Home » Ford And GM Are Running Back To Trucks As EV Demand Falters

Ford And GM Are Running Back To Trucks As EV Demand Falters

Tmd Trucks
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Both Ford and GM are going to announce their first quarter financial reports next week and, in doing so, it’ll be incumbent upon the companies to explain how the money is going to be made. Is it going to be electric cars? Absolutely not. It’s probably going to be gas-powered trucks. That’s good news for them and bad news for anyone hoping to ride EVs to profitability.

While Nissan does sell some big trucks here in the United States, the company doesn’t do so in China, and bad sales there and mediocre performance around the world has it reconsidering its profitability forecasts for the year. Will Europe save Nissan? it doesn’t look like it, as the European car market had a down March.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

It’s Friday and I like to end the week here at The Morning Dump on something happy. Corvette has had one lead engineer for basically the entire time I’ve been doing this car thing and he’s a cool dude and he’s retiring, so I’m gonna shout him out.

Let’s Do Some Big Pickup Trucks, Y’all!

2024 Ford F-150 Stx 01

Boots Riley always seems prescient, so let’s quote from his old group The Coup:

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Even hillbillies at a party linedancin
Get they Ford trucks with poor financing
Banks that give the loan figure – damn, in the worst case
We makin money cause we had it in the first place!

Google tells me this is the second time I’ve quoted The Coup in TMD so I’m giving myself the ability to quote them once every, oh, quarter or so.

Big trucks have been profit centers for Detroit automakers and will likely continue to be for some time. Investors and the media have been freaking out over the future of electric cars for the last couple of years, but the cold hard reality of the present is that the current product offerings/infrastructure are not well matched to current demand.

Where can investors go? Why, to makers of big ol’ trucks, that’s who. Both Ford and GM make excellent big trucks. I’ve driven a newer Escalade and GMC Sierra 2500 HD and, damn, great trucks. The new F-150 and Expedition? Pretty darn nice, too.

All of this is to say that Reuters got a preview of what GM and Ford are gonna say and…

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The slowdown in global electric-vehicle demand, intensifying competition from Chinese automakers and high U.S. borrowing costs have forced the U.S. automakers to delay investments and ratchet down costs over the past 12 months. With China’s economy slowing and U.S. inflation running hot, a macroeconomic growth boost looks a long way off.

That has companies like GM and Ford focusing on sales of their core gasoline-powered vehicles, from which they derive most of their profit. GM and Ford are scheduled to report results on Tuesday and Wednesday, respectively.

GM CEO Mary Barra will get a lift from strong demand for the automaker’s highly profitable Chevrolet and GMC brand pickup trucks and SUVs. Barclays earlier this month boosted its target price for GM shares by 10% to $55, citing robust sales for GM’s truck and SUV lineup.

Trucks, trucks, SUVs, trucks, hybrids, trucks. Hybrid trucks.

Or, if you’re Toyota: hybrids, trucks, hybrid trucks, hybrids, trucks.

Nissan: About Those Profits…

2025 Nissan Kicks 38

I already told you a few weeks ago about Nissan’s “ARC” plan to pull itself out of the doldrums, and it turns out that in the process of putting that plan together the company’s accountants realized how far way Nissan was from the zenith of that arc.

From good ol’ Hans over at Automotive News:

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CEO Makoto Uchida, who just unveiled a new mid-term plan focused on shoring up profitability, said the slipping volume and “cost relief” for suppliers undermined Nissan’s business trajectory.

“Were we overoptimistic?” Uchida said during a snap news conference to explain the Japanese automaker’s latest sales downgrade. “Yes, it’s true we did not reach what we anticipated.”

In plotting Nissan’s new three-year midterm plan, which is called The Arc and was unveiled late last month, product planners realized some of the company’s sales goals were a bit too rosy.

This is like me every time I plan out what we’re going to do on a Saturday and it always ends with me rushing through the grocery store trying to do a Supermarket Sweep and forgetting, like, pomegranates.

Europe: Is It Easter Or EVs?

Peugeot 408phev 2206cn 031 62b1d10db09c7

The timing of Easter wasn’t great for automakers in Europe this year, but is that the reason why Europe saw a sales decline in March? Overall, passenger car sales in Europe dropped 2.8% while EVs saw an 11% drop.

This Bloomberg article walks through some of the potential issues:

The decline, due in part to the timing of Easter, is the second in four months and underscores the pressure carmakers face amid higher interest rates, weaker economic growth and the phasing out of generous subsidies to stoke demand for EVs. Volkswagen AG, Mercedes-Benz Group AG and Tesla Inc. have all reported lower EV sales in the first quarter of the year.

The trend is pushing some traditional automakers to rethink when they will phase out combustion engines, and others have backtracked on EV targets. In February, Mercedes-Benz pushed back its sales forecast and now expects battery-powered vehicles to be stuck at less than half of its sales for longer than anticipated.

In Germany, the sudden pullback of EV incentives certainly didn’t help. In fact, the only car type that improved sales in March were plug-in hybrids.

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Goodbye, Tadge!

Tadge Jucther

I started doing this job in 2007, which means when I first encountered the Corvette as an automotive journalist the guy who had the info was always Tadge Juechter, the Executive Chief Engineer for Corvette since 2006 and a guy involved with the Corvette since 1993.

During my foray as an automotive filmmaker, I got to work on the new Corvette C8 debut and had a couple of interactions with Tadge. I’ve always found him to be a great guy with a passion for what he does, which is no surprise because what he’s done for most of his career is extremely awesome.

The C8 Corvette ZR1 will debut this summer and that debut will mark the end of Juechter’s long career with GM. Car and Driver has the best write-up on Juchter and his career so I think you should go read that:

Our own Rich Ceppos, who’s had illustrious careers at both C/D and GM, was in many meetings with Tadge and joined him on a lot of development rides. About the Corvette guru, Ceppos said this:

“Tadge was articulate and personable dealing with the media and the public, but inside GM he was all business, a whirlwind of quiet competence and astute leadership, grinding it out every day. The measure of a great chief engineer isn’t just a thorough understanding of physics or thermodynamics—or even a detailed knowledge of the desires of customers. It’s their ability to get their company to produce great cars. Tadge got the huge and often recalcitrant GM organization to do just that, which makes him the most important Corvette chief engineer since Zora Arkus-Duntov.”

Good luck with whatever’s next.

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What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

I had to do it. Not only is it The Coup, but we also get Del Tha Funkee Homosapien.

The Big Question

Ford’s stock price is about even year-to-date, GM’s is up about 20%, and Telsa’s is down about 40%. Where do you think they’ll all end up at the end of the year?

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Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
26 days ago

Regarding big pickup trucks… They never actually stopped relying on big pickup trucks, did they? I mean, there was a little blip in 2009, but that’s about it.
And that won’t change with the shift to BEVs as it will just mean a shift to electric pickup trucks.

And I don’t see it changing as long as the CAFE footprint rule exists.

Regarding Nissan and the statement “Were we overoptimistic?” Uchida said during a snap news conference to explain the Japanese automaker’s latest sales downgrade. “Yes, it’s true we did not reach what we anticipated.”

I’m thinking somewhere out there, Carlos Ghosn is having a laugh and saying something along the lines of “Of course you didn’t you asshole”.

Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar
28 days ago

Did Ford or GM really ever turn away from their bread and butter pickup trucks? Just because they made the Mach E and Equinox EV doesn’t mean they just let the F-150 and Silverado die on the vine.

I think this is the point where variety starts to reward the bigger companies. Hybrids, ICE, EVs, have something on the lot for a wider variety of buyers. Tesla has likely sold a Tesla to 90% of the people who’d consider one at this point. They also arguably damaged the biggest selling point of a Tesla, the exclusivity of the Superchargers. Now your $100k Model S buyer is going to have to wait in line behind a Hyundai Ioniq 5.

Last edited 28 days ago by Vic Vinegar
Aardvark775
Aardvark775
29 days ago

Not surprising that in an election year, the government has bowed to union pressure to keep gas guzzling trucks dirt cheap while making EVs too expensive for the average consumer by effectively banning Chinese imports. The Democrats only pretend to care about the environment when it suits them for getting votes.

Jb996
Jb996
28 days ago
Reply to  Aardvark775

As opposed to the right-wing who never even bothers anymore to pretend to care about anything other than fear mongering, wealthy people, lies, and power.

Huh, I guess I’ll just have to deal with some overstated environmental commitments.

Space
Space
28 days ago
Reply to  Aardvark775

Wait, the government doesn’t set the price of trucks. The companies and dealers do.
The only thing the government can do is tax it (think Cafe) or subsidize it. In fact there is a tax credit on electric vehicles right now.
None of this makes sense.

Greensoul
Greensoul
29 days ago

This newish system of corporations having to show a profit every 3 months truly pisses me off!!! Wasn’t like that in the old days when profits were judged on a yearly basis. It was so much easier for these evil corporations to do long term planning when every 3 month quarter didn’t matter as much. This new profit reporting method has destroyed any potential for them to do long term planning. OMG, I despise corporations. They own most politicians, have lobbyist, and are nothing but evil. Too big to fail??? My taxpaying ass disagrees. When they do fail from their short term thinking, the government will just steal my money to bail them out and give their worthless CEO’s a billion dollar golden parachute retirement/you’re fired package to boot. Truly fucking disgusting.

AceRimmer
AceRimmer
27 days ago
Reply to  Greensoul

Hail, hail! I work in healthcare and am genuinely sickened that insurance and Rx manufacturers run America’s system, not, you know, the physicians, nurses, therapists, etc. that went to school for years. They make record profits while we all suffer for the top percent!

Greensoul
Greensoul
27 days ago
Reply to  AceRimmer

Amen! I sadly work in the health insurance industry. The amount of corporate welfare these companies gets is mind blowing. A person gets a basic plan through the MP, the government picks up the most of the $1,300 a month premium (APTC), and I can’t find the person a pcp that will take their plan within a 100 mile radius of their home and this person lives in a well populated city! Every year I see the insurance premiums skyrocket and the APTC amounts the taxpayer is picking up increasing, as I see the selection of Doctors and specialty clinics that will take the insurance getting smaller and smaller.
Don’t get me started on big pharma. When a RX company can spend millions on TV commercials to push their drugs that’s all the proof we need that our healthcare system is truly broken.
Rant over. Now back to reading about cars. Cars & RV’s are my happy place LOL

It's a minivan
It's a minivan
29 days ago

Tell me again why we can’t have Chinese evs?

Space
Space
28 days ago
Reply to  It's a minivan

Manufacturing jobs, national security reasons.

It's a minivan
It's a minivan
27 days ago
Reply to  Space

What manufacturing jobs? Nobody is producing a competitor.

I’d also like someone to explain the national security issues that couldn’t be mitigated, preferably in small words for me. They might… stop selling them to us? Shouldn’t matter because there’s allegedly no demand for them. Brick all the cars? Ban over the air updates.

Space
Space
27 days ago
Reply to  It's a minivan

For security issues. You covered some of them, they could brick the cars or let’s say a certain politician won’t sign a bill they want they could covertly drive it off a bridge. At a more basic level having industrial capacity and institutional knowledge is useful at the start of a war. Yes people can be trained to weld, design mechanical components, or assemble but that can waste weeks or years. it’s possible to say convert a truck plant to an APC factory quickly building one from scratch takes more time.
Could that be mitigated? Sure we could pay to have defense contractors sit around and occasionally make things for a high price (we already do to a degree, now expand that more.)
I don’t think there is a way to mitigate the control over a car’s computers, completely disable any networking?

Vetatur Fumare
Vetatur Fumare
26 days ago
Reply to  It's a minivan

The real question is why we cannot build the equivalents here: the tax system promotes large, expensive vehicles. It is a simple fix, but one that is nearly impossible to imagine happening.

Daniel MacDonald
Daniel MacDonald
29 days ago

I really want to root for the American car makers but it’s so hard sometimes. Even in 2024 it’s like they cannot abandon the approach that printed them money in the 1920s-1960s even though the world has fundamentally changed and they can never go back to their golden era. They just keep catering to American’s own worst instincts which would be totally fine if they didn’t abandon any pretense of making other product, leaving them up short when gas prices change, or a better competitor comes in. Combined with inflation you’d think it was the late ’70s all over again.

Ironically the “kids” are wearing flares again…

Thevenin
Thevenin
29 days ago

I think if automakers pivot back to $50k-$70k luxury trucks, they’ll find out the hard way that their $50k-$70k luxury EVs were selling poorly not because they were EVs, but because they were $50k-$70k in a high interest rate year.

I’m no MBA, but if I was in the business, I’d be pivoting back to fundamentals: stop chasing stock prices and golden parachutes and just make inexpensive, unpretentious, utilitarian vehicles. You can do this with any propulsion system, but EVs are due for their Model T moment — and with Tesla just abandoning their lead, it’s anyone’s game now. The Kia EV3, Hyundai Kona EV, Volvo/Geely EX30, and Chevy Equinox are all starting under $35k. The next-gen Mini and Leaf are anticipated to have >200mi for <$35k as well.

Last edited 29 days ago by Thevenin
Johnpmac
Johnpmac
28 days ago
Reply to  Thevenin

Right. Then they push the narrative that people don’t want EVs. Meanwhile, the want for an inexpensive EVs is through the roof. When we bailed them out in 2008 they took that as a sign that they were allowed to screw over the public – because y’know – greed. So let them fail. My Hyundai is awesome.
To coin a phrase – the economy of the future is not built on the technology of the past.

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
29 days ago

As seen on Craigslist:

“For Sale – 2005 Honda Accord”
Keywords: Ford F150, Chevrolet Silverado, GMC Sierra, RAM 1500…

Greensoul
Greensoul
29 days ago

Please don’t make laugh that hard again, I’m feeling side pain now. Gotta love Craigslist

Robot Turds
Robot Turds
29 days ago

This is GM and Ford once again being super lazy. Yeah. Like it worked out really great the last time they decided to rely almost entirely on large trucks and SUVs… How about come up with actual innovative desirable cars ands crossovers that people want to buy like Kia is doing?

MAX FRESH OFF
MAX FRESH OFF
29 days ago

The Coup’s Steal This Album has one of my favorite songs about driving a shitty car – Cars and Shoes!

“Now if ya gettin’ in my car don’t sit down right away/Cause my passenger seat tilts sideways/And don’t even try to lean the shit back/The whole damn thang’ll fall off the track”

https://genius.com/The-coup-cars-and-shoes-lyrics

Strangek
Strangek
29 days ago

I’m gonna start blaming stuff on Easter too.

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
29 days ago
Reply to  Strangek

The Easter Bunny ate my homework.

Greensoul
Greensoul
29 days ago

the easter bunny left little round things on my floor. I thought that they were m&m’s or something like that. Turns out they weren’t. Note to myself, not all little round brown things are m&m’s

Greensoul
Greensoul
29 days ago
Reply to  Greensoul

Another note to myself, don’t automatically stick things that look like m&m’s in my mouth

Jacob Rippey
Jacob Rippey
29 days ago

I know that Ford’s got to be in trouble when I start seeing massive rebates on new F-150’s. There’s a dealer in VA that is selling brand new STX F-150’s for 8K under sticker at the moment. That almost makes them tempting…

WR250R
WR250R
29 days ago
Reply to  Jacob Rippey

As someone who is going to need a new truck, possibly this year, this is good news compared to the last couple years

Ben
Ben
29 days ago
Reply to  Jacob Rippey

This is the market returning to normal. Pre-covid, fullsize trucks were usually discounted heavily from MSRP.

That said, I’m sure the automakers aren’t thrilled that their windfall from the past few years is ending.

NW_6MT
NW_6MT
29 days ago
Reply to  Jacob Rippey

Counterpoint: A dealer near Portland, Oregon is currently advertising 23k dealer adjustment on new 150 raptors and 20k on 150 XLT w/ black widow package (whatever that is…).

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
29 days ago

Trucks, trucks, SUVs, trucks, hybrids, trucks. Hybrid trucks.
Or, if you’re Toyota: hybrids, trucks, hybrid trucks, hybrids, trucks.

Lovely Spam Trucks! Wonderful Spam Trucks!
Lovely Spam Trucks! Wonderful Spam Trucks!
Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am Tru-c-c-c-c-c-c-ks
Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am Tru-c-c-c-c-c-c-ks
Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am Tru-c-c-c-c-c-c-ks
Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am Tru-c-c-c-c-c-c-ks
Lovely Spam Trucks! (Lovely Spam Trucks!)
Lovely Spam Trucks! (Lovely Spam Trucks!)
Lovely Spam Trucks!
Spam Trucks, Spam Trucks, Spam Trucks, Spam Trucks!

H4llelujah
H4llelujah
29 days ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

I appreciate the dedication and work that went into this lol

Last edited 29 days ago by H4llelujah
Radiant13
Radiant13
29 days ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

The only way this could be better is with a “Truck-ity Trucks” somewhere in the chorus.

Greensoul
Greensoul
29 days ago
Reply to  Radiant13

Amen brother!

Drew
Drew
29 days ago

Ford’s stock price is about even year-to-date, GM’s is up about 20%, and Telsa’s is down about 40%. Where do you think they’ll all end up at the end of the year?

Ford’s probably going to slip, since they are reducing hybrids and dropping EV prices without anything super compelling coming up.

GM, if they continue with their plan to increase the number of hybrid/PHEV models and affordable EVs.

Tesla is almost certainly going to continue to drop, though a pivot to focusing on being a charging company could stabilize them, since every brand is going to start using Supercharger stations soon.

Needles Balloon
Needles Balloon
29 days ago

Whoever can bring decent PHEVs to the market will have the most potential to gain; I think Ford will win in this regard since they already have 2 PHEV powertrains already, and 2-3 of their HEV options could be fairly easy conversions with just a bigger battery, charge port and software tweaks. GM will probably have to take a while to get their PHEVs modernized and up and running again.

I think Tesla will stay down, and may encounter some issues with their charge network since many new brands become compatible soon. Higher demand is good, but the complications of having to install new chargers that don’t have stupidly short cables, and the possible loss in charging station ‘product quality’ may cause issues for them.

Drew
Drew
29 days ago

GM will probably have to take a while to get their PHEVs modernized and up and running again.

I’m not sure that’s true. If they can take their Chinese designs and make any necessary adjustments for the US market, GM has a number of PHEVs ready to go.

Needles Balloon
Needles Balloon
29 days ago
Reply to  Drew

I kinda forgot about GM’s Chinese market PHEVs.

Looking into it, the very recently launched 2025 Equinox PHEV uses a (non-Atkinson/Miller cycle) 170hp 1.5T with a 188hp motor powered by a 9.6kWh (unknown if usable or gross capacity) LFP battery. This sounds pretty viable for the US market, except that the battery is too small if that number is gross capacity; competitors have 50-100% larger capacities. A switch to the conventional Li-ion NCM chemistry could help it get enough capacity without occupying more space.

The other PHEV sold there is effectively the successor to the Volt, the Buick Velite 6. Its powertrain is too weak for the US, as it makes 180hp combined from a 97hp 1.5L engine. It sounds similar to the old Prius Prime, and would only be useful in small carlike applications which GM has abandoned in the US market. It’s powerful enough for the Trax/Trailblazer, but it would ruin their cost effectiveness and thus their competitiveness.

Drew
Drew
29 days ago

Its powertrain is too weak for the US, as it makes 180hp combined

Counterpoint: the Kia Niro does alright in the US with 139 horsepower combined, so they could compete with it and some others. Also, there’s nothing saying they couldn’t throw a stronger engine and/or electric motor if they make the packaging work.

Considering Ford just dropped the Explorer hybrid from their lineup and don’t seem interested in expanding their PHEV selection, I think GM’s Chinese platforms at least put them in a reasonable position to do better than Ford (unless Ford really steps up).

Needles Balloon
Needles Balloon
28 days ago
Reply to  Drew

GM only sells crossovers and trucks in the non-luxury segment, and I consider the Niro to be a hatchback. I was more focused on the 97hp 1.5L engine, which is too slow for when the battery is depleted, even with some remaining hybrid boost. A 2.0L engine would probably be a sufficient fix.

Drew
Drew
28 days ago

The Niro, Crosstrek, etc. are probably mostly hatchback, but they are marketed as “subcompact crossovers.” The Trax only has 137 hp (and the Trailblazer has 137 or 155), so it could take that powertrain without issue. Sure, the 97 hp would be slow without the motor, but there’s plenty of opportunity to engineer around that by never allowing the motor to disconnect, changing the engine a bit, or a number of other solutions. The one that seems common is that there is always enough reserve for the motor to kick on to aid acceleration, then the engine can be enough to maintain cruising speed.

As to the value proposition, I think it wouldn’t make them prohibitively expensive, since a lot of the engineering has already been done, the components have largely seen use in China, and GM claims to be committed to bringing competitive hybrids and EVs to market.

Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
29 days ago

> Its powertrain is too weak for the US, as it makes 180hp combined from a 97hp 1.5L engine.

Whut? How’s 180hp weak?

Do price-sensitive buyers even care about HP?

Needles Balloon
Needles Balloon
28 days ago

I personally hate to call 180hp weak, but I made that comment from the POV of the general public based on a couple factors:

1) When the battery is drained and is effectively running in HEV-like mode, 97hp + minor hybrid boost would be old Prius levels of slow. Definitely still usable in some car applications, but it’d still be considered a con by reviewers for any vehicle. This is compounded by the significant additional weight of the battery.

2) GM exclusively sells crossovers and trucks (once they finally kill the Malibu) in the non-luxury segment, which generally have higher power requirements than similarly sized sedans/hatchbacks. For example, midsize sedans generally have similar powertrains to compact crossovers, despite being larger.

3) The increased price point of a PHEV would start pushing it out of the range of price-sensitive buyers and into buyers who want decent power in all situations.

Last edited 28 days ago by Needles Balloon
Scoutdude
Scoutdude
29 days ago

I agree if they want to they should be able to get a lot of PHEVs to market quickly. They had planned on a PHEV F-150 and that basic system did end up in the Euro only PHEV Explorer and the Aviator. So yeah much of the work is already done to bring a PHEV F-150, Ranger, Explorer, Navigator and maybe even a Bronco to market.

The Escape PHEV’s system should drop right into the Maverick and Bronco Sport. Heck when they announced the Maverick they did state that they had “protected” the design for a PHEV application.

The only 2 questions are; 1 what vehicles do they want to offer it on and 2 how quickly can they ramp up supplies of the necessary components. The plant that makes the Hybrid transaxles is having difficulty keeping up with demand as it is. On the other hand I think a PHEV Maverick would mostly take sales from the Hybrid Maverick so it could be a wash on that front.

A PHEV Maverick would get me into the showroom.

Drew
Drew
29 days ago
Reply to  Scoutdude

I actually canceled a Maverick order on the rumor the PHEV was coming, then Ford denied the rumor. I still hold some hope.

Ryan L
Ryan L
29 days ago

So you would bet against standard oil at the turn of the century? The supercharger network is the gold standard, Every article I ever read about EA is about how garbage their network is. I don’t like Elon or Tesla all that much but the other manufacturers ceding the full stack top to bottom to Musk is about as stupid as it gets.

Tesla

  • 1st to mass market
  • Won the plug standard wars
  • Licensing/Opening up Charging Network
  • Owns the entire product lifecylcle – sales, charging, service
  • Cut out dealers

The only part of the transportation stack they haven’t done is licensed/built private roads (could argue the boreing project in Las Vegas was an experiment of that)

Needles Balloon
Needles Balloon
29 days ago
Reply to  Ryan L

Ford’s stock price is about even year-to-date, GM’s is up about 20%, and Telsa’s is down about 40%. Where do you think they’ll all end up at the end of the year?

So you would bet against standard oil at the turn of the century?

I wouldn’t, but the temporary downturn of the EV market is likely going to continue for the rest of the year.

Additionally, Tesla’s stock price has been overinflated for quite a while, so it’s natural for it to deflate somewhat since they’re no longer releasing products that are first to market or especially revolutionary, like a $25k Model 2.

Ryan L
Ryan L
29 days ago

Yes bull long, bear short on tesla.

A lot of the headwinds against EVs are also headwinds against 50k + ICE vehicles.

Money is expensive, Cost of Living is up, Wages are up but not enough.

Tesla will have some room to go down yet for sure – it was absolutely overvalued. That doesn’t mean it isn’t in the catbird seat for the eventual 5-10- 20 year transition to EVs.

They have a lot of potential revenue streams that can be milked. Think about the value locked up in the data streams from all the early adopters they have from their head start alone.

Greg
Greg
29 days ago

Trucks are going to be in trouble with rates not dropping and prices climbing. From what I can see that is already starting in some areas.

Last edited 29 days ago by Greg
Mikkeli
Mikkeli
29 days ago
Reply to  Greg

I was able to replace my pretty basic 6 year old GMC Canyon (a spec they don’t even offer anymore, to reduce the overlap with the Colorado) with a pretty base spec ford Maverick XL (no order – sitting on lot). The fancy F150s sure looked good, but you can buy 3 mavs for a high end king ranch F150. My insurance actually got cheaper.

V10omous
V10omous
29 days ago
Reply to  Greg

Rebates/subsidized loan rates are coming back.

The market is healing back to 2019-style where the sticker price was just a suggestion, especially for trucks.

Anxious John
Anxious John
29 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

Boy do I hope so.

V10omous
V10omous
29 days ago
Reply to  Anxious John

Already happening locally.

Ford is mailing me $3000 coupons for new Super Duties, just like they did in 2018-19.

Dealers advertising multi-thousand dollar discounts on trucks and/or 1.9% for 72 months.

Goose
Goose
29 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

Ford is mailing me $3000 coupons for new Super Duties, just like they did in 2018-19.

Totally agree and similar discounts seems to be happening in my area even on the non-HD stuff as well. But the problem is, sticker prices are hugely higher than they were in 2019. While all things are more expensive, trucks & SUVs seem to be some of the things with the largest price hikes since then. My parents are looking to replace their 2019 Lariat F150, the sticker price is at least 1/3rd higher than 5 years ago, for the most similar spec you can get. So the same $3k-$8k off sticker doesn’t make near as much a difference in 2024 as it did in 2019.

V10omous
V10omous
29 days ago
Reply to  Goose

Agreed that the prices are still higher but 1) I don’t think we’ve reached the max discounts, and 2) incomes are up too. I’m not in the market, but if I was I’d be holding out a bit longer.

Ryan L
Ryan L
29 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

My neighbor has a Ford Fiesta he loves that I believe was a pot sweetner to buy a F150 back when gas prices spiked pre pandemic

Goof
Goof
29 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

Yep. From my understanding, big dealers, particularly anywhere west or south of the Appalachian mountains (so outside the US east coast and New England/NE), and outside of LA/SFBA, are absolutely sitting on mountains of truck and crossover inventory they absolutely cannot move right.

Way too many $70-100K trucks they thought they’d still be able to tack some ADM onto, and now they’re absolutely desperate to push them through the channel before the cost of maintaining that inventory and floor plan eats them alive.

Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
29 days ago
Reply to  Greg

Will they though? People have been taking out reckless loans for American trucks for ages at this point, and the manufacturers enable it. Ford, GM, and Ram all have special financing for their trucks with significantly longer terms and unique interest rates. Even though it’s an $80,000 vehicle or whatever through the magic of predatory financing it can me made into a $799 monthly payment that John Doe can manage on his $60,000 salary.

If you’ve got a pulse and a driver’s license they’ll put you one of these damn things. It’s not like trying to get approved to finance a Porsche or something. Big daddy Ford, etc. have got you covered. It’s your right as a free American to have the brodozer of your dreams.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
29 days ago

People have been taking out reckless loans for American trucks for ages at this point, and the manufacturers enable it.

Yet the anticipated megatsunami of repossessions hasn’t happened. I wonder why.

V10omous
V10omous
29 days ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

Probably because real incomes are at record highs, lending standards are tighter than they were 15 years ago, and viral anecdotes about people rolling $20,000 in negative equity into a 9.99% loan with $2000 payments are not actually typical?

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
29 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

Probably because real incomes are at record highs, lending standards are tighter than they were 15 years ago

If that were true then lenders wouldn’t need to be offering more and more 84 month loans would they?

V10omous
V10omous
29 days ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

Those loans increased in popularity when rates were very low and there was little to no downside in taking them. I’m curious what the breakdown is now.

The things I stated are indisputably true, regardless of loan length though.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
29 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

If you say so. I’ve heard from plenty of others the rent is to damn high.

https://www.realestatewitch.com/rent-to-income-ratio-2022/

Last edited 29 days ago by Cheap Bastard
Toecutter
Toecutter
29 days ago

Lack of inexpensive, long-range EVs is why EV demand is faltering. These oversized/overpriced/unrepairable luxury EVs defeat the purpose of EVs. The point of buying them for the demographic that wants them is to save money vs using a gasoline ICE. It’s as if the auto industry wants the tech to fail. For all of its build quality woes, the fact that Tesla makes the mot desirable EVs on the U.S. market says a lot. Their cars can last upwards of 500,000 miles without major issues if you don’t wreck them, still using the original battery. Because of its inexpensive and relatively good quality offerings, BYD has also become the world’s largest electric car manufacturer.

Value for the money is a very important consideration with an EV, and the mainstream automakers are almost completely ignoring this factor in favor of trying to maximize margins, and this strategy is backfiring, spectacularly, and could bankrupt the industry. And it will be the industry’s own damn fault, so there shouldn’t be any bailouts.

Alexk98
Alexk98
29 days ago
Reply to  Toecutter

This is exactly it, most people I talk to are interested in EVs, whether that be a Tesla or other automaker, but are aware enough of the market to know buying new makes zero sense given how absurd depreciation is, and how quickly future gen EVs will further suppress the value of current cars in just a few years. I think a lot of the currently on sale cars make exceptional used options in the mid 20s at 3 years old and sub 60k miles, but as new, absolutely not.

If GM keeps their promises and debuts or even release a next generation Bolt with a sub-40k starting price and 300+ miles of range, they will sell absurdly well, just like the last ones did. The reality is a lot of EV curious buyers seem to have a 300 mile minimum in their head as a Minimum Viable Car (granted I live in a more rural area) and asking 5-10k more than an equivalent ICE vehicle with sub 290-mile range is a non-starter for so many.

Drive By Commenter
Drive By Commenter
29 days ago
Reply to  Toecutter

Was going to write the same thing. Sales aren’t declining because of lack of demand but because the EV’s on offer are mainly big $50-60k luxo-barges. The Bolt was selling like ice cream in summer because it had usable range and decent interior room for about $30k or less out the door. When someone makes that kind of car again it’ll sell well.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
29 days ago

When someone makes that kind of car again it’ll sell well.

Heeeeere’s China!

Parsko
Parsko
29 days ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

Axe in hand!

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
29 days ago
Reply to  Parsko

How else are they supposed to chop chop prices?

Parsko
Parsko
29 days ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

RFOL!!! Exactly!

Drive By Commenter
Drive By Commenter
29 days ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

I kind of wish since they have some neat EV’s. Recalling how COVID royally messed up everything but especially their auto industry makes me a bit wary of a car 100% MIC. Getting parts from AliExpress would be a whole other level beyond eBay.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
29 days ago

I’m pretty sure if the market opened up Amazon or Ebay would fill in the gap.

Recalling how COVID royally messed up everything

No, overuse of just in time manufacturing royally messed up everything as did critical dependency on obsolete chips made overseas, then canceling those orders thus shuttering the lines that made them.

Last edited 29 days ago by Cheap Bastard
Drew
Drew
29 days ago
Reply to  Toecutter

If Chevy comes out with the Ultium-based Bolt at something like the previous Bolt prices, that’s gonna be huge for exactly these reasons.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
29 days ago
Reply to  Toecutter

It’s as if the auto industry wants the tech to fail.

I’m sure they’d be happy for the tech to succeed as long as it made them truck like profits with no supply chain woes.

Parsko
Parsko
29 days ago
Reply to  Toecutter

Toe, it ain’t the industry’s fault you’re poor.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
29 days ago
Reply to  Parsko

Shooting the messenger I see.

Parsko
Parsko
29 days ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

That’s all that happens these days, it seems. 🙂

Toecutter
Toecutter
29 days ago
Reply to  Parsko

I was poor in the past, but I’m not at the moment. That said, I am keenly aware of the value of the money I worked for, and there is nothing on the new car market that appeals to me.

The closest matches would be the Tesla Model 3 Performance and the Mazda MX5 Miata. The former is too tech-laden, heavy, and unrepairable, while the latter guzzles gasoline and is relatively slow. And for what they are, IMO, both are overpriced and have too many features I don’t need or want.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
29 days ago
Reply to  Toecutter

I think its more they wanted the growth of Tesla and maybe to convert Teslastans.

IMO PHEV is really the way to go, at least for the foreseeable future ESPECIALLY for full sized pickup trucks.

Lewis26
Lewis26
29 days ago

Ford dealers are getting greed and are not willing to discount Mach-E’s as much as they were a month ago.

Ford also reduced the incentives for the 2024’s significantly compared to 2023’s.

They were selling decently when they were priced right, and given good incentives.

BOSdriver
BOSdriver
29 days ago
Reply to  Lewis26

I think that was because they were competing with the big discounts Tesla had until a week or two ago, when you could always find inventory cars at $4-5k+ discounts. Those big discounts are now gone, at least until later in the quarter… When you added in the $7,500, plus more $ off from several states ($3,500 in MA), you could easily buy a Model Y Long Range for ~$35k last month. Even with the big discounts offered by Kia, Hyundai, Ford, etc, they never met the discounted Model Y price. I almost bought a Y, after many months of research and countless test drives – it was not the model I set out to buy but made the most sense for me for the cost, longest battery warranty, best space utilization (it is a small car but more useful than anything in its class), charging network, etc. Aborted once I started doing my taxes and realized that the tax discount didn’t apply to me anymore plus for cost per mile, my current gas car (’21 Sonata N Line) costs about $500 more per year in fuel to operate. Insurance for most electric cars I cross shopped were within $100 of my current cost annually (Model Y was $100 less per year) and some other gas used cars I crossed shopped were several hundred dollars more than any of the EVs.

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