The world is excited about Slate EV pickup truck for two primary reasons: One, it looks cool. And Two — the big one — is the price. This will be the cheapest electric car for sale in the U.S., with Slate a few weeks ago announcing the MSRP of $24,950. But the one question many have had is: What about the destination fee? Well, we have it now, and it’s not nothing.
I asked Slate about this when we heard about the MSRP, but now we have the answer. From Slate (emphasis mine):
Hi from Slate. We have some more news: the destination charge for the Slate Truck is $1450. It’s the lowest among all pickup trucks in the U.S., because we believe that trucks should be affordable.
So, all in, the Slate will cost $26,400.
Does this change anything in your mind? There are still cheaper gas cars, including ones with practical features like paint, a radio, electric windows, and — critically — four doors. There are also still cheaper used EVs. But I’m unsure there’s any new car that’s more soulful for less money. Is there?
I don’t think it changes too much in my mind. I’m guessing most potential buyers don’t pay as close attention to pricing speculation and news as the readers of this site do, so the actual difference isn’t that huge. What I don’t understand is the point of a destination fee in the first place. Why not just bake that into the price?
Because then you can’t say it’s $24950
An actual email from Slate? Not hidden in a website? Decoded from a series of classified ads? Microfilm cleverly concealed in a pack of American cigarettes? Carrier pigeon?
I get the excitement around the price point but when I look at the vehicle I think it is overpriced. Especially when I think about Ford’s new EV truck coming to market for just $3,500 more. I’m not even seen Ford’s new midsize EV truck but I can already know that there has been intense amount of research and development and fine tuning that is gone into Ford’s EV truck versus the Slate. Dollar for dollar, I don’t even see the Slate having a use case.
We must not compare a Slate that almost exists with a Ford that might exist. Especially when Ford has shown nothing besides the physical location where the vehicle is being designed. While I agree that Ford will likely be a major competitor, it’s a bit premature to start comparing prices.
Ford at least has a long recent history of recalls that would at least affect my decision.
I think it’s fair to say the Ford will exist. I mean, it’ll have SiriusXM use Destiny Bond on your AEB by sharing RAM on a single compute unit. But it’ll definitely exist.
I think it is safe to say that the Ford will exist. They have a number of actual vehicles out on the road, including one posted here first. The plant it is going to be built in is under construction and has been since they cleared out the Escape in December. The plant that is building the batteries is up and running.
At this point Ford simply has too much money invested not to get it to market. They also have good money to throw after bad if that is what it takes to at least get some revenue while they finish the designs for the CUV and Van and get them to market.
Now that doesn’t mean there aren’t a lot of unknowns about the Ford including the price with or without the destination charge and the exact specs for that base price vehicle.
What we do know is that it will have 4 real doors with seating for at least 4 w/o sacrificing the bed, it will be painted, it will have power windows that are properly integrated into the door, it will have a proper integrated infotainment system (almost certainly with steering wheel controls), things the Slate will never do.
We also now know that the base model will be RWD and AWD will be optional. They have also said that there will be an optional extended range battery. So no you won’t be able to get the one with 300 mi range or be as fast 0-60 as a Mustang EcoBoost for that “under $30k*” price.
Ford is currently tooling up the old Escape factory in Louisville to build these, so they’ve committed.
I don’t think it’s premature to compare prices given that we know that the Ford is going to be under $30,000 and this one is close to 27,000. And Ford has gone on record with Oodles of details on how much effort and innovation they’ve arrived at. I don’t think it’s even going to be a close competition.
Don’t forget dealer fees, destination, and taxes on top of that $3,500 more. Compare Apples to Apples, not to Oranges. That $30k will be closer to $35k off the lot, assuming dealers don’t mark them up significantly, just because they can.
Thats at least $10,000 too much.
I mean come on guys, a golf cart is 10k less expensive than this. It’s just not 1999 anymore.
Good points
Golf carts are the most overpriced vehicles in the world. Not a great comparison.
Too rich for my blood. Probably also getting out of reach for all the painters, pool techs and gardeners they were hoping to fleet out to.
If you don’t consider the cost of gas then it seems this way. In practice, this might save you $1000+ per year between gas, oil changes, etc.
I don’t like it when I feel like I’m being bullshitted. What’s the destination fee for? There are no dealers. Slate is already not providing paint, now they’re charging for transportation between themselves and themselves. I put myself on their list and I hope it works out for them, but I’m out. Not for this in particular as much as a collection of issues: no blind spot monitor, a wrap that is only projected to last a few years, and now $1600 for what is really a hidden price increase.
If I have to forgo paint or pay for a wrap that will be trash after 5 South Carolina summers, and also pay to put the other half of my car together so I can carry more than one extra person, you bet I’m not paying any BS fees.
I really want to like this thing, and I even had a reservation, but I think I’m not the only one that saw these pre-launch shenanigans coming a mile away.
My FIL bought a Gen1/Yr 1 Mercedes M-class. He lived a couple hour drive from the Alabama factory. He balked at the destination fee. Said he’d be happy to drive down to pick up the car straight off the line. Dealer just shrugged and told him take it or leave it.
Destination fees are legally required.
I’m truly interested. Do you have a reference to support the notion that destination fees are legally required?
Please educate me.
…huh.
Okay, I did some research. I was VERY convinced of this, and it is not true. Fair enough.
There is no federal law requiring destination fees or their equalization, only disclosure. It’s pure industry convention, with some liability/logistical rationale behind it. I was incorrect.
I want this to succeed, but my concern is that many people buy small trucks like this as a second or third vehicle to use for truck things. And $26k, while cheap for a new car, is still new car money. I’m not sure people will spend that on something with limited range and seating capacity. Especially when the price starts to climb as you add power windows, extra seats, etc. I have a 97 F150 I paid $5k for, and even that felt like too much money. I could buy five trucks like that for the same price as the Slate.
Curious what fleet sales for these will look like, if they prove to be reliable and cheap to maintain then they will likely do well in that space. I’m just concerned that retail buyers will like the price, right up until they add all the options they want.
When I sold, tried to sell, cars I saw that a cheap no frills price got them in the door. And you could upsell easily at that’s only $12 more a month until they were far past their budget. Selling cars made me sad
I don’t think the seats or range are an issue. I think it’s whether people who need an affordable car can afford the car, which is ultimately still new in an economy that’s very difficult for a lot of people.
Yeah the Slate or any new truck doesn’t make any sense as a 2nd or 3rd vehicle just for doing pickup things. I have an 02 F-150 for my pickup things and it has averaged about ~4k miles per year during the time I’ve owned it. Granted I would drive a Slate more since for some things it would take two trips instead of one.
As far as fleet sales go I’d say that is a no for at least the near future. Fleets are conservative and tend to stick with what they know even though it seems like it will make a lot of sense for some applications.
The other thing is does Slate even know what fleet sales are like? Will they have a dept to be on the lookout for all those gov’t request for bids and a sales team to visit large and small commercial users?
I wait for user reviews and Prime Day, then we will see.
If they legit link in with Prime Day in some fashion for a discount, that will be a big sales day for them
So is this going to be the low end Cybertruck effect? Lots of initial interest with huge 50 dollar /s down strokes that will go unanswered. Well at least the Slate is sort of cute in a 3rd grader designed a pickup truck way. Every time I see a Cyber truck I want to be in a robotaxi so I can puke in it, get out and leave the door open. Also the Robo whatever is hideous. Looks more upscale vibrator than ‘cool’ car
Remember, the point of the “$50 down/reservation” is that it functions as an interest-free loan.
It’s not crowdfunded. It’s really, really not. They have serious investors, we know about their fundraising rounds. This kind of talk works for many auto startups, but you’re just spreading misinformation.
Do you not know the difference between a loan and an investment?
People who put in $50 for a reservation get no equity in the company. They get no voting shares. They get no profit dividends (if Slate were to become profitable). It is NOT an investment.
People who put in $50 for a reservation gave Slate money that can be repaid, without interest. That is the definition of an interest-free loan.
I said it ISN’T crowdfunded. The $50 reservations aren’t an investment. That is not a secret or a revelation. The insinuation is that Slate needs cash and therefore a “loan”. The reservation is a way to gauge interest without everyone just clicking “yeah sure”. There are other functions than “a loan”.
I was just talking to a family member about this yesterday. He’s looking for a first car for his kid and was lamenting that it seemed like everything newer than a decade old and with fewer than 80k or so miles basically started at $20k.
Even with that background, when I mentioned the Slate to him as a possible option his response was that it looked cool and was about $8k too much for him to even consider.
I don’t see it as a great sign that a guy with plenty of discretionary income looking for a first car for a teenager (basically one of the perfect use cases for this) struck it off his list immediately based on the price.
Not every parent wants to shell out big bucks for the first vehicle their kid will wreck. My family handed down Grandma’s Maverick to my older sister, who handed it down to my older brother, then me then my younger brother. Never made it to my younger sister. Of course fuel and insurance was up to us.
That’s exactly how I was raised (and this family member as well). But now he makes enough that he “doesn’t want to deal with the maintenance of a car older than his kid.” Must be nice to even have that option, lol.
My point is that I’ve heard the argument that the Slate would be a great little third-car runabout for a well-off family, but in this anecdotal evidence even the well-off family says it’s too expensive for that.
He can’t be looking that hard. The KBB on my Accord (8 years old, <70K miles) is less than $15,000. And it ain’t a base trim either
You can find good cheap cars for a kid’s first ride for under 10 all day, and anyone saying otherwise is lying
According to most reasonable (and income-limited) parents, sure. But in that case the Slate doesn’t factor in at all.
This family member is an example of just the type of buyer who the Slate should be a shoo-in for. He’s picky enough that he’s already moved his mental base price for a “good” car to $20k, at which point a new Slate should be in the running for sure as a brand-new set of wheels with cool customizability.
If it’s too expensive/doesn’t check enough boxes for a rich guy, I can’t see how it’s “affordable” for the rest of us.
Your overall point is great, and correct, dont get me wrong. But I can get some used luxe cars for 15 and less. ICE, and not EV, which matters, too. Does he already have a charging port wired in?
He’s not, and I kinda pointed that out to him as well. This is a guy who isn’t exactly required by his income to find the best deals and is basically just scanning dealerships.
The point is that his perception of the used market tips him toward willingness to look at new cars, but the Slate price still isn’t compelling enough for a third car use case.
Scanning dealerships for a first car? Fancy! My first car was a 2001 Kia Rio that I found on Craigslist and bought in the middle of the night inside a dark warehouse for $1,000. lol
The funny thing is technically my actual first car (titled in my name) was a ’96 Suzuki Sidekick that I bought from this same family member for $800. It had been his daily for a few years leading up to that.
Are new cars ever a first choice for most parents to buy their kids as a first vehicle (excluding the kardashian set; I’m thinking of normal people)?
The problem I’m pointing out is that even for someone who’s not a “normal person” and can afford to splurge a bit on a third household car the Slate isn’t even in the running. That’s a big concern.
Think about it like the rich parents buying new Wranglers or whatever for their kid. If even they were like, “Nah, this is too much money for what it is” would we really have any normal people buying new Wranglers for any situation?
I really want to want this but I just don’t think I do.
No cheaper used EV can be loaded with a dirtbike or two. All the negative talk on Slate has me wanting to double down and actually buy one. Even if I am scared that they will go bankrupt and I end up with a brick.
I get what you’re saying, but for me, the method of propulsion being electric does not justify a price premium. There are plenty of used ICE vehicles that can transport bikes, tow a boat, etc. at a lower or competitive price.
Electrics are sold as “premium”, but they are both more expensive to make and dramatically cheaper to own. Since the Slate isn’t a premium connected vehicle, they’re not countering that very real advantage.
To echo the sentiment of others, I feel like the base price is too high. However, I have a much harder time justifying that feeling without also seeing a good price breakdown for an optioned up one. It doesn’t really have a true competitor in the EV space, but against a Maverick it seems a lot of money for a lot less stuff. But what about the SUV options against other SUVs? I suppose I will just use my normal refrain from my daily engineering job – I need more data.
Do they have a factory delivery option to avoid the destination fee? I bet I could buy a plane ticket (or bus ticket) and road trip one of these back home cheaper than $1,450.
I’d ride my bicycle from California to Indiana to save $1,450.
Nope. People have asked that and been told no. Supposedly it’s illegal to make destination fees optional, which makes me curious if you do the factory pick up for like a Corvette if you still pay it
Then why not discount it heavily if you pick it up yourself. Make it a dollar.
I have found it is not illegal – it is an industry convention. There are reasons to stick to that convention, but it isn’t required.
Who knows someone that works at slate? I am certain my bike riding stunt would be approved by someone in marketing.
If 25k wasn’t low enough, 26k certainly is not low enough.
I root for this truck to succeed though so that there will be a second generation for me to buy once kids start moving out and I have the money to overpay for an interesting little trucklet like this.
I think its best bet is fleet sales with few to no options.
If so they’re doomed. I’m guessing high profit accessories are a big part of their plan.
Not unless they’ve been lying in a lot of business interviews. It’s possible, but given the open platform (now with evidence: The accessories list is filling up with third-party options), it seems very unlikely they plan on profiteering accessories.
That depends on if the service parts availability is legitimate. Not to mention if the drivetrain is actually reliable.
Why wouldn’t it be legitimate? Also, the drivetrain is not only electric, it’s off-the-shelf parts. Which also answers the service parts thing.
It’s just an unknown right now. Even well established companies (and their suppliers) sometimes struggle to maintain adequate supply of service parts.
It appears that some of the off the shelf EV drivetrain components are from the same supplier to Stellantis. Last I checked that’s not a good thing.
Only time will tell.
I can’t wait for all the issues and complaining from the fools who purchase these PoS. When you consider the competition the value proposition is pathetic.
If you measure the value of the vehicle in terms of cost per mile of operation, it could possibly be a winner among EVs, by a wide margin. This is if it holds up to being easy to repair by DIY types as advertised.
Maybe. I prefer to measure value across a much broader range of metrics including both objective and subjective.
About what was expected. leaf is a little more, and Bolt is a little less. Important note,.. Google says GM includes it in the Bolt’s MSRP of $28,995. Don’t know about the upcoming Ford trucklet, EV, but the Maverick has a destination fee of $1,845. Ioniq 5 is $1,600.
The 2 door Slate with the extra seats and SUV kit looks like an overpriced option compared to other EVs that can sit 4.
The un optioned blank Slate looks like the smartest move, but the Bolt offers a hell of a lot more including range, creature comforts and safety for not much more, as long as you don’t mind giving up the bed.
I still want to see Slate make it, but I decided it’s not for me. Got my deposit back and already have an Ioniq 6 as my GT EV.
And my 24 Ioniq 6 is AWD, loaded (limited trim), 300 mile range, 0-6 under 5 secs, had only 6000 miles on it and 4/9 of the 5/10 year warranty remaining. An official Hyundai CPO for just $28,000 delivered to my door!
You’ve got to love those slightly used EV deals!!!!
Their whole shtick is “different/better.”
Can you imagine how much goodwill they would have generated if they had just come out with an MSRP of $26,400 with everything included, i.e. no separate destination fee, etc.
Open goal there.
A decent perspective.
I think you meant *own goal*. But yes. They set the bar way too high at initial announcement, couldn’t clear it so lowered it, and now can’t even clear the lowered bar.
Instead of ripping the bandaid off, they are peeling it slowly and painfully.
I did not. Open goal meaning a perfect opportunity to score. But they didn’t.
An own goal would be inadvertently sabotaging themselves. They didn’t make an error, as they are following the current convention, they just didn’t take an opportunity.
I can see it being a bit of a tradeoff from a marketing perspective – if you’re Slate, would you rather be in a position of saying “the price is $26,400 but when you’re comparing it to other cars which advertise MSRP you have to give us credit for rolling in our fees to the price”, or instead say “our headline MSRP (which we define the same as everyone else) is $25k”? The tradeoff being that while yes rolling in the fees is more accurate, it makes comparing to every other car slightly more complicated – for example, I already see another commenter saying that Ford’s upcoming $30k* truck is “only $3500 more” which ignores whatever destination fee that Ford will be charging.
( * And assuming that “around $30k” comes out to a final MSRP of $30k exactly, but let’s say so for sake of argument.)
Lower overall than Maverick at $28,145
But, look at how much more the Maverick has for that tiny amount more, cheaper is still cheaper, but it makes you wonder what the Slate could have been sold for if it was a hybrid instead of a pure EV, or even just a regular ICE vehicle with whatever the modern equivalent of the Iron Duke is
I’m trying to think of what a modern federalized Iron Duke would be. All I can come up with is something like a Kubota diesel.
Something like a little Kubota or Lombardini diesel is what the Elio should have just used in the first place, instead of screwing around with their own
But with financing it adds $100 more to the payment every month. And that ain’t chicken feed. Or maybe it is everything is more expensive
Look how many more recalls Ford has, not to mention selling all your driving information to anyone that wants it.
Not arguing that Ford doesn’t have too many recalls, they definitely do. But, before we start giving credit to Slate, let’s wait until they actually put a product on sale and see how it turns out.
My Ford has been recalled far too many times, but only two of them were not software issues. And one of those two was apparently fixed with a software patch and an extended warranty. I’m not defending Ford, just saying it seems to be very difficult for manufacturers to get the software right, and I don’t expect Slate to be any different.
You’re selling me even more on the Maverick by showing that the price difference is less than 2 grand.
If you add rear seats to the Slate, it is MORE expensive than the Maverick. At that point, what does it have going for it besides being an EV?
Style and quirkiness. It’s the same reason that Fiat can sell like 3 of their 500e, same with Mini. Both offer less than a bolt for more money, but people are willing to pay for the cool factor. Not many people, but some. I’d much rather have this than the Maverick for the open air possibility alone
Style and quirkiness for sure, but I thought “cheap” was their big thing. Is it though? 26k is cheap-ish for EV but honestly, absolutely barebones 2-seater for that price is a bit of a stretch and too niche I feel. I think I’d rather have a Maverick or Bolt if I were looking that way. I do wish them well though, it’s a cool idea overall.
26 will get me a nice open air off roader for sure…with $$$ left over for shenanigans
It still is cheap, just because it’s not the cheapest car on the market doesn’t mean it’s not cheap. So yeah I think they need the weird factor to be a hit to do well for commercial sales, but I think the cheap could get them a fair number of fleet sales too where the 2 seat bare bones interior with a 5 ft bed is all companies need.
The 500e and Mini EV sold on cheap leases so that manufacturers could collect about $25,000 in manufacturer credits for each one.
I mean the new 500e, no credits remaining that I’m aware of but they still manage to sell a couple
149 in the first half of 2026
A perfect point
You get 4 doors, power windows, power mirrors, blind side monitoring, and a radio with CarPlay/aa. Add a little and get 4k towing, add more and get AWD. Hybrid gets very good mpg too. None of that is possible with SLATE other than adding a radio after you buy it.
Maverick comes in painted colors too. No limited lifespan wraps needed. ( though I’d go wrap less if I had a slate).
Either build these dumb “fees” into the MSRP or get rid of them. Because if they are non-negotiable so no way you can get them dropped they are part of the price then.
This needs to be signed into law. For anything. But special interests will fight it and it’ll never happen…
+1. I also feel the same way about sales tax. Say what you will about Euros and their VAT, but the price I see is the price I pay. Same as ISPs advertising their $20 internet but the bill is actually 50. F-ing BS and I’m royally tired of it.
The only things I can think of that must be advertised inclusive of all taxes and fees is fuel and airline tickets. Airline tickets was a big battle and recently their was talk over rolling back this “needless and burdensome government regulation”.
I had to walk away from about 3 different dealers when I bought my most recent car because they tried slipping in non-negotiable add-ons after I started talking about a time to drive/fly over to pick the car up. Such a gigantic waste of time. No, I do not want your “anti-theft subscription” for $1,500.
That’s always the first part of any discussion I have . I’m not paying for ANY dealer add ons…. And I’ve asntvto see the out the door price itemized in writing.
I’ve walked away many times, usually after the first contact. No need to waste my time.
FWIW, some dealers will play it straight, and they get my money.
Yeah I fell for that crap when I bought the Miata I had. Now I know and not falling for that BS as they called it a vin “etching” feed. They just painted the vin on some parts that might get stolen like the trunk lid and doors because you know you could not just sand that away
Oof that’s ridiculous, I hadn’t heard of that one yet. Live and learn though!
Just a scam. Like here in Pennsylvania they show a great sale price that as you read the tiny print includes a $3,500 dollar down payment or trade in
It’s not like the “Destination Fee” even changes based on the destination! As I learned recently helping my GF lease her car, automakers don’t include destination, taxes, or registration in their online price calculators. It’s not like it’s even difficult for an automaker to include that info, because every dealer-less automaker can and does.
The legacy ones just… don’t.
Can’t really include taxes and registration because they vary from place to place. For instance, when I lived in Colorado, sales taxes ranged from about 6% to over 10%, depending on where you lived. And registration fees changed all the time and also varied depending on the county you registered in. The only way to include those costs would be to determine the highest and use it, but that could be significantly more than actual.
As for non-negotiable dealer fees and manufacturer destination fees? Yeah, those should be included in the advertised price.
But every non-dealership manufacturer, including Tesla, Rivian, Lucid can do it! Hell even *VinFast* managed to figure it out!
I’m not saying you can’t (or shouldn’t be able to) see it on their website, I’m saying they can’t advertise one number to a large geographic area. As far as Tesla, they don’t do any advertising (as far as I know). I’ve seen commercials for Lucid, but I can’t say I paid enough attention to see a price. And I haven’t seen any advertising for Rivian that I can remember.
Well, there’s a reason to make it separate that we’ve seen on The Autopian – it’s easier to change the destination fee without changing the MSRP.
I’m still interested. I’ve already started designing ideas.
Our made-up bullshit fee is lower than everyone else’s made-up bullshit fee! Good for you, Slate.
Barely for trucks, but not all cars, and GM includes it in their MSRP.
I think it’s BS as they have no dealers to deliver to.
The GM ads around here only includes it in the small print. Must be a dealer thing
That’s the part that baffled me!
Well if memory serves this destination fee is a requirement as part of some agreement not sure government or what. They require everyone pays the same destination fee because it stopped people from driving out of state and states losing tax money and dealers losing sales. But remember while you must pay the destination fee you can try to negotiate the sale price
Sales tax is paid to where the vehicle is registered.
This is 1 reason registering and licensing an expensive cars by setting up an llc in Montana is popular bc that is one of the few states that has zero sales tax for autos.
Destination fees, and other overhead fees, should be banned. If it’s on every vehicle and non-negotiable, it should be part of MSRP.
Is the “world” really that excited about these things? I think a certain segment of the youthful Internet chattering classes are excited about it, and the rest of the world will give a collective big yawn about them. They aren’t cheap for what you are actually getting, especially once equipped to hold more than two people.
Nope, we are not.
I don’t even think it is well known by car enthusiasts here.
Everyone always says this, but consumer behaviors do not match consumer opinions. JC Penny famously surveyed customers, found they *hated* coupons, sales, discounts and all the excessive department store shenanigans. “Just show me the real price and make it lower” they said. So JC Penny did… and their sales cratered. Turns out what consumers say they want doesn’t match what they do.
In addition to (but hard to separate from) the expressed-vs-observed preference gap you’re highlighting, there’s also the prisoner’s dilemma angle: people may hate coupons, sales, discounts, and hoops to jump through to get the “real” price, but the ideal they’re aiming for might only exist if everyone stops and just has real prices.
Agreed with others that I’d rather see non-negotiable items required to part of the price, but per this same line of thought, until it’s a law, I don’t expect any individual manufacturer to unilaterally decide to inflate their MSRP by the destination charges, as it would make them less competitive (despite being more honest).
Of course they won’t. This is a reason why regulation exists, to even playing fields and enforce transparency.
I think everyone here is aware that it is illegal to advertise the tax on the price of the gas because they don’t want people to know about a third of the price is taxes. Even more in California
People generally prefer the perception of a good deal, even if they aren’t actually getting one.
Sales 101.
Not prefer it’s just if you can convince them it’s a better deal
Sears did that when I was there in high school. “Everyday low pricing” was an utter failure so they went back to old school sales after a time
Absolutely true. See fuel economy vs. what most of the big sellers have long been as another example.
I predict the Slate is going to be a resounding thud on the market (over the long haul, even if it’s hot for a minute), despite the seeming enthusiasm here for the thing. It’s in a form factor very few want anymore, and it’s not cheap enough for what it is, even if it IS the cheapest EV you can buy (with interest in EVs seemingly declining). I think it would have been far better off as a hybrid, and even then, good luck to them, they are going to need it.
I agree but think it will be like EVs. It will sell to all the fans then fail because it isn’t a popular car amongst the majority of the car buyers
Exactly, I expect a burst of sales, then everyone who cares will have one and it will fall flat.
True but they didn’t make the price as low.
Destination fees are absolutely negotiable with the dealer. The relevant law (16 CFR Part 464 FTC’s Rule on Unfair or Deceptive Fees) just says they have to be broken out in a separate line item, and it is customary for manufacturers to charge a uniform destination fee (but not legally required), and again it is customary for manufactures and hence dealers to not budge on destination fees, but non of this is a legal requirement. You can ask the dealer to reduce the sales price of the car by the destination fee amount. Since it’s all part of the taxable bill, we don’t care how the receipt is structured.
Auto Trader disagrees with you. Destination fee is not negotiable but dealer fees are. But sale price is negotiable as well
Auto Trader has a vested interest in higher prices. The destination fee is absolutely a negotiable item- there is no law that says it must be charged, only listed as a separate line item. That line item may be 0$.
It’s a meaningless distinction. Sure, maybe you can negotiate an offsetting discount, but it’s still letting them advertise a misleadingly low price with an asterisk. All non-state mandated fees that are added by the manufacturer or the dealer are just overhead/added profit that should simply be included in MSRP, or whatever the *advertised* price may be.
That would be a violation of Federal Law.
And no, that law exists for a good reason, the bill of sale should include all line items that a customer is paying for, not one number that has no detail in it.
You are completely missing my point. Those fees should not exist PERIOD. They are OVERHEAD, and thus should simply be part of the price, not a separate line item at all. If you are going to charge for delivery, why not charge separately for assembly? Or for the soap in the executive washrooms? They are bullshit fees that only exist to allow a lower advertised price that is not real.
You are completely missing the point- the automaker is required by federal law to list them separately. Typing OVERHEAD in all caps does not change the fact that delivery fees must be listed as a separate item.
Because manufacturing of an automobile is subject to exise taxes under Chapter 32 of the tax code, and delivery is not. Thus (again) by law they must be listed separately. Your objection is with the IRS and the FTC.
Since soap is an Ordinary and Necessary business expense in washrooms in a commercial facility, then yes, somewhere the automaker does have it broken out as a line item. Probably only their accounting department and auditors ever look at it, but it’s there somewhere.
They are legally required line item expenses. You cannot bullshit this stuff, fuck with the IRS at your peril. An entire profession exists precisely because not even Al Capone could bullshit the IRS.
Advertised prices must be honored. Just because you don’t want to read the fine print that “taxes and fees are extra” does not mean the advertised sales price is incorrect. Which is why you need to do your homework and figure out what you will actually be paying out the door. And then negotiate properly.
This really is not hard. If you don’t separate out a delivery charge, then there is nothing to list separately. If you don’t charge a bullshit “documentation fee” there is nothing to list out separately. There is nothing in the law that says they need to charge separately for either of these things. It’s overhead of doing business, and should simply be included in the price. Should Best Buy charge a line item for the delivery of TVs to the store and for the effort needed to document and collect sales tax on the sale of that TV? Those are quantifiable expenses to the business after all. Why should car makers and dealers treat these *overhead expenses* differently than every other retail establishment?
The only way I think delivery should be separated is if you pay the actual individual cost (in other words, “F.O.B factory” – in which case you could pick it up from the factory yourself and not pay it at all). Reality is both of these things are simply added profit to the maker and dealer respectively. For what Slate is charging, I can personally ship a car from Florida to Maine – and given the volumes automakers are shipping it’s costing them a HELL of a lot less than it would cost me. Similarly, dealer paperwork costs nothing like what they charge, typically the best part of $1000 in my market. The paperwork that has an actual fee associated, title for instance, is rightly charged separately.
I have an accounting degree and have a been a professional tax preparer for businesses large and small, as well as individual returns. I guarantee I know more about the IRS than you do.
Lol. LMAO even.I don’t know who you’ve prepared taxes for, but everything you described is going to have separate tax treatments for a big manufacturer (including lots of juicy state incentives negotiated with the legislatures), so they abso-fukcing-lutely are going to split things out and get the maximum tax break possible. When I ship a new gas turbine, I get no tax breaks on that, and get hit with excise tax for the entire cost of the new build. But when I ship a remanufactured one, it qualifies for an environmental tax credit from the state on the shipping, and only the labor charges get excise. You bet your ass those are separate line items in the customer’s bill, that’s like 15k a pop in tax savings. Same deal applies for automakers.
Are dealers shitty about pricing and transparency? Yes. The solution is not to babify the whole experience by legislative fiat that will inevitably leave vast, vast holes for corruption to seep through, it’s to be an educated consumer. It’s not particularly difficult in this day and age to figure out what a good out the door price for a car is- there’s like a million websites devoted to nothing else, then you just email the dealer with your case and out the door price. You can even just pay people to do it if you can’t be bothered or suffer from like crippling social anxiety or whatever.
I have no idea why you think gas turbines have anything to do with a retail dealership transaction, but whatever. When my company sells hundred-millions in GPU servers, we don’t try to charge the client a “documentation fee” to allegedly cover the cost of the paperwork (that is actually just padding the profit). Nor do we try to pass along as a line item the cost of getting items in-house to sell, again, that is overhead and is included in our price. The shipping TO the client FROM us, sure.
You must be new here if you think I have no idea how to go about buying cars. Trust me, I do, I have written about the process extensively, and I have probably bought rather more of them than you have.
That doesn’t change that fact that these two fees are utter bullshit, and unique to the rather fucked up world of the car dealership. And all part of why most people hate dealerships. I actually don’t – I see the needs they fulfill for both the manufacturers AND for the buyers, but that doesn’t mean the process can’t be made better.
Neither was the original Miata but sometimes you get lucky
The Miata filled a pretty gaping hole in the market, and has consistently done so for 35 years now. This does not. 2dr pickups mostly died for a reason.
Even if they can manage Miata volumes for the thing, I can’t see that sustaining a whole company. They probably need 100K++ a year to make a go of it.
Along with amber rear turn signals, we deserve “all-in” pricing.
As I have said here many times, I don’t care if turn signals are amber, red, purple, green, polka dot, or plaid. I care that people actually start USING the damned things consistently. I propose that if you cross a lane line or make a turn without using them, you get a strong electric shock to the gonads. 50K volts of ackright should do the trick eventually.
But definitely destination fees, bullshit documentation fees, and other nonsense that is just overhead should be included in MSRP. The only fees that should be allowed to be applied separately are those that are required by the local or state government, title, tag, reg, etc.
Ah, Kevin – I like the way you think. Let’s get all those BMW drivin’ lazy asses to start limping from zapped gonads!
Listen, if y’all wanna help me get it running, I’ll hook up the electrodes myself (I am an extremely diligent turn signal user and I’m done having kids, there’s no way to lose here).
So you are volunteering to have it done to you? Brave man but foolish
This BMW driver uses them turning around in my own driveway. And BMWs are definitely NOT the worst offenders today by a long shot.
Kia and Nissan
Tesla drivers are the absolute worst.
They really have taken the title from bmw as the worst offender.
It’d be an easy fix to just prevent them from turning or changing lane without activating their signal.
I’d start with Tesla drivers – they have a ready source of electricity under them already.
How about hook up the car battery to the seat and if someone doesn’t use them they get the electrocock treatment as they do it. That’s how animals learn.
The problem is the color. Red outside, green inside people think they are only for Christmas
I’m pretty surprised at how many people I run into that are passionately against inclusive pricing. The argument is basically “You must show the tax and make it painful because taxes are evil”. I point out that every country I’ve been to that requires prices to be advertised inclusive of taxes and fees show an itemization on the receipt.
I don’t care about taxes. Taxes DO actually vary rather a lot in the US. I used to have to deal with retail taxation in POS systems in a past job life. It is *wildly* more complicated than you would ever guess if you aren’t in the business. In some states there could be a dozen or more different tax rates – and that is before considering whether there was a partial or total exemption from paying tax at all due to purchasing for different reasons. And particularly in the case of cars because the tax charged on the car can vary depending on where you LIVE, not just where the car is being sold. That is certainly the case for my state where there are local option sales taxes in addition to the general state sales tax.
But the destination and “documentation” fees are just overhead (and mostly just pure added profit), and should just be part of the price, not separate line items. And of course for our North of the Border pals, the nonsense practice of Canadian dealers charging a “prep” fee to to peel the shipping protection off and put swirls in the paint for you before you pick the car up.
Oh I’m aware I had a dealers license when I lived in Alabama and taxes varied by city and county.
That said, software exists to charge appropriate taxes on online orders for anywhere in the USA so there is no reason that can’t be applied. Pretty much every auto manufacturer asks for your location first then when entering their site. For more generic ads like TV or billboards the price should include all fees. Same with rental cars that like to double the advertised price with fees.
There is zero reason for the price in the local store or restaurant not to include taxes.
Sure there is for local stores – the tax person A pays is not necessarily what person B pays. Restaurants – meh, whatever. And where I am, the demise of pennies has lead a lot of local restaurants to start including the meals tax in thier pricing, so that is changing slowly.
Ultimately, I care about this about as much as I care about red vs. amber turn signals. Very, very little. Changing it will not change my or your life in the slightest.
I live in Oregon where we have no sales tax. Once you get used to the price being the actual price it gets annoying when it isn’t.
I also travel enough that hotels REALLY annoy me. Looking at my next trip the hotel’s real price is 18% higher than advertised and the rental is 42% higher.
The extras for the rental:
Hotels ARE ridiculous. Thankfully, it’s not my money when it’s hotels, I haven’t paid for a hotel room out of pocket in decades.