Happy Friday! Today, instead of the typical Friday runoff, we’re going to look at a new pair of cars, because the week’s contenders just don’t really go together, and I don’t feel like looking back.
We really should look back as far as yesterday, however, just to declare a winner. We looked at two Nissan Sentras that were both set up as race cars, and most of you didn’t like either one of them, it seems. Comment and vote totals were both low, which is a pretty good indication that excitement was low as well.
The final vote was really close, with the ’82 hatchback with some history behind it taking a narrow win. I think that’s the way I’d go as well, assuming I could title and register it for the street. I don’t really have much interest in race cars either, but that Sentra looks surprisingly cool in its stickers and race numbers. And big round driving lights look good on just about any car.
Earlier in the week, you all legitimately surprised me. I showed you a reasonably cheap, reasonably solid, running and driving VW Type 3 Squareback, and it lost. Granted, it lost to a Saab, a marque which remains undefeated, but still, I was surprised. My plan was to pit it against the rest of the week’s losing cars in a second-chance runoff, but I just don’t feel like writing about the same cars over again. So I’ll give you air-cooled VW enthusiasts something new to vote for, and I’ve got an adorable little Italian jellybean for everyone else. Let’s check them out.
1959 Fiat 600 – $5,100
Engine/drivetrain: 767 cubic centimeter OHV inline 4, four-speed manual, RWD
Location: Yorba Linda, CA
Odometer reading: 14,000 miles
Operational status: Not running, but engine turns over by hand
It’s funny just how insulated car markets around the world are, or were, before the modern era. Nearly five million Fiat 600s rolled out of various factories around the world over the course of three decades, and I think I’ve seen maybe two in person. But I bet the same holds true for the average Italian enthusiast and the Chevy Impala. I’m sure there are a few Impalas floating around Italy, but they have to be as rare and special a sight as this little Fiat is in the US.
Like so many other 1950s European small cars, Renaults and Volkswagens among them, the Fiat 600 is rear-engined and rear-wheel-drive. The standard engine displaces 633 cc, but if I’m understanding right, this one has a larger 767 cc engine from a later 600D. It doesn’t run at the moment, but it does turn freely, so it should be able to be revived. One worrying thing is that there is no cap on the radiator; hopefully it isn’t too corroded inside. The seller seems to know a lot about these cars, and has a stockpile of parts, so they should be able to provide some help getting it going again.
Open this 600’s rear-hinged “suicide door,” and you’re faced with an interior badly in need of restoration. The seats originally had some really cool plaid fabric, but it’s completely worn out. The door panels are missing, as is the lower cushion for the rear seat. I would imagine the soft top needs replacing, too. It can all be fixed up, but you’ve got your work cut out for you if you want to properly restore it. You could also install some other seats, and make your own door cards, of course.
The body is in good shape, though. It looks like it’s about as rust-free as an old Fiat gets. The taillight lenses are missing, but I would imagine you can get them from somewhere. There are some other bits of trim missing as well, but it won’t stop you from having fun with the car once you get it running.
1973 Volkswagen Thing – $7,200
Engine/drivetrain: 1.6-liter OHV flat 4, four-speed manual, RWD
Location: Florence, AZ
Odometer reading: Looks like 96,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
Looking at a typical Jeep Wrangler in a parking lot today, with its colorful paint and its row of rubber duckies on the dashboard, you’d never know its roots were a strictly untilitarian, no-nonsense miliraty vehicle. Likewise, you’d never know from looking at this car that it started out as a slapped-together stopgap military vehicle for the West German army. In most of the world, it was known as the Type 181, but for two glorious years, it was sold in the US as the Thing.
Mechanically, the Type 181 is more or less a Beetle. It uses the same flat-four engine, and the same torsion bar suspension. I honestly don’t know these engines well enough to tell exactly what this one is, or how much of it is stock, but I’m sure someone will provide all the details in the comments. What I can tell you is that the seller says it runs and drives fine, and that the four-speed transmission shifts smoothly. That’s a pretty good start.
The interior of a Thing makes a modern Jeep look like a Rolls-Royce: steel door panels and dash, vinyl seats, and rubber floor mats. There’s no heater, no instrumentation apart from a speedometer with a fuel gauge in it, and no sound deadening. Luckily this one has a whole rear deck full of speakers to provide a soundtrack besides the VW flat-four burble. Seriously, do you actually need four 6x9s and a couple of tweeters for a car this size? Probably not, but it’s got ’em.
Outside, it’s mostly original, and pretty rough. It has a little rust, and a few mismatched body panels. The seller also has a pair of orange front fenders in good condition that go along with it, which is good, because the fenders on it are bad. There is some good news: it has spectacular aftermarket wheels on it with new tires, and the top is fairly new too.
Good condition examples of either of these cars go for big money. And scruffy examples like these don’t come up very often. Either one of these is a good opportunity for the right person – probably not to restore, but to experience. A faded, rusty example of a car you’ve always wanted is still an opportunity to own one. Why let the Pebble Beach crowd have all the fun?
The Thing, no question. Used to have one…REALLY wish I didn’t have to sell it. Not “slapped together” by any stretch of the imagination. It was utilitarian in the extreme…the civvy Things were very much like the military-issue vehicles. The only thing I didn’t care for was the gas heater…worked great, but I was always a little spooked by it.
They were based on the wider Karmann Ghia floorpan, rather than the Beetle’s. Quite a lot of ground clearance. They raided the parts bin for a lot of the mechanical and suspension stuff. The rear brake drums were unique to the 181’s, though I’m not clear on why…they were much wider than a Beetle’s drums. The mufflers were unique to the Things…they tucked way up underneath and exited through the bumper for ground clearance…very hard to find now, though there might be reproductions. Not sure if the big (BIG!!!) oil-bath air cleaners were unique, or if they came from the Type 2’s.
I was able to talk the dealer down from $3000 to $2000 when I bought mine, because it ran so poorly…the guy was pretty pissy, but screw him. While doing a tune-up, I found that the big (BIG!!!) air cleaner was FULL of oil-soaked dead miller moths, from an infestation the year before…damn things got into everything. After mucking them out and finishing the tune-up, it ran great. When I bought it, I thought I was going to have to build a new engine. Not sure why the dealership couldn’t be arsed to have given it a quick tune-up themselves…wouldn’t have cost them a grand on the sale.
I knew I’d be in the minority voting for the Fiat, but I love those little cars. As much as I’d like to own a VW Thing, I’d rather have the Fiat.
Never really liked the thing. It’s tough to vote for a non running Italian though. If I had to choose, I guess I’d get the fiat though.
“slapped-together stopgap military vehicle?” I’ll have you know the person who slapped it together was Ferdinand Porsche.
So, I’ve owned five type 181s (at the same time) and (dollar for dollar) it’s the vehicle on which I have made the most profit and invested the least in repair come sale time. People just like ’em for some reason. Down to one now, a lifted ’73 with 18″ chopped out where the back seat was. Rusting away under the Tarp Of Good Intentions, but maybe now is the time to divest as I am much older than this example.
In 1983 I beat the crap out of a VW Thing at 13 years old learning how to drive a manual.
I have fond memories of driving around stoned out of my mind in my buddy’s VW Thing as a teenager, so the Thing gets my vote. That car always reminded me of the car that Gilligan built on “Gilligan’s Island”.
Gimme dat Thing. I believe that Volkswagen would have sold more of them in the U.S. if they had called it Safari like in other markets. Safari is a cool name. Thing is trying too hard to be counter-culture.
GM owned the Safari name in the US for a station wagon. According to legend, when introducing the vehicle at an auto show, the VW execs looked at the Cease-And-Desist from GM and said: “So what’re we gonna call this Thing?”
I forgot about the GM Safari name. If that’s not a true story it should be.
I have no interest in air cooled VWs,but that Fiat would make a fun autocross car or something.
None of them. The 600 is a parts car at best and the 181 has been turned into a big steaming pile of $(#€!$$€ by a complete moron.
I have a an unmolested yellow VW Thing that’s been sitting for about 20 years. It has an interesting provenance if you are into Porsches and LeMans. Currently has the wheel that kept Paul Newman from winning LeMans in the back.
I was going to restore it but never got around to it. Still has pink slip for the original owner.
Need to get rid of it before I move in a couple of months.
I keep looking at Things, but I am not ready for a project.
It needs brakes and an engine rebuild, come with a rollbar and a fiberglass roof, but can’t use both at once.
I have the ability, the tools and the space. I do not, unfortunately, have the time.
If I traded my house for a high mileage Jaguar that I daily drove and maintained myself, I think I would have more free time.
Obviously, it’s the Fiat for me, I love a good raggedy Italian heap! That being said, there seems to be a surprising number of old American cars in Italy. If such things interest you, I would recommend following Quelli Del Toret on Instagram, it’s essentially Turin cars and coffee and there’s often surprising Americans in the mix.
Normally I go for the one that’s actually running. But I really want that Fix It Again Tony, even though I’d have to hire an actual Tony to fix most of what’s wrong with it.
I just think it’d be worth it. The Thing was a joke when it hit the road and I don’t think it was all that funny to begin with.
I’ve driven a Thing.
It honestly was “0-60 in two tries.”
Flat road, then slightly uphill it topped out around 52.
Turned around, started out slightly downhill, then flat and was able to hit 60.
Later that week it died suddenly at 45 mph. Then we noticed the rear seat was on fire. (shorted the battery terminals)
I picked the Fiat because of my experiences with the Thing.
I’d love a Fiat 600, but the unknown issues of an unusual-in-the-USA engine is worrying. I’ll take a running Thing and fix it to my liking instead.
In theory, I’d rather have a Thing. But not THIS Thing, so of these two, the 600 it is. It looks reasonably complete, and more importantly – unmolested.
Fiat 500/600s are about as complicated as a hammer, dead simple even compared to the VW. I have carried a 500 block across a workshop solo.
If I had to, I guess I’d take the Thing since it runs. I love me an old Fiat in theory, but I don’t know that I can take on such an extensive project car.
I don’t want either of these heaps of shit. So I’m gonna go with the cheaper one even though it doesn’t run.
And I suspect the old Fiat will be more interesting/fun to drive than that Type 181.
I’ll take the FIAT kit and hope a fresh pair of hands can make the difference. Always wanted a Thing but that one needs too much love (after too much of the wrong kind) for the price.
edit: Oh hey, looks like there’s two different CraigsList sellers in my area with stashes of FIAT 600 parts (and even a lowering kit!)
This might be priming the pump…
Fiat is reasonably cute, and even though I am not super fond of the lowered stance, I do have a thing for…things. and it has seemingly been spent money on to make it drivable for the most part. body is a bit ugly, but tractor paint on one of those is acceptable if I got a wild hair and cared about the state of the paint enough.
Gimmee that Thing!
Gimmee dat? Gimme gimmee dat?