You’re probably sick of hearing about tariffs, this dance of uncertainty threatening to drive up prices of cars and parts, especially ones that aren’t built in America. For enthusiasts, it’s time to get a bit selfish, because aside from the Corvette, very few sports cars are built in America. A few months ago, this seemed fine, but new import tariffs could accelerate the demise of fun new cars for people on modest budgets like you and I.
If we’re going by the classic sports car definition of relatively light weight, engine in the front, drive to the back, and a row-your-own gearbox, the most affordable options in America all come from Japan. The Mazda MX-5 is built in Hiroshima, the Toyota GR86 and BRZ are built in Ota, and the Nissan Z is assembled in Tochigi. These are all important not only because they’re three of the least expensive new cars following a classic sports car formula, but also because tariffs on Japanese-built vehicles have ballooned from 2.5 percent to 25 percent.
While some of this increase will likely be cushioned temporarily, even an extra 20 percent on a $30,000 car like a GR86 or MX-5 would be huge, potentially resulting in a $6,000 price hike. Going up a rung, a 20 percent MSRP hike on a Nissan Z would put the list price north of $52,000 including freight, although current discounts suggest Nissan might have more meat on the bone. At that point, these reasonably priced sports cars would be competing against relatively recent secondhand Porsche Caymans and even early Lotus Evoras, and enthusiasts absolutely love to shop used.
Unsurprisingly, part of what’s already affected new sports car offerings is a different set of conditions than during the roadster revival of the 1990s. We’re looking at about the same chronological gap between an early MGB and an early Miata, and that same Miata and a new one, and both the cars themselves and disposable income couldn’t be more different. Not only did more households in the 1990s have new car money to drop on a weekend toy, buying a ’60s sports car wasn’t for casuals because car construction had come a long way.
Electronic fuel injection replaced carburetors, tune-ups were vastly simplified, acceleration improved immensely, as did reliability, as did liveability. In the early 1960s, you’d be lucky to have overdrive, cars weren’t galvanized, safety came pretty much last, and five-digit odometers were common because most cars were all worn out by 100,000 miles. In contrast, you can hop into most cars from the 1990s and simply use them as you would a modern car. Plus, since sports cars tend to live more pampered lives than mass-market transportation, as owners decide they’re done with their ’90s and 2000s sports cars, buyers are ready to rush in. With such a wide array of secondhand options that are usually fairly reliable, it’s no wonder the new sports car market is shrinking.
So what about other more-affordable new performance cars? Well, as an email from reader Goof pointed out, sport sedans and sport compacts aren’t safe either. The Volkswagen GTI is built in Germany, the Honda Civic Type R, Subaru WRX, and Toyota GR Corolla are all built in Japan, and the Hyundai Elantra N is made in Korea. The Mexico-built Volkswagen Jetta GLI and Canada-built Honda Civic Si are likely to be less affected due to varying degrees of U.S. parts content, it wouldn’t be surprising if tariffs also affect pricing of those vehicles.
If 25 percent tariffs on imported cars hammer sports cars, the decline we’re already familiar with may accelerate. While there will always be a market for high-end stuff, everyday people like you and I might be priced out of GR86s and GTIs. Without people to buy these fun cars, the business case would start to vanish, and if the numbers don’t add up, perhaps some automakers will exit the entry-level enthusiast car segment entirely. As such, we could be staring down the barrel of a new Malaise Era, just with lack of power being replaced by lack of fun. That would be a shame because driving should be fun, it should be exciting, it should be engaging. At least we’ll still have old stuff to enjoy, but if enthusiast options dwindle, we could all end up becoming relics.
Top graphic images: Mazda; depositphotos.com
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Whenever a discussion of Tariffs and their affects comes up with my friends that voted a certain way, I repeat one quote. Tom Cruise as Jack Reacher just before a fight ensues with thugs from a bar, “Remember, you wanted this.”
Tariffs may remove all lower margin vehicles from the U.S. Market during a protracted trade war as automakers, especially struggling ones like Nissan contract their line ups to the essentials. Given the choice between importing a compact sedan like the Sentra vs a trendy sub-compact CUV like the Kicks from Mexico with the tariff premium added, the choice is clear.
PARTS!!!
I routinely order parts from Europe for old BMW motorcycles.
And they are shipped by DHL.
And DHL won’t ship any packages over $800.00 due to tariffs.
There’s no gaming the system, because if I take that $800.01 shipment, and make two orders out of it, I’ll still have to pay shipping on two orders, which is more than just the one shipment, and even then, the parts themselves are going to cost more.
winning….
The affordable sports car. I’m going to use the definition of sports car somewhat loosely. More ‘sporty’ than ‘sports’.
When I think of affordable sporty cars through the decades, my mind goes to mid-’60s Mustangs, late ’70s-early ’90s Camaros, the late 1990s Civic coupe (mostly the Si edition), the early 2000s Subaru WRX. A Miata was always a niche item (<20,000 annual sales in the US since 1996), most of the upper crust Japanese sports cars were hugely expensive in modern dollars.
But a lot of those popular vehicles were underwritten by mundane versions of those cars, or by engineering shared across multiple platforms. The 2.8L V6 Camaro RS was an unremarkable pile of late ’80s GM parts bin. Mundane 100 horsepower 4-door Civic DX/EXs carted untold masses around. A median 1960s Mustang had fairly unremarkable small-block V8 engine.
It’s an impractical purchase for many. If you’re young, you’ll suffer the impracticality for the adventure of something cool, even if it is somewhat crude and uncomfortable.
If you’re older and have wealth, you’re probably aiming somewhat higher.
I think there’s a series of issues coming to roost:
1) A decline in automobile interest for the young overall. Perhaps displaced by other interests/hobbies.
2) The increased burden of starting out in life (increased college/housing/food costs). A 20-something carries more burden than their predecessors in the 1960s-1990s.
3) A decline in mainstream platforms that allow scale to be achieved. Smaller cars are fading from mass popularity, rear-drive platforms are scarce outside the premium segment. The less one can amortize, the costlier these things are.
4) Ordinary cars don’t suck nearly as bad as they did before, and to get something special that’s noteworthy enough to drive interest requires a level of hardcore that’s almost off-putting. The GR Corolla is amazing, but damn, doesn’t it occupy a very narrow niche.
5) The upper middle/lower middle class split. A lot of ‘sporty car’ demand was driven by the lower middle class to middle class. The upper middle class tended to have higher aspirations than a Mustang/Camaro/Si Civic. As the gap widens, the upper middle class dominates, the lower is unprofitable to market to.
6) The popularity of pickup trucks. As much as a new one may be expensive, there are plenty of second hand ones that are more affordable. Picturing a guy who might’ve driven a IROC-Z Camaro in the ’80s, his modern counterpart probably would gravitate to a used Silverado/Ram/F-150.
It sucks, but just enjoy what you’ve got before it’s gone.
Damn glad I got my 86 two months ago. I love the car, but this makes me love it even more!
Same. I just recently picked up a new BRZ. I’d hate to see these cars vanish from the market, but that increasingly probable reality is what drove me to pull the trigger when I did (and Subaru’s sweet purple paint helped too).
You got the purple one? That looks sweet! Did you have any trouble getting one? I had to go to a couple of dealers and jump through some hoops for the Hakone, and then wait over four months, but it all worked out in the end. I didn’t know if it was any easier getting special editions out of Subaru vs.Toyota.
Yeah, it’s a very dark, subtle purple. Almost black from most angles. I like the understated color, but Toyota seems to do a better job at making their special editions feel more special (i.e. Hakone green and the new Yuzu yellow).
Back in February I called the dealer closest to me and they told me that they had already preemptively placed an order for a purple BRZ. Since I was the first person to reach out, they said it’s mine if I put down a reservation. I’m not sure what the dealer had to do to get that allocation in the first place, but at least from my perspective the purchase process was super easy.
I wonder if it’ll result in less US-centric thinking for car makers? The Toyotas and Hyundais of the world might get priced out of the US market entirely, meaning that they’ll take the US out of the equation for platform development. It might mean fewer Canyonero-esque SUVs and crossovers for the rest of us?
While I’d expect we’ll get fewer models from each, both companies are pretty well setup to build a decent quantity of vehicles in the US. And while GM and Ford are trying to push capacity in union plants, Toyota and Hyundai probably see a smaller impact on costs being setup in less union-friendly states. Of course components are still going to be imported and literally everything is going to get more expensive, but some “foreign” automakers might be in better positions than the big 2.5.
Keeping my Miata forever then.
Me too! 31 years already!
Mine too! 1994 was the best year of the NA
“You’re probably sick of hearing about tariffs…”
Nope, I love more ammo for my “told you so” gun.
I think at this point you might be shooting a dead horse.
This is the point we are trying to kill it bad enough it can’t come back until after we are dead.
Nuke it from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure.
I dunno. I have a feeling there are many, many, folks that still believe all is good and will need a reminder in a couple years.
You’d be surprised how many times you can wound that horse without killing it.
At some point we’re going to run out of faces and have to start feeding the leopards surplus soybeans.
I think a funny thing is going to happen, with climate change, an aging US population, higher taxes on the horizon, people’s wallets will demand more 4 door economical and fun cars.
Hell, I’m past 40 and really want to get a WRX. Thank god the prices on quality used ones are coming down!
Yes, it may be a buyers market for us Gen-Xers in a year or two.
My money’s on 3-door crossovers becoming popular prioritizing versatile cargo capacity over passenger space. This is because we are becoming less social plus our declining marriage and birthrates means more older adults without spouses, children, or grandchildren to cart around while still needing the high seating position.
The return of the Shooting Brake?
Yeah this is what has been worrying me most (as an enthusiast) about the tariffs. As a human I’m worried about a lot more, haha.
You get a crossover, you get a crossover, EVERYONE GETS A CROSSOVER
With or without BEES.
Bees Forks?
We put $5000 on the hood of this crossover, and 5000 bees inside!
It’s a real shame that coupes and convertibles are going away quickly. I have a few theories:
1) The death of the traditional, single income nuclear family. Back in the day, families could have two cars: a fun car and a daily driver that could haul the kids around. Now, both parents need to work and both parents need a practical car to pick the kids up from school.
2) Safety perception. More, now than ever, small cars are seen as more dangerous than bigger cars (not necessarily true, but optics are optics). Example would be a 2012 Pilot versus a 2015 Fit. The Fit scored better in crash tests, but most people would want the Pilot for safety. People like big, tall cars these days.
3) Modern car seats. Modern seats to transport children are HUGE. I couldn’t imagine loading my 3 year old into a coupe in her backwards facing car seat.
4) People just don’t really care about a good driving experience anymore… they want the latest features and tech. Manuals are seen more as an antiquated inconvenience than it being a plus from years ago. Same with a coupe/convertible.
5) Car guys/gals are cheap! Most of us would rather buy a depreciated used cool car than buying new. That doesn’t help the manufacturer’s bottom line if many of us buy used.
It’s a darn shame that everything will be an electrified tall blob. Happy Monday.
Add’l on 4) Most of today’s cars are vastly superior in braking/handling/acceleration that those considered ‘sporty’ of the last century.
I joke that we need to bring back ‘scary’ handling/braking to regular cars to cut down on people thinking they are in Mario Cart game while commuting.
Driving a 70s pickup truck 90mph on interstate would be a both hands on the wheel affair.
When my sons were smaller there were a few times I had to put the rear facing seat into the back of my Mustang. It wasn’t fun or something I would want to do on a regular basis.
I sold my ’94 SHO in early ’06 because a modern safety seat just did not fit right.
Without doing any research I bought a seat with a fairly small base so it actually fit in the deep buckets of the rear. I didn’t plan on putting it in that car and only did a couple of times when I didn’t have a choice. From that experience I made sure I got narrow boosters.
Sold my C30 when I found out we were having a kid. I miss the car, but got to keep the Miata in the garage. Modern car seat didn’t really fit in my replacement 2016 Mazda3 hatch, and required the passenger seat move forward far enough to block side visibility. The replacement Ford Maverick works…barely. If I had a second kid, it would be game over. Can’t imagine how anyone remotely tall operates with today’s car seats!
Rear facing only lasts so long. My wife and I just dealt with the squished passenger seat knowing that it wouldn’t be that long. Thankfully she is short so had enough leg room with the seat in. It was very uncomfortable for me the few times I was a passenger.
I put my twins in their rear-facing car seats into the rear seat of my ’67 VW squareback a few times. I will admit I didn’t have proper seat belts in there, but I did have some straps attaching the seat bases to the vehicle seat belt attachment points.
I swear, Mazda was really onto something with the packaging of the RX-8; with a more economical engine it’d be a good DD and I have 2 car seats in the back with good access to get the kids in (once they’re front-facing anyway), and I’m 6’2″
Disposable income and traffic. Between stagnant wages and more congestion than ever a toy car loses desirability.
I’ve been talking to dealers — particularly new car sales managers and GMs — the past few weeks to get hard impact numbers. It’s not pretty.
Even extremely high margin brands like Porsche, on cars loaded with options, a dealer instantly goes into the red. It’s no surprise companies are paying for storage and demurrage fees hoping things may change, but if it doesn’t pan out and they pay those on top of the new duties? <shudder>
This may genuinely kill fun cars going forward. The US is a very large chunk of global sales, and if that sales channel evaporates, the internal business case to sell “mainstream” fun cars is a real uphill battle.
There’s effects on the used market as well, even outside the US. The US was a market in other countries for used fare since US duties were so low. Well, if the car isn’t sufficiently old enough, that’s off the table now. So for those sellers, a whole market nearly disappeared overnight.
The new auto tariffs specifically exempt vehicles over 25 years old.
I know. I said “not old enough.”
I know someone who had to rush to get a McLaren-Mercedes SLR (2009, nowhere near 25 years old) on a PLANE before the car was hit with a $60,000 additional duty.
They got it in the air before the tariffs, but still ended up paying a ton to fly it.
I’m already a bit of a relic. At least my spine is.
I know the feeling. At 67, (and with a really unhappy spine) I’m more interested in comfort and reliability than steering feel and ultimate limits of adhesion or acceleration.
But I still like reading about it and living vicariously.
Agreed. We all do. 🙂
‘Murica! Trucks4evah!
I mean the default vehicle for most Americans has been a half ton truck for years and with tariffs on the way I’d imagine the market share is only going to grow. While I’m not someone who’s just like TRUCKS BAD across the board or anything I still find this rather depressing.
I mean, a fullsize truck IS more practical and useful than a Miata or similar.
I know you’re thinking about a 4Runner. My buddy has a 2018 F150 crew cab 4×4 with the 2.7L engine. It gets better mpg than my 4Runner, while being able to tow just about 2X as much and carry nearly 1k lbs more payload while carrying 5 passengers in greater comfort. (4R seats five, but the 5th passenger is NOT comfortable).
Th only real negative to them is physical size (and cost, if buying new).
Agree, my brother-in-law’s F150 2.7L ecoboost get close to same mileage as my Escape, but significantly larger.
I was seriously thinking about trading the 4R for a 2.7 F150, but I waited too long. Used prices seemed to have gone up significantly since last fall and now they’re more than I feel comfortable spending, especially with impending economic doom upon us.
His F150 got totaled last year (That auto-braking saved him from a more serious wreck), so went to buy another one but the 2.7s are now about $10k more than 5.0 ones (reverse of when he previously bought), so he bought 5.0. Complains about the mileage now.
Oh that’s funny, in my area the 5.0’s seem to carry a premium. I think they sound fantastic, but that’s about it. Owners that I’ve conversed with that have had both say the 2.7 actually feels snappier.
When I asked him about the 2.7L, my buddy’s words were “I love it, it’s fast as f*ck”, lol.
Might be way they are configuring them around here.
The Coyote just seems odd for truck applications to me. It’s a sonorous, high and free revving V8 that absolutely chugs gas. I’d love to have one paired with a manual in a Mustang, but in a truck it just seems odd. That engine is at its happiest when it’s being smashed against the rev limiter and it needs to be wound out.
…do people really crave that in a truck? I’ve driven a Camaro with the LT1 V8 before and to me it makes way more sense because of all the low end torque. You CAN wind it out, but you don’t have to wind it out to access the power. I’ll bet it’s fuckin sweet in a Silverado I just couldn’t live with the mileage.
Supposedly the 2021+ Coyote has been tuned for more low end in the F150 application, but I agree. The Ecoboost motors make such great low end, they’re perfect for truck applications.
Same with the new 2.4T in the 4runner/ Taco. Peak TQ at 1700 rpm, as compared to 4,000RPM+ for the old V6’s. All the fanbois complaining about it don’t know how torque works.
We have both Coyote and Ecoboost trucks in the fleet I manage, and the Ecoboost have much more bottom-end punch and feel considerably faster. Fuel consumption isn’t much different though, not enough for me to notice on my reports.
I think some people are just stuck in an old way of thinking and VEE ATE IS TEH BEST rattles around in their brain. The exhaust note is better on the Coyote, I will cheerfully admit that.
That’s the rub with V8s isn’t it? We’ve got plenty of other ways to make that much power and almost all of them are more efficient. But there’s only one way to make that sound, and what a sound it is….
FACT: my F150 2.7 gets the same combined MPGs as my previous 2nd gen Escape V6.
It’s amazing how much the MPGs have improved on full size trucks
Trucks are probably the most practical vehicles on the road. There’s almost nothing you can’t do with a modern half ton. Carry your family in comfort? Done. Tow? Done. Drive in all weather? Done. Haul a bunch of shit around? There’s nothing better. I get it, and this site is one of the main reasons why to be honest. I’ll absolutely have full sized trucks on my shopping list next go around. There’s almost nothing a truck can’t do.
My issue is that there are very few things that you truly NEED one for unless your job necessitates one or you’re towing all the time. There are other negatives as well. They’re friggin YUGE, and the data shows pretty clearly that it’s making roads more dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians. It’s also worse for our already struggling infrastructure for everyone to be rolling around in 3 ton behemoths. They’re also worse on gas and emit more than most smaller vehicles, which causes them to have a disproportionately negative environmental effect compared to other cars.
I’m not going to sit here and say no one should have anything that they’re not going to fully use the capability of….because if we all made our choices based solely on practicality and the greater good enthusiast cars would cease to exist. But when looking at the big picture I struggle to reconcile the fact that a full sized truck is more or less the default vehicle in most parts of the US.
Too many trucks is bad for pretty much everyone except the manufacturers. There’s got to be a happy medium somewhere.
The growth of half-ton trucks is the tragedy of the commons of transport. It improves your quality of life by 100pts and reduces every one else’s by 0.1. Which is fine till millions of people do it, now everyone’s life is shittier. And of course everyone taking a 10 point debuff is off the table, so we get 1000 point debuffs instead.
This is such a good way to put it.
Parking garages are more dicey now with everyone’s crew cab trucks w/ trailer ball sticking out in aisles…’fraid I’m gonna slice open my passenger side of my car if not careful.
Yeah but when the majority of “American” trucks are actually built in Canada and Mexico, looks like we’re all buying Tundras!
My nuclear take is that in a vacuum the current Tundra is probably my favorite half ton. I just like the looks a lot, it comes in cool colors, and you can get a little more bang for your buck spec wise if you’re clever with the options. But WHOA BUDDY has that V6 been an issue so far….
Yeah I don’t pay much attention to trucks for the most part, but I have always liked the Tundra. The new one is a bit over styled for my taste, but all new trucks are, but yeah Toyota missed the mark on that powertrain. If I needed to get a truck I would most likely be looking for an old Toyota T100, and then get a Triumph T100 to match it.
If I absolutely had to get a truck I’d find the nicest Silverado or Sierra with the Baby Max that I can afford.
Yeah I would go far older than that. T100 or an Avalanche are pretty much the only ones that hold my interest. Maybe a first gen Tundra as well, but I really like the sort of in between size that the T100 was.
I had a 1st Gen Tundra 2×4 4-door with the V8 15 years ago. It was very pleasant to drive. Not particularly efficient. But it’s probably still running. My brother has the 4×4 version and his still is.
Previous gen (2nd) Tundra is the move.
actually just the Ram HDs, Maverick and some Silverado 1500s are built out of the US.
Used Tundras are great, but the new ones are an spectacular failure waiting to happen
My mistake. I legitimately thought a huge portion of the 1500s were built in Canada. Agreed, the new Tundra is a nightmare. I just know for several years it was given the award for having the highest US parts content. Not sure if it still is or not though.
As stated previously: The only thing I hope will come from these tariffs is that all the current anti tariff sentiment will finally lead to the elimination of the Chicken Tax.
From your keyboard to God’s ears MrLM002. 🙂
But it won’t. I’m not anti-truck necessarily, but you can’t deny that a lot of policy is skewed in their favor. CAFE is dumb and skews domestics to produce more vehicles classified as trucks. Chicken tax keeps out vehicles that could be smaller, more efficient, competitive, useful. Other trade policy effectively shuts out EVs from China- the most innovative and dynamic EV market at present, not to mention inexpensive. Trade policy favors EVs produced by current co-president’s company. Low fuel prices largely upheld by a global military force to protect oil fields and trade routes. Zoning ordinances that require parking. And on and on.
Here’s a wild take: The only upside I can think of right now about the Tariffs is if every non-truck shipped from overseas now gets the 25%, does that mean the tariffs on those have leveled out with the Chicken Tax trucks? If that’s the case I see no reason not to bring let’s say the Mitsubishi L200, the Ranger Super Duty or the Hilux instead of a much less profitable econobox.
Or will the new Tariffs be additive? Who knows, given the squirrely nature of this administration.
I’ve had a Nissan 720, a Toyota (the smaller one) and a Tundra. I saw a VW Amarok TDI in Mexico and at the time was sad I couldn’t get one.
I will probably never need or want to drive a pickup. If I did, I’d probably get a Honda Ridgeline. But I don’t so I’ll just rent one from U-Haul or Home Depot if I ever do.
Reality is even worse- Corvette has about 60% imported content, Trump’s 25% tariff means at least a $10K price increase. Miata. the twins, and Z car will go up $8K and more. All of these are low volume cars with no business case for building them in the U.S. and are in price sensitive markets= ‘Vette might survive, otherwise it’ll be a choice between a $40K Ecoboost Mustang with the hopeless slushbox or the gas guzzler V8 for $10K more…
There’s still the Mustang.
Yeah but the general consensus is that the S650 kinda sucks outside of the Dark Horse
Are you sure? I couldn’t immediately find a definite number, but it seems like the US and Canada parts content of the Mustang is somewhere between 50 and 75 percent. That’s still a lot of parts to pay taxes on, for a relatively low volume car.
so you’re saying this is a safety issue
I’m not sure I buy this.
A 1990 Miata cost $13,800 to start. Median household income was just under $30,000.
A 2023 Miata costs $28,000. Median income was $80,000.
A new, base Miata cost 46% of the median household’s income in 1990 and 35% in 2023.
Nostalgia for a past utopia when everyone was supposedly rich and had everything is as bad when doing it about the 1990s as it is when others do it about the 1950s.
Yeah, I grew up in an affluent neighborhood in the 1990s, and everyone I knew, my family included, only had two cars. Sure, one of them might be something fun, but it was a still a daily driver.
I guess boats and RVs would fall under the weekend toy category, and many did have one of those, but then that was the whole family’s main entertainment source, it wasn’t just for one person.
Honestly, a great theory I read about this recently is that so much of nostalgia, even for people who lived through it themselves, is shaped by TV and movies.
Most shows and movies portray people with money, which is clear to viewers at the time, but becomes less so as the memories fade, and eventually we start to believe that the McAlister family from Home Alone or the cast of Friends was how everyone lived in the 90s.
Nostalgia is a powerful drug.
I just got back from taking my dog to the veterinarian. There was a print from Norman Rockwell that showed 5 adults and a child in a waiting room be seen by the Veterinarian. 2/5 people were smoking in the waiting room and the walls were a slight yellow.
I don’t want to go back.
I still want to drive fun cars, though 🙂
This. 100%. Ferris Bueller’s Day Off is another good one where the AV equipment Ferris had in his room as a high-schooler would have been the envy of many professional recording artists at the time, but today it’s easy to think of his family as a pretty average American suburban family.
Looking forward to my kids’ generation believing that “Real Housewives” series depicted a middle class existence of the 2020s.
Rosanne was actual truth, working class family with 2 incomes struggling each week to keep up with daily life.
Something you just said triggered a memory.
Growing up in an upper middle class area, it seemed like every other house had a 3rd car that was a weekend toy. MGs, Mustangs, Firebirds, even an old guy that had a 356 that he tinkered with on the weekends in his carport but never seemed to drive.
But as for RVs? My dad got a cheap old falling apart trailer that was maybe 14 feet long and that was it. For the entire neighborhood.
Now I live in an upper middle class area. Seems like every other house has a RV or big Travel trailer in the driveway. But as for car toys? One guy has a Nova drag racer (and an Toy Hauler RV for it) and another guy has a couple Miatas. It’s like RVs have replaced cars for weekend toys.
(and I don’t understand why. My family did do a couple weeks in that musty old trailer and it sucked)
Fair stats, but a certain few things eating up that income (namely education, healthcare, and housing) have probably made the ratio of discretionary income/car price a little more stable, or maybe even a bit worse.
That’s the main rub. I still think cars (in the US) are pretty cheap for what we get out of them, but we paid so little for so long, we got a little spoiled. We also built entire generations of life around a family having 2-3 cars, so we’re feeling the pinch of all of that.
I agree this is true to an extent as well, but I’d be curious to see more stats. Houses are bigger than 35 years ago, more people feel the need to attend college, and so on. Hell, the Miata itself is more powerful, efficient, and safe while costing less.
Overall though I just wanted to push back on the nostalgia. Despite being a kid of the 90s myself, it wasn’t perfect.
NEW houses are bigger than 35 years ago. Depending on where you live, most homes are older than 35 years old. The same home (3 bed, 1.5 bath ranch) that my factory worker grandfather bought new in 1966 for 1.5X his annual salary is now about 6X my annual salary.
When he bought that house, my grandmother stayed home with the 3 kids. Fast forward to today, my GF and I both work, have no kids, and still could not afford that same house today.
Yeah I bought a house a couple years ago that was last sold in 1950. The lady bought it for $5k. That $5k is supposedly worth $66k now. Man I wish I could buy anything for $66k! I bought it as a major fixer upper at over $300k.
Are they? This article says the average new home size peaked in 2015 at just under 2500sqft, but today it’s under 1800 sqft.
Average Home Size in the USA | 2025
The first house I grew up in was built in the mid-80s and was 1900sqft. Later the family moved to a stereotypical 1990s McMansion that was 3400 sqft.
Construction land, labor, and material costs have all shot up in the new millennium, but tastes have also changed a lot. Like I have no desire today for separate formal living and dining rooms that were all the rage growing up (and even back then they didn’t get used much), so that’s a good 450ish sqft I don’t want in a house today.
I think a lot of the 90s nostalgia comes from childhood lack of responsibility though. Like if I could go back to just having the cares of 10-year-old me where my biggest worry was if I could mow enough lawns on my block to buy Pokémon Red, that’s pretty appealing right about now.
Interesting, my perceptions may be out of date on this one.
Yeah more and more areas are going to condos and townhomes that are well below the average of what it was in the 90s. I grew up in a 3300 sq ft home, and now live in 2100 and it’s the biggest I’ve ever owned.
Not in my area, maybe some new 1800sf condos, but new houses seem to start at 2200sf and up.
Neighborhood I grew up in was 900sf 2/1 1940s houses.
Well yeah, I’m going off national averages here, so by definition it will be more or less in different locations. Anecdotally in my area it seems like houses are getting MUCH smaller, in the 1200-1400sqft range, but I specifically looked up the national average so it was just my local perception.
While car prices haven’t changed much at the affordable end, even with the added capabilities, the other large costs have gone way up, making toys less affordable. When I was a kid, I grew up in a lower middle class area and fun cars were in about every tenth driveway—they were everywhere and cost more to run as they weren’t as reliable or as rust resistant as a modern equivalent would be. In my very uppity neighborhood now, my GR86 is practically a Ferrari for the rarity of seeing something remotely sporting or fun.
None of those added features of the new equivalents really matter. A house costs a lot more relative to income now and people don’t have much choice for smaller homes to reduce that expense, never mind the cost of rent. That someone (maybe) gets more space for the price of a house relative to income is not really the result of much choice, so it’s not a good argument against the decreased affordability of housing—most peoples’ largest cost (also add higher property taxes from increased values never mind any rate increases). This is especially so after decades of middle class wealth building having been so reliant on real estate that it resulted in many smaller houses being expanded to increase their market value. For example, even if I could find a home of the 900 sq ft or so that I’d be perfectly satisfied with, the price wouldn’t be much less than one 2+ times larger because of the high land value and demand. Further, houses of smaller sizes or so haven’t been built in so long for multiple reasons, that any that could be found will be decades old and, as it would have never been a high-profit build in the first place, not of good quality, so it could in theory cost more than the larger house due to all the repairs and updates required. On top of that, since it was never enlarged/demolished for something larger, it’s almost guaranteed that it’s in a lousy location, which means higher insurance (another cost going up!) and reduced appreciation.
People need higher ed more than they did in the past and it costs much more. Health care, another major cost, is also much more expensive and is likely to keep me alive even longer so I can continue paying out even longer, dragging my increasingly ugly body that refuses to die through this world of shit-flinging primates with delusions of superiority. All this has happened while worker productivity has gone up, so it isn’t the people who’ve seen the benefits of that. OK, clothing is cheaper (a small part of most peoples’ budgets that comes with greater environmental cost) and electronics are much cheaper, with capabilities nobody could have dreamed of, but that’s not much of an offset as it’s also a fairly small cost and those increased capabilities are arguably a large part of the greater problem.
Thats true, but how does the picture look if you add housing cost into it? I imagine if you took income and subtracted the median mortgage/rent payment, then did it as a percentage of the remainder it might have painted a different picture.
Not sure, honestly. The average mortgage interest rate in 1990 was north of 10% though.
Also fair.
I remember in the early 2000s when I started looking at apartments and a 1br was around $1200 in LA. And my dad hits me with “thats more than the mortgage on our house”
Definitely has stuck with me how cheap that mortgage was compared to what I’ve paid since for smaller houses outside of California…
How much has housing gone up in that time? Just because a car is more “affordable” based on a percentage of income doesn’t mean there’s money to buy one.
Tariffs themselves are not the issue, it’s the uncertainty of them.
I believe the personal transportation industry is attempting to follow the model of the housing industry. That is, make the product so unaffordable that most folks can’t afford to buy the product and are forced to sign a lease, creating a continuous stream of income for the landlords.
Both the uncertainty and the reality of tariffs are issues.
Well, that’s OK, with double digit unemployment and runaway inflation, nobody’s going to be able to afford any new cars anyway
I’ve got a bum education, and with double-digit inflation, I can’t take a train to the job, there’s a strike at the station
This is what our billionaire/tech overlords want. They want all small pleasures to be inaccessible for the majority of the country so they can more or less “lease” them to you at a massive premium. They’re coming for our housing too. Technofeudalism is the goal. Keep this in mind and vote/fight accordingly.
Who am I supposed to vote for when all the candidates are backed by said billionaires?
A good start would be not voting for the billionaires in question when they run for office directly.
Anyone with that much money who wants to hold elected office should be immediately suspect.
If all else fails, don’t vote for the one who openly wants to end elections, deploy the military against citizens, admires dictators and oligarchs, and is a proven SA enthusiast.
Depending on the economics of doing so, I think some of these companies’ plants could pretty quickly retool to dodge some tariffs. So the GTI is German and the GLI is Mexican? It couldn’t possibly be that hard to align the GTI with the GLI (and most other Golf/Jetta models) at the Puebla factory.Or build the Hyundai N models alongside the normal ones in Montgomery. Or the WRX in Lafayette?Edit: I’m obviously ignoring the political impact of NOT doing those things as a form of protest. The bread & butter cars are mostly unaffected, but if you f*ck around with a small cadre of loyalists, the outcry will probably be louder than anything.
Mexico will still be tariffed. Chattanooga has 2 lines IIRC and could build Taos/Tiggy if they booted the slow selling ID4 EVs off to the coming Scout plant, but I doubt they’ll bother bringing low volume Golfs there. Still leaves VW importing powertrains which will be tariffed.
Mk7/7.5 GTIs were built at Puebla, I wasn’t even aware they moved the Mk8 back to Germany
Depart the entry level, as a whole, for the US. Sporty or not.
Seems to have been the modus operandi of Ford, GM, and Stellantis anyway.
It always felt odd; why push away new buyers from your brand?
Agreed 100% Spikedlemon.
Even if a manufacturer barely made a single sad dollar of profit on a sub-$20K car, to me it’s still in their absolute vital self-interest to build and sell a decent one. Don’t you WANT to introduce new drivers/buyers to your brand? Don’t you want them to like you, and look to you first when they’re ready to move upmarket to a pricier vehicle? Isn’t there something to be said for offering potential buyers an accessible choice?
There’s zero shame in making or using basic cars. Heck, I think they’re actually kind of noble really… a car should be a car first and foremost: it ought to get you where you need to go with a minimum of fuss in a modicum of safety and comfort. Sure, fun-to-drive and nice-to-look-at are icing on the cake, and I LOVE me some icing, but a 90s Toyota Echo, basic and funny looking as it is, has plenty going for it to anyone with a lick of common sense.
We had a Toyota Yaris many years ago. It checked all the boxes we needed of it at the time.
It’s a fine car that needs little maintenance, very reliable, fuel efficient, and can transport many Ikea boxes. I still think positively towards Toyota because of it.
A guy I volunteer with at a food bank gave his old metallic pink (sort of a mauve actually) automatic 5-door Yaris to his son, who clearly has some sense because he LOVES it, despite the fact that it’s the opposite of what any young person would think of as a cool car. I asked the guy to keep me in mind if his son ever gets tired of it before he wrecks it, so I can buy it from him. 🙂
GM used to be very good at this. Their brands were carefully tiered and priced so that they had something to offer everyone at every income level. Just starting out, we got a Chevy 150 for you. Got that promotion to plant supervisor? Come check out this Pontiac Chieftain. And so on with Olds, Buick, Cadillac.
For a while they even had some mid-tier companion brands, like LaSalle and, Viking, and Oakland.
This is another area the used car market has encroached on too. The increases to durability and reliability, CPO programs, and recognizable national used car chains all make a good used car less of a gamble. Cars are less likely to end up in beater status as quickly, and a good used car can work as a fine replacement for one that is, not like the times of a manual steering loss leader special as a way to get a reliable, even warrantied vehicle. And we can throw in easy credit in there too.
Not to mention safety features previously serving as a big jump ahead in new car. A 5 year old car in year 2010 might have only had dual front airbags, but even a 15 year old car today would have multiple airbags, ABS, maybe even stability control.
And honestly new car brand loyalty doesn’t seem to be as strong as it once was. Especially with how many review sites and consumer tools are out there, it’s easy to look beyond what you’re already familiar with and it works out just fine.
Personally, I’m grateful that late model used cars are so decent: so much safer both literally and in terms of financial loss (from getting a crappy lemon that’s costly to own). 🙂
Trucks. The new buyers are buying used off lease trucks or becoming the third owner of a traded in 8-10 year old truck. Or they’re starting with a lease on a truck.