Holes In The Water: 1977 Bayliner vs 1970 Bayliner

Sbsd 7 29

Good morning, and happy Friday to you all! On today’s edition, we’re leaving the wheels behind and taking to the high seas (or at least the lakes and rivers) with a pair of cheap old runabout motorboats. Or, as they’re often called, “holes in the water that you pour money into.” Before we dive into those, let’s see which Caddy you’d rather set sail in:

Screen Shot 2022 07 28 At 5.30.31 Pm

Yep, that would be my choice too. Looking at that ’91 makes me miss my ’89 Coupe DeVille. That was just too damn big, but this Eldorado looks just right. And I prefer that earlier square-jawed style. It’s going to make somebody a nice cheap ride, that one.

So… Boats. I’ll come right out and say it, I’m a little out of my depth [Editor’s Note: I GET IT! – JT] here. Most of these columns I can sail through without a whole lot of research, but this time I can’t just float along. [Editor’s Note: Oh there’s more – JT]  I need to navigate some unknown waters today, and I hope those who know better what they’re talking about will show me a little patience as I learn the ropes. [Editor’s Note: Oh god – JT] With that said, let’s get our feet wet – possibly literally.

Both of these boats are made by Bayliner, who, as I understand it, had a reputation for some pretty cheap shoddy materials and workmanship early on. But like any “cheap” product, they have their devoted followers, willing to put in the work to turn them into something respectable. But because of the bad reputation, they often sell cheap, even the nice ones. Basically, they’re the shitboxes of the boat world, which makes them perfect for us.

1977 Bayliner Mosquito – $1,600

00707 Ilacxg9fcwoz 0ci0t2 1200x900

Engine: 85 hp Mercury 4 cylinder 2 stroke outboard

Location: Portland, OR

Length: 17 ft

Condition: Good, no leaks, engine runs but has a miss

This would appear to be it: the least amount you can spend for a pleasure boat that is intact and has a hope of being seaworthy. It has a fiberglass hull and an 85 horsepower outboard motor. As is common for outboard boat engines, this is a 2 stroke engine. The reasons for this are that boats don’t need a lot of  torque, but top-end horsepower is useful. (Snowmobiles are usually 2 strokes for the same reason.) 2 stroke engines are also smaller and lighter than 4 stroke engines, which is important when you have to swing the whole engine back and forth to steer, and pick it up out of the water when you’re done.

00m0m 2xrd7rrjawgz 0ci0t2 1200x900

This particular Mercury outboard is having some issues; the seller says it runs, but “something is just off.” There aren’t a lot of moving parts in a 2-stroke motor, no valves or camshafts, so the list of potential trouble spots is few. But finding parts for a 45-year-old boat motor might not be the easiest thing, and replacement outboards aren’t cheap.

00k0k Gplozwslgs8z 0ci0t2 1200x900

Apart from the engine issues, it doesn’t look too bad for a $1600 boat. The seller lists a lot of recent work done, including work on the included trailer. It sounds like it might have been in storage for a while, and if the engine wasn’t put into storage properly, that could account for its problems now.

00o0o Dxgj1seczagz 0ci0t2 1200x900

Boats are not a cheap hobby, but if the price of entry is this low, this could be a good way to dabble without having to commit to too much expense. And chances are, if the engine isn’t fixable, you can move it on to another owner for the same price.

 

1970 Bayliner Runabout – $2,700

01111 2ccd5opalahz 0ci0ko 1200x900

Engine: 105 hp Chrysler 4 cylinder 2 stroke outboard

Location: Portland, OR

Length: 17 ft

Condition: Great! Ready to go

Raise your hand if you knew that Chrysler Coropration was once a giant in the boating industry.

That’s what I figured. Chrysler Marine fell victim to the corporation’s money troubles in the late 1970s, and was sold off piecemeal to other companies in the early ’80s. But in the 1960s and ’70s, Chrysler boats and boat engines were huge.

00o0o C2jvvwwbopxz 0ci0t2 1200x900

This 1970 Bayliner would have been a competitor to Chrysler’s speedboats, but it shares the same 2 stroke outboard motor. Chrysler boat motors were highly regarded and very reliable, and this one has been gone over carefully, and according to the seller, runs like a top.

01111 8lhxkivnnhkz 0ci0t2 1200x900

The rest of this boat has been well cared-for as well, and it shows. A long list of recent repairs and maintenance is listed in the ad, and it comes with a whole assortment of extras, including the all-important cover. These old Bayliner boats have fiberglass hulls, but wooden decks and structure, so it’s important to keep them out of the elements when they’re not supposed to get wet.

00q0q Cacoitjv88z 0t20ci 1200x900

I have to be honest: I really dig this boat. I have no idea if it’s actually a good deal or not, but it sure seems to be. I can see myself putting on a Hawaiian shirt and my straw trilby, playing a little Herb Alpert on the sound system, and puttering up to the marina bar at happy hour. (I don’t know why it has to be Herb Alpert, but it does.)

And that’s the problem with looking at cheap boats; they put all kinds of bad ideas in your head. Everybody knows you don’t really want a boat anyway – you want a friend with a boat. But for these prices, you could probably learn that lesson first-hand and not lose too much in the process. So if you’re going to make this particular mistake, which one is it going to be?

 

QuizMaker

Share on facebook
Facebook
Share on whatsapp
WhatsApp
Share on twitter
Twitter
Share on linkedin
LinkedIn
Share on reddit
Reddit

63 Responses

  1. Retired powersports/marine service guy here. If you had dragged either one of these old tubs into our parking lot, we would have politely requested you leave forthwith. Old boats are like a puppy—a heartbreak waiting to happen. Usually when you are out in the middle of the lake with a lightning storm approaching. I got stories, but you don’t want to hear them all.
    The dealership I worked for found that working on old boats was a no-win situation. You can’t get parts for motors this old and no repair you do is going to make the customer happy. You might as well perform CPR on a rotting corpse. Practically speaking, if someone buys a boat this cheap, they seldom have the funds to pay for someone else to work on it. Be aware that you will be faced with car dealership levels of labor and parts costs if you can’t fix it yourself.
    If you’re a good wrench and understand two-strokes, you might make out on one of these but you’re still going to spend lots of money and time.
    Personally, I have had all of boats and boat owners I want and then some. Don’t care if I ever get on one again. Incidentally I did own an ’86 Bayliner 1850 with Chrysler 125, among other holes in the water over the years. That proved the adage that the two best days in a boat owner’s life are the day he buys it and the day he sells it. And yes, the commenters who pointed the questionable reliability of Chrysler motors are not kidding. Not to mention that 85hp Merc will run away and hide from the 105hp Chrysler if on similar size boats.
    Boats can be fun if you have a lot of disposable income. I got to play with the dealership owner’s new 24′ Manitou pontoon equipped with TWO 400HP Evinrudes. Acceleration was unbelievable. Ever go 75mph on a pontoon boat? Fun for a while, but really kind of pointless, unless you’re the guy who has to have the fastest pontoon boat on the lake and has a couple hundred grand to in fun money to blow.

  2. I will gladly hang out on your boat to knock back a cold one or two while listening to some Herb Alpert. I love me some Tijuana Brass. And knocking back cold ones on boats. Your boat, that is. I ain’t voting for these floating nightmares.

  3. Boat: Wouldn’t maker a choice without knowing the condition of the floor. Tearing out rotten plywood and stringers…rebuilding a transom..is not fun in any sense.
    A Bayliner of this vintage would, in my opinion, not be worth a rebuild.

    Motor: I’d go with the Mercury. Back in the lake days we had a runabout with a 65 hp Merc. It was good and totally reliable. I echo what other said about the Chrysler outboards being considerably less so.

  4. Looking at these boats makes me feel like I am watching an episode of CHiPs. Some guy is towing his boat behind his 70’s era Country Squire station wagon when a teenage driver in a VW dune buggy cuts him off while driving recklessly. The station wagon loses control and spins out, while the boat breaks free and careens down the highway.

    Ponch and John witness this from an overpass and zoom down the overpass after the dune buggy. Cue disco infused theme song.

    Now I want to watch an episode of ChiPs. Also, if you do watch an episode, you’ll notice the same cars in every scene.

  5. Who doesn’t love motorboating!!!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jdQlGluJ9A

    I’ll take the Mosquito. At least there would be one chance in hell that you could get a part or two for the engine since Mercury Marine has been around forever. Plus it has a small swim step for getting back into the boat after swimming/skiing. Trying to get back into the runabout without a step would be a humiliating sight for an old, large person such as myself.

  6. Boats aside, let’s talk engines.

    Those Chrysler engines, while cool in many ways, are not that great. It may be running now, but with any outboard engine, it will stop running and need repairs. Good freaking luck finding parts for a motor that old. Especially one of that brand.

    Almost the same for the Mercury, but at least the Mercury had higher sales numbers and the likelihood of finding salvage (almost no parts are still made for outboards that old) parts for them is much higher.

  7. Let’s clear up one misconception – Chrysler boat engines engines were not ” highly regarded and very reliable” in the 1970s and 80s. I know. As a young lad in my pre-automotive days I was very much a boater. Still am, lo these many decades later. And while the Mercury engines of the day were known to be a bit more finicky about maintenance and upkeep, they were solid performers. The Chrysler engines not so much. I knew of only two on the lake. One was a smaller engine – a 35 I think. On a pontoon boat. Smoked like a bad diesel. It made our Evinrudes look downright ecologically responsible. The other was this engine – the 105. A friend of ours had it on his bass boat. It spent more time in the shop than the water. Big, noisy unreliable thing. We towed it home more than once. He didn’t own it long – replaced it with an I/O Regal with a Mercruiser.

    Based on that, I’ll vote for the Mosquito.

    FWIW, Between Dad and I we’ve had 9 different outboard engines on mostly different boats. If I include the boats of friends & neighbors I’ve spent time operating and working with, that number jumps to 17, and doesn’t include the inboard ski boats.

    1. I totally agree with your take on Chrysler outboards. I also boated extensively in the 1970’s (in my younger days). Chrysler outboards were the ones to avoid. They were bought by people who either didn’t know any better, or because they were cheaper than the alternatives.

      Mercury’s were the ‘performance’ motors. If you wanted to go fast, had a hot boat, you wanted a Mercury. Evinrude and Johnson were the ‘reliable’ or ‘family boat’ motors. Good torque if not the highest hp, heavier than Mercury, easy to live with.

      Chrysler outboard motors didn’t have anywhere near the stellar reputation of their car engines. The 426 Hemi and other Chrysler motors were usually the standards by which others were judged. Their outboards, unfortunately, were the other end of the spectrum.

    2. My dad had a 55 hp version on a fiberglass trihull. The crankshaft snapped. Somehow, it got him back to the dock, but it sounded like the end of the world. When we discovered that we could tip the flywheel 5 degrees in any direction, we decided that engine was done for.

  8. I grew up around boats and while, yes, they do involve money if you do your own wrenching and properly maintain them it is not as bad as their reputation gives them. 2 stroke engines are the way to go and the smaller the cheaper. Both of these are in the sweet spot of ease of care and usability. The biggest factor here is actually the condition of the hulls any rot or cracking in the fiber glass and it’s a hard pass. Assuming both hulls are in good shape. The ‘77 is the one you want here despite the issues with a misfire. It’s been in storage a while and likely needs new fuel and a tune up (maybe new carbs). That opening middle section of the windshield is a HUGE game changer in comfort while on the water (no shade and sunlight is reflected back up). Both of these engines are at the point we’re if it’s not a cheap fix it’s time to consider a repower. Even if it’s running well now, that ‘70 Chrysler engine will likely start having issues soon as well.

    1. I made the similar comment about the leaks.

      I have memories of days spent in a barn getting high on fumes and covered in goo, and damnit, no matter how well we did it, it would never seem to actually hold for long (aka don’t leave shore w/o the hand pump).

  9. Runabout for sure, if only for the engine. In my experience, Mercury engines were troublesome when new, much less one this old!

    And as long as no leaks on the boat anywhere, the non-mechanical upkeep and other stuff is just a little work now and again.

    These types of boats are the seagoing equivalent of a Ford Mustang – cheap, quick, versatile, and if not particularly classy, plenty of fun.

    1. “The best boat options are the ones your friends own! ”

      Preferably ones who live a few blocks over at a minimum so all your immediate neighbors have plenty of garage and driveway space to store all their crap.

  10. I didn’t read any of this. I went straight down to vote for the cheaper boat, because both of them will drain your bank account regardless of which one is in better condition now. You might as well save some money up front before you have to decide between selling it for a huge loss or trying your hand at insurance fraud.

  11. No and more no. These things have zero appeal to me. Total wastes of fiberglass and gasoline, and not even nice to look at.

    These particular boats are too small for anything more than fishing, anyway. Anyone nursing ideas of a party should keep in mind that a beer cooler will mean you can take 3 passengers at most and they won’t be moving around much.

  12. I got my first wrenching job in a marina on Cape Cod in 1973. We wouldn’t work on Chrysler engines then and I wouldn’t work on one now. I’d take the Skeeter, make an attempt to fix the Merc and if not an easy fix, go find a decent used motor. The styling on the Skeeter is timeless.

  13. Anything other than a Mercury is a mistake. Finding parts and support for the Merc would be easy, as almost ANY marine has a Merc Dealer and any marine repair shop is going to be familiar with these engines. The Chrysler? Yeah good luck finding even basic parts.

  14. Either or, plan for a repower. Those old Mercury’s require special tools and all the old guys that have them are retiring. And that Chrysler outboard is just a boat anchor so either one you choose knock on the transom and the deck and make sure they aren’t soft and plan on throwing a more modern 50 horse on the back and you’ll be fine.

  15. The Mosquito is much nicer looking. They’re probably both going to need some structural work, so you’d better like what you end up with, at least a little.

    Fiberglass and wood aren’t really all that hard to work with; it’s just time consuming, messy and unfamiliar to most people, so they just don’t try. That’s why you can find so many cheap boats around.

    Also, the Merc is a much better motor to have. Parts shouldn’t be too hard to find, even for one this old. The Chrysler should be just fine, as long as you don’t go over 90% throttle very often. But the thing is, almost every boater runs wide open throttle pretty often.

  16. Buy the one that’s ready to go, play with it until something breaks, sell it to some other fool for the same amount that you paid for it. Not worth getting into a long-term relationship with either one of these, but they’re cheap enough for a summer of fun… if they last that long.

  17. Take the cheap newer hill and buy a new(er) outboard. The old boat with the “good” engine will inevitably need to be replaced at some point, so save a grand now cos you’ll be forking out either way

  18. Bayliners were always known as the cheapest boat you could buy. They were owned by AMF, the company that made Bowling Balls. I abstained from this choice, as the best choice here, is no choice. Bayliner did sell some passable boats from 1985 to 1994, and they were still the cheapest. In 1985 you could get a new 17.5 ft bow-rider with a 130HP inboard-outboard, and with a trailer package, for $5995. That was only 2 to 3 times what these old Tuna Barges are asking.

  19. Solid no on both of those without a first-hand inspection of the structure on them, especially the transom.

    I know SO MANY local gearheads that picked up boats from that era who thought it was an easy way into a fun summer on the water only to end up scrapping or spending WAY more than it was worth because the wood under the fiberglass was rotted out making it a noodly mess or the ‘glass was delaminated from UV damage.

    Boats are money pits when they’re in good shape; old tubs doubly so.

  20. err, not sure where the Chrysler reliability notion came from, but growing up on the mississippi river, I can recall them all breaking down often. the Mercury and Evinrudes ruled. Johnson’s were only on little boats and were reliable I am told. the 77 is visually in better shap and indicate the sun deck is properly bolstered to hold a bather or two. I would rather take the merc over the chrysler all day long. neither will last long though most likely. but the 77 probably has the ability to hold a larger Merc.

  21. As someone who moonlighted down at a local marina for a couple years, I don’t want either: I’ll stick with a canoe! Now, boats are great when they’re running and right, but it takes a LOT of maintenance to keep them up once you gotten them there. There’s always >something < needing attention. And, I’m talking freshwater: I don’t even want to think about the work when you’re around the salt.

    I’ll paddle, thank you!

  22. I voted for the Runabout as it appears less likely to have rotten stringers or floor. But, to be honest, I wouldn’t spend a dime on either. Either one I wouldn’t trust the motor while out on the water and I would want to repower it, but, once you start going down that route it’s a waste of money on a Bayliner.

    IMHO most people selling boats like these are trying to get someone to pay them to take away their trash. Disposing of a fiberglass boat is expensive, much better if you can get someone with dreams of boating to pay you to take it off your hands.

  23. “gone through by my ace mechanic brother” translates to:
    My brother told me to get rid of this before it empties my pockets, so he helped me prep it for sale.

    In reality, whichever one doesn’t have rotten flooring or other wood parts would be the one to choose, and you have to do an on-site inspection for that.

  24. I’d rather buy a used U-Haul. Fortunately you can rent either, hourly or daily, with or without a crew. When I rent a boat I get it already in the desired body of water and return it without loading it onto a trailer. I was in the USN for ten years, that’s more than enough working on water vessels. I’ll play on a recreational water vessel, but someone else is going to have to fix it. Done with that.

  25. As a guy who has FOUR 2-stroke jet skis in various states of repair, buy the one that’s ready to go. (yes that many, click my profile and see the cover photo). I’m probably selling 2 very soon, but yeah, buy the working one for not much more money and enjoy the rest of the summer!

  26. Not really a fan of boats (except the speedboats my grandfather had). Between the two I would buy the better sorted runabout. You are already buying a large ongoing expense, might as well start off it the better one.

    1. Oh, and folks snarking about throwing money at holes in the water are mistaking these lil’ guys for much larger craft. The smaller (and lighter) the boat, the less there is to go wrong. These won’t have water makers, refrigeration, toilets, nav units, bow thrusters, light effects, or really any amenities at all. They’ll get around with modest engines, stay put on small anchors, and pay the minimum rate at the launch ramp or marina. All that should keep them from landing you in the poorhouse.

  27. This reminds me of childhood car trips. There was somewhere we’d pass in what had to have been Ohio or Indiana where there were a couple of sad man-made lakes stuffed to the gills with these sorts of little guys. It’s probably the image I most associate with pleasure boating, and a leading reason why I have no interest in pleasure boating. 2 stroke fumes being another leading reason. Yuck.

  28. My parents owned a ’72 Chrysler tri-hull boat with a Chrysler 75HP outboard back in the mid ’90s when we lived in Texas. I recall the engine not being that reliable, to the point that I can still clearly remember how to remove the engine cover because I had to do it for my dad fairly often. A submerged tree stump ultimately took out the transom of the boat and we transferred the outboard to some ’80s V-hull boat.

  29. Boatopians: No and No. This is not how you want to be introduced to boat ownership. This is not how you want to introduce your spouse to boat ownership.

    Currently have two sailboats, only one with a motor, and they take enough money to maintain, run, and store. The one without a motor was inherited and I’ve still spent over $1500 refitting the trailer, epoxy repairs, and replacing worn items. “Free boat with a history and connection, you should take it” she said 3 years and a cross-country trip ago. “That boat is just sitting there costing us money” she now says. These old boats and motors would suck so much more time to get and keep them ready for the water than you’ll ever spend actually on the water.

    You also don’t use it nearly as often as you think you will, especially not after the first year or two when the honeymoon period wears off.

    Grew up on a lake and we had an old Chrysler outboard of this era for a while that was the least reliable we ever had, and my dad scrounged up some pretty unreliable crap. New motor for either boat will set you back more than double the initial cost, and that’s for something under 30hp just to get you around the lake and maybe pull a smaller kid tubing.

    The only way you’d want to pick up either of these is if you have a David Tracy level of commitment to old Bayliners. Wait, has Torchinsky repaid DT’s truck gift yet?

Leave a Reply