Home » Dodge Was Right About Four-Door Muscle Cars

Dodge Was Right About Four-Door Muscle Cars

Tmd Charger Ts

If everything goes right, pony cars are about to get really interesting. Ford is reportedly working on something new and Chevrolet is reportedly bringing back the Camaro. However, The next generation of mainstream American performance cars is going to look much different than the recent era of Ford Mustang, Chevrolet Camaro and Dodge Challenger that many of us are fond of, and all signs point to Dodge being right 20 years ago. Even if some of the discourse at the time was offended by the then-new LX-body Charger’s form factor.

That’s right! After being told the sedan was dead and the muscle car was dead, the industry shrugged its shoulders and asked the important question: porque no los dos?

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

Meanwhile, the venerable Chevrolet Express and GMC Savana gain something significant for 2027, Gordon Murray is set to reveal another hypercar, and the Land Rover you probably forgot about it set to end production this year. Welcome back to The Morning Dump, where we slice and dice the car news of the morning into tasting-sized portions. Matt is at Monterey Car Week this week along with most of the crew, which means I’m holding it down on desk duty. Let’s get cracking.

The Mustang Sedan Is Reportedly Real

Ford Mustang GT FX
Photo credit: Thomas Hundal

Last year, Ford filed a trademark application for the model name “Mach 4,” which sent the internet into a frenzy of rumors. Could we finally be getting a Mustang sedan, or perhaps even an all-wheel-drive model? It turns out that the former is far more probable, as Automotive News reports that a full-scale prototype example was recently shown to dealers.

Ford also brought an early prototype of a four-door Mustang onto the stage, giving dealers the clearest view yet of a product first revealed at a 2024 meeting and reported by Automotive News. Multiple people who saw the prototype likened its size and design to a Porsche Panamera.

The people asked not to be identified because the meeting was not open to the public.

Executives promised that the four-door Mustang would have a price tag of less than $40,000, a 0-to-60 mph time of under 4 seconds and more rear-seat space than the Panamera, according to two of the people. Ford did not discuss a name at the meeting but previously has identified it to dealers as the Mach-4.

If the purported Mustang sedan is indeed the size of a Panamera, it’s going to be huge. Porsche’s large sedan measures 198.9 inches stem-to-stern in standard-wheelbase trim and 204.8 inches long in long-wheelbase Executive form. The former figure’s more than 10 inches longer than a Mustang coupe and the latter’s merely 1.8 inches shorter than the new Dodge Charger. That ballpark would make sense given the limited rear seat space in the current Mustang coupe, but it’s still quite the departure for one of America’s most iconic nameplates and it might not be alone.

The 2020 Camaro Ss Sports An Updated New Front Fascia Derived From The Beloved 2019 Sema Concept Car.
Photo credit: Chevrolet

A few days prior, GM Authority dropped a new report on the forthcoming seventh-generation Camaro. If it pans out, GM’s pony car could also adopt additional doors.

One of the most obvious changes for the new Camaro will be the body style, with GM Authority sources indicating the new Camaro will boast four doors, rather than a traditional two-door layout. The four-door model would reportedly feature dimensions comparable to the Chevy Malibu or Chevy SS.

So what’s with the shift? Well, unlike in the ’80s, coupes just don’t work for most people anymore. As soon as you have kids, you have rear seat access and car seat fitment and all that to worry about. Not to mention stroller and diaper bag storage. Once those kids get a little bit older, they’ll go to school and make friends which means a middle seat in the rear—a rarity in modern coupes—becomes an enormous convenience. As your kids grow up, they might get too tall for the tight rear headroom of many modern coupes, and by the time they’re through college, your knees might just say no to daily-driving a low-slung two-door.

For the most part, this relegates modern coupes to second-car status, sometimes even third-car status. And that’s hard to justify. When the median house price in America is $410,700 and the average new car carries a transaction price of around $49,000, the prospect of another new car payment is often just too much for the personal spreadsheet. However, add a pair of rear doors and suddenly, you have a far more justifiable daily driver. One that you can easily do the school run, the airport run, or the lunch run in.

Dodge Charger Rt 2006
Photo credit: Dodge

Dodge figured this out two decades ago with the reborn Charger. Purists were up in arms about it having four doors, but guess what? It sold, and sold well throughout that generation’s entire production run. In 2019, the Dodge Charger outsold the Ford Mustang and more than doubled the sales figures of the Camaro. And that’s with the two-door Challenger alongside it. Understandably, Dodge still offers a four-door version of the new Charger, and while sales of the LB-generation car hasn’t exactly picked up where the old model left off due to a controversial EV-first launch and premium pricing, the four-door option opens that model up to those who simply couldn’t make a coupe work.

A Touch Of Modernity

Chevrolet Express Cargo Van
Photo credit: Chevrolet

It’s an unusually exciting time for the Chevrolet Express and GMC Savana vans. GM’s oldest vehicles are getting their first big standard equipment addition in years. The previously-fitted old-school head unit with no built-in Bluetooth is going in the bin in favor of a modestly-sized touchscreen infotainment system. As first reported by GM Authority:

The updated system, identified by RPO code IOR, will feature a seven-inch HD color touchscreen in the Express, along with Bluetooth phone connectivity and Bluetooth audio streaming. The upgrade will apply across the Express lineup, including Cargo, Passenger, and Cutaway models.

This is essentially the same infotainment system as in a base Chevrolet Trax, although its feature set in the Express and Savana hasn’t been confirmed yet beyond bluetooth audio streaming. It might still have Apple CarPlay and Android Auto stripped out of it, but at least GM van drivers should now be able to wirelessly listen to their favorite podcasts on the go without the need for a phone dongle to split charging and AUX duties. While photos of the new unit in the Chevrolet Express and GMC Savana haven’t been released yet, don’t expect a whole new dashboard. It should still be fairly simple in there, as you’d expect for vehicles with their roots in the ’90s.

A New Gordon Murray Car Is Coming

Gordon Murray Release Teaser
Photo credit: Gordon Murray Special Vehicles

It’s just about the eve of Monterey Car Week, and Gordon Murray Special Vehicles is looking to make a splash. It just released this teaser photo of a new hypercar that seems to sport a roof scoop and NACA ducts and a delightfully flat deck. Is there a whiff of S1 LM to the silhouette? Certainly, but it’s not that few-off limited-run special that broke the internet last Car Week.

So what could we be looking at here? It’s safe to assume it runs a Cosworth V12 and features a carbon fiber tub, although beyond that it’s anyone’s guess. Just figure it’s going to be rare, it’s going to be expensive, and with several members of The Autopian on the ground for Car Week, we’ll be there with photos of it in the sunshine.

Wait, They Still Make That?

Land Rover Discovery Sport 2024
Photo credit: Land Rover

Quick, can you name every model in the current Land Rover lineup? There’s obviously the Range Rover and the Range Rover Sport, along with the Defender. The Range Rover Evoque and Velar are still with us, as is the Land Rover Discovery, but one of the marque’s seven distinct lines is coming to a close in its current form. The entry-level Discovery Sport is set to roll off into the sunset. As Autocar reports:

A JLR spokesperson told Autocar: “Discovery Sport production will end in December 2026, in line with normal product lifecycles. As part of this transition there will be a managed sunset of manufacturing ahead of this date for certain markets.”

The compact, unibody Discovery Sport is a car that I legitimately forgot Land Rover still made. Not because it had been memory-holed for any particular reason, but because it’s both the slowest-selling car in the range and it’s very difficult to tell the difference between a 2025 model and a 2020 model. It’s the Ann Veal of the Land Rover lineup [Ed note: her?], present but not massively memorable. Believe it or not, the model’s discontinuation was actually announced two weeks ago, only to be met with the equivalent of a shrug. Truly, you heard it here third, but someone could tell you again in another two weeks and you’d probably have completely forgotten the news. Either way, it’s the natural end of the Discovery Sport’s model cycle, so it doesn’t make sense to update it to meet GSR2 requirements. If you want an entry-level Landie, there’s always the Evoque.

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

Last weekend was a bit hectic. Several big car shows, places to go, people to see, but I kicked it all off with a bucket-list concert: Broken Social Scene, Metric, and Stars. Hearing “Anthems For A Seventeen Year Old Girl” live is simply sensational, especially on a warm night as the sun sets on the city skyline. Sing it with me now, “Park that car, drop that phone…”

The Big Question:

All these rumored four-door pony cars beg a question: What’s the least-practical car you would actually daily drive?

Top graphic image: Dodge

 

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Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar
20 hours ago

Maybe I’m not the target demo, but simply calling a car a “Camaro” or “Mustang” doesn’t mean I’m going to look past what it actually is.

I happen to like the Mach E, but my brain does not ever pull “Mustang” when I talk about it. I say Mach E. Yeah I know there is a pony badge on it. But a Mustang is a two door with a long hood and a V8.

Revive Chevelle as a sedan if you want to. Galaxie is a great name. Falcon. Heck, bring back the T-Bird sedan.

1978fiatspyderfan
1978fiatspyderfan
20 hours ago

Can’t these parents just get a minivan instead of screwing up iconic cars?

Clueless_jalop
Clueless_jalop
12 hours ago

Look, I’m happy to have driven my mom’s old minivan in high school. Genuinely a great car (aside from being terminally ill with rust). But I would’ve been even more pleased with a hand-me-down sport sedan.

Anoos
Member
Anoos
20 hours ago

When the ‘coupe’ weighs two tons, you may as well add rear doors.

04 Poor
04 Poor
20 hours ago

+1 for calling the 4 door Mustang the Falcon, even if it’s just in Australia where the Mustang already seems to sell decently and a Falcon-badged sports sedan might enjoy strong sales (even if it’s now imported, at least they didn’t slap the badge onto a Mondeo unlike what GM did with the last Commodore). The Mustang was originally based on the Falcon, now it’ll be the other way around.

M. Park Hunter
Member
M. Park Hunter
20 hours ago

You know what I miss? The four-door Thunderbirds of the late ‘60s, complete with suicide rear doors. Those were some classy, muscle-y sedans.

SukhoiRomantic
SukhoiRomantic
20 hours ago

Would a Mustang sedan not just be called Falcon? I think the current Mustang is an incredibly practical car not counting the rear seats, the boot is huge. We had one for a week and it took two big suitcases and some backpacks and carry on no problems just in the boot. Personally the smaller the car the better as I rarely carry more than a few shopping bags or a sports bag in the back and don’t have kids. My Lexus SC430 with the roof blind in place can only carry a couple of bags either side of the spare tyre thingo if I want to use it roof down and that has been fine so far.

Gasoline on the brain
Member
Gasoline on the brain
22 hours ago

I’m down with the 4 door Mustang IF either it has AWD and all seasons or the dealer will store and snow tires and switch twice annually in perpetuity for me. No room at the inn to store a set of snow tires. Some sort of decent winter traction is non-negotiable if I’m going to use it as my daily driver.

4jim
4jim
23 hours ago

We need more shooting brakes.

The most impractical daily I would DD would be a Miata RF

SAABstory
Member
SAABstory
22 hours ago
Reply to  4jim

Miata shooting brake/wagon? Oh, hell yes.

4jim
4jim
4 hours ago
Reply to  SAABstory

Oh yes a Miata shooting brake would be fantastic.

IDriveABigTree
IDriveABigTree
23 hours ago

“A noble spirit embiggens the four-door sedan” – Jebediah Stellantis

Jay Mcleod
Jay Mcleod
1 day ago

We, being bad parents, made our last boy spindle his long lanky frame into either the back of mom’s 95 Honda EX coupe or my 90 B2400 ex-cab.

He survived the indignity.

Earlier we’d done minivans.

Cerberus
Member
Cerberus
1 day ago

TBQ: what I drive, a GR86.

As much as I prefer 2 doors, my biggest issue with sedanified coupes is the apparent size. Might as well bring back the Lagonda—unnecessary electronics are the thing today.

With all the complaining from a particular segment that (the “right”) people aren’t having enough kids, why the rampant concern for kid space in the customer market? I think there are other factors at least as common, but that gets into a long thing I don’t feel like typing again.

Dottie
Member
Dottie
1 day ago

With the Camaro and Mustang going 4 door, welcome back full sized American land yachts. Just in time to save us from the neomalaise mobility blobs.

SAABstory
Member
SAABstory
22 hours ago
Reply to  Dottie

Can’t wait for my Ford Mustang Mach 4 Elite with the landau top!

Ray Finkle
Member
Ray Finkle
1 day ago

Echoing a few other comments, the 4-door Camaro should be a Chevelle… and they should make a wagon version as well.

M SV
M SV
1 day ago

They got away with charger because it was dead for so long. If Chevy didn’t re release the Camero they probably could have gotten away with it. But it’s still a little fresh especially if there isn’t a two door. Mach e was a terrible idea for all involved. The 5 people that wanted a boated cuv thing ev with a mustang nameplate bought it then moved on. Apparently the insurance on them is very high because of the mustang nameplate.

Plenty of old names to use that work for both Ford and GM. GM has Impala, Malibu, Nova, Chevelle, Electria
Ford has Thunderbird, model e, Galaxy, falcon, Fairmont, Torino, Fusion

Practicality is in the eye of the beholder. I’ve known plunty of people daily a 2 seater sports car. Or a 2+2 with a rear seat that wasn’t functional. It was practical for them. The most economic probably not. Some have more room then a smart car and take up 3x or 4x the space and get 1/5 the fuel economy.
But still are more practical then the idiots I see who bought a long bed dually put those dumbass wide stretched tires on with some kind of joke suspension. Where the dually has never seen any trailers from them nor could it in its current state.

I dailyed a 4 door ram 2500 cumins for a bit when I first picked it up and was re establishing my fleet. It wasn’t practical. I want to say I would daily a karmann ghia or a thing but I probably wouldn’t. I have a old leaf that when I bought it the range was maybe 10 miles. I dailyed that close by trying to see if I could get it do any better. That was fairly impractical.

MaximillianMeen
Member
MaximillianMeen
1 day ago
Reply to  M SV

I don’t think any bowtie fanatic would have an issue if they made a 4-door Camero, as long as they don’t besmirch the Camaro name.

Jay Mcleod
Jay Mcleod
1 day ago

Four door Camero brought to you by Temu.

M SV
M SV
23 hours ago
Reply to  Jay Mcleod

SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile Co., Ltd. (Temu GM)

M SV
M SV
23 hours ago

I think the grave is still a little fresh. They might be trying to speed run what the charger has become. But in this case they should have just said we are doing a two door and 4 door no mention of the 2 door. It hasn’t exactly worked out for ford nor this last interation of 2 door 4 door for stellantis. Call the 4 door a Malibu or Impala, or simply SS. Leave two door the Cameros. They could even be basically the same car. Just a two door and a 4 door with different names .

Last edited 23 hours ago by M SV
MaximillianMeen
Member
MaximillianMeen
6 hours ago
Reply to  M SV

I think you missed my point.GM has never made a Camero. They have made many Camaros. So, the Camero name is fair game for a 4-door. Would be hilarious if they did it. Might as well make it an EV to justify the “e.”

Zeppelopod
Zeppelopod
5 hours ago

Perhaps a touch of 1970s class and call it the ~Camareaux~ ?

AllCattleNoHat
AllCattleNoHat
23 hours ago
Reply to  M SV

5 people? Since introduction, the Mach-E has sold more units worldwide (around 350k units) than the regular Mustang has (around 325k). I’d venture NONE of those were sales that would have gone to the regular Mustang if the Mach-E wasn’t available. If insurance on the Mach-E is very high due to the Mustang name plate that really says more about regular Mustang drivers than Mach-E ones…

My prediction? A 4 four door mustang will easily outsell the 2 door. Just naming it Mustang grants it built-in free marketing that everyone will publish as opposed to if it were called the Fusion or Taurus or Fordor… That was probably Ford’s most brilliant marketing move with the Mach-E, invoking the Mustang heritage which gets all sorts of people all lathered up who then talk about it (like in here) that they wouldn’t do otherwise. All of it is publicity, of which there is no bad version.

M SV
M SV
23 hours ago
Reply to  AllCattleNoHat

The people buying it wanted an electric cuv thing. Ford delivered that. For most of the buyers it wouldn’t have mattered what it was called. They would have been better off to call it the just the Mach e or put it under GT. GT Mache e. Or GT e. They pissed a lot of the mustang guys off. Some of those guys stopped buying mustangs over it. I’ve talked to dozens of Mach e owners. There was only one that was excited it was under mustang. The rest said they didn’t care or didn’t like it especially with the insurance factor. Some I know have traded them in because of the insurance issue. The name is a liability. It’s tied to mustang but isn’t a mustang other then some power drunk person thought it would be good for marketing. Just like the lighting. Mach e shouldn’t exist nor should have the lighting. Should have been bronco sport and maverick bev. Would have sold sold much better. That’s what they are correcting now. Fields and Hackett made some bad calls.

Last edited 23 hours ago by M SV
JDE
JDE
23 hours ago
Reply to  AllCattleNoHat

the question really is will Lincoln try to build on this with a tech heavy supercharged version. Or will they have to revive the cougar name to compete with say a CT5 Blackwing. because honestly I care less about the doors and more about the manual and the supercharged V8.

JDE
JDE
23 hours ago
Reply to  M SV

they got away with it because the Faux Bentley on the Chrysler side was popular and all the FWD sedans were being phased out by Daimler. They put some lipstick on an old 300C and gave it American muscle and people ate it up.

Clueless_jalop
Clueless_jalop
12 hours ago
Reply to  M SV

Apparently the insurance on them is very high because of the mustang nameplate.

That probably doesn’t help, but I’m guessing the high sticker price, unnecessary complexity, and EV acceleration have more to do with that. Insurance companies may make some assumptions in assessing the risk of a given driver, but they can and do make precise calculations on the cars.

M SV
M SV
11 hours ago
Reply to  Clueless_jalop

Some of their agents told them it’s the name. One guy I know turned in his lease and got a over half off deal on a new charger ev. He saved about $90 a month on insurance. That surprised me but I guess the overwhelming number of chargers aren’t causing havoc.

Ray Finkle
Member
Ray Finkle
1 day ago

Executives promised that the four-door Mustang would have a price tag of less than $40,000, a 0-to-60 mph time of under 4 seconds and more rear-seat space than the Panamera

and I can beat Michael Jordan 1 on 1

CR-V Oswald
Member
CR-V Oswald
12 hours ago
Reply to  Ray Finkle

I might be able to beat MJ 1-on-1 at scrabble

Ishkabibbel
Member
Ishkabibbel
1 day ago

For the love of please don’t make the new Camaro ugly like the 6th gen.

Jay Mcleod
Jay Mcleod
1 day ago
Reply to  Ishkabibbel

Don’t worry, it’ll be just beautiful like all the modern GM cars are.

Sean Flaherty
Sean Flaherty
1 day ago

The RX-8 went to “4 doors” for this reason too

JDE
JDE
23 hours ago
Reply to  Sean Flaherty

but they did those right with the clamshells. Gave it adequate egress without making ginormous doors in 2 door form.

I am still wondering when the whole sliding door thing might make it to the front door on some car. I would take a vehicle where the door popped out 6 inches then slid forward for complete opening access.

CivoLee
CivoLee
17 hours ago
Reply to  Sean Flaherty

It really is a shame that the “quad coupe” concept never caught on. You get the style of a coupe with better rear seat access and shorter doors.

But I guess it was too closely associated with Saturn to have any appeal to designers.

Last edited 17 hours ago by CivoLee
M SV
M SV
9 hours ago
Reply to  CivoLee

It was common in trucks of that era too. Almost all had it as an option. Plus Honda used it quite a bit. They did it in a civic and the element. GM used it on some other brands too mainly with the ions siblings. Isuzu did it on at least one SUV. I think Jeep did it on the wrangler for a year or two. It’s superior I don’t understand why it’s not really a thing except for some extend cab trucks. GM has gotten away from it with those stupid half regular doors. They make the back so hard to use because of the pillar.

Last edited 9 hours ago by M SV
4moremazdas
Member
4moremazdas
1 day ago

I have kids and have decidedly gone the “practical daily” route with a Mazda3 hatch, so I’d be interested in a sports sedan roughly in the mold of the Mustang. But I don’t think it should be a Mustang or Camaro.

The problem I see with it is that the traditional long hood/short deck pony car proportions just don’t look as good on a sedan. It always ends up being way too long. that’s one (of many) issues with the new design 4 door Charger. It’s just too damn long.

I think the previous Charger looked fine because it was always its own thing and they weren’t trying to stretch the Challenger 2dr looks to fit 4 doors.

I really like the Chevy SS for the same reason. It’s a muscle sedan, not a stretched Camaro. So I agree with other commenters here that the 4 doors should have their own name. I’m even fine with bringing back the big, previously two door nameplates like Chevelle or Torino. Just don’t try to do a 2 door and 4 door out of the same styling.

And if it’s a choice between no Camaro or a 4 door Camaro (or similar for the Mustang), I still think we should just leave the Camaro name alone. If there’s going to be a Camaro, it should have a long hood/short deck, and there’s just not a good way to make a 4 door look good like that without it becoming enormous.

Kleinlowe
Member
Kleinlowe
1 day ago

On any given day, I’m either walking everywhere or driving 100mi, so I always find TBQ on my mind and tough to answer. There’s just nothing fun that works with gas that’s around $5/gal while being comfortable enough that I’m not dead at the end of the day.

CR-V Oswald
Member
Kleinlowe
Member
Kleinlowe
9 hours ago
Reply to  CR-V Oswald

If gas ever gets back down to $2.50/gal, maybe!

Dogisbadob
Dogisbadob
1 day ago

4-door Mustangs have existed before, like the Fairmont, Lincoln LS, and a few others 😛

Too bad Ford was too stupid to sell the Australian Falcon over here instead of the shitty Panther that was already outdated when it came out. They could’ve made a Mustang out of that platform too.

Bearddevil
Member
Bearddevil
1 day ago

TBQ: The least practical car that I *have* daily driven is my ’70 GTO. But that was in my early 20s. Now that I’m old, and gas isn’t as cheap, and my commute contains no turns, no highways, and no fun, I’m not sure how much impracticality I could stomach on a drive that rewards isolation and efficiency. Let’s say something like a ’60s Eldorado coupe. Pillow-y ride, glacial AC, cushy seats – but still gets atrocious mileage and is terrible to park, so it’s actually impractical.

NewBalanceExtraWide
Member
NewBalanceExtraWide
1 day ago

STARS! I haven’t heard that name in forever. I loved their stuff on Le Grand Magistery.

Mechjaz
Member
Mechjaz
1 day ago

I don’t want you hanging out with that Egg anymore!

Elhigh
Elhigh
1 day ago

Chevy could take another swing at the Impala, which in its fresh-from-the-gym Caprice guise was an imposing family-friendly bruiser. Ford could try again with the Taurus. Back in the day the Taurus SHO was a no-shit performer, a real standout against the rest of the four-door family movers. Instead of making it the gigantic thing it became after they stopped trying to call it the 500, they could’ve tried to make it decently powerful, a capable handler and not huge.

Instead they’re building what they’ll be calling a four-door Mustang. We already have that, the justly maligned Mustang Mach-E. If they’d called it only Mach-E, I could’ve disregarded the name and judged the vehicle solely on its merits. But no. I want to thrash the marketing department about the head and shoulders.

I don't hate manual transmissions
Member
I don't hate manual transmissions
1 day ago

TBQ: Given we all know about the Mach 1 Mustangs from the early ’70s, and Ford made Mach II and Mach III concept cars followed now by the forthcoming Mach 4, how about they keep going so I can daily a Mach 5 (you know, from Speed Racer)? That would be the ultimate in impractical DD.

Old Busted Hotness
Old Busted Hotness
1 day ago

Maybe they’re hoping to snag buyers who fondly remember the Lincoln Mark IV. We’re old enough to be confused enough to at least come into the showroom.

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