Home » Who Is Chuck Browning? The UAW Negotiator Behind The Ford Deal

Who Is Chuck Browning? The UAW Negotiator Behind The Ford Deal

Chuck Browning
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Bombastic United Auto Workers President Shawn Fain has gotten all the attention for his “eat the rich” shirts and prop trash can. If you weren’t paying attention, you might have missed the person standing next to him. That’s Chuck Browning, and after the UAW’s historic contract with Ford yesterday, you should probably know who he is.

What’s interesting about Browning, and we’ll get into it, is that he doesn’t come from the reform caucus that narrowly won a majority of seats in the last UAW election, he comes from the old guard.

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The old guard is alive and well at the automakers, too, and there’s been a shift in tone from many of them since GM’s announcement it would slow its electric vehicle plans. Automakers are starting to admit, both in word and in deed, that the EV transition isn’t going to be easy. In fact, it might be extremely hard and it’ll be gas-powered cars that pay for the transition.

Meet Chuck Browning

It feels like ages ago, but earlier this year was a close and extremely divisive UAW election, with the old guard (who were part of a group that found many of its members ending up in prison for embezzling union funds) just barely losing out to a reform caucus. It was close and it was nasty. One senior member of the old guard (the Administrative Caucus) who made it through was UAW-Ford VP Chuck Browning.

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So who is this guy?

Browning is a Michigander who joined the UAW in 1987 as a worker at the then-Mazda plant in Flat Rock, Michigan. As a UAW member he worked his way up, according to his official biography, through the ranks of the organization:

Browning was appointed to the staff in 2000 by, UAW President Emeritus Stephen P. Yokich as an International Representative and assigned to the union’s National Ford Department. He rose to Coordinator, Assistant Director and then Administrative Assistant within the National Ford Department.  His responsibilities included collective bargaining, contract administration and oversight of various departments under the jurisdiction of the Vice President of the union’s National Ford Department. 

There’s been so much attention lately on the Hollywood strikes (WGA/SAG-AFTRA) and the huge deals workers got out of both Delta and UPS that it’s easy to forget the massive John Deere strike in 2021 that the UAW successfully negotiated. And who was helping lead the negotiations there? Chuck Browning, who also was director of the UAW’s agricultural unit. The workers actually rejected multiple contracts at the time, which was an early indication of the mood generally amongst labor.

In spite of, or perhaps because of, his long history, Browning’s attracted some criticism. The Administration Caucus (basically a party within the union), of which he was a member, has long been accused of being too cozy with automakers. Here’s a piece that mentions Browning from the World Socialist Web Site, an outlet we don’t often quote in The Morning Dump (they’ve never written a good car review), but is one of the few publications regularly covering the labor movement:

After the retirement of Bob King in 2014 Browning became the top aide to UAW President Dennis Williams, receiving approximately $150,000 a year for the position of “executive administrative assistant.” In 2015 Williams helped ram through a corruption-tainted sellout agreement at the Big Three automakers that opened the floodgates to temporary and part-time workers. It later emerged that Norwood Jewell, then vice president in charge of Fiat Chrysler, the successor to Holiefield, took bribes along with other UAW officials in a scheme to obtain management-friendly contract terms.

During his tenure Williams and other UAW officials concealed hundreds of thousands of dollars in improper expenditures, including extended vacations at private villas, golf outings, lavish meals and other expensive perks, billed to the UAW for “union business.”

Most of the accusations are of the guilt-by-association variety and it’s key to note that in the 18 months since that article, Browning has been reelected to his position and hasn’t been publicly charged with anything.

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In the video at the top of this article, Browning speaks before a divided UAW national meeting just a day after Shawn Fain, a competitor to his slate, was sworn in. He says:

“Elections are a nasty, hard process. I really want to thank not only the people that won, for making the sacrifice to put yourself out on Front Street, have stuff said about you… and dammit, some of it might be true, right?,” he said, addressing the elephant in the room. “And I also want to thank those that aren’t up here today, that gave it a shot because they believed in something.”

It’s against this background that some assumed that Fain, who only won by a few hundred votes, didn’t have a mandate from workers to lead an aggressive stirk strategy. As recently as July, auto critic John McElroy made that point in an editorial:

Look, I get what the union is doing. You get elected to union leadership, not appointed. Fain and his slate are politicians, just like any Democrat or Republican running for office. They need to convince their members that they elected the right leaders. And their members may not be so sure about that. Remember, Fain won the presidency by the slimmest of margins, only 0.4%. Worse, 86% of UAW membership did not even bother to vote in the election, based on the returns that the union publicly posted. So, Fain really doesn’t have a mandate, and that’s one reason why I think he’s staking out such a belligerent strategy to rally his membership.

That’s why I’m convinced there’s going to be a strike this fall. If it lasts a couple of weeks, the damage can be contained. But if it drags on for months, the damage could be crippling, and not just for the car companies. With the approach he’s taking Shawn Fain is playing with dynamite and it could blow up in his face.

It seems to have worked thus far, though there’s still the risk that the concessions the car companies are giving will cause costs to rise so high that Ford, GM, and Stellantis are no longer competitive and have to start shutting down plants. I’m not convinced that’s the case yet, but it’s a possibility (I think, as always, prices will just be passed on to consumers).

This gets me back to something else that Browning said at that meeting earlier this year in the video at the top of this post:

“We have major, major negotiations coming up. Major negotiations. And I’ve been reading some of the crap–I actually did do a little reading, it’s good for me–about things they’re saying: that this is a divided house, or we’re not united, or when we debate on the floor there’s winner or losers, or we’re gonna try dominating each other, or that we’re going to be a damn mess going into negotiations. It’s bullshit.”

It does seem like the mix of the old guard, represented by a more conciliatory leader like Browning, with the new guard, represented by Fain, was a winning combination this time.

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‘This Is A Pretty Brutal Space” Admits Mercedes CFO

Maybach Eqs Driving
Photo: Mercedes-Benz

A friend who has worked with a few large automotive brands the other day pointed out that automakers are “addicted to a margin.” That’s absolutely true. This is why Ford, GM, and Dodge will make pickup trucks and full-size SUVs until everyone stops buying them or the government makes them stop.

Because of their huge lead and large volume, the Tesla Model Y and Model 3 are still among the most profitable (on a percentage basis) vehicles on the road, which is impressive given that they’re both (relatively) lower-cost electric cars.

Almost no one outside of China has been capable of getting Tesla-like margins on their EVs and all the price cuts and margin battles are starting to get tougher for automakers to swallow as demand seems to be stabilizing.

Mercedes-Benz announced its third-quarter results and they weren’t great, with a 1.4% drop in revenue that the company ascribed to “a subdued market environment marked by intense price competition, particularly in the electric vehicle segment.”

Here’s the money quote, via Reuters, from the brand’s CFO Harald Wilhem on the earnings call:

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With some traditional players selling battery electric vehicles below the level of internal combustion engine cars despite their higher production costs, “this is a pretty brutal space,” Harald Wilhelm said.

“I can hardly imagine the current status quo is fully sustainable for everybody,” he said.

Some of the company’s problems also stem from a shortage in the 48-volt systems supplied by Bosch, according to the company.

VW: I Guess We’ll Keep Doing This

Cs Idbuzz Windmill
Photo: Jason Torchinsky

Over in Wolfsburg, things were maybe slightly rosier, with Volkswagen reporting both an increase in sales and an operating return on sales of 6.2% for the third quarter. Unfortunately for investors, the company had to cut its estimates for profitability for the year, with CFO Arno Antlitz saying “We cannot be satisfied with our profitability, which in the third quarter fell short of our ambitious targets.”

The company also said in its sales report that it’ll keep moving forward with its electrification strategy:

Deliveries of battery electric vehicles (BEV) increased by 45 percent to 531,500 vehicles in the first nine months of the year. Their share of total deliveries increased to 7.9 percent in the first nine months and represent a 9.0 percent share in the third quarter. This means that the targeted annual range of between 8 and 10 percent of total deliveries remains firmly in sight. From January to September, Europe remained the main BEV growth driver, with an increase of 61 percent to 341,100 vehicles. In the U.S., BEV deliveries rose by 74 percent to 50,300 units, and in China, they exceeded the previous year’s level with an increase of 4 percent to 117,100 units.

No one knows for sure where EV demand will end, so forward is maybe as good a strategy as backward.

Fisker Dropping/Raising Prices Of Ocean

Fisker Ocean 2
Photo: Fisker

I’m anxious to drive a Fisker Ocean because it’s a new electric vehicle that is technically on the market, but I’ve never seen one. It also utilizes contract manufacturing, which I think is an interesting path for smaller EV startups.

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With Tesla cutting back on prices, Fisker is now adjusting prices variously across its range according to Automotive News:

After the 11 percent price reduction, the Ocean Extreme will now start at $61,499, excluding shipping. Fisker said on its website that shipping charges vary by location and other factors.

The EV startup said the $7,500 price cut applies to both new and existing orders. The Ocean is manufactured for Fisker by Magna Steyr, in Graz, Austria. The Ocean doesn’t qualify for the $7,500 federal EV tax incentive because it’s not made in North America. The top trim of the Tesla Model Y crossover starts at at $54,130, with shipping, and qualifies for the EV tax incentive.

At the lower end of the spectrum, Fisker will raise the price of its mid-level trim by $3,000 to $52,999 and its entry-level Sport model by $1,000 to $38,999. None of those prices include a destination charge.

The Big Question

It’s all well and good that Ford and the UAW have come to a deal, but the big question is: Will Ford’s members ratify the contract? It seems like there are historic gains here and that may be persuasive. At the same time, UAW employees working for Mack Trucks rejected a negotiated contract and went on strike. What do you think, generally, about the tentative agreement in regards to Ford’s competitiveness with non-union shops?

 

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Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
7 months ago

I saw a Fisker Ocean on the road 2-3 weeks ago. The shade of blue is beautiful.

Ryanola
Ryanola
7 months ago

Look for auto production to move to Mexico. UAW gain is short sighted and, I predict, short lived. We’ll see production migrate south due to labor costs. Though the carriers can technically afford the labor costs now, there are tough regulations on the horizon for which compliance will be costly. Automakers are beholden to profits for shareholders. And themselves. Fain will claim victory missing his nose.

Lockleaf
Lockleaf
7 months ago
Reply to  Ryanola

Where the UAW now has strike allowance over closed plants does change the discussion a bit around “offshoring” production. However, if there are not requirements around how much production, it seems like Ford could downsize a plant, build 7 cars a week at that plant, and still be meeting the technical requirements of the UAW agreement. Then offshore the other 300,000 odd vehicles to a foreign plant.

Dinklesmith
Dinklesmith
7 months ago
Reply to  Ryanola

That’s the point of striking over a plant closure. Unions are one of our only tools to stop offshoring while still building a middle class

Space
Space
7 months ago
Reply to  Dinklesmith

Tarrifs could stop offshoring, or a tax credit like what they did for EV’s.

My Skoda is the Most Superb
My Skoda is the Most Superb
7 months ago

Here in Atlanta I just so happened to be driving through one of our posher neighborhoods when I spotted a Ram 3500 with a car carrier trailer hitched to it with two Fisker Ocean Ones on it. They were in the middle of delivering one of them at this very large and very nice house in this neighborhood. I hate to say it but I think they look pretty cool in person. I even managed to take a pic of the trailer as it was merging onto I-75.

Ottomottopean
Ottomottopean
7 months ago

I think, as always, prices will just be passed on to consumers

Ok, I’m not sure how serious this comment is but there are real concerns about these costs going up that are not imaginary, but I’ll admit I don’t know how these cost increases compare to others across the global industry.

If you have these three auto makers with new, fat contracts for their employees and the associated labor costs increase to be significantly higher than those paid in Germany, Japan, Korea etc then you will be at a competitive disadvantage.
If those competitors choose to fight you and lower their costs to gain market share you will then have some decisions to make:

  • Do you lower the returns you give back to your shareholders? (not likely)
  • Do you lower executive pay? (likely in the fact that stock prices will fall)
  • Do you offer incentives reducing profitability? (likely at least short term)
  • Do you reduce staff, lower orders from suppliers and cause an industry ripple effect? (sadly, probably at least where labor contracts allow you to cut shifts)

So, you can’t always just pass this on to consumers if those consumers have other options.

Again, no idea if the German or Korean auto workers are making anything close to what those in Detroit make but a lot of people making a lot less are building cars in Georgia and Alabama and other places so don’t just think these costs are easily absorbed.

Harmanx
Harmanx
7 months ago
Reply to  Ottomottopean

Sandy Munro sees a historical precedent for the UAW causing American car companies to shrink: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CMFRtFksjo

I guess the fear is that employees will be paid better in the near term, but at the expense of losing their jobs permanently in the long term, as companies sell fewer cars due to greater cost.

Datanerd
Datanerd
7 months ago
Reply to  Harmanx

I’m skeptical of a mechanical engineer lecturing about economics. I think Mr Munro is putting the causality on the UAW and not on the fact that globalization was happening, and the laissez faire spirit in Washington in the 1970s and 1980s did nothing about it other than telling the machine workers and auto workers to go learn how to be programmers. Which is what we did again with NAFTA in the early 1990s and when the big wave of globalization hit with giving China most favored nation status in 2000.

There were winners and losers in both of these waves of globalization, and we promised to compensate the losers but we never did.

Last edited 7 months ago by Datanerd
Hugh Crawford
Hugh Crawford
7 months ago
Reply to  Datanerd

You have any idea how cheap programmers are in India? Almost as cheap as the cost of shipping.

Hugh Crawford
Hugh Crawford
7 months ago
Reply to  Ottomottopean

I don’t think “prices will just be passed on to consumers”

That implies that prices are currently set at less than what consumers are willing to pay, and the corporations are leaving money on the table. They aren’t stupid, at least in the short run.

Space
Space
7 months ago
Reply to  Ottomottopean

The returns for shareholders isn’t that good for Ford. Anyone who bought stock from 1998-2001 is still at a loss despite inflation. Whereas the broad NYSE on average gains about 9% per year. Long term Ford shareholders have been hosed.

Dogisbadob
Dogisbadob
7 months ago

Wait, the Fisker Ocean actually exists? 😮

Also, the UAW should’ve dropped the pension demands because pensions are expensive and outdated and the biggest cost dragging them down. Instead, ask for a huge 401k match. 10% dollar-for-dollar match plus an extra 10% (currently both are 5%). Even the higher amount would still be cheaper than maintaining a pension while still being a more generous benefit. Plus, it can’t be raided.

They should also demand a works council, where they actually get seats on the board. Yes, the executive board. Half of them can be labor. This model is successful in countries like Germany. The board members can even be elected like other UAW officers.

...getstoneyII
...getstoneyII
7 months ago
Reply to  Dogisbadob

Is your works council idea always on your clipboard, ready to paste into every comment regarding unions regardless of how irrelevant it is? Not being a dick, just asking.

Dogisbadob
Dogisbadob
7 months ago
Reply to  ...getstoneyII

LOL no, only the relevant ones 😉

Also, it’s not irrelevant when the article is about strikes and contract negotiations 😛

Parsko
Parsko
7 months ago
Reply to  ...getstoneyII

Works council idea is really brilliant. I agree with it 100%. ASML has one, and they get profit share checks as a result.

Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
7 months ago

Mercedes’ EVs are also ridiculous and stupid. They’re over-designed, overpriced, over tech’d, etc. I don’t think it’s necessarily that people don’t want EVs so much as I think it’s the fact that there are a finite amount of people who want ones that are ridiculous Jetsons-mobile bleeding edge technology showcases.

Too many manufacturers have gone with a MORE IS MORE approach to them and that’s off putting for a lot of potential buyers. I see plenty of Kona/Niro EVs, Volvo C40s, and stuff like that around and it’s because most people want an EV that’s the same to use and interact with as the ICE cars they’re used to.

Out of all the luxury brands trying their hand at EVs I think Porsche and BMW have the best formula right now because they’re essentially making versions of their normal cars that just happen to be electric. I know that EV Gang likes to bemoan electric vehicles that aren’t ground up designs but I’d much rather go to a BMW dealership and lease an i4 or new 5 series that are essentially the same as the regular versions of those cars than put myself in a tech hellscape every day.

Which brings me to one of my favorite dead horses…why are we not more focused on hybrids and PHEVs? Dealerships can’t keep them on lots right now. If you want a Toyota or Honda hybrid you’ll be waiting as much as a year and there are many classes of car that hybrids are conspicuously absent in. Why aren’t there more hybrid family haulers, for example?

If you want a new PHEV for under $45,000 or so the pickings are slim. It’s past time to use way more of our battery resources to standardize hybrids and PHEVs. BEVs are cool and I’m far from anti EV but just about everyone is coming to the conclusion that we put the cart before the horse…and throngs of enthusiasts are left shaking their heads saying “we told you so”.

If the end goal is actually to dramatically reduce carbon emissions then we have excellent technology that works right now. Getting more people in traditional hybrids or PHEVs that’ll allow them to commute on electricity makes a significant difference today.

Last edited 7 months ago by Nsane In The MembraNe
Lockleaf
Lockleaf
7 months ago

I’m a bit of a tech troglodyte, so your reference to these high end EVs being tech hellscapes is exactly how I think. I’m fine with tech that increases safety and utility. But there is so much tech for techs sake (more is more as you stated) that the concept of owning a vehicle like that is nearly painful.

Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
7 months ago
Reply to  Lockleaf

I’m more or less vaguely competent when it comes to tech solely because of my age. I’m 33 and grew up with the internet, social media (to an extent), everyone having a desktop in their house, cell phones morphing into small PCs, etc. But it’s never been something that I personally care about all that much, if that makes sense.

To me technology will always be a tool. If it improves my day to day and reduces my stress, then I think it’s useful. I’m typing this comment on an iPhone Pro, for example, and I have no plans to give it up. But if technology slows me down, gets in my way, and increases my stress?

No thanks. And when it comes to a lot of EVs it definitely would. My Kona N has the perfect amount of tech for me. The infotainment screen looks nice, isn’t laggy, and gives me a few neat features I wouldn’t otherwise have. It has a Harman Kardon audio system that sounds nice and improves my day to day enjoyment too. But every feature I interact with on the daily has a physical button or knob. I literally never have to take my eyes off the road.

I’m not sure why so many companies are sprinting away from that. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

Hoonicus
Hoonicus
7 months ago

“I’m more or less vaguely competent when it comes to tech solely because of my age. I’m 33 and grew up with the internet, social media (to an extent), everyone having a desktop in their house, cell phones morphing into small PCs, etc.”

How old and inept do you presume the readership to be? Steve Wozniak is 73! I’m fairly certain 99.99% of the readership has your above statements covered. I agree with your comment otherwise, just had to mention that part made me laugh. What a lot of people object to are always connected,not complete ownership,monthly payment heated seats,no right to repair, spying nonsense that seems to have spread throughout. ( I’ll be 60 in a few months, and had a part time job at used computers inc. in 1978)

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
7 months ago
Reply to  Lockleaf

But I NEED adjustable mood lighting in my car!

Hugh Crawford
Hugh Crawford
7 months ago
Reply to  Lockleaf

The unit cost of most of those bleeding edge jetson features, the software ones anyway, is approximately zero.

Strangek
Strangek
7 months ago

It reminds me a bit of early hybrids like the early gen Honda Insight and Toyota Prius. I always felt like “Hybrid huh? That’s cool, but why does it look like that?” For those I know there were real aero considerations, but it also felt like they wanted them to look like the future or something. The current BEV landscape is that times a million.

Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
7 months ago
Reply to  Strangek

Good comparison, particularly the Insight.

Dogisbadob
Dogisbadob
7 months ago

The compliance cars of the 2000-2010s were the best. They were just electric versions of regular cars. Their only problem was inadequate range.

PHEV and range-extended EV is the best thing to do right now.

Ottomottopean
Ottomottopean
7 months ago

I would argue that all vehicles today are being designed to meet a price point and profit margin before the “design to solve a need” is put in place.
All of the tech (any optional features and packages really) is put in for the purpose of increasing margin first, then to make the driver’s lives easier after.

Not to say it hasn’t always been this way realistically. But it does seem like the demands of the shareholder and the executives’ bonus compensation packages are driving the type of vehicles we see more so than anyone is analyzing market trends and consumer desire and attempting to meet that desire with product designed for it.

I’m not naive enough to think there was some golden age where this was the case, I think it’s always been a tug of war between the two. It just seems like lately the shareholders are winning that tug a bit more than they used to.

Jack Beckman
Jack Beckman
7 months ago
Reply to  Ottomottopean

Except that most EVs that aren’t Teslas aren’t selling for a profit; they’re been g subsidized by the ICE vehicles.

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
7 months ago

I’m waiting for the first manufacturer to offer an EV with all the right tech to make it reliable and efficient and stop there. Sure, you are mandated to have a back-up camera these days, but other than that, just have hand crank windows, simple old school HVAC controls, a plain DIN radio, no automatic ‘rain sensing’ wipers etc. Just pair it down to being a car, not a games room.

Parsko
Parsko
7 months ago

This. Give us a simple electric car. I think we are at peak and past the premium being the only option.

Lockleaf
Lockleaf
7 months ago

This is the DIY territory. I very much want to build my own EV in the future. I feel like my 1971 Datsun 510 wagon might be a great option. Maybe I can’t get enough battery in there though.

Adam EmmKay8 GTI
Adam EmmKay8 GTI
7 months ago

Maybe some toggle switches like in NASA vehicle, for like a radio, or rear defroster, next to 3 HVAC knobs. HVAC global puwer toggle switch could be called “Life support”.
You could use it to save power in EV with them – I’m sure today I won’t be using HVAC so you power it down…

...getstoneyII
...getstoneyII
7 months ago

It’s impossible to say how the members will vote until the full details are released on (supposedly) Sunday night. It also depends on how many high-seniority members there are vs. junior members, and if the contract benefits the majority as it stands for retirement.

In my personal experience, we ratified a contract that had huge upsides for those nearing retirement and also those at full-wage and vacation status. Also included was a fully retroactive paycheck for the 4 years we were working on the old contract terms. Those checks were a LOT of money. As a result of those positives, the contract actually extended the time to reach full pay by 2 more years, with the rationale being that we’d reverse it in the next contract. That didn’t happen, but the old-timers got their way and all of us at full pay got paid nicely.

My gut says they ratify it, but again, the devil is in the details that won’t be known for a few days yet.

Lockleaf
Lockleaf
7 months ago
Reply to  ...getstoneyII

I think there has to be some fatigue on the part of the longest strikers that might weigh on this as well. They are getting $500 a week for the entire time, which for some of these guys is a huge pay cut. How long they can survive on that pay cut has to be impacting their desire to see a deal made, especially when it appears to be pretty decent deal on the surface.

...getstoneyII
...getstoneyII
7 months ago
Reply to  Lockleaf

For some of them, no doubt the purse strings are pretty tight. However, a lot of those workers are just working more at their side hustles/under-the-table gigs or taking vacations. I mean, have you seen how many Lions fans have been at the away games? There is a whole band of UAW workers that have been following the team from city to city. They just borrow against their 401k and it gets offset by the raises.

Spartanjohn113
Spartanjohn113
7 months ago
Reply to  ...getstoneyII

The UAW also supposedly has a rule that if you have a second job, you can’t make more than $500/week from it or you lose your strike pay.

...getstoneyII
...getstoneyII
7 months ago
Reply to  Spartanjohn113

“Supposedly” being the loosely enforced operative word. Where there is a will there is a way, and a lot of ways to look the other way.

Lockleaf
Lockleaf
7 months ago
Reply to  ...getstoneyII

I haven’t seen the Lions away games, but that is awesome.

Brian Ash
Brian Ash
7 months ago
Reply to  ...getstoneyII

100% guaranteed the workers will accept it, surely there will be some fine print that nobody reads. Ford will immediately start figuring out how to screw them over the next 4 years and then we’ll go through the same drama again.

...getstoneyII
...getstoneyII
7 months ago
Reply to  Brian Ash

I’m gonna assume that you’ve never worked for a big union. The contract will be broken down on a macro level by the national leadership and then the local heads will dissect it word for word with the local members. Every single ramification and scenario will undergo a deep dive before the vote. No part of the contract will be glossed over.

Also, it’s probably extremely unlikely that it will be the “same drama” in 4 years because the industry’s needs and wants will have morphed by then.

Brian Ash
Brian Ash
7 months ago
Reply to  ...getstoneyII

Of course that will happen and the workers will still vote to approve it. Doesn’t matter if the interpretation of the contract is accurate or the workers grasp the meaning. Lets see what the vote is on the contract, 90% approval at least.

Yeah in 4 yrs we’ll see, because of this contract Ford profits suffer, they sell less vehicles, have less workers, and surely will find ways to screw the workers until then. It could be a nastier fight!

...getstoneyII
...getstoneyII
7 months ago
Reply to  Brian Ash

I’m not sure why you are being so stubborn about this. Every single detail in the contract will be interpreted correctly and fully understood by every member. There are billions of dollars at stake in all of this. It’s not like glancing at the T&C’s of a CVS Loyalty card.

Also like I said earlier, it’s impossible to predict how the ratification shakes out, particularly since the actual details haven’t been released yet. If you wanna hang your hat on it being a 90% yea result, have at it. But, your prediction as of now is about as accurate as who will win the World Series in 2025.

Brian Ash
Brian Ash
7 months ago
Reply to  ...getstoneyII

Fully understood or not, good or bad, my check goes up that much now, yep approved. Fully understood by all, yeah all the workers are geniuses, it will be explained to them, when they are asked do they understand they will just nod their heads salivating over their bigger paycheck next week.

...getstoneyII
...getstoneyII
7 months ago
Reply to  Brian Ash

You clearly don’t want to understand how any of this works and I’m not going to keep trying to explain it. Think whatever you want. I’m done talking with you on this topic.
Have a nice day 🙂

Last edited 7 months ago by ...getstoneyII
Brian Ash
Brian Ash
7 months ago
Reply to  ...getstoneyII

I completely understand. You are pretending to know how every person fells about the contract and if they understand or care about all the details. You clearly don’t know people.

Adam EmmKay8 GTI
Adam EmmKay8 GTI
7 months ago
Reply to  ...getstoneyII

Because none of these guys going to remember any of it by the time voting comes around.
Source: Ford just asked me last week for machine’s password we commissioned in September that they “need it to make EV transmission parts right now” but it was more like maybe in a year. Same person I showed how to use the password, same person who we trained including how to use that password…
It is not that union will gloss over the new deal terms. It is the eyes of their members getting glossy when they pretend to listen to understand the terms

Last edited 7 months ago by Adam EmmKay8 GTI
PL71 Enthusiast
PL71 Enthusiast
7 months ago

Allow me to propose a crazy concept:

Revenue and profit margins don’t always have to increase! It is perfectly reasonable to pass cost cuts on to the customer!

In fact is completely unsustainable to increase these things, because that results in stuff like massive financial downturns every 20 years!

Lockleaf
Lockleaf
7 months ago

Don’t you know if you aren’t growing you are shrinking? Apparently, just maintaining margin, revenue, market share, etc is FAILURE.

Honestly though, I think at the executive level, those numbers are two things. One, obviously, pay check. And two, they are points on the score board. Its a game, and for them, its all about winning that game. Mary Barra gets better numbers than Jim Farley? She gets to thumb her nose at him at the next big 3 country club event. And thats what really matters.

PL71 Enthusiast
PL71 Enthusiast
7 months ago
Reply to  Lockleaf

How do we solve this? If we pay them in money rather than company stock do they stop caring so much?

Lockleaf
Lockleaf
7 months ago

No I don’t think the change would be super significant in that instance. They are still held to the expectations of investors, but more so, I think the personal gratification from “winning” as a C suite executive is just a huge value. Its fun. For many of them, its their primary source of entertainment, since they often work themselves many long hours. Or perhaps, that is why they work themselves many long hours.

I think the only real way to change it is to change investors. You don’t see anywhere near that kind of excess pay in most of the private company arena (where we can get any info at all of course).

Brian Ash
Brian Ash
7 months ago

Unfortunately everything is driven by the stock market, you have to maintain your revenue and margins, if not the stock gets whacked. A majority of of executive pay is in stock so decisions are mostly driven by that, else they will be out of a job. No company cares about the customer or doing the right thing, if they say those things its all lies, its all about the stock price.

PL71 Enthusiast
PL71 Enthusiast
7 months ago
Reply to  Brian Ash

Yep. What sucks is that they’ll never see any downside to this. Even if the company implodes they’ll still walk away with their 10s of millions of dollars.

Brian Ash
Brian Ash
7 months ago

Absolutely happens very often. What’s interesting is that Ford stock is down today, so the market is not happy with the contract, the pressure will start immediately for Ford to find loopholes and ways to minimize the impact to profits of this contract. So higher prices, lower quality, and likely more recalls….

Man With A Reliable Jeep
Man With A Reliable Jeep
7 months ago
Reply to  Brian Ash

The stock market is well overdue for a plummet. The problem is, the government is so entangled in it now, because the stock market’s parasitic tendrils have ensnared the economy. Now, all three go hand-in-hand-in-hand. It’s like a game of Jenga, in which the removal of any 2 of the 3 blocks results in a collapse.

Drew
Drew
7 months ago

The Ocean seems like it could be a compelling value, being that size with that range…but it is really tough to spend that kind of money on something without being able to test drive or even just get inside it. And that weird rotating touchscreen gimmick doesn’t feel like it adds anything useful. At least it looks like there are some buttons below it, but not enough buttons and knobs for the number of functions I’d like on them.

Drew
Drew
7 months ago
Reply to  Drew

It occurs to me that David lives within a reasonable distance of a “Fisker Lounge.” Would the Ocean be something that David (or any other Autopian) could/would check out and write up?

JDE
JDE
7 months ago

My question is will the lost profits as a result of the strike play into the profit sharing checks they receive in the first quarter of the following year….this year?

MP81
MP81
7 months ago
Reply to  JDE

Yup, I believe they do!

Last edited 7 months ago by MP81
Andrew Wyman
Andrew Wyman
7 months ago

I finally saw an Ocean here in Portland. I was on the highway, so it was only for a second, but I definitely did a double take.

Nick Ginther
Nick Ginther
7 months ago

I’d be surprised if Ford members don’t ratify the contract. It seems like a big win for them. I also am curious to see how GM and Stellantis react now.

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