Home » The Ineos Grenadier Is Almost The Perfect Off-Roader. Almost.

The Ineos Grenadier Is Almost The Perfect Off-Roader. Almost.

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The Ineos Grenadier is essentially a modern version of the legendary Land Rover Defender, which means that — to many — it should be the ultimate off-road vehicle money can buy. I had a chance to drive a Grenadier on and off-road, and what I learned is that the Grenadier is a true off-road monster that’s so close to being perfect. But it’s just not quite there.

First, I’ll say that there’s no such thing as a perfect car, but there is such a thing as a vehicle that is (essentially) perfect for specific uses. The Beetle was the perfect city car in its day, the BMW i3 is the perfect second-hand suburban car, the Jeep Cherokee XJ was the perfect off-road family car of the 1990s, the modern Jeep Wrangler is the perfect rock crawler, a Porsche 911 is the perfect canyon-carver: You get the idea. Oftentimes the vehicles that are “perfect” in one area are compromised in others, and that’s just part of the game. It certainly applies to the Ineos Grenadier, though again, it’s not quite the perfect off-roader. But it’s damn close.

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How The Ineos Grenadier Came To Be

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The Ineos Grenadier is the brainchild of Sir Jim Ratcliffe, chairman of British chemical company Ineos Group Limited, and a huge fan of old Land Rover Defenders. Ineos’s website describes the impetus behind the vehicle, stating on a web page dated February, 2017:

Following the completion of a six-month feasibility study, INEOS confirmed that it’s going ahead and building a brand new uncompromising 4X4 off-roader. While the company is one of the largest manufacturers in the world, it will be the first time that INEOS has produced such a vehicle. “This is a fantastically exciting project,” says Jim Ratcliffe, INEOS Chairman. “We want to build the world’s purest 4X4 and are aiming it at explorers, farmers and off-road enthusiasts across the globe.”

Here Ineos mentions that Ratcliffe was inspired by the death of the true Land Rover Defender. He doesn’t say anything about the modern Defender, but I’ll just say it for him: That’s not a true hard-core off-road machine; it lacks solid axles, it lacks a ladder frame, and in my opinion it leans too far towards luxury to be a true off-road beast.

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The project is the brainchild of INEOS Chairman, Jim Ratcliffe, who was a fan of the original Land Rover Defender. When it ceased production, Jim saw a gap in the market for an uncompromising off-roader that stood for adventure and active driving but also had the capability to be a work and utility machine.

The company quotes Ratcliffe as saying the Ineos will take inspiration from the old Defender and improve upon it:

“I’m a great admirer of the old Land Rover Defender and have enormous respect for its off-road capability,” says Jim Ratcliffe, INEOS Chairman, “and our new 4X4 has been inspired by it. But whilst our off-roader might share its spirit, our new vehicle will be a major improvement on previous models.

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The vehicle, named (with the help of the public) after Ratcliffe’s go-to pub in London, Grenadier, was largely engineered in Germany, with Ineos stating on its website:

Our 200-strong team of expert engineers started working full-time on the vehicle from our offices in Stuttgart. Fusing British design with German engineering precision.

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As the vehicle’s timeline transitioned from prototype into production-intent vehicle, Ineos teamed up with legendary Austrian off-road vehicle builder (and builder of numerous non-off-road vehicles like my 1994 Chrysler Voyager diesel (5spd!), Magna. From Ineos:

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Dirk Heilmann, Chief Executive Officer of INEOS Automotive, confirmed: “The transition from concept to series development is a major landmark in the evolution of the Grenadier. We’re pleased to have Magna, with their long heritage and experience in 4X4 development, with us for the next stage of the journey. With our production plans recently confirmed, we now move into all-important series development and start to set our sights on the start of production.”

But unlike the Mercedes G-Class and Pinzgauer (shown above), the Ineos Grenadier is not built at Magna’s facility in Graz, Austria. No, Ineos acquired an old Mercedes plant in the town of Hambach, on the border of France and Germany (just south of the town of Saarbrücken).

Hambach-New-lrg.jpg

The setup in Hambach is actually quite interesting; Ineos is helping manufacture Smart cars! Here, allow Ineos to explain:

Under the terms of the acquisition, Mercedes-Benz will contract INEOS to continue to produce the smart EQ fortwo and some Mercedes-Benz components at Hambach. When combined with INEOS’s plans for the Grenadier, this translates into some 1,300 jobs at Hambach, including commitments to onsite suppliers.

Anyway, enough background, let’s get into some tech, and then talk about how this vehicle drives.

Let’s Look At The Tech

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Ineos’s representative is pumping diesel into the Grenadier’s 23.8-gallon tank, which feeds a 3.0-liter BMW turbodiesel mated to a ZF eight-speed automatic transmission with a “heavy-duty torque converter.” The engine makes around 250 horsepower and 405 lb-ft of torque, while an also-available 3.0-liter turbocharged gasoline inline-six from BMW offers about 280 horsepower and over 330 lb-ft of torque.

From the ZF transmission, the BMW engine’s torque goes through a Tremec-built full-time four-wheel drive transfer case with a 2.5:1 low-range ratio and an integrated center differential (and differential lock). From there, torque goes through a pair of driveshafts to solid axles built by Italian tractor-builder Carraro. Yes, you’re reading that right: Ineos got axles from a literal tractor manufacturer; that’s pretty badass if you ask me. In fact, Ineos’s representative told me that Sir Radcliffe visited Carraro, who was presenting an axle to him for use in the Grenadier; per the rep, Sir Radcliffe looked off to the side and saw another axle and said “I want that one.” Apparently the man knows what he wants.

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The suspension is an off-roader’s dream. You can see the solid axle above, with a rather flat center differential housing, which is something I don’t think I’ve ever seen on a production vehicle.  That’s nice and compact and high off the ground. Everything appears well protected, with no low-hanging shock mounts (they, along with the lower control arm mounts, appear to be roughly level with the bottom of the differential, which is tucked up high).

Image: Dana

You’ll also notice that there are no ball joints to allow the wheels to turn left and right; instead, the Grenadier’s axle uses kingpins, which were found in old Jeeps (like the 1948 Willys CJ-2A that I owned), and in some of the most hard-core off-road builds ever. You’ll find kingpin axles underneath some of the biggest, baddest Jeep builds at Moab, the Rubicon Trail, the Badlands, and many other off-road parks. In fact, Dana offers a kingpin modification for Jeep Wrangler JK axles (see above). Here’s a quote from Dana:

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Our kingpin knuckles have developed quite a loyal following and now we can provide them with complete kingpin knuckle kits so they can replace the ball joint assemblies to customize their Jeep vehicles, adding strength and stability.

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As for the suspension design, what you’re looking at above is a significant improvement over the Land Rover Defender’s three-link “Radius Arm” suspension, which tends to bind up quite a bit when the axle is trying to articulate as the vehicle goes over uneven terrain. Both designs utilize coil springs, but unlike on a radius arm suspension, the Ineos’s five-link design — pioneered by Jeep with the introduction of the 1984 Jeep Cherokee XJ — mitigates axle roll by adding two additional links (upper control arms) to the two lower arms (the track bar that holds the axle laterally is the fifth link).

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Radius arm suspensions include only two control arms in total (and also a track bar); each control arm grabs the axle tube in two spots, usually one above and one below the axle tube centerline. This reduces axle twisting (axle wrap) under braking and acceleration, but it tends to want to twist the stiff axle tube under articulation, binding up and limiting wheel travel. Short arm five-link suspensions also bind at a certain point, but they’re known in the off-road community as offering the ultimate blend of street-ability and flex. (To be clear, plenty of Radius Arm suspensions flex quite well, but a five link is generally considered an improvement in this area).

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The Ineos Grenadier’s belly is well protected, with the cast aluminum transfer case housing tucked up above a sizable crossmember/skid plate. The fuel tank also features a ribbed skid plate, and the rear diff also looks well protected with a nice skid plate:

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The entire rear end is covered in steel, with the muffler protected and the only remotely vulnerable part being the short tailpipe.

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As for the body, it’s made of a blend of steel and aluminum.

Hardware wise, the Ineos is an off-roader’s dream. It’s got a beefy ladder frame, five-link solid front and rear axles, a torquey 3.0-liter turbodiesel, a competent eight-speed automatic transmission, lots of underbody protection, a low-range gearbox, locking front and rear diffs, and a big fuel tank.

It’s Not That Bad On-Road, It’s Sensational Off-Road

 

The Ineos Grenadier has an old-school key; throw that into the ignition just to the right of the steering column, and a bunch of lights show up on the dash.

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You have to wait a moment (presumably the engine is warming up?), then you can turn the key and the diesel fires up.

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Much of the information you’d want to see while driving is actually not just ahead of the steering wheel, but rather to the right on the center stack-integrated infotainment screen. Here you can see vehicle speed and gear position on the right:

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Speaking of gear position, the shifter is a typical BMW gear lever:

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The shifter works well; the transfer case lever, shown on the right, is a bit chunky and requires some getting used to, but it does allow for shifting from full-time four-wheel drive to part-time (i.e. it locks the center differential) while driving. You simply yank the lever to the right, and boom, your front and rear driveshafts are locked together.

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Aside from the slightly dainty shifter, the rest of the interior is chunky, and gives off a “mobile command center” vibe. The push-buttons and toggle switches up top (notice the front and rear differential lock switches) — protected by little metal bars to prevent accidental activation — are just cool. As are the simple pop-open windows up top:

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You sit up high in the Grenadier, and visibility over the hood is good.

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Looking out the rear is a bit more challenging due not only to the spare tire, but especially to the split rear door design.

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As the Ineos representative told me, that split rear door allows for quick access to some rear cargo without having to swing aside that big spare. It’s clever.

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You’ll also notice in the image before the previous one that the larger section of the rear door includes an accessory holder that doubles as a table. This accessory is a common one that Lexus GX owners add to their vehicles, so it’s cool to see it integrated here.

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Punching the rightmost pedal quickly puts distance between the truck and whatever was in that split rear window, but not too quickly. The Grenadier weighs nearly 6,000 pounds, after all, so 250 horsepower isn’t going to leave any rubber stripes on the pavement, but the 405 lb-ft of grunt made it clear that the machine was going to go where that nose is pointed, no matter how steep a grade. The power comes in a wave, forcing the vehicle ahead with confidence, even if the whole event is a bit more gradual than it is exciting.

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If I had to guess, I bet most car reviewers are saying the on-road handling is atrocious, but as a seasoned off-roader who drives vehicles with pretty much this exact same suspension setup, I’ll say the Grenadier’s on-road ride is acceptable, all things considered. Body roll is a little less than you’d expect, but the old-school recirculating ball steering box pushing those knuckles via a drag link and tie rod yields a bit of wandering. So you have to make some steering corrections every now and then to keep the truck going where you want it. It’s something I’m long inured to, but something that the layperson would definitely have to get used to.

The ride, no doubt aided by the long 115 inch wheelbase that means a bump doesn’t force the whole SUV to pitch up and down, isn’t bad. It handles expansion joints and cobblestones just fine, and overall, comfort of those Recaro seats seemed good. I also found the Brembo brakes adequate during my short drive; nothing weird going on there.

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The wandering steering could maybe be dialed in a bit better, but in some ways it’s just a byproduct of a solid front axle design, which pays dividends off-road. The Ineos Grenadier is a top-tier off-road beast. Its suspension is tough, and allows for solid wheel articulation over uneven terrain. What’s more, the vehicle’s short overhangs yield excellent approach and departure angles of 35.5 and 36.1, respectively. Over 10 inches of ground clearance and, specifically, the way the transfer case and exhaust are tucked high up into the frame, mean the breakover angle is great given the vehicle’s size: 28.1 degrees. For reference, the Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon has a better approach (about 43 degrees), a similar departure angle, and a worse breakover angle at less than 23.

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The BFG all-terrains gripped the dirty trail in the countryside outside of Frankfurt. The steepest ascent spun out a rear tire, but a quick push of the transfer case lever to the right locked the center diff, and sent power to the front axle, and the Grenadier climbed like a mountain goat.

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I couldn’t see a damn thing as I crested the hill, though:

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Obviously, my phone holder shown in the image didn’t help, but the big issue with a rather large vehicle like the Grenadier — which does have decent forward visibility, but still has a high hood — is that seeing ahead of of the vehicle as it crests a hill is extremely difficult. Modern off-roaders combat this issue by offering a camera somewhere on the front fascia; this should be standard on the Grenadier.

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@the_autopian

INEOS GRENADIER PART 2: THE OFF-ROADENING at last, David gets dirty with this fantastic 4X4 machine ???????????? #ineosgrenadiers #ineosgrenadier #4×4 #offroad #adventure #dieseltruck

♬ original sound – The Autopian

What I’d also like to see as standard equipment is a disconnecting sway bar. The Grenadier’s axles articulate well enough, but I have no doubt that an electronically disconnecting sway bar would increase that flex markedly. Were I to buy a Grenadier, I’d just make some sway bar quick-disconnects; Jeep folks have been doing that for years. It’s easy enough, and results in a setup that disconnects the sway bar with nothing but the pull of two pins.

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The Grenadier’s overhead switchboard includes an “offroad” mode, which turns off electronic nannies and lets you take your seatbelt off without the vehicle beeping at you! This is just awesome, as sometimes you need to hop and and out of your vehicle numerous times as you navigate terrain.

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The wading mode shuts off the vehicle’s cooling fans so you can hit some deep water without those fans bashing against the dirt fluid, possibly over-stressing the fans, and splashing water onto underhood components. Clever!

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I won’t pretend that I reached even 10 percent of the Grenadier’s capability, but as an experienced off-roader, I can tell you that it had a lot left in the tank. The open center diff means the large vehicle can make tight turns off-road (well, tight-ish, as the steering radius isn’t amazing — its 44 foot turning circle is about 5 feet larger than that of a four-door Jeep Wrangler), the underbody is incredibly well protected, the overhangs mean you can get up and down steep obstacles, and the tucked-up belly means cresting steep hills is no trouble. The axles flow beautifully over the terrain, the transmission works beautifully in concert with the torquey diesel to just walk the heavy beast up and over whatever is in the way.

The Grenadier is an incredible off-road beast. But it’s not perfect.

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Getting in on the passenger’s side is no trouble thanks to a grab handle, but that’s not there on the driver’s side, and using a steering wheel to get in is awkward and fairly useless if the car is on (since the wheel will spin). Also worth noting is that the rear camera quality is not great:

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My old off-roaders don’t have any cameras up front and out back, but my vehicles have much spindlier pillars. Plus, it’s 2023; it shouldn’t be hard to get some good cameras in there to improve off-road visibility, which is quite important.

@the_autopian

David’s headed for off-road action with the Ineos Grenadier and sharing his street-driving notes. Could you daily this beast of a 4X4? #ineosgrenadiers #ineosgrenadier #4×4 #offroad #suv #4wheeling #adventure #diesel

♬ original sound – The Autopian

So ingress, visibility, and lack of a sway bar disconnect are definitely areas where the Grenadier could see some improvement, but the biggest issue is unsolvable at this stage in the vehicle’s development: It’s just too damn big. Here, I’ll paste in that graphic again that showed the vehicle’s dimensions:

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It’s not just the fact that the Grenadier weighs almost 6,000 pounds, making it more prone to being stuck and remaining stuck, it’s also its dimensions. The Grenadier is 193 inches long, 81 inches tall, and 76 inches wide. That’s almost five inches longer, over seven inches taller, and over two inches wider than a four-door Jeep Wrangler.

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My biggest issue with the Grenadier is the distance between the rocker panel and the top of the roof. Ten inches of ground clearance is decent, but for a vehicle this long, I’d want to get those rocker panels a little higher off the ground. Look at the image above, and it doesn’t quite look ideal. The vehicle needs about a two inch lift and and slightly larger tire than the 265 70R17 (32-ish inch) tire on it. A small lift and 33s would be an improvement in my eyes, and given the Grenadier’s solid axle setup, a lift wouldn’t be tough to do, but because the roof is so high, I’d be concerned about making an already tippy vehicle even tippier. I’ve mentioned this critical rocker-to-roof dimension before:

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If you look at the Ineos side profile, especially in the brochure image showing the vehicle’s dimensions, you’ll notice that the rocker panel has been blacked out. Maybe this was done to minimize scratches to blue paint while off-roading, but I suspect it was done to reduce visual “weight” of that side profile. My colleague Jason Torchinsky raised that rocker panel a bit and modified the bumpers to fit, and in my opinion, I think it makes the vehicle looks tougher and definitely more capable:

Grenadier Leanedup

There seemed to be a few minor bugs with the Grenadier’s electronics (some of the lights on the panel just ahead of the steering wheel didn’t turn off when they should have), and there’s that footwell issue on the right side that I’m sure every journalist — especially in the UK — has mentioned:

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Legroom in the back is also not great, and the seat is basically upright, making the bench quite uncomfortable.

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This, the Ineos rep told me, is the case only on the cargo model, which — in order to avoid heavy taxation in certain European countries — must have a giant cargo space. This reduces second-row room. Ineos offers a non-cargo version that improves second-row comfort.

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So the Grenadier is a bit big, a bit heavy, its steering radius isn’t amazing, it could use a front camera, its rear camera could use some improvement, I wouldn’t mind a sway bar disconnect function, there are a few bugs here and there, and getting in isn’t particularly easy for the driver, but I just don’t care.

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A post shared by David Tracy (@davidntracy)

The Ineos Grenadier is an off-road dream. It’s built exactly how an off-road enthusiast would build an overlanding machine. It has a ladder frame, solid axles, a great five-link setup, a torquey diesel engine, tons of underbody protection, and just clever features throughout (see above). It’s imperfect, but I’m glad it exists. The fact that one can buy one of these things for $85,000-ish is just awesome.

I drove the Ineos Grenadier at the German Car of the Year event.

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Nlpnt
Nlpnt
11 months ago

Ultimately, if it succeeds everyone will be amazed that a startup brand of an IC-powered vehicle managed to make it in 2023.

If it fails, people will wonder why Sir Jim didn’t just get a Suzuki freakin’ Jimny.

More likely, it’ll be somewhere in between offering a much-needed competitor to the Mercedes G-Wagen Professional for EU government contracts.

Juan Butera
Juan Butera
11 months ago

It needs a 40 – 50 gal. fuel tank. My F150 has a 36 gal. tank. Surely they can find room for 40 gal. under the Grenadier. The Prado (GX460) in Oz has 22 plus 20 aux. option all hooked together so it seems like one tank.

Austin Vail
Austin Vail
11 months ago
Reply to  Juan Butera

Counterpoint: Smaller fuel tank means you have a valid excuse to carry jerry cans with extra fuel, making you look like a cool serious off-roader.

Utherjorge
Utherjorge
11 months ago

There is a gigantic problem with these that every journalist has been ignoring. I have yet to see it addressed. i’ve been bleating about it anywhere, or at least the places I go…and others are too.

I’ll ignore the known problems with the BMW drivetrain, or the massive oversight about the chicken tax for the pickup, or the embarrassing payload ratings for these.

Where will these be serviced?

There was some sort of noise about Bosch having auto service centers. I see none. Check out their site. Click on the button for whatever it says, “Find one near me,” or whatever. There are none. We’re less than 6 month out, and there are no dealers. Maybe BMW will do the engines, but I have seen no official confirmation, and that would have been trumpeted everywhere.

So, you’re going to buy a bespoke SUV with a questionable drivetrain and when something breaks, as it always does off road….where are you sourcing parts from? There is no solution to this concern.

As such, while it will still sell, I feel like this has a Freelander vibe to it. “Hey buy the cool new off-road rig!” And as the FL was designed to be disposable…it has no lasting impact on anything. So many better choices out there for much less money.

Methane generator
Methane generator
11 months ago
Reply to  Utherjorge

Right there on the website you mentioned, buddy.
https://ineosgrenadier.com/en/us/servicing-your-grenadier

“How To Service
Servicing Your Grenadier
We’re developing a network to service and repair your Grenadier in every corner of the world.”

See? Problem solved. They’re developing it. Don’t worry. ‘every corner of the world’.

And then the map *clearly* shows a whopping sixteen US states covered by service centers! Sixteen! And there are only four corners on the world! So they’re overperforming. I mean, nobody in New Mexico will mind *at all* having their Leyland farm vehicle trailered out to AZ, CO, or TX to get the BMW taxi engine fixed, will they?

Just get a Bronco

Utherjorge
Utherjorge
11 months ago

I mean, Bronco, or a Jeep (shudder), or an old or new GX….all of which can be serviced much easier, and will be much cheaper…I think?

Joon Choi
Joon Choi
11 months ago

I’m a middle-aged poseur with some disposable income who doesn’t really off road but loves true off road vehicles and doesn’t want to buy a Rubicon like every other poseur dad in the neighborhood. This vehicle is MADE for people like me. ????

Silent But Deadly
Silent But Deadly
11 months ago

I’m trying to want one but the LC300 exists at the same price point and, in Oz, has extensive dealer support…

Ana Osato
Ana Osato
11 months ago

“Porsche 911 is the perfect canyon-carver”

LOL! Come on, there are far superior sports cars to tackle that kind of territory.

Doctor Nine
Doctor Nine
11 months ago

I can get behind everything they did here, except that dash. OMG. Run away!

Do You Have a Moment To Talk About Renaults?
Do You Have a Moment To Talk About Renaults?
11 months ago
Reply to  Doctor Nine

Yeah, not just the dash, that interior does not scream “farm use” at all. It’s very disappointing that a vehicle like this didn’t go with a more stripped-down interior. I kinda like the absurdity of the overhead controls, but everything else just feels wrong. Those shifters are awful and look completely out of place. But I guess that’s bare-bones in a billionaire’s mind.

Phuzz
Phuzz
11 months ago

Mind you, have you seen what the dashboard of a modern tractor looks like?
https://stmaaprodfwsite.blob.core.windows.net/assets/sites/1/2020/07/MF8S_CabDetails_FR_0520-7560_171607.jpg

Do You Have a Moment To Talk About Renaults?
Do You Have a Moment To Talk About Renaults?
11 months ago
Reply to  Phuzz

Sure, but except for a few buttons and whatnot, that still looks spartan and basic in a way. It looks rugged and heavy duty, and form follows function. It wasn’t designed around a touchscreen (and still has one).

The Grenadier feels too much like a car you feel bad steeping into with muddy boots and dirty hands. Needs more heavy duty plastic in my opinion.

Widgetsltd
Widgetsltd
11 months ago

The wait-to-start thing is pretty standard stuff for a diesel: you are preheating either glow plugs or an intake air heater. Doesn’t your diesel minivan do this too?

Freelivin2713
Freelivin2713
11 months ago
Reply to  Widgetsltd

Yeah, I was like “David has GOT to know about glow plugs!”

Dogisbadob
Dogisbadob
11 months ago

Oh wow they’re actually making this thing! It actually exists! That’s the biggest surprise of all 😛

I’m surprised the gas engine isn’t an LSX lol

Should’ve used the Cummins 2.8 as the diesel engine and an LSX as the gasser…

Since they make them in Smartville, they should offer a mini Ineos (Mineos?) Smart ForTrail?

hehe they’re making a car with BMW engines in a Mercedes factory 😛

Last edited 11 months ago by Dogisbadob
GenericWhiteVan
GenericWhiteVan
11 months ago

I noticed that the test driver passenger had make multiple swipes to get that touchscreen to switch displays….and todays other news is how car buyers are not enchanted with the car ‘tech’ that new vehicles have.

The dash switches with the protection handles seem so poser.

I don’t overland or offroad, but I like to read posts on the Expedition Portal Forum https://forum.expeditionportal.com/ A lot of the people over there have some kind of 2 way radio (CB, Ham or GMRS) or a tablet or a cell phone (or all of the above) as ancillary electronics. Where to you mount these gadgets one on this thing? Dash is consumed with oversized knobs, buttons and handles, seems like you can’t hang a radio from the roof (more switches and sun roof)? A vehicle ‘designed’ for overlanding should have some built in provisions for the gadgets.

GenericWhiteVan
GenericWhiteVan
11 months ago

Something else…. payload is a big concern for overlanders…. what is payload compared to the competition?

Utherjorge
Utherjorge
11 months ago

it’s terrible.

Methane generator
Methane generator
11 months ago

Oh come on, there’s a second seat in the front and a whole second row that would never be used otherwise!

MrLM002
MrLM002
11 months ago

4 Door automatic only with a happy future of dealing with dissimilar metal corrosion

BigThingsComin
BigThingsComin
11 months ago
Reply to  MrLM002

You do know there are modern barrier solutions that prevent this, right? Hasn’t been a problem since the 80’s for things that are engineered correctly.

Carlos Ferreira (FR)
Carlos Ferreira (FR)
11 months ago

One correction, the Ineos factory (and where the Smart cars are also built) is in Hambach, Moselle, France, south of Saarbrücken but on the other side of the border, not in Hambach, Germany. It’s a 2:30 drive (242 km) between the 2 Hambach.

Last edited 11 months ago by Carlos Ferreira (FR)
Ana Osato
Ana Osato
11 months ago
Reply to  David Tracy

120 is barely the speed limit…?

Marteau
Marteau
11 months ago
Reply to  Ana Osato

Mp/h

Methane generator
Methane generator
11 months ago
Reply to  Marteau

Wow, so 1000 of the speed limit which is in kmph! It must be really bad on road!

Detroit-Lightning
Detroit-Lightning
11 months ago

I was gonna question why it’s so heavy, but i guess it’s about the same as a bronco raptor.

Love the old-school look of the cockpit/control center.

Last edited 11 months ago by Detroit-Lightning
Andrew Martin
Andrew Martin
11 months ago

There are some comparisons in the article, but I’d be curious to see a head to head between this and something like a 4-door wrangler. How does the capability compare to something mass market that can be had new for ~$30k less (in Rubicon trim with 35s).

UnseenCat
UnseenCat
11 months ago

If I could make two significant changes, it would be these:
1) Put a real, analog set of basic gauges in front of the driver. Tach, speedo, fuel, coolant temp, voltmeter and oil pressure. Put it all in a pod high up behind the wheel; it worked for decades on genuine Land Rovers.
2) Find a way to get rid of that fiddly BMW/ZF shifter gadget. Put in a proper simple P-R-N-D-L lever and add buttons elsewhere and/or a sequential position and left/right detents for manual shifts.

Pat Rich
Pat Rich
11 months ago
Reply to  UnseenCat

They wanted to replace the shifter, but found out that it was cost prohibitive for some reason. They didn’t want that fangly bit either.

Adrian Clarke
Adrian Clarke
11 months ago
Reply to  Pat Rich

It’s homologated from BMW as a whole system, along with the engine. They wouldn’t have been able to change it.

Icouldntfindaclevername
Icouldntfindaclevername
11 months ago

What I find strange. In the gas station walk-around video, everything is in English, including the Snack & Shop sign and you’re in Germany.

DadBod
DadBod
11 months ago

It’s all fake, like Capricorn One! Those clever bastards

Last edited 11 months ago by DadBod
Adrian Clarke
Adrian Clarke
11 months ago
Reply to  DadBod

It’s always Hal Holbrook, the shifty fucker.

Adrian Clarke
Adrian Clarke
11 months ago

Most mainland European countries, but in particular Germany, Norway and Sweden speak excellent English as a second language. The French do, grudgingly, I have a Norwegian friend and her English is perfect and almost without an accent,

Icouldntfindaclevername
Icouldntfindaclevername
11 months ago
Reply to  Adrian Clarke

Just very strange to see some local petrol (gas) station all in English
I guess they’re catering to the Tourists (aka David that speaks German) LOL

Methane generator
Methane generator
11 months ago

petrol (gas) ((benzine)), but pumping diesel (kerosene)

You know you can say ‘filling station’?

Usernametaken
Usernametaken
11 months ago
Reply to  Adrian Clarke

What happens when she needs to speak Pikey?

Adrian Clarke
Adrian Clarke
11 months ago
Reply to  Usernametaken

She’s the goth queen of Norway. She’s far too classy for that.

SLM
SLM
11 months ago
Reply to  Adrian Clarke

Il y a des lois en France qui obligent à faire la signalisation en français.????

Methane generator
Methane generator
11 months ago
Reply to  SLM

Yeah but the paperwork would take all week…

I suspect it’s something to do with it being on the autoroute. (The Autobahn is foreign.)

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
11 months ago
Reply to  Adrian Clarke

“Most mainland European countries, but in particular Germany, Norway and Sweden speak excellent English as a second language”

Pretty sure those foreigners speak “American”. Not proper ‘Murican though. That’s OK, nobody’s perfect.

Manuel Verissimo
Manuel Verissimo
11 months ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

Aoueur Engliche iz tope notche.

Phuzz
Phuzz
11 months ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

It depends, places close to the UK tend to use more British English. I guess it’s a depends on how easy it is for Brit tourists to get there.

EmotionalSupportBMW
EmotionalSupportBMW
11 months ago

Weird they named it after a British cycling team, suppose winning a Giro will do that. Just glad to see BMW finally has a G-wagon competitor. Maybe Mercedes will update the G-Wagon to look even older. Possibly some sort of stagecoach-eqse look, those where pretty good off road.

Last edited 11 months ago by EmotionalSupportBMW
Lokki
Lokki
11 months ago

Uhm…

grenadier: derived from the word grenade was originally a specialist soldier who threw hand grenades in battle. The distinct combat function of the grenadier was established in the mid-17th century, when grenadiers were recruited from among the strongest and largest soldiers. By the 18th century, the grenadier dedicated to throwing hand grenades had become a less necessary specialist, yet in battle, the grenadiers were the physically robust soldiers who led assaults, such as storming fortifications.

Last edited 11 months ago by Lokki
DadBod
DadBod
11 months ago
Reply to  Lokki

Uh I think that was in jest

V270
V270
11 months ago
Reply to  Lokki

whoosh

Adrian Clarke
Adrian Clarke
11 months ago

Ineos sponsors the cycling team.

EmotionalSupportBMW
EmotionalSupportBMW
11 months ago
Reply to  Adrian Clarke

Bring back the Sky Train! They haven’t been able to hook up the cabooses and drop the peloton since they changed title sponsors. It’s clearly this British oil magnate fault Chris Froome didn’t get 6 tours!

Lokki
Lokki
11 months ago
Reply to  Adrian Clarke

Ahhhh…okay then

Mercedes Streeter
Mercedes Streeter
11 months ago

That overhead panel looks ripped right out of an airliner, gimme!

In my 15+ years of loving Smarts, I never saw the Smartville factory doing anything other than building tiny cars. I remember when Smart marketed the facility as being super green and how the cars would get tested on that little track just outside.

Sadly, as David indicated, MB has given up on the facility and eventually, all Smart production will be moved to China. So, Ineos is keeping the place alive for sure.

Adrian Clarke
Adrian Clarke
11 months ago

I’ve seen a few people say the overhead switches are a useless gimmick, because you’d never be able to use them being bumped around off road.

TOSSABL
TOSSABL
11 months ago
Reply to  Steve P

Classic!
-and thanks for reminding me I need to watch it again.
”…I deny them my essence.”
”You can’t fight in here-this is the war room!”

DadBod
DadBod
11 months ago
Reply to  Adrian Clarke

Who cares, they look super cool

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
11 months ago
Reply to  Adrian Clarke

“I’ve seen a few people say the overhead switches are a useless gimmick, because you’d never be able to use them being bumped around off road”

Are you going to engage the diff locks while on the move?

Adrian Clarke
Adrian Clarke
11 months ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

The fuck do I know. I don’t get dirty. That’s David’s job.

Pat Rich
Pat Rich
11 months ago

I wish you had more information on the axles. I can’t find that information ANYWHERE! Ratios, ring gear sizes, FF or Semi in the rear (though I can guess), etc. Also, does it use open or closed knuckles?

You know my thoughts on Radius arm vs 5 link. 5 link flexes better but I think radius is laterally stiffer and a little easier to lift, at least for the first inch or 2. Based on what I’ve seen, I don’t think either design is the limiting factor, I think its spring and sway bar stiffness. It’s clear they are aiming for big payload figures and industrial use so that means that, unladed at least, it’s going to kinda suck at flexing out. I think people are going to get disconnects made pretty quickly for this. I don’t mind that its not in-cab disconnectable, I don’t think that is really its game.

Rzeppa joints are a nice touch. That’s a spendy item that pays off when you lift it.

People are going to be finding better muffler solutions. This one is just weird. 

I really hate that this utility vehicle doesn’t have a single analog gauge, but that everything is in a single digital screen in the middle. With software developed for this application. This software surely wont become a problem with ownership….

Just put a small speed display on the dash, make it digital even.

Splitgate is best gate. Asymmetrical barn doors aren’t my favorite but they are WAY better than a single lift gate or single side swing. If you have to have the tire on the back, this is an acceptable compromise. 

The geometry numbers for something this size are pretty damn impressive, especially a 28.1 breakover with a 115 inch wheelbase. That’s very good. I hear you about the rocker panels, but with a breakover like that, all you need is a little lift and tire and you are golden. I don’t think the height is going to make a huge difference in handling. 

Center diff – do you know if its open or Torsen or something else?

I LOVE that it turns off the seatbelt chime in off-road mode – but Im guessing it automatically turns it off after a set speed. Is it a latching switch at least so it reengages after you slow back down? I also LOVE that the electronic fans turn off with wadding mode, but again I would guess there is a failsafe there too where they come back on after a set time. Its crazy that Toyota is STILL using fan clutches, but honestly…they work for this exact reason.

As for handles on the drivers side. I used to think they were so dumb, until I broke mine and realized how much I used it getting in and out. I’ve also finally learned to use it off-roading to reduce head and body sway on really rough slow stuff. Night and day difference.

The only real downsides I see to the Grenadier are:

1.    Totally unknown quantity – no one knows if this will be g-wagen or Land Rover reliable in the field. What happens with software glitches and service?
2.    BMW bits – Honestly, this is where the cost and problems are going to come from. It’s going to be some BS cheap plastic water vane or something that is going to kill you.
3.    Sir Jim sorta made promises to build in the UK and then didn’t. I get why and it was the smart choice, but he bailed on his people. 

David Smith
David Smith
11 months ago
Reply to  Pat Rich

all you need is a little lift and tire and you are golden.

Why not just make that the default if that’s what makes it better?

Phuzz
Phuzz
11 months ago
Reply to  Pat Rich

The third point is particularly ironic as he was a supporter for brexit and “bringing British manufacturers back home” etc.

Lockleaf
Lockleaf
11 months ago

I find it fascinating that all of this was put together, seemingly competently, as an enthusiast vehicle, and the price point is sub $100K. I get that old defenders might start as low as like $30K when they were still on sale by LR, but when Ineos started talking about this vehicle, I was honestly expecting something that competed on price with MB G-Wagens. Its way too much money for me, and I’m not a hardcore offroader or LR fan in general, but I am way happy this is in production.

Chronometric
Chronometric
11 months ago
Reply to  Lockleaf

Agreed. I was waiting for a $150k sticker price.

Taargus Taargus
Taargus Taargus
11 months ago

Not my sort of vehicle, but still pretty darn cool. Enjoyable read.

Now maybe we switch gears and give that yellow Staria van a shot?

DadBod
DadBod
11 months ago

Yes please, I need more van porn

Man With A Reliable Jeep
Man With A Reliable Jeep
11 months ago

This article was worth the read, just to find out I can do a Dana kingpin upgrade on my JKU. The problem is that they don’t make them for the D30 (as best I can tell) only for the D60.

YMT09
YMT09
11 months ago

I cant seem to find any info on it, mind sharing where you found it?

Pat Rich
Pat Rich
11 months ago

Just a heads up on two typos I saw.
280 lbs-ft for the gas engine I am guessing should be 380. It would be sad if the twin turbo I6 only got 280.
The other is the wheelbase is 115 inches not 155. You can guess I have more to say, just wanted to give you a heads up.

V10omous
V10omous
11 months ago

Thoughts on pros/cons vs a Bronco Raptor, which I know you’ve also driven?

Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
11 months ago

Yet another vehicle that I have absolutely no use for, but still covet.

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