Happy Friday, Autopians! On today’s episode, we’re looking at two cars that look like nothing special at all – unless you show them to the right people, and then those people get all excited. But before we do, let’s see which Suzuki you picked:
Looks like the boxy off-roader wins it by a nose. But honestly, these are both cool little cars that deserve good homes. Lots of commenters wanted a “Both” choice, and I actually did consider adding one in when I was making the poll. Thinking about it now, that’s the right call. This is a great two-car garage for someone.
When I was looking for cars the other day, I happened upon something I’d never seen before – a Chrysler Sebring with a very rare option package. I immediately consulted our in-house Sebring expert, S.W. Gossin, and he flipped. Did you have any idea there was a “Holy Grail” version of the Chrysler Sebring convertible? Neither did I. Which got me thinking: Could I find another car that’s a rare and special version of an otherwise humdrum car to pit against it? As it turns out, I could. And it’s a car I’m very familiar with. Let’s get to it.
2003 Chrysler Sebring GTC – $1,000
Engine/drivetrain: 2.7 liter dual overhead cam V6, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: Everett, WA
Odometer reading: 130,000 miles
Runs/drives? Sadly, no
The Chrysler Sebring convertible isn’t a car you’ve probably thought about since the last time a rental agent handed you the keys to one fifteen years ago. After bringing convertibles back to America in 1982 with the LeBaron and Dodge 400, Chrysler got pushed aside by, well, everyone else, and although it continued to improve the LeBaron and then made great leaps forward with the Sebring convertible, Chrysler’s drop-top offerings were too often relegated to rental lots and retirees.
But maybe, just maybe, if more enthusiasts had known about this version, the Sebring could have gotten more respect. For its second generation, the Sebring convertible gained a stiffer structure and improved suspension, making it a decent-handling car, and a serious boost in power from Chrysler’s new 2.7 liter V6. And in this version, the GTC, that 200 horsepower engine fed the front wheels through a five-speed stick. I had absolutely no idea this car existed, and I’m kind of a Mopar guy. The only “cloud car” variant with a manual that I knew of was the base-model Dodge Stratus and Plymouth Breeze, with the Neon’s 2.0 liter four and a five-speed. The Sebring GTC is so rare that I actually had trouble finding any information on it; even Allpar, the great repository of Chrysler lore, barely mentions it.
The trouble here is that the Chrysler 2.7 liter V6 has an Achilles heel, and it’s a doozy. The water pump is mounted inside the V between the cylinder banks, driven by the timing chain, and its gasket has a tendency to fail and allow coolant into the oil. This, of course, contaminates the oil, making it slugdy and ineffective at its one job – lubrication. If the problem is ignored, the engine isn’t long for this world. I don’t know for sure if that’s what happened to this one, but it’s the most common failure on these engines, so it’s a good bet.
The rest of the car, however, looks great. The paint is shiny, the convertible top is new, and the interior looks decent. And it’s only a grand. If you’re willing and able to replace the engine yourself, assuming you can find a good used one, you could have a rare and fun summertime toy for not very much money.
2003 Mazdaspeed Protegé – $3,500
Engine/drivetrain: Turbocharged 2.0 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: Salinas, CA
Odometer reading: 189,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yep!
Now, this car, I am familiar with. Mazda’s third-generation Protegé sedan, known as the 323 or Familia in the rest of the world, is the one and only car I ever bought new, in 2002. Mine was a lowly DX model, bereft of power options or even a tach, but it had the tight handling and the smooth-shifting five-speed manual that had gained the Protegé high praise in reviews. I was proud of my plain white sedan, but when I took it in for its first “freebie” oil change, this car was sitting in the showroom: the Mazdaspeed Protegé.
The MS, as it was known in shorthand in Mazda forums, was an improved version of an earlier Protegé performance package, known as the MP3. It carried over the MP3’s four-wheel disc brakes and Racing Beat suspension pieces, but upped the ante with a turbocharged version of the two-liter FS-DE engine, putting out 170 horsepower instead of the MP3’s 140, or my lowly DX’s 130. The requisite boy-racer body kit and rear wing were included too, and if I remember correctly, they only came in two colors – this lurid pearlescent yellow, or a more grown-up looking pewter silver.
This car isn’t stock, but the degree to which it isn’t stock is unclear. The MOMO steering wheel is aftermarket, of course, and made possible by an airbag-delete hub (kids, don’t try this at home). The wheels aren’t standard either; the seller says they’re Mitsubishi Lancer Evo wheels. They look all right, but I do worry that they’d rub. Cosmetically it’s not bad; it’s missing the lower grille in front, and it looks like the plastic side mirrors have faded at a different rate from the rest of the paint, but for a twenty-year-old performance car aimed at young male buyers, it has held up remarkably well.
The seller says it has a new head gasket and water pump; they should have replaced the timing belt too, but it’s worth asking to make sure. It runs well, and passed its California smog test, but is currently unregistered.
“Special Editions” of cars aren’t always all that special; often they’re just some badges and stripes. But sometimes, an option package transforms a car into something very special indeed, though you have to know what you’re looking at to realize it. These two were something special in their day, though they’re lost among their lesser bretheren in the classifieds now. So what’ll it be: a Chrysler convertible with an extra pedal, or a Mazda sedan with a little more zoom-zoom?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
Nice thing about Chryslers is the parts tend to be cheap and plentiful. And you can get good used Chrysler 2.7L V6 engines for US$500 or less on Car-part.com
You’ll spend more on labour pulling the old engine and installing the replacement.
Also the Mazda has clearly been molested and had stupid mods done to it while the Chrysler hasn’t.
So the Chrysler gets my vote in this case.
I love those Mazdaspeeds, and I’m sure it’s the right choice, but I worry it’ll dissolve as soon as it crosses into Illinois. Plus, the Sebring has Gossin Cool Points. We’ll take the Chrysler.
With the amount of people here showing enthusiastic love for the Sebring convertible, I would say that this has evolved into a thread where Autopian members reveal their deepest, darkest, and most disturbing secrets.
Seriously I’ve only ever encountered one human being who loved the Sebring convertible, the fictional character Michael Scott.
If this were actually THAT Sebring, I’d be willing to pay $1000.
I am shocked ANYBODY picked the sebring. I remember working at enterprise when the 2.7 came out it was so nad every sebring and intrepid with that motor blew below 40,000mi. We thought it was just because it was rentals and we actually owned a sebring convertible. Bought it used for $1500 6 years old with a blown motor. Did yall know to take out the motor you gotta remove the ENTIRE suspension! Or to replace the headlight bulbs you gotta take off the bumper.
Now the Mazdaspeed is special. Racing beat (yes the rotary tuners racing beat) built an entire suspension for that car in hopes of mazda competing with the gsr integra in scca touring. Results were the mp3 version had the highest slalom speed of any fed car and a highers slalom speed then cars like the m3 and corvette at the time. Also the came with a Torsen torgue sensing limited slip differential when the rax type s or srt 4 neon at the time. The only problem with these cars is everyone thought this motor was a larger 2.0 version of the bp 1.8 in the miata and once everyone turned up the boost and modified them the internals couldn’t take it. Callaway installed a garrett turbocharger kit once the cars reached the port in america. This car was never offered anywhere but america amd they are very rare. Also these cars came in papaya orange, silver, black and yellow. Only made for 2 years each year had it’s own 2 color choices. Great effort from mazda but it ultimately failed unlike the mazdaspeed 3 which had a factory turbocharged engine with beefed up internals that took boost well.
I am in Australia so my most of my experience with cab-forward Chrysler products came from the US version of the office (Michael Scotts car at one point) and Grand Turismo 2 (which had the Dodge Stratus and whatever the Plymouth version of the Mitsubishi Eclipse / Eagle Talon was) however one of our TAFEs (technical school) had a black Sebring cabriolet just like this one sitting unrunning – I think they were going to use it to train people on converting LHD to RHD. It was Kangan in Docklands in around 2014 if anyone else here is from Melbourne and knows more. Bit like that RHD Camry import featured on the site recently – a very rare car here and kinda why? Anyway, I think they look quite handsome in the sense that they aren’t over designed, no extra frippery. So I have gone that. I’d just try put a Camry 3.0 V6 in.
As for the Protege – I have had 2x 2002 ‘BJII’ series Mazda 323s – a red 1.6l 5 door (Astina) and a Maroon 1.8l sedan (Protege). I love the way they drive. I bought the 1.6 in around 2013 with 131000kms and sold it 3 years later at 168000kms and it only needed regular maintenance and a wheel alignment. The 1.8 I bought for a grand on an online auction as I wanted another manual car, this one had done 231000kms and drove sweetly when I picked it up but to get roadworthy – a safety inspection before you can register it in your name and continue to legally drive in your name which vehicles have to do here in Aus – it needed a new seatbelt, a new catalytic converter, a new rocker cover gasket, a new clutch and a rear main seal. About 4k of work in addition to the 1k I paid. It also needed a battery about 6 months later. Basically I love them but at 189000 miles its probably gonna need a bit of work mechanically.
Anyone voting for the Sebring convertible has never driven one.
Yes, structurally it’s a noodle.
Even worse, it’s the only car that I’ve ever driven that I felt like I could not see out the -front-. The dash seemed really high, the windshield header really low, and the inside rear view mirror has an inordinately large housing. Basically leaving a pair of windshield slots to look through. Reminded me of a Panzer.
This, and when the top is up you have no rearward vision except directly behind you – despite the doors being four football fields long. The B-pillar blind spots aren’t really worse than any other convertible, but combined with the narrow windshield, it makes you want to drop the top regardless of weather just so you don’t feel claustrophobic. The lack of structural integrity is just icing on the cake. A friend had a 2003 non-GTC in 2003 and it was awful to drive but great to make fun of.
I can see a world where I might want that Chrysler, but it ain’t this one.
The Sebring actually sounds interesting with it being tremendously rare and all, especially with the stick, but the 2.7 scares me straight into the superior Mazda. Plus, wagon > droptop any day.
Having owned 16 cars the one I miss the most was the cabrio (admittedly an NC MX-5, not a Sebring). Something about feeling more a part of the passing world really does it for me. Plus that Protege is a sedan not a wagon (I’ve had a BJ II 323 sedan and wagon too both good cars)
I’m not a fan of buying a project that I’m not passionate about. That means that both of these cars would be very difficult to take home. But I’d much rather drop out and replace a Sebring engine than de-rice that tired Mazda.
I’ve owned that generation of Sebring (2004 GTC, actually) and didn’t even know they offered a manual. It’s a very enjoyable summer top down car, and for a while you could find them near me pretty cheaply. This price would make it tempting, if it were close by.
I can’t think of any reason to own this Mazda that doesn’t involve deliberately trashing it more. And $3500 is far too much for it in this condition.
Hmm Sebring convertible vs. Mazdaspeed Protege. I’d take the Protege over the Sebring if it were a base model DX.
Okay Sebring
1. Most likely if told used to be owned by a little old lady who drove it only on Sunday it would be true.
2. Mazda likely if told passed down by the local methhead as each got arrested also probably true.
Another both but can swap the motor on the Sebring for less than $2,500 and not deal with hooptie mazda so Seabreeze
You would spend $2500 in repairs on a Sebring convertible?
They could be PAYING me to take that Sebring and I’d still turn it down. That damned 2.7 with it’s sludge problems and timing chain driven water pump was a huge pain in the ass to deal with when I worked for Chrysler.
To remove the engine from the Sebring, it must be dropped, not lifted out.
My grandfather had an ’04 Sebring convertible, also a GTC, though sadly an automatic. Silver over black (well, dark grey) with a black top. I wouldn’t’ve named torsional rigidity as one of its particular strengths, but you did hear more than you felt over bumps, unlike the following generation with its unnecessary 18″ wheels (versus these earlier models’ fat sidewalls on 16s). Overall, I liked it – comfortable fuzzy cloth seats, perfectly fine handling (though oddly heavy steering) balanced with a smooth ride, plenty of power (though the transmission was sluggish and that 2.7 had all the character of a hair dryer) – but I don’t fancy the idea of doing much wrenching on one.
Then again, without an airbag, I couldn’t get the Mazda through an inspection, and it’s too expensive and arguably too nice for LeMons until it has a New England winter or two worth of holes.
I’m with DrillnFill today – as fun as the Mazda would be to own, at least for a bit, it would attract the wrong kind of attention, and up here, they don’t skimp on the road salt. Meanwhile, a manual Sebring’s just too odd to pass up in decent shape, and apart from the engine, this one appears to be. I’d just have to find a guy.
Edit: This decision is solely because the Sebring’s a convertible, and assuming that the top motor was replaced along with the top itself, because manually raising a power top requires some yoga-esque posing to hold down the button while gently helping the ailing motor. If the damn thing won’t go back up on its own, deal’s off. If the Sebring was, hypothetically, a sedan instead, maybe for LeMons, but no, I’d be finding a stock wheel and new airbag for the Mazda.
The picture of the engine bay on the Sebring was triggering enough that I didn’t even look at the Protégé. I don’t care. Rats? don’t care, spiders? Do. Not. Care. I won’t set butt in a Sebring, never mind own one, no… Just no…
The thing about cars with stiff suspensions is that they develop a lot of squeaks and rattles over time as all of that energy that should have been absorbed by a soft suspension was transferred to the chassis. In 1996, my brother bought an 84 Corvette with the Z51 suspension package–it still cornered like it was on rails but it sounded like angry birdcage inside. So…my gut tells me that, even though it won’t handle as nicely, the Sebring will be far more livable than the Mazda squawk box is likely to be.
for the Jelly Bean Era the Sebring is not the worst looking bean on the road, the manual trans is a positive, but nothing redeeming can be said for that terrible motor.
Even though it it the worst color ever and riced out enough to make me wanna turn away immediately, I would still rather have the Mazda if I had to take one of these boxes.
Everyone’s saying that Mazda is “rice out” and trashed, but all I see is some different wheels (at least oem quality and likely forged) and a sweet-ass Momo steering wheel.
What am I missing?
As much I would have loved to have one of those MSPs in 2003, this one looks tired. I mean, that is what I’d expect from a 20 year old car that has probably attracted the worst kind of owners in the past 10.
The Sebring, even in its non-operational status, looks way too nice for $1k. Buy that, swap in some sort of motor, have a nice cruiser for still not a lot of money.
LS swap for the Sebring!
It’s a ‘vert for Sunday Drives. More like Harbor Freight engine swap for this one.
No brainer for me today. I’m not going to change an engine in my garage, but even if I spend $2500 for someone else to insert a used/remanufactured engine, I’ll have a nice, well-kept, black convertible that’s not short on power, for basically F-it money.
That Mazda? With all the goofy mods (just how many multicolored chrome pipes does todays boy racer need under the hood?) and the fact it looks like it’s been used hard? I can only roll my eyes at that small, tinny and buzzy penalty box that likely stinks of reefer and AXE body spray. Like Lt Murtagh,
“I’m too old for this sh*t!” =)
In 2008 I was very close to buying a Sebring just like this one. Manual trans and all. Deal fell through and I wound up with a ’03 with GTC with the auto. While not a performance car, it was a great road tripper with a useable interior that fit two real humans in the back seat.
I voted Chrysler. I’ll put the work in.
I dig your style!^
I’m not sure I’d take the Sebring if you paid me $1000.