The Mazda MX-5 Miata has always strictly followed the lightweight sports car ethos born from British roadsters of the ’50s and ’60s: A revvy, simple, naturally aspirated four-cylinder up front, connected to a manual transmission sending power to the rear wheels, nestled in a two-seat convertible body.
The formula works for a few reasons. Its simple nature means there isn’t a lot of weight or complexity involved. Done right, it delivers an incredible balance, which results in a thrilling drive. And because it’s so simple, it costs relatively little to get into, and next to nothing to maintain.
This approach has proved successful for Mazda. The Japanese carmaker has sold well over 1 million Miatas over 37 years and four generations, making the smile-inducing two-seater one of the greatest-selling sports cars of all time.
There was a time, however, when Mazda briefly looked at switching the formula up by adding more weight and power, in the form of a V6 engine. Engineers even went as far as secretly building a prototype. Thankfully, the automaker quickly realized this would’ve just made the Miata worse, not better, and dropped the idea.
The Factory V6-Powered Miata Was Real, For A Moment
Dutch news site AutoRAI.nl recently got a chance to speak with Christian Schultze, the director of research and operations of Mazda Europe, about the Miata’s future. When the conversation drifted towards powertrain possibilities, the publication asked about whether the next Miata, expected to be named the NE internally, might get a 2.5-liter engine (the current Miata has a 2.0-liter engine, so this would be a big step up in capacity). Schultze revealed something I don’t think anyone was expecting: Mazda had already experimented with a 2.5-liter engine, in the form of a V6. From the story:
A 2.5-liter engine sounds appealing, I understand. But interestingly enough, we already tried something like this about twenty years ago. Back then, our engineers built a prototype with a 2.5-liter V6 in their spare time. They did it here in the workshop, purely out of enthusiasm.
Though Schultze doesn’t go into detail about the car itself, 20 years ago would peg this experiment as having happened around 2006, a year after the NC-generation Miata made its debut. There’s no official word on which 2.5-liter V6 was used, but those who know their Mazdas know that the company made a V6 called the K-Series in various displacements up until the early 2000s, the most powerful of which we saw in the states, the KL-DE found in the MX-6, made 164 horsepower and 160 pound-feet of torque. There was also a version that made around 200 horsepower, but it was only sold in Japan.
Compared to the 170-hp four-cylinder found in the NC Miata, this would’ve been a notable step up in performance. But you don’t just get something for nothing, as Schultze pointed out to AutoRAI:
Technically, it was a fascinating project. The problem, however, was the packaging. The engine didn’t fit well under the hood; it was simply too high. The result wasn’t visually appealing. But in terms of the driving experience, it was definitely interesting. That shows that the idea itself isn’t new.
Of course, more power is always good, so it probably wouldn’t have been hard for designers to engineer around the extra height. But a bigger engine also means more weight in the nose. And weight, according to MX-5 engineers, is the ultimate foe. In the case of the MX-5, power isn’t the ultimate goal. It’s lightness. From Schultze:
The real question is: what do you need that 2.5-liter engine for? Is it for the extra torque? Is it for better emissions? Or is it primarily attractive because it’s a larger engine? We want a lightweight engine. A 2.5-liter is by definition heavier than a 1.5- or 2.0-liter. Extra weight up front directly affects balance and steering response. These are precisely the elements that make the MX-5 so special. So it’s not an easy choice.
Weirdly, this might not be the only V6-powered Miata prototype built by Mazda, at least going by Miata.net. Back in 2001, Mazda USA allegedly let Road & Track Magazine drive an NB Miata powered by a 3.0-liter Ford Duratec V6, which it wrote about for a print issue. While the print article never made it out of the magazine’s pages, Miata.net claims the car used RX-7 brakes, an RX-7 transmission, and an RX-7 differential to handle the extra twist.
All of that extra equipment makes sense. Adding a bigger, more powerful engine raises more problems than just weight. Because the car is now faster, it needs more tire, more suspension, and more brake to keep up. All of the drivetrain components have to be beefed up to handle the extra twist, and the body has to be modified to accept a wider track. While all this stuff would likely end up improving lap times, the extra weight would compromise that original roadster ethos that made the Miata so successful.
You could argue a Miata with a V6 is a better car, but it’s definitely a worse Miata. The Miata isn’t great because it’s fast. Anyone who’s driven an MX-5 will admit they are decidedly not fast. Miatas are great because they’re balanced, lightweight, communicative, and cheap to own. Could Mazda engineer a V6-powered Miata that’s also fun? I have no doubt. But it wouldn’t be as fun or usable as the original.
No Shortage Of Aftermarket Firms Can Do It For You
If you somehow come away from the first portion of this article thinking the only thing the Miata needs to be perfect is a V6, I wouldn’t count on Mazda to make it happen. That experiment was 20 years ago, and there hasn’t been any indication since that Mazda will use anything other than a naturally aspirated inline-four for the upcoming NE. But there are a few third-party firms that offer swap kits if you want to make your V6 Miata dreams a reality.
V8Roadsters, a US-based aftermarket parts firm that specializes in Miata engine swaps, makes swap kits for all generations of Miata that include new subframes and engine mounts, designed to accommodate General Motors’ LFX V6, which was originally used in cars like the Camaro and the Cadillac ATS. UK-based firm Rocketeer makes parts to fit Jaguar’s AJ30 V6, which appeared in cars like the XJ, the XF, and the Lincoln LS. Pay them enough money, and they’ll build you a whole resto-modded NA or NB, complete with a V6 swap.
Me, though? I think I’ll stick with the original formula.
Top graphic image: Mazda
This might seem like sacrilege to some people, but I don’t know why Mazda couldn’t just stretch the Miata platform to make a sport coupe or even sedan? Then they could have more performance-oriented vehicles in their lineup without having to spend as much developing new platforms.
Mazda could have two main lines: CXs for crossovers to pay the bills, and MXs for performance cars. Imagine a new MX-3, MX-6 or even Mazda3 based off the Miata platform. It would be glorious!
I flat don’t fit in nc or nd Miata’s. I can comfortably drive na and nb cars.
I just need something between an nc and rx8 to be comfortable.
They did that for a few years. It’s called the RX8.
They did. That’s exactly what the RX-8 was. And if it hadn’t been saddled with that goofy Renesis engine, it would be a solid offering.
That said, there’s a robust LS-swap infrastructure for that car.
Ok, then they should do that again, this time with a better engine and a larger trunk or liftback hatch.
To me, putting a V8 in an RX-anything is like swapping the soul out of a beautiful woman with some bimbo because she talks back to you too much. Maintenance comes with the territory of rotaries.
What about the little turbo 3 from a Toyota GR Corolla?
Going back further in time, Ford once built a secret V6 Miata, then learned it was super rad. This was on the NB platform with RX7 parts and a custom hood with a big scoop. It was featured in Road & Track magazine.
https://www.miata.net/news/v6.html
It’s the Japanese lotus. Take the British lightweight convertible sports car, add Chapman lightness and Japanese reliability – legend. Unfortunately, I’m both too tall and wide to fit.
Well it was still probably better than the MGC
Don’t know about that V6, but our J-swapped NB is claimed only about 60 lbs heavier than OEM, with a noticeable increase in midrange power. Um, and top end as well as a matter of fact. Gauges still work. Always thought Mazda would come out with something similar.
I don’t know why they tried an underwhelming V6 that would obviously weigh more than the very engine they already used in the larger displacement. The larger displacement could have allowed a taller OD, too, for better mileage.
Did British roadsters rev? My understanding was that they were somewhat delayed pushrod designs, significantly undersquare for tax reasons, and didn’t touch 7k rpm.
Depends which ones you’re talking about and what your criteria are. Lotus liked their rev-happy engines, and have been making roadsters for the better part of a century now.
My son and I had NC Miatas. His was nicely balanced with some tasteful modifications to the suspension, intake, header and exhaust. It was a joy to toss around wherever it went. The one I bought after driving his was a 2.5L Duratec 4cyl swap with a turbo kit. It also had decent suspension, but the power and delivery of the power simply overwhelmed the rest of the car almost all the time except for straight lines. Yes it was fast. But this winter I’m in the process of deleting the turbo kit. It caused overheating at the track and other issues. Losing seat time when your buddies and son are doing laps is not fun.
MX3 1.6 V6 is what I thought would be good
I thought that was a 1.8? Either way, tiny and awesome.
Is there any reason that they didn’t test out the KF or some variant of it? KF is a 2.0L V6. The KF-ZE in particular was 160hp, but it did end production in 2002. There was also the K8… A tiny little ol’ 1.8L V6. I wouldn’t have expected them to try that engine out though.
The KJ-ZEM variant is 2.3L and also a V6 and makes 217hp, but is supercharged. I don’t know what the weights are of any of these engines, but I’d be willing to wager a guess that it’s as heavy as the 2.5L they tested.
After reading a few historical articles here about past GM/Ford malaise era cars, I think that had the Miata been a US car it would have grown to the size of a Zeppelin under their watch.
I’ll say it:
They should have made a rotary Miata
Thanks to the RX-8 sharing the NC platform, it’s an easy enough project to make on your own supposedly. But the FC RX-7 had a convertible option, so you could get a small rotary convertible, I don’t think a rotary Miata would work as well. Another reason people love them so much is because they are super reliable, which this would not be.
Rotaries are plenty reliable. Just don’t turbocharge them or try to eliminate internal oil injection pumps. Non-turbo FCs run fine for a mighty long time, as do SII RX-8s.
I agree. They should make it an optional engine. Let people choose a Miata with either a 4-cyl engine or a rotary. I think they should have done the same with the RX-8: two engine options, a rotary or a turbo-4. For the people who hate the rotary, they can buy a piston-engined car with the fantastic chassis, for those that want a rotary, they can get one too.
The RX-7, too. The name kind of becomes meaningless without a rotary, but who really cares? They definitely would have sold more cars and the 4-cycle would have improved EPA and CAFE numbers.
They could just slap a different badge on the piston cars. Call them MX-7 or MX-8.
That sounds hilariously fun
If there’s a way to get it to pass emissions the rotary range extender out of the MX-30 would be a great place to start.
I’d buy one, I’d have to, rotaries are SICK!
I really wish we had gotten the rotary EREV version here, its one of the few crossovers I could see buying. Mazda had to have known it would have sold better than the EV
My Dad’s Lemons car is a NA Miata with the J35 V6 from a Honda Odyssey. A better miata? Almost certainly not, I absolutely cooked the front brakes (which were swapped in from an NB) last time we made it out on track. It is still (somehow) on the stock transmission which means that Gears 1 and 2 are all but useless on track. It’s pretty much best to just leave it in 3rd, with a shift up to 4th on the back straight of CMP. Haven driven other miata’s around the same track – I will say that balance is not massively impacted, but it’s definitely not the uber-balanced approachable car it started life as.
It is, however, hilariously fast and fun to drive. It feels exactly like a car in Forza/Gran Turismo with all the power mods installed and nothing else.
These problems are shared with any other way to get more power in a Miata, and the answers aren’t that expensive compared to the V6 adapter kits prices.
Brake ducts can be done cheap. A front BBK and a 3.63 diff out of a European 6 speed NB will run you about $1k each. I’m not sure how your lemons car is priced but you can get these done for about half the cost of getting the problematic V6 in there in the first place.
I was going to buy a swap kit from OZ Engineering. Life got in the way for me, then the owner passed.
I love me a good Mazda KL-series V6 – most known in the Mazda 626, MX-6, and the Ford Probe. The Japan-only KL-ZE the article brushed upon is quite an engine with 200 naturally-aspirated ponies, and I could see the appeal of having one under the hood of a Miata. But, yes, it would very much change the dynamics of the car. Mid-engined would be even better.
That said, in 2006 Mazda would have had access to the 3.0L Duratec (which IIRC was KL-derived) as seen in the Mazda Tribute and Mazda6. 220hp versus the 165-170hp in the 2.5L KL-DE for a similar footprint.
That would have made way mote sense—either the 2.5 should have been the 2.0 enlarged or they should have used the 3.0 V6. It’s like they wanted it to suck so they could argue it against the “more powah” guys, but nothing is ever enough for them.
I had a 2.5L Duratec V6 in my 1998 Ford Contour, that was a really nice revvy engine that sounded good too. I’d love a Miata with that engine. Achilles heel of that engine was the water pump, the impellers were plastic and either the vanes would disintegrate or the impeller/shaft connection would break. The 2.5L Duratec would overheat quickly when the water pump died.
The Contour with the V6 was much more fun than it had any right to be.
It was a fun sleeper for sure. Looked mundane but handled great and reasonably fast.
Cool username, I had a MGB too
I’ve heard of people swapping in the 3.0L Duratec in those cars 😀
Putting heavy, bigger engines in sportscars generally ruined them. Everybody knows and loves the MGB – but who remembers there was also the MGC with a heavy lump of an iron inline-six under the hood? It ruined the handling fairly comprehensively. And it’s not just the engine, it’s a vicious circle – more power needs heavier drivetrain bits behind it, bigger heavier cooling bits, bigger heavier brakes, etc, etc.
The right way to do it is to find that bigger, stronger, engine that is also *lighter* – and MG did that too with the MGB V8 with the featherweight Rover aluminum V8 under the hood. But that cost too much (and competed to closely with other British Leyland products) so very few were made.
Definitely the way. LOTS of examples out there where bigger / lighter engines have been swapped in and overall balance of the car remains very strong. You can’t just drop in a new engine and call it a day, but overall all generations have a chassis that welcomes more power if applied right.
I never drove an MGC, but never heard anything good about them. They’re still slow, but all that extra weight sticking out farther screwed the handling and it’s an MGB(C), it’s was never designed for real power or speed and that’s totally fine. I do like the power bulge, though.
No, they are MGC’s. In GT coupe form they were quite nice – I have had a ride in one. They were definitely faster in a straight line – 145hp or so vs. 100, and a lot smoother and quieter than the thrashy four. But ala Douglas Adams – goes like a fish, turns like a cow. Great for the Routes Nationales in France, not so great between English hedgerows or a racetrack. The V8 solved both issues, but at too great a cost.
The Triumph GT6 had much the same issue vs. the Spitfire. Faster in a straight line, but they don’t like corners nearly so much. And way Triumph never made a factory Spitfire 6 – the added weight of the coupe helped the weight distribution enough to make it manageable, if not wonderful.
Same reason there’s no turbo GR86. And the same reason both products still exist and are affordable.
I will agree. (But I will also say I bought a used ’14 BRZ that someone added a turbo to, and it was a hoot to drive.)
I ran one in the One Lap of America when I worked for Toyota and started their OLOA team. Yes, it was a lot of fun. But it was also fundamentally a different car for a different purpose at what would have been a different price. I had bought the first FR-S in the NKY/Cincy area and it is brilliant in the right conditions. 25k mile in 8 months was the result of lots of highway driving, which was not its strong suit. I do lust for a current GR86 just to pack away and drive on occasion, but I don’t have the room for it and its too close in use case to my lightly-modded 128i.
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/05/barks-bites-not-fr-s-per-se/
While I would like more low and midrange (especially midrange) and a taller top gear that more torque would allow, the point of the car is its simplicity and affordability. There’s a point where too much power is either track-only or parking lot bragging for guys with
small, uh, large insecurities as it makes the car less enjoyable and usable. They’re welcome to buy any of the other overpowered cars or do some dumb engine swap/turbo build. Some more power wouldn’t ruin it, but getting a bit is about the same as a lot and I can’t imagine many people settling for the lower rating for about the same cost.There sure should have been though. THAT was a car that desperately needed more power in a way that the Miata never really did. Or at least an engine that was a lot more willing to play than the lump they stuck in it. I think for the GR86 a smaller, but turbo motor would have been ideal. Add some drama to the thing that it very much lacked. I haven’t driven the revised one, but the original was one of the more disappointing test drives I have ever had. Up there with the Stinger.
The new one fixed every issue I had with my first gen other than that the ride is a bit harsh on the highway, but that is the trade-off for phenomenal handling. More power means more cooling, more plumbing, more brakes, more tire, higher loads that drive bigger joints and bushings and, ultimately more weight and cost. If you want to know how this goes, rewind to the 90’s when the Supra, RX-7, and 3000GT were all battling it out and adding more and more content till they were too fat and too expensive.
On the plus side, Toyobaru made the cars relatively easy to modify and open to the aftermarket. So, your turbo 86 dreams are only $10k away ($20k if you do it all right).
They should have done it at the factory. It didn’t need to be a monster like those 90s cars were. The WRX managed to have a turbo in a car with lots more content for basically the same price. ~220hp, but more importantly a much better torque curve, would have improved the car considerably. Tuned old-school with a little lag and a big rush at the top and the thing would have been a whole lot more fun.
Let’s agree to disagree, because my preference is for the lighter and cheaper car, despite the lesser HP, not to mention that the majority of the added weight would be on or ahead of the nose 🙂
If I envision the car you describe, it’s a BMW 2-series.
A turbo car doesn’t need to be heavier and more expensive when done correctly. As I said, a WRX was not more expensive even with AWD and a more commodious body, though it certainly was heavier because of being a lot bigger.
A 2-series is not a GR86 competitor (I owned an M235i, it is a wildly different class of car), though a re-imagined Z3 coupe could be. The GR86 Mk1 was a lovely chassis looking for an engine that didn’t suck. I am not entirely convinced they have fixed that, but as I said, I haven’t driven the revised one. But I am no fan of Subaru engines in general. I am a huge fan of properly done turbos – and historically Subaru HAS been pretty damned good at that. They are the closest thing to a free lunch you can get in automotive engineering, but they have to be done properly.
Kevin, it seems we enjoy similar cars. I raced an M245iR in World Challenge, own a modestly-modded 128i, and had an FR-S, as I think I mentioned, and currently have a Z3 Coupe that’s undergoing a duplication of cylinder count. I’d hardly call a 2-series, especially a 230i, a wildly different class of car from the 86. They’re both FR layout 4-seat coupes. The GR86 is smaller and more simple while the 2-series has a lot more content and comfort. The 128i is kind of the in-between, I suppose, but even with track mods, it lags the 86 in nimbleness and handling by a fair bit. At the risk of digressing, I went from the FR-S to a 335i and then to the 128i, which is a nice balance of weight, power, and comfort among the 3.
Now, back to the 86… I don’t know what practical reality exists where you can add parts, complexity, and power without adding weight and cost. I mean, I’m open to hearing how it’s done, as is every OEM out there, so please enlighten me 😉
Sure, a turbo is more complex. But as I said – the car didn’t need more power, it needed to be more engaging and more fun. It was NOT fun with that grumbling lazy econobox motor. Make the motor *smaller* with a turbo – think Fiata vs. Miata. And then if the owner does want moar powah, as a bonus it’s lots simpler to get it. Crank up the boost and take your chances. 🙂 I owned a Fiata and much preferred it to the original ND Miata. It only made 5hp more stock, wasn’t any heavier, but was a bit quicker and IMHO, a bit easier to drive due to the better mid-range torque, something the original GR86 was seriously lacking. And a little turbo lag adds some drama to the festivities. And again, if you want to go faster, that was just a tune away (defintiely not the case with the Mazda lump either), and the Fiat mill was more than stout enough to handle big boost. I know guys with a reliable 250hp+ out of that little 1.4L, and some crazies with 300+.
I too went from the M235i to a 128i (with the Fiata in-between), and massively prefer it. But neither car is anything like a GR86 – neither is a sportscar in any way! Both prioritize comfort FAR more than any sportscar does. I always called the 2-series a Mustang done right, and there is no universe in which a Mustang and a GR86 are in the same class of car. Vestigial back seats do not make the GR86 any less of a sportscar than a Miata, which is very much it’s direct competition, IMHO. Though as I have said here myriad times, not having a proper coupe/hatch Miata is just stunningly dumb on the part of Mazda, and would broaden that car’s appeal considerably.
I think we’d both enjoy continuing this conversation in person. I understand where you’re coming from 🙂
Minor tidbit that might entertain you. I drove the first Fiata in the US, in FCA’s Chelsea Proving Grounds on the handling track, when I worked in Vehicle Dynamics there. I strongly preferred that car’s handling to the Miatas (the newest ones are better). I personally prefer an NA engine, but I really did enjoy that car.
I suspect so as well. If you are ever in SW FL, reach out through the powers that be here.
That’s really cool – I really liked that car, but sadly I just didn’t fit in it comfortably. I’m very much a turbo guy at heart – lots of Saabs in my past. I too liked the ride handling balance better than the Miata – and MUCH preferred the looks. And the $10K discount I got on the one I bought (“used” with 28 miles on it), LOL.
“You could argue a Miata with a V6 is a better car, but it’s definitely a worse Miata.” 100% this. Miata is about balance and having a great time even when obeying the speed limit and rules of the road. It’s hard to understand until you drive one. There are a ton of ways to make them better, but even something like putting stickier tires on can muck with the balance.
Also, that Top Shot is a twin of my NC. Winning Blue, which is a 2006 only color. In my biased mind, it’s the second best NC color in the US. Competition Yellow beats it out for #1 for me.
Back in the 90’s, there was a company building Miatas with a Ford 5.0 V8. I think they called it the “Monster Miata”.
They still exist, and if I’m gonna ruin a roadster, this is how I’d do it.
I test drove one of those once. An NA with a supercharged 5.0 in it. I had a relatively stock ’92 at the time and was curious so I had to check it out.
I hated it. It felt like it was trying to kill you the entire drive. And not in a fun way. Zero balance to it at all. Just way too much power in a frame that just could not support it in any meaningful way.
This is really not true, since displacement and weight really are not that closely correlated. More important to things like weight are engine configuration (V vs I, etc), material (Cast Iron vs Aluminum), Valvetrain (SOHC, DOHC, OHV) and more like piston/con rod material, config, induction type, and more. Sure generally larger engines weight more, but it is FAR from “by definition”
This is exactly why the Rocketeer V6 swap works so damned well. The AJ30 swap kit is only something like 10-15 pounds heavier than the 1.8 found in the NB, because it’s aluminum instead of the Mazda’s cast iron block. I have seen hundreds of Miata owners add far more weight than that to their cars with cosmetic and interior mods alone.
I wonder if Mr. Schultze was specifically talking about Mazda engines of the day? That is a weird statement.
Not if you take the Duratec 2.5L from a Fusion or Escape… which lots of people have done. The Duratec is just an MZR licensed to Ford. It practically drops right into an NC Miata. It may actually be lighter by virtue of it being the same block with larger displacement.
Definitely this. People have been swapping in certain V6’s largely because the weight penalty is pretty small, or absent.
2.5L 4 cylinder is what I’m referring to. Also used in the Mazda3, Mazda6
Ah yes…they’re even more drop in. Plentiful, and you can easily get the Miata to 200hp without a lot of extra fuss.
I believe the block or head is slightly different, since the 2.5 Duratec sits a few millimeters higher in the engine bay than the 2.0, despite everything else from the NC bolting up directly. AFAIK it still clears everything fine, but I don’t actually know if there is a weight difference or not.
A little research shows that the 2.5 is heavier, but barely. Negligible. 30hp bump.
A stock 2.5 gets the same 170hp rating as the 2.0 due to lower redline but 25 more lb-ft of torque stock. A cam swap and tune gets you 30+ hp from what I’ve heard. It’s still by far the most cost effective reliable power add to the NC, certainly the least hp per pound of weight.
I have one in mine. 2.5L Duratec from LKQ autoparts. Fits fine. I was told the block is the same. Instead of boring it out they just increased the stroke? Which means my pistons are moving further and extra hard on those track days. Good thing the motors are about $400 shipped to the door.
Stroker makes sense. It’s all about the torques!
Is there a typo in the article? How would a 160hp V6 be more powerful than a 170hp NC generation four cylinder? Color me confused.
Power under the curve matters more than peak numbers.
presumably they used the 200-hp version I mentioned later in that paragraph
Ah! Got it!
These days, I have a tough time believing that the Miata is a profitable model for Mazda. Total sales (US) haven’t exceeded 12,000 units in 20 years. Someone at Mazda HQ is insisting they continue to be built, even if it’s a losing proposition. The last thing they need to do is add complexity to the line.
You don’t need to sell 100k units to be profitable if you watch costs and keep the same car in market for a decade.
This. If the Miata isn’t profitable enough, and sports cars all had to be profitable in order to exist, your options south of $50k would be: Mustang? Have fun.
That said, a quick look at the options out there confirms most OEMs haven’t justified a sports car, particularly an affordable one. You have Mazda doing it as Miata is the soul of the company, and you have Toyota doing it since Akio is nuts (bless him) and Subaru is there to spread the load.
The US is not the only place the Miata is sold. And the development costs of the current generation were shared with Fiat. Ongoing production is certainly profitable “enough” globally (once you build the first one, the rest don’t actually cost much to stamp out). But I kind of doubt there will ever be an NE Miata at this point unless people stop being so boring.
I do find it baffling that they have never made a real Miata production fixed-head coupe. THAT would certainly increase sales beyond the additional cost, while adding practicality and refinement. Even on here, it’s amazing how many people say they hate convertibles.
Because every Miata discussion requires pedantry – Mazda did make a real production MX-5 Roadster Coupe, but only 179 examples were made and only for the Japan market. Soon eligible for 25-year imports though!
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/news/meet-the-roadster-coupe-mazdas-japan-only-hardtop-nb-miata-rate-it/
Yes, I know all about those. 179 hand-built examples made for just one market is certainly not my idea of “real production”.
The other thing that the Miata does so well for mazda is parts. Mazda will still to this day sell you a brand new hardtop for an NA/NB. Moreso, with MX-5 Cup and Spec Miata, Mazda Racing has a massive catalogue of Mazda sourced and approved upgrades for their cars that they will happily sell you, and with how often modified and raced their cars are, they likely make a killing on that side of the business.
Also they’re hardly a value from an objective standpoint, low 30’s starting for a tiny car with almost zero practicality. They know it wont sell in CX-5 volumes, so they price their R&D and manufacturing cost into MSRP so they can actually amortize it. Still, even if it’s a slight loss or near break even product, it’s an extremely important halo-adjacent product that gets people into showrooms and gives the brand a really strong identity.
I think there is a bit of a Halo Car thing to the Miata, but I think the other key is that they don’t change them much. We have a 2016 ND and I don’t think the common person would be able to tell much difference between it and a 2026. They are special and are a rarity in the car industry today. They are simple and dependable, easy to work on, reasonable to insure, and efficient, while also being small, fun, easy to customize, available with a stick, and a convertible. It’s only real competition is a preowned Miata.
This, all day long. I was pleasantly surprised at how reliable the NC1 was as my son’s first car. Then I got one. They are inexpensive to own and always fun. It doesn’t get much better then that. I also got broadsided by a Corolla that was going at least 30mph and I walked away with only bruises. The NC took the hit in the passenger door and then drove home fine. The 2017 Corolla was totaled. Of course Insurance totaled the Miata too because they are jerks.
Yeah, I have an NC1 and the ND1 is my son’s. Even though it’s 20 years old, I wouldn’t hesitate to jump in my NC and drive it anywhere. Both cars have been trouble free and there really aren’t a lot of problems with these cars in general.
Marketing cost. Without the Miata to set Mazda apart all they have are ordinary cars that aren’t priced cheap and are overrated for driving dynamics sold in classes that don’t really care about dynamics and lacking in good drivetrain choice, particularly hybrids. But they have an I6 for a giant SUV with inefficient packaging because that’s the prime market to care about an I6!
What is the ideal engine replacement for a Miata? If you want lighter, but more power, what are people dropping in them most commonly? K series?
I’m not kidding when I say an LS3.
It’s not lighter, but it is triple the power for only 200 lb gained and remaining balanced.
I would find it hard to believe you could swap anything close to that power level without gaining more weight. Turbos and such are heavy.
I mean there’s a ton of LS swap kits out there. Rotaries get swapped in too of course. For 4-cylinders, no clue what’s popular now. Even seen Ford Fusion 4s in the NC. I guess it depends on what you want from the car. Sensationalistic Shock Value, tons of straight line speed, specific noises…
I’m sure someone more knowledgeable than me will come along to help.
People mostly just seem to want to ruin them. If you want a much more powerful, faster car, perhaps that is what you should just buy in the first place?
The Ford 2.5L I4 and the NC 2.0L I4 are effectively the exact same engine save for the deck height of the 2.5 being slightly taller due to stroke differences. That’s about it, truly one of the easiest swaps imaginable, AFAIK every single NC stock part is a direct bolt on. The issue being the 2.0 in the NC stock is revvy, while the 2.5 is not, so you only gain about 5hp despite half a liter bigger. The real way to go is to swap the cams out, and ideally exhaust, which lets you realistically unlock 30+ hp with a 2.5 swap.
IIRC, the oil pan is the only part that you need to change out. Like you say though…the 2.5 has to be the start of a bigger build to get the most out of it. The best swaps (IMO) stop around 200 hp from the 2.5… it’s still not a super fast car, but an NC drives like it was made for that engine when done well.
When the “needed for swap” parts list is: Complete Engine, oil pan, you’re in for a pretty good time. But yeah, I don’t know of anyone that just does a straight swap without doing something to the 2.5 to make it more performant, otherwise you’d get more torque but a much less fun engine to work with.
Either the LFX V6 from a Camaro, or the Duratec 2.5 (3L?) from a Fusion. Both are very well known fits, and both don’t really change the weight balance of the car – particularly the NC.
You can add weight and horsepower with a V8, but a good V6 is a perfect match for a Miata. I’m assuming I’ll swap in an LFX when the 2.0 dies in my NC.
K swaps are a solid option for the NA/NB, as are GM Ecotec 2.2 and 2.4 engines which are lower cost. For NA’s one of the more common swaps is the VVT 1.8 from the later NBs since the NA and NB chassis are very very related (soft top and hard top are identical parts for example). The LS and V6 swaps are certainly good options, but far from cheap. When I had my NA a few years back I looked into swap options, with a proper K-Swap kit, it would have been nearly 10k in parts alone should I not do fab work myself. You can do an Ecotec swap for around 6.5k with a similar no-fab just buy setup since the engines are way cheaper and less intensive to swap.
“Ideal” is going to mean wildly different things to different people. Lots of people will say an LS Miata is perfect, but I’m not one of them.
For me, the ideal swap (but a challenging one) would be the Subaru EZ30 flat-six. It’s only 5lbs lighter than the LS (which again explains why the LS is so popular), but has a butter smooth power band, high reliability, and makes a great sound.
Back to the LS though, you’re only adding about 100lbs of weight for over 3x the power of the stock NB engine. 430hp is way too much power for a Miata wheelbase IMO, so the 245hp in the EZ30 seems more appropriate.
I love the sound of EG33 and EZ30 motors. Like a poor person’s Porsche. My turbo 2.5L NC Miata at 330hp was too much for the chassis. Goodbye turbo kit. I’ll stick with the 2.5L since they are dirt cheap to replace.
I’ve gone down the rabbit hole for NA Miata engine swaps. My favorite is the AJ30 3.0 V6. It is ford Era (so was Mazda in that time period), looks and sounds amazing, doesn’t add much weight, and works with most of the factory gauges from what I understand.
I bought one with a 2.5L duratec and a turbo kit swapped in. 330hp at the wheels in a 3400lb NC1 is a LOT. I’m removing the turbo since it causes overheating and simply overpowers the chassis and makes the driving less fun. Power is not everything.