Ford and Tesla got everyone excited yesterday when they announced they’d share a common charging port and charging network starting as soon as possible. There are many plugs for EVs, depending on where you live and what you drive. The lack of a common standard is a huge stumbling block for EV adoption and Tesla, by itself, was really mucking this up for everyone. Ford, of course, only mucks it up more. Let’s embrace the mucking.
It’s not fun to write that Tesla should “win” anything because, first, it’s a corporation. Second, it’s Tesla, and that brings an enormous amount of irrational love and irrational haterism. There is no objectivity in this debate so I’ll state, again, that I think Tesla still mostly builds the best electric cars, even if the company’s leader is often annoying.
So, Tesla should win. To start this Morning Dump out, I’m going to lean into some analysis, and then we’ll talk about Hyundai battery plants and the like.
Tesla Has The Better Charging Setup
The launch of new technology always results in a war of standards. In “The Box: How the Shipping Container Made the World Smaller and the World Economy Bigger,” author Marc Levinson details the many years of attempts to get the world to agree on one damn size for the shipping container. It seems obvious in retrospect, but before containerized shipping there were whole industries of people whose main job was to figure out how to fit goods of different sizes into different ships. It took decades to get it right.
This is what’s happening in electric cars. Various groups, in various countries, trying to solve a problem that hasn’t been solved before. Here’s a list of most of the common chargers, of which there are at least nine. Most of these are technology specific (in the U.S. a lot of the older cars use CHAdeMO and the newer ones are CCS Type 1), though many are also geographical (China has its own standard, for instance), and one is company-specific: Tesla.
It feels backwards to argue that the odd-man-out, annoying fly-in-the-ointment should emerge victorious. Up until yesterday, I’d have argued that CCS should win (and that the Europeans should ditch CCS Type 2 and join our standard), merely on the principle of just making everything easier. I’d still argue that Apple should ditch the annoying Lightning cable for my phone, for instance.
When Tesla announced a sort of half-measure interoperability and open charging standard last year, we mostly balked, concluding:
[W]hile it’s now theoretically possible for other automakers to adopt Tesla’s style of charging connector, the biggest winners in this whole story are likely Tesla owners seeking different charging networks. While Tesla’s connector does hold advantages such as its small footprint, it’s unlikely that other major automakers will abandon CCS for it. While it would be great to eventually see a global charging standard, it looks like we’ll continue to use a mix of connectors for the foreseeable future.
Well, now a major automaker did adopt the standard (or will, at least). And this is why it’s easier to argue that everyone should adopt Tesla’s standard. Tesla was here first and yet, given many attempts to make a better charger, no one really has. CHAdeMO is worse. CCS is worse. CCS Type 2 is no better (Tesla CEO Elon Musk, on a Twitter spaces with Ford CEO Jim Farley yesterday, argued it was bad and “designed by a committee,” which is anathema to someone who is not normally cooperative).
The Tesla connecter is the best and, in the United States at least, the Tesla supercharging network is vastly superior. I’ve never driven to a Tesla Supercharger to find that it is, in fact, in the parking lot of a jail (true story, near Palm Springs). I’ve never driven to a Tesla Supercharger and found it broken or unable to render a charge (about 40% of the time I try to charge an EV with a CCS charger I find it doesn’t work on the first attempt).
This is a chance to let Betamax win, frankly, and rather than try to fight it we should all just accept it (imagine if 40% of the time you tried to put a VHS tape into your player it just didn’t work for no reason). The faster the better. And what of the many charging stations already built? First, adapters exist already to fix this problem. Second, many of the charging stations out there aren’t great and are going to need to be replaced in the next 3-5 years anyway.
Hyundai And LG To Build $4.3 Billion US battery Plant
No automaker has been hurt more by the Inflation Reduction Act–whose full $7,500 tax credit applies only to cars assembled in North America–than Hyundai/Kia/Genesis. The Korean company was close to establishing itself as a major powerhouse in the United States, with the combined sales of the Kia EV6/Hyundai Ioniq 5 overcoming everything but the Tesla Model 3 and Model Y in Q2 2022. In the first quarter of 2023, the Hyundai and Kia EVs had dropped 8% and 36% in sales, respectively.
This will normalize as the market adjusts to tax credits, but until Hyundai and Kia can start building batteries here, they’re at a huge disadvantage.
So that’s exactly what’s happening, with a $4.3 billion battery plant coming to Georgia, according to Reuters:
Hyundai and LGES said construction of the factory in the state of Georgia will begin in the second half of 2023, with battery production starting at the end of 2025 at the earliest.
It will have an annual production capacity of 30 gigawatt-hours (GWh), enough for 300,000 EVs, they said.
That’s a lot of EVs.
Ford Sees China As Its Main Rival
Here’s another fun one from Jim Farley, via Reuters again, about who he sees as the real threat:
“I think we see the Chinese as the main competitor, not GM (GM.N) or Toyota (7203.T),” Farley said at the Morgan Stanley Sustainable Finance Summit. “The Chinese are going to be the powerhouse.”
[…]
To beat Chinese automakers, Farley said Ford needs distinctive branding, which he believes it has, or lower costs. “But how do you beat on them on cost if their scale is five times yours?” Farley said. “The Europeans let (Chinese automakers) in – so now they are selling in high volume in Europe.”
I think the hint-hint here is: Don’t let the Chinese in like the Europeans did.
The No-New-Normal, Many-Different-Normals Continues
I will continue to reiterate that, in this weird non-recession period, there is not going to be a “new normal” for all automakers and instead there will be many different normals.
A new analysis of overall passenger vehicle sales in the United States from research group S&P Global Mobility confirms this:
As the market awaits a clear signal that either growing new-vehicle inventories or consumer affordability issues will emerge as the main determinant of auto sales trends in the immediate term, new U.S. light vehicle demand in May is expected to soldier on uneventfully and maintain its unsteady climb.
S&P Global Mobility projects new light vehicle sales volume in May 2023 to reach 1.31 million units, up 18% year over year, and representing the 10th consecutive month in which volume has improved from the year-prior level. This volume would translate to an estimated sales pace of 14.5 million units (seasonally adjusted annual rate: SAAR), a step down from the month-prior result, but reminiscent of ongoing monthly patterns in this metric.
On the supply side of the equation, supply chain issues have continued the easing that began in the second half of 2022, resulting in consistent increases in retail advertised inventory levels. As we approach the summer months, vehicle listings have plateaued at approximately 2 million units, 67% higher than a year ago, according to S&P Global Mobility’s proprietary analysis of advertised dealer inventory.
The good news for consumers is that 40% of vehicle listings are now below MSRP, which shows that you can get a deal if you can be flexible on what you want and where you buy it.
The Big Question
Should Tesla win? Am I wrong? Is VHS the way?
Photos: Tesla, Ford, Toyota
(This post contains an Amazon book link and we’ll get a commission, maybe, if you buy stuff there).
I see below here that charging by Tesla is better.
So was video by Betamax.
More than anything, I just want there to be 1 standard, at least for North America. Even if the North America moved toward the NACS, there are still different standards around the world. (CHAdeMO in Japan, CB/T in China, and CCS Type 2 in Europe). Also, doesn’t Telsa only use NACS in North America and the other local standards in the markets where they are sold?
Yup they use CCS 2 in Europe
Wireless charging! Didn’t we learn anything from the evolution of cell phone tech? Fuck cables and adapters.
Also, 40% of new cars being listed below MSRP does not mean you can get a deal as prices for new cars long ago departed Deal Land.
Wireless charging is very inefficient. A fair bit of the power is lost, not getting to the battery.
Yes. Very inefficient.
Think we’re concerned now about how the grid will handle massive numbers of EVs? Let’s increase the power requirements another 50% just so people don’t need cables. (And start dumping off lots of waste heat just for the fun of it.)
The EV1 used wireless charging. It had a paddle without conductive connectors. Magne Charge!
“The EV1 used wireless charging”
Yes… and it was inefficient and stupid.
Every time I ask someone with an electric mustang VW or Porsche how they like their car they say that the love it but regret not buying a Tesla because of the public charging systems. So Tesla has a market footprint that they should be taking advantage of, and would be advantageous to the public.
We also really need all the other charging companies to get better. I would hate for Tesla to be the only DCFast charging company out there.
This. The other chargers really need to up their game.
The reason why Tesla system is so smooth is because the payment method is already stored on the server via the app. That saves at least one trip to get authenticated (vs a tap terminal) and can start the handshake etc earlier and more reliably.
I just can’t see charging companies that put card terminals at each charger be able to match.
Autopian. This is the way.
I think that people talking about the technical differences/advantages/disadvantages of CCS1 or CCS2 vs Tesla plug are focusing on completely the wrong point. I believe that this announcement by Ford is about how many supercharger locations exist and the % of uptime of those stations compared to CCS….simple as that.
I think this is a brilliant move by Ford, and don’t be suprised if other automakers follow soon after (not all of them, I don’t see that happening).
I can’t see any of the European brands converting. The NACS connector is smaller, provides the same performance and combines AC and DC into a single plug.
The Tesla charger is better and to be honest, current speed limitations aside, the lightning connector is better too. Its less prone to breaking and easier to clean out when dirty.
Lightening connectors can arc very easily because of exposed connectors. Its a terrible design. It also physically wares faster than USB C. It was better but now is not.
I daily a Tesla and have used CCS as well. The connector packaging on the NACS is superior and is just as capable. The connector lock being in the vehicle vs the handle means they don’t break which I see on L2 chargers around town regularly. The connector is a small part of the problem though. Tesla Superchargers are very reliable while other charger companies are quite a bit worse in terms of reliability but its not the connector that is the main issues for them the charging cabinets themselves are down regularly, no change in connector will fix that.
Agree. The connector matters less than the charger actually working or its ease of use/payment when it is working. All this apps/accounts/memberships crap is terrible and would still be terrible with NACS.
Having used both Tesla and “others”, absolutely Tesla should become the standard in North America.
Tesla charging stations work because they are maintained and because they only connect to one brand of car, via one payment method. That’s not really a fault of CCS, but a fault of a bunch of startups deciding that they could roll out chargers and not planning any significant maintenance.
Tie the federal funds to proper maintenance instead of rollout and I think you’d see this change. Otherwise, no matter what standard wins, you’ll see companies making the (probably more profitable) decision to prioritize installations over maintenance. It won’t matter what cables are used.
And, to be clear, I do not care which standard wins. I just want there to be a standard and I want to see companies maintain their charging stations. I am inclined to prefer CCS because it is already Europe’s standard and because Tesla has apparently declined to add payment hardware to their stations for federal funding.
The best thing for wider adoption is going to be the ability to drive up to any station and pay without worrying about whether you have the right app and the right account (or the right car) to refuel.
I do think the CCS packaging is bulkier than necessary and can see why the more streamlined connector might be better in a lot of ways.
The CCS chargers are routinely down and just not working, that is not a fault of the cars. Tesla superchargers are less complex because they lack the screen and payment features built into them which provides them a big benefit. Plug and charge is an ISO standard that many automakers are just not implementing in their cars which makes charging for the end user more difficult. This also means that without that then you have to use an app or a payment system on the unit.
CCS in Europe is completely different than in the US so saying we should use that because Europe does is not a good basis. They do not use the J1772 plug, they use IEC 62196 Type 2 commonly referred to as mennekes. So no matter what a different port will need to be used in the US and Canada.
I’d be onboard with changing to the European plug. I’m not onboard with the vehicle as the payment method. Borrowed cars, rentals, etc. People not decoupling their card from their car when they sell it.
Regardless of standard, I want to see one standard adopted and pay-at-the-pump functionality put in place. I’ve got no dog in this fight, except that I want a standard that I can expect wherever I need to fast charge.
The tesla connector combines AC and DC into one plug, it’s a better design for the US but in the Europe they have 3 phase power while we do not generally have that available.
They need to have a money feed-thru device like a vending machine. Not everyone has a smart phone or uses debit/credit cards. I use cash, but because there is no way to pay in cash, these public charge stations are functionally useless to me.
Bitcoin. Clearly we need Bitcoin.
Yeah no.
The solution for folks like you are prepaid cards. Like cash, they de-risk you from having your identity stolen, and if you use cash for strict budgeting purposes, they provide the same benefits, and best of all, they let you access all the modern goods and services of the modern world that are slowly becoming more out of reach for folks without plastic in their wallets.
Honestly I’d prefer coin operation. I’ve never had a mechanical coin machine fail me, had plenty of the bill machines fail me.
Clearly you have not spent any time in an arcade.
I spent most of my adolescent years in arcades.
So the biggest complaint is that CSS chargers are not as well maintained than Teslas? This is a brand problem, not a standards problem. If Tesla’s charging standard becomes the official one, then other charging station brands will start using Teslas cables and still have the issue of poor maintenance.
CSS itself isn’t the issue. It’s actually superior to Tesla’s because it can support 350kW. More than Tesla’s 250kW. And the rest of the world is adopting CSS.
This is a bad move by Ford
As a Tesla owner (and overall EV nerd), I agree that CCS is superior if you are looking at max voltage and amperage. Which is critical for road trips. Tesla should switch to CCS.
Tesla can offer up to nearly a megawatt, the current chargers only go up to 250kw but they are starting to deploy v4 chargers in Europe already that are 615kw.
Here’s the world’s first Tesla V4 Supercharger charging a VW ID Buzz – The Verge
Of note, V3 superchargers have the same sticker going to 1000V @ 425A, but yet are limited to ~half that, so the 615 kW mentioned in that article is not real.
Because Tesla’s max is 250kw so they don’t need to run higher currently.
Ford EVs will now have access to a reliable, well-established charging network. How is this a bad thing???
If third party chargers using Tesla ports become unreliable, you can at least use the official Tesla network.
Because they are removing the CCS port in favor if Tesla’s port. The US was on trajectory to switch to CSS and it was expected that eventually Tesla would switch as well. This is a step in the wrong direction. CSS is the superior standard.
It is a great move for Ford, even if it is not a good move for EV standardization.
Ford has not actually announced whether they will remove the CCS port from future cars. They may do so, but I could see them keeping it around to maximize their charging station footprint. (And I guess even if they do remove CCS, there are CCS/Tesla adapters.)
CCS is oversized, compromised, expensive, clunky garbage compared to NACS.
As long as NACS becomes a royalty-free standard open to everyone (which apparently is what Tesla/Musk wants), then it absolutely 100% is the correct move.
Teslas can suppert up to nearly a megawatt, right now they have Version 3 chargers that support up to 250kw with version 4 chargers that are 615kw being rolled out. Right now they operate at 250kw because that is what the cars are setup for. The rest of the world is not adopting CCS. In the EU they use CCS1 and we use CCS2. They do not use the J1772 plug, they use mennekes. Its a completely different connector.
Tesla’s connector can support up to a megawatt. Tesla’s newest chargers go well beyond 350kW.
Much like the video format wars, we should probably pay attention to which charging standard the porn industry chooses.
The Tesla Supercharger looks sort of like a giant phallus, so that would be the one.
The Beta/VHS analogy comes out every time there are competing formats of anything, and it was before my time, so I don’t know the details. More recently, however, there was the competition between HDDVD and BluRay. I have a friend who passionately supported the HDDVD standard and talked my ear off when it first came out about how it’s vastly superior to BluRay. And there was that brief time when you could buy both. I am usually an electronics early adopter, but I held out on buying either player until there was a clear winner. I didn’t care who won — I just didn’t want to be stuck with an obsolete piece of tech and a stack of obsolete media.
I feel the same way with electric car chargers. My power company is tripping over itself trying to talk me into installing a charger in my home garage, but with competing standards, would I be locking myself in to one or the other? Could I end up with an obsolete charger on my wall if I bet on the wrong horse and one of the standards gets phased out? Would I be like Ron Howard’s daughter in that episode of Black Mirror trying to find the correct electric car adapter in the rain if I were to attempt to use a public charger at some point in the future?
This is all to say that I don’t care what standard “wins” as long as one standard wins. Apparently VHS was an inferior format to BetaMax, but it worked out fine for when my dad wanted to film my little league games or record the finale of MASH. If you ask my buddy, BluRay was an inferior format to HDDVD, but my movies play in sharp high definition with crisp audio, so for me it’s fine. I appreciate the fact that I don’t have to find a new charger every time I buy a new phone thanks to the USB standard. I hope that electric cars eventually reach a state of stasis by the time I want to buy one.
That was such an interesting format war. HDDVDs could be manufactured on existing DVD factory lines, and played-back using existing DVD red lasers, so there was a built-in cost savings and ease-of-transition assumed. Sony had a terrible record of failure in trying to foist their various proprietary media onto the public for decades, so it’s surprising that they won this war. Blu-Ray’s inherently higher storage capacity may have sealed the deal in their favor.
Bluray won because Sony included it in the PS3, basically end of story.
Something lots of people were going to buy anyways, vs a stand-alone HD-DVD player, would always make it a tough sell.
Why is your power company tripping over to install a charger at your home? Besides getting you to pay more electricity, I can’t see a big incentive for them. Just pay a sparky a few hundred bucks to install a NEMA 14-50 plug at your garage, you are good for ~9kW of AC charging compatible with any charger that uses 220V. If standard ever change, pull the charger out like an old dryer and just plug in a new one.
Tesla mobile charger I think is currently one of the cheapest name brand chargers that uses NEMA 14-50 ($250 last I looked). Any higher speed AC charging you need a Model S and X. When you are exploring the upper limits of AC charging, check the manuals (both car and charger) first, there are a fine prints. Returns start diminishing once you push past 50Amp (40 actual).
Maybe the Tesla charger is the best, but it still feels like USB-A and not even the micro stuff, that Ugly TYPE-B stuff that printers use. I feel like that standard (and all current standards) would be stored in a box under a bed in 10 years if they were small enough.
How is the smaller, more-versatile connector more like USB-A?
The new standard is USB-C. And it’s probably superior to lightning. I think it’s (lightning) electrically similar to USB -C, but more likely to be shorted out.
So why is the Autopian not saying word one about the story in Handelsblatt revealing yet more unethical, immoral, and outright illegal behavior by Tesla?
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/05/massive-trove-of-tesla-files-contains-thousands-of-safety-complaints/
And for those of us who read German. Like David. And myself.
https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/industrie/elektromobilitaet-mein-autopilot-hat-mich-fast-umgebracht-tesla-files-naehren-zweifel-an-elon-musks-versprechen/29166564.html
Over 23,000 files, authenticated and verified, showing Tesla deliberately and willfully ignoring extreme safety problems left, right, and center. More than 2,400 reports of unintended acceleration, more than three times as many FSD accidents as they’ve reported to NHTSA, 1,500+ braking complaints, and a formalized policy that absolutely no reports are to have any written records even discussing reports (which could be subpoenaed and must be turned over to NHTSA on request.) All deliberately concealed from regulators. Again.
Instead we get “Tesla deserves to…” with outright false information. Tesla’s charging system is not better, period. It’s just more widespread.
CCS is nothing but a connector definition with limits imposed by physics; Charge America is deploying 360kW+ CCS, EA is all minimum 250kW now, EVgo is deploying 350kW, even ChargePoint has 300kW+ stations. Tesla’s maximum? 250kW.
And guess what? CCS2 does more power to the port than Tesla’s proprietary crap too. Which is why all the 400V/800V architecture cars are using CCS2. Volts is the speed, amps is how much, and CCS2 is superior on both. Or is someone going to claim the Taycan doesn’t use CCS2 and an 800VDC charge at 270kW+?
Come on. Do better.
CCS might be technically superior, but the damn things seem to be broken all the time. EVgo is an absolute joke – their chargers never seem to work. Electrify America chargers were reliable when new, but those are starting to break. Tesla’s chargers may not be the best, but at least they work.
I doubt CCS chargers are inherently less reliable than Tesla chargers, but it appears Tesla actually cares about maintaining their chargers instead of just building new ones and letting them rot.
But going to Tesla’s standard doesn’t fix that issue. You’ll just see EVGo or whoever roll out stations with the new standard that still don’t get maintained. Easiest solution, in my opinion, is to change the focus of any subsidies from expansion to maintenance. Make it less profitable to build out if your stations don’t work.
For whatever reason, Tesla seems to have figured things out with their charging network in terms of maintenance and ease of use. To me, the easiest solution is to give subsidies to Tesla instead of the other charging networks. Why not reward the company that has shown it can do things right?
Subsidies to EVgo and other lousy charging companies are counterproductive and should be stopped (if they still receive them?). The last thing we need is for EV chargers to get a reputation for unreliability. A lot of consumers are already skeptical of EVs, so why give them additional evidence that the technology is not ready for mass adoption?
EA is not all minimum 250kw, they have plenty of 150kw everywhere. Tesla V4 chargers can operate up to 615kw. CCS is not technically superior in any way.
I live in the Northwest. There are a lot of EA locations that have no 350kW chargers. At most they are 50:50 350 vs 150kW. A lot of them still have one 50kW chademo too. Overall they are hot garbage. I primarily charge at work and/or home but once a month or so I take a long trip and use EA. Less than 10% of the time does it just work when I plug it in. Usually multiple disconnect, wait for it to recognize that is available again, then reconnect attempts (3-5 minutes each) before it will even start to charge (my record is 5 connection events). Or it will charge for a minute or two then error out and need to be restarted. The advertising about fast charging and being so convenient that you don’t even notice are bullpucky. “Plug it in then go grab a bite…” etc. That only pans out if it actually works when you plug it in. That’s not accounting for the percentage of whole stations or individual chargers that are routinely off line.
I have an EV6 that has the 800V architecture and is heavily advertised as 18 mins for 10-80% charging. Well aware that marketing is marketing but the vast majority of people will never see anywhere near that. The highest charging rate I’ve seen on a 350kW is mid 230’s and that only lasted a few minutes mid charge. Mostly in the 100’s or double digits. If there were DCFC alternatives (and I didn’t get gifted free credits when I bought the car) I can’t imagine choosing to use EA chargers.
I would be thrilled if Tesla opened their network. I would pay an uncomfortable amount of money for any adapter required and happily pay whatever the rate was. Routinely spend 45 minutes to an hour charging now and it blows.
EA appears to have lots of 0kw chargers in inconvenient locations.
I only read the English story. Where did it say Tesla ignored the complaints?
I think that’s the assumption because of Tesla’s behavior. They did not put anything in writing and generally attempt to dismiss complaints. Phantom braking is real and is a real problem for many. Is it for most? Probably not but every Tesla owner will experience it given enough times. I had major issues in Nevada when there were heat mirages. How big and widespread of a problem is it? From the leak compared to the number of cars is does not seem to be a big deal but I bet people do not report it . Other makes have been reported as having similar problems. I think there should be an investigation, if they find no real issue that’s fine. If they do find problems then all it does is make Tesla fix the problems, I don’t see a downside.
To frame Phatom Braking its slowing the car down and not stopping the car. It can be pretty rapid which creates a dangerous situation.
Tesla’s connector can handle a megawatt. Tesla’s newer (v4) chargers go well beyond 350kW.
Say it a few more times, Stan.
Resort to name-calling a few more times, wov. (Then you will have repeatedly demonstrated the cognitive maturity of a six-year-old.)
“Works consistently” and “widespread” are pretty good measures of “better” for a charging network. I don’t care how many theoretical kW a station is when the actual number when I plug my car in is 0.
Charger network is the key and I see Superchargers everywhere, even the rural/semirural South where I often travel for work. I see them at hotels, shopping malls, etc… Almost exclusively Tesla. I think all new car dealers in the country need to install a half dozen or so EV chargers. I have driven through many rural regions where gas stations are far between but every medium size town has a domestic or Toyota dealership. Put in a freestanding lounge with restrooms and a few vending machines for use while I charge my EV. If you have to, lock it and give me the code when I plug in.
Counterpoint: Tesla currently only supports up to 250 kW while CCS supports up to 350 kW. Neither actually hits those peaks, but CCS is still higher and the time to charge is still (one of) the biggest problems with EV’s for most people.
I will give it to Tesla that they do a much better job keeping their charging points actually working, which is probably the only main advantage of the Supercharger network.
edit: Nevermind, it looks like Tesla claims the V4 should be able to support 350 kW (615 kW labeled on the chargers) eventually. Once that happens, all aboard V4 Supercharger!
Seems like people are hating CCS charging companies, and not the standard itself. This is dumb. If the Tesla standard becomes the norm, 3rd party charging companies will still be bad, but now with Tesla cables.
Dumb choice by Ford
Not true V4 superchargers support up to 615kw but only operate at 250kw because that’s what their cars do. Very few cars support 350kw currently and very few that support it achieve that charging rate.
You’re spouting this misinformation all over the place here. You don’t seem to understand the need to also derate the power, same with the article you keep linking to. Tesla themselves have said that V4 is only going to support 350 kW.
You don’t seem to understand that they derate because their cars only go to 250kw. The cars rated at 350kw almost never charge that fast or anywhere near that.
I don’t supercharge often but I hit 241kW a month or so ago.
I don’t supercharge often, but when I do, it’s electrifying.
I don’t think it’s irrational to avoid companies that actively conflict with my values but OK.
I agree. That being said I think the irrationality when it comes to which companies one avoids is that they hold companies in the same field to different standards based upon whether the political “views” of one company fall in line with the individual’s views when they’re making the comparison.
I still have a Beta VCR, and a tape rewinder. Great for watching the first season of The Simpsons, complete with original 80’s commercials.
Huh? Betamax makes commercial trucks I think, but VHS? Wasn’t that an old British sports car company? I don’t get it.
Betamax was a Lancia shooting brake.
Ultimately, it’s still on Tesla who could have opened their charging standard and network years ago. They didn’t, so we ended up with more standards because of it.
Ultimately, it will end up being regulated/standardized in some way.
Imagine owing an ICE vehicle that only accepts fuel nozzles at Texaco gas stations.
As Mr. Incredible said: “ELECTRONS ARE ELECTRONS!”.
Europe mandated EVs must use CCS/CCS2 (which is an IEC standard) a while ago, to solve exactly that problem.
Why wouldn’t Ford just include a adapter to use the Tesla chargers instead? So now Fords will need an adapter to use non-Tesla chargers. Ford will have Tesla port for US and CCS for Europe/elsewhere. Is everyone idiots. We have learned nothing in 40 yrs since Betamax vs VHS
Tesla chargers are easier to use and more readily available than CCS chargers. If Ford has to pick one, they may as well pick the better one. I would gladly trade my Livewire’s CCS port for a Tesla port if it were an option.
I still think it would be easiest to include both ports. It may be more expensive, but if you are paying $50,000+ for an EV, what is an extra $500 to make it possible to charge at all stations? Adapters are a lousy solution since they are easy to lose.
CCS in Europe is not the same CCS in the US.
I think it’s at least in part because of how the locking/latching works. NACS/Tesla puts it on the car, and CCS puts it on the cable. If you’ve got a CCS charger feeding a NACs port with an adapter, great, both sides are locked in. If you have a NACS charger feeding a CCS port via an adapter, the charger needs to be able to lock both sides in. That’s a control chip and multiple moving parts to cram into the adapter.
The NACS port can also accept either L1/L2 or DCFC, so it’s easy enough to connect CCS or J1772 to it with the same passive adapter. But it means a NACS cable connecting to a CCS needs to deal with connecting the right type of charge to the right pins, or at least not connecting the wrong type to the wrong pins.
Having a charging point in a jail parking lot seems fine? Like, it’s already government owned land, there’s gonna be a fait amount of lawyers visiting clients and as a white collar job there’s probably a higher-than-average rate of EV adoption, and it’s not like it’s gonna be super dangerous there – you got cops walking in and out all the time and it’s heavily surveilled.
This is less of a danger thing, then a reality that in the EV charging-space landgrab it was Tesla who struck first and secured some of the choicest locales.
There are CCS chargers generally in the same location as Tesla chargers or just a block away in many cases. Electrify America hooked up with WalMart which is fine. We EVGo street side where I live.
Yes. Indeed there is just no more space for a company to install a charger system. /s
That’s some black pill you swallowed there.
Something must have been deleted from the article before publishing. I do not see your assessment of Fairley’s personality in the Ford note. And is the Hyundai CEO annoying? Charming? How can we possibly interpret the knews about the new plant without some character study?
loooooool
VHS? I am still on RCAs CED videodisk format from the early 80s.
I managed to evolve to LaserDisc and never looked back.