If you’ve been following along at home, you probably know that I’m generally pretty meh about my Subaru Forester ownership experience and have been passively shopping for something else. I’m an auto journalist so this is fairly easy for me, as I can just try out all the other cars I’m considering. Today’s car? The Toyota RAV4 Prime, aka, the plug-in one.
I’m quite set on a hybrid, as most of my commutes are short, city drives of the kind that benefit from a hybrid drivetrain. This is why I’d love a Ford Maverick and am still actively lobbying for one, though my lobbying hasn’t worked thus far. I’d consider an electric car if I had the ability to charge it at home or work (aka home), which I don’t. The Corolla Cross Hybrid worked out quite well for me and is a little smaller than my Forester.
The family was fine with the Corolla Cross Hybrid and liked the two-tone, but we use our car like most people use their garages and the trunk was slightly smaller. What’s the perfect blend of sometimes-EV, usually-hybrid, reliable, and roomy enough? Enter the RAV4 Prime.
Argument #1: The RAV4 Is The Closest Thing To Our Forester In Size
Things that are better when they’re bigger:
- Chicken fried steaks
- 9th inning rallies
- Renaissance portraits
Things that are generally not better when they’re bigger:
- Artichokes
- 9th inning rallies when it’s the other team
- Cars
It feels like everything is getting bigger all the time. This is less than ideal, especially because I want to have the least amount of car that I can get away with at any given moment. Conveniently, the RAV4 is almost exactly the same size as my old Forester. Seriously, check the numbers:
The Forester is 181 inches long, 71 inches wide, and 67 inches tall. The RAV4 Prime is 181 long, 73 inches wide, and 67 inches tall. So it’s a little wider, but barely.
I borrowed the car to take on a road trip around Texas so, while it wasn’t living a comparable life to my Subaru in New York, I’d at least get to experience a range of driving experiences common to my daily life (going through a drive-thru, going to HEB, putting a kid covered in sand into a car).
Inside it’s a lot newer and nicer than our old Subaru, and it easily fits a family of three (that isn’t going to get any bigger). The tacked-on-screen design is the default in this class, even if it isn’t my personal favorite. Oh well, it was nice to have Carplay.
Out back, there was plenty of space for this long weekend trip, and my daughter had plenty of room to stretch out in the backseat. If there’s one thing that constantly bothered us about the RAV4 Prime it’s the powered rear hatch, which would nervously stop short with any interference, wait for us to hit the open button, then go the opposite direction of what we intended. I prefer a non-powered hatch which, again, is getting rarer and rarer in this class of car.
The front butt-holders in the Subaru are cheap cloth seats that are nevertheless comfortable. The front seats in the RAV4 are a little stiff for my taste, though it’s possible I need to wear them in a bit with my posterior.
My little gripes about the car’s day-to-day usability aside, there would be no discernable loss of function by switching from a Forester to a RAV4 Hybrid.
HOW THIS ARGUMENT DID (9/10)
Argument #2: The RAV4 Is Way Quicker Than The Forester
What, exactly, is the upside of a BOXER engine in my Forester? It’s hard for me to articulate. One thing I don’t get out of my symmetrical all-wheel is anything approaching speed. Most estimates seem to peg the 0-60 mph out of the Forester with the 2.5-liter flat-four at around 9 seconds.
My Subaru is usually loaded with crap, so I’m lucky to get down to anything that feels like sub-10 seconds. I mention “feel” because the Subaru’s CVT always gives the impression of being about as interested in change as your average 90-year-old billionaire.
As previously explored in my Corolla Cross Hybrid review, the RAV4 Prime has a great combination of a motor-assisted hybrid engine/transmission combination driving the front wheels and an electric motor for the rear axle.
If you’re delicate on the throttle, you can get far on just battery power, though you can’t get there fast. If you want to merge onto the highway, however, the combined 302 horsepower and smack of torque can propel the heavy crossover to 60 mph in just 5.7 seconds. That’s fast for anything, let alone a crossover.
Is this speed a necessity? Not really, but the way the electric motor makes up for a CVT’s natural tendency towards low-speed/low-torque sluggishness is something I’d pay real money for these days.
Handling was competent and the ride was slightly softer than the Subaru’s, though neither the RAV4 Prime nor the Forester are going to win any awards for dynamic performance. I’m looking for competent and the RAV4 is competent.
HOW THIS ARGUMENT DID (8/10)
Argument #3: The RAV4 Is Way More Efficient Than Our Forester… Especially If You Can Plug It In
This trip centered around a voyage back to my original home, Corpus Christi, Texas. It’s a coastal city with miles of beaches and plenty of bars (people in the area have reported sobriety to be a challenge). What it lacked, surprisingly, was charging infrastructure.
When I picked up the RAV4 I quickly burned through the EV range it had and therefore the car was converted back into more of a traditional hybrid rather quickly. My dumb assumption was that I’d be able to recharge it at my hotel as I do with plug-in vehicles on most of my trips.
Nope. My hotel didn’t have a charger. The hotel next to it didn’t have a charger. A quick look at Google Maps shows the only chargers around were either Tesla Supercharging Stations or a part of a car dealership:
There were two non-dealership ChargePoints and one Blink station in the vicinity, though neither was near the hotel and both were marked as non-functioning. Oops.
When plugged in, the RAV4 Prime gets 42 miles of all-EV range, which is better than most PHEVs for sale. This is thanks to its larger-than-average 18.1 kWh battery pack. Because I can’t plug in at home, my sense is that I’d mostly be driving it around without that much juice (you can use a charging mode to generate power for the battery, but it makes the car less efficient).
In mostly city driving, the Forester returns a mediocre 20 MPG in my experience. The RAV4 Prime, however, gets 94 MPG combined city/highway if you can squeeze all the juice out of the batteries.
Even if I never plugged it in and relied purely on regenerative braking, the RAV4 returned 33.7 MPG in combined driving. That’s better than what I can get out of the Subaru.
The math here starts to get tricky fast. A nicely loaded Corolla Cross would cost me about $33k, assuming I could find a dealer to sell me one at MSRP. The RAV4 Hybrid Woodland Edition (hybrid, not plug-in hybrid) is $37k and returns a combined 37 MPG.
A basic RAV4 Prime costs about $44k, and if I can only rarely plug it in then I’m spending more money for basically comparable (or worse) performance than any other Toyota I’d be interested in if I can’t get charging at my parking spot.
HOW THIS ARGUMENT DID (4/10)
Conclusion: Maybe A Non Plug-In For Me
As a family, we were fans of the RAV4, in spite of some small annoyances. It’s so popular because it’s an extremely livable car in most ways. The RAV4 also looks modern and, compared to previous iterations, almost attractive (ok, the 1st gen is still the best).
It’s the gold standard for compact crossovers and, if I had a way to regularly charge it, the appeal of not needing gas for most of my journies might outweigh some of the cost.
I can’t get over the cost, though. In my situation, I think the RAV4 Woodland Edition is probably in the sweet spot for price, capability, comfort, and longevity.
Please do not by a plug I hybrid if you can’t charge it at home. If you do, you are missing the point entirely. I get really mad when I see PHEV at a public charger. They have no need to be there paying inflated electricity prices for a 50kms of ev driving. Is even more infuriating when you have an ev (given to you by your employer) that you aren’t allowed to charge at home and there’s a friggin 10 year old outlander phev hogging the only charge point so they can get an extra 3kms on their depleted worn out battery
I’m agreed with you that the Prime model would be wasted on you, without a place to charge it. I have mixed feelings about the Rav4, however. First of all, how will you pick out yours in a suburban parking lot? Here in CO, that would be a treasure hunt; same, though, with the Forester.
My family rented a low-trim Rav 4 to travel across southern Indiana from Louisville to see the eclipse. From the driver’s perspective, it was perfectly usable and serviceable for this simple task. But during some back seat time at Interstate speeds, I was shocked by the road noise level. The sound level app on my phone was topping out at 80 Db! My current drive is a Merceds GLK, which is as quiet as a bank vault below 3000 rpm. But I’ve spent equal time in the rear of my daughter’s ’17 Forester, and it wasn’t nearly so obnoxious. Ride before you sign!
Another tip from a dissatisfied Rav4 renter I met: it was very difficult to ijstall kids in their child seats because the rear doors only open out about 45% from the body.
Good on Toyota for flying the righteous hybrid banner, but I’d choose a Ford first. Their hybrid system is similar, and no Toyota could be more reliable than my Ford C-Max, since it’s had no trouble at all. Fords have better handling, in my limited experience. Around a month ago I was seeing heavy incentives on Escape models, with zero % interest and no money down.
Wouldn’t the true Autopian buy neither of the two most popular small SUVs? That’s so mainstream…
I just pulled the trigger on a Rav4 Prime. I have about 600 miles on it. I can conquer on a few of your observations (seat comfort).
I love it. I charge it every night from a 110V outlet in the garage. I have charged once at a charging location in a hotel garage and the benefit there was the parking spot more than the electricity.
It’s a big roomy car. Good for my two kids and car trips.
I would highly recommend the Hybrid if nothing else.
Remember when the RAV4 was small?
I have a 2003 as a spare errands car (helped a friend out after his kid didn’t need it anymore). It’s such a good size, very plucky, and surprisingly decent to toss around.
I’d much rather be in my Volvo in case of an accident, though.
I looked seriously at a RAV4 Hybrid AWD. I liked most everything about it. The only negatives was seat comfort and buzzy engine when you wanted acceleration. I likened the seats to new airliner seats. Reasonably comfortable for short hauls, but thin and flat.
I don’t see you being very happy with a RAV4 if you haven’t liked your Forester. They share similar levels of build quality/ material quality and in my mind have similar strengths/ weaknesses. Plug in powertrain aside, I think you would have felt the same about a new Forester interior & driving dynamics as you did the RAV4.
Matt, you’re not fooling anyone, you want the Maverick Hybrid and it’s rumored to get a Hybrid AWD setup for the 2025MY refresh. I would wait until then or try to get a good deal on a 2024MY FWD with the Hybrid.
The Rav4 is fine, I’ve driven my aunt’s 2021 XLE a few times and it’s ok at most things, but it doesn’t really excel at anything. I feel it would join the “meh” vehicle list 2-3 years into ownership.
Problem is the Maverick AWD Hybrid will probably re-establish the waiting list for orders and dealer shenanigans.
The waiting list, sure, but I had pretty good luck with dealers when ordering. They want those orders, since they help them get extra allocation, so the dealers I spoke to all did MSRP or lower, even if they were marking them up on the lot. If you can wait for a build, you’ll be alright.
Which I think Matt would be willing to do. He’s been on the hunt for over a year, just saying…
Possibly, but not as long of a wait because it’s no longer an entirely new model with new production tooling and such.
My coworker and his wife have a RAV4 Hybrid. It’s fine, I guess. Lacks the charm of the earlier generations (I have a 2003 as a recent acquisition and it’s a good little errand vehicle) and the design is too chunky.
If it were my decision I’d wait for the Mazda CX-50 Hybrid coming later this year using Toyota hybrid tech. Or get a CX-50 Meridian now.
You might consider holding onto the Forester until all the options you like switch to the NACS so you can use those sweet Superchargers.
Is anyone going to be providing adapters? Are there already adapters?
The CRV Hybrid and Rav4 Hybrid are best sellers for a reason.
At least in the CRV’s case it’s a substantially smoother drivetrain too with the new two planetary gearset.
One of my good friends has a new cr-v hybrid, and it is alarmingly loud inside the rear seat area. Like there seems to be zero sound deadening for the rear compartment. Good luck trying to have a conversation between the two rows.
As I posted elsewhere, the back seat of my rental Rav4 also was punishingly loud. I measured peaks of 80 Db in the back seat, almost all of it road noise. Face it, these are cheaply made cars sold at high prices to faithful customers who never demand anything better.
Having driven several of this class SUVs back to back, I don’t understand why anyone goes RAV4 unless they really want the Prime. The refinement levels of the CR-V Hybrid is miles better than the RAV on top of the interior actually being well built and not a plastic tub like the RAV. RAV4 sells because people can trust it, not because it is a nice place to be or does anything well.
I think the RAV4 gets its “plastic tub” characteristic from the outdoor-adventuring cosplay they put it through. The Corolla Cross might be a truer comparison to the CR-V for interior comparison (size differences notwithstanding) as the RAV4 more closely compares to the Bronco Sport and subarus with the directed appeal for outdoorsy types.
That said, I’m wholly underwhelmed with the CR-V interior, especially the 2nd row (at least in the hybrid). I have close friends and have ridden in their new one multiple times, and the amount of noise that penetrates the 2nd row is absurdly bad for a modern car. I have a recently-acquired 2nd-gen RAV4 that is quieter than that thing, even with mild-A/T tires.
Wife is pushing to replace the subaru and we’ve narrowed the choices to crv and rav4. They’re both roughly equal on interior space; imo too small for a big guy. The rav engine is meh, honda seems overall nicer. The thing that keeps me from loving either is the any color choice for the interior as long as it’s black. Only other thing really wrong with either is I don’t fit. Didn’t fit well in the subaru either. Being tall and long legged sux.
CR-V has engine and transmission issues, easy pass.
CX-50 has a tan interior available and is about the same size. Solid drivetrain, too. Just pass on the panoramic roof.
Same big guy fitment issues. Nice otherwise.
Hmmm, why would the Japanese neglect building cars to fit tall folks?
My main ride is an 18 Honda Accord which is perfectly sized for me. When I was shopping I looked at a Malibu, Cadillac ATS, Camry all to small and Hyundai Sonata DSG was crap.
A Forester would be my first recommendation for a tall man’s car. Try a Mercedes, like my GLK.
Current Subaru is an old Tribeca, it’s larger inside than a Forester and is still tight on legroom for me. Subaru’s crap fuel economy has pretty much soured my experience.
I’ve owned a Mercedes a BMW as well as two VW’s. Never ever will I own a German vehicle again.
We purchased a ’24 Rav4 Prime just a couple of months ago and we’re getting 45 miles on the EV mode. We traded in a leased ’21 Rav4 hybrid (not Prime) for the Prime. You caught one of the differences I noticed, the less comfy driver seat in the Prime. Just not as cozy. I have spent an entire day driving each one, and the non-Prime version has comfier seats. Otherwise we really like the Prime version, but we can charge at home.
You feel “meh” about your Forester? Matt, you’ve written multiple hit pieces on it. You don’t feel “meh”, you actively hate the car. Which is fine! But while it’s one thing to have wandering eyes, it’s another thing to skewer it in front of, I’m guessing something like 134 million Autopians? Yeah that number feels about right, or it should be.
Personally, if you’re feeling “meh” but in reality feel deep-seated hatred for the Forester, a RAV4 seems like a marginally better Forester. I mean, it’ll be great for content in 2-3 years when you can write “I want to shoot my boring-ass RAV4 into the sun”, and then we can play this game again. Which… I’m honestly game for. But if you don’t want to do that, just get a van or the Maverick you wanted.
I don’t think the Rav4 is capable of eliciting feelings of hatred.
Just indifference.
FIFY.
There’s something special about having a “boring” appliance vehicle that just works when you go to start it without worrying about what will break next. This was my Toyota vs Ford experiences. I would love a Mav…but only with a (very) extended warranty.
Oh I get that. But a lot of what Matt seems to dislike about the Forester probably won’t be fixed by a RAV4. Yeah some of the weird quality issues will likely disappear. But I just don’t know if ending up with a RAV4 with this amount of thought and hand-wringing is going to be a satisfying conclusion. It’s sort of a “I have some discomfort so I’m going to bombard myself with drugs but unfortunately now I cannot feel anything” sort of solution.
Based on the writing, he seemed to have some actual excitement for the Maverick. Yeah it’s not the perfect vehicle for his use-case, but he’ll figure it out. And the quality issues may come up, but those sorts of things are easier to forgive if you actually love the vehicle.
There’s also the hellish possibility of getting the rare stinker Toyota, which is basically the worst possible outcome.
Since Matt is digging for the Hybrid Maverick I would expect none of the powertrain issues associated with some Ford’s gas vehicles. It’s been almost 3 years since it hit the market and there are no signs pointing it to being a problematic setup.
Ford has built Hybrids for 2 decades with cross-patented tech from Toyota. This is the closest you’ll get to Toyota unibody pickup with a Hybrid until the hypothetic Toyota pickup becomes a reality
As I understand it, Ford and Toyota have the same system layout, each using their own parts.
They do, but they used Toyota’s patents as the foundation so they didn’t try to re-invent the wheel.
There have been no transverse layout Ford Hybrids with unreliable powertrains to date, I used to see them all the time on taxi duty or rideshare with tons of miles in them and a co-worker still owns a 2nd gen Escape Hybrid. That speaks a ton about expected reliability for the Maverick Hybrid
Have had two Rav4 Hybrids as rentals. No extra luggage to carry around. Averaged 38mpg mixed driving. Vehicle was competent. No complaints.
Mazda is launching the CX-50 Hybrid later this year. Im coming up on 2 years of ownership of a 2023 CX-50 and its been a great car. Not too big and not too small, plus it looks good and doesnt drive like a tub of half melted vanilla ice cream like many other compact SUVs on offer.
We’ve had our 2015 CX-5 for ten years now. Bulletproof. I’m excited to see Mazda launch some hybrids but I’d prefer a PHEV. Mazdas drive and feel so much nicer than the competition IMHO.
The only thing I hated about my 2015 Mazda3 was the 6 speed manual. First car I ever owned where I wished I got the auto. Should have got the auto CX-5 vs the manual 3.
What didn’t you like about it? Mazda’s manuals tend to get near-universal praise.
This. I’m very eager to see how those turn out and if Toyota nerfs them a bit to keep from intruding too much upon the RAV4 Hybrid. Also hoping they keep the Meridian version available for the hybrid.
2022 XSE owner with 24k miles checking in. The C pillar (around rear seat belts) and cargo area turn into an awful rattle box. Toyota used all cheapo plastic and didn’t insulate anything. It makes a reasonably nice car feel like a cheap POS. I’ve spent way too much time with foam tape and stick-on felt getting it all settled.
And even then, every time you drive a full EV you’ll feel like you’re missing out. When I borrow a Y in the family then go back to my Prime it feels like a tin can.
It’s objectively one of the most practical do-everything vehicles out there but is so impossibly boring and doesn’t feel very well built IMO with the noises/rattles.
If you get a RAV4 Hybrid, it’s likely best not to get the Woodland Edition because of its higher drag from the wheels/tires and roof racks. The difference is a couple MPG on the EPA cycle, but it is likely much worse than that at higher speeds.
Additionally, I would be surprised if there isn’t a new generation of RAV4 announced within the next year now that the new Camry is out.
So a forester with asteroids innit?
That seems fine, but there’s something soul crushing about “I replaced my Forester with a RAV4.” Like, woohoo?
His soul was already crushed by the Forester ownership
I concur. My Prime is soul-crushingly boring. Wondering eyes toward a full EV are prob going to win at some point.
I’ll take boring and reliable for a utility, family hauler any day. I’m envious of those who can also afford a second, “fun” vehicle but if you’re going to have just 1, make sure it’s reliable.
Yeah, it’s a bit like “I got off Lunesta, and now use ZZZQuil.”
I’d much rather have the Toyota, but it’s not an exciting choice.
Even if you can plugin via 120v, it’s more than enough to charge it up overnight. And unless you get the upgraded onboard charger to 6.6kw, it only charges at 3.3kw on level 2.
Also, use the lease loophole to take advantage of the tax credit, and immediately buy it out…
My family has put about 40k miles on our R4P SE over the last ~3 years…ask me anything!
What’s wrong with artichokes?!?!?!
Alright, now I gotta go back and finish the post.
Now that’s done, I agree with most of the people who are saying check out the Honda. I feel if you’re looking seriously at a Toyota, you have to look at the competing Honda, and vice-versa.
They’re best when part of a dip with spinach, and when you can scarcely tell they’re there aside from flavor?
Tear off the leaves, dip them in melted butter and enjoy! Do the same with the heart (cut off the fuzzy stuff first…)
I love artichokes, but the big ones tend to be hard and flavorless.
I agree with that.
Why not the Outlander PHEV? Proven powertrain from the outgoing model, cheaper than the RAV4 Prime, and while I haven’t experienced the interior, I can say I hate the current RAV4 interior so it couldn’t be any worse than that.
I have experienced the interior and it’s not great. It looks fairly nice, but it has some really uncomfortable seats. Maybe if you go up to the version with the massaging seat it’s better, though. I have not been in that one.
I’m cross shopping the outlander and prime and the warranty for the Mitsubishi just blows Toyota out of the water. I don’t care how good a vehicle is if the warranty only makes it good to 80 or 100,000klms (Canada). Manufacturer warranties simply need to be better.
The majority of new cars in Australia are at least 5years and unlimited kms warranty. Kia are 7 years and some brands give more on specific models, Mitsubishi is 10years 200,000kms if you service through their dealers. It’s usually the dearer brands that give limited kms warranty. Tesla of course being one 4yrs, unlimited for Model 3; 80,000 for Y, exactly why?
Thats much better than here in Canada, and more in line with what I would expect.
I’ve said this before when I worked there, Australia is just a better Canada.
Mitsubishi – like Kia and Hyundai – rely on those warranties to get folks to think the cars will hold up for that amount of time. However the first owners of those brands rarely keep them anywhere near that long, and the 10-year/100k-mile coverage is only for the first owner.
Plus trying to do warranty claims will vary widely by dealership, plus there’s the downtime waiting for repairs, parts, etc., and they don’t necessarily provide alternate transportation for that downtime.
I hear ya, but also if a manufacturer like Toyota, for example, is so confident in their vehicles, why don’t they offer a similar warranty? Especially given the price.
I work in the courts and those warranties, that legally binding document on paper, is worth its weight in gold when/if something goes wrong. I just think Toyota needs to do better when it comes to warranty.
Cost control and lawyers, I expect. Offering such a long warranty is a gamble that the initial purchaser will keep the vehicle that long, and also be bothered to bring it into a dealership for a claim, and that it’ll be approved.
Take Rolls-Royce for example: their vehicles are handmade to some of the highest degrees mankind has yet devised, but they only offer 4-year warranties (in the US anyway, I can’t speak for other countries), the same as pretty much every other European brand.
The longest warranty I know of (by distance) for a consumer vehicle is Rivian’s warranty on their EV components on Quad-Motor R1S & R1T, for which they offer up to 8 years or 175K miles, whichever comes first.
Mitsubishi dealers – those that are left – generally don’t have the best rep. My nearest major metropolitan area has had three different Mitsubishi franchises in the last decade or so, one of which barely lasted a year, if that.
They seem like strong value on paper, and with Nissan contributing now with partial ownership there seems to be a bit more confidence and quality in the models, but that also means you’re going UP to nissan levels which is, uh, not the greatest thing in the world.
Ya I’m not the biggest fan of Nissan from past experiences. But when/if I buy a new hybrid vehicle, I want a warranty that will give me piece of mind since I keep my vehicles ’til death do us part.
Yeah that’s why I specified the PHEV since the entire powertrain is truly Mitsubishi—the chassis might be Nissan, but unlike the petrol models the PHEV’s ICE powerplant is the 4B12 (first seen in ’07) so at least that’s mostly tried and true. Also my perception is perhaps skewed because Quebedeaux Mitsubishi here in Tucson is a pretty large franchise that’s been around for decades