Home » Here’s Why Canada’s Car Market Could Get Weirder Than You’ve Ever Imagined

Here’s Why Canada’s Car Market Could Get Weirder Than You’ve Ever Imagined

Canada Ev Mandate Topshot
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Mazda has announced that all of its battery-electric vehicles launched in North America from 2025 on will adopt Tesla’s charging interface, officially dubbed the North American Charging Standard (NACS). This is a noteworthy announcement because Mazda doesn’t currently sell any BEVs in the U.S., but the brand does look past the northern border where things are different. The Mazda MX-30 that was discontinued in America is still alive in Canada, and it could be a sign of greater weirdness that may come in the Great White North’s car market.

See, Canada has enacted an EV mandate. On the face of it, that isn’t groundbreaking. After all, California has moved to ban the sale of new combustion-powered cars by 2035, so some EV mandates are coming to America. However, Canada’s EV mandate operates at a federal level, which is very different from the piecemeal state-by-state approach the California Air Resources Board is taking. By 2035, all new vehicles sold in Canada will have to be either 100 percent free of tailpipe emissions or be plug-in hybrids with an all-electric range of at least 80 km (50 miles). That’s an ambitious target for a country with the population of California. Oh, and this isn’t a simple deadline – it’s an escalating program, mandating a 20 percent zero emission vehicle sales mix in 2026 and growing from there. The penalties for not meeting this? Well, they have the same teeth that penalized Volkswagen for Dieselgate. Ouch.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

Now, in the interim, there is some flexibility as to how manufacturers meet these escalating EV targets. For 2024 and 2025, manufacturers can bank credits in advance to make model years 2026 and 2027 less painful. Likewise, manufacturers can earn one credit for every $20,000 spent on 150 kW or greater DC fast charging infrastructure that “must be opened between January 1, 2024, and December 31, 2027.” Those credits go away after 2030, but they may provide short-term easing. In addition, before 2035, credits can be traded between manufacturers, so a company with many combustion-powered cars like Toyota can buy credits from a company that sells a lot of EVs, like Tesla. However, credits banked can only be spent or traded within five years of earning them, and this banked credit system will go away in 2035.

Mazda Mx 30

While there’s still plenty of machinations to play out regarding how manufacturers respond to this mandate, there are a few things to look out for. Firstly, compliance EVs are possible in the short term, partly due to bank credits and partly as a result of provincial mandates in British Columbia and Quebec. We’re already seeing the Mazda MX-30 being kept on sale, but the list of automakers without advanced EV plans in North America is short enough that widespread compliance car sales shouldn’t be a set expectation.

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Tesla Model Y

A more realistic outcome? A whole bunch of VINs that start with L  – as in, cars from China. See, China is currently crushing it when it comes to EV pricing, and Canada’s federal EV rebate is agnostic of vehicle origin, so it isn’t surprising that Canadians can already buy Chinese-made EVs. Last year, Tesla started selling Shanghai-built Model 3 and Model Y EVs in Canada, since it was attractive from a business perspective to do so. Don’t be surprised if more manufacturers start doing the same. At Kia’s 2023 EV day, it confirmed the compact EV5 electric crossover would come to North America, but Autoblog reports it won’t be sold in the United States. It’s not terribly hard to read between the lines here.

Don’t look for Chinese brands to arrive on the Canadian scene immediately – but don’t be surprised if they eventually start popping up. Brands like BYD and MG are already making inroads in Mexico, so Canada may be a logical expansion. It’s also possible that Chinese OEMs will set up Mexican manufacturing bases to get in on America’s sweet, sweet tax rebates, so expect Chinese EV brands to eventually make inroads in the USA. After all, Canada and the U.S. have similar vehicle standards, and it doesn’t make a ton of sense to homologate a vehicle purely for a California-sized market when all of the United States can be reached.

Kia Ev5

Alright, so more Chinese-built EVs are likely for Canada. What else? Well, here’s something weird: The Canadian ZEV mandate runs on model years rather than actual calendar years. Objectively, one of the funniest possibilities is the potential for an extra-long 2025 model year to cushion the blow of the mandate’s introduction, or an extra-long 2034 model year on some specialty vehicles like high-end combustion-powered sports cars. A less probable but equally funny outcome would be a massive oh shit moment of EV affordability leading to Canada adopting ECE vehicle standards, opening the floodgates for European imports. Canada already permits the use of UN ECE-spec headlights at a federal level, as per CMVSS 108, along with several other ECE vehicle standards, so total harmonization isn’t out of the question, even if chances are slim.

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A more likely outcome? The used car market could get very weird indeed. It’s not uncommon to see recent Canadian-market vehicles for sale in America, and that’s because the Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standards and the U.S.’s Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards are so alike. To import a vehicle from Canada to America, you typically have to clear two hurdles. One is emissions compliance. According to the EPA:

A Canadian vehicle is identical to a United States certified version if one of the following is true:

  • The Canadian vehicle has an emission label stating it is certified to United States EPA federal emission standards.

  • The vehicle manufacturer’s United States representative has provided a letter of compliance that states the vehicle complies with all United States EPA regulations. Generally, EPA only accepts compliance information from the manufacturer’s United States or Canadian representative.

My BMW 325i has a sticker of EPA compliance on it, as does my Porsche Boxster, as did my Infiniti G35, as does my parents’ Hyundai Sonata. It’s just a standard thing to see in most Canadian vehicles, so it’s not surprising that this is generally the easier bit.

The second obstacle is clearance with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Of course, since many Canadian vehicles are built to conform with U.S. standards, this process is relatively easy. Per NHTSA:

To be imported free of restriction, a motor vehicle less than 25 years old must be originally manufactured to comply with all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards (FMVSS) and bear a label certifying such compliance that is permanently affixed by the vehicle’s original manufacturer. A motor vehicle that bears a label certifying compliance with all applicable Canadian motor vehicle safety standards (CMVSS), but not with the FMVSS, can still be imported as a conforming motor vehicle under Box 2B on the HS-7 Declaration form to be presented to U.S. Customs and Border Protection (Customs) at the time of entry if the following requirements are met:
• The vehicle is being imported for personal use and not for resale;
• The vehicle is not a salvage vehicle, a repaired salvage vehicle, or a
reconstructed vehicle;
• The importer obtains a letter from the vehicle’s original manufacturer, on the
manufacturer’s letterhead (and not that of a franchised dealer), identifying the vehicle by
vehicle identification number (VIN) and stating that the vehicle conforms to all
applicable FMVSS except for the labeling requirements of Standards Nos. 101 Controls
and Displays and 110 Tire Selection and Rims or 120 Tire Selection and Rims for Motor
Vehicles other than Passenger Cars, and/or the specifications of Standard No. 108
Lamps, Reflective Devices, and Associated Equipment, relating to daytime running
lamps.

Unsurprisingly, this system works both ways, with most U.S.-market vehicles made within the past 15 years being eligible for Canadian import through the Registrar of Imported Vehicles, so long as requirements like metric gauge cluster labeling, French safety labels, and daytime running lights are met. In the age of widespread digital instrument clusters that flip from imperial to metric and LED daytime running lights as styling statements, the list of necessary modifications to most models is quite small, and used U.S.-market vehicles could be critical to meeting overall consumer demand.

Honda Pilot

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Let’s take the 2030 mandate as an example, where 60 percent of each manufacturer’s mix must consist of EVs and plug-in hybrids. If a manufacturer only has enough combined credits and sales to mark the equivalent of 30,000 EVs in Canada, it will only be permitted to sell 20,000 combustion-powered cars, which could result in an exceptionally bad year for some brands. Obviously, people still need cars, and there’s currently nothing explicitly stating that used, imported combustion-powered vehicles from America can’t come into Canada in 2030. Don’t be surprised if, in a few years, your old daily driver ends up moving to Canada.

While the results of Canada’s federal EV mandate are yet to be seen, it promises to throw an interesting curveball into the carmaking mix. Realistically, it’s only permanent for as long as administration supports it, but automakers tend to plan for the long-term, so don’t be massively surprised if Canada’s car market looks slightly different from America’s through the next 11 years and beyond.

(Photo credits: Mazda, Tesla, Kia, Honda)

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Thomas Metcalf
Thomas Metcalf
4 months ago

So, I guess to replace my 2019 WRX, I should wait until about 2029 and hope that a) they are still available and b) Subaru has enough credits to sell me a gas powered one with 3 pedals.

Cal67
Cal67
4 months ago

There is already a VinFast dealer down the road from where I work, so I am sure with that head start on the Chinese they will dominate them in the Canadian EV market.

Morgan van Humbeck
Morgan van Humbeck
4 months ago

I’ve never in my life heard of a car inputted to Canada getting converted to metric or French. That might be on the books, but it seems like it’s not enforced

B3n
B3n
4 months ago

I have a feeling these mandates will be pushed back or made less strict as the deadlines get closer and closer.
Or maybe only restricted to certain densely populated urban areas.
If I look at Canada’s map, I get range anxiety in a gas car in some areas.
I don’t think 100% EVs will be ever realistic in sparsely populated rural areas, unless there is a fundamental breakthrough in battery chemistry.

Salaryman
Salaryman
4 months ago
Reply to  B3n

Hence the ability to have Plug-in Hybrids with minimum 80km range

John Neilsen
John Neilsen
4 months ago

The goverment mandate can not make the consumer spend money on a EV they don’t want. The cost of used cars will not be going down in the near future as people prefer to keep their older gas powered car instead of going into debt to buy something that is only viable for 9 months of the year.

Stealthwang
Stealthwang
4 months ago
Reply to  John Neilsen

how did norway end up with such high ev ownership? gov action was indisputably a big part of it

67 Oldsmobile
67 Oldsmobile
4 months ago
Reply to  Stealthwang

Generous tax rebates,cheap electricity and investment in charging stations. Also,from what I remember they didn’t really sell many EVs before the model S came around,that was sort of the first properly usable EV here.

Matti Sillanpää
Matti Sillanpää
4 months ago
Reply to  Stealthwang

They are richest nation on earth per capita. And they really go balls deep in the infrastructure. I mean they build 10km long tunnels through mountains in most sparsely populated areas in north and otherside is like few hundred people hamlets.

Also winters are super mild. I visit there several times per year for skiing and in Finnish side it’s often like -30C and 50km away in Lyngen there’s -5C. Non freezing ocean makes wonders.

Stealthwang
Stealthwang
4 months ago

GDP per capita in Norway is 4th behind Luxembourg, Singapore and Ireland. Wealth alone isn’t the factor in EV adoption or else those other nations would be in the news.It’s the combination of wealth and government action.

Your point about the ocean moderating the climate of large parts of the country is fair, but also applies to Canada. The major population centers of Canada are also near the coast and have more moderate temperatures than the inland provinces. Average winter temperatures in Oslo & Toronto are within 5 degree C of each other.

Last edited 4 months ago by Stealthwang
Matti Sillanpää
Matti Sillanpää
4 months ago
Reply to  Stealthwang

I must say that I didn’t really consider Canada in my post, just the Norway part. It kinda bums me out when Norway is used as extreme example of cold EV usage, as it’s rather mild one. Well on the other hand brits make a fuss about their “winter” altough it’s just a bit of rain :D.

James Carson
James Carson
4 months ago
Reply to  Stealthwang

Maybe consult a map before making that assertion. Vancouver is the only major canadian city less than 750 km from the ocean. All of the other major cities are 750 up to 1800 km distant.

Stealthwang
Stealthwang
4 months ago
Reply to  James Carson

There are coasts other than oceans. The Great Lakes are more than big enough to effect climate and weather patterns.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/254848324_ON_THE_COASTAL_POPULATIONS_OF_CANADA_AND_THE_WORLD

“Canadian census results from 1986, 1991, 1996 and 2000 are analysed to investigate spatial and temporal trends in the population living within 5, 10, 15 and 20 km of the Atlantic, Arctic, Pacific and Great Lakes coasts. In 2001, 11.5 million people (38.3% of the Canadian population) lived within 20 km of a coast, in a populated area 2.6% of Canada’s total area.”

The paper goes on to say that by 2015 they expect this percentage to have risen over 2 more percent.

This is from 2005 granted. If you have a more recent source go ahead an post it.

Last edited 4 months ago by Stealthwang
James Carson
James Carson
4 months ago
Reply to  Stealthwang

Oh sure, sure.

Stealthwang
Stealthwang
4 months ago
Reply to  James Carson

Ah when faced with facts you just cower. Nice look.

bmw325_num99
bmw325_num99
4 months ago
Reply to  John Neilsen

I bet there are things on cars you have bought that you dont want/need/care about that you paid for. Just some possible examples: mufflers, catalytic converters, daytime running lights, seat belt warning buzzers/lights, etc. I think the fact that you bought the cars anyway is an example of, yes indeed, Govts can mandate what people buy.

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
4 months ago

I don’t know what the Canadian market share is but Mazdas are freakin’ everywhere up here. Even with the reputation for corrosion. This must be an important market for them (and Canadians generally prefer smaller vehicles too) so It makes a ton of sense for them to make sure they have a compliant lineup on offer.

Dogisbadob
Dogisbadob
4 months ago

How popular is rustproofing up there? I’ve heard of Krown

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
4 months ago
Reply to  Dogisbadob

Most average buyers don’t know. They assume the factory has done it’s best. Especially since there is a mandated perforation warranty. Also, from what I have seen dealers up here don’t push as much upsell stuff as I have heard goes on in the US. I’ve had to ask for accessories to be added to my quotes. I guess there just aren’t the same margins.

Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
4 months ago

Interesting, my experience in the GTA is that every other car is a Kia, Hyundai, or Genesis.

Bracq P
Bracq P
4 months ago
Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
4 months ago

What government sycophants in power do today can be undone by the government sycophants of tomorrow. Canada is a pretty insignificant car market and may be abandoned as opposed to marketed to if government regulations become to expensive to meet.

Chronometric
Chronometric
4 months ago

Canada, land of the cold, encourages EV adoption.
Maybe they are factoring in global warming.

Last edited 4 months ago by Chronometric
Andy Individual
Andy Individual
4 months ago
Reply to  Chronometric

The difference is that when it gets cold up here we know what to do about it.

Stealthwang
Stealthwang
4 months ago
Reply to  Chronometric

what’s the ev rate in norway again?

67 Oldsmobile
67 Oldsmobile
4 months ago
Reply to  Stealthwang

I believe it’s about 80 percent of the new car sales, but only around 20 percent of the total number of cars on the road.

TOSSABL
TOSSABL
4 months ago
Reply to  Stealthwang

Don’t compare an apple sitting on acres of cold concrete to an apple on a table floating in a pool of water which is deep enough & warm enough to mitigate conditions at the apple 😉

Stealthwang
Stealthwang
4 months ago
Reply to  TOSSABL

~40% of Canadians live within 20km of the coastline of a major body of water.

Average winter temperatures in Oslo and Toronto are within 5 degrees C of each other.

Last edited 4 months ago by Stealthwang
TOSSABL
TOSSABL
4 months ago
Reply to  Stealthwang

Less-than-informed American here whose view of Canada was skewed by reading Farley Mowat’s description of his boyhood in Saskatchewan, vividly matching my memories of Iowa & Nebraska.
I appreciate the correction

D-dub
D-dub
4 months ago

Chinese OEMs will set up Mexican manufacturing bases to get in on America’s sweet, sweet tax rebates

Don’t the cars have to be assembled in the US to get the tax credits? I think NAFTA gets them in the door through Mexico but it doesn’t get them tax credits.

Ranwhenparked
Ranwhenparked
4 months ago
Reply to  D-dub

If nothing else, it at least gets them out of the ca 17% tariff on Chinese cars in general

D-dub
D-dub
4 months ago
Reply to  Ranwhenparked

That’s what I meant by getting them in the door – it gets them around tariffs via NAFTA. But Mexican-assembled electric cars won’t qualify for the new tax credits.

Last edited 4 months ago by D-dub
My Skoda is the Most Superb
My Skoda is the Most Superb
4 months ago
Reply to  D-dub

EVs can be eligible for tax credits/POS rebates here in the US as long as they are built in North America, including Mexico, as long as the other requirements are met of course. The Blazer EV and Mach-E are both built in Mexico and were at one point eligible for the credits here in the US and I’m sure they will be re-eligible soon again.

It’s also listed HERE on fueleconomy.gov’s website.

3WiperB
3WiperB
4 months ago

Those are some aggressive targets. Giving credits for charging infrastructure seems like a good idea to speed adoption, but it seems like if they really want that to happen, the dollars per credit should be more like $5,000 instead of $20,000. If the charging infrastructure is there, that helps adoption. And once you move past the people that can charge at home, you have to have the charging infrastructure.

I like that they are at least including PHEV’s on equal footing. They probably make more sense in Canada winters.

Overall some areas of Canada seem like they won’t be the best choice for EV adoption, but maybe eventually companies will consider options for heating with a source other than electricity.

I often wonder if using diesel or kerosene as an optional source for just the heat in an EV would be much more efficient and increase winter range. I know it’s more emissions, but it would sure help winter range issues.

Last edited 4 months ago by 3WiperB
Citrus
Citrus
4 months ago
Reply to  3WiperB

Diesel would be a pretty bad source of heating since it turns into goop when it gets cold enough.

3WiperB
3WiperB
4 months ago
Reply to  Citrus

You just use a winter blend to get a lower gel point, but that would still need to stay above -15 F

A diesel heater can put out about 130,000.BTU per gallon vs. 3400 BTU per KW for resistance heat. The heat pumps, like Tesla uses, gets more like 10,000 BTU per KW. A diesel heater might cost a bit more to operate than a heat pump (it’s probably similar in cost to resistive heat), but if it would let the car run another 40-50 miles on a charge it might be worth it.

Citrus
Citrus
4 months ago
Reply to  3WiperB

Given that the weekend hit -40C, that is not an option.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
4 months ago
Reply to  Citrus

Given that the weekend hit -40C, that is not an option.”

You would think diesel can’t be used in those situations, but you’d be wrong. The use of winter-blend diesel and in-tank fuel heaters eliminates that issue.

Citrus
Citrus
4 months ago

But he’s talking about an auxiliary heater. It’s really not a remotely practical solution since you do need all that electric heat to actually make it work.

Bucko
Bucko
4 months ago
Reply to  3WiperB

We run #1 diesel for heat where I live partially because propane is no longer gaseous below -40F. I also have 4 diesel vehicles in my personal fleet. In the winter, this is straight #1 diesel. I’ve not have any gelling problems even at -55F. #1 diesel gels at -70F

In extreme cold, my diesels run better than my gasoline powered cars.

Turkina
Turkina
4 months ago
Reply to  Bucko

Propane? That sounds like the “Oh, Eff” problems backpackers have when they take their little propane/isobutane canisters for their stoves and realize the gas won’t vaporize T_T Luckily I am weak and I don’t like camping in the dead of winter.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
4 months ago
Reply to  Citrus

But a plug in block heater solves that. And it allows warm air to be pumped immediately. Best investment ever.

3WiperB
3WiperB
4 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

The battery power could be used to heat the diesel tank too. It will never happen though, because people are more concerned with even a small amount of emissions that it would give off vs. the user experience.

Just for note, I got about 7 miles of range in my PHEV at 0 degrees F this week. It’s rated for 20 miles. If I’m going on a longer trip, I’ll run my engine first to make waste heat for the cabin, and then switch to battery.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
4 months ago
Reply to  3WiperB

I ran an extension cord from my porch light to the block heater. That kept the engine block and fuel reserve usable. Even below zero 3am engine fired right up and the heater threw warm air. Fortunately previous owner paid for the equipment install. Before I knew it was there had real trouble waiting for the glow plugs to do there job. Trust me any one in this situation is going block heater.

Turkina
Turkina
4 months ago
Reply to  3WiperB

Maybe in the future, PHEV cars will also have the pre-conditioning and pre-warming option available for EV cars. You could have your battery and car warmed for when you unplug to go to work. So theoretically at least for the ride to work, your battery should do a pretty good job.

3WiperB
3WiperB
4 months ago
Reply to  Turkina

They already do. My 2014 Volt did this and my 330e currently does this. The other advantage is that they can do this in electric in an enclosed garage. I have our departure time programmed into the car and its heated (or cooled) when we are ready to leave.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
4 months ago
Reply to  3WiperB

It will never happen though, because people are more concerned with even a small amount of emissions that it would give off vs. the user experience.”

Not true. Using diesel purely for heat is exactly what is being implemented for the electric transit buses used by the Toronto Transit Commission.

Citrus
Citrus
4 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

Sure it does, but if we’re talking about an EV it’s already plugged in, so you just use the built-in resistive heater.

I mean, you’re not driving in this weather without a block heater, but the advantages of a diesel auxiliary heater are non-existent at best, and actually major disadvantages at worse.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
4 months ago
Reply to  Citrus

Good to know my diesel experience taught me nothing about evs. So a normal household plug-in ev keeps it heated and charges? I hadn’t read that and I know nothing.

Citrus
Citrus
4 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

Yeah, EVs can heat and charge at the same time through the same plug – though you need something more substantial than a normal household plug in general if you want to charge at a reasonable speed. And the heat will be hot immediately too.

They’re pretty fundamentally different from a diesel – and I will never, ever discount the importance of a block heater on a combustion engine. The only reason any car could start this weekend.

Mr Sarcastic
Mr Sarcastic
4 months ago
Reply to  Citrus

Not here had 11 below but a electric block heater can get above zero. Did 10 years in PA 3am delivery.

Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
4 months ago
Reply to  Mr Sarcastic

Man that sounds like a rough gig.

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
4 months ago
Reply to  3WiperB

As a former owner of an air cooled VW. No, just no on an auxiliary fuel heater.

I was simply grateful to be in an enclosed vehicle with no wind chill.

RataTejas
RataTejas
4 months ago
Reply to  3WiperB

Reminds me of the gas heaters in air-cooled VW’s. My 82 Westfalia had one. It sucked.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
4 months ago
Reply to  3WiperB

I often wonder if using diesel or kerosene as an optional source for just the heat in an EV would be much more efficient and increase winter range”

That is exactly what is being done for future electric transit buses in Toronto.
https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/ebuslessonslearned_210414.pdf

“s. 4. For future procurements, the TTC will avoid a pure-electric defroster unit without fully understanding the energy efficiency performance. 5. For future procurements, the TTC will continue to specify a diesel-fired heater requirement until heat pump technology is viable.”

Mr. Asa
Mr. Asa
4 months ago

I wonder how loudly the Canadian branch of Ya’ll Qaeda is screaming about this EV mandate.
Also, I wonder how Canada itself is going to deal with the cold and EVs

Elons Backdoor Musk
Elons Backdoor Musk
4 months ago
Reply to  Mr. Asa

There was recently a deep cold snap in Alberta that lead to electricity shortages and people were advised to not charge their cars….it’s a pretty loud voice at this point.

Citrus
Citrus
4 months ago

The cold snap really only hit Alberta’s power grid hardest because Danielle Smith and friends are so comically inept. The rest of the prairies – especially Manitoba – had the same cold snap and more than enough electricity to go around.

John Neilsen
John Neilsen
4 months ago
Reply to  Citrus

Manitoba has a population of 1.4 million compared to Alberta’s 4.5 million. Half of the population lives in Winterpeg. The number of EV cars outside of that city is probably less than the number of registered snowmobiles.

Citrus
Citrus
4 months ago
Reply to  John Neilsen

And EVs weren’t the cause of Alberta’s power problems. It was all Danielle Smith and the other idiots in power undermining their own infrastructure and being fundamentally unprepared for the -40 weather that happens every year. There may be more EVs than previous years, but that isn’t what causes a power spike in cold weather.

The fact remains that Alberta is run by incompetent fuckwits who shouldn’t be in charge of a Wendy’s, let alone an entire province.

John Neilsen
John Neilsen
4 months ago
Reply to  Citrus

Ev’s werent the cause of the problem. The problem is the NDP closed the electrical generation at Genesee and others without a plan on how to replace the power they produced. The electrical power from the solar grid did not help at night when the tempeture went to -50C windmills stopped when the wind stopped. Image if 50% of the population had to depend on EV’s to get to work in the morning. Or if we used EV trucks to transport goods. A lot of people would be in dire situations without any remedies.

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
4 months ago
Reply to  John Neilsen

Renewable generation is not the problem. It’s lack of a proper grid to collect and distribute it. This is a policy/effort failure.

Part of that is that they haven’t figured out how to collect royalties on renewable properly, so they continue to lean on the fossils for their revenue base.

C12H23
C12H23
4 months ago

The wind and solar generation could have been increased by an order of magnitude and it would not have helped. Days are too short this time of year to collect a decent amount from solar. With wind, it was a two-part issue, the first was that below -30 most windmills have to be shut down so that they don’t break apart from the cold. The second is that there was next to no wind. Wind farms were operating at 0.1% capacity. The only thing that would have helped were more coal, natural gas, or nuclear generators which would have to have been started being built probably a decade ago due to regulations and everything.

Citrus
Citrus
4 months ago
Reply to  John Neilsen

Imagine Danielle Smith lifting a single finger to do anything for infrastructure instead of sitting on her ass and blaming the previous government from 5 years ago for her failure. I can’t.

Elons Backdoor Musk
Elons Backdoor Musk
4 months ago
Reply to  Citrus

It hit -50 in some places.

No one was prepared for it.

Citrus
Citrus
4 months ago

Yet nobody else had the threat of rolling blackouts.

Last edited 4 months ago by Citrus
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
4 months ago
Reply to  Citrus

Sounds like the Texas of the North.

C12H23
C12H23
4 months ago
Reply to  Citrus

Manitoba did not have the same cold snap. Was it part of the same system? Yes, but our temperatures were nothing like what Alberta had. Danielle Smith had nothing to do with it, unless planned plant maintenance, meteorology, and the tilt of the earth are her fault. One natural gas generator was down for maintenance, basically no wind power (0.1%) was generated because there was no wind (some actually had to be shut down or risk damage to the wind turbines), middle of winter so very little sunlight for PV, another natural gas generator was off due to the cold weather. On top of that, Alberta set an all-time record for power consumption in the province’s history. The only thing that would have helped them is to travel back in time while NDP was in power and build more coal, natural gas, or nuclear plants.

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
4 months ago
Reply to  Citrus

When you campaign on pipelines, you don’t invest in transmission lines. Even if that would be better for the overall economy. It’s in the Bible dummy! Go see for yourself.

Ecsta C3PO
Ecsta C3PO
4 months ago
Reply to  Mr. Asa

People are freaking out enough that I don’t have confidence that it will stick around, even though if you think it through for 5 seconds it mostly means there will be more hybrids, not being forced to by EVs

Andrew Wyman
Andrew Wyman
4 months ago
Reply to  Mr. Asa

I mean, Alberta has some very oil dependent economy, so people there will already be yelling about this there. Places like Saskatchewan will have a harder time, because the distances between cities is greater. My cousins in Sask have EV’s but they live in Saskatoon, while my aunt and uncle out in a much smaller town, can barely make it to Saskatoon with their Mustang EV in the winter. They all have a gas vehicle. PHEV’s are definitely needed there, but the options are limited. As a PHEV driver myself, I really think they are what is needed in some of the provinces.

Citrus
Citrus
4 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Wyman

I’m not too concerned about charging infrastructure in Sask because Co-op is going hard building it up. Hell freaking Wynyard has fast charging.

Andrew Wyman
Andrew Wyman
4 months ago
Reply to  Citrus

Charging is growing but unless you have a Tesla, it’s tougher. They are in North Battleford and there are only 3 charging stations unless you have a Tesla. Charging at home is what they do most.

RataTejas
RataTejas
4 months ago
Reply to  Andrew Wyman

Except the fact that the population in Saskatchewan combined is barely a small to moderately sized city.

It’s all virtue signaling. You could eliminate all carbon emissions from Canada and it might cover what the US or China produce in a day.

Spikedlemon
Spikedlemon
4 months ago

If SAIC & Geely can mobilize to align the standards and get a dealership structure established, they would be well positioned.

Either they see the incentive as a toe-in to the USA and chase the (relatively) small market of Canada, or they don’t bother and Canadians would see some interesting pricing structures of those few companies that can deliver.

Likely outcome: some new government sees this as deeply unpopular, and re-writes the rules for whichever trading partner makes the most noise (e.g. status quo with USA) and sells to a gullible public through fear for votes (costs-too-much/something-something-China/them-thar-foreigners).

Ranwhenparked
Ranwhenparked
4 months ago
Reply to  Spikedlemon

“Likely outcome: some new government sees this as deeply unpopular, and re-writes the rules for whichever trading partner makes the most noise (e.g. status quo with USA) and sells to a gullible public through fear for votes (costs-too-much/something-something-China/them-thar-foreigners).”

I really don’t see the Liberals ever going that route, and it’s a mathematical impossibility for the Conservatives to ever form a government again, so I think that’s all a non-issue.

I mean, maybe, maybe some special carve-out for US and Mexican new car imports, maybe, but with the rest of the North American auto industry already moving toward electrification anyway, that might not matter enough soon.

Elons Backdoor Musk
Elons Backdoor Musk
4 months ago
Reply to  Ranwhenparked

The Conservatives are polling at super majority levels. I’d bet my house they win the next election

Ranwhenparked
Ranwhenparked
4 months ago

Eh, I don’t see it, how accurate are any polls these days, really, with the lack of landlines and all? Trudeau may not be all that popular, personally, but I think the party still is in the three provinces that really matter.

We’ll see I guess, the only real poll is on election day

Elons Backdoor Musk
Elons Backdoor Musk
4 months ago
Reply to  Ranwhenparked

Canada 338 aggregates all polls and gives The Conservatives an over 99% chance of forming government.

It’s obviously over for the Liberals.

Ecsta C3PO
Ecsta C3PO
4 months ago

What happened in Aug/Sep 2023 right before that huge spike in CPC?

Citrus
Citrus
4 months ago
Reply to  Ecsta C3PO

If I remember right they did a carbon tax rebate that specifically benefitted one region – Atlantic Canada is really the only place that uses heating oil – and that set off a pretty big backlash for everyone who used natural gas heat.

Last edited 4 months ago by Citrus
Elons Backdoor Musk
Elons Backdoor Musk
4 months ago
Reply to  Citrus

Plus it did nothing to gain favour among Atlantic Canadians.

Canadians generally vote out governments after 10 years. PP just has good timing.

Spikedlemon
Spikedlemon
4 months ago
Reply to  Ranwhenparked

It’s got a 10 fuse to happen, and voters are fickle folk easily swayed by empty promises of “buck a beer” or “cheap gas” (as though the price of fuel is controlled by a secret cabal controlled by the elected party of your displeasure).

JunkerDave
JunkerDave
4 months ago
Reply to  Spikedlemon

I can’t speak for Canada, but in the US the price of fuel is pretty much controlled by greedy oil companies. If the price of oil is high in Europe, “we have to raise prices to meet the market”, even though the US is the world’s biggest oil producer and production costs don’t change.

Spikedlemon
Spikedlemon
4 months ago
Reply to  JunkerDave

All roads lead to higher prices.

Hurricane in the Gulf? High prices.
Instability in the middle-east? High prices
Shipping challenges somewhere around the world? High prices
Coldsnap / heatwave? High prices
Refinery maintenance? High prices.
Someone starting a war somewhere in the world? High prices.
Price goes up somewhere else in the world? High prices.

The only thing that seems to reliably bring it down is a recession.

Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
4 months ago
Reply to  Spikedlemon

You forgot this: “We want more money. High prices.”

Elons Backdoor Musk
Elons Backdoor Musk
4 months ago
Reply to  JunkerDave

We have the national carbon tax which adds about 15 cents per litre. It doesn’t help the cost.

Sklooner
Sklooner
4 months ago

So in 2040 Stellantis or whatever their name is will be selling new 2019 Dodge Journeys ? keep that old model year coming

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
4 months ago
Reply to  Sklooner

At least the Dodge name will still be around. /s

Lizardman in a human suit
Lizardman in a human suit
4 months ago
Reply to  Sklooner

Well there is a massive glut of Jeep Renegades. Off to Canada with them!

TOSSABL
TOSSABL
4 months ago

What did Canada ever do to you to deserve that??

Rad Barchetta
Rad Barchetta
4 months ago
Reply to  TOSSABL

Two words: Justin Bieber.

Col Lingus
Col Lingus
4 months ago
Reply to  Rad Barchetta

Leave It To Bieber.

TOSSABL
TOSSABL
4 months ago
Reply to  Rad Barchetta

Well, ok, on top off his pointless, vacuous ‘music’ and what passes for a personality, he had a Fisker Karma freakin chrome wrapped. But, damn, inflicting all those Renegades on the population is like sending them to at least the 6th circle of Hell. There’d be generations of trauma!
Plus, they gave us Rush, so I’m rather inclined to be charitable about JB

Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
4 months ago
Reply to  TOSSABL

On the one hand:

Foreigner
Celine Dion
Triumph
Justin Bieber

On the other:

Rush
Big Wreck
Neil Young
Antoine Dufour

I’m not calling it a draw but it’s tighter than a GM-vs-GM shitbox showdown.

Rad Barchetta
Rad Barchetta
4 months ago

Your lists are a little mixed up, but you make a strong argument.
Result: Canada gets half the Renegades. The rest can go back to Italy.

Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
4 months ago
Reply to  Rad Barchetta

User name gives away your leanings 🙂

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