When Ford first announced the updated 2023 Super Duty, it didn’t release many numbers. Horsepower, torque, towing, and payload were all still under wraps, a detriment to those looking to plan out their next work truck. A little over a month later, while not all figures have been released, Ford’s peeling back the curtain to give a better look at the new Super Duty’s figures.
The biggest number in the latest press release on the Super Duty is maximum towing capacity of 40,000 pounds. However, there are a few caveats to that number. For starters, it’s for the F-450. If you want to compare one-ton dually apples-to-apples, the F-350 has a maximum gooseneck capacity of 38,000 pounds, handily pipping the Silverado 3500 HD’s maximum of 36,000 pounds and the Ram 3500’s 37,090 pounds. It’s not an enormous lead, but it’s still class-leading for now. Then again, just because a truck can tow 38,000 pounds doesn’t mean every driver can. As soon as a truck and trailer’s gross combined weight rating hits 26,001 pounds, the DOT wants its driver to have a CDL.
Even more impressive than class-leading gooseneck towing is that a properly-equipped F-350 dually can pull 28,000 pounds with a conventional bumper-mounted hitch. The 2024 Silverado 3500 HD maxes out at 20,000 pounds, while the Ram 3500 maxes out at 22,740 pounds, so this is a seriously hefty figure to achieve on Ford’s part.
However, Ford hasn’t released towing figures for what will likely be an extremely popular configuration, the crew cab F-250 with a gasoline engine. Considering towing in this configuration wasn’t touted in the press release, I wouldn’t be surprised if it falls slightly behind a similar 2024 Silverado HD’s crew cab gasoline-powered towing capacity of 21,700 pounds with the NHT package. Despite this, properly-equipped diesel F-250 models will be able to pull 23,000 pounds, a rather capable figure.
Regarding payload, spec your F-350 with dual rear wheels, a regular cab, XL trim, two-wheel-drive, and the Heavy-Duty Payload Package, and you’ll be able to put 8,000 pounds in the back. This truck could technically haul at least one other truck, which means that the prophecy of the Ferd Fteenthousand is slowly being realized.
As for engines, the base 6.8-liter gas-powered V8 makes a stout 405 horsepower and 445 lb.-ft. of torque, four more horsepower but 19 lb.-ft. less torque than the Silverado’s 6.6-liter gasoline-powered V8, and five fewer horsepower but 16 lb.-ft. more torque than the Ram’s 6.4-liter V8. Moving up to the 7.3-liter gasoline-powered V8, its 430 horsepower and 485 lb.-ft. of torque are best-in-class gas engine output figures for now. Since the upcharge over the 6.8-liter V8 is a relatively minimal $1,705, it’s likely worth popping for the 7.3 unless you’re looking to save money.
On the diesel side of the equation, things get particularly spicy. While the regular 6.7-liter Power Stroke V8 puts out a very strong 475 horsepower and 1,050 lb.-ft. of torque, the High Output version packs 500 horsepower and a massive 1,200 lb-ft of torque, good enough to be best-in-class. It was inevitable that someone would dethrone Ram’s high-output Cummins diesel engine and its peak torque figure of 1,075 lb-ft, and Ford’s built a healthy margin.
For the most part, the 2023 Ford Super Duty puts up the numbers to back up its fresh appearance and tech. With plenty of power, payload, and pulling capacity, it should continue to be enjoyed by the same core set of buyers that loved the old Super Duty. Pricing starts at $45,765 including a hefty but understandable freight charge of $1,795, with deliveries starting in early 2023, so it won’t be long before these trucks start popping up at job sites and boat ramps all over the country.
All photos courtesy of Ford
I don’t think the gas F250 will be that popular. I can’t remember the last time I saw one of these that wasn’t a diesel.
All ready for bragging rights to the guy loading bags of mulch in the back at Home Depot.
$1700 for 25 HP or about 6% more power? When it’s basically the same engine, same number of basically the same parts. How is this a good deal? I can’t think of a more expensive engine upgrade. I still don’t understand why there is a 6.8 liter V8, I mean they don’t have meet EPA fuel economy requirements. Is it just so they can up charge more for the 7.3 liter? I mean the 7.3 is already significantly cheaper than the 5.0 as a crate engine.
Yeah 160 feet is a pretty shitty stopping performance compared to any modern car, but keep in mind we share the road everyday with vehicles requiring 500 feet to stop from 60.
So in an emergency stop that big rig following you will be stopping 380 feet ahead of your vehicle (which will be a pancake), and taking a full four seconds to do so.
Yeah it’s almost like saying quit pulling out in front of trains, semis, and other heavy weight commercial vehicles idiots.
Exactly. Same goes for aggressive truck and bus drivers who follow too closely, something I see all too frequently around Toronto.
What sort of brakes do you have for that weight, I know the trailer has them too but that is craptastic amount of tonnage
I do not know why they don’t just paint them in locomotive livery and be done with it. They are getting beyond absurd in size.
I’d love to see a engineering deep dive on the drivetrain behind the 1200 torques motor. Thats-a-ladda-beef required to sell a fully warrantied vehicle.
That’s No Moon !!!
I could see 1,200 lb-ft being useful in an F450, since presumably the owner is using it for commercial purposes or other heavy towing. It is completely asinine for an F250 or F350 SRW, though (I’m assuming this option will be available throughout the entire SD product line). I have a 2021 F250 powerstroke and can confirm that 1,050 lb-ft is excessive. It can be a bit scary to drive in the rain or in other low traction situations, as the tires spin with a moderate throttle input. Even with traction control, you have to be careful to avoid losing control. The 1,050 lb-ft of torque might be nice if you are towing 15,000 lbs, but most buyers are using these as daily drivers or to tow their 5000 lb boat or RV. “Upgrading” a these trucks to 1200 lb-ft would be useless and possibly dangerous.
The GVW and DOT are dependent on use and the state.
My state for example excludes non commercial use of a RV (motor home or trailer). I would still take a course on how to move a beast like this as I have enough problems when I had a small utility trailer. I ended disconnecting it, moving it by brute force, then drive the truck up to get it.
That is not an option with a 5th wheel. A larger travel trailer can use a battery operated mover to get it into the final position.
If I ever got one of these, the pull through parking would be a major requirement.
Counterintuitive, but long trailers are much easier to maneuver than short ones, particularly in reverse. You have tons of arc to adjust with before things are out of hand.
Given the option of backing a little lawnmower trailer into a parking spot with my pickup or backing in one of the semis on the farm, I’ll take the semi any day.
The smaller trailer was a pain to reverse. I finally figured out to watch the trailer and reverse while watching it. Rather than some complicated method taught to me, this allowed me to steer in the direction I wanted to go. If I ended up getting P.O.ed at the small trailer, drop wheel, unhook, move my muscle power.
As for the trailer mover. Those look good for final foot or small adjustments. Also if you store the trailer in a tight and straight spot. Hook it up, pull the trailer past obstacles, hook to truck.
I don’t have a moon that needs towing, but I did recently purchase a used battle station that I need to trailer home…
I had kind of hoped that these dick-waggling exercises in the HD space were largely behind us. How wrong I was.
I just don’t understand these high-strung HO diesel engines that seem like they are ready to pop. How long is an engine like this going to last? How often will you need to service the injectors? The DPF? What I would rather see is a smaller, less stressed diesel with a large assist motor and battery pack. say 30kwh and 150 hp. Pair that with a 5 liter 300 hp and 500 lbs-ft diesel. Something powerful, but not overstressed. You could probably net around 450 peak power, and around 1000 lbs-ft peak torque, but you can run PHEV for around-town efficiency sometimes, small diesel cruising efficiency engine sometimes, and big diesel performance sometimes. Yes, this setup would be expensive, but honestly, is it going to be that much more expensive than these HO engines? How about an injector service? Also, people popping for these HO engines don’t care.
It really depends on your need. If you are RVing and towing a 5th wheel or larger travel trailer you want this.
Most people though just fall into the bigger is better.
All but the biggest campers can be towed by the gas engines just fine.
The HO diesel option costs as much as a Mitsubishi Mirage and seems to be more for bragging rights than anything else. The number of people who want to tow 30-40,000 lb with a Class 3 truck has to be vanishingly small.
From I have read about it also depends on where you are towing. Flat vs hills, windy areas. A diesel may not have the HP, but torque is where it wins.
In the end, it is their money to waste or not, I have things of my own to worry about.
Power is what moves loads, peak torque down low simply means you don’t need to rev as high to move the trailer.
The gas engine will tow 20,000 lb all day long, it will just be loud while doing it, which bothers some people more than it should.
I decided we could afford more fuel and factory sound deadening for fewer dollars going with our L94 vs a diesel 3/4 ton. No expensive maintenance, no regen, no DPF to deal with.
Does it gulp fuel? Yes.
Does it still come out cheaper than buying a diesel truck? Also yes.
Is 410hp plenty for making it up the Sierras at the same speed, or faster than, traffic? Absolutely yes.
Does the L94 mind sitting at 4500RPM and 3/4 throttle for almost an hour while doing so? Not one bit.
I think oil rig hotshots and car delivery services would appreciate this. I don’t know for sure, but I also think these types of rigs aren’t subject to the same hour requirements as semis, so that might be another selling point.
If they’re offering transportation services for hire, they have to abide by the same Hours Of Service rules with logbooks and everything.
If they’re moving equipment within the company, the laws are a little vague and they probably skirt the outside of legality without too much oversight.
That works fine for the truck itself. Imagine towing up a steep grade that lasts for miles at elevation. You’d run through that battery extremely quick and be down to 300hp which probably wouldn’t cut it even at full throttle.
The main reason is once you understand how diesel works, it doesn’t make sense.
Gas engines always have to run at 14.7 to 1 air to fuel ratio. This is regardless of if the power is needed or not.
So if the power isn’t needed, adding fuel would make the engine spin up to higher rpm. As it does this it would bring in more air, which means to maintain 14.7 to 1 ratios more fuel is needed to match this new air. Then the engine spins faster.
So to stop this a throttle blade is needed, that way we can add more fuel without the engine speeding up. Then it can idle without speeding up.
A diesel is totally different. Instead of heating up when lean, diesel gets cooler when lean. So no throttle blade is even needed. It’s much simpler, to keep the engine at idle RPM all we need to do is keep removing fuel (leaning out the afr above 14.7 is totally okay).
The issue is that gas engines when the engine size is increased, bring in more air than is needed at low load such as idle which is why they need more fuel.
A diesel actually doesn’t need to do this. A small diesel at idle will use exactly as much fuel as is needed to idle. A larger diesel will use roughly the same exactly amount of fuel. Even though it’s bringing in more air due to being larger it simply runs *leaner*.
The only loses from bigger engines with diesel are the frictional loses from more cylinders with larger bore and strokes. This is not the case with gas. Gas engines can’t run leaner which means they area wasting fuel all the time. They even enrich under load to cool down and fight knock when diesels don’t have to since keeping the fuel stable isn’t a problem and they can’t knock.
I’ll avoid the easy commentary about those who drive big trucks and trailers like these, hell for work I drive a Ram 2500 that often has a flatbed trailer behind it loaded with equipment, and make a point that while a lot of the owners need more training on driving WITH them, there’s more people that need training driving AROUND them. I can’t count how many idiots have taken the gap I’m leaving for stopping distance as an invitation to move over in front of me. And don’t even get me started on the weird complex people develop if you overtake them with a trailer, suddenly they need to do 10mph more than me, overtake, get in that nice gap I left and slow back down.. seriously?
I feel your pain, my excursion keeps a trailer attached to it…. One day I munched a Prius untill my driver’s tire was in her back seat. Let the cops show up she was ranting and raving that I purposely ran into her… Finally they asked my side and I simply showed them my dash cam footage where she pulled out in front of me leaving me maybe 20 feet to slow down from 55 with a 10000 lb load. I had a scratch on my axle and was told I could leave. She got ticketed and a totaled car. I would have moved lanes if I didn’t have 3 cars to my left and she obviously thought the room I left in front of my truck was there to let people turn in… She got exactly what she diserved, even tried to sue for medical and that got thrown out… Lol.
Those numbers are great and all, but what’s the stopping distance say 80-0 mph? Also how big does it make your hog when jacked up on giant wheels with low profile off-road looking tires? Do they come with rope ladders for the 5′-8″ crowd to climb on in? If Kyle departs from Liberty at 9:05 am and Chris departs from Mainvile at 9:22 what time will they both drunkley fight at the Kenny Chesney concert?
The empty stopping distances are more impressive than you might think for something so big and heavy….remember the brakes have to be rated for stopping not only the 7500 lb truck, but its payload as well.
The brakes on my F350 are 14.25″ diameter, and the 450s are even larger.
OK, but what is the actual 80-0 distance? I found this from https://www.vehiclehistory.com/articles/2020-ford-super-duty-specs-worth-bragging-about:
“However, it did take a little more space to stop in a four-wheel-drive F250 at 163 feet from 60 MPH, but that’s about on par with a number of small cars.
… the F-350 version has a shorter stopping distance of 147 feet in offroad tires from 60 MPH.”
That 147 feet is over 50 feet longer than my Camaro, and more than 20 feet longer than say a new RAV4. 20 feet is almost 1 truck length, which could easily be the difference between pancaking the car in front or not.
147 feet is not far from the ordinary, and the distance would be even shorter if it wasn’t equipped with off-road tires. Most classes of vehicles average in the 130s range.
I think that’s pretty impressive for a vehicle that weighs twice as much as a Camaro.
I must have missed that particular grille view in the initial announcement. It may take the “just use an oven heating element or grill burner” title from the old Honda Ridgeline.
Now that the 350 and 450 are safely into haul weights that required a semi 30 years ago, will there be king pin hitch and compressor conversions? Surely the air brakes could be handled by a suitably smart trailer brake controller.
there should be license restrictions way before 26k lbs, this is getting ridiculous
Yeah, maybe at 15,000 lbs you need a “light” CDL that teaches about towing and what not.
If they didn’t need to be restricted with poorly maintained drum brakes on a worn out Uhaul 40 years ago, what has made you decide that these trucks with myriad upgraded safety systems are the problem with that cutoff?
skurdnee, the CDL situation is broken in this country and there is no way to fix it.
The stupid thing is, that cutoff applies to businesses like my family’s where we’re only permitted the total GVWR, the truck, the trailer, plus the contents of the trailer. So realistically, because of that 26k limit, we can actually only transport 10-14k of actual product to our customers because we’re a business and not farmers. Farmers get an exception to that rule and any yahoo can drive an RV the size of a semi with a trailer, or any guy on the street can tow whatever he wants without being stopped by the constabulary. But if we, as a business, are caught in excess of the GVWR cutoff, the fall out becomes a liability matter, a legal matter, and an insurance matter. It’s ridiculous.
Yeah out here in Cornland you can drive semi for a farmer if you are 18. That’s all it takes.
Yep, it’s pretty crazy.
What I find strange is that legality depends on the GCVWR of the truck and trailer, as opposed to the actual weight of the combination (I think this is true from what I have read?).
For example, with my F250, I can legally tow a fully loaded trailer with a GVWR of 15,000 lbs., since the GCVWR would be 25,000 lbs. However, if I towed the same trailer with an F450 (GVWR 14,000 lbs.), it would be illegal since the GCVWR of the would be 29,000 lbs., even though both truck and trailer combinations would be approximately the same weight.
I’m sure the laws are written to make compliance easier, but it still strikes me as odd that I can legally tow more with my F250 than I could with an F450, since it is presumably safer to tow a heavy trailer with a dually F450 than an F250.
That MSRP has increased more rapidly than just about any other mainstream vehicle I can think of.
When I bought my 2019 Super Duty, the starting price for an XL was about $35K (with inevitable hefty discounts below sticker on all models).
Nonetheless, these trucks are seriously awesome for doing work.
They’re an amazing tool for sure. If you have an actual need for that type of capability it’s hard to do better than a Super Duty.
I can’t wait until 90% of these are sold to aggrieved men with desk jobs who can’t afford them on 8-10 year loans so they can promptly blast their headlights into my rear view mirror to express their fury that I’m only doing 17 over
Grey goatees and wrap around sunglasses…
They’re going to give us a 20 minute rant about how we’re SHEEPLE!!!!
Also, in the interest of full disclosure: I actually dig a lot of trucks and am totally fine with people owning stuff like this if they genuinely need the capability…it’s the proliferation of Brodozers that’ll never see anything but tarmac and grocery runs that really grind my gears
And mandatory camo baseball cap.
Gotta hide the receding hairline somehow
Receding? Their hair’s not receding! They choose to shave their heads as a statement!
It’s the perfect truck for towing the boat you don’t own up the mountain you don’t live near.
Can it tow the Blue Badge stickered in the front? (Give it a few years they all come off.)
“…can pull 28,000 pounds with a conventional bumper-mounted hitch.”
Wow, that is some magic bumper.
Right? Must be a pintle on an I-beam that’s been welded directly to the frame. Dealer option, maybe?
Probably a few inches above where the receiver hitch lives.