We got a lot of traffic and engagement yesterday over the new Honda Prelude Concept that just debuted in Tokyo. I wrote the piece and assumed, based on Honda’s own press release, that the vehicle was an electric car. It’s not. In what is one of the strangest corrections/clarifications in recent history, Honda PR had to tell everyone the car is actually a hybrid. That’s actually better news.
First, a little on how we got here. Here’s the only press info we had from Honda CEO Toshihiro Mibe’s press conference:
At the automobile electrification business briefing we held last year, I talked about future sports models. Today, to conclude my presentation, I would like to show you one of them – the specialty sports model.
Everyone, this is the Prelude Concept.
Honda has always been committed to creating sporty vehicles. And the word “prelude” means an “introductory or preceding performance.” This model will become the prelude for our future models which will inherit the “joy of driving” into the full-fledged electrified future and embody Honda’s unalterable sports mindset. The Prelude Concept is a specialty sports model that will offer exhilarating experience that makes you want to keep going forever and extraordinary excitement you never felt before.
I suppose Mibe doesn’t explicitly say the vehicle will be an electric car, but rather it will “become the prelude for our future models which will inherit the ‘joy of driving’ into the full-fledged electrified future…”
A hybrid is an “electrified” car but not a fully electric car, semantically. That’s super confusing and many people missed it, leading to this social media exchange between Honda’s Andrew Quillin and some car people online, including journalist/blue car enthusiast Joel Feder:
To clarify … Prelude Concept is hybrid-electric, not full BEV.
— Andrew Quillin (@andrewquillin) October 25, 2023
To be fair, I just reread the press release, or rather section of that press release, and am not sure how anyone would've known that. To have presumed it was a BEV seems fair given all the things.
— Joel Feder (@joelfeder) October 25, 2023
You’re absolutely right. Press Release did not specify.
— Andrew Quillin (@andrewquillin) October 25, 2023
Lol.
I’ve known Andrew for years and he’s always been a straight-up guy, and I appreciate that there was no mincing of words, just an admission that we weren’t all taking crazy pills and that it was actually unclear. Also, the text came from the CEO’s speech and not from American Honda Motor Company, the arm that Andrew works for.
Also, I didn’t see any exhaust in the shots of the car, but it’s just a concept so that’s not always a given.
Now that we’ve gotten that cleared up, I think this is excellent news! I love hybrids, and almost all of the hybrid sports cars have been on the extremely expensive side (McLaren Artura, Porsche 918 Spyder, Lexus LC500h). [Ed Note: I’m also pumped about a hybrid Prelude! Hybrids are palatable for lots of folks not ready to go all-EV; they delete range anxiety, and they still can save you a ton on gas. I’m hoping for a plug-in with over 35 miles of range, but the battery packaging to pull off that range could be tricky (and it could add too much cost). -DT].
The Prelude has always been a way for Honda to either preview technology for the company’s more expensive cars OR democratize some of the features from vehicles like the Acura NSX. Given that the outgoing NSX was a hybrid, some combination of the Civic SI’s 1.5-liter four-cylinder combined with two of the rear motors from the NSX would make for an AWD car that produces around 280 horsepower and probably returns good mileage.
I love it. Build it tomorrow, please.
I saw this news earlier this morning, and was very pleased to see it. This makes me actually interested in this, and I want them to build it NOW. Especially if it’s a 35+ mile PHEV. That would be pretty much EXACTLY what I am looking for.
I would like to see two main powertrain options from this vehicle:
1) One replacing the OG Insight focused more in the economy, kind of like a sporty Prius market. Manual transmission
2) The real sport version, still able to get +35mpg and compete with the VW GTi
Ok wake me up so I can stop dreaming lol
So what happens if this is the CR-Z all over again? Like, current Accord Hybrid setup, CVT and all?
The current Accord hybrid has no CVT. It’s a series hybrid with a 181hp motor and a single fixed gear for parallel operation around 55 mph.
It’s a very good system.
I’ve seen a few 0-60 onboards of the Accord on YouTube and it looks like they imitate 3-5 gear changes, at least in sport mode. I wonder if it’s different (faster?) in normal mode?
Is it? Honda’s website calls it a, eCVT for all models of the accord hybrid?
eCVTs are not belt CVTs like in a Subaru or Nissan. They’re planetary gear sets that connect the various electric motors and gas powerplant to the wheels to ‘unify’ the power sources, so it’s technically ‘continuously variable’.
https://youtu.be/QLUIExAnNcE?si=8RT5SgEg-fnBVJn6
The Honda hybrid system isn’t a crappy belted system, nor is it a planetary gear system.
Honda’s system is a fully unique series/parallel hybrid system that performs smoothly in all driving conditions, without the goofy “I’m a hybrid!” feel of the Toyotas and others. No belted CVT will ever be this composed. I suspect the Toyota hybrids are just a system tune away from feeling as good as the Honda system, but for now, the Hondas are the hybrids to benchmark for driving pleasure.
The term eCVT is useful in the functional sense, but misleading in the technical sense. There is no transmission, and unlike most other “eCVT” hybrids, there is no planetary gear set.
Honda’s system is a true series hybrid system. The engine has zero mechanical linkage to the wheels, it just turns a generator while a motor turns the wheels. In the rare circumstance that the wheel speed matches the engine speed, a fixed ratio gear can engage and allow the engine to work in parallel with the motor.
Alex on Autos has a good rundown of how this works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P_VChtMGK8
I’m fond of Honda’s system because, in my experience, it has excellent responsiveness and torque in a way that most hybrids don’t.
I’m worried that once this car does reach production, it will just have the typical Honda 2-motor hybrid system seen in the Accord and CR-V. I mean, sure, 204 HP sounds OK for a compact coupe, but I wouldn’t call this powertrain invigorating… If they manage to pair it with a manual, on the other hand…
I’m assuming that this is the reason why Honda dropped the Civic coupe from the lineup of this generation. So this is probably previewing what would have otherwise been a Civic Si Hybrid Coupe
Wow, even better news!
I’m still skeptical that it will be reasonably priced, and that Honda will make enough so that dealer markups don’t keep normal people away. But now it’s just ever so much more likely that this car will exist in the real world, rather than only in theory like the CTR.
So my comment on the previous article about hoping they don’t CR-Z the thing is now even more justified. I’m stoked about it being a hybrid, I just hope they make it a FUN hybrid instead of…what the CR-Z was.
With it being a coupe, hopefully that means no one will be interested in it so one can buy up at msrp or less
A Honda enthusiast car at MSRP or less? Pass me some of what you’re smoking!
I can’t even get a Honda CR-V at MSRP!
The other good thing to me is that it will probably MSRP less than a EV?
We can only hope.
Or it’s an affordable PHEV that some how qualifies for tax credits…or at the very least they should use the lease loophole for some pretty generous incentive.
Be still, my heart. I just hope that we’ll actually be able to get them at anywhere near MSRP, because between Honda’s abysmal dealership network and JDM Bros’ endless thirst/willingness to pay markups, I have a bad feeling that this will suffer the same fate as the current CTR.
Which, by the way, is still selling at around $10,000 over asking. I really wish Honda would step in and do something but I don’t think they want to. At the end of the day getting an $10,000 per car is great for business.
CR-Z 2.0 (but maybe good this time)
Well that clarifies the proportions for sure.
It also means this is the new CR-Z and not the S2000 coupe I was hoping it’d be. I do hope the electric motor(s) are in the rear. Hm.
If it is a Hybrid I very strongly hope they give us a manual option, or go the other direction and go full EV, anything in between (auto/CVT only hybrid, etc) just feels like a missed opportunity.
This is quite interesting-if they play this right would be the first “affordable” performance hybrid-a genre that seems a little overdue.
That’s rad! The thing is pretty, and while I am by no means an EV hater, I’m not ready to jump into the full electric game. A hybrid though? Hell yeah. Give me 40ish miles of EV range for my daily bombing around town, and a gas engine for longer trips, and I’m about that!
I’m really hoping that while EVs are still a bit bloated in price we’ll start to see economical hybrids fill in the holes below EV pricing
Yes, same here.
I’ve been doing a lot of reading about Honda’s new hybrid system but I can’t figure out if the primary ev motor is between the engine and gearbox like it was in the old system from the CRZ… If it is, could this have a manual option??
Interesting idea. Ok with that in mind maybe I do want it to be FWD, I was thinking an electric motor on the rear axle making it AWD, but if I can get it in manual, I think I could go for FWD
I’m in the same boat – I doubt I’ll be in a position to buy one any time soon, but my hopes are either FWD manual, or AWD. AWD manual would of course be awesome but I doubt that’s in the cards. Either way though, this car (and the others that have been announced lately) make me actually really hyped about the car industry right now
Yeah, lots of cool concepts rolling out right now. The 2 cars I am most excited to check out in person right now though are not sports cars for like the first time ever. I am very excited to see the new Volvo EX30 and the ID Buzz. If I can swing for one of those I will be a happy man!
I was working at VW dealership when the Buzz was first announced (and when the North American model was too) – I’m a bit concerned about the price point and they seem to have skimped on versatility, but I haven’t seen one in person yet to say for sure
Really? What versatility do you think they’re missing? The dimensions are similar to my current Sienna, but taller, from the pics it looks like while the seats will not fold into the floor as my third row can do, they are likely removeable, so that counts for that. I agree it’s pricey, but if I were to get a new Sienna I would be lucky to do so under $50k, so an extra $5k or so to not use gas is not a deal breaker. I’m cautiously optimistic for sure. We’ll see what happens.
I should clarify – I was thinking more in line with the concept and what people came to expect from previous VW vans. The trunk floor not being level with the folded seats, rear windows not rolling down, 2nd row not being as adjustable as promised.. lots of unrealistic expectations (barring the windows – that’s just bullshit) but definitely left a sour taste in a lot of people’s mouths from what I’ve seen
Actually I’d be willing to bet that a manual will be the only option. Honda doesn’t have a good automatic outside of the DCT in the NSX and there’s not really any reason for them to try to develop one at this stage. Their enthusiast cars have been manual only pretty much across the board for decades now.
If they’re willing to completely forego an automatic in a car like the Integra Type S I don’t see why they’d care about offering one in this. Manual transmissions are a bigger part of Honda’s brand identity than just about anyone else’s and they’re going to ride it until they can’t anymore.
Book it. This car will be stick. And they’ve already figured out how to pair a manual with a hybrid in the CRZ. I’ll bet this is a front wheel drive ICE vehicle based around one of the sporty Civic engines that will have an independent rear electric motor for all wheel drive.
They haven’t had a hybrid with a manual since the CRZ, and that was a pathetic excuse for a hybrid, so I don’t think they have anything that would be compatible, and I don’t know that they will develop a powertrain just for the Prelude, though Honda has been more prone to developing single use parts than Toyota so who knows. I hope you’re right.
I just can’t imagine Honda selling an enthusiast car with a legacy name and not offering a manual. The only time they’ve really done it that I can think of is the current NSX, which was pretty universally disliked and took a ton of flak for not being a manual to boot. You can’t even get automatics in any of their enthusiast cars that aren’t Acuras, and even Acura offers sticks in the Integra and it’s the only transmission available in the Integra Type S.
Manuals are a huge, huge deal to them and their customer base. Like I said, I don’t think there’s a company as synonymous with “manual transmissions” as Honda. I suppose you could say Porsche, and Toyota also insists on sticks in all their enthusiast cars, but when people think Honda they think of manual transmissions.
Man if I can trade in my manual Accord coupe for a manual hybrid Prelude coupe I’m gonna be dancing in the streets and hugging strangers all the way to the dealership
Stop teasing me!
NOW I can be excited for this. I had no interest at all in pure EV form.
EV’s are fine, No problems with them, but they are just not ready for prime time.
The Acura MDX SHAWD Hybrid or whatever it was called had a 7 speed DCT…. no reason they couldn’t stuff a 6 speed in there. As long as they do it better than the CR-Z.
When are they accepting deposits??
As far as I can tell, the concept only has one fuel door, so it is unlikely to be a PHEV, which is too bad. But if they make this as an electrified Si, I am very interested.
I’m not the biggest Honda guy in the world, but one thing I do admire about them is their dedication to the 2 door.
They held onto the Accord and Civic coupes far longer than segment competitors did, and the fact that they may bring another mainstream coupe back to market is a great thing.
Honda went down this road before with the CR-Z. Hopefully the new Prelude will be more successful than that sporty hybrid.
I can’t help but think they over estimated the interest in a CR-X revival-a car I think was a hit due to right time right place combined with solid dynamics that was no longer meaningful when the CR-Z came out. Depending on where this car lands as a performance hybrid I could see myself being sort of interested…
Also, the CRZ wasn’t all that great about recapturing what really made the CRX special, enthusiasts who might have welcomed the idea were sort of cold to it, while people who just wanted a fuel efficient commuter bought Prii
I worked at a Honda dealer (service not sales) when the CRZ dropped, and the excitement was huge, we had tons of people coming in every day to check them out. I think it had the potential to be successful, but the fact that it was a hybrid that got 36 mpg compared to the bigger, heavier civic that got like 32, where’s the benefit from the hybrid system? It was a complex car with nothing to show for it. Had they gotten 40+ out of it, or if it had power then I think it would have been mildly successful, but they just took the insight powertrain (yet somehow only got 36 vs 40) and slapped it in a CRX inspired body and hoped it would print money.
The CRZ just didn’t have a home. It wasn’t fast and engaging enough for enthusiasts and it wasn’t efficient enough for the traditional hybrid crowd. It wound up being less than the sum of its parts…more or less a hot hatch that wasn’t hot and a hybrid that wasn’t particularly efficient. Worst of both worlds, if you will.
I didn’t realize the MPGs were so low on the CR-Z. If they had gotten 40+ MPG, it would have been an ideal commuter car for millions of people.
First gen insights get 60-80mpg.
Ugh one drove by on my bike ride today and looked in terrific shape. I still really really want one. I drive in and out of NYC for work and seeing my gf a lot these days, would be pretty great to just slog through miles more efficiently plus who can turn down a nice Honda MT
Agreed. I wanted one, but there was just no benefit and it wasn’t even that fun to drive.
Nail on head. CRZ was pointless.
Interesting, makes sense. An example of what I like to call the “unhappy medium.” Also don’t forget the Fit existed, which had a barely bigger footprint, was solid to drive if not exactly an outright enthusiast car, held more stuff and would get pretty deep into the 30s on mpg. I didn’t realize the hybrid system was so meh, even for the time that doesn’t seem impressive wasn’t the Prius rated at like 45+ in city driving? I also can’t help but wonder if once the initial excitement was over if sales would have sustained, 2 door cars have been waning in popularity for 20-30 years now.
Imagine they’d split the CRZ into two versions, one with 40+ mileage and one with a peppy turbo 4 banger instead
This thing…. man, I hope it is as good as it looks it could be. I am a life-long Prelude super-fan. If this lives up to its potential, I will be among the many, many, many people to buy one.
This means it has the potential to be reasonably affordable and also means I want one
I want to know what kind of hybrid system it has in it. In some ways this intrigues me more than if it was just BEV.