Home » America Can’t Stop Buying ‘Mid’ Cars

America Can’t Stop Buying ‘Mid’ Cars

Tmd Mid Fever Ts

One of the biggest perks of my chosen career is that I’ve had the chance to drive a lot of cars. I did the math and I’ve gotten behind the wheel of more than 1,000 different vehicles, ranging from tiny electric city cars to Bugattis and Lamborghinis. As much fun as it is to drive an exotic, I’m way more impressed by a car company that can make a really good affordable car.

Give engineers all the money and all the time and of course they’ll make an excellent supercar or luxury cruiser. I have never driven a mediocre new Rolls-Royce or Ferrari. It’s so much more of an accomplishment to build a car that a normal family can afford that manages to stand out above the competition. After a lot of talk about cars getting bigger, about people not being able to afford new cars, it’s neither the affordable cars nor the bigger cars that have seen growth this years. It’s the ‘mid’ cars. The practical ones. This includes minivans, a Morning Dump favorite.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

With this data, where do you think Volkswagen is planning to go in the United States? Towards larger trucks and SUVs. I guess no one is that worried about affordable cars if there’s no competition from Chinese automakers, and one senator seems to be stopping a plan to block them from selling here. Not that China can afford to keep undercutting everyone forever, as various levels of government in that country seem to be signaling to automakers to stop burning so much cash.

It’s Hip To Be Mid

Cox Automotive put out their Q3 sales forecast update, and there’s a lot of good stuff in it if you’re as obsessed with the car market as I am. The general trends remain, in that consumers seem to still be buying cars even if there are a lot of larger macroeconomic signs that indicate it should be a tougher market.

Not like there’s a lot of growth. It’s going to be both a “mid” year in the parlance of youth, in that it’ll neither be great nor terrible, as well as a “mid” year when you consider what buyers are actually buying. Check out this chart:

Cox Q3 Sales Forecast

Basically every segment is down this year except for subcompact SUVs, midsize cars, midsize SUVs, midsize trucks, and minivans. To clarify, the ‘Mid SUV” is probably drawn from the KBB definition, which means anything larger than a RAV4 but smaller than a Tahoe.

This may seem sort of unexpected if you haven’t been paying attention to the shifting consumer behavior. Here’s Cox’s Senior Economist Charlie Chesbrough explaning what’s going on:

Looking at the top 10 segments, which represent 88% of all sales, we see middle ground, or more practical segments gaining. Year to date, the more affordable segments like Compact SUV and Compact Car, priced less than $40K – are down this year compared to last year. High interest rates and high prices are impacting affordability for these segments’ customer base.

However, the more expensive segments like $70K full-size trucks, $78K luxury midsize SUVs, and $83K Full-size SUVs are also down this year. Those segments all saw gains or were flat last year. What is selling are Midsize cars, Midsize trucks and Midsize SUVs. As we stated in March – Mid is In – and in June – and at the end of September, Mid is Still In. And, the family friendly Minivan segment, about as practical as there is, is seeing the biggest percentage gains of all this year.

These buyer trends may be showing a shift towards value in the marketplace. Affordability concerns and economic uncertainty may be leading more affluent segments to lose their customers to the more practical. And, high prices may be leading customers of the more affordable segments to pull-back from buying new vehicles and push them into the used market.

That last bit is what’s really interesting to me. A logical conclusion might be that affordable cars would be more popular, but some of those buyers are being shifted into used cars. While it’s still a K-Shaped economy and there are plenty of buyers at the higher end able to buy a luxury SUV without blinking, the mid-level white collar jobs held by upper middle class people are probably most at risk from AI and so it tracks that those consumers are maybe skipping the German SUV for maybe something a little more practical like a Telluride.

Availability is also key. Data has shown affordable cars don’t sit on the lot for very long, and that trimflation and other factors (tariffs) are making it more difficult to find sub-$30k cars.

Mid is in.

What’s VW Going To Do In The United States?

01 D3 Terra Exterior Major 5205
The 2027 Scout Terra. Source: Scout Motors

I’m very much on the record saying that Volkswagen, via Scout, is going to probably end up making a gas-powered Audi SUV in South Carolina. That hasn’t all been hashed out yet, officially, and Reuters reports that this is one of those things the board is considering in Germany today:

VW Group’s supervisory board meets today, with unresolved issues ranging from details of the restructuring to its strategy in the U.S., where the company has lost billions due to painful tariffs.

The automaker wants to pivot towards the most profitable U.S. segments, such as pickups and large SUVs. The board must settle the long-standing question of whether premium brand Audi should get its own U.S. factory or use a new plant under construction for VW Group subsidiary Scout in Blythewood, South Carolina.

At least the pickup is likely to be mid (sized).

China Car Ban On Hold Because Of One Senator

Denza Z9 GT
Source: BYD

The US Congress is almost certainly going to end up passing a bill that effectively bans Chinese cars. A key step might have timed out with the appearance of a delegation from China led by President Xi Jinping, with 99 out of 100 senators on board to fast track legislation. Unfortunately, the bill’s sponsors needed all 100.

Why wasn’t it fast-tracked? Reuters, via the South China Morning Post, explains:

Republican Senator Bernie Moreno and Democratic Senator Elissa Slotkin had planned to seek ‌approval for the procedure – which requires unanimous Senate backing – on Thursday, the same day that US President Donald Trump met China’s President Xi Jinping in Washington.

But instead they will delay things and hold talks with Republican Senator Rand Paul, who had raised some concerns, in an effort to convince him to allow passage, congressional aides said. Paul’s office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Both Democrats and Republicans think this will pass in the coming weeks.

State-Controlled Chinese Car Companies Are Reaching The Limit Of ‘Burning Cash Every Year’

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Photo: GAC

The funny thing about China’s strong pivot towards carmaking is that it led to a brutal price war that cost the country a lot of money. So much money. It’s a price that the ruling Communist Party might have been willing to pay in the past, but now the party is interested in AI and robotics, which means the tap is being turned off slowly.

One way this has been implemented is in the merging of the joint ventures between state-owned carmakers Guangzhou Automobile (GAC) Group/First Automotive Works (FAW) Group and Toyota.

Per Nikkei Asia:

“That marked a very important start [and shows] that the local governments behind the state-owned enterprises are finally reaching the limit of bearing losses every year, or burning cash every year,” said Feng Xiao, co-head of China industrial research at brokerage CLSA.

Feng predicted a number of state-owned carmakers, including Dongfeng, BAIC, SAIC and JAC, will move forward with potential mergers, either among themselves or with privately owned auto groups. “We’re going to see an accelerating trend of further consolidation in the domestic market,” he said.

The country’s auto industry has the capacity to make 40 million cars, but only buys about 20 million cars internally and exports another 10 million, leaving a huge gap.

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

It’s time for fall vibes. I don’t know why “CHIHIRO” by Billie Eilish feels fall-like to me. It just does. Maybe it’s the Spirited Away connection.

The Big Question

Do you own any mid cars of either definition?

Top graphic images: Toyota; GM; Kia

 

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Harvey Firebirdman
Member
Harvey Firebirdman
2 minutes ago

The Polestar 2 is considered a sub-compact so nope on that. Also that graph is weird because what are they throwing sports/muscle cars under? Things like the Mustang, Miata, GT86 and so really don’t fit any of the categories listed. So no idea where I would put my Firebirds under what they have listed.

Just looked it up my FJ is considered a Mid-Suv so I guess I have at least one “mid” vehicle. Would assume my D250 is considered a full size truck even by todays standards hah.

SkaterDad
Member
SkaterDad
3 minutes ago

TBQ: The Model 3 probably qualifies. Mid sized, for sure. Some would say the interior is quite mid as well.

Drunken Bum
Drunken Bum
8 minutes ago

Yes, my Sonata is mid in so many ways

Twobox Designgineer
Twobox Designgineer
10 minutes ago

Current: mid SUV
going backwards thru time:
compact wagon
compact sedan
compact sedan
compact sedan
minivan
mid sedan
mid sedan
mid coupe
mid? small? sedan

Last edited 10 minutes ago by Twobox Designgineer
TheDrunkenWrench
Member
TheDrunkenWrench
12 minutes ago

My Sorento was the epitome of Mid. It was very reliable, a beast in the snow, and somehow sucked nearly all the joy out of driving.

A true feat of engineering.

Matt Sexton
Member
Matt Sexton
12 minutes ago

I have a 2012 Colorado, which was considered a midsized pickup at the time. It has the 5-cylinder, and overall it’s pretty mid. It’s got some dents and scratches and a bit of rust. In other words, it’s a perfect truck for doing Truck Stuff. I agree, mid can be cool.

Phil
Phil
20 minutes ago

“Do you own any mid cars of either definition?”

Not currently, the midsize sedan was replaced by a used premium sedan a few years ago because I wanted stuff and power. But it’s a great segment. A $30-35K Accord, Camry, or Altima is a nice proposition if you don’t really need a CUV cargo area.

CR-Vs and RAV4s being classified as compact CUVs still throws me, btw. They’re not compact by any intuitive reckoning.

JDE
JDE
20 minutes ago

I had a VW Passat, it was the 5 cylinder variant, it was very mid to me.

I kind of feel like the 2007 Silverado is mid as well, simply because so many were purchased like that one. Basic 5.3, 4×4 extended cab. But I could be wrong on that one.

Littlebag
Member
Littlebag
28 minutes ago

Technically I think my Mach-E counts as a compact CUV, but my standards were set in the 90s so it feels like a giant hatchback to me. Does that count?

3WiperB
Member
3WiperB
32 minutes ago

TBQ – Yeah, I have a few Mid-Cars. ’21 BMW 330e and a ’08 STS. But also a full size truck, 2 compact Miatae and a Bolt EUV

It’s getting harder and harder to find Mid-Cars and I’m not one that wants an SUV or Crossover. I only have a truck because it’s a necessity to pull our camper.

Used electrics must be increasing in sales. Asking prices for something similar to our Bolt have gone up about 20% since I purchased ours in December of last year.

Urban Runabout
Member
Urban Runabout
38 minutes ago

My CLK convertible was marketed as a midsize grand tourer.
However the EPA considers it a Subcompact.

I dunno – So confused.

*Jason*
*Jason*
25 minutes ago
Reply to  Urban Runabout

EPA classes are based on interior size. “Market” classes are based on vibes and manufacturer’s press releases. Similar to vanity sizing in clothing where today I wear a smaller size than in high school despite being 50 lbs heavier and pants with a 32″ waist might actually measure 38 inches.

The Accord has gone from subcompact to a large car in EPA classes over the years as it got steadily larger but most of the media as always called it a “midsize” sedan.

Asmallcat
Asmallcat
38 minutes ago

We have 2024 plug-in hybrid Tuscon, so I suspect that falls in mid (it’s the same size as a Rav-4, but I don’t know if the category starts at Rav-4 or the previous category ends there).

I suspect my manual Veloster is well in the compact range.

VictoriousSandwich
Member
VictoriousSandwich
38 minutes ago

RE: midsize cars, maybe this is my axe to grind as a tall guy (6’5″) but I swear small cars are less roomy than they used to be.

In my past I’ve daily driven an e30, EK Civic, and a 1st gen Mazda 3. All small cars, especially the 1st two, if you look at an e30 now it looks positively tiny yet rode in my buddy’s the other day and was pleasantly surprised to see my memory was right and I still fit in it quite comfortably.

Yet I test drove a Corolla GR last month, which I’m pretty sure is “bigger” than any of the three above and could barely find room for myself, and the cargo area is a joke. My inlaws 2012 Honda Fit I swear is smaller inside than the 1st gen Fit my buddy had in college, or if not smaller less capacious.

Wuffles
Wuffles
34 minutes ago

RE: midsize cars, maybe this is my axe to grind as a tall guy (6’5″) but I swear small cars are less roomy than they used to be.

This isn’t your imagination, they are less roomy. There’s a lot more systems to cram inside, but the real culprit is safety: modern cars are more cramped because the crash structure is so much beefier, and that comes with a significant intrusion into cabin space.

VictoriousSandwich
Member
VictoriousSandwich
10 minutes ago
Reply to  Wuffles

Yeh for sure, but also I think it highlights why imo everyone is going increasingly to midsize cars, small cars just suck now. I also think aero is a big part of it, the windshield glass is so laid back that you wind up with some weird proportions inside.

Littlebag
Member
Littlebag
25 minutes ago

I don’t know, I sat in a ’99 Lexus ES and my head touched the ceiling and that counted as a midsize. I’m only 5’8″

VictoriousSandwich
Member
VictoriousSandwich
8 minutes ago
Reply to  Littlebag

Wild, can’t say I’ve ever ridden in one. Though I have driven a ’93 Camry comfortably, and even the smaller ’88 Camry we borrowed from my friends dad years ago to take a road trip had plenty of room, with 3 guys in it! Arguably maybe the early ’00s was the beginning of the decline, my current car a 2005 Legacy really doesn’t fit me comfortably and I’m nearly positive I’d have no problems driving a ’90s Legacy.

Littlebag
Member
Littlebag
2 minutes ago

I don’t know what was going on then. I can’t imagine one model cycle making that much difference, it is just a Camry in a sensible suit after all. Maybe the owner had the seat height adjustment cranked all the way up.

Cerberus
Member
Cerberus
20 minutes ago

No, it’s true and I’m only 5’11” with longer limb proportions, so my issue isn’t usually height, but limb movement clearance. I could operate all manual windows—including the rear—from the driver’s seat of my early 80s Subarus without having to even turn my head from the windshield, yet it felt roomier to sit in than an Ascent. Sticking with Subaru, I also think my mk1 Legacy wagon had more useable space because it was more horizontal and didn’t pad the volume numbers with worthless space like the 4″ of trim between the windows and useable interior space nor did it have a sloping roofline that makes the vertical volume above the lower trailing roof edge almost worthless. Footprint-wise, the Ascent is a short school bus, but the mk1 Legacy is BRZ-sized (longer due to the rear end, but 5″ narrower, same wheelbase, same weight). Then there’s the massively oversized center consoles, low-reaching dashboards that stick out looking for knees, and doors thick enough that they could have been fitted to shore batteries on the Atlantic Wall. I sat in a Saab Sonett II, which would be a microcar by today’s standards, and had a ton of room in it. Newer cars suck ass.

The Corolla is also one of the worst cars out now for space efficiency. I had a sedan as a loaner and the space in my GR86 was more useful as the entire rear seat drops and the Corolla only has a pass-through. The hatch is little better—compact exterior with sub-compact interior. I looked at them after my Focus ST, but it would have been a huge downgrade in every way, including interior space (which was already compromised on the ST by a higher floor to clear the larger full-sized spare over the standard Focus).

VictoriousSandwich
Member
VictoriousSandwich
3 minutes ago
Reply to  Cerberus

Yeh I mean the the major bummer with the GR is that it’s so much goodness wrapped in what is arguably the worst small car on the market by a pretty large margin. I rode in a Corolla sedan awhile back and even as a passenger could never really get comfortable in it.

And before I bought my 2005 Legacy GT wagon, which ironically given this conversation I’ve been debating selling because I don’t quite fit in it comfortably, I test drove a Focus ST and it definitely has more useful interior proportions than the GR. I was really turned off by the torque steer otherwise I probably would’ve bought one.

Anonymous Person
Anonymous Person
39 minutes ago

“The Big Question:
Do you own any mid cars of either definition?”

1977 MGB – Too small to be a ‘Mid’. ☒

1979 El Camino – Based on the mid-size Chevy Malibu.  ✓

2003 Envoy – Midsize SUV.  ✓

2010 Canyon 2WD Regular-Cab 5-speed – Midsize pickup.  ✓

2015 Cruze – Compact Sedan. ☒

2024 Trax LS – Subcompact SUV. ☒

So 50% of our fleet.

Autonerdery
Member
Autonerdery
44 minutes ago

TBQ: Our three-car fleet is pretty tightly clustered in size (183-189″), right around what I would consider midsize. I would like to think that the kids wouldn’t call them “mid,” though. All RWD, two rear engine/motor, none of them greyscale, none of them crossovers…that’s got to count for something, right?

Last edited 42 minutes ago by Autonerdery
Arch Duke Maxyenko
Member
Arch Duke Maxyenko
44 minutes ago

/perms up hair/ None of my cars are mid bro, frfr no cap, straight bussin

Facts

James McHenry
Member
James McHenry
45 minutes ago

TBQ: I have an FR-S and a modified vintage Beetle so…no. My early ’90s Murray Bio-Tech bicycle is pretty mid, though, being an early hybrid MTB. I guess that counts.

4jim
4jim
46 minutes ago

Are people not buying the compact stuff or are there just way fewer on car lots as everything just keeps getting bigger.

I own a Minivan and a wrangler.

TK-421
TK-421
48 minutes ago

Is a 2019 Crosstrek a “mid”?

VictoriousSandwich
Member
VictoriousSandwich
37 minutes ago
Reply to  TK-421

Based on my experience the crosstrek is definitely mid

Last edited 36 minutes ago by VictoriousSandwich
Ranwhenparked
Member
Ranwhenparked
50 minutes ago

TBQ: yeah, I think so, 1 compact coupe and 1 small 2-seat commuter car, I guess those fall within the definition

Alexk98
Member
Alexk98
51 minutes ago

I think the sales by category explains a lot of what is being expressed by vibes in the US. Luxury and mega-big (Tahoe, etc.) vehicles are down while people move into commodity 3-Row crossovers and Minivans, instead of Q7s and GLEs. The subcompact crossover is growing due to the death of the low-end of the markets sedans and hatchbacks.

The retraction in compact SUVs I find interesting. If I had to speculate, it’s because people are either going up or down in size, for many a compact (Rav4) is either more than is necessary so they are pivoting to subcompact as they are squeezed financially, or they are moving into a minivan as they have more kids and it becomes too small. The number of people I know with compact SUVs despite being either single or DINKs is still bizarre to me, but some are reconsidering how much car they need.

Regardless, the growth of the “most practical” and most cost effective vehicle segments alongside an overall retraction shows just how bad the US economy is getting. Rising rates and gas prices will only accelerate it, and the US oil reserves being near critical levels will be a painful squeeze on a lot of people very soon.

*Jason*
*Jason*
29 minutes ago
Reply to  Alexk98

I don’t find DINKs buying things like CRVs and RAV4s odd at all. They are extremely practical vehicles for a good price. At least in my circle the DINKs make up for the lack of hauling around kids and car seat with transporting bikes, and camping gear, and other things for fun activities they do on their child-free weekends.

Hard to put two mountain bikes in a Honda Civic.

Alexk98
Member
Alexk98
13 minutes ago
Reply to  *Jason*

I guess my point was more that I know some couples in that position with two vehicles in that size class, where they only ever take one on trips/vacations/etc, where a second much smaller car would be plenty adequate and cost effective. Then again, the DINK couples I know make good enough money so they can reasonably buy whatever the please

Littlebag
Member
Littlebag
5 minutes ago
Reply to  Alexk98

I think the compact crossover is the default car the way a midsize sedan used to be. If someone just doesn’t care about cars and makes an OK amount of money, a RAV4 is just fine.

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