It’s the day before Thanksgiving, which means home cooks around the country are collecting what they need to make a meal for their loved ones (and/or family). You’re my little family here, and I’m collecting data points to make you a warm, starchy, and filling Morning Dump–wow, that’s a sentence.
I’m going to start with a big number, which is how much people pay on average for a Ford Raptor compared to, say, the Ram RHO or Silverado ZR2. You want a bigger number? The 2026 Audi Q3 is way, way, way more expensive this year.
Here’s a smaller number: The number of Stellantis execs who showed up for an important meeting in front of Canada’s parliament. And, finally, I’ve got the number of minutes it takes for a car stolen with a certain technology to be returned.
The Raptor Was Clearly A Stroke Of Genius
Here’s a fun story from when the Raptor first launched. I was out doing a video/review with a buddy, and we’d even secured a Wrangler for a little comparison. The Raptor was brand new, and the early/pre-production version we had was one of the first ones in the great State of Texas. Driving it around an off-road park in East Texas (more the Jeep’s playground than the Raptor’s), I might as well have been in a neon green flying saucer for all the attention it got.
People were fascinated by the truck, which was designed more for dunes than the kind of muddy, rocky terrain that Jeep built its legacy on. That fascination continues today, with Ford realizing that people always want more capability than they need, and that the aesthetics are maybe even more important.
The F-150 Raptor wasn’t the first off-road truck from an automaker, nor the first expensive trim level. There are many reasons for its success, including the fact that it’s built on the most popular truck platform, but I think the biggest is just that it looks the coolest.
That’s simplyfying it a lot, of course, given the incredible performance, but it’s what I believe.
If you consider all of the vehicles built on the half-ton truck platforms in the United States, it represents about 15% of the total market according to S&P Global Mobility. If you take into account the profits, it likely makes up a way larger share for most automakers with half-tons.
There’s a bunch of interesting data in this report, like this bit:
The Ford F-Series and Chevrolet’s Silverado, the segment leaders, have remained in front throughout this decade, and their market shares are inversely correlated with one another: as one increases, the other declines. In contrast, the Dodge Ram’s position has deteriorated since mid-2022 and is just now beginning to improve, while the Toyota Tundra gained share from January 2022 to May 2024 but is now plateauing.
I’ve written about this effect before, and it seems like Ram/Tundra will continue to be locked in a battle for also-ran supremacy, which says a lot about Ram’s many, many problems, although the brand seems to be turning it around.
Here’s the table that really got me, though, which shows the registration volume and average loan monthly payments for the leading full-size half-ton pickups:
Damn. The F-150 Raptor’s average loan payment is $1,425. That’s a lot of scratch and a little less than double what people are paying for STX-trim model. The second-highest loan for any truck is the Tundra Crewmax Capstone, which Toyota sold a whopping 89 of in Q2, compared to 2,802 Raptors.
Obviously, some of this has to do with pricing. The Raptor starts at $82k and stretches beyond $110k for the Raptor. By comparison, a Ram RHO starts around $70k, and the most expensive ZR2 4WD Silverado isn’t that much more. Obviously, all of these vehicles can be optioned up and, really, none of them are Raptors, so it’s hard to entirely compare.
Still, that gap is impressive and huge given the giant volumes. Also, look at the STX versus the Silverado 1500 Custom. The average loan cost was within $5, which shows you how close the competition is.
The Audi Q3 Will Now Come In One Trim, Cost Way More Than It Used To
While automakers have been able to sneak tariff costs into things like delivery fees this year, that’s not going to be enough for everyone. Audi, which is the large brand probably at the biggest risk from tariffs, is going to have to deal with it the old-fashioned way: raising prices.
Case in point, the new Audi Q3, in spite of its cool turn signal stalks, is going to be a lot more expensive, according to Automotive News. Not only will pricing in the U.S. jump to $44,995, or a $3,900 increase over last year, but it’ll only be available in one trim line: S Line.
Why? The Q3 is built in Gyor, Hungary, and therefore subject to tariffs on cars from the EU.
Stellantis Accidentally Blows Off Canadian Parliament
While we’re on the topic of tariffs, the sudden move away from Canadian production has incensed lawmakers in that country (as well as trying to claim it as the 51st state). Teresa Piruzza, a Stellantis executive, was supposed to show up via videoconference for a Parliamentary committee about the millions of dollars the government has poured into the company for it to build cars there.
Per the CBC, she ghosted them:
“I am incredibly annoyed that Stellantis has not been able to join us,” said Vince Gasparro, the Liberal MP for Eglinton—Lawrence. “This is incredibly frustrating and […] at this point, unacceptable.”
Stellantis claims the company tested the connection and made it work initially, but that some sort of error stopped them from connecting a second time. You know who’d have been there? Former CEO Carlos Tavares, pictured above.
This mistake opened the company up for a ton of criticism:
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, one of the vice-chairs of the committee, told McCauley she was “speechless” that Stellantis still hadn’t appeared more than an hour into the hearing.
“Because clearly, when you make electric vehicles, when you are on the cutting edge of technology, it’s unbelievable that you have internet issues,” said Gaudreau, the Bloc Québecois MP for Laurentides—Labelle, in French.
There’s good fishing in Quebec, but also super ornery lawmakers. Figure it out, Stellantis!
Car Theft Recovery Firm Coming To The United States
Hey, Stellantis, take notes. When I’ve got somewhere important to be, I just show up, in person, like a professional. Or, at least, I do it when it’s at somewhere fun like the Classic Car Club Manhattan, and I’ve been promised a sandwich.
The event was to discuss Ituran, a global telematics and car security firm, which is bringing its somewhat white-label fleet management system to the United States. If you run a small rental firm, it might be worth checking out, though there’s a bit of data that I found more interesting.
Using a little black box that connects to the vehicle, the company can track and remotely immobilize a car. The trick, Deputy CEO Udi Mizrahi pointed out to me, was that the system tracks behavior and therefore sends an alert that it thinks the car might be stolen.
There are false positives (if the car suddenly moves at 3:00 am to take someone to the hospital, for instance), so the system sends an alert to the owner to ask if everything is chill. That helps keep the average recovery time down under 60 minutes.
The other reason for the speed is the places where the system is being most widely used: Mexico City, Tel Aviv, and São Paulo. According to Mizrahi, in many of these markets, there’s a narrow window to stop the car before it’s taken somewhere and chopped up for parts. While there’s no plan for this in the United States, Ituran uses its own enforcement units to chase down the vehicles.
Mizrahi says the “chasing” isn’t of the high-speed variety. Instead, anyone on the enforcement team following a stolen car is waiting to see when the vehicle is in a place where it’s safely stopped (like a traffic light) to immobilize it remotely. The enforcement units might even utilize a loudspeaker to tell the thief to scram:
“I don’t really care about the thief, I care about the car,” Mizrahi told me. “With the [thief] I’m just saying ‘walk away.'” That’s very Road Warrior, but you get the idea.
The company also does fleet services and can give drivers a score based on how safe they drive, and I’m tempted to install these units on our cars just to see who the worst driver is.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
Massive Attack just put “Safe From Harm” off its album Blue Lines on YouTube, so let that set your Thanksgiving mood.
The Big Question
Which car are you most thankful for?
Top Photo: Ford
IMO The raptor exists in a class by itself when it comes to off road trucks and pricing. The ZR2, and TRD Pro, are both significantly closer in spec/Price to the F150 Tremor and it based on that chat, the monthly payment tracks. The RHO is the only one similar in spec to the Raptor, but it starts out way cheaper. Plus at least near me, if you want a Raptor, you’re paying ADM, one of the few vehicles left like that.
As a small car person, I never got the appeal of them until I drove one. My wife’s childhood best friend bought her 2022 after her stint of Covid ER travel nursing was up. It sounds like a straight piped GTR, fast, and rides insanely well. I was 100% sold after 50 ft of driving, and plan on buying one after I am done with my Type R.
Yeah, I don’t know how people don’t understand that the Raptor has no real competition now that the TRX is gone. GM and Toyota haven’t made true Raptor fighters yet for whatever reason and that lets the Raptor almost become it’s own sub-brand in the Ford line-up. It’s almost a Mustang moment
“What do you drive?”
“Ford Raptor”
“Sweet!”
These behemoths aka Raptor, RHO and its various copycats are the most mall-centered vehicles on the road in America today. I live near the Tennessee mountains and what do you see on the trails? Tacomas, 4Runners, old Cherokees and Rangers. Know what you don’t see? Any of these poseur-queens.
None.
My Outlander can muster up most of the destinations that the above trucks can with S-AWC and have fun doing it, but these prissy-trucks need to just go away.
On top of being extremely expensive, the Half Ton Sized trucks are too wide for most Appalachian off road stuff, that’s why you don’t see them as often. They’re made for hauling the mail across the wide-open desert.
As someone who lives next to the wide-open desert, I see Raptors daily. And also Jeeps, Toyotas, Cherokees, etc.
+1 to this, Raptors are more common than any other F150 trim in the desert
Yes this. Quite tight in the hills.
Yeah, I don’t know who is managing to pay those truck payments. I need a truck (if you can call owning a camper a need (It’s really much more of a want)). I have a 21 RAM 1500 Limited, and my payment is not much under $1000, but I budgeted for it, my interest rate is 1.75% and I only financed it over 5 years. I only bought new because during Covid, the 2-3 year old used trucks were only about $1500 less than I paid for a new one with my Stellantis Supplier Discount. I plan on keeping the truck for many more years but it will be paid off in the next 6 months and then I’ll have no car payments (Hopefully for at least 4-5 years). The wife and my vehicles are both 2021 models with under 40,000 miles on them and both will be paid off soon. But most people are not in my situation.
I use the truck primarily to pull our camper so it’s at about 40% of it’s miles used for towing so far, but I only put about 9,000 miles a year on it overall. It’s also my winter car when the NC Miata hides in the garage, because I hate driving a truck as a daily.
Yeah, my wife was an older model, and I don’t remember her mileage; she was also paid off after the divorce.
If his wife is a 2021 model, then someone needs to alert the authorities!
I saw a lot of doctors driving theirs to the hospital.
I am thankful that I don’t have to drive everywhere all the time. It really improves my physical and mental health.
Thankful for? My Bolt. I miss that car now that I am on the other side of the country, and see them around here like they are the most popular car on the road. I miss it most when I am standing there on a corner, and here, er, don’t here, it whisk away.
I am also thankful for my 1994 Toyota Pickup that I DO have here. Little guy just wants me to drive him around with a monster exhaust leak while everyone stares at us like we don’t belong.
My barber has a brand new Raptor and he was nice enough to toss me the keys and let me check it out. I am thoroughly impressed. Looks great, drives great, handles fantastic and just brings a big ol smile to your face.
I was in the market for a truck at the time but there is no way in hell I’m paying Raptor prices. I love a good capable vehicle but over a grand payment is too much to swallow.
I went with a fairly basic Silverado Custom 4×4. It’s more truck than I need and will get me to those snowy ski resorts and remote offroading campgrounds just fine. I will miss the butt heaters though.
Kinda impressed that your barber can afford a Raptor. Good on him!
I used to have a barber who got in a spot of bother over insider trading. It could have been a good “throw mama from the train” scheme, but as the node he got thirsty.
A lot of tea is spilled at the barber shop.
My house payment is $1200, my current loan on the GR Corolla is $475. I cannot fathom a $1400 truck payment, (that likely doesn’t get used for truck stuff).
And I’m thankful for that GR Corolla!
I had a coworker that got a TRX during covid times and his truck payment was more than his house payment. He traded it in after 6 months, 7mpg of premium during the 2022 gas prices got old. His raptor replacement got double the MPG, which has since also been replaced with a FL5 Type R since he doesn’t actually need a truck.
House payment is $1650 on a 15 year mortgage. Car payments are $0. I have no sympathy for colleges driving two Mercedes yet complaining they will never be able to afford a house. (Daily drivers are a 2017 Bolt and 2011 Acura TSX wagon)
Jumps sell trucks. We saw this with MTEG stadium trucks and Bigfoot. Now the Raptor is here to let you do just that yourself. Someday. When you get the nerve.
Interesting (to me) takeaway from the truck sales chart broken down by trim level:
The people who want the cheapest possible truck overwhelmingly buy a RAM. The RAM Tradesman outsold the F-150 XL and Chevrolet 1500 (base) combined!
I think Stellantis being willing to finance anyone with a pulse probably factors into that
The Truck Industrial Complex is clearly working as intended. All of those payments are absolutely nuts, especially when you factor in median income. But anyway, I think Raptors work because they don’t just appeal to truck people. As you all know I am very, very much not a Truck Person. I have made many a joke at their expense on this very site but am trying to be nicer because truck owners can be a bit sensitive and we want this place to be welcoming.
Anyway, I still think Raptors are rad. They look badass, they’re fast on road and off road, most of them sound pretty damn good, etc. I still remember being a teenager, reading articles about the OG F150 Lightning, and being like wait they made a truck that can do THAT?! Obviously the Raptor trim debuted later on but it had a similar formula.
People that appreciate sports cars appreciate Raptors. Truck People appreciate Raptors. Off roaders appreciate Raptors. Against all odds Ford created something that really penetrated the zeitgeist across many different demographics and I think that’s why Raptors are so desirable. Normies know that when they see a Raptor they’re looking at a serious piece of kit. You can’t necessarily say that about an RHO/TRX, whatever the Baja Tundra is called, etc.
I have no use for a half ton truck and never will, and I am perpetually frustrated by the aggressive behavior of many of the people that drive them, but I’ve found myself browsing Raptor listings, and I know I’m not the only one.
Anyway what are we on about again? The Q3 is too damn expensive but 99.9% of them are going to be leased for $499 a month so it doesn’t matter. The car I’m most thankful for is my Kona N. I’ve recently had more chances to open it up on backroads and have fallen in love with it all over again. It’s also about to be paid off and I’m looking forward to several years of having an enjoyable car that’s paid off.
“Which car are you most thankful for?”
Miata. We are entering the time of year when I start getting cravings to drive it like some sort of junkie, but I know I want to keep the salt off of it. I’ve never experienced that with any other car.
Solution to those blues, beater miata for winter. That method has worked for me and father for 10 years now. His NC stays parked, and he drives the track toy NA on snow tires. My NA is just a beater.
My son has an ND that he dailies through the winter with winter tires, so I can get some of my fix with that. But his is an Auto, so it’s not as good. Lol
Buddy sold used cars and he told me to come in to test drive a Raptor and do lunch together. Raptor was traded in by a dentist who couldn’t justify the gas bill on top of the monthly payment. Traded it in for a freaking Honda Clarity of all things.
Most thankful for Fiesta ST.
There’s a woman in town who is doing pizza delivery in a 6.2L Raptor and has been for several years. I think they’re rated at single digit MPG. I have no idea how she’s even breaking even, but I can always tell when she pulls up to deliver from the rumble 🙂
Yeah, but is the truck now a deductible expense??
I drove one of the first gen Raptors and I didn’t understand it at the time. It was the one with the 3.5 and it wasn’t any faster than my Ram 1500. Also, because of the suspension you could feel the truck move around when stopping which I didn’t care for. That generation of Ford interior really sucked ass too but it looked good. I’d like to drive that Raptor R though.
That would have been a second gen. First gen got the 5.4 (dog) and the 6.2
Huh, I thought they started with the 3.5. TIL.
Why does the Raptor sell so well and look so good? Two words.
Box flares.
You might be onto something here. Does this mean we might be able to get step-sides back?
“Which car are you most thankful for?”
The one I own and keep maintained so that it still drives great after 16.5 years and 130K miles (12.5 years and 100K under my care)
Wise stewardship of an important part of daily life.
The whole raptor culture is lost on me. The seem less capable in every way. I’ve seen many crashed in ditches and apparently they get damaged relatively easily. As the prices go up the driving of them gets worse go figure. The same with a trx just get a diesel and call it a day. The r700 or whatever they call that supercharged xl or XLT without all the nonsense I could see. The irony is you could get one of the ev trucks that would smack it in everyway probably for less money. Or just do like everyone else using their truck as a truck and buy the perfectly capable XL or XLT and maybe put some more aggressive tires on it that fit.
The Canadian government seems like they are one gravy covered cheese curd away from flushing their whole auto industry. Honda and Toyota might want to send someone up there to say we are here building things not giving you issues.
The Nuclear option on the Auto industry in Canada would galvanize a lot of people, even further, for the real reason that button would pressed in the first place – US tariffs.
Torpedoing established automakers in Canada by opening the doors to China (for example) would, indeed, send quite a message to the US by destroying any automotive exports – and permanently have long-term negative business implications brought by tariffs. But the added damage to Canada would be significant.
I agree.
The opening of the Canadian market to the Chinese would be a casus belli for tariffs. Given Honda and Toyota have significant operations here still and seem to be better long-term partners, kneecapping them would prove very damaging.
It sucks that GM, Ford, and Stellantis do not particularly see a future in the Canadian market, but their legacy of disinvestment doesn’t merit strangling the remainder of the industry.
The game should be to open up to encouraging Chinese manufacturing, offering incentives as was done with Stellantis, and harmonize standards with the EU/ROW.
Toyota & Honda both make worldwide versions of both CRV and RAV4, so this shouldn’t be too contentious for them.
As far as the raptor culture, I think this old Onion article sums it up, as well as many, many other things- https://theonion.com/report-14-trillion-spent-annually-on-trying-to-look-c-1819571399/
Having done some consulting around Ontario auto plants, my take is Honda and Toyota are light years ahead of the 3 US OEMs in terms of modern operations and labour relations. Just the little details of how they don’t treat their workers like children makes a huge difference.
I get it, we don’t want to lose jobs, but I’m sure we would be better off with more good jobs if Honda and Toyota expanded further here at the expense of Stellantis, GM, Ford…
The big problem is more the impact on the parts suppliers. That supply chain employs a lot of people and some of those companies are also great respectful employers (not all, but most).
Having been in a few automotive plants in US, Canada, Germany, and UK: in German, British, Japanese, and American brands: the most adversarial and toxic of all of them by far are American brands, and it gets so much worse when any plant is located in the US than elsewhere (regardless if it’s union or not).
Best I’ve been to have been Japanese plants. And it’s not even close.
My 20 yo Marysville, Ohio built Honda Accord has been excellent.
There’s the significant question of whether the Governments of Canada and Province of Ontario should bother ‘investing’ in the so-called ‘domestic’ automakers given their seeming disinterest in Canadian operations. We ponied up in 2009 proportionally for the bailout of GM and Chrysler.
Brampton Assembly (Stellantis) and Ingersoll Assembly (GM) are now unallocated for production, which is one step away from permanently closed.
Oshawa Assembly (GM) produces the Silverado, which is produced at several plants across the continent. That plant was nearly closed in 2018.
Ford has Oakville Assembly, which will be producing the Super Duty, again produced at other sites in North America.
These plants can be closed and production easily shifted elsewhere if the market declines. Given the way things are going, maybe they just write their Canadian operations off completely if those companies find that currying favour to the administration is more politically expedient.
Stellantis produces the minivans and Charger in Windsor, Ontario. The weakest brands and vehicles of their whole lineup.
It’s the sloppy seconds afterthoughts produced here (at least two of which can be moved easily to other plants), probably only because each company knows they can shake the government money tree for a handout. But each handout mostly results the minimum effort, followed by disinvestment. It’s hard to really condone more taxpayer money at this juncture for them.
Well summarized. We need to stop handing out carrots and start swinging a big stick. I get and support industrial strategy, but not when it’s just corporate welfare.
Well Canada is charging reciprocal tariffs on US built vehicles. Which is pushing my employer to make vehicles for the Canadian market in Mexico to free up US production for US vehicles. Massive supply chain waste to avoid tariffs
We seem to be in a bit of repeat of the ’80s. Lada did ok in Canada in the 80s. I suppose Chinese imports could do similar. Or they could try to get them to invest in some kind of Canadian operation. Whatever they do punishing Honda and Toyota for the big 3s havoc shouldn’t be part of it.
“Ituran uses its own enforcement units to chase down the vehicles.”
Cyberpunk was supposed to be dystopian fiction, not an instruction manual.
I assume this is why Gibson keeps starting over on the third Jackpot novel. I wish he’d just write it. The Internet would be one big advertisement even if Phillip K Dick hadn’t written Sales Pitch in ’54.
Accidental, my arse. It’s an intentional strategy.
And, speaking from experience: deferring difficult conversations never comes out in your favor.
Wow, I pay less than the Raptor monthly payment for a 2 bed 1 bath apartment (with garage) in an expensive west coast metro area.
I was paying not much more in just outside (abutting city) Boston 2 years ago, also for 2 beds and a garage.
Wow. That seems like a good deal, honestly. I would be hard pressed to find that where I live.
There is a Raptor R at the dealer in town that is listed for just over 136k. I literally did a double take when I was looking at their site last night. Timely article.
Also, Canada can’t do much to Stellantis to really hurt it at this point, so I’m guessing the lack of respect will continue.
Canada gave Stellantis about $700 million USD in incentives to retool a plant, which Stellantis repaid by saying “nah, we’re gonna build in the US instead”. Given that Stellantis still wants to actually do some business in Canada, there are certainly a bunch of things Canada can do to them including presenting a very, very large tax bill.
And Stellantis can leave. The small market in Canada, especially with tariffs for all their products that have to ship out, probably aren’t worth it anymore to Stellantis.
It isn’t nice, or the “right thing”, but it’s a path I see a big corporation taking. This is Stellantis, not Patagonia or someone who cares.
Canada was about 10% the sales level in 2024 versus the US. Sure, it’s small – but that would still hurt.
I’d be okay with them pulling out of the market, since they’re not being good corporate citizens anyhow. It’s not like they’re irreplaceable. They sell a commodity.
The problem with that approach is that Canada is charging the same tariffs on US built vehicles as the US is charging for Canadian built vehicles. Which puts Stellantis and any other US manufacturer at a 25% disadvantage to any other trade partner.
The Raptor being that expensive I can understand. Ditto most of those full size trucks. But $45k for an Audi Q3 is where I draw the line.
I have 22 people coming for Thanksgiving tomorrow. I don’t have the time or energy to make more of a comment.
Pray for us.
Have you tried finding a local dive bar to hide at?
I don’t even know that many people.
User name checks out.
I don’t envy some of the conversations you’ll find yourself in after people have a few drinks in them.
I don’t envy you having conversations with them without a few drinks in you first!
A few rounds of Cards Against Humanity usually settles things down.
22 guests x 8 White Castles per comes out to . . . hell, just buy an even 200.
11 cheese fries
11 onion rings
2 boxes of wine (red)
2 boxes of wine (white)
2 cases of beer (mainstream)
2 bottles of Tequila (moderately priced)
2 bottles of margarita mix
1 bottle vodka (spring for something better than Fleischman’s – it’s the holidays after all!)
1 carton OJ (no pulp)
Throw a throw a couple of heads of cabbage on the table for the veg (they double as a “center piece.”)
Makes it easy since they sell them in multiples of 100x
Who hurt you?
Pulp in my tequila? No thanks. (I loathe vodka)
As someone who once helped his daughter build a scale-model of the St. Louis Arch out of empty “craver” boxes which in turn caused my wife to leave the restaurant early and wait in the car out of embarrassment, I strongly endorse this course of action.
This made me laugh out loud for numerous reasons. You have StL connections?
Lol, no connections to speak of – we’ve went there a couple of times for long-weekends/mini-vacations. Plus whenever we go to Florida there’s a White Castle in Shiloh that we almost always stop at on the way back as our travel schedule puts us in that neck of the woods around 1:00 in the afternoon.
White Castle has long been a personal favorite of mine, but unfortunately they haven’t expanded into Iowa yet.
This is so amazing. And I say that as a wife.
Thankful for my 2 electric cars and not having to go to a gas station in over a year. Monthly electric costs for 2 cars is around $30-35 (charged at home).
I am thankful for GM Insurance for saving me half of what AAA was charging me at this point (Michigan, no fault, very expensive state). Between GM Insurance and Hagerty for my “classics”, I am all set for the next 6 months.
GM will probably track my driving but AAA did too and it was going up no matter what driving score I had.
Did you price out the classic with Grundy? They saved me almost 80% of what Hagerty wanted.
Not really, but I pay $100 per month for a 1973 Super Beetle with $15k of insured value, 99 Miata NB insured for $13K and 96 Mustang insured for $3.5K lol the Miata left me stranded twice (thanks supercharger) and the towing service was really fast and professional both cases, something that AAA struggles with. The good thing about AAA is that I can use the membership with all my cars, even rentals.
I think my NA costs me 180 a year with an agreed value of 12k through Grundy… might be worth looking into!
In Michigan? The problem is that Michigan has a double whammy of no fault ( you pay no matter who caused the crash) and car insurance being the primary insurance responsibility for all medical claims resulting from a car crash.
Couldn’t wait to get out of Michigan and their stupidity insurance regulations
In AZ, to be fair. Though, we have mandatory glass coverage and a ton of uninsured drivers (many from out of country, to boot!), so the rates aren’t super ideal here either.
Interesting. Also Michigan based and switched to AAA this year from Safeco and saved a bunch. But it really is a year by year thing at this point…
you need to shop, there’s always a deal for a new customer, and a price jack for a loyal customer. I shop companies basically every year now, I might not always swap, but I make sure I am still getting a fair rate. Your insurance guy will love you, mine know me as a cheap ass, and they pre-shopped everything for me this year and had rate comparisons ready to go, instead of waiting for me to ask ha!
I’m thankful for my paid off car. Base model trucks having an average payment of just over $700 is ABSURD.
You still get a ton of stuff in a base model. Inflation is a b*tch tho.
The fact that I can’t have heated seats in an STX (which a trim above the base XL) but I can have all the BS trailer backup 360 camera nonsense blows my mind.
Same… Ford is shockingly stingy with seat heaters and ventilated seats.
They know heated seats are one of the few things people want badly enough to go up a whole trim for.
Not an endorsement of the strategy, but an explanation.
Heated/ventilated seat availability is almost enough to make one shop another brand.
Agreed, but the other brands’ comparable trims (Express and Custom) don’t come with heated seats either. They’ll end up upselling you to another trim as well.
Though, the other brands seem to have better rebates than Ford unless you REALLY shop around. Also, the LT comes standard with heated seats versus the XLT that hides it behind an expensive option paywall. Props to Toyota (of all brands) to offer a heated steering wheel as a standalone option.
When I shop a car and their builder starts tacking on $8k worth of stuff required to unlock one $700 option, I usually just close the browser tab and look at something else.
It pushed me to a different brand. There were a couple of non-negotiables that you can’t get unless you go all the way to a Lariat (and even then I’m not sure they’re standard) – specifically heated steering wheel (more important than heated seats IMHO) and power folding mirrors. I was ready to plunk down the cash for a 2.7 Ford, but you can’t even get that engine on the Lariat trim. Ford literally wouldn’t sell me the truck I wanted, so I bought a Chevy. So far no regrets, although I suspect I’d feel differently if I had the seize-prone 6.2.
The 21-23 Lariat was a much nicer truck. Better wheels, Leather vs Pleather, 2.7.
It’s an embarrassment, is what it is. It should be as standard as A/C or cruise control at this point.
Especially in EVs, as they draw less power than a heat pump and can increase range.
Heated seats were the ONLY reason I went up a trim level on the Crosstrek in 2019.
Aftermarket is a thing. I won a lot of husband points by having heated seats installed in my wife’s car for her birthday. Cost a fraction of factory and work just as well.
STX owner here. The reality is it’s just an XL with an appearance package, not different from a Ram 1500 Express or a Silverado Custom, which can’t be optioned with factory heated seats either. It’s just what the market dictates.
STX also seems to have better incentives for some reason. Seems to be the F150 to get (except for no heated seats!)
I picked it because IMHO it looked way better than the chrome heavy XLT. And if I wanted a monochrome package for the XLT it would’ve been at least $6K more but I’d have gotten heated seats. Which I like but don’t really need as it never gets under 45 here.
STX has the best wheel options too.
I was planning on buying an STX then swapping the steering wheel out before I went through a career change. I hate the vinyl wheels in the Ford trucks, but the STX has everything else I wanted.
I got a Raptor style steering wheel cover on Amazon for about $50. It’s a stitch in wheel cover with the right dimensions and trimming to wrap around like an OEM leather wrapped steering wheel. It took me 2-3 hrs to do but it’s worth it.
Maybe stuff other people want. Last MY, Tradesman Ram 1500’s had an option for heated seats and remote start, and that would definitely help the emotional impact of a $700 car payment. Now, you have to get the Big Horn for MY26 1500’s for that option, not even the Warlock/Express (the trims in-between Tradesman & Big Horn) come with those options!
Inflation sucks.
I wanted a Warlock until I saw that Heated Seats aren’t an option. It would be almost everything I’d want in a truck (especially now that they have the 10/100k warranty). Seems silly that the offroad trim (you know, the ones that hunters and outdoorsmen would spring for) wouldn’t have butt heaters.
To be fair, the Raptor is low key one of the best daily drivers there is, as long as you don’t need to worry about tight city parking spots or MPG. Otherwise, it does almost everything else. Quiet, comfortable, quick, capable, still can tow a good amount, TONS of room, and has a huge trunk (er, decent sized bed). Great resale too! If money were no object, I’d totally daily one (without the decals and with a camper shell).
Luxury half tons have replaced the personal luxury coupe from the 50’s-70’s and do everything better.
My wife has said she’d love to daily a Raptor. Honestly, I get it.
Backwards facing car seats radicalized me, personally. I love the idea of the Ranger Raptor, but the F150 Raptor gets almost the same MPG and has so much extra rear seat room. I will live with my Maverick…for now.
Fitting my child in the back seat behind my leggy 6ft tall wife is what keeps me shopping half tons.
Midsize are all the capability I need, but we regularly do multi hour trips and tight rear leg room is an issue. Especially when you load my 120lb dog in the back.
It reminds me of one of my cousins who was dead set on getting a 2dr despite having a 1yr old son. He asked me for months about what to get and I told him to just throw in the towel and get some 4dr sporty option like a Charger, but he was not convinced enough on the looks. His wife agreed on the 2dr and he got a 2020 Challenger.
He told me that was the only 2dr muscle car that could fit a rear facing child seat behind his wife, the difference being she’s only 5’1″ tall. But not even the Mustang nor Camaro could do that if she sat up front. When more room is needed they still have a sedan.
I had an F150 crew when our kiddo was born. It was great. The Sorento gets it done with forward facing, but it’s tight.
For perspective of how long her legs are: When she got knee surgery, she was in a brace that locked her leg straight.
I couldn’t physically fit her into the front seat of the Sorento. I had to remove the front passenger seat, put some patio cushions in it’s place, and she sat in the back seat with her leg resting on the cushions.
I could’ve solved all of this with a Toyota Century.
“Babe…hear me out… V12 Toyota from the 90’s is the ultimate family car…”
90s? Pfft, I’m in Canada. I’ll import a 2010! (we’re only 15 year import rule, not 25).
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 😀
I’d honestly go for it if money is not a problem. Sweet ride for sure
One of MANY reasons to head to Canada.
Come on up! We’ve got strong beer, legal weed, and poutine.
When my 6 foot plus sister had knee replacement surgery done here husband threw her ass in the bed of their truck for the ride home. Too lazy to remove a seat…2 years later she is still pissed off at him.
I bought my Silverado before having anyone in a rear facing car seat. But I know if would have been much tighter, vs having tons of extra space now compared to my Colorado. Only losing 1 MPG made me question why I ever owned a midsize.
I’m strongly considering a Raptor for my next purchase. It scratches the itch of something ‘fun’ without the wife complaining that I have 2 vehicles (I can’t go without a truck for several reasons). There really is no other vehicle that is as versatile as a Raptor.
If I ever win the lottery, I am daily driving a Shelter Green Raptor R
I’ll take mine in Oxford White.