Every year for the past three years, I have left my tiny apartment in Illinois bound for Elkhart, Indiana, the recreational vehicle capital of America. At the end of September, the RV industry hosts the Indiana RV Dealer Open House, an invite-only sneak peek into the latest and greatest that mega brands like Thor Industries, Forest River, and Winnebago have going on. This year, I didn’t get an invite from any manufacturer, and I suspect it has to do with my honest reporting of the inner workings of the industry, including quality and how manufacturers sell RVs to dealers.
If you have been reading my work for long enough, you’re fully aware that I adore vehicles that have beds and bathrooms in them. My very first post for Jalopnik, which I wrote nearly five years ago, was about a Mauck MSV 1120S bus that had been converted into a weird limo-like RV. From that day forward, I have regularly written about the fun and quirky RVs that I have found around America. I also highlight the awesome new RVs that I think are worth telling our audience about.
I don’t think anyone could reasonably say that I hate RVs! It’s just the opposite. I’m the kind of person who would rather pitch a tent in a state park than stay in some of the nicest hotels. I’d rather tow a camper into a field than stay in a Holiday Inn. However, I suppose I’m also not the most RV brand-friendly person out there. My style of reporting has brought tons of attention to little-known brands that do great things, but on the flipside, apparently, I’ve also caused some headaches at other brands.
How RV Media Often Works
Now, it would be easy for me to just regurgitate press releases. That is exactly how most RV blogs work. Some RV blogs, which I will not name, will brand a rewritten press release as a “review,” which has never sat right with me. It would be like if we wrote a review on the new Honda Prelude despite not having driven it yet.
It would also be easy for me to be like an RV influencer. These folks tour an RV in person, ignore all of the faults, and just talk about how floorplan A is so cool and floorplan B is also so cool. This is not to disparage influencers. It is their job to hype products up. They make money from being positive all the time.
The vast majority of RV media falls into one of those two categories: Rewarmed press releases and influencers. I’ll just pick a video at random:
I come at things from a different angle. My family has enjoyed RVs for generations. Some of my greatest memories were created at a campsite! But I also have some negative memories from camping. Most of those bad memories came from those times when our camper had either broken down, ruining a holiday, or failed, costing us thousands of dollars in repairs. So, while I am happy to write about the cool or historic RVs, I feel that it’s important to point out both the misses and the hits.
An RV might be the second-largest purchase you ever make, and it’s seriously disappointing to spend so much money just to discover that you’ve invested in a real pile of crap. It hurts even more when you realize that RVs suffer from steep depreciation, so if you buy a crappy rig, you’re unlikely to even make your money back. So, I’m not afraid to speak out when I find something I don’t like. For example, I have complained about excessive rust on new Heartland trailers before. But I have made sure that, before I made that complaint, I had a sample size of greater than one unit. I went to RV shows and took note that several brand-new units had surface rust covered up with spray paint:
I don’t do this to beat up the RV industry. Again, I love RVs! My goal is not to use a large national platform to punish a manufacturer, but hopefully, in pointing out flaws, maybe the manufacturer will work to fix what went wrong. The way I see it, this benefits everyone. Customers can buy with confidence, and the manufacturer is rewarded for good work with good sales.
With all of that being said, let’s take a look at how I have seemingly gotten myself blacklisted by the big RV conglomerates.
The 2022 RV Dealer Open House
The first time I went an RV show as media was the 2022 RV Dealer Open House in Elkhart. The Autopian was much smaller than it was now, and I was pretty unknown in the RV world. I received official invites from both Thor Industries and Winnebago, which I happily accepted.
This show was something else. The RV Dealer Open House is one of America’s largest RV shows, and it’s not open to the public. You have to be invited to it, and it’s not configured like your typical trade show. See, the RV Dealer Open House is a show put on by the manufacturers to sell campers to dealers, who will then sell those campers to you, the customer. In other words, dealers go to the Open House to figure out what campers they are going to sell in the future. There isn’t even a real parking lot during the show, but a field that inevitably ends up all muddy:
This changes the format greatly. If you’ve been to an auto show, you know that they tend to be customer-centric. When you go to the typical auto show, you’ll find window stickers on cars featuring pricing and possible discounts, and the people walking around will usually be sales representatives. Auto shows, whether you realize it or not, are pretty much about selling you a car. Another important note about an auto show is that nothing comes free. If you want some snacks, food, or drinks, you have to pay for it.
The RV dealer show was much different. The RVs on display don’t show discounted prices, if they even have prices on them at all. Likewise, the people walking around the displays are salespeople, yes, but they’re also subject matter experts, managers, or hold other high positions at their RV company. These people aren’t trying to sell a camper to the end customer, but trying to convince dealers why they should stock an RV to sell to their customers.
Generally, Thor Industries is somewhat picky about who gets into the Open House. Dealers are let in, of course, but only a select few publications are hand-picked to be allowed through the gate. Usually, those let in tend to be industry publications and only a few influencers. The general public is not allowed. So, I thought it was an honor when I was invited to the Open House.
In 2022, I wrote a story about how going to an RV show is so much cooler than any car show. In that story, I had explained that going to a trade show allowed me to talk to a plethora of RV dealers from the perspective of them being the customer, not me. None of them were willing to go on the record, but many of them had complained that RV quality went into the toilet during the pandemic and wasn’t recovering. I also watched a Camping World affiliate and his employees comb over every inch of a Jayco Jay Flight, and then walk away shaking their heads.
I asked them what they thought was wrong with that camper, and they pointed out every quality issue. They specifically pointed me to these bolts holding the awning on, and told me that this is almost guaranteed to leak water really soon, and that the only true way to fix it would be to tear down the whole wall and rebuild that part of the trailer.
I followed my question up by asking them if they would seriously sell this camper to someone, and they told me that they will not be selling that model. That was an illuminating conversation, and one that I would not have been able to have at a public show.
I continued that article by talking about how awesome it was to tour new RVs without limits and how the RV/MH Hall Of Fame rolled out a bunch of historic RVs and put on a classic RV show. Everything I said in 2022 is valid today in 2025, and RV trade shows are some of the coolest trade shows you could go to.
Free Booze, Music, And Food
Then we get to the part that, I’ve been told, Thor Industries really didn’t like. I noted that the biggest departure between this dealer show and a public show was how attendees were treated. There were alcohol tents, food trucks, and catered food scattered all over the show, and all of it was free and unlimited.
Seriously, you just walk up to a tent, get a beer, and walk away. This wasn’t cheap stuff like Bud Light, either, but great local flavors and other tasty alcoholic beverages. It was the same deal with the food trucks and the catering. Thor Industries had invited skilled pitmasters, pizza makers, and more to this event, and the food was really good.
I began to notice a sort of trend. A dealer and their employees would walk up to a beer tent, get beer, and then walk around the display looking at campers. Then, they’d get more beer or get food, and then do that some more. Since there was so much alcohol flowing and so many places to get food, you could have spent the entire day walking around buzzed and on a full stomach while shopping for campers to sell to your customers. I mentioned this in only a single paragraph in my story, in passing.
At the time, I did not think anything of it, because that’s how automaker press events work. Automakers will happily set up an open bar and let both journalists and reps get totally sloshed. So, in my mind, this was the RV dealer equivalent of a press event.
I also noted that the 2022 show was especially wild because, in celebration of hitting all-time record sales in 2021, Thor decided to treat its dealers and factory employees to a Florida Georgia Line concert. At the time, it was actually the last time the music group had played together. If that wasn’t crazy enough, Nelly then appeared on stage for the remix of the song ‘Cruise.’ My mind was blown that, here I was at a private RV show in the middle of Indiana, and I was watching freaking Florida Georgia Line and Nelly while drinking free beer.
So, my article about that was positive. Because again, I was blown away by my look into the world of how RVs were sold. Apparently, my single paragraph about the beer tents caused major alarm at Thor Industries. Even though I didn’t realize it at the time, I had accidentally revealed the secret that Thor throws free food, beer, and concerts at dealerships while trying to sell them campers. Apparently, they did not expect that I would write about that.
A Different Kind Of Harbinger
The funny thing about this is that it has a sort of “Streisand Effect.” I actually didn’t care about the beer tents and had never intended to make a thing out of it or ever mention it again. However, this, as well as my stories about poor RV quality, have apparently made me a sort of “harbinger of doom” for Thor Industries.
Are the optics of throwing a great show for dealers really that bad? I hadn’t considered it until I heard this irked someone at Thor. Plenty of industries do the same, so I don’t fully understand what the issue is with me casually mentioning it. If you want something to be a secret, don’t make Nelly a part of it, right?
What’s also interesting is how all of this was presented to me. When I got my invite to the 2024 show, it wasn’t directly through Thor itself, as was the case in 2022 and 2023, but through Airstream. I didn’t think anything of this, because Airstream is Thor’s flagship brand and we love Airstream. But when I got there, the representative for Thor wondered why I was there. When I told them that Airstream invited me, I was informed that Airstream doesn’t actually have the power to invite people to shows, and that Thor had really invited Jason, instead.
But since I had made the drive, and since I had written many negative stories about how poorly my family’s camper is built, Thor’s people said that the least they could do was give me a good time. What was weird was that the camper that Airstream had invited me to see wasn’t even at the show. So the whole thing was just strange from start to finish. It was the first RV show in which I did a single-day speed run because I sort of just wanted to get back home.
Later on, it was suggested that the reason I wasn’t invited was that Thor thought I hated them, and that’s why they invited Jason to try out Thor’s new EREV RV, and not me. I wasn’t supposed to be there at all. Of course, the claim about me hating Thor is not true. I don’t harbor any ill feelings toward any brand, and never toward any PR person.
The Show Goes On
This year, we didn’t even get an accidental invite to the Open House. It could be because of the above, or it could just be that the RV industry has less money for beer, or maybe something else. I don’t know for sure. What I do know is that, as of right now, Thor, Forest River, and Winnebago do not really work with us. Airstream and a couple of other brands happily send us press releases, and I have sometimes written stories based on them, but that’s it.
The good news is that I already have a backup plan. I will still be going to the Florida show every January, and instead of going to Indiana in September, I will now be going to America’s largest RV show in Pennsylvania.
Just to clear the air one more time here, I do not hate any brand, any PR person, or anything like that. My goal isn’t to be a hater! I can’t even hold a grudge against my childhood bullies. I love all kinds of RVs, including the big ones, the tiny ones, and the weird ones.
At the same time, not all of what I write will be positive. There will be times when I don’t like an RV’s price, quality, or features. I cannot in good conscience ignore that stuff. I will also continue to write about the sorts of happenings that others do not. If you’re a manufacturer and my words are a cause for concern, maybe it’s a good time to work on fixing what I complained about, because if I notice it, I’m sure your customers notice the problem, too.
If anyone at any of the companies mentioned has issues with anything I wrote above or would like to start over, I know you’ve got my email because I’ve already reached out to you many times.
As if we needed a(nother) reason to hate Indiana.
I will likely never own a camper unless I build another van. But I do enjoy reading about them.
I have always enjoyed your RV articles and I think you’ve done a lot to illuminate the shady sides of the business.
I would someday like to own an RV I think. I would probably be a good use case for a truck camper: I take lots of weekend overnight trips to visit family, but they don’t have many available spare rooms so parking a camper in their driveway would be a big quality of life improvement. It would also be convenient for towing my car to weekend track events and giving my family a place to hang out in the AC during the day and sleep comfortably.
Your reviews have really opened my eyes to the pervasiveness of quality problems, and I think I’ll be more equipped to make a good decision if I ever do decide to take the plunge. Maybe a truck camper won’t be quite as susceptible to some of these problems, but then I remember how GRM basically had to completely rebuild theirs, so probably not lol.
Well I’m just glad there’s plenty of honesty and integrity left in the English-speaking part of the Internet, so thank you Mercedes, and the Autopian. Your site makes my day a little brighter.
If you read Chinese and hopped on the local sites, you’d be sorely disappointed by the “reviews” 🙁
JUST TO RECAP, WE FIND YOUR IDENTITY TO BE TALENTED AND WONDERFUL! Oh, and again, Fuck Thor Industries.
Fuck them Mercedes, Their loss! I appreciate your honest reviews and holding the A holes accountable. Before covid destroyed my life and I had to switch career gears I was in design for manufactured housing for over 40 years. I got in trouble all of the time for pointing out the piss poor quality that was so avoidable.
I thought I was the only one that immediately took a quick break at my wfh insurance job (another shitty industry) to read your latest RV post on the Autopian. After seeing how many comments you got on this article, I’m not alone! We love your reviews. Hell, I’ll be page 3 or 4 in the comment section before it’s over! Keep the reviews coming! One of my favorite you tube RV reviewers has been threatened with law suits for speaking out on the shit quality. Whenever I hear the term planes, trains, and automobiles I see your smiling face. I guess we’ll add to the it. Planes, trains, automobiles, and RV’s! Now that’s a movie I would like to see. Mercedes and Cheryl hook up a boat to the back of the Smart towing a teardrop trying to get to the air port to fly the little Cessna plane out in time. Why are we stopping? Cheryl, did you not see the diving board by that alligator filled pond? Oh, please, I gotta try it out. Would make for a great movie. Again, I apologize for being a bit harsh on you in the past. I thought I was trans once, thought I had to be actually to get accepted for loving the menfolk, and as a catholic raised gen x er I do get jealous of the taken for granted rights that gay/trans folks have now. You have no idea how hard I fought for the things come to be and for you to have the freedom for you to just be you. If only I were born 30 years later! Oh, don’t ever call yourself an influencer. I can hate those people, and it is ok. Every gen Xer on the planet will agree. I could never hate you, though. You are awesome. The identity I give you is wonderful, and incredibly talented. FUCK THOR!
Given how utterly craptastic the campers my folks bought 40 years ago were, today’s must be *horrifying*. And that included a succession of ever-larger Airstreams, supposedly the cream of the crop. Complete junk from Day 1.
So….you’re an honest journalist, and the industry wants sycophants. Sounds suspiciously like national politics these days.
To be fair, there’s really nothing new about that in politics or industry reviews. It’s just that it’s a lot easier to notice now. Whether it’s actually worse than in the past is up for debate.
This is fascinating. I hope the RV industry recognizes your value. I know I do. It really needs to clean up its act. Even in the “good ol days”–I bought an rPod in 2012. When winterizing it I found a tape measure left behind some poorly done irregular cuts for the pipes…it was labeled “Jose”. Keep up the good fight!
I also spent several days laying on my back, painting my frame with Por-15, after it got surface rust. Fun times. Hard to believe in this day and age we can’t have rust-proof frames.
It is baffling considering that these things cost that they don’t have fully galvanized frames at least. I am about to buy a utility trailer, the maker offers the same one powder-coated or fully galvanized. And it’s ALL galvanized – frame, sides, ramps, the works. The difference in price? $300. $1800 vs. $1500. An absolute no-brainer for a trailer that will live outside in Florida. The powder coated ones have visible rust sitting on the dealer’s lot. The galvanized trailers I see around town get dull with age – but they don’t rust.
We’re here for the honest reviews, not the regurgitated press releases. Keep up the great work.
Can we get an AMEN!
I am not into RVs (or bikes) at all, but I always find your RV (and motorcycle) articles fascinating, nonetheless. You are doing great work covering an enthusiast segment that isn’t used to being held to any standards. Thank you!
I support the reporting you do. It’s like listening to an highly informed friend when I read your articles about RVs – and I want you to continue your work!
Pointing out a product’s significant flaws allows buyers to make informed decisions. It seems awfully short-sighted for manufacturers to churn out crap. When the economy slows down and the ability to splurge by spending big bucks on an RV also slows down, even fewer people will be interested in rolling the dice on iffy craftsmanship.
Continue to be true to yourself and your audience here at Autopian.
I wouldn’t have gone back to the show for fear of being exposed to another Florida Georgia Line performance.
Mercedes, I may never buy a travel trailer or an RV, but I read and appreciate your articles! From bikes to cars to RVs, then trains and planes, never change or cave to manufacturer pressure.
I see a trend of writing the past few days on the Autopian of writers having to defend how they portray different manufacturers. Stand your ground and don’t change a thing.
I don’t own an RV, but a couple of friend do. One purchased a Sprinter based RV. It had some electrical issues brand new. When my friend look a closer look he ended up redoing almost all the wiring himself because it was terrible. He had the skills and didn’t trust the manufacturer or dealer not do do another bad job. My other buddy had had to deal with water damage under fiberglass due to leaks after a few years. Only real critical reporting and acknowlegement of the issues will bring changes.
If the RV manufacturers spent some of their entertainment / marketing budget on production, they wouldn’t need to worry about honest coverage of their products.
Soon they think they won’t have to deal with journalists or criticism at all. You’re being much too kind to ‘influencers.’ The yes man regurgitate the press release ‘influencers’ all follow the script and will be entirely replaced by AI as soon as f’n possible. Because, why would you not? There is no reason to treat them nicely when you can replace them and bounce them onto page twelve of search results with a few prompts.
Influencers are too stupid to realize how little value they actually have. They’re all hoping to be important enough to do a crypto rug pull at some point. Most will just end up as baristas with their lame attempts at online success available online forever.
Keep doing what you’re doing, Mercedes. Even if you are the only one doing it, you’re doing it right. You can catch their sh*tty RV’s at RV shows or dealers. Getting a chance to see garbage early is of little value. If you didn’t have an audience and were not a threat, they wouldn’t change their approach to you.
I used to be a supplier to the marine / rv industry. Boats are generally built like crap. RVs (outside of a few brands) can only aspire to the terrible initial build quality of boats.
Entertainment / Marketing is a tax write-off.
Better construction is not something they can charge more for because their prices are already so inflated – so it comes out of shareholder returns.
And we cannot cut shareholder returns.
This is the way of Corporate America in the 21st Century.
Not into the RV lifestyle or the bible but the truth shall set you free and that is you, thanks.
RV’s combine the worst parts of a house with the worst parts of a trailer. KISS is wonderful when applied to these things. Going nuts with the frippery gives more vacation ruining potential. But a warm bed with real sheets and a solid roof overhead is harder to screw up.
You’re a polite person, MS. Even now you haven’t written the obvious summary: the conglomerate making most of the country’s RV’s is over reacting to any negative press coverage of their flawed products. Therefore they try to punish anyone who publishes inconvenient facts beyond the press releases. (Why does this bring the Department of Defense to mind right now?) Thor knows that reduced QC was the price of their huge production levels.
This attempted coverup destroys any desire I might have to buy a Thor product, but frankly I’m more of a Mercedes GLK/Scamp type of tow-er. Any trailer constructed from dozens of structural components and hauled down bumpy roads is bound to be more leaky and squeaky than Scamp’s two-piece septic tank structure. It’s hard to break an egg trailer’s structure, and almost every component can be easily replaced. I’ve pulled a 30-year-old trailer successfully from Denver to Seattle and back. Where are the stick-built trailers of the same vintage now? On blocks, down by the river.
“Thor knows that reduced QC was the price of their huge production levels.”
That’s really their choice. The defect rate of RVs would not be accepted in other consumer products.
If your TV had to spend two months at the retailer for repairs/service before you could use it for a weekend, you wouldn’t accept it. If your Kia required the same ‘out-of-serivice’ time you’d be complaining about it as loudly as possible (as would we all).
These RV manufacturers aren’t scrappy startups offering revolutionary features and just dropping the ball a tiny bit on final fit and finish. These guys have been producing garbage for decades with the same materials and assembly techniques. If they cared at all about producing a quality product they would have easily done it by now. They are actively choosing to make garbage, and deserve to be called on it.
It’s the hard path to be legit in the modern world (probably the older one too, no rose colored glasses here). But keep up the good work! You’re doing awesome!
What a bunch of BS from those guys, Mercedes. I doubt there is another journalist out there that has brought more new eyes to the RV industry than you over the past few years. You’ve got all of us car nuts reading articles about campers and loving it! Maybe they’re not used to actual journalists and got too comfy with writers from the trade rags and influencers. Whatever the reason, keep doing your thing and we’ll keep reading!
That anyone is surprised that these events only exist to move the metal is strange.
Honesty beats bullshit every single day.
Screw them.
And we wonder why the builders of this crap have such poor reputations?
Because they deserve it.
Once again. Screw them.
“. Most of those bad memories came from those times when our camper had either broken down, ruining a holiday, or failed, costing us thousands of dollars in repairs”
I grew up with a camper (a 1976 Starcraft Galaxy 8) and loved it when I was young.
But I also remember all the stuff my dad had to fix on the camper.
It was fun for me because at most, I only had to help my dad from time to time.
The problems I remember our camper had were:
-Surge brakes that didn’t work properly that I recall my dad fixing while we were on vacation
-lights/lighting that needed regular attention/repairs
-a heater that never worked
-a fridge that only sort-of worked
-issues with the push-out beds
And I know it was an annual routine to open the camper, test everything and fix broken stuff before we went on vacation.
And that’s why when I got older and had my own kids, when I priced out the cost of trailer plus the cost of a beefier vehicle needed to tow it AND remembered the issues my dad had to deal with, I stuck to using a tent.
You missed the plot. You buy a fullsized RV trailer to justify buying an oversized truck.
I was stuck behind an asshat in an F250 dually tonight. Must have changed the wheels because his rear wheels were outside of the fenders by at least 3.5″ on each side. No mudflaps to cover. No over-fenders.
If he’s just driving it to feel like cool real truck guy? Fuck you.
If he’s using it as a daily driver but tows once a month? Fuck you.
If he’s driving it in the winter and shooting salt and sand chinks at me? Fuck you, and I will stab one of your tires at the next stoplight. Not a problem since your ED self is not towing or hauling.
Yep, my neighbor just upgraded to an F250 for that reason. Doesn’t own his house and I’m pretty sure the second oldest girl is in a “cyber charter” to help with the baby, but he’s got an F250 and a trailer that he pays to store.
My dad was too cheap to buy an oversized/overpriced truck to tow a trailer.
He was more like “I’ll just tow it with the car I have… It’ll be fiiine”
He was also a tool and die maker and had access to lots of scrap metal and all the machine shop equipment you’d ever need.
So for the trailer hitch he was too cheap to spend money on a proper receiver hitch.
He instead welded (using stainless steel welding rods) and riveted on a 1/2 inch piece of steel (with a hole drilled through for the hitch ball) to our 1976 Gran Torino’s frame.
And he was also too cheap to buy a hitch ball. He fabricated one out of a scrap piece of stainless steel.
The car we had rusted away, but that hitch was still solid and unremovable to the very end.
Speaking truth in today’s world is a risky situation. I have always appreciated your articles and I agree with all of your criticisms about the RV industry. Personally, I would just move on from RVs, write an article utterly trashing most of the industry, create a checklist that RV buyers could use to sort out a good one, and then just move onto covering Skoolie builds.
The nice thing about Skoolies is they’re starting with an existing platform that’s built like a brick shithouse; they have their own issues but I’d take a skoolie over an RV almost every single time.
RVs are something I love the idea of, but that idea seems to fail on every level when it hits reality.
The vast majority of RVs have terrible design and are built poorly, while being far too expensive. They get beaten out by hotel rooms for luxury and convenience, and really nice car camping gear for price and convenience.
The fact that the RV industry is so slimy isn’t really a surprise, given the fact that the sales pitch for their product can’t be burdened by an honest analysis of the alternatives.
RVs made some sense to me before airbnb and VRBO got up and running. You can stay in a real house in a huge variety of places, without having to buy, finance, insure or repair anything.
My wife’s aunt and uncle have a class A, and every time we see them, the uncle tells me all the outrageous expenses they had on their last trip. It boggles the mind.You could easily go to the same places, fly 1st class, rent a great car, stay in the best hotels, heck even resorts, and still come out ahead compared to their annual cost of repair and maintenance.
Don’t forget depreciation and insurance and fuel, which be even bigger on going expenses.
It really depends on where you are going. Even with AirBnB there are a lot of places were there are no good fixed housing options nearby so if you are going to stay at a hotel or home you will be doing a LOT of driving on your trip. My wife and I just finished 2 week trip in our campervan (which I converted myself because commercial RVs are garbage). One night we were 55 miles from the nearest paved road. Plenty of others we were hours of driving from a town of any size. We went 3 days without seeing a town large enough to have a traffic light.
I’m aware of the benefits of overlanding and boondocking (but are they the same?) National parks ands forests can be marvelous, but they’re filling up fast and will probably less clean and safe this year after the federal cuts. The best trailer camping I’ve done lately was at Hipcamps, one at a rural home south of Seattle and an out-of-season salmon fishing camp near Astoria, Oregon. One offered laundry services at $5 per load. This sort of “backyard boondocking” seems like the fastest-growing camping resource these days.
I wouldn’t consider anything we did on this last trip overlanding. Everything was on clearly marked roads and could be done with Honda Civic. There a just a LOT of gravel roads in the rural west. In one case on this last trip it would have added 150 miles to stay on paved roads. We also didn’t do any boondocking on this trip although we have done it in the past.
I can’t say I saw any evidence that BLM land is filling up fast. Outside of Grand Teton none of the federal or state campgrounds we stayed at were full. I’ve aware that there are problems with basically squatters on federal lands close to population centers like Bend and Portland but when you get out away from cities it isn’t that bad. We have stayed at multiple places with nobody else there. As to budget cuts – we mostly saw that at visitor centers and other staffed locations. The land itself was still open and available.
I hadn’t heard of Hipcamps. It sounds interesting for more urban areas or places close to urban areas. Lots of options in western Oregon but basically nothing in southeast Oregon were we were recently. Put in a place like Frenchglen, OR by Steen Mountain and the closest host is in Bend almost 3 hours away.
Access to remote areas is great for smaller campers, like a converted van. For me, there isn’t a big enough benefit over a nice tent and car camping setup. We got a fast setup tent that takes about 2 minutes to set up and about 5 minutes to take down. The tent, mattress, kitchen setup, and the entire kit of stuff were about $2k, and we don’t need to deal with an extra vehicle when we aren’t camping. Now that we traded the pickup in for a Sienna hybrid, the fuel costs on trips aren’t bad either.
But I don’t have any extra parking spots, and when we head out to go camping, we don’t move around much. We tend to find a spot and stick around. A friend has a converted van, and he likes it because he rarely spends more than 1-2 nights at any location, often ending up overnighting in Walmart lots while traveling from one location to another. I will just get a hotel if needed while on the way to the camping location.
It definitely depends on the use case to a degree. Small-ish camper vans provide the most flexibility and tend to cost the least as well.
I tent camped for years – still do on backbacking trips – but I can’t see going back to it for car camping. There are some pretty big differences though that I see in our situations. First, I don’t have space or HOA limitations. We currently have 4 vehicles including the campervan and the ambulance that I’m in the process of converting to an RV and still could add another vehicle or two. Two blocks north and HOA rules don’t allow RVs or work vehicles so I would be paying $200 a month to store an RV offsite. One of many reasons I will never buy a home with an HOA or even entertain a condo.
Second, we don’t go someplace and stay for a week or two. On the last trip we spend 2 nights in one spot and the rest was a night at a time. I find it a huge pain to set up and take down camp every day. Especially in my local climate were half the year it is likely raining. I don’t even like having a day / night configuration in a camper. (Did my first 2 van conversions with a convertible space before switching to a fixed bed.) I’ve also not a fan of tent camping in the snow or temps below freezing – which we do. Camping is a year-round thing for us as we fish, hike, snowshoe, and ski in the winter. With a campervan we do have the option to simply pull over and sleep both in the city or at a trailhead. In either case tent camping isn’t an option.
I bought our current 2004 Chevy campervan 10 years ago and we are $7,000 into the purchase and conversion. No bad and my wife used to drive it to work once a week and bike commuted the other 4 days. I expect the ambulance to cost about $50K but is a much more elaborate setup and will be used for full-time nomadic life not short trips.
I would disagree that campervans are cheapish – at least if like most people you buy a commercially produced camper. They basically start at $100K and go up from there. You can get a large Class C for less – but of course it will be garbage and be made of fiberglass over particle board that steadily falls apart and leaks.
Yeah, the length of stay is a huge factor. When I head out camping, my goal is to reduce the amount of faffing about I need to do so we find a very nice spot and stay put. We have our setup refined to the point that it takes maybe 20 minutes to set up camp and about 30 to pack it back in the car. We also have a quick setup screen tent, which is where we put our little table, chairs, and kitchen stuff. Often, we will set up someplace other than where our sleeping tent is, so we don’t get critters interested in our sleeping space.
We don’t have an HOA, but we do live in a residential urban area with a double-car garage off an alley. I am one of the few houses to have two garage spaces. I tend to put more miles on my bike than my car these days, but one garage spot has our so anything family truckster and the other the Miata and neither could be swapped for something that can’t be used for regular transportation. Plus, I am sure our garage isn’t tall enough to handle a camper van.
Camper vans are by no means cheap, unless you compare them to the full-size stuff. My experience is that all of the mainstream brands are built like garbage regardless of their size. The smaller makers can produce some nice stuff, but they charge for it as well.
I have looked at options to modify our Sienna to handle some camping duties that would keep us from needing the tent. It would be fairly straightforward to do. But the setup time isn’t that much different, and even the small kitchen or bed setups for our van are a lot more than our tents cost. Right now, we have four Rubbermaid totes in our garage that are always packed and ready to go. We load those into the van along with some groceries and clothes, and off we go.
Airbnb / Hotels. I dare you to find a worse deal than an RV.
What does 365 nights a year of hotels or AirBnB cost? I’d say low end about $45K
RVs are a bad deal if you use them a week or 2 a year. The more they get used the more sense they make. Also the more remote the destination.
There aren’t many RVs manufactured today that could handle year-round use. The ones that may work for that start at over a half million dollars.
A mid-range RV would require a lot of upgrades to the fixtures to support constant use.
The vast majority of people I know or have talked to that are full timing aren’t in $500K plus RVs. Most are in tow behinds or Class-Cs that are in the $100K or less range.
I also know plenty of people that use RVs as second / vacation homes parked at their vacation property and use them most weekends per year – year after year.
People always say this, but then it’s not your own space. If I’m going to live in it for a month or so while traveling around, I want to have my own space with all my things right where I want them, and not have to pack and unpack constantly. I mean, sure, if you’re doing an overnight trip to visit someone, an RV doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but for a road trip, there isn’t any better situation.