Home » How Volkswagen’s Attempt To Go Electric Might Have Ironically Made The Company Dirtier

How Volkswagen’s Attempt To Go Electric Might Have Ironically Made The Company Dirtier

Tmd Vw Dirty Ts
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Volkswagen has struggled around the world post-Dieselgate, but at least the North American arm was able to send more than a billion dollars home to Wolfsburg during the pandemic. This led the brand’s new regional CEO to promise even bigger returns on the back of electric car sales. That’s not happening, and now the company finds itself in the ironic position of potentially losing billions of dollars in North America, partially because electrification has made its US offerings too dirty in the aggregate. The more cars it sells, potentially, the worse it does.

Everyone in Europe wants to know how VW is going to save itself and if it can do so without having to close a bunch of plants, which is unpalatable for many reasons. Volkswagen thinks it can do it, but it won’t be easy and will likely involve wage cuts, per reports.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

This Morning Dump won’t be all VW, I promise. We’ve been calling it the “Year of the Hybrid,” but perhaps it’s the Decade of the EREV is more accurate? And, finally, if we’re going to really electrify America we need help from landlords. Happy Monday, I’m sure all anyone cares about this week is my thoughts on EREVs.

Volkswagen Will Probably Lose More Than A Billion Dollars In Expected Revenue After Foreseeable Catch-22

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Joseph Heller became famous for coining the term Catch-22 in his novel of the same name. The protagonist of the book, Captain John Yossarian, is an American pilot in WWII who wants to go home, which requires flying a certain number of dangerous combat missions. But every time he completes the required number of missions his commanding officer raises the number he needs to go home. Accomplishing his goal, paradoxically, puts him further away from his goal.

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Yossarian vacillates between being worried about the Germans and being worried about his American superiors. Volkswagen Group of America CEO Pablo Di Si is an Argentine who is vacillating between being worried about American customers and his German superiors, who are reportedly considering firing him.

His crime? Being too successful and, at the same time, extremely unsuccessful.

I don’t need to hit this too hard, but in the wake of Dieselgate it was decided in Germany that the company would go hard into electrification, largely skipping over the interim step of offering hybrids. The theory was that, given the rapidly advancing take rate for EVs, changes to climate laws, and the general vibe that vehicles like the Porsche Taycan, Volkswagen ID.4, and the ID.Buzz were getting, this would change VW’s outward perception and fortunes.

As Jack Ewing writes in his excellent book on the Dieselgate crisis:

“The emissions scandal forced Volkswagen to abandon its longtime obsessions with diesel. Instead, Volkswagen focused its still formidable industrial might on a transition to electric cars. That was the only way the company could rebuild its reputation and comply with increasingly stringent limits on carbon dioxide emissions.”

Was it the only way, though? The company was already losing ground before Dieselgate, and in the years following the company saw its sales dwindle. Ironically for a company with a desire to clean up its act, it was the exclusively gas-powered SUVs like the large Volkswagen Atlas SUV that helped the company return to sales success. So far this year, VW ID.4 sales are down while the Atlas, Atlas CrossSport, and long-wheelbase Tiguan are up 16%, 6%, and 26%, respectively.

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To make matters more complicated, Volkswagen hit the same supply constraints everyone else did during the pandemic and, in a similar fashion, made more money doing so. It was able to return profits to Volkswagen which, for Di Si, who became CEO over here around that time, was maybe a bad thing.

Germany’s Der Spiegel has a whole write-up on Di Si that came out this weekend and the implication is that things aren’t looking great for Di Si:

More than a billion euros of expected earnings from North America will be missing by 2025, with Thomas Schäfer, the CEO of VW’s passenger car operations, having to scrounge up that money elsewhere. Chairman of the Board Oliver Blume, who declared success in North America to be a company priority, now has to begin looking around for a new executive for the region after just two years.

[…]

The new executive awakened expectations back in Wolfsburg that the pandemic-era profits would continue to pour in. A mistake. “You get such a job when you make big promises,” says a company executive who asked not to be identified. “And you lose it again because you are unable to fulfill them.”

Yikes!

In fairness to Di Si, what was he supposed to do here? Volkswagen absolutely shot itself in the foot with an electrification plan that preceded Di Si who, again, has been asking for hybrids. This isn’t to say that electrification is a bad thing. It’s not! I think in all of my hype over hybrids I can sometimes, unintentionally, give the impression that I don’t think electrification makes sense. It does and, eventually, most new cars sold will be electric. It’s always been the timing and infrastructure that’s been the issue.

China has shown what’s possible when an entire society and government decide it wants electric cars, but that kind of organized movement is a little messier in a modern democracy. The economic woes in Europe, the IRA in the United States, and politics everywhere have made the transition a lot slower.

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Why that’s a huge issue is that both American and European governments have increasingly stringent CO2 requirements and Volkswagen assumed it would be able to hit those by balancing out all their popular ICE-powered SUVs and crossovers with increasingly larger EV sales.

That didn’t happen. Again, from Der Spiegel:

In May, Di Si’s team presented Blume with an alarming forecast for the electric car market. Predictions to that point had held that every second new car sold in 2030 would be purely electric, but newer prognostications had lowered that figure to 40 percent.

Plug-in hybrids, meanwhile, were predicted to make up 20 percent of new car sales by the end of the decade. Such vehicles, which have both a medium-sized battery and a combustion engine, also help producers adhere to the ZEV regulations in California. In the coming years, however, VW will not have a single plug-in hybrid model on the U.S. market. “The cupboards are bare,” says a top executive.

Double yikes! According to the article, we’re not likely to get a hybrid or PHEV version of the Tiguan until maybe 2027 at the earliest and the Atlas Hybrid might not get here until 2030. Not to keep piling irony on top of irony, but Scout Motors is owned by Volkswagen and seems to have exactly the right strategy of EREV/BEV cars and that company is run by… the guy who used to have Di Si’s job.

VW’s options in the short term are not good. The company can keep selling popular cars like the Golf R and Atlas and pay huge penalties for doing so in places like California. It can sell fewer cars, which means less money. It can pray that everyone buys an ID.Buzz, but I’m skeptical. This move to pure BEVs is — due to insufficient sales — actually making VW dirtier than if it had invested in more hybrids.

It’s bad. The inability to sell ID.4s could result in you no longer being able to get a Golf R!

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VW: You Can Keep Your Job, Maybe, If You Take A Pay Cut

Vw Plant
Photo: depositphotos.com

The German labor system has been based, to some degree, on the concept that workers get compensated alongside executives when the company is doing well and work with management to adjust when things get rough. This arrangement seems to be falling apart as Volkswagen considers extreme measures to remain competitive in a tough market.

Volkswagen is now telling its workers that it can either dramatically cut wages or close plants.

From Bloomberg:

Volkswagen AG laid out cost-savings proposals to workers that would shore up its financial position while potentially avoiding factory closures in Germany.

Arne Meiswinkel, the carmaker’s chief negotiator, said the measures include a 10% pay cut and revised bonus system. The moves are meant to shore up the VW brand that’s struggling with poor demand in Europe and intensifying competition in China.

VW and labor leaders warned that plant closures remain a possibility if a sufficient agreement can’t be reached.

Labor’s issue here seems to be that the problems facing the automaker are less the result of larger macroeconomic and global trends and, instead, due to a series of fraudulent and bad decisions that led them here that workers had zero control over at the time. That’s probably true (see above), but as big boss Oliver Blume said today “Our costs in Germany have to come down massively.”

China’s Nio Rumored To Be Making An EREV For Less EV-Advanced Countries Like France And Germany

Nio Et9 Live
Source: NIO

Ok, that was mean. That headline was mean. France and Germany are plenty advanced, just not in terms of electrification when you consider a place like China where more than half of the new vehicles now are sold with a plug.

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Chinese automakers desperately want to sell cars in Europe and, to do that might just need to make an EREV version. At least, that’s what Reuters is reporting:

Chinese electric vehicle maker Nio is planning to launch its first hybrid model in 2026 and will only sell it in overseas markets, including the Middle East, North Africa and Europe, according to two people with knowledge of the matter.

Nio to date has only manufactured pure electric vehicles. It is building the hybrid vehicle to address challenges faced by Chinese firms selling EVs in foreign markets, which have put up trade barriers and been slower to install charging facilities.

One of those markets is also the Middle East and the company’s biggest investor, the folks who also just bought McLaren, might have been the ones to suggest it.

Landlords Need To Start Building Out Charging Options

Focus Progressive Woman Using Phone And Holding Coffee At Charging Station.
Image: depositphotos.com

I would have loved to have purchased an EV or a PHEV when I bought my car, but I live in a city and have a parking space that’s probably ten years away from having any kind of charging option. It’s possible the city lot nearby will get EV chargers at some point, but my guess is we’re still a long time from that happening. So I got a regular ol’ hybrid.

It doesn’t have to be this way. When I went to visit David at his old apartment in California there was a garage full of EV chargers and it was therefore possible for David to keep buying BMW i3s and even a busted Nissan Leaf.

With home charging being the most efficient, cheapest, and most practical form of filling up an EV with electrons, it’s starting to become a bigger issue when an apartment complex doesn’t offer charging.

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From the Detroit Free Press:

Vehicle charging is expected in new multiunit luxury housing, said Brett Yuhasz, vice president of construction at Farmington Hills, Michigan, developer Hunter Pasteur.

“We’re responding to what the customer wants,” he said. “One of the first questions we get is, ‘What can you do to charge my car?’ When you think of luxury living and what it takes to be No. 1 in metro Detroit, EV charging is 1A or 1B. Like high-speed internet.”

The first couple to move into Hunter Pasteur’s new Apex luxury development in West Bloomfield, which says it offers 40 EV chargers, own a Tesla, Yuhasz said. “Clearly, we’re do something right.”

For new construction it’s a no-brainer, for old buildings like mine it’s a bit harder, but it’s not impossible.

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

No one talks about The Fiery Furnaces anymore. This is a very Elder Millennial complaint. I realize this. As my brain tries to grapple with the slowing down of time this week I’ve found that “Smelling Cigarettes” off the full-length EP album is helping. Just something about Eleanor Friedberger belting out “And I’m just drunk enough to open the window, yell out gruff: ‘Don’t you key that brand-new Camry'”

The Big Question

What is there to be done about Volkswagen in the United States?

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Captain Muppet
Captain Muppet
28 days ago

“Everyone in Europe wants to know how VW is going to save itself…”

My data doesn’t agree with this. I just asked 6 other European automotive engineers and none of them cared about VW, not even the one that owns a VW.

We’d all take a 10% pay cut to keep our jobs, but we’d all only stay as long as it took to find a better job. Which I suspect is the plan: have very high numbers of staff leaving without having to lay anyone off.

The rest of lunch we spent talking about the US election. Good luck everyone.

FleetwoodBro
FleetwoodBro
28 days ago

VW, much like GM, squandered a great deal of good will in the last twenty or so years of the twentieth century and on into the twenty-first. Both companies, for reasons I cannot fathom, believed that American consumers would continue to buy under-engineered, relentlessly cost-accounted products even in the face of far superior products from Japan. There is only one way back up the mountain it doesn’t involve stock buybacks, selling off various subsidiaries (if there are any left to sell), or building yet more factories in Mexico. VW is going to have to do the thing that so far they haven’t been able to face: offer products that compete with Toyota.

Horizontally Opposed
Horizontally Opposed
28 days ago

The answer to your question is obvious: We need to find the next “pictured above” individual at VW so many articles can flow.

Xx Yy Zz
Xx Yy Zz
28 days ago

It’s not US specific, but I think VW should react to some of the critiques and change those things that always get brought up, like the window switches of the ID4, or the lack of buttons. And be fast at that.

AlterId
AlterId
28 days ago

Correct and enlighten me because I haven’t really looked at this at all, but hasn’t Skoda been doing very well with Europeans in both consumer satisfaction and sales, which in part is due to offering 95% of the desirable qualities of its VW platform mates at about 85%-90% of the cost? Why not bring Skodas over, building them in Puebla or in Europe and rebadging them to save the cost of establishing a new brand?

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
28 days ago

How much would you be paying for electricity vs what you pay for gasoline and if applicable what might the payback timeline be for a PHEV vs the hybrid you bought?

Spikersaurusrex
Spikersaurusrex
28 days ago

To summarize the statements that have been made here (site, not article) about car companies:

VW – Unreliable, poor product mix – Hosed
Stellantis – Unreliable, poor product mix for NA, may cause erectile disfunction – Hosed
Nissan – CVT, poor product mix – Hosed
BMW – Unreliable, expensive, ugly – Hosed
MB – Unreliable, expensive, overly complicated – Hosed
Ford – Poor quality, just trucks – Hosed
GM – Cancels the good stuff just as it gets popular, meh in general – Hosed
Tesla – “Polarizing” CEO, too many screens, polarizing products – Hosed
Toyota – Perfectly meh appliances – Probably safe bet for future.

Question: What car company do we like?

Last edited 28 days ago by Spikersaurusrex
Waremon0
Waremon0
28 days ago

I like Ford products. Their quality needs to improve but I like their product mix.

Ford has way more than trucks. Like the Maverick, which is a truck. and the Bronco which is based on a truck. And the new Ranger which is not a full-size truck but is still, objectively, a big truck. And the Mach-E.

Wait a second…

I would lump Subaru in with Nissan though the Subaru brand remains stronger.

Toyota has meh appliances but also the GR Corolla, a bevy of new off-roaders, the Supra, GR86, and the new Prius which is less meh than before.

Honda wasn’t mentioned. As far as meh appliances go, nothing describes Honda better.

I like Hyundai/Kia. I don’t think I’d buy one but I like their offerings.

Spikersaurusrex
Spikersaurusrex
28 days ago
Reply to  Waremon0

I have a Maverick and I think it’s great, in spite of the quality issues. I couldn’t think of how to describe Honda. I don’t think I’ve ever driven one. Huh, that’s weird, considering all the brands I’ve driven. I’ve owned a couple Hyundais and driven Kias. They’re pretty average as far as I can tell. The biggest thing they had going for them was price (in my opinion). I was mostly thinking that we can (and do) make all the same arguments about all the car companies. I think all the talk about how dire the situation is for some of them is a bit overblown. Sure, there are real problems, but nothing that they aren’t all facing.

EXL500
EXL500
28 days ago

Honda?

getstoney VII
getstoney VII
28 days ago

Cadillac. It always has been the best, and forever will be. Sure, there might be shared components, but the bang for the buck is unreal.

Cadillac.

Freelivin2713
Freelivin2713
28 days ago

Honda is the best!

Box Rocket
Box Rocket
28 days ago

Question: What car company do we like?

We like Mazda. They’re a bastion of automotive excellence and are punching above their weight (MX-30 compliance car notwithstanding).

Tell your friends.

Mazda needs all the sales they can get.

Admittedly the CX-70 is oddly positioned (and they should have swapped the CX-80 and 70’s names), and they’ve had some (typical) birthing pains with the I6 hybrid setup in the CX-70 & -90.

As for the other stuff: Most is spot-on. Ford’s product selection is actually pretty good. They have some sort of issue with either Final Quality Checks, Assembly, or something slightly up the chain where the otherwise good R&D efforts are having issues being translated into production vehicles.

You forgot to mention Subaru and Honda, who can both have the same description as Nissan. Kudos to Nissan, though, finally: they’re gradually phasing out some of their CVTs, starting with the largest vehicles (pathfinder/qx60 back in 2022ish).

Spikersaurusrex
Spikersaurusrex
28 days ago
Reply to  Box Rocket

I couldn’t (was too lazy to) cover everyone. I actually am glad all these companies exist and give us choices. Mine was more a comment on sometimes feeling like we hate on cars a bit too much unless they’re 40 year old shit-boxes. Also, I think Mazda is pretty awesome and would have bought a 6, except that they cancelled it 6 months before the lease (yes, I leased. 1st and last time) on my Benz was up.

Millermatic
Millermatic
29 days ago

Matt… you might want to re-read Catch-22. It’s really good.

In a nutshell… You’d have to be crazy to want to fly dangerous missions. If you are crazy… you don’t have to fly dangerous missions. The catch is that you have to “apply to be excused for being crazy.” Which a crazy person wouldn’t do. Therefore… applying proves you are, in fact, sane.

Ranwhenparked
Ranwhenparked
29 days ago

Volkswagen and Stellantis seem to be suffering from a similar problem, RE, both want the money that can potentially be earned in North America, but both refuse to build the sorts of vehicles that would actually make them that money and have eurocentric corporate cultures that cause them to ignore anyone trying to tell them different (in the case of Stellantis, they hardly build any vehicles for North America, then wonder why volumes are somehow down)

AllCattleNoHat
AllCattleNoHat
29 days ago

VW had two hybrids in the US – Jetta and Touareg. There is no good reason why they couldn’t make one or all of their cars hybrid far quicker than they indicate beyond not wanting to. VWoA and its decision making non-process has baffled me for decades now.

Matt – Have you asked your parking provider (sounds like you rent a space?) if they plan on offering plugs and if so how much extra it would be? Potential tenants need to indicate their desire for such amenities and back that up by valuing it higher than a space or a home without that amenity. Just like a rental home with a dishwasher and laundry fetches a higher rental rate than the same home without, so will the EV charger situation. If I lost tenants or potential tenants along with extra revenue due to not having a level 2 charger installed in my rentals I’d be looking into it hot quick. But without demand directly indicated to me, I’m probably not going to do it, and neither will most mom and pop landlords. If you bought an EV or PHEV and were looking to move during that ownership period, you would likely not even consider properties that couldn’t fulfill your charging need. It’s not just rental dwellings, it’s also owner-occupied, the cost or difficulty or ability (or perhaps lack thereof) to install a charging solution will take offerings right off the list of potentials.

There’s also nothing intrinsically stopping Ford, Chevy, Hyundai/Kia and whoever else wants to sell EVs from actually going ahead and building out a larger EV charging network. For locations, just get a map of Tesla’s sites and get space across the street or find spaces dead in the middle between the closest two. Obviously make them NACS and allow Teslas to use them as well as anyone else. If i had a Ford EV I’d try to use the Ford Charging Network if it was priced competitively and worked as well as Tesla’s does. Why is everyone just relying on Tesla to increase their network? Tesla has made it clear that it intends to make their system a profit center (as they should). The third party chargers mostly suck (although some ARE improving) but if they had uptime and then demand the cost for juice certainly allows for profits. All charger stations should also have vending machines next to them, there’s no reason not to make another couple of bucks off a soda or a bag of chips, just like the mini-mart at Shell.

M0L0TOV
M0L0TOV
29 days ago

Just have VW sell Cupra brand cars in the U.S. as Volkswagen and call it a day. They have great looks, tech, reasonably priced, and offer a lot of bang for the buck.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
29 days ago

Regarding retrofitting older buildings with chargers… At the very least, they should be able to install standard 120V/15amp power outlets that BEV owners could use to charge in at least some parking spots.

I refuse to believe for a second that offering that is some sort of monumental thing.

And regarding VW and hybrids… don’t they already have some hybrid powertrains already they could use? I know the A6 Jetta had a hybrid option.

And they also already had a plug-in hybrid in the form of the Golf GTE in the past

Why can’t they bring that back into production?

I don’t see why that should be difficult for a company with the financial and other resources VW has.

“What is there to be done about Volkswagen in the United States?”

They need to fix the issues in their current BEVs and get them switched over to NACS.

I also think the ID naming scheme should be gradually phased out in the long run.

Last edited 29 days ago by Manwich Sandwich
Millermatic
Millermatic
29 days ago

It is potentially a monumental thing…. If your panel board doesn’t have room for more circuits. Then you’d need a bigger or a second panel board. Which isn’t cheap. Then there’s the question of your mains…

Cerberus
Cerberus
29 days ago
Reply to  Millermatic

That’s my situation. And running higher amp service would require a 1/4 mile underground run to get to the house.

Will Leavitt
Will Leavitt
28 days ago
Reply to  Cerberus

Do you need higher amp service, though? Typically in houses the total amperage of all the circuits exceeds the current limit on the main — it just means you can’t run every circuit flat-out at the same time. If you schedule your EV to charge starting at midnight, this shouldn’t be an issue. Also, when you install a level-2 charger, you configure it to tell the car how much it can draw. On a Tesla level-2 charger that’s typically 40-60A, but the minimum is 6A, so in a pinch you can put it on a small 240V circuit.

Cerberus
Cerberus
28 days ago
Reply to  Will Leavitt

We’re maxed at 200A and the electrician told us we’re at the limit for circuits.

AllCattleNoHat
AllCattleNoHat
28 days ago
Reply to  Cerberus

You may be able to remove some circuits, i.e. there may be stuff in there that’s not being used or can be combined. Sounds weird I know and I’m not an electrician, but a 200A service is about as high as most people would need or have in most houses up to maybe 6000sq ft, so someone apparently cheaped out on the cabinet instead of spending an extra $40 to have one with more slots for future expansion.

When I saw your original comment I figured you had a 100 year old house with a 100amp service and were already maxing it out with a non-original AC unit, a dryer, etc, stuff that didn’t commonly exist when the house was built. But with 200A and not being able to fit in one more 60A breaker? That shouldn’t happen. Can you add a subpanel and move some of the existing circuits to that?

Cerberus
Cerberus
28 days ago
Reply to  AllCattleNoHat

It’s ~7700 sq ft that has the services of 3 residences. There are 4 panels, most of which had been added last year and the electrician told us we were on edge for power.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
28 days ago
Reply to  Cerberus

If you have at least 100amps of service, you probably won’t need to upgrade it.

And if you have an electric dryer outlet, you can get a ‘smart splitter’ to use that same circuit to charge an EV when the dryer isn’t in use (or vice versa). Here is an example of one:
https://getneocharge.com/products/neocharge-smart-splitter

Cerberus
Cerberus
28 days ago

We’re at 200 and maxed out on circuits.

PaysOutAllNight
PaysOutAllNight
28 days ago
Reply to  Cerberus

That’s what subpanels are for. Another option you may have is to install a larger 200A panel that has more breaker spaces.

(Modern lighting uses far less current than the incandescents that were used to calculate circuit ratings.)

Cerberus
Cerberus
28 days ago

We have sub panels. We don’t have electrical capacity. It’s ~7700 sq ft house that’s basically set up as 3 residences.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
28 days ago
Reply to  Millermatic

Then you’d need a bigger or a second panel board. Which isn’t cheap”

It’s not THAT expensive. I recently did that upgrade for my own house where I upgraded to 200 amps, with a new panel in my house, a new line run to my garage (which involved some underground trenching), a sub-panel to my garage, four 20amp plugs installed in the garage, a NEMA 14-15 installed in the garage and a few other minor things… and all that was around CAD$13,000.

And compared to other things like roof replacements, foundation repairs and other stuff, it’s a relatively cheap thing to do.

And in no way would it truly be ‘monumental’.

Millermatic
Millermatic
28 days ago

You’ve… successfully advertised your privilege.

It’s downright offensive that you don’t seem to think $13,000 might be a “monumental” expense for a whole lot of people.

FYI… my last roof replacement was significantly less than $13K. I’ll assume your house is a lot bigger than mine.

Last edited 28 days ago by Millermatic
Mthew_M
Mthew_M
28 days ago
Reply to  Millermatic

We’re talking about apartment buildings and people who have enough money to earn multiple homes – landlords. And, there was a lot extra involved in that quote that very well may not be involved in a commercial building. 9,000 USD is definitely not a lot to ask from an apartment building.

Millermatic
Millermatic
28 days ago
Reply to  Mthew_M

Respectfully… that was to upgrade a residential panel and install a single charger (and a quad outlet). Now… consider that an apartment may be adding 5-20 charging locations depending on the size of the building.

I guarantee you it’s a lot more than $9k to upgrade a commercial electrical system. It’s far more complex.

This isn’t to say that many landlords can’t afford it. It _is_ to say that people who say “this should be easy to do”… often drastically underestimate the complexity and or cost of the problem.

The basis for my certainty? I’ve designed and overseen the construction of a 220-unit apartment building with underground parking.

And food for thought… it’s unlikely the landlord will be willing to “give” the electricity away if more than a bare handful of these are installed. Which means they will have to be metered separately. Increasing complexity and cost of the system. Or the landlord could install pay-as-you go stations. Which aren’t cheap. And at the end of the day… it all gets billed back to the tenant. One way or another.

Last edited 28 days ago by Millermatic
Mthew_M
Mthew_M
28 days ago
Reply to  Millermatic

Hard = We have to figure out entirely new ways of doing things, we need technology that doesn’t exist, this will take more manpower than there are people living in this town, we have to completely demolish something and build it back up from scratch.

This is wiring. We’re not re-writing the book. Wiring upgrades on homes and buildings are done thousands of times per day across the US. Yes, it costs money. Everything costs money. Also, we don’t really need to concentrate extremely heavily on re-wiring because, as I’m sure you know from your expertise, it’s much, much cheaper to build it in than it is to redo it. They’re already requiring residential homes and 10%-25% of business parking spaces to have electrical capacity for EV charging in California, and have been for years. If just the new 4+ unit complexes across the country were built with charging provisions, before long we’d be approaching a somewhat-adequate supply of units with charging. If only we’d started 5 years ago nationwide.

I’m sure adding a metered 120V/240V outlet tied to the apartment would have added 100s of thousands of $ to a 220-unit apartment build – that likely cost upwards of $50 million. But if even 25% could be electrified, assigned, and metered at a rate that would pay for the electricity and start to pay back on the infrastructure investment, that would be a huge service to the residents, and would be good for the management company as well. It’s long past time this was commonplace.

Millermatic
Millermatic
28 days ago
Reply to  Mthew_M

Of course it should be commonplace. Of course it’s easy to put it in new construction (but it still adds cost). But “should” doesn’t mean much.

The vast majority of existing housing stock will need to be upgraded. This is not a small task. It will happen… but it will take time.

And building new is hardly the solution. Or more accurately… it’s a small part of a much larger solution. Renovating existing buildings is far more environmentally responsible than tearing down and rebuilding. So… yes. We DO need to concentrate on re-wiring.

I’m not sure what you people are arguing about. These changes will be done. It will be required by building and green codes (where it isn’t already). It will take years and cost quite a bit.

Last edited 28 days ago by Millermatic
PaysOutAllNight
PaysOutAllNight
28 days ago
Reply to  Millermatic

Your last roofing job was certainly quite some time ago. Roofing prices are already crazy lately, and might get a lot worse soon.

Millermatic
Millermatic
28 days ago

About 8 years ago. Not that long ago for a roof replacement.

But careful with your cost assumptions. It would still be less than $13K if I had it done next week. (I say this with complete confidence… as I work in the building industry).

Why? Simple. I live in a 100-year-old bungalow. It’s small. The roof shape is simple. The entire roof area is under 1000sf and it has fairly cheap asphalt tiles (just over $1/sf).

If I lived in Florida in a 3,500sf single story house with terracotta tiles? Or had a standing-seam metal roof? Then it would be serveral times more. But those roofs will also last several times longer than mine.

PaysOutAllNight
PaysOutAllNight
28 days ago
Reply to  Millermatic

So you’re very much below the average for roofing costs. That is fortunate for you.

I’m fortunate enough to have rental properties, and also purchase homes for renovation and resale.

For a typical 1970’s two story suburban house with a very simple roof shape, $13,000 isn’t much more than the average quote for asphalt shingles I got recently. Ten years ago, it was about half of that.

(If you only considered the “glossy brochure” roofing companies, $13,000 was a normal quote ten years ago! Thankfully I know some contractors who put their money into their tools instead of their marketing brochures whose rates are about half of the glossy lot.)

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
28 days ago
Reply to  Millermatic

“It’s downright offensive that you don’t seem to think $13,000 might be a “monumental” expense for a whole lot of people.”

Yeah right. It was “Privlege” that got me the money for the upgrade and not me working full time and saving for it.

That’s one of the dumbest takes on “Privilege” I have encountered. Fuck off with that bullshit.

And it’s was CAD$13,000… which is about US$9300. Yeah it’s still a decent amount of money, but not insurmountable for someone who works and saves.

Privilege my ass…

And FYI… I had to get my roof done too probably far more recently than you! And it was more like an CAD$18K job at current prices.

I had to go into debt for that one because “privilege” didn’t magically pay for it.

Last edited 28 days ago by Manwich Sandwich
Millermatic
Millermatic
28 days ago

Sigh. I work for my money, too. Very hard.

And I can afford a $13,000 roof job. Because I’M FUCKING PRIVILEGED enough to have gotten a good education, have a good job, a stable family, and, oh, I’m a straight white male living in America.

I’m not begrudging you your hard work or accomplishments. I AM pointing out that you are being grossly insensitive (unaware?) of the fact that $13,000 is a prohibitively large amount of money to some people. Who, like you, also work very hard… but haven’t had your good fortune.

NosrednaNod
NosrednaNod
28 days ago

My experience has been you need a lot less charging capacity than you think you need if you charge whenever your car is idle. Having said that, the Europeans have a leg up on us in the US with their 240V circuits. But since the electricity come into your panel at 240V, you don’t need that much work to get a decent charging situation.

Also, with LED lights and more efficient appliances, many homes have unused capacity.

Scruffinater
Scruffinater
29 days ago

How is it possible VW will not be able to offer any hybrids in North America until 2027?! And then only 1!!! That feels criminally negligent at this point.

You put up with VW vehicular shenanigans when it’s a GTI or golf R or phaeton or passat W8… you know, something with *personality*. You don’t put up with it for thoroughly meh middle of the road crossovers.

VW looks thoroughly cooked in North America. I had no idea their hybrid strategy was still completely theoretical. I hope they don’t go away, but not sure how that works with out some hybrids right freaking now.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
28 days ago
Reply to  Scruffinater

“How is it possible VW will not be able to offer any hybrids in North America until 2027?!”

Yeah especially in light of the fact that they already developed it… with the Golf GTE being on sale since 2014 to the present (but just not in North America) using an engine that I’m fairly sure is already US-emissions compliant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Golf_Mk7#Golf_GTE

The Stig's Misanthropic Cousin
The Stig's Misanthropic Cousin
29 days ago

An obvious solution is to stop trying to sell the current lineup in the US market and focus entirely on Scout. VW’s current lineup seems to be reasonably popular with European and Chinese buyers; I’m not sure why anyone would expect the same lineup to be popular with US buyers. It isn’t surprising the Atlas and Tiguan are VW’s best sellers here. Scout could be very successful given they are focusing on the kind of vehicles Americans prefer. My only concern is that VW swung hard and whiffed on its current EV lineup; is there any reason to believe they will do any better with Scout???

Also, does the Catch-22 comparison really apply here? I read that book many years ago, but from what I recall the issue was that Yossarian could only stop flying dangerous missions if he was proven to be insane, but he could only prove he was insane by showing a willingness to fly dangerous missions. The number of required combat missions increased not because he was successful but because he was still alive. I guess it applies since VW has proven its own insanity by continuing to sell the same unpopular vehicles and expecting better results. VW could prove they are sane, but that would involve admitting they are dead in the US market and giving up.

Last edited 29 days ago by The Stig's Misanthropic Cousin
Jonee Eisen
Jonee Eisen
29 days ago
Reply to  Matt Hardigree

Volkswagen has great brand recognition in America. I can’t see them phasing it out to replace it with something no one’s ever heard of. Rebadging vehicles they already have under their umbrella as VWs makes much more sense.

The Stig's Misanthropic Cousin
The Stig's Misanthropic Cousin
29 days ago
Reply to  Jonee Eisen

Brand recognition can go both ways, though. Based on the comment section and VW sales figures, VW doesn’t have the best reputation at the moment. I think VW might be better off starting something new.

It also doesn’t help that VW’s most recognizable vehicle is the air-cooled Beetle. I presume I am not the only one who thinks of VW’s classic vehicles first and their modern vehicles second (honestly, I sometimes forget VW still sells vehicles here). This will not help sell EVs.

Also, lack of brand recognition hasn’t hurt Tesla or Rivian.

Jonee Eisen
Jonee Eisen
28 days ago

Well, Rivian is not exactly selling like hotcakes and it took years for Tesla to establish brand recognition. Volkswagen has been around forever. It would be nuts for them to completely rebrand. Look at what happened when Datsun rebranded as Nissan here. It was a long and painful transition that maybe never really worked out. This may be a difficult time for VW, but they’re still a brand everyone has heard of and, I think in general outside of enthusiast comment sections, many people have a positive connection to for the most part. That’s enough to at least try and turns things around as Volkswagen. The name isn’t irreparably tainted.

The Stig's Misanthropic Cousin
The Stig's Misanthropic Cousin
29 days ago
Reply to  Matt Hardigree

I like the idea of phasing out Volkswagen in favor of Cupra. I see the Volkswagen name as more of a liability than an asset at this point, at least in the US.

This makes me think of when the New Beetle was released. I talked to several people who expressed concerns about whether the New Beetle would be safe since the engine is in the back and whether the heater would work since is air cooled. These people were surprised when I said it was front engined, water cooled, and basically a Golf with a Beetle-shaped body. Name recognition is great, but it can give buyers a false impression. I suspect false impressions are particularly strong with the Volkswagen name since their classic cars were far more popular and recognizable than their new cars.

Rob Schneider
Rob Schneider
29 days ago

If I remember correctly, Yossarian’s issue was you not only had to be insane to get out of flying the missions, but you also had to ask to not fly them. And the act of asking proved you weren’t insane. That was the catch.

It’s been decades since I read it, but I remember it being a pretty funny read. I should read it again. That and some Douglas Adams. Maybe a few of the Fletch books from Gregory McDonald, too.

The Stig's Misanthropic Cousin
The Stig's Misanthropic Cousin
29 days ago
Reply to  Rob Schneider

That sounds right. It has been a while since I read it (I think that was in the ’90s). I might have to reread it as well.

Ranwhenparked
Ranwhenparked
29 days ago

The Volkswagen name isn’t going anywhere, it was VAG’s top performing brand in North America in 2023, sales up 9.6% over 2022 to 329,000, outsellng Dodge, Chrysler, Buick, Lincoln, Cadillac, Mitsubishi, as well as Volvo, Acura, and Audi, and coming in just barely behind Lexus. Yes, they could be doing an awful lot better, but they’re not really terminal, as long as they keep selling SUVs and crossovers, they’ll keep a foot in the door. A pickup truck would really help, but instead we got an expensive quasi-retro minivan with mediocre specs

BOSdriver
BOSdriver
29 days ago

It is wild that VW won’t have a hybrid option for the Atlas until 2030 or later. I am pretty sure I remember that the original concept was launched with the idea that a PHEV powertrain was going to be part of the lineup from the beginning.

Drive By Commenter
Drive By Commenter
29 days ago

VW’s EV’s are worse Tesla copies. At least a Model Y has four individual window switches for the driver to control. Say what you will about Tesla pushing everything to the touchscreen. It at least is responsive and predictable. I’ve never caught it out not responding quickly. Add in how junky CCS chargers can be and it’s no wonder a vehicle with half-baked tech relying on an unreliable DCFC network is not selling without discounts.

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