Home » Reddit Commenters And Our Commenters Were Right, We Whiffed On This One

Reddit Commenters And Our Commenters Were Right, We Whiffed On This One

Whiffed Ts4

So far this year, we’ve written 558 new articles. That’s a lot! Especially when you consider we don’t do AI slop or use outside vendors to create SEO-inflected, trending garbage. Did all of those articles land? No. Of course not. One in particular aroused a lot of interest, and not in a good way. We sort of whiffed it, and since I was around when it happened, I thought I’d explain what happened and what our guidelines are for this kind of thing going for it.

The article in question was proposed in Slack with the very suggestive headline: “If Americans Don’t Want Small Cars, Why Did This Honda Fit Only Depreciate $1,180 In Eleven Years.” That, to me, is a funny headline. When it was mentioned, I had a good chuckle. I wasn’t actively editing stories, and I didn’t think much about it at the time.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

The car in question was a 2015 Honda Fit, in yellow, with somehow only 1,600 miles on the odometer. It sold for $18,000 on BaT, because of course it did. Low-mileage cars exist in a universe in which other cars do not, and extrapolating that out into a larger trend is, of course, kinda silly. Right there, we should have killed the headline, because no realistic version of that post could have lived up to it.

That doesn’t mean that the car wasn’t newsworthy. The larger point could have been that there are some people who do find these cars desirable, and the reversal of Obama-era footprint rules might create an opening for more small cars. Alternatively, people are obsessed with these cars, and a good post could be had just describing how beloved they are.

That’s not the post that got published. Instead, we wrote something that only very obliquely mentions the above and is way too nuanced for anything approaching a headline that bombastic. That’s our bad. That’s also my bad, because I gave a nod to the working headline without reading the post, and then moved on with my day. I didn’t realize something was wrong until I saw the comments on Reddit, where people were absolutely ripping us a new one. Sometimes Reddit can be unfairly harsh, because the critiquing of things is always easier than the doing of things. I don’t think that’s what happened here.

I rushed back to the site to actually read the website, and I gulped. The commenters here, as on Reddit, accused us of Clickbait and they weren’t wrong. I’ve gone back and changed the headline, but far too late to really matter.

The thing about Clickbait is that we write this stuff so people read it, which means we write the headline that we think people will read. That’s how bait works. The best version of a headline is one that gets you to click, and then overdelivers relative to your expectations. I think about this the way Costco thinks about Kirkland brand stuff. Costco, famously, demands that its store brand stuff be at least 1% better than whatever it’s meant to be duping. An Autopian story should be better than the headline that gets you to read it. That was almost impossible with that headline. [Note: I think the big issue is that the headline tries to make an incorrect point (that a lot of Americans like small cars) and the evidence is a cherry-picked low-mileage cream puff. It’s a bit insulting to the readers’ intelligence. And we have the sharpest readers in town. -DT]

What we usually say around here is: Are we earning a click or are we stealing a click? If we “steal” a click, that’s one pageview, and you never come back. That doesn’t work for us. A reputation is built on 1,000 articles and lost on one. If we “earn” a click, you hopefully read and, even if you don’t agree with us (ahem, timing belts), you at least know that we believe what we’re saying and understand that it’s a good-faith argument. It makes you want to come back.

In this case, we let down both the readers and the author, Thomas, by not interrogating it more before it went up. The post ended up in an uncomfortable no man’s land between Totally Sincere and Tongue-in-Cheek, and while plenty of commenters on both Reddit and here seemed to find some nuance in the article, it’s hard to blame anyone who didn’t. Going forward, we’re going to reiterate internally that our standards require us to overdeliver with our posts, and that, if you’re going to make a claim, there has to be solid proof to back it up. And if your claim is a joke, that has to be abundantly clear.

I’m just writing this to point out that we heard you and to say thanks. I sometimes get emails critical of a specific post, technology change, headline, or whatever. People are nice, and they usually say something like “I’m sorry to email you about this, but I think X doesn’t work” or “Apologies about bothering you, but I thought Y was a bad post.”

I always tell them that they don’t need to apologize. For every person emailing, commenting, or putting a note on Reddit or social media who dislikes something, there are probably at least a few more who aren’t going to tell us. I love it when people tell us how much they love the site, but I also appreciate it when people care enough to tell us when we miss. It’s the only way we can get better, and that’s what we want to do.

Almost all of the car magazines or websites you read are owned by one of a handful of large, often private equity-backed monoliths, and we’re not going to be able to compete with them if we don’t listen to our audience and take it seriously. It’s actually very helpful to get this kind of feedback. And though we believe we have the highest editorial standards in this business, we still have work to do.

Does this mean every story after this will be perfect? Absolutely not! We’re going to make more mistakes. I have some really dumb things that I very sincerely believe, but when I write about them, I want you to feel like it was worth it to spend a few minutes of your time listening to that really dumb argument.

Ok, you want a really dumb argument: VW should swap all of its cars, other than the GTI, with Cupra and Škoda models. That’s a freebie!

Share on facebook
Facebook
Share on whatsapp
WhatsApp
Share on twitter
Twitter
Share on linkedin
LinkedIn
Share on reddit
Reddit
Subscribe
Notify of
124 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Ian McClure
Ian McClure
1 month ago

FWIW I didn’t see anything wrong with the article.

Hillbilly Ocean
Member
Hillbilly Ocean
1 month ago

The best Honda Fit is the one driving around here with the license plate “Hissy”

Username, the Movie
Member
Username, the Movie
1 month ago

I think Thomas is a great writer (along with the rest of the staff here), but the “Check out this crazy price on BaT!” articles are probably the only ones I routinely skip. They have an interest angle, but they all just seem to be shallow and clickbaity. Again, not a knock at Thomas (he does some of the best Car reviews I have ever read!), I appreciate that those articles get attention, and I do normally find some interesting info in them about the history of the vehicle in question etc. when I read them. But yea, I don’t read them very often.

Keep up the awesome work, thanks for working to keep this place great and keeping everyone in the loop on stuff like this, its so rare these days.

Cranberry
Member
Cranberry
1 month ago

Y’all doing fine. Anyways, I was walking down the street somewhere a while back and saw a first-gen Honda “PHHT!” which was awfully cute.

UX Designer
Member
UX Designer
1 month ago

I thought it was a fine article that made an interesting argument and if Americans didn’t want small cars, how could the Seltos/Venue, actually mini Minis, etc. exist?

I guess people are just hypersensitive since the internet is being flooded with garbage at a higher rate than usual these days. Where were all of you nimbys when ad slideshow listicles came on the scene?

The value of the final gen Fit is an intriguing point in itself. A friend’s was totaled after very fixable damage and they were upset about losing their car and the bitter feeling that the insurance company knew they could make money reselling it.

Last edited 1 month ago by UX Designer
Oafer Foxache
Oafer Foxache
1 month ago

It actually makes you more genuine… otherwise how can an automotive website properly represent the industry without needing the (very) occasional recall?

AutoTea
Member
AutoTea
1 month ago

Why is clickbait capitalized? Is it a proper noun like Dumpster and I just didn’t know?

Harveydersehen
Member
Harveydersehen
1 month ago

> you want a really dumb argument: VW should swap all of its cars, other than the GTI, with Cupra and Škoda models

There’s nothing dumb about that argument.

MikeInTheWoods
Member
MikeInTheWoods
1 month ago
Reply to  Harveydersehen

That’s the only way I’d drive an IDbuzz: It it was free and they swapped it to me and took my rusty Silverado with the questionable transmission. That’s the only way I’d tolerate that flop of what was once a great idea (20 years prior)

Torque
Torque
25 days ago
Reply to  MikeInTheWoods

If VW increased the ID Buzz range by +33%* and decreased the asking base price by 33% they could have a real winner on their hands!

* and maintain at least 2-3 C rapid charging

M SV
M SV
1 month ago

People seem to be stretching what click bait is a lot now. Half of those people claiming it was click bait probably don’t remember the internet pre buzz feed the other half probably still have a yahoo account. The bring a trailer articles are always a bit grasping at straws because it’s a single vehicle on a online auction if two people want it enough it will sell for crazy numbers. Could it repeat maybe but maybe not. It’s just a single data point that could mean something or nothing.

Fordlover1983
Member
Fordlover1983
1 month ago
Reply to  M SV

I resemble that remark! (@yahoo.com)

JJ
Member
JJ
1 month ago

How would it go if at your job you had a worldwide audience expecting perfection and watching over your shoulder and judging you for every mistake you made?

Spaghetti Cat
Member
Spaghetti Cat
1 month ago

I was fine with the headline of the article. I think most people can understand that a single data point (i.e. one car sold on an auction site) does not indicate a larger trend or change.

The headlines that do make me roll my eyes so far back that I look directly at my brain, are the ones that end with ‘and I have questions’. Such as today’s “VinFast Is Working On A 616-Horsepower Luxury Sedan And I Have Questions“. The ‘and I have questions’ is completely unnecessary. The headline stands just fine with it. As journalists, I assume you have questions.

JJ
Member
JJ
1 month ago
Reply to  Spaghetti Cat

I’m mixed on this. Without the end, it’s a neutral statement. I don’t know what it says about me, but I’m way more interested in reading about OEM bad ideas than a plain old review.

Plus, this site is very intentional about its tone/voice. I’d say it’s something like “causal and friendly but also earnest and accurate/trustworthy” which fits with the headline.

Finally, yeah I agree if it is being used multiple times a day then it gets real old. I’ve never noticed but will now.

Cryptoenologist
Member
Cryptoenologist
1 month ago
Reply to  JJ

I think the “and I have questions” could be abrogated by simply using two question marks.

Dan1101
Dan1101
1 month ago
Reply to  Spaghetti Cat

I don’t mind that headline. I mean I didn’t like it enough to click on it, but VinFast is sort of a trainwreck anyway.

Forrest
Member
Forrest
1 month ago

Don’t sweat it. Pretty much any honda fit (fih?) content is good honda fit content.

Honda Fit is the Answer
Honda Fit is the Answer
1 month ago
Reply to  Forrest

This is the answer.

EXL500
Member
EXL500
1 month ago

I love and agree with your screen name.

Forrest
Member
Forrest
1 month ago

Honda Fit is the Answer is the Answer

5VZ-F'Ever and Ever, Amen
Member
5VZ-F'Ever and Ever, Amen
1 month ago

I truly envy all the people who have enough free time to get so fired up about a lighthearted article about a fun little car that they storm off to a different website to complain about it to other complainers. Hell, the few minutes I spent writing this comment could have been better spent!

JJ
Member
JJ
1 month ago

Just wanted to comment about your comment that there’s a group of commenters commenting on these comments.

BB 2 wheels > 4
Member
BB 2 wheels > 4
1 month ago
Reply to  JJ

commenting on the comment about the comments of comments on commenting site.
Fuck reddit.

Cryptoenologist
Member
Cryptoenologist
1 month ago
Reply to  JJ

Here to comment on this comment as commenting on comments often gets better engagement than commenting on non-comments.

David Smith
Member
David Smith
29 days ago

No comment.

Krabizzwainch
Member
Krabizzwainch
1 month ago

This website is one of the main places I’ve turned to since I went cold turkey from Reddit. I’m here for the irreverent articles about cars with the tongue in cheek nature. Cars are fun, wild car takes are fun, and the random one off sale of cars that leave you asking “why didn’t they drive that at all???” are why I’m here.

JJ
Member
JJ
1 month ago
Reply to  Krabizzwainch

Yeah I was reading the article really hoping for the backstory on the mileage. But I understand you can’t always find it.

BenCars
Member
BenCars
1 month ago

I would say for the most part, a lot of the stories on here are very worthy reads.

The most important thing for me with regards to the headline is that it has to be absolutely clear what the article is about. That’s what compels me to click through.

Elhigh
Member
Elhigh
1 month ago

This kind of mea culpa is what gives me faith that the site is okay. Flawed, sure, but what the hell. So am I.

Rapgomi
Member
Rapgomi
1 month ago

While its good you take these things seriously, I think you really had to want to be critical to think it qualified as click bait. It was clearly just a tongue in cheek way to bring up the topic of the disappearing small cars.

Electronika
Electronika
1 month ago

Honestly I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. People are too quick to jump on people for the sake of being jerks behind the vail of anonymity of the internet. If you don’t like an article, move on.

Dogpatch
Member
Dogpatch
1 month ago

I and many many others pay to read articles exactly like what was written.
Keep up the great work.

The NSX Was Only in Development for 4 Years
The NSX Was Only in Development for 4 Years
1 month ago

I honestly just saw a picture of a Fit and clicked the article because I like Fits.

pliney the welder
pliney the welder
1 month ago

Same here . My brother in Buenos Aries has had one forever and absolutely loves it . We talk about it all the time .

BB 2 wheels > 4
Member
BB 2 wheels > 4
1 month ago

Fuck reddit.

Greg
Member
Greg
1 month ago

Whats with this anti-bot sentiment friend?

beep boop.

Casey Blake
Casey Blake
1 month ago

Can you imagine caring that much about a car blog post, other than if that’s how you make your living?

Harmon20
Harmon20
1 month ago

I pounded out a poorly worded screed in the comments of that story, but I was so all over the place with it and not particularly coherent. Quite unusual, I must say, as I’m typically eloquent as crap. I ended up deleting it and moving on with my day and tried to forget I’d clicked in.

Torque
Torque
24 days ago
Reply to  Harmon20

This

“Quite unusual, I must say, as I’m typically eloquent as crap”

Is outstanding:-)

Bjorn A. Payne Diaz
Bjorn A. Payne Diaz
1 month ago

Reddit has been out of touch for a while now. Not that the article was/wasn’t correct, just don’t put any weight in reddit or it’s commenters. They were coopted by the Chinese about 7 years ago and now that they are public, pfft, anything on there is itself click bait. That’s what being a publicly owned website MEANS. Clicks = dollars, so anything on the site is bait.

Lotsofchops
Member
Lotsofchops
1 month ago

Killing third party apps was the best thing reddit ever did. I stopped going there and my life legitimately improved.

Bite Me
Bite Me
1 month ago

Blaming China for Reddit being shitty is insane

Space
Space
1 month ago
Reply to  Bite Me

He is not wrong about China using Reddit for influence it’s well documented at this point that they have state sponsored propaganda teams and bots online on many platforms. But it’s not just China that does it. Welcome to warfare in the 21 century.

Bite Me
Bite Me
27 days ago
Reply to  Space

I’d bet my foot that the US is more responsible for astroturfing and agitprop on Reddit than any other country, but the reason Reddit sucks is because of the very real losers who’ve set the tone for the site for over a decade now.

DialMforMiata
Member
DialMforMiata
1 month ago

Honestly Matt, I’m only here for the $1.50 hot dog and soda combo.

Last edited 1 month ago by DialMforMiata
124
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x