In some ways, it’s a great time to love cars. Internet aggregators have made it easier than ever to search for cars, 3D printing means out-of-production parts can be reproduced at home, and communities exist for just about every make and model. In some ways, it’s also not a great time to be into cars because the ones you like are probably getting more expensive. This week, car YouTuber and Cars & Bids co-founder Doug DeMuro published a first-quarter market report, and it seems like that trend is going to continue. In addition to stating that “The only way is up,” DeMuro wrote: “if you’re a few years away from your childhood dream car, but it’s clearly the truth: We’re witnessing rapidly escalating interest in modern enthusiast cars from increasingly wealthy modern car enthusiasts – and the start of 2026 certainly shoved it in our face.” While he does have an incentive for people to buy now, other data corroborates that now seems like a good moment to really take that stretch-goal dream car seriously.
Of course, this isn’t about chrome-bumpered machines of the 1960s. If anything, the values of those cars are generally softening. It’s also not about late-model stuff, as depreciation still hasn’t really sunk its claws into vehicles like the current-generation Porsche 911, the Toyota GR Supra, or the Audi RS 3. Instead, this is about cars after the detuned malaise era but before just about every power steering system under the sun went electric.
In the 1990s, cars became really rather good. The mid-decade inclusion of a standardized onboard diagnostics connector made repair easier, pretty much everything finally had electronic fuel injection so you could just hop in and go, and chassis rigidity had generally advanced beyond the wet noodle stage. At the same time, manual gearboxes were still quicker than automatics, natural aspiration was still the norm, and curb weights hadn’t ballooned to silly levels. The result is that as the hive mind’s definition of what makes a great enthusiast car coalesces around cars from say, roughly 1990 to 2010, we’re seeing multiple generations of enthusiasts competing for the same pool of vehicles.
When you have a large buyer pool competing for a finite number of vehicles, law of supply and demand suggests that prices are going to go up. As that happens, there’s a good chance that regular people like you and I might be priced out of our stretch-goal cars, whatever they are. I probably won’t have a TVR Sagaris anytime soon, just like how someone in their early thirties making $200,000 a year in total compensation is probably seeing the 2005 to 2006 Ford GT slipping further from their grasp. So what does this mean for more affordable cars? As DeMuro wrote:
For years, Gen Xers and Millennials swapped E36 M3s and NSXs on web forums for cheap, while Boomers garnered huge attention paying seven figures for certain rare 1960s Chevy Camaro models at Barrett-Jackson. Those days are changing. The next generation is making good money, now; the Boomers are passing down funds to younger heirs, and desirable vehicles from the modern era are making the switch from “used car” to “exciting classic,” as they become harder to find in anything resembling the condition we remember from the showrooms of our youth. Soon, we’ll be the Boomers paying $775,000 for a Chevelle, except the Chevelle will be an R34 Nissan Skyline GT-R, and the dollar figure might be higher.
A great example of this is the Mark IV Toyota Supra, often referred to by its A80 chassis code. The median hammer price on Bring A Trailer in 2018 was about $51,009. In 2026 so far, that figure’s been $91,954. While that’s down about $6,500 compared to the first four months of 2025, the sorts of examples we’ve seen in the marketplace have been different. Early 2025 was notable because a bunch of low-mileage cars went under the hammer. Often lower than the mileage on examples that have shifted this year. At the same time, the first few months of 2026 saw several right-hand-drive JDM imports sell on Bring A Trailer, which have historically held lower values than left-hand-drive U.S.-market examples. If we filter by left-hand-drive, the media A80 Supra transaction price on Bring A Trailer is actually up nearly $12,000 compared to the same period last year.
As for some of the sky-high bonkers auction results you’ve probably sent to your friends, the interesting part about outstanding hammer prices like that $125,500 manual V6 Porsche Cayenne from a few months ago is how a rising tide lifts … maybe not all boats, but certainly many. When buyers with big money to spend aren’t afraid to flex the might of their checkbooks on top-tier examples of cars, it has historically tended to raise the trend line for nice-condition, weekend-toy-spec examples. That ridiculous $205,392 result for an ultra-low-mileage stick-shift E92 BMW M3 probably won’t raise the values of rebuilt title, DCT-equipped convertibles much, but a string of strong results could have a meaningful impact on reasonably low-mileage coupes with manual gearboxes.
So if you don’t want to miss the boat, what can you do? Well, most of us have three options, the first of which is giving up. I usually don’t advocate for this in any avenue of life unless all other options are exhausted. On the one hand, if you can technically buy your stretch-goal dream car right now, but it wouldn’t be the most comfortable thing in the world, knowing that the money you spend on buying the car doesn’t just disappear is a little bit of solace. If you need to, you can always sell it later, likely for at least what you bought it for if it’s still in good working order.
Another option is financing, and this is where things can get a bit risky. While solid values mean you’ll need a much smaller down payment to not be underwater on a collector car, it’s important to leave enough liquidity to afford repairs and to make sure you’re willing to eat the interest in the event that appreciation doesn’t surpass the finance charges. Obviously, I’m not a financial professional, and this is not financial advice, but financing a collector car often requires a certain level of risk tolerance, but can be more stable than financing a new car at the same value for the same terms. I probably wouldn’t want to finance anything that’s out of warranty, but that’s just me and the way I work. Know your individual limit, play within it and all that. [Ed Note: I’ve always heard that financing a used car is more challenging than getting a good interest rate on a loan for a new car. Someone more literate in this area may be able to chime in. -DT].
A few years ago, I found myself in a similar pre-purchase-nerves position with what would become my Boxster. It was offered at a deal I may not have been able to replicate in the future and was in my dream color combination, but at that point, it was still more than I’d ever spent on a car before. I did my diligence, braced my bank account for impact, and haven’t regretted it. I love looking at it, I love working on it, I love the people I’ve met because of it, but perhaps most of all, I love driving it. Is it worth more than when I bought it? Surprisingly, a little. Would I sell my attainable dream car? Not a chance.
When it comes to buying fun cars that have already hit the bottoms of their depreciation curves, the best time to buy from a financial perspective is often yesterday, and the second-best time is as soon as you can realistically afford it, even if that depends on your definition of “afford” because it’s different for everyone. While not every car or indeed, every example of every car will see a substantial rise in value over the next few years, it’s an exceedingly safe prediction that the fuel-injected cars we like will probably get more expensive. If the one you want is within grasp and you won’t have to touch a rainy day fund, there’s no harm in taking a closer look today.
At the same time, these cars are a luxury, and in challenging economic times, rushing to buy a collector car may not be the move, either. And that’s totally fine; as much as we joke that it’s not the case, there are more important things in life than a crisp six-speed and the sound of an NA V8.
Top graphic image: Acura
my prediction: the bubble will burst in 2028…especailly when all the leases and finance deals from pandemic and post will stat returning…. there will be billions of negative equity and everage stupid american will go and still roll it forward until the same people who gave him yet another predatory loan will take his house
DeMuro sells cars online. He has a need to keep selling cars online. Just like I would take anything a stock broker says about the direction of the market with a trailer load of salt, I cannot in good conscience accept his pleading as absolute truth.
Nothing goes up for ever. Everything crashes sooner or later. Have we forgotten 2008?
If prices went down, he would need to say “great opportunity to buy”
THIS is the right take here.
I would be really surprised if he said “hold on to your butts and money and do not spend it as they cars will go down in value”.
and boy they will go down. BAT and C&B are not even close to the pandemic craze and they all upped for this capacity and now it is not making as much money as they want so….
I know Doug does have to sell cars, but I do think there’s a lot of truth to his words. At least when referring to clean, well-kept stock examples.
The generation that grew up idolizing 80s-00s cars is now coming into money as adults and more are in position to buy, so demand is high. There are also fewer of those cars remaining that haven’t been crashed or modified. And, even more importantly, regulations and market trends are reducing supply of new driver’s cars in favor of appliance vehicles – eg, the decline of the manual, NA engine, and at some point potentially the gas engine itself, as well as fewer new small and lightweight cars. And the remaining 80s-00s cars will continue to be wrecked, modified, and failing mechanically. Outside of the miata and BR-Z, it’s hard to find a cheap, simple, lightweight sports car without a ton of mechanical or electronic complexity.
While these cars may not go up forever, per se, I think they’ll be up for a long time. And they won’t fall as far as, say, classic “boomer-era” cars have, because there will be a finite amount of gas-powered, manual, whatever flavor of sports cars left, and they won’t exist someday. Except maybe the miata, maybe they’ll get it reclassified as a recreational gokart or something.
And 2006 seemed like a great time to buy a house.
Values are only going up!
Broadly true but there are always exceptions, and the value often lies there.
YMMV.
My sister just took a huge loss on her husband’s very nice MGA dream car. It was purchased 20 years ago for $16k when classic British sports cars were in their own buy now or be priced out forever hype. Her husband soon lost interest in it when the realities of old car ownership sank in.
The car needed work as such old cars do. Gaskets leaked, tires rotted, the gas tank rusted, carbs needed fiddling, hydraulic fluid needed changing, electrical gremlins needed banishing. Unless you LIKE doing such work it’s a huge PITA and like it or not you will end up with filthy hands, stained clothes and always smelling of gas, grease, oil and soot. Hubby was too busy making big money doing very important VC things and needed to not stink even faintly of gas, grease, oil and soot to do those important VC things. Fortunately there was a local garage that specialized in old British cars; unfortunately they charged a lot and didn’t always do a good job. The explosion of vehicle size and the number of dangerous drivers over the past 20 years has also made driving this car a more fearful experience than fun. Nobody wanted to drive it. So the car sat in the garage for years, taking up a valuable parking spot while also leaking and stinking.
The car was an albatross, not an asset.
It took a decade but eventually my sister got hubby to agree to sell the car but his pride needed the ask to be at least what he paid for it. Being too busy at work he also dumped the job of selling it on her. I helped as I could. I wrote what I thought was a kickass ad. But the only interest came from tire kickers and flaky old men who droned on and on about the MGA they had once owned but ghosted her when it came time to buy. The ask went from $16k, to $12k and she still got nothing but tire kickers and flakes. Comps were all over the place so it was hard to know the true market value.
She finally said fuck it, dropped the price to $5k and it still sat for weeks until she managed to sell it to an old man for even less than that.
So let this be a cautionary tale for anyone looking at a classic car as an enjoyable investment.
A car that is sitting neglected and rotting is not an investment. Use it or get rid of it. My Spitfire is worth about 4X what I paid for it 30 years on, and the enjoyment I have gotten out of the car is priceless. But this seems like it was simply the wrong car for this dude. He should have bought an 80s 911, even in decrepit condition he’d be smiling all the way to the bank at this point. 20 years ago you could still get a decent one of those for $20K.
He was chasing nostalgia. He had an MGB in college when he had really wanted an MGA. A 911 would not have scratched that itch. Nor was my predictable advice: A NA Miata or for a more authentic vintage experience a Datsun roadster.
Oh well.
Fair. But letting it rot was certainly not the right move.
Miatas are really not at all the same experience. They are very much modern cars cosplaying as vintage sportscars (even if NAs are damned old at this point – rather older than my Spitfire was when I bought it).
The Datsun is legit, but about one billion times harder to deal with than an MG or Triumph where you can basically build a new one from catalogs and websites. I have friends who fell for them. They are NOT more reliable. At all.
It didn’t rot. It sat. It was taken in for periodic maintainance to that British shop and sometimes they sat on it for several months at a time. It was bought with issues that were slowly expunged but it was always intended as an occasional toy, not a DD, a show car or an objet d’art. It was in fairly typical condition for a 60 yo car and it’s not like post war MG had built it to high quality standards.
I had friends with Datsun roadsters too. Many of my friends were Datsun fans. To my recollection the Datsuns were more reliable than British despite receiving much less wrenching from their owners than my TR3 and my friend’s TR4 Sure British parts were easy to get but quality varied. Triumphs Specialty was local to us and they SUCKED. The owner even sold 16 yo me a fan belt that was too small and when I complained it didn’t fit he assured me it was supposed to be that way and that it would stretch. It didn’t. The shop suddenly closed and we heard the owner was on the run.
When my diff blew a seal and chewed itself to pieces a local Triumph junkyard tried to convince me a pitted set of gears would be better because the pits would hold more oil to the mating surfaces. I didn’t believe them.
Moss Motors and English Only were better but lot of the parts were cheap junk, especially hubcaps. The thin chrome flaked within a year or two, even in our mild climate.
BTW the dad of my friend with the TR4 had a long nose 911T. It was to me at the time nothing particularly special except it had FI which I thought was cool. 911s were common so I mostly tuned them out. I even used to walk daily past a long nose 911RS on my way to elementary school. I thought the duck tail looked kind of silly.
If you don’t use a car, it rots. My cars sit, but only for a winter at a time properly stored, they get used all summer.
My Spitfire has been largely bulletproof for 30 years. The only major calamity was due to a boneheaded move by the PO when he changed the motor to the earlier 1296cc unit. As are so many old car dilemmas. I took that opportunity to make it better. I have never had any major issues with parts quality. But good help is hard to find which is why I do 99% of the work myself. If you can’t do that, chances are the old crock ownership experience will be a fraught one, or at least a very, very expensive one. Not really justifiable on old crocks that aren’t worth anything. Labor for a Sptifire or MG is no different than labor on a Jaguar, but the end result still isn’t worth much.
I just didn’t find the Datsun juice worth the squeeze. They don’t do anything particular better than an MGB (except rust – they are world champion rotboxes like every old Japanese car) and they are much harder to find parts for, of any quality. Old cars are only as reliable as you make them. At this point there really is no excuse – the dilemmas of every common old car are thoroughly documented, and so are the solutions to those problems. Fix the dilemmas BEFORE they strand you on the side of the road somewhere. In 30 years my Spitfire has been towed once, when the crankshaft broke due to that boneheaded move by the PO (he used the wrong bolts to attach the flywheel). I also ran it out of gas once. Oops.
I spent many of my formative years in the passenger seats of an early 911. If you don’t see how they are rather special cars, I don’t know what to tell ya. Literally the entire world disagrees with you, and the values reflect that. No accounting for taste or lack thereof. <shrug>
Your definition of “rot” is very different from mine.
Rot indicates decay and damage leading to the object in question becoming unsound or weak. A car left in an open field in the rustbelt will rot from exposure and animals.
The same as a car stored in a sealed, pest free California garage even for a year or two between uses sits, especially if it’s sent to a mechanic during that time period.
Literally the entire world disagrees with you, and the values reflect that. No accounting for taste or lack thereof. <shrug>
I’ve never been in a 911 and I’ve never longed for the experience. Oh well. To each their own.
Old cars rot when they sit. Seals go bad, cork gaskets dry up, things start to leak. Electrical contacts corrode. Tires take a set. Little annoying problems start to crop up. Doesn’t matter where they sit. Use it or get rid of it.
You really need to try a 911, you have no idea what you are missing. Then again, don’t. You might want one then, and the things are just stupidly expensive for a good one at this point. Or a barn find project for that matter.
I would love to prove you wrong with a properly stored car, detailed, drained of fluids, up on blocks, battery and tires removed in a climate controlled, oxygen purged nitrogen filled bubble set to automatically (and slowly) cycle the drivetrain once a month or so. I’ll bet you could come back to such a car, get it roadworthy and it’d be as fresh as the day it was put away even if that had been centuries before. Unfortunately neither you or I would live to see that day.
If 911s were priced like Boxters maybe I’d be more interested but I rapidly lose interest in things as the price goes up no matter how good other people think they are. I did the math when they were at their bottom and I still wasn’t enticed.
Sure, storing the a car in a nitrogen bubble with no light would preserve it – but nobody does that so the point is rather moot. Sitting in a garage does a car no favors, including my own. Use them or lose them.
To each there own, probably best you don’t find out what you are missing. I am not interested at current prices either, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t love to have one – and they are one of few cars that actually can be somewhat considered an “investment”, you won’t really lose money on a good one. And I MUCH prefer the vintage ones to modern ones – completely different experience, and very different from a Boxster. They are fabulous cars.
You could get a decent driver for $15k.
That needed $5K of work…
Don’t they all?
Of course. All old car are $X cars. You can pay $X-$Y in work, but they will need that $Y in work to get them to standard. just a matter of pay now or pay later.
They are trying to push the car market the same way that they pushed the housing market. I probably paid more than I needed to for my house because the prices were going up so danged fast! This feeds into the cycle of those prices continuing to climb. How do we get off of this merry go round?
Population crash.
“How do we get off of this merry go round?”
Stop giving a flying fuck what “experts” say about these type of things. Everything these days is set up to manipulate people based on emotional wants and fears. Its disgusting.
I was losing my shit the other day at the dinner when I saw the commercial of chocolate and they made it all emotional like you weill have unforgettable moment with your mother with this chocolate that it will last forever. also the mothers days is coming. FUCK THAT.
have you ever had: remember that night, it made that might unforgettable becaseu we would forget it if there wasn’t that Ferrero chocolate? are you fucking kidding me. Ads like this make me want NOT to buy whatever brand did this shit.
I am so angry arghh… manipulation is absurd
Next time you watch some ad or a YT video or something similar see how many times they say “we love you”. That’s the one that really gets in my nerves, when it’s some for-profit corporate entity saying one of the most powerful emotional plees to an individual they don’t even know.
A recession. The USA hasn’t really had one since 2008.
Its not a REAL recession unless the streets are piled high with financiers who jumped out of windows.
Those good old days will never return.
We’ll just make the people who lost their retirement funds go back to work to bail out the bankers, who won’t miss a bonus check or approach a single window in desperation (unfortunately).
I don’t want to experience a recession more real than 2008 -2009. Worst in my adult life. One could argue that 1980 – 1982 was worse but I hadn’t made it to kindergarten yet
I think the ’90s recession was worse than the 2008-2009 one, and took longer to recover from (and no super cheap interest rates to ease the pain). I graduated from law school then and couldn’t buy a legal job – ended up in IT and never left, but it took a LONG time to start making real money.
I was 11 in 1980, so I don’t remember that one.
I’m sure where one is in life changes the perspective. It is hard to graduate into a recession and try to find a job. My wife graduated into the 2008 recession. She was the only person she knew in her graduating class and major that found a job in her field but we had to pack up and move to Alabama to get that job.
By the numbers:
1990: 8 months, real median wages dropped for 4 years and 5.3%, Unemployment peaked at 6.8%.
2001: 8 months, real median wages dropped for 5 years and 2.8%%, Unemployment peaked at 5.5%
2008: 18 months, real median wages dropped for 5 years and 7.7%, Unemployment peaked at 10.2%
I think what really hurt in 2008 is that houses became a liability and so many people were underwater so they couldn’t move to another job or did move and were paying the mortgage on a house they couldn’t sell plus rent in a new city. Our house dropped 35% in value and even 7 years later we sold it for less than what we paid after doing some major renovations. (Which I did while unemployed since my employer went bankrupt and shut down)
The ’90s recession took a LONG time to recover in New England – I graduated in ’96 and there was just nothing available in Maine at all. The country may have been out of it but Northern New England sure wasn’t. Even the Boston area was pretty stagnant until the early 2000s and the dot bomb era.
2008-2009 was just a really weird situation all around, and not much like previous recessions, IMHO. Also one that I think varied a lot more by region. Where it was bad it was really bad, but it was not particularly noticeable in New England at all. Houses got absolutely hammered in Florida, the value of mine just stopped climbing as fast. There’s been a housing shortage in Greater Portland, ME for 40 years.
YMMV I guess. I had so much other crap going on the recession was more or less background noise.
For me 2008 was the only time in my life I’ve been laid off. The company I was working for went bankrupt and shutdown. It was 10 months before a single engineering job posted in the greater metro area.
I also found out then that unemployment insurance was basically useless (at least in Alabama) because it only replaced 15% of my income.
Oh I’ve been laid off multiple times. Ironically my 2008 *tween time* was the shortest I ever experienced at a few weeks.
The same way we got off it last time.
Crash.
This one’s going to be worse than the last because of how long things have been manipulated to keep line going up. Property values were rising during Covid while the economy contracted drastically. And don’t let people tell you it was city dwellers moving to the country / suburbs, because the city values were rising at the same rate.
The COVID peak was people getting into crazy bidding wars because interest rates were 2%. That cuts the payment a lot vs a more normal 6%
$300K at 2% is $1109 per month for 30 years. At 6% that jumps to $1770
Or to put it another way someone paying $1770 a month could finance $478,871 at 2% vs $300,000 at 6%
You also had investors buying properties at low rates. My wife and I bought a rental duplex in 2020
I consider mortgage rates lower than inflation to be a manipulation of the housing market.
Mortgage rates acted completely normally in 2020
30 year mortgage rates are based on the 10 year Treasury yield – with the mortgage rate historically a bit less than 2% higher than the treasury. In 2020 the 10 year treasury went to almost zero as people all around the world started buying treasuries as a safe investment.
It’s a hobby, not an investment. If you finance a collectors car you should do so knowing that you aren’t making a savvy financial decision. You will lose money and that’s ok! Most of lose money on our hobbies!
100%
I believe in this concept so much so that I convinced my 17 year old son not to purchase a normal car for transportation. He and I share a daily late model reliable appliance for that. Instead, since both of us are clearly automotive enthusiasts, I made him the offer that if he were to instead spend his money on a cool older collector car that he could keep it in the garage and enjoy it on his terms rather than the daily abuse given to a car that would get him back and forth to work and school.
A week ago, he took me up on that offer and asked if we could go look at an 87 Shelby GHLS. Being a Mopar person that grew up in that era and knowing Chryslers of that era inside and out, I inspected the car. What I found was a fairly clean driver with no rust, but the typical battler scars of a 40 year old car. In all honesty, I struggled internally with the price, but I had to consider that perfectly clean versions of this car that were fetching about $8K-12K just a few years ago were now seeing prices in the $20K-30K range and actually selling.
To me, the car I was looking at was easily a $3000 car just before the pandemic, but the reality is that these cars, and many cars throughout the 90s and early aughts, are indeed climbing in values. I’m seeing a repeat of the muscle car and Ferrari booms of the 80s when I was a kid and could only dream of owning a kicakss Mopar from the golden era of muscle cars. I’m looking at the cars of my youth from the late 80s and 90s from a different point of view. Many of the cars I ignored from that era are now constantly in my radar as potential additions to our small collector fleet.
I’ve had my eye on getting back into an 80s Mopar turbo car for the past decade now, but have never jumped on one because I was trying to be cheap. The Shelby cars especially are climbing faster in value than I ever thought they would and I was just watching that climb as I kept second guessing myself. The fact that my son will enjoy this car, and I too with him, for however long he owns it while typically never losing money on his investment is why every enthusiast needs to do the same thing.
Buy it now. Finance it if you have to. Is your daily paid off and worth something? “Repurchase” it and use the money to buy the collector car before your daily depreciates too much to leverage for a good rate. If your credit is good, you can get a personal loan for around 9% or refinance your late model daily for around 5% or less. Do it!
Yes, asset bubbles have never existed in history. It’s not like borrowing money for “investing” has ever caused a depression or anything.
Pardon me if I don’t take the advice of a used car salesman (Doug) about buying more used cars.
I’ll borrow money to invest in your borrowing!
-USA (2006)
I’ve been buying and selling old cars for at least 30 years now. Not highly-collectible cars, but just older fun cars. I don’t do it for profit, but for the fun of ownership with very little financial risk. The fact is that over those 30-ish years, I’ve lost only a few times, but have mostly broke even or gained. Even if the gains were small.
I’m not in this to make money. I’m in it to have fun with fun cars that I can afford before I die. If that means borrowing against the one car I never plan to sell to help my son also achieve this dream, then so be it.
I don’t invest in my future. I’ve never been that smart, but I’m smart enough to know what I want and how to get it without financial ruin. Right or wrong, people like me are why places like The Autopian exist.
Cars are a poor investment. If you’re investing in your enjoyment of a car, great! Go nuts.
I assume I have to be willing/able to take a total bath financially on my dream car.
This is exactly why, after about 15 years of wanting one, I’m buying a Mini before they’re unattainable. The prices are BONKERS considering they made over 5 million of the little nuggets.
But when one located in Ontario popped up checking every. single. box. Except for the drivetrain (998 & auto), I jumped on it.
It’s not the engine and trans I wanted, but one with a manual and the big engine is over double what I paid. And the car is TOTALLY rust-free with amazing paint.
I pick it up tomorrow, along with a detour to pick up a Honda D-series subframe to facilitate a swap. I have the distinct advantage that the Mini is one of very few cars that gains value with an engine swap (unless it’s a Mk1 Cooper).
Sounds awesome. I wonder if I was looking at the same one on Marketplace.
Before you swap in the Honda, take a look at the Rotax 900ace Turbo R out of a wrecked Skidoo.
Dry sump, 900cc triple with oil squirters and forged internals. 180hp stock tune with massive torque. Entire setup is 150 lbs with intercooler.
Reliability is proven in work sleds with over 100,000km, on just oil changes and belt maintenance. Rated to tow 1500lb. Modified sleds have made 300hp on stock internals.
We have the 95hp naturally-aspirated version in our snowmobile, and it’s such a sweet sounding engine with fantastic torque and throttle response. I’ve looked at Minis just to imagine a way to enjoy that engine on wheels in the summer.
This is a family rig, so it’ll be good with the Honda. I do want to build a motorcycle powered SOMETHING eventually.
There is a younger guy that’s put a goldwing motor in an old vw bug. Great idea obviously a good amount of fabrication was needed, sounds sweet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUufzri7oFw
I just realized that I don’t actually want to OWN a lot of cars, I want to drive a lot of different cars. Maybe 500 miles each or something. Maybe I will fall in love with something specific but I just want different experiences.
“Love Ain’t for Keeping” – The Who
About 5 years ago I was pretty sure that Boxster prices had hit rock bottom and could only go up. That is not the only reason I bought my Boxster but I thought I was getting in at a good time. I still think that is true, but I sold the car yesterday because I just wasn’t driving it anymore, and over those 5 years it didn’t really appreciate, at least not when you consider what I spent on maintaining a 25 yr old Porsche.
I don’t view cars as a financial instrument, and maybe that means I am stupid. I have plenty of investments and don’t need my hobbies to become side hustles. I think the whole idea of buying cars as appreciating assets is generally bad for automotive enthusiasm because people get caught up in the hype over value and not just enjoying their cars for being a good car or a pretty thing.
Right now all of my vehicles are too functional, but I am holding off on buying anything for at least a month because I have a few big trips coming up and I need to get some cabinets built for our bathroom so it would be nice to have extra garage space. That being said if anyone has a hot lead on a 2nd gen hardtop corvair, or a BMW airhead let me know, right now those both really speak to me.
Thank you Doug I never considered that I should have more money
I considered it but couldn’t make the numbers work.
He is such an out-of-touch douchebag. I was a big fan of his early on until time and time and time again he’d poo-poo anything other than the extreme top trim of any car model. Hey asshole, we don’t all got $100k to throw at a fun car we drive 3 or 4 times a week. His snobbishness started to really show through when his channel first got big, at which point I unsubscribed and never watched another one of his videos again.
Fully concur. I don’t get why so many people love him. He and Hoovie are the worst of popular (car) youtube.
Yeah, I stopped watching Hoovie after it became the same schtick over and over again. I liked him a lot better since his “down-to-earth” persona was more believable since he usually chased more reasonably-priced cars with only a few higher-end models. But that became old after a bit as well. But his deprecating personality is more relatable than Doug’s.
Other than the Gullwing, he’s really going back to his roots. I find I can’t help but like the goofball, but agree that when he went all-supercars, all the time, it got old fast. I just don’t care about that nonsense. I could probably afford a Jr Ferrari or Lamborghini if I really wanted to, but they just don’t do anything for me.
I think he’s kind of an idiot. Ever since he railed against the dial to adjust the face level air temp on BMWs I can’t even with him. I find him to be the about the third most punchable face on the planet after Trump and DeSantis too.
But he should go on getting people to overpay for these nonsense cars. That should make the cars of that era that I like that much more reasonably priced. Though some have gone completely bonkers, e30 BMWs and Saab 900s for example.
Oh, I don’t even know about this dial issue. Must have stopped watching him way before that became a thing. Its literally been years since he came off my subscribed list.
He literally couldn’t understand what it did and why anyone would want such a thing in their car. <facepalm>
I liked your post for punchable 1 and 2.
I filled my want for a fun car without paying inflated used prices. It’s modern enough to be safe, reliable, comfortable yet still fun to drive with good power. Don’t sleep on the VB WRX. This may be the last gen that isn’t electrified or hybrid in some form.
I owned a VA for 9 years, really couldn’t recommend it enough as an all-arounder vehicle. I was disappointed with the VB for the commonly cited reasons. When I finally drove my brothers 2024 base lease.. I couldn’t believe how much better it drove than my VA. All of the controls felt great, good throttle response. The 6000 RPM redline was a little bit of a bummer but I always said anything above 5500 felt useless in my VA anyway. It is deeply underrated for sure, and as silly as it still sounds to say it is mostly thanks to the black plastic.
I do believe Subaru meant for the VB to be the end of the line for WRX as we know it, with some full EV thing taking its place. But this changed with the collapse of EV market and by end of 2024 they were shifting gears. They still may be on the fence – they said as much when talking about the STI Performance B and E concepts at last years Tokyo Mobility Show. They put the concepts out together to get a feel for what people might be more interested in. I can’t imagine the message could be any more clear to Subaru that it was the cobbled together STI-looking, boxer-powered Impreza hatch that we all want.
Not a big enough of a jump from a VA. I barely drive mine – it sits so long that I can’t keep the battery from dying. But when I do get it going again and take it out for a spin, I am reminded how much fun it can be. Don’t need a million horsepower. Don’t need a 200 MPH top speed. A little more power than stock, some minor suspension work, a muffler-delete, and a short throw shifter and it really is a great time on some good roads.
In the real-world where us mortals live, you can’t realistically take advantage of 500+ HP cars with 0-60s in 2 seconds. Other cars are around. Pedestrians. Massive potholes, cops and traffic. It all goes to waste. That’s why the VA is such a good drive because it has reasonable limits.
This. I found my 220hp GTI Sport rather more fun in the real world than the 326hp M235i it replaced. There is absolutely such a thing as “too much power”.
And I continue to kick myself for taking the Carvana money and running back at the peak of the used car insanity. I will NEVER find another decent GTI Sport at other than insane money. Sigh. They are either hooned to death, intergalactic miles, or absolutely batshit priced at this point.
I feel a similar thing for my old Bugeye WRX. It had even less power than my VA, and yet – for the road – is was absolutely perfect. Man I miss that car. There’s one just like it a few blocks away and every time I pass by it, I slow down. People in the houses around there must think I’m some perv, but that was peak fun car for me.
I love the VA as well.
Firstly: Don’t have any more room.
Secondly: Where have all the Nova Twin Cams gone? Hell, I’d take a nice manual (AE80, not Chevy II) base model at this point.
I’m not as anti-Doug as a lot of people here, not that I’m a super duper fan of auction sites that have shifted the unique car market from an effort by those who care to those who simply have the most money. Good luck scouring your region for that low mileage Honda Element, it’s going on an auction site and someone from the coast is going to snag it from you. Grrrr.
I used to watch his videos too, but have soured on them a bit, as he lays on the schtick a bit thicker than he used to.
But the dude is right, auction sites or not, these values are going up. Yeah there’s the usual element of we all get old, look back, and want to own the cars we wanted so badly as kids. But then there’s also the element that enthusiasts simply aren’t catered to by manufacturers anymore. Where in the 80’s-00’s brands were pumping out a ton of cars that brought an element of fun or novelty, most brands hardly offer any of that anymore. The market will get tighter as supply gets tighter. It’s not like there’s a ton of options for the person who wants a new car similar to what they wanted as a kid. Now your only option is to go find a nice example of that era car.
The cheap/fun new car market today is completely non-existent. Unless your idea of cheap is $40,000, then it is merely a desert.
Even if you do think 40k is cheap, there are some segments that have completely ceased to exist. Want a subcompact? I guess there’s… Mini? Only sort of even? Lol. Don’t even get me started on wagons…
The whole reason I bought my RWD 6spd stick BWM wagon new is I couldn’t find one used worth buying – and I looked for the right one for YEARS. That HURT at the time, but 15 years on and still in love with the car I am so glad I did it. I also feel like I picked up my 128i at the right time.
Yeah, we’re staring down the end of an era when it comes to being able to buy sporty/practical vehicles that aren’t on their last legs. Christ, it’s hard to find a Honda Fit these days, much less anything else semi-fun.
I’d love another MK7 GTI. But they are all hooned to death, intergalactic miles and beat, or insanely priced for a nice minty one. I don’t want one badly enough to pay over new MSRP for a 10yo car.
There are a few values out there. I really need to get my real estate dilemmas sorted while Alfa Spiders are still under $20K for a good one.
Honda Fits are not fun. Speaking from experience.
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I own a 3rd generation soon to be 12 years and it’s terrific fun. We’ve been to 41 states in it, and through the famously curvy roads of the South.
Maybe not the in the most traditional sense, but when it comes to cheap, cheerful and engaging, they were the best of their kind.
Certainly more fun than an HR-V that’s for damn sure.
I say a prayer every day that my 2015 Fit EX will be safe.
Yeah. There’s just no replacement for it.
People keep saying that they want these cars and yet we see extremely few 86 twins, Civic Si’s, Miatas and Elantra N’s on the road. I would also love to see more options but the ones we have are truly outstanding and people just aren’t buying many of them.
The problem with blaming the victims here (lol) is that there never was and never will be a big market for these kinds of cars. Outside of something like the Mustang or maybe Corvette, none of the stuff we consider “enthusiast cars” were ever big sellers by anyone’s metrics. And they don’t necessarily have to be either. But they are a universally bad idea per any bean counter. You need someone that thinks like us at in control or else they just won’t happen. And so with the exception of maybe lunatic-helmed Toyota, everything has gone wrong as everyone has focused on becoming a smarter, more profitable company – as dictated by shareholders.
I recall back in the early 90s that 4th gen Civic Si hatches, 2nd gen CRXs were everywhere and even weirdos like the Del Sol sold 2-3x current Miata sales. Those were all cheap and fun cars that sold in wildly good numbers.
And perhaps you’re right – if you could strip fun cars down to the $25k price point perhaps they’d sell again, but i’m skeptical. I think consumers have been convinced that you should be buying more SUV than you can afford on a 72+ month loan.
I’m way too monogamous to own more than one car at a time. It feels like cheating.
Spend your time and energy on one car that will take care of you. That makes sense to me!
The nice thing about having a bunch of cars is you don’t get bored with them as quickly, and different cars optimized for different tasks. At each home I have a practical wagon and a fun convertible, plus up north I have a real SUV for doing SUV things with.
That’s definitely a point. I kept my last pickup for 13 years before it got boring.
My take:
Often dream cars are no dream cars anymore as soon as you bought them. Sometimes they will just be a disappointment.
In the past couple of years, my interest in cars has changed a lot. While it used to play a massive role in the past, I don’t invest much time in it anymore.
10 years ago, I was very close to buying my childhood dream car. Don’t know whether I would be more happy if I had bought it. Don’t think so.
Would love to drive it once, that’s my big wish. But owning? Don’t think so anymore.
Guess I’m lucky, my dreams are mostly weird/orphan motorcycles that can be had cheap but are hard to keep running, or oddball pickup trucks that don’t exist and have to be constucted.
Doug and Bids founder wants you to make more bids.
Jay Leno always says to expect to pay somewhat more than you want to in order to get the car you want in good condition.
My problem is storage… no room at the inn for another car. One in, one out.
That was my experience when buying my 13 Si, after literal years looking for a mythical 10kIsh example I jumped on one at 16K when it was what I wanted. Was it more than I thought I should spend? Yes, had I seen another one that ticked all the boxes? Not for less than 20. So here we are.
While I probably can’t sell it for what I paid, I can get close, and that makes me feel mostly OK with my decision. If it’s still in good shape in 10 years, I probably can make my money back on it. Unfortunately, I like driving it too much, so it won’t remain a low mileage example much longer; but that’s not what cars are for so…..
Si’s really hold their value well! I was looking for several years and couldn’t justify a used on based on price.
Yeah, I specifically wanted an 8th or 98th gen, after lots of reading, I preferred the 2013+ 9th gen, as the last K-series Si. While the 8th gen can rev a little higher, the 9th is just a more refined car IMO.
In wouldn’t feel bad about “losing money” on a car from 2013, Si or otherwise. The fact that it’s worth anything close to the same dollar amount is amazing value retention.
13 years old is solidly in the depreciation pit of old enough to be “non-current” yet still 15-20 years away from being a “classic”.
Agreed that trying to make money on cars is pretty much always a losing battle. Even if you keep it pristine in a garage and it sells for $30k in 10 years- Are you even making money, by the time you calculate the cost of upkeep, owning/renting the garage, and inflation? Maybe some do, but probably less than investing the same money in the S&P 500. Might as well enjoy the car if you’re going to own it!
Historically I’ve been very precious about my things, always wanting to keep them looking new and fresh. Early last year I realized, especially with my cars; that they are meant to be used and enjoyed. That use includes wear, and I can’t fight against it, but also it’s a huge waste of money and effort to try and keep it pristine. Will I still take care of my things? Yes, but I’m not going to elect to drive my 03 Civic 200 miles away simply to keep the miles off of my 13 anymore. The 13 is a more comfortable and capable driving experience. I am not a curator with a museum, I am a normal consumer.
That’s a healthy realization for sure.
I was the same way, and it took me way too long to get over it. Not that I was actually successful at keeping vehicles pristine- I had no choice but to drive my string of Volvo 240s daily, and I felt guilty about it. Finally I realized cars have a finite lifespan where they are economical to run, and that’s just the way it goes. A vehicle that can be repurchased for only a few grand is never going to be ‘saved’, and I didn’t have the resources to do so, even if it made sense.
This topic reminds me of David Tracy wanting to keep his older i3 to avoid putting miles on his slightly newer (but nearly identical) 2021 i3- Because the 2021 is going to be a ‘future classic’. Insanity.
Yeah, that entire discussion was part of what helped me recognize this behavior in myself. I like to think my 03 Civic is pristine for what it is, but it’ll never be mint; and that’s okay.
There’s a happy medium. I keep my cars “on the button” but I try not to be precious about them. I get dings and dents PDR’d, but I am not obsessive about washing and waxing them. Kind of depends on how replacable the car is though. My Mercedes wagon and 1-series BMW are relatively speaking, a dime a dozen. My BMW wagon would be REALLY hard to replace.
Yeah my Civics are one of what, millions produced?
When I was young and single I’d spend at least an hour a week keeping my car clean, waxed, detailed, etc. Now? They barely get washed three times a year. I don’t neglect them, but my life is very different, and their main purpose is to be a (fun)tool to help me live my life, not the central focus of it.
LOL – My BMW and Rover are each about 1 of ~500 in the US. My Spitfire is a completely unique FrankenSpit (in the best way, and it’s all Triumph).
I keep them all clean, but I don’t obsess about it, never have. The convertibles have to be hand-washed so they don’t get washed as often, and for the moment I don’t have a usable garage in FL. It will be easier when the new place is done. The rest of the cars go through the car wash, and I wax them every 4-5 years whether they need it or not. Swirls don’t bother me.
Barely washed three times a year is neglect. Don’t kid yourself.
It’s energy conservation, for me. I could make myself crazy spending three hours handwashing my cars every week, weather be damned; or I could just live my life and not let me things own me. We’re talking two Honda Civics here, not some rare museum pieces.
Improper maintenence of the finish of any car will result in deterioration and reduced value.
Every car should be washed monthly at least and some type of preservative coating applied annually.
The easiest way to do this is a full service car wash.
Getting lost in the weeds about philosophical “things owning us” is irrelevant navel gazing. Your stuff has to be cared for, whatever it may be.
Thanks Dad.
You just have to buy the right car and use it the right amount. My ’11 BMW wagon in ultra rare 6spd RWD form stopped depreciating years ago. Can’t say it’s APRECIATING yet, but it’s been worth $20K for a long, long time. But I also have only put about 2K a year on it the past decade. My 128i convertible is still worth about what I paid for it 6yrs ago with an added 25K, but that says more about inflation than anything. My Spitfire has only appreciated 3x, but nobody is going to use a Spitfire as part of their retirement portfolio. My Disco I has appreciated some since I bought it, but ditto.
My 14 Mercedes wagon? Well, that is pretty much setting $10K-12K on fire over five years, but it’s been a great car and I have no regrets.
I’d say you’re doing pretty well!
There is definitely some art to picking a vehicle at the bottom of its depreciation curve, keeping it going without too much wear, and outlasting the entropy until it becomes a legitimate survivor.
My current Volvo was purchased for about $1500 8 years ago, and has cost maybe $1000 a year on average to maintain and insure since then. I’m thinking of selling it, and I figure it’s worth maybe $7500 now if I were to find the right person. Let’s say $5000 if I wanted it gone tomorrow. Still, I don’t think I’ve made money, but about as close to a “free car” as you can expect.
Our ‘21 F150 Lariat though? It was purchased used, so we dodged the initial depreciation hit, but the truck has easily depreciated another 15k since then, with 75,000km of usage and nothing but oil changes. The truck seemed like a huge purchase at the time, but it’s actually cost us less to drive over 3 years than the ‘10 Subaru Forester we had before.
My one big win was the one I kick myself for selling. Bought my ’17 GTI Sport new at the very depths of Dieselgate when there were tumbleweeds blowing through VW showrooms. Paid $24K for it out the door on a $30K MSRP. Didn’t pay sales tax since I traded a BMW worth more than the VW, and I had plenty of equity in it. Sold it to Carvana at near the peak of the used car madness for $24K four years later, two weeks before the B2B warranty expired. Been kicking myself for that ever since. Sigh. Only had 20K on it.
That keeps me in check as well. And there is definitely a limit as to how many cars I can deal with at a time. My record was seven, and that was too many. Currently at five, but split between two homes so summer and winter in FL wheels. That is manageable. Though annoyingly due to chance in Maine and registrations being due on your birthday in Florida, all five have be registered in July. Plus a trailer. Fun.