Home » Hybrids Are So Normalized That People Are Just Buying Them By Accident

Hybrids Are So Normalized That People Are Just Buying Them By Accident

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There’s no action better fit to remind you of your age than consuming a diet primarily of cookies, booze, and cookie-themed booze* for a few days. Another surprisingly good way to count how many trips you’ve made around the yellow dwarf at the center of our solar system is the dissolution of certain prejudices.

Are you old enough to remember when large swathes of the population thought that hybrids were some sort of left-wing, Hollyweird conspiracy to neuter America’s manhood? The Morning Dump remembers. Times, they are a-Changli.

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Tesla is a company that’s become political in nature, and the symbol of that change has been the Cybertruck. Do you want more proof that the market has changed? Tesla decreased its contract with a supplier of cathode material for the 4680 cell used in the truck by 99%!

Chinese automakers exported a ton of EVs, and the biggest importer might surprise you if you haven’t been to Texas recently. And, speaking of surprises, it looks like Detroit is going to have two separate newspapers again.

Hybrids Are The New Normal

2026 Hyundai Pallisade Preview
Photo: Hyundai

If I’ve learned anything over the last few years, it’s that moving the Overton Window has been less about slowly appealing to people in the middle and more about trying to normalize an extreme point until enough people shift halfway in that direction. This is often far from ideal, from a little-d “democracy” standpoint, but it’s just the way it works right now.

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As someone who cares about the environment and drives enough electric cars to know that they’d work for a lot more people than currently own one, I’m a little troubled by the likely flattening of EV demand next year. Some of this is a price thing, as automakers prioritized the wrong vehicles. Some of this is infrastructure. Some of it, sadly, is the politicization of electric cars.

If there’s one positive outcome of this, it’s that hybrids, once looked down upon as an emasculating toy for the Larry Davids of the world, are now just normal. [Ed Note: It helps that plentiful and affordable hybrid offerings these days don’t look like jellybeans, they’re big enough for the US consumer, and they offer a really nice driving experience. -DT].  I’ve been writing about the year/decade of the hybrid for a while, and a lot of that was based on the idea that people will make logical decisions and that, for many people, a hybrid is the most logical route.

There’s a fun read in Bloomberg this week that’s basically making the point that hybrids are just another car for people, and many of them don’t even give it a second thought:

It’s also increasingly difficult to discern a hybrid from a solely gas-powered model, said Scott Hardman, assistant director of the Electric Vehicle Research Center at the University of California at Davis. Carmakers today often don’t even label a hybrid as such. Consider Toyota’s RAV4, one of the best-selling vehicles in America. The 2026 version of the SUV comes in six different variants, all of which include an electric motor and a gas tank.

“A hybrid is just a regular car now,” Hardman said. “You can buy one by accident.”

Kunes, the Midwest dealer, said most of his customers don’t pay much attention to how the vehicle propels itself; they’re just looking for the most affordable option. “People don’t necessarily come in looking for a hybrid vehicle,” he explained, “but they don’t mind taking one.”

Because vehicles like the Sienna and Camry are now hybrid-only, the technology is now reaching parity with purely gas-powered cars on average, although vehicle-to-vehicle hybrids tend to be slightly more expensive.

This is a great outcome for hybrids and for the environment. Are environmentalists celebrating this? Some are, probably, although the loudest people (primarily on BlueSky) are now suddenly anti-hybrid, because politics makes people insane.

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Tesla Cuts Order From $2.9 Billion To Just $7k

Tesla Cybertruck 2025
Photo credit: Tesla

If you think you’re having a bad day, imagine being the person who negotiated the deal between South Korean battery supplier L&F and Tesla for nearly $3 billion in high-nickel cathode material. That $3 billion deal is now, according to a recent filing, just $7,400.

These materials were supposed to be used for Tesla’s supposedly inexpensive 4680 cell. So what happened? This Reuters article floats a couple of theories:

Tesla CEO Elon Musk unveiled a plan in 2020 to mass-produce the 4680, a less expensive battery that he said would help it make a small, compelling $25,000 electric car that was fully autonomous within about three years from then.

However, as EV demand slowed and Tesla struggled to ramp up production and development of the 4680 cells, the company ultimately did not need as much cathode material from L&F as initially anticipated, analysts said.

The postponement (or cancellation?) of the $25,000 Tesla is a big reason, but the more immediate cause might be the market failure of the Cybertruck, which is the only vehicle using the cells. The Cybercab was also supposed to use 4680 cells, so I’m not sure what this means for Tesla’s expectations for that vehicle.

Mexico Was China’s Biggest EV Export Market In November

Claudia Sheinbaum Campaign Rally In The State Of Mexico
Photo: DepositPhotos.com

The renegotiation of the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA) is going to be the most pivotal test of Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum’s leadership, at least as it relates to the car market.

So far, Mexico has done well in dealing with a sometimes difficult-to-read White House. It’s also managed to use the tension between the United States and China to its advantage.

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Currently, it makes cars and parts for the United States, while also being able to import cheap Chinese cars and EVs. According to this Bloomberg article, Mexico was actually the biggest importer of Chinese-made EVs in November.

China’s EV exports to Mexico in November rose 2,367% y/y to 19,344, the highest among all nations or territories, according to data from China Customs.

Obviously, this isn’t usual, as most Chinese EVs go to other Asian countries and Europe.  I haven’t been able to find good reporting on why this happened, so I’m open to an explanation. China has huge overcapacity issues, but I think this might be a weird quirk of delivery.

Currently, the BYD Explorer No.1 RoRo ship, with a capacity of 7,000 vehicles, is in port in Mexico, and the BYD Shenzen, which can carry 9,000 vehicles, just left.

The Detroit Free Press And The Detroit News Are Two Papers Again

Freep Cover Large
Photo: The Detroit News

There aren’t many cities in America that have two flagship papers these days. I remember growing up with the Houston Post and the Houston Chronicle. Detroit is one of those cities, although a Joint Operating Agreement (JOA) for the last four decades has seen the papers operating thanks to a lot of shared resources.

That agreement is done, now, and so Detroit will have two independently operating newspapers in the new year. Did the JOA work? Here’s a Detroit News article on it, arguing that it did:

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Bitterly contested in court when it was first proposed in 1986, the Detroit joint operating agreement remains a subject of debate over whether it was a success, although its primary stated goal — preserving two editorial voices — was fulfilled.

“Ultimately, what it intended to do was to keep two papers in Detroit,” said the Poynter Institute’s Kelly McBride, who advises news organizations on best practices. “So yeah, I guess that means it was successful. Clearly, I don’t think Detroit would have two papers now if the (joint operating agreement) had not existed.”

But McBride and former editors of both papers said it’s difficult to separate the role of business partnerships in the survival or death of newspapers compared to the existential loss of funding widely blamed on digital advertising.

If you live in Detroit and have been missing a Sunday edition of the Detroit Free Press, get excited.

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

Here’s Nancy Sinatra and Lee Hazelwood with “Lady Bird” for no obvious reason.

The Big Question

Is there a car prejudice you once held that you’ve let go of?

*My brother-in-law and I polished off a bottle of this. No regrets.

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Topshot credit: Toyota; DepositPhotos.com

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Cars? I've owned a few
Member
Cars? I've owned a few
19 days ago

Electric Vehicle Research Center at the University of California at Davis

I didn’t even know that existed! I grew up in Davis, and in the mid-70s went off to college at UC San Diego.

My first job out of college was as a police beat reporter at one of the two (small) daily papers in my hometown. This was in 1977. Each paper had its own press shop and distribution network. It was pretty competitive. The paper (the Davis Enterprise) competing with the one I worked for (the Davis edition of the Woodland-based Daily Democrat) was really the local one. But they made the effort to print a different edition for the Davis subscribers.

Both papers still exist, but the Davis edition of the DD is dead, and both are sad shells of their former selves. Back in the day, we’d meet up for drinks on paydays/Friday nights. And we jokingly referred to the Davis Emptyprise and the Daily Democrap. Sadly, that was prophetic.

Happy New Year everyone!

Tbird
Member
Tbird
20 days ago

When young we had the Pittsburgh Press and Pittsburgh Post Gazette, one published in the evening, the other the morning. I think the Press died 25 years or so ago, but the Scaifee owned Trubune Review has somewhat taken its place, with a suburban bent.

We own 2 hybrids, a ’14 Camry I drive and my daughter has an ’08 Prius. I will no longer buy a daily that is not a HYBRID/PHEV or full EV.

PlatinumZJ
Member
PlatinumZJ
20 days ago

Have hybrids become normalized, or do people just not know what the heck they’re buying? A coworker recently went car shopping and nearly bought a Camry until someone explained hybrids (this coworker explained that they do not want “them $5,000 batteries they’re forcing on us that have to be replaced in five years”). Some of my other coworkers can’t even tell you the model of the car they just bought.

Bjorn A. Payne Diaz
Bjorn A. Payne Diaz
20 days ago
Reply to  PlatinumZJ

 or do people just not know what the heck they’re buying

It’s this. People are dumber than ever. Maybe they truly don’t care, but that still doesn’t mean they shouldn’t know the name of the largest depreciating asset they will ever buy. That’s a thing for very wealthy people to do. Not people working in an office.

Mike McDonald
Mike McDonald
20 days ago

As to hybrids, I have been driving them and saving tons of cash for about 20 years now. In the early days, the oil shills used to blast me for *sniff* driving a hybrid, paying the extra money for a hybrid, and being an idiot for having to replace a $4000 battery every couple of years, all of which turned out to be wrong. Currently driving a 2019 Lexus ES hybrid and getting about 40mpg. I think some of you owe me an apology… =D

As to a car prejudice I once held that I’ve let go of? Nah, I still HATE SUVs. I still always think if a man is driving one that his car is in the shop and he has to drive his wife’s car. As to “manly” SUVs, nah, even the best performance SUVs are performance cars on stilts. And this one will stay with me. As I age, I think I will have Irish Alzheimers; that’s when you forget everything but your grudges.

Scaled29
Scaled29
20 days ago
Reply to  Mike McDonald

Respectfully, I don’t agree with you about SUVs. Granted, I drive one, so am I feeling a strong, unreasonable need to share my view and explain myself? Maybe.

First of all, SUV is a blanket term for a huge segment, which doesn’t differentiate between the various types, or subcategories. That’s like saying “sedan”. In that class, you will find everything from BMW 7 series, to Toyota Camrys, to Dodge Chargers, and Nissan Versas, each of which you will most likely connect to different demographics. The SUV segment has just as big differences. You got the legendary Land Cruiser, arguably one of the toughest vehicles, then the Buick Enclave which… must be perfectly fine for it’s purposes, then the Durango, which is basically on the edge of what a SUV can be, and the VW T Roc, a whole different thing altogether. My point is that people drive different SUVs for different reasons, so such an overall evaluation can hardly be made.

As for me, if you were to ask me about what the manliest ones are, I probably wouldn’t choose the “performance SUVs”. In fact, there shouldn’t even be a “manliest SUV” term (even though I still associate various ones with different people, and I have been corrected from time to time. I bought mine from an older lady, and it was unexpected). I would rather think of the “SUV-est SUV”, which would be an off-road capable vehicle. That’s what they were originally intended for, so obviously the new town and city versions won’t be the shining examples.

But still, in the end, they are just practical, so yes, for most it will make more sense to own one than to own a sedan (most is key here, some people probably could do fine with a smaller car, especially for city driving). Plus “real” SUVs have just as dedicated following as other cars, so you will have people owning them because they just like them, plain and simple.

This turned into a rant, but my point is that it’s not that easy to categorize every person who’s driving a SUV.

Last edited 20 days ago by Scaled29
Mike McDonald
Mike McDonald
19 days ago
Reply to  Scaled29

But I do anyway. It’s not like that ever happens with particular brands and models… oh wait, it does. And I have been victim of it as well, so you would think I would get it, but I hate them all. You raise a couple generations in minivans and they think that is what cars are. Does that make me a sort of Luddite? Probably. Now get off my lawn! =)

Tbird
Member
Tbird
20 days ago
Reply to  Mike McDonald

I’m finally seeing an economy drop on my ’14 Camry hybrid at 260k. I now get 35 mpg rather than 40. Not sure what the issue is yet.

I own a ’13 Highlander. It is not a daily, but a roomy vacation machine that has AWD when the weather turns here.

My older parents love the high seating in their Escape. Both find it easier than dropping into the sedan they had previously. As we age, needs and mobility change.

Last edited 20 days ago by Tbird
Westboundbiker
Member
Westboundbiker
19 days ago
Reply to  Tbird

As someone who has owned sedans, wagons, midsize trucks, midsize SUVs, coupes, lifted jeeps, stock jeeps, full size trucks… One thing will stick with me about vehicle entry, as explained to me by a 70 year old neighbor with a lowered s10: “Everyone is wrong about taller vehicles being easier to enter. You have to climb up in. You have to balance, you have to have good leg mobility. You want a seat height you can turn around and lower yourself onto gently, and then swing your legs in.”
And one day my back was bugging me, and I tried his method with my Chevy bolt. Holy cow, it was much easier to achieve with any sort of active pain. I know over time it would degrade the exterior bolstering, but I suppose that’s why the large bench seat has always been in vogue on land yachts for the retirement crowd.

Tbird
Member
Tbird
19 days ago
Reply to  Westboundbiker

My 75 year old mom with 2 hip replacements finds sliding into the Escape far easier than their old Lincoln Town Car or Mercury Montego. She is about 5’5.

Mouse
Member
Mouse
17 days ago
Reply to  Westboundbiker

Depends on what each person’s specific mobility issues or pain points are. After my spine surgery, getting into a lower car was excruciating. Stepping up was fine.

Mike McDonald
Mike McDonald
19 days ago
Reply to  Tbird

I get it. I’m almost 70 and I have bad skeletal sclerosis, but was recently thinking of lowering my Lexus ES, though. My wife drives an Escape, and the seating is okay, but the instability, especially at highway speeds, still frightens me.

Tbird
Member
Tbird
19 days ago
Reply to  Mike McDonald

That’s why I like the Highlander. It is rock steady at speed. A friend has a 2wd 4 cylinder Rav4, and on the highway the AWD Highlander gets damn near the same fuel economy. In a larger, more comfortable and stable package. Just a big V6 loafing at 2000 rpm. The Ford Panther’s were the same, could cruise at 26 mpg on the interstate for days on end just loafing at 2000 rpm.

Bjorn A. Payne Diaz
Bjorn A. Payne Diaz
20 days ago
Reply to  Mike McDonald

As to a car prejudice I once held that I’ve let go of? Nah, I still HATE SUVs. I still always think if a man is driving one that his car is in the shop and he has to drive his wife’s car. As to “manly” SUVs, nah, even the best performance SUVs are performance cars on stilts. And this one will stay with me. As I age, I think I will have Irish Alzheimers; that’s when you forget everything but your grudges.

https://media.tenor.com/EoakiZqC7bIAAAAM/did-we-just-become-friends-brennan-huff.gif

Last edited 20 days ago by Bjorn A. Payne Diaz
Andrew M
Member
Andrew M
20 days ago

Tesla Cuts Order From $2.9 Billion To Just $7k

No. That is not what they said happened.

The source article says:

battery material maker L&F said on Monday the value of its 2023 supply deal with Tesla has shrunk to $7,386 from an earlier projection of $2.9 billion, without providing reasons for the sharp cut.

This is the supplier writing down the value of a contract. It’s not said whether the value was gross revenue or net profit, if the drop in value was due to fewer actual orders / fewer projected future orders or if their profits were lower due their costs being higher than expected. It’s also not clear if they’re talking about retrospectively reassessing the value of the whole deal, or just revaluing future work on the deal (but since it was “to supply high nickel cathode materials to Tesla and its affiliates from January 2024 through December 2025” we don’t know if it should have had any future value – option years perhaps). Given the reported slow sales of the Cybertruck it probably does have something to do with reduced orders, but we don’t know the details.

To report this as “Tesla Cuts Order … To Just $7k” is complete misrepresentation.

Last edited 20 days ago by Andrew M
Manwich Sandwich
Member
Manwich Sandwich
20 days ago

“Hybrids Are The New Normal”
Personally I think automakers should ditch all these 8+speed conventional automatics and replace them with “eCVT” hybrid powertrains. You get better and smoother power delivery, better real-world fuel economy and less complication.

However, as EV demand slowed and Tesla struggled to ramp up production and development of the 4680 cells, “

Noooo… the EV market continues to grow throughout the world. It’s demand for Teslas that have slowed because Musk aligned himself with Crooked Trump and his gang of Deplorables.

And with a premium product, image matters.

And my aligning himself with the Deplorables, Musk has completely screwed the pooch when it comes to his and Tesla’s image.

“Is there a car prejudice you once held that you’ve let go of?”

When I was very young, I used to be prejudiced against wagons because I didn’t like how they looked.

Now I prefer them.

I also used to be prejudiced against the look of older BMWs with the round headlights.

Now I like the look… but still won’t buy BMWs because “German Quality”

I also used to be in the ‘Manual cars only’ camp. But that changed with the availability of hybrids and BEVs as they provide a meaningful improvement in performance and efficiency.

Still won’t buy a conventional automatic vehicle though.

Last edited 20 days ago by Manwich Sandwich
Dottie
Member
Dottie
21 days ago

The “everything has to be a manual” craze that happens when a 20-something gets their first remotely fun car. Manuals do make econoboxes less boring and helps to take advantage of the (non existent) power band a little better but I totally get when people don’t want to be bothered with it. Still more manual options are always appreciated 🙂

Tbird
Member
Tbird
19 days ago
Reply to  Dottie

I would love me an honest to God manual for a fun car. Would I want to daily one in rush hour traffic anymore? No, did that 20 years ago.

In Greece I rented a stick shift Jimney for a day. Pure bliss.

Dodsworth
Member
Dodsworth
21 days ago

I’m old. When I was young a great many adults said they would never trust tubeless tires. Time marches on. I used to hate front wheel drive. I accept it now because what else can you do? Plus, they’re so much better than the original torque steering monsters of the early 70s.

Manwich Sandwich
Member
Manwich Sandwich
20 days ago
Reply to  Dodsworth

I’m in my early 50s and I don’t remember old people not trusting tubeless tires when I was young.

I do recall old people being in the “no fuel injection” camp when I was young.

Dodsworth
Member
Dodsworth
20 days ago

Sigh. I’m older than you.

Tbird
Member
Tbird
19 days ago

I’m 49, and reliable EFI MADE the modern car. They now start every time, without fail, in any weather. Modern fuel injection was the true game changer.

F*** carburators.

Last edited 19 days ago by Tbird
Mike McDonald
Mike McDonald
20 days ago
Reply to  Dodsworth

I’m old too (retiring in one month), and I do remember a tubeless tire fuss, and even some trepidation about radial tires – no one even says radial tires anymore. I don’t think there was much fuss about front wheel drive, and people even liked them more for their handling in the snow around here. I will NEVER TRUST steer by wire, though. Ever.

Dodsworth
Member
Dodsworth
20 days ago
Reply to  Mike McDonald

Congrats on the retirement. It’s awesome!

Cheats McCheats
Cheats McCheats
20 days ago
Reply to  Dodsworth

Nothing changes. I remember the out cry for ABS brakes, tpms, air bags, now we are on to screens and lack of buttons. We just hate change when we see something that already works.

Mike McDonald
Mike McDonald
19 days ago

Let’s not forget the history of corporate astroturfing that car manufacturers have engaged in to prevent new things from being added to cars since they could cut into the profit margin. That accounts for some of that. The screen backlash is real, though.

George Danvers
George Danvers
21 days ago

This happened to a friend of mine who leases BMW’s. When he registered it with the DMV the worker commented that it was a hybrid. My friend had no idea it was a hybrid and initially denied it. That shocked me, as I always thought of him as a car-guy. ( and how does the BMW sales person never mention this? ) Mind boggling.

Dodsworth
Member
Dodsworth
21 days ago
Reply to  George Danvers

You never know what might turn a customer off. I sold cars in the late 1980s and I learned not to mention fuel injection. A lot of customers hated the very idea. I contend that today a lot of people are unknowingly buying three cylinder cars and the sales reps hopes the subject doesn’t come up.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch
Member
Carbon Fiber Sasquatch
20 days ago
Reply to  Dodsworth

As someone who sells 3 cylinder cars, you are correct. When it does come up, I say “lets drive it and decide then” that works 95% of the time

Dodsworth
Member
Dodsworth
20 days ago

My mother had a Geo Metro 3 cylinder. It was a ball to drive. Last year I almost pulled the trigger on a Buick Envista. The engine was a pleasant surprise. Sorry for the ungodly hours you have to put in.

Urban Runabout
Member
Urban Runabout
21 days ago

The last time I bought something by accident was when I bought two cans of Campbells Potato Soup instead of Campbells Cream of Mushroom Soup.

I can’t imagine spending $40K+ on something “by accident”

“car prejudice”

I used to think that green and brown cars were ugly and that silver cars were cool.

I guess I’m a liberal because I like colored cars now.

Last edited 21 days ago by Urban Runabout
Manwich Sandwich
Member
Manwich Sandwich
20 days ago
Reply to  Urban Runabout

I guess I’m a liberal because I like colored cars now.”

And possibly gay too!!!

Urban Runabout
Member
Urban Runabout
20 days ago

Definitely gay. Just ask my Husband.

Vetatur Fumare
Member
Vetatur Fumare
21 days ago

I went and read more about the Tesla battery situation and coincidentally found out that Tesla already cancelled the cheapo version of the Cybertruck after only five months on the market – which is quicker than I think anyone expected, but I remember opining that the Cybertruck RWD would end up the rarest version by far. In the end, the Founder’s Edition will probably be the most common one. Bwahahah.

Vetatur Fumare
Member
Vetatur Fumare
21 days ago

Hazlewood’s Cowboy in Sweden is my jam. And I’d Rather Be Your Enemy is a most excellent break-up song.

MaximillianMeen
Member
MaximillianMeen
21 days ago

A couple of automotive prejudices I’ve overcome:

  • “No replacement for displacement” – I used to think V8’s were the only true path to performance. After driving an Infiniti with a VQ35 and now a Volvo S60 and Mini Cooper each with turbo 4’s, I’ve learned that sufficient power for public roads doesn’t require a car that gets 12 MPG.
  • I previously had nothing but disdain for FWD cars. My Mini is now the funnest car I’ve ever owned.
Turn the Page
Member
Turn the Page
21 days ago

My car prejudice that I’ve let go is that I have to do 100% of the maintenance and repairs myself. Age and physical capability have been the primary drivers of that change.

Kevin Rhodes
Member
Kevin Rhodes
21 days ago

There was a time I thought hybrids were crap. I was wrong – every “normie” boring autotragic transportation device should be a hybrid at this point, there is very little reason not to. Though Toyota/Ford should really just give out free licenses to use their already cross-licensed tech, as the “HSD” it is by far the best, simplest, solution. No need to reinvent the wheel for that.

Turn the Page
Member
Turn the Page
21 days ago

“There’s no action better fit to remind you of your age than consuming a diet primarily of cookies, booze, and cookie-themed booze* for a few days.”

Right there with you, Matt. I’ve spent the last few consuming primarily Asbach Schnapsbohne and Edel Kirschen, Domino Stein, Lebkuchen, and Glühwein or Bailey’s. It’s been a great holiday!

Taargus Taargus
Member
Taargus Taargus
21 days ago

Some others have mentioned this, but I’m slowly beginning to accept Nissan as a manufacturer of things that arent outright shit. As dumb of a vehicle as my in-laws Pathfinder is, it’s actually pretty well put together and a pretty nice car overall. The “Rock Creek” nonsense is pure 10s Nissan, but hey, it was never going to be perfect. And in green it’s actually pretty good looking. I’ll never recommend a 3row SUV over a van, but if I hit my head just right, I could see myself singing its praises.

The most recent iterations of the Sentra, Altima, Rogue, etc. are rather competitive. Far better than the garbage that Nissan was peddling 5-10 years ago.

Knowonelse
Member
Knowonelse
21 days ago

They NEED to hybridize the large sprinter-scale vehicles and not just for my selfish boondocking camper reasons as they are much more efficient for local deliveries.

Andreas8088
Member
Andreas8088
20 days ago
Reply to  Knowonelse

1000% yes. It’s one of the things keeping my boondock camper build in a toyota sienna rather than something a bit bigger.

M SV
M SV
21 days ago

I’m not sure I’ve completely let go just recognized that there is value in some vehicles that I didn’t see alot in before. I’ve never had a problem with hybrid or evs but their costs I’ve seen as problematic. Hybrid has been there for a while especially as it fixes the cvt issues and makes cars drivable and ev is just about there or there in some cases as far as value but still highly dependent on situations. There are a number of vehicles I thought were ugly and pointless in from 90s to late 00s that I now look at as decent looking especially compared to many of the things newer then them. The biggest irony is the first gen Highlander I hated it when I first saw it though it was pointless. Especially compared to rav 4 or 4runner. But I’ve come to see it as a 00s era Japanese gem having a lot of the same design language of other Japanese vehicles of that era that we didn’t get. And also see how a cuv can be done right. I just wish the Toyota engineers that designed it would have word with current Subaru engineers. Subaru i went the other way on I used to just think ok fine the ones I’ve had in the past were ok everyone I know with them loves them. But the one I currently deal with I despise and it’s made me despise all the newer ones. Perhaps similar to Nissan past 06 although I think the leaf can be a decent value for certain scenarios.

FormerTXJeepGuy
Member
FormerTXJeepGuy
21 days ago

Was back in Houston for Christmas seeing my wife’s family, and we snagged a new Camry Hybrid from National as our rental. We did 279 miles (per my rental agreement that I’m reviewing now) and only went through half a tank of gas during the week. I think it was about 5.5 gallons of fuel at fill-up which means we averaged 50.7mpg during the week there. On some drives I saw 68mpg or more.

It still felt great getting back in my Accord 2.0T when we got back- more comfortable, more power (though the Hybrid Camry wasn’t lacking), and better handing, but I have feeling I’ll be reaching for these as rentals whenever I see them for the foreseeable future.

Bags
Bags
21 days ago

We had a Malibu that we drove for about 1000 miles around Montana and Yellowstone a couple months ago – was really hoping for a new hybrid Camry but Bozeman seems to have older vehicles stocked at the airport. I knew we were going to be putting down a ton of miles and gas isn’t cheap out there. At least the Malibu got better MPG than the F-150 they tried to get me to take.

PresterJohn
Member
PresterJohn
21 days ago

Yes I remember the hybrid hate well. It’s so far off now it’s very strange to think about. Really, I think there are parallels to the BEV debate now.

Back then, hybrids were marketed as a “save the planet” type thing which led to backlash. Celebrities who would usually be rocking Land Rovers or German luxury tooling around in Priuses didn’t help. We learned nothing, and did the same thing with BEV. Instead, we need positive marketing to emphasize why it’s better than what people have. And not trying to blow smoke up their asses when it’s not better for certain use cases. Like Matt says, EVs can work for lots of people, market to them and tell them why it’s better!

I’m not sure if this counts as a prejudice, but over time I’ve moved into the “there are no bad cars, only bad matches with a use case” camp. It’s really all about defining your 100% requirements (no, not 99% requirements) and finding things that match.

CivoLee
CivoLee
21 days ago
Reply to  PresterJohn

It’s said that new ideas always go through 3 stages:

RidiculeHostilityAcceptance
We’re at 3 for hybrids but still at 2 for EVs.

Last edited 21 days ago by CivoLee
StillPlaysWithCars
StillPlaysWithCars
21 days ago
Reply to  CivoLee

It doesn’t help that governments started rolling out mandates about EVs. No one likes being told what to do in that fashion and the fact that the cheapest EV at that time was still a pretty penny didn’t help their case.

PresterJohn
Member
PresterJohn
21 days ago

Yep that didn’t help either, and predictably these mandates are being devastated by cold, hard consumer reality. Selling mass market products that people don’t want is hard, folks.

Last edited 21 days ago by PresterJohn
Harvey Firebirdman
Member
Harvey Firebirdman
21 days ago
Reply to  PresterJohn

I think South Park from years ago about hybrid drivers was spot on for the time. You had a lot of people that were insufferable about driving them and saving the planet acting like they were better the others. I used to think the same thing but hybrids have obviously have changed much from the ugly prius’ of back then and are everywhere now.

PresterJohn
Member
PresterJohn
21 days ago

Yeah the blame in many ways rests with how it was marketed, and the people that marketing appealed to proceeded to turn off large segments of the population. In a product that governments wanted to be mass market. It’s marketing malpractice.

Imagine an alternate universe where hybrids were instead pitched as the technological marvel that they were and are. I can see ads that show comparable horsepower with huge gas savings. Or EV ads that show how quiet they are compared to luxury ICE vehicles. The list goes on and on.

Scaled29
Scaled29
20 days ago
Reply to  PresterJohn

“It’s a marketing malpractice.”

Or was it Big Oil intentionally sabotaging them?

*Puts on tinfoil hat*

Kleinlowe
Member
Kleinlowe
21 days ago

Uuuugh, I hated that South Park nonsense.

“Look how fast my car is!”
Oooh ahh!
“Look how big my truck is!”
Oh! Yay!
“Look at how luxury my interior is!”
Wow! Wonderful!
“Look at how efficient my hybrid is!”
Boo! You suck! Go away! Smuggy smuggy smug! It’s your fault I’m setting your car on fire! Loser! Asshole!



Disphenoidal
Member
Disphenoidal
21 days ago

I’ve (mostly) let go of my CUV prejudice. They’re not my preference, but for most people they’re fine. People love to harp on differences in driving dynamics or economy between a sedan and CUV, but they really are minimal now. Whatever dynamic advantages a sedan has are not relevant to a RAV-4 owner who would otherwise have a Camry.

Hoser68
Hoser68
21 days ago
Reply to  Disphenoidal

I hated CUVs. Until I broke a screw in my back and drove a Corolla as a rental.

Today’s cars have huge as brakes (which is great). But to be on a car, it means that they end up with rubber band tires. Frost heaves and 205/55/16 tires (4.5″ sidewalls) is not a good combination with you have a screw head wandering around your back. Tehe screw head is gone now, but using a Tuscon (235/65/17 or 6″ sidewalls) was a lot nicer to run over heaves with.

Twobox Designgineer
Twobox Designgineer
21 days ago
Reply to  Hoser68

I have no hardware going on holiday in my body, but I am also a member of the Church of Moar Rubber, having left the Congregation of Bent Rims and Saint Blister-in-the-Sidewall.

Hoser68
Hoser68
21 days ago

Last car I had with +1 rims would make my right leg go numb for a few seconds on any pot hole or frost heave. Wasn’t worth the extra handling to get that.

PS, that leg going numb is what eventually lead to having have a Temu shipment of screws put in my back.

Defenestrator
Member
Defenestrator
19 days ago
Reply to  Hoser68

The brakes are kind of a side effect, but the main reason for the rubber-band tires is aesthetics. People (or at least designers) think big wheels look better, so vehicles get bigger wheels. Brake rotors a couple sizes down would still have ample clamping force and heat dissipation for day-to-day driving. Even more so on hybrids and EVs where regen handles long descents.

TheBadGiftOfTheDog
TheBadGiftOfTheDog
21 days ago

I would say I have had a prejudice about huge screens on the dashboard and backup cameras, but since I use one daily I think that just makes me a hypocrite.

Dan G.
Member
Dan G.
21 days ago

How about the still very active coastal prejudice that anyone not driving an EV or plug in hybrid is a uni-brow, knuckle dragging, neanderthal? No matter how small or efficient the ICE vehicle in question may be in relation to their 5, 6, or 7000 pound electric monstrosities. Which they will replace every 3-5 years to keep up appearances.

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