
Unsurprisingly, Lordstown Motors has filed for bankruptcy. As a twist, Foxconn (famous for producing iPhones on Apple’s behalf) was immediately sued by Lordstown. Why? It’s complicated, but Reuters has a good breakdown:
In a complaint filed in bankruptcy court, Lordstown accused the electronics company of fraudulent conduct and a series of broken promises in failing to abide by an agreement to invest up to $170 million in the electric-vehicle manufacturer.
Foxconn previously invested about $52.7 million in Lordstown as part of the agreement, and currently holds an almost 8.4% stake in the EV maker. Lordstown contends Foxconn is balking at purchasing additional shares of its stock as promised and misled the EV maker about collaborating on vehicle development plans.
Foxconn, formally called Hon Hai Precision Industry (2317.TW) and best known for assembling Apple’s (AAPL.O) iPhones, has said Lordstown breached the investment agreement when the automaker’s stock fell below $1 per share.
Ex Audi CEO Pleads Guilty, Gets Suspended Sentence
A Munich court handed out a sentence today to the highest ranking person convicted thus far in the Dieselgate Scandal, giving ex-Audi CEO and Volkswagen Board Member Rupert Stadler (one of the two pictured here) a three-year suspended sentence and a $1.2 million fine.In 2019, prosecutors said Stadler knew about the manipulation of diesel engines but failed to prevent the sale of hundreds of thousands of cars with rigged software.
The charges related to nearly 435,000 Audi, Porsche and Volkswagen cars destined for US and European markets.
In separate statements, Volkswagen and Audi said they were not party to Tuesday’s proceedings, which should be “viewed independently” of proceedings against the companies that concluded in 2018.
A suspended sentence for Stadler means he doesn’t have to serve jail time, but for three years could get thrown in the clink if he commits any further crimes. Former Volkswagen CEO Martin Winterkorn has yet to stand trial and is currently avoiding going to the United States, which makes him a fancy fugitive.
After Dieselgate, Volkswagen made a big commitment to build electric cars across all its brand, which leads neatly to the next story.
And Now… A Skoda Camper
Every year Skoda gives students at its vocational school a chance to dream up and, eventually, build a project car. This year’s project couldn’t possibly appeal be more appealing to me. It’s a Toppola-style mobile office/camper built on the Czech automaker’s Kodiaq platform the students call the Škoda Roadiaq. Get it?
Here’s what the company says about the car:
Škoda’s ninth student car contains everything a modern mobile office needs: a permanent high speed internet connection, a 27‑inch monitor and a docking station, innovative storage solutions, lots of electric plug sockets, and (importantly) an espresso machine. Yet, in just a few easy steps the Roadiaq transforms from a workspace into a living area complete with a bed and a small kitchen.
Maren Gräf, Škoda Auto Board Member for People & Culture, said: “As a mobile-office camper, the Roadiaq allows you to work wherever you want. It’s a reflection of the new, flexible work approach we at Škoda are fully committed to. Over the course of the project, it was particularly impressive to see the enthusiasm and dedication to detail the students at the Academy demonstrated. This concept car shows in an impressive manner what people can achieve together if they dedicate themselves to a project with passion.”
It’s a one-off, but it’s a dope one-off.
The Flush
How much would an EV truck need to be for you to buy it, and what kind of range would you expect for the price?
Photos: Audi, GM, Skoda, Lordstown Motors
I want a midsized EV truck with a 6 foot bed for $35k
I think a small(lighter) EV truck, with around 200 miles of range, starting around $30k, or even $37,500 with eligible tax incentive, is not unreasonable. But for that I’d wanted painted bumpers and full infotainment options, self driving stuff I can take or leave. So like a Colorado/Ranger, or even a Maverick sized as long as it had decent payload. Fun fact, bed payload doesn’t impact range nearly as much as towing.
EV trucks should be for around town landscaper/contractor, not boat/car trailer hauling cross country guys. I don’t understand insane amount of batteries when the buyer could look at a diesel pickup with decent mpg and basically unlimited range, which is cheaper, and go with that.
Not every peg fits in the square hole, and cramming $30k worth of batteries in a $30k truck isn’t good for the environment, isn’t good for the buyer having to wait at charging stations for an hour to charge all that battery up, and isn’t good for the quality level of the truck, $60k should start to be GMC Sierra Denali territory, not base work truck with plastic bumper shenannigans.
Until they come up with a way to catch a rail or wirelessly charge on Freeway surfaces, an EV truck will need to have 350miles of range unloaded so it can go 100 miles actually loaded for trucky things and the price should be mid 40’s
It would need to be a Tolley-Truck, I hate batteries.
*Trolley
-_-
So the only reason I see to buy an electric truck is to save on gas. Autotrader shows nice crew cab 4×4 rangers for under $40k, and f150s for under $50k. Assume 20 mpg, and that’s 10000 gallons of gas over 200k miles-$30-60k depending on where you live. An f150 lightning at semi reasonable charging rates seems to cost about $13-15k for the same distance, but public chargers can be 3-4x as expensive.
For me, while I DD my truck, I also work from home and use my wife’s car when we go to the city, so the majority of my miles are far from home-whether towing, hauling motorcycles, or just driving somewhere when the family needs the space. At least 25% of my charging would have to be on public chargers, so figure at least $25k in charging, and gas is relatively cheap here. I’m looking at maybe $10-15k savings here, maybe less. Seeing as how most of my truck uses take me far from civilization and public chargers, it’d be highly inconvenient, so cost savings would have to be substantial to persuade me. At the top end, I’d maybe pay the same price as a ranger. Even then, it might be easier to adapt my uses to the limitations of a maverick, so…it’s a tough sell. It’d be easier to replace my wife’s Subaru with electric though
So that CEO undoubtedly made millions in bonuses by faking emissions, but gets out on probation? It seems at minimum should be a forfeiture of all compensation for those years, and a few years in the clink for fraud. If not, then why the hell would the next guy not do the same thing? It literally made his predecessor rich
THE FLUSH..
Nearly free…. Maybe out of a junkyard….then swap in a LS motor and auto trans and go park at some charging stations….
Parking at charging stations you aren’t using is a dick move. The move here is to go to a gas station with something that looks obviously like an EV to get people trying to record the dumbass who doesn’t know they have an EV. Bonus points if you make a double fuel door where the inner one looks like a charging port.
“So Foxconn now owns an empty EV factory in America”….BYD rubbing hands together while a greedy smile curls across lips…”Yes, this will do nicely, very nicely indeed! Prepare to be invaded by Seagulls my capitalist friends! Muhahaha!!”
Don’t call me a BCIH!
The question to consider is not what one would pay for an EV truck, but what is the lowest price we think a full size (Lightning, Silverado, Ram) will be in the future.
They are $80-120k with 350-500 mile range, does anyone believe that todays $100k 400 mile EV truck will go down to 90k, 80k, 70k, 60k, 50k in the future? Highly doubt there will be a 400 mile EV full truck under $70k ever.
So many games like many said, but the real game is they are making some high priced EVs, to only cry poor in the future and wait for the govt to throw more $ in many ways and upping the credit to 10k, 15k, 20k, etc.
Forget it Jake, it’s an EV Company….
I’ve seen some real world struggles with the Lightning in a work environment, and an all-electric truck doesn’t offer the flexibility many jobs require. Disaster response? No infrastructure to recharge. Plug all your construction gear into your truck? You’ve killed the charge and can’t drive home. EV trucks look great in commercials, but I’m not sure they’re a mass solution. PHEV is probably where the commercial sector needs to go, but BEV gets all the attention & gov’t breaks.
And I’ve never wanted a Škoda before, but a camper wagon with a built-in espresso machine?! I’m in.
It’ll be interesting to see if the RAM 1500 EV with a range-extender shakes up the electric market and becomes the new standard or if it gets dropped after two years because no one is ordering it. Given our infrastructure, PHEVs with 100 miles of range and a good range-extender make more sense to me than trying to make a million chargers to replace gas stations.
It will be interesting what the price is when it actually comes to market, I’m thinking min of $125k for the RAM giant battery EV with range extender.
Have you seen power tools actually drain the battery on a Lightning? I’m curious what kind of workload the truck could handle (welder? concrete finisher?) or if it’s more realistic to stick to recharging batteries and maybe a table saw.
I guess I’m at a place where full size EV trucks just seem stupid to me. $80k for a bare bones interior, is the size of a house, and weights an outrageous amount. 450 mile range, the charging speed, and towing figures are impressive – but it takes a two f***ing hundred + kwh battery to do it.
Wouldn’t we be better off using that battery to make 4 smaller EV’s with 250 miles of range, or better yet – 10-15 PHEV’s that get 35-45 miles of range?
A few years back when EVs were just gaining momentum, I recall some fascination with bigger and bigger ranges – I guess I didn’t think about it much, but I expected it to be more than just shoving preposterously enormous and heavy batteries into vehicles to get there.
Oft-promised paradigm shifts in battery density are perpetually “a few years away”.
I predict we won’t reach anything close to EV saturation unless/until they actually arrive.
The new solids state high density batteries will arrive around the same time as the flying car.
That battery meaning that financial cost, environmental cost, and opportunity cost.
Literally the only reason anybody would conceivably want an electric Silverado instead of a gas one is to save the environment. This is definitely not saving the environment as much as a lot of other options could. It is becoming increasingly clear that Chevy, (and this isn’t really different for any other manufacturer), doesn’t give a rats ass about the environment. So why are they doing this? PR. Guys! If you’re into electric cars, if you want an electric car in order to save the environment, YOU ARE FALLING PREY TO ONE OF THE STUPIDER PR SCHEMES!
State governments requiring these to be exclusively sold by 2030-2035 must also be falling for the PR campaigns.
Regulators are using their tools to nudge. It’s necessary, but not sufficient.
A $7500 tax credit is a “nudge”.
A ban on ICEs with a politically motivated timeline is not.
“Sufficient for what?”, is a question I’m almost afraid to ask when you are shrugging off bans as no big deal….
Well the state governments will walk that back if the tech and infrastructure doesn’t materialize. They used to do this more often when you think about emissions and fleet mpg standards back in the 90s when it happened more often that the targets just weren’t so feasible. The president and congress would have to alter the regs to allow manufacturers to keep on employing all those voting workers but now it’s much less common.
If it really becomes untenable for ICE cars to be banned we’ll start hearing the cries and the politicians will blame their predecessors and push back the bans.
Which is why everyone should really just calm down about the whole mess and take it all for what it really is: bloviating.
I certainly don’t agree with your optimism on this.
Very little about politics in the 2020s makes me think “backing down even from unpopular stances” is in the playbook.
Optimism might not be the right word there. More just experience maybe.
If we were talking about federal regs I might agree with you but states tend to be able to move a bit more freely due in part to less attention being paid to their efforts in our 24 hour news cycles. But then the fed would just do an end–around on the actual and proper procedures of lawmaking and whatever president in office would just sign an executive order that the next guy can undue with a pen and a press conference. Oh well.
For the big stuff we do tend to at least do the bare minimum to keep the lights on. Whenever I see any official or office making some grand statement or gesture that comes to fruition long after they’ll be gone I just have to roll my eyes. It only happens if everything is aligned.
How many presidents have promised we’re going to Mars and whatnot?
These aren’t just vague statements about going to Mars though, they are in some cases real laws passed by state legislatures. To repeal them would require another law, and thus the blue team admitting to its voters that it can’t keep its pie in the sky promises. Much easier to simply let it come into effect and not worry about the deplorables that are affected.
2035 is far enough away for everyone to change their minds before then if the tech doesn’t materialize. Especially since we’ll probably have a whole new crop of politicians that will be more than happy to alter those plans at the request of automotive lobbyists ($$$) and blame it all on the previous generation of politicians.
Again, can you think of a recent occurrence where a political party backed down publicly on a pet issue? It doesn’t happen anymore.
Unless you think control of California, New York, Washington, etc is going to pass to Republicans before 2035 (I certainly don’t), repealing or delaying these bans is going to piss off Democratic primary voters, with little to no upside politically. There’s no way they will risk that.
Defund the police talk has pretty much disappeared from just a few years ago. Now everyone is looking to increase police funding.
I guess that’s the closest example, but I don’t think the mainstream of the party ever really believed in it (it’s not as if a lot of laws were ever passed defunding any police) like they believe in fighting climate change with EVs.
The intent behind that was not bad, but “defund the police” was a terrible slogan. That idea was DOA on the basis of the slogan alone.
It will be interesting to see how much the democratic party fractures between Blue Collar Union groups that are getting the shaft on this BEV thing vs the Rich, Entitled Pseudo-intellectuals regurgitating party headlines and “facts”.
In my experience, the blue collar guys have already left.
The question will be what happens when the middle-class, educated, mostly liberal, suburban dad can’t buy a truck capable of towing his boat to the lake or his camper to the state park anymore.
Yup. Totally naive those Government Officials. Absolutely not pandering to popular causes, and absolutely totally not NOT profiting personally by taking
moneytotally legitimate campaign contributions or donations to their charitable foundations in return for uh, nuthin’ absolutely nuthin.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42579732
“Literally the only reason anybody would conceivably want an electric Silverado instead of a gas one is to save the environment.”
Or their electricity is cheap and they want to save on gas?
“This is definitely not saving the environment as much as a lot of other options could.”
Which options?
Correction, at $80k or whatever, the only reason you would want an electric Silverado is to save the environment. Electricity is cheap but the premium for an electric car is absurd. This literally costs $40k more than a comparable gas model. Which won’t save you money unless you literally drive it 200k miles or so, and never pay for a charging station.
The better options, mentioned in the comment I responded to, are replacing one 450 mile pickup with several 250 mile cars, or a butt ton of 50 mile plug in hybrids.
Ah, okay. I actually agree with all of this! So weird, because normally in internet comment sections, this would have turned into an absurd, shitty argument. What kind of internet are they running around here?!
We can only hope that our beloved Autopia comment section remains this reasonable.
Understood on the work one, but the higher trims are interesting due to the midgate and range. That, and you mostly charge them at home anyway to there’s the convenience factor as well. But in a work truck? Yeah, doesn’t make sense at this price point.
well, actually since the environmentalist have made the Silverado’s V8 a ticking time bomb of AFM/DFM badness. I assume a GM loyalist would actually switch in hopes that the ultium batteries last a bit longer.
WRT to range, there is a gulf between what people need and what people want. Outliers needing range are drowning out the vast majority of folks that can easily get by with ~200 miles. Then there is the general fashion of having a brodozer as a DD…its…not a combo that will help the environmental mess we are in.
I agree, it would make more sense to utilize the resources needed to build these trucks elsewhere. “Work trucks” aside, I think the time will come when people just need to realize that the days of using a full-size truck as the family sedan or commuter are over.
I get it – I actually LIKE full-size trucks, but I also get that the size and weight of these things is getting out of control. I just saw on a TFL review that the base model is going to be 8,500LBS. Not too long ago, a diesel 1-ton wouldn’t even be anywhere near that.
I wouldn’t buy an electric truck, period. Electric cars make sense for a lot of people but I actually use my truck for, you know, truck things.
well I could solve all my truck things with a Lightning easily, it fits my lifestyle well. But I don’t tow, which to me is the only use case that justifies a full size ICE pickup.
Lots of people think that, which is wrong, because full size pickups aren’t really engineered that well for towing. What they are good for is carrying large things in the bed.
I sure think that carrying around engines and transmissions and fenders and hoods and 1400lb of fencing and rocks and concrete and bricks is a use case that justifies my full size pickup. I have literally never towed a trailer with it.
fair enough, but from a little googling the payload rating for a 4×4 ICE and EV F150 are about the same. And I have rocks and bricks delivered on a flatbed or dump truck. And I’ve carried 1,000lb of fence posts in my van. 🙂
edit: now that I’m in a payload rabbit hole, looks like a Colorado, Ranger, and even a Ridgeline could handle most of your examples. I’ll concede that regularly driving around with 1500lbs of rocks is a great excuse to buy, and destroy, a full size truck.
I think there are a lot of truck things you can do with an EV truck. But towing anything other than very short distances is just not one of them. Which is why I wish there were more HEVs and PHEVs.
GM should be required to honor the orders already placed at the original prices.
Lordstown Motors was always a scam.
The amount I’m willing to spend depends a lot on what I’m getting. $40k feels okay if the value is there. I don’t really think I’d go above $50k, but I would also prefer something in a well-equipped midsize or compact pickup with 350ish miles range. I don’t need more range than that, and I don’t need the best payload or towing, just enough for what I do.
Alternatively, I would love to go for one with 100 or so miles of range and a small range-extender engine. Not lugging around extra battery would be nice.
It’s time for the comment section to band together and buy Lordstown factory. It should be like what 17 bucks. Then we convince our respective members of congress to give us 9.2 in 0% loan that they would prefer we pay back. Then we will make the 30k 400 electric mile truck concept. We collect VC funding. Then flee with our billions to whatever country won’t give us back to the US.
I have five – no, eight!! – eight American dollars to commit to this fraud! I mean cause! Commit to this cause!
If you tell people we’re “moving fast and break things” it’s totally cool.
This sounds like something John Oliver would do, but I’m in!
I am ready to DISRUPT and SHIFT PARADIGMS and ENRICH MYSELF ON THE GULLIBILITY OF MY FELLOW CITIZENS!
That’s great. Because GM just called and gave us 8.2 billion as long as we call Shane Fein and the rest of UAW and promise this definitely isn’t a scam and we’ll definitely hire UAW labor.
30k-ish. That’s the most I’m willing to plunk down on a car these days, and frankly, even if I had enough money to spend more than that (I currently do not) I don’t think I would.
Agreed. Over 30k is the point where I start to feel pretty uncomfortable even if I “can” afford it.
I love cars, probably too much. But I’m not super interested in having a car loan so expensive that it actively makes everything else about my life worse. Unless money is genuinely no object to someone, there’s going to be a severe opportunity cost to spending something like 60k on an EV truck.
In other news: water is wet.
Ford F-150 Lightning customers are also cancelling orders en masse due to the price jumping over 50% in a single year, leaving dealers holding the bag on a “$40,000” truck that now costs a minimum $60,000 with most orders at over $78,000.
Excellent story on this by Kevin Williams over here.
It’s really, really not complicated. Or surprising. This was a foregone conclusion from day one, because Lordstown was never anything but a scam. A grift. A fraud. And Foxconn is suing because on Lordstown’s double-secret books, they’re “Sucker #3.” Especially since Foxconn spent $230M for the plant already, based on a Potemkin village presentation and was promised they’d get to build a truck that doesn’t exist. Then they sunk in another $50M after that (and planned to use the plant to build the also nonexistent Fisker PEAR.) And then just 7 months ago they promised another $170M on the basis of Lordstown promising really honestly that’s totally all they need to really ramp up production honest.
Foxconn, got conned. And they don’t like it.
By the way, a large chunk of the money has gone to pay out golden parachutes for a variety of departed executives. Including Steve Burns, formerly of Workhorse (another EV grift.)
“Laws for thee, not for me” isn’t just a US thing. It’s just more blatant in the US. Remember kids! If you’re rich enough, you can’t commit murder only an accounting error!
And every year, I mourn that we don’t have any Skoda in the US. Skoda makes a lot of genuinely neat, genuinely good, genuinely handsome stuff. Post Velvet Revolution, the Czech government told Renault to pound sand with their ‘build our old junk’ offer and okay’d VW investing over $6B in making the Favorit not suck.
And Skoda took that money and independence, and ran. Imagine a VW that doesn’t break all the time, that doesn’t leak every fluid in it and somehow leak fluids not in it, that doesn’t have an entire gaggle of permanent electrical gremlins, and is somehow built to a very high level of consistency.
That’s modern Skoda.
I’m not even going to answer, because I know the reality of things. Doesn’t matter what price I say, or what price was agreed upon in writing. That’s not the price the dealer’s going to demand, and it’s not the price the manufacturer’s going to sell it at. They’ll “launch” at $39,995 but refuse to build any of those so they can sell more of the higher margin models. Then tell you you can get on next year’s waiting list at $59,995. Or the year after at $69,995. And so on.
rootwyrm said: “I’m not even going to answer, because I know the reality of things. Doesn’t matter what price I say, or what price was agreed upon in writing. That’s not the price the dealer’s going to demand, and it’s not the price the manufacturer’s going to sell it at. They’ll “launch” at $39,995 but refuse to build any of those so they can sell more of the higher margin models.“
So, pretty much the same thing Ford did with the Maverick if we’re completely honest here. There’s been much more in the way of cheerleader articles about their, low, low price in an unobtainium configuration. We all knew, deep down, that this was how it would play out when we saw that “starting at” price. And yes, I’m salty about it because I wouldn’t have minded one at that price regardless of the truth.
I don’t think Ford (and others, but let’s highlight Ford) understand quite how badly they’ve fucked with their customer base by the Maverick bait and switch.
The number of people I know that were absolutely giddy at the prospect of a 25k hybrid truck (I’m ignoring the stupid pre-destination costs 20k MSRP) was massive. Enthusiasts and non-enthusiasts agreed, a crossover turned pickup that gets 40mpg was exactly what the average American craved.
But once it became an insane hassle to get one, most of the people I knew gave up and moved on. When it comes up in conversation it usually heads towards “fuck Ford and fuck (insert Ford dealer here)”.
Older than even that; it’s the classic “Lease Deal”/”Fantastic Deal” scam.
Dealers used to advertise in the papers (dating myself here) insane lease deals on cars. Like $99 a month for a Buick Regal or $7500 off sticker. But when you actually showed up? “Oh, we don’t have any of those cars, so sorry. But now that we’re literally holding you hostage, how about this car at $399 a month? Sign here or we won’t give your keys back.”
So then we passed laws that said they had to actually say which cars qualified for these ridiculous deals. And they added it in the very fine print. Then ensured that they got exactly zero cars that met those qualifications, but while you’re there, buy this or they’ll put a hole in your oil pan.
So finally we passed laws here saying they couldn’t advertise anything if they didn’t have at least one car on the lot that qualified, and they had to list that car. So, they did exactly that: they ordered exactly a single car that qualified. And listed it in print so fine that you literally needed a magnifying glass.
All these mythical $30,000 EVs? They’re all the way back at part one. Except there’s nobody even slightly interested in enforcing existing false advertising laws. And they’ll kill the career of anyone who even thinks about part three there.
I very badly wish we had Skoda here.
And yes, the EV launch pricing is a scam right out of Tesla’s “over promise and underdeliver” playbook. Whenever I see a future MSRP of a car, I automatically apply a minimum of a 25% increase to it knowing that the base model is probably a lie, destination charges are somehow creeping up to 2k, and that the dealer is going to try to bend me right over for anything appealing.
You got one part backwards, Lordstown is suing Foxconn. So The foxes can be as mad as they want, but Lordstown is suing them for failing to follow through on contract terms.
Nope!
Lordstown, desperate to keep the grift going because the only executives left are just listed as “bag holder” in the secret books, declared bankruptcy and sued Foxconn at the same time. Claiming that Foxconn (you know, the people they promised a lot of money to,) used fraud and breach of contract to deliberately bankrupt them, and everything was done in bad faith.
Foxconn refused to pony up the $170M in cash on the basis that Lordstown’s share price was below the contractual minimum ($1.) Foxconn is counter-suing for breach of contract and wire fraud.
Oh so they are both suing each other. That’s fun. What a waste of taxpayers money to host that trial.
If I was the judge, I’d be prepping all the summary judgments in favor of Foxconn this morning and some not even slightly subtle hints that perhaps they’d like to add Steve Burns and his clique to the parties.
and i’m sure the $30k Equinox EV is just a pipe dream also
I saw through that the moment it was announced. There is no way that GM ever intended to sell the Equinox EV for 30k, and I’m sure by the time it becomes available it will be 35k if not 40k base, and the base will likely be unobtanium for quite some time.
Absolutely. Surprised they still show estimated MSRP on the page for it and the Blazer. Figured they’d scrub that by now and hope people sort of forget.
Came here to say exactly this. I was skeptical when I heard the price for the Equinox, but now I’m absolutely certain it won’t launch anywhere near what they initially claimed.
I am skeptical as well, but at least Mary Barra has said straight up that a 30K EV is not profitable and GM wants to (or says they want to) figure out a way to make it so.
I expect (and would be willing to purchase) approximately 100 miles of range* in a well-equipped car or truck per $10,000 in base price.
So a 500 mile luxury sedan should cost $50k. It doesn’t need to be an S-Class, but it should be pretty nice.
A 1000 mile truck (to provide 500 miles of towing range) could cost $100k; I wouldn’t be exactly thrilled to pay it, but that’s at least within shouting distance of a top trim truck today, and the operating cost advantages of electric pay off much quicker vs. a 12 mpg F350.
*Calculated at 0 degrees F. Revise upwards for EPA range.
If only this sort of linear range/cost was what had happened. Instead the numbers are all over the place.
I mean obviously there are complicating factors, a 300 hp car and a 300 hp truck don’t always cost the same today for example.
But as a general rule, that’s about what it would take to get me to give up ICEs. It seems like we need about another halving of battery costs and/or doubling of density to make it happen. Right now you can buy a lot of 250 mile cars for $50k and apparently this 450 mile truck for almost $100k.
Everyone is focused on purchase……I think about it this way….a $70,000 diesel will have the same range in 12 years as it does at purchase…..the EV…..likely not. So, you buy a $100,000 truck and at some point have to replace say a $30,000 battery pack (For a 1000 mile range truck)……um……no.
Manufacturers: we are going to make our cool new car affordable, trust us! $40,000 to start!
Everyone: that’s not actually affordable and we don’t believe you
Manufacturers: SUPPLY CHAIN! COVID! Things are SOOOOOO hard for poor us! We still really care about making affordable cars, trust us!
Everyone: how much does it cost
Manufacturers: did we mention we CARE about regular people? We really do. This company would be nothing without our hard working blue collar employees and we carry that working class attitude into every product we make.
Everyone: HOW MUCH DOES IT FUCKING COST?!?
Manufacturers: the ones we’re currently selling range from $80,000 to $100,000
Everyone: screw you
Manufacturers: don’t worry we offer in house 120 month financing at 8-15% APR! We can get you in one of these! You deserve it!
All of this is going to blow up in their faces and I hope the government doesn’t bail them out this time. This is nothing but pure greed and hubris. And just wait until these first gen EVs are worthless in the next 3-4 years when battery technology will have improved and every EV Silverado owner is $25,000 underwater on their six figure trucks. I’m sure that’ll work out really well for the economy.
And for me, an electric truck? I have 0 interest in one. I don’t like trucks in general unless there’s a use case for one and I will never have one personally unless something changes dramatically. But for me my cut off for what I want to spend on a car in general is around $50,000. My wife and I make pretty good money all things considered and could certainly afford to financially prioritize having really nice cars but why would we sink that much of our money into a depreciating asset?
Preach.
I don’t really want or need a truck. If I did, I would probably want an older one that I could beat on mercilessly, and something that could tow stuff.
EV trucks make a lot of sense for fleets, but that’s about it. And I’m overall pro-EV! But I’d rather see all those batteries go into cars that can actually make good use of them.
Agreed. If I genuinely needed to do truck stuff I’d get a low spec truck with an NA engine that I wouldn’t feel bad beating the crap out of. A Taco, Hemi quipped RAM of some sort, etc. Give me the cloth interior, no features other than AC and maybe a decent stereo (that’s more of a personal thing than an “I’d need it for truck stuff” thing).
To me that’s the original truck ethos in a nutshell. It’s supposed to be a tool, not a luxury yacht to haul 5 people in extreme comfort in.
All good as long as that low budget interior doesn’t eternally smell like baked plastic.
The government is forcing them to make these vehicles in the first place when the tech and infrastructure isn’t ready to replace ICE. So while normally I hate it when the government subsidizes private industry, here they will have to to – or back off the mandates for x% of vehicles by certain dates/MPG targets that can’t be hit hit realistically. Let the technology and infrastructure evolve to the point where people actually want and can afford to buy them.
Electrics hold some great advantages, but not so much that with the current tech and infrastructure they make sense for most people. It took us a long time to get to the point we are now with ICE. You can’t force a wholesale changeover in 10 years or any other set timeframe unless we get some sort of huge breakthrough in battery tech soon.
Until then, why can’t we ease into it with PHEVs and mild hybrids, something that can get at least some of the benefits without driving prices to unaffordable levels or requiring massive new infrastructure in a short period of time.
Range-extenders would seem to be a great transition vehicle but we don’t see many of those – is that due to the tech or incentives/laws? I don’t know enough to answer that one.
As for trucks in general – I don’t really need one for anything, so I would never consider it. A large SUV will handle both my people and cargo hauling needs. But there are of course those who do need trucks – I can’t imagine how people can ford them as work vehicles at these prices. But as an old guy I still remember when you bought a truck because *you couldn’t afford a car*.
The government EV push is nothing but a dog and pony show to rile up voters. Liberal voters see the letters EV and get all warm and fuzzy inside. Conservative voters encounter them and see red. It’s just red meat for the manufactured culture war nonsense that’s meant to distract us from the fact that our government won’t hold the biggest polluters accountable because they sign the lobbying checks.
It’s just the classic American approach of shifting blame and responsibility onto regular ass people so corporations, the 1%,, the military industrial complex (the US military is one of the biggest carbon emitters!), politicians, etc. can’t be held accountable. Forcing widespread EV adoption on the population is a band aid on a bullet wound. Or hell…it’s like trying to put a band aid on a decapitated body. It’s a nice gesture I guess but the situation is already FUBAR.
And I say all this as someone who is generally pro EV.
If GM sold this truck for $50k it would sell reasonably well and they would lose lots of money on each one, just like the Bolt. They are done with that game. They want the credit from the government and the stock market for selling these, without actually having to sell any.
45k would probably be my max, but that’s my ceiling for everything right now.
I thought they were jacking up the prices of ICE vehicles to subsidize the EVs, so this shouldn’t even be necessary if you believe their line of reasoning. Greedflation, obviously.
I really hope that automakers have to reap the consequences one day of continually overestimating (read: misleading by doing a poor job at estimating) what they can deliver. I’ve worked in automotive marketing for the last decade and only watched consumer trust drop year after year. Yes, supply chain issues from a global pandemic were a thing. But Chevrolet reinforced this ambitious WT trim price in January of last year. Waiting until the first favorable press impressions of the truck drop to “suddenly” announce that it’s going to cost way-way more to own one? I’m calling BS.
If shady, soul-less, greedy dealerships and their markups of totally pedestrian vehicles didn’t already do enough damage, continuing to take deposits from the working masses on relatively affordable / approachable vehicles like a $39k work truck only to turn around and hit them with a 2x price is bound to alienate any remaining brand loyalty. Mark my words.
Automakers and dealers are making it a lot easier to consider embracing public transit alternatives.
Having ridden in public transit lately, I’m lukewarm to the idea. My personal transportation doesn’t house the homeless and mentally ill. So when I’m in my car I don’t have to sit or stand next to some nutcase ranting about something interlaced with m*&%&^r f*(^*r in every sentence. With the approach cities are using to deal with troublemakers, public transit rider demographics aren’t going to get any less crazy.
Mind you this was in one of the better huge metro areas that is doing an above avg job of running their public transit.
Dealers and manufacturers are going to have to get much worse before public transit become a more appealing option for me.
How cheap would an electric pickup need to be for me to buy it? About $2000.
My last few car purchases:
$650
Free
Free
$1100
Free
When people talk about electric car adoption and “affordable” $35,000 cars, they’re forgetting that there are a whole lot of cheap/poor folks like me, and that most Americans can’t really afford new cars.
I feel you. But given your description (and, ahem, your user name), you’re not really even a consumer. You’re not part of the OEMs’ equations. You’re a recycler.
That’s absolutely true. The OEMs don’t even start to think about me as a customer. My point was that I’m not alone. Especially around these parts. There are millions of Americans like me that are unable or unwilling to spend even $10k on an electric car, forget $80k.
There’s little point in saving the environment with $80k cars when people can’t even afford $40k cars. And these $80k cars are unlikely to become actually affordable $8k used cars, ever. They’ll probably burn down or wear out their batteries or become obsolete and get recycled into 15000lb second gen Hummer EVs first.
So unless they can seriously figure out pricing, a ginormous proportion of Americans(I’m not even gonna talk about other countries) are permanently priced out of electric cars. And, hate to break it to to you, the top 5% of cars switching to electric ain’t gonna save any polar bears.