Can you guess which combustion-powered car enjoyed the greatest model loyalty as of last year? You might expect it to be something archetypal with a publicly passionate base, like a Corvette, a 911, or a G-Class. It’s actually the Lincoln Nautilus, with model loyalty of 46.7 percent, according to the analysts at S&P Global Mobility.
Dig deeper, and that statistic gets even more interesting. Not only is the Nautilus one of the few Chinese-built cars you can buy in America, it also faces some stiff competition, including the ever-popular Lexus RX. So why do 46.7 percent of owners love their Nautilus so much that when they want to replace it, they’ll just buy another one? I grabbed the keys to a Nautilus for a week to find out.
[Full disclosure: Lincoln Canada let me borrow this Nautilus for a week so long as I kept the shiny side up, returned it with a full tank of premium fuel, and reviewed it.]
The Basics
Engine: Two-liter twin-cam turbocharged inline-four.
Transmission: Eight-speed torque converter automatic.
Drivetrain: Full-time all-wheel-drive.
Output: 250 horsepower at 5,500 rpm, 280 lb.-ft. at 3,000 rpm.
Fuel economy: 21 MPG city, 29 MPG highway, 24 MPG combined (11.2 L/100km city, 8.1 L/100km highway, 9.8 L/100km combined)
Base price: $55,535 including freight ($63,045 Canadian)
As-tested price: $70,730 including freight ($80,195 Canadian)
Why Does It Exist?
While mainstream two-row midsize crossovers are dwindling in volume, the luxury two-row midsize utility vehicle market is as strong as ever, and packed with serious contenders. Think Lexus RX, BMW X5, Mercedes-Benz GLE, Genesis GV80, the list goes on. With that in mind, it’s only sensible for Lincoln to offer something between the compact Corsair and three-row Aviator, and the Nautilus fills that Goldilocks spot.
How Does It Look?
Talk about a glow-up. While the previous generation Lincoln Nautilus was a reskinned Ford Edge, the current one is something different. Crisp lines, a floating roof, and loads of intricate detailing like subtly masked frit in the quarter windows all give off a handsome vibe while rejecting the abhorrent puritanism of minimalism. It’s not too fussy, it’s not too plain, this crossover is, visually, just right. Oh, and even though the exterior door handles are electronic, there’s still a key hole in the driver’s door in case of emergency.
What About The Interior?
Slide into the Lincoln Nautilus, and the first thing you’ll notice won’t be the weirdly oblong steering wheel swaddled in exceptionally smooth hide. Instead, it’ll be the screen setup, because it’s a bit of a size queen. Two ultrawide displays under a single pane of glass right at the base of the windshield offer 48 inches of real estate with only the meanest of black strips between them, while an 11.1-inch touchscreen sits closer to the occupants. It sounds like a lot, but because the really big display arrangement is so far away, you’re left with space to admire how much thought and money’s gone into this cabin.
Almost every panel and accent you can see and touch is either metallic, glass, upholstered, or soft touch, from the jewel-cut volume knob to the cold aluminum speaker grilles to the stitched leading edge of the dashboard. There’s a little bit of shiny black plastic used to flow the screens into the doors and add ambient lighting, but otherwise, the cabin of the Nautilus is tasteful, refined, decidedly upscale, and incredibly well-assembled. My test car had seen roughly a year of press car miles, which are arguably even harder than rental car miles, and it’s still snare drum-taut. As for comfort, available 24-way front seats are just about perfect once you adjust all the motors and air bladders, there’s absolutely loads of space for all occupants, and the steering column has enough rake and reach adjustment for almost all statures.
How Does It Drive?
It’s easy to bag on about how everything seems to now offer a two-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine, but even though the market’s mostly converged on a familiar formula, tuning matters. Even though Lincoln’s two-liter is smaller and less potent than the 2.4-liter turbocharged four-banger in the Lexus RX 350, Lincoln’s done a better job of capturing a smoother, more eager character. The Nautilus wants to rev, and the eight-speed automatic’s dialled in just right for the application. There’s even a refreshing omission of paddle shifters, an admission that they’re bollocks in a midsize luxury crossover. The owner of this sort of vehicle won’t be flicking through the ratios; their irresponsible teenage son will, and thwarting teenage mayhem for the benefit of ergonomics seems like the right move. Admittedly, you can tell that this is essentially the same powertrain you can get in a Ford Maverick, but since it’s a pleasant one, I doubt most customers will notice.
Speaking of comfort, let’s talk about the ride quality of the Lincoln Nautilus. It doesn’t float like a Town Car—the damping’s much too good for that—but it wafts like a luxury car of old, from a time when luxury meant comfort over everything. Potholes and expansion joints evaporate as this midsize crossover glides like Fred Astaire over positively pockmarked pavement. The tradeoff is that the Nautilus has a bit of body roll and feels a bit loosey-goosey if you’re booking it like the library closes in 20 minutes and you don’t want to pay late fees. The brake pedal’s also on the soft side, and there’s not an enormous amount of confidence on tap if you need to take evasive action at freeway speeds, even though the steering is weirdly good at communicating changes in road camber. The overall result is a plush cruiser with marshmallow creme vibes, and for luxury crossover shoppers, that’s pretty much perfect 90 percent of the time.
Does It Have The Electronic Crap I Want?
As you’d expect, the Lincoln Nautilus offers pretty much all the toys you could want, but we first need to talk about the screen setup. The black levels and fluidity are great, but I’d like a bit more customization than just the song playing, the weather, and a few trip computer screens. However, always having a map on display close to your line of sight is hugely beneficial, and Lincoln’s managed to implement this massive display array without making it distracting. Plus, the black levels are so good that the panoramic screen offers a better overall experience than a HUD that doesn’t wash out through polarized lenses. Well done.
Beyond the screens, the array of available gadgets is extensive, from powerful massaging seats to a multi-stage heated steering wheel to wireless Android Auto and Apple CarPlay to a solid 360-degree camera system. My test car also came equipped with the 28-speaker Revel Ultima 3D audio system, a Harman International setup with remarkable power and clarity, so long as you keep some of the wilder sound processing turned off. It’s easily one of the best audio systems in the segment, outshining most rivals at modest listening volumes.
Of course, the other big toy on hand is BlueCruise, Lincoln’s hands-free Level 2 highway driving assistance system. It’s genuinely getting better all the time, to the point where I used it for the rush hour highway slog back to the press office and felt weirdly calm about the whole thing. Considering Lincoln throws in four years of it, which should be enough to cover most leases, it’s definitely a highlight that could tip the scale in favor of the Nautilus on its own.
Three Things To Know About The Lincoln Nautilus
- The 24-way massaging seats are absolutely worth the money.
- It’s one of the few luxury crossovers that doesn’t require premium gas.
- That wacky infotainment setup will make you realize screens are better than a HUD.
Does The Lincoln Nautilus Fulfil Its Purpose?
The Lincoln Nautilus fulfils its purpose by doing luxury better than a Lexus RX 350, or even a low-spec Mercedes-Benz GLE 350. The 24-way massaging seats are the tits, the Revel system bumps, I’ve driven six-figure cars with worse ride quality and build quality, and Lincoln’s happy medium crossover has a luxury-first character that’s really all its own in this segment. Nobody’s doing sheer singular cushiness like this in the $60,000 to $70,000 price bracket, and the people are getting tired of luxury cars that don’t waft. However, at just over $70,000 as-tested, it’s going up against some stiff competition with less overall ease but greater bandwidth.
You can tell the Genesis GV80 rides on far more premium bones as it drives with greater sophistication, and that Korean two-row is right in the same price bracket as the Lincoln and has a cabin that truly measures up. At the same time, don’t discount the Volvo XC90. Sure, it might be a decade old, but it has even better seats, a superlative available Bowers & Wilkins sound system, and is made of equally nice stuff.
What’s The Punctum Of The Lincoln Nautilus?
Lincoln’s built a better Lexus RX.
Top graphic image: Thomas Hundal
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The interiors are stunning, especially the Black Labels. If you want an interior that looks like a whorehouse, get the Genesis, they are simply revolting.
American luxury from Chinese Lincoln. Maybe this one will even get passenger plates instead of taxi
It’s not a cringey experience going to the dealer! That’s really why the Lexus will always beat the Lincoln.
It’s easy for the RX to win against the Lincoln from a consumer perspective: it’s a lower price with the highest resale, it has a bigger engine, it is made in Canada or Japan, and the dealer experience versus a Ford-Lincoln store…
But at the same time, reading this review and remembering what that motor is like in a Bronco Sport I can see how it would actually be great in an application like this. A fun-to-drive engine is likely lost on 95% of buyers in this segment. I also do not doubt that the suspension is superior as Lexus’ latest offerings seemingly eschew the cushiness that used to be in everything from the LX 570 to the IS 350. Now even the RX is less adept at smoothing out broken pavement—even the new GX 550 is not as smooth as the GX it replaced.
…but people are conservative, and so they likely won’t even look at the Lincoln. They will only look at the RX, GLE, X5 and the XC90… Which, yes I know these aren’t all exact match-ups, but these are the cars actually being cross shopped. RX people don’t look at X3, they look at X5.
Lincoln dealers are still filled with 2024 inventory… and 2023 inventory… to the point that they still show old model years on their website.
The front of it looks way better than the Lexus, maybe that’s why?
I had one of these for a day as a ourtesy vehicle on another Lincoln I own (’23 Navigator). It is a nice car, for the price.
But the designers/engineers of those screens said “let’s make as big of a screen as we can”. Hold my beer. And then done.
They then forgot to make any content for the screens. There are 3 customizable 6″ sections. Your choices are 1) a simple clock (way too big), the tire PSI (also way too big). Weather (arguably ok). And trip computers.
I would have thought content would have driven the bigger screens, but no, it was the bigger screens leading the way.
And you know the worst part, even though this car has over the air upgrades, I guarantee it won’t see anything cool like sound information, car play projection, movies or anything else useful.
“24-way massaging seats“
Are there 24 names to go with them?
Like:
Caress
Jostle
Tickle
Canadian
Poke
Slap
Deep tissue
Pummel
Flay
And another 15?
Never-never chairs. As in – you can never find the setting that’s actually comfortable.
lol. There’s about 7 different massaging. The 24 way is the # of buttons to control the seats themselves (and they come in packs of 4. For example, 4 of them are the headrest going up/down, out and in.) Another 4 do the seat cushion extensions. (Left thigh in/out, Right thigh in/out).
Magic fingers should be enough for anyone, although it’s remarkably the same as a universal joint that has lost the roller bearings.
I literally was lol’ing as I scrolled down and then you ran out of adjectives. I don’t blame you and I’m not mad. Just amused. There are two reasons I come to this site. Education and amusement. You have provided both and I thank you.
In retrospect, I missed the obvious Happy Ending, but you are welcome.
Another dig at the HUD systems? No matter how many screens, it doesn’t replace a heads up display.
The Nautilus, with all that screen, and a HUD, would not be worse, it would be better.
Try driving this thing, you won’t miss a HUD at all. A HUD requires a the projection unit along with windshield glass that is more expensive because it has to be coated to reflect the projection. It’s not a free thing.
The windshield in my car reflects the top of the dashboard just fine, more than fine, it’s awful.
There are special expensive coatings to make glass *less* reflective,
A display that controls the background rather than relying on whatever is outside is better. The only time that isn’t true is if they are implementing a high-end AR setup.
My only question about the displays is, can you drive the thing with the displays turned off? I don’t desire more data, just visibility and scenery.
So do you still have a TDI in the PNW? I put a lot of miles on a 2001 Jetta TDI 5M around Seattle and Tacoma back in the day. I was still on the original clutch when I sold it in Texas.
Further down
OK, so which is it? Did you try it with regular? As noted by another poster, it probably doesn’t fare as well with regular.
I’ve tried this powertrain before with regular and it was fine. There’s a little more urgency with premium when you’re really pressing on, but around town, most drivers won’t notice a difference in any area other than their wallet.
It’s been a while, but I always put mid-grade in my ex-wife’s BMW X5, the labels of which clamored for premium, and I never heard a knock or ping (same thing) and she never noticed any sluggishness. I probably could have done 87 Octane and it would have adjusted, but it was her car, and I didn’t want to take that chance.
Can confirm with my turbo Mazda’s that I have owned. While able to run on regular, they get better MPG and are smoother with premium. Plus the extra little bump is power is always appreciated
Had a turbo Volvo that was allegedly a Mazda in disguise and the parts were interchangeable. Ran a bit better on premium with better tip in and all. If you fill an empty tank with regular, it would ping a little bit the first time you floored the gas pedal then it would return itself and poof, it was tuned for regular. I never got around to timing 0-60 on premium vs regular, but seat of the manta felt like a second maybe. It was mostly the initial throttle response that you noticed.
What Volvo is that?
Definitely agree with you on the initial tip in. I am not one that generally beats on my cars but will lay into them a bit from time to time. Butt dyne would say down low is where I would notice it most. 10-15 hp difference isn’t going to set the world on fire by any means
Had one of these as a rental last year, it was not bad at all. Materials nice, it was a base reserve but even with that trim it was a pretty darn nice place to be. Non revel stereo was just ok, I’m sure the revel (having had 17 MKZ with it) would have been ace. I still like the handiness of the paid for Ridgeline but this was compelling. I have a fast fun weekend car (Camaro ZL1) and for schlepping to and from work or just around town, I really do not care about speed or performance. Only thing I wasn’t a fan of was weird steering wheel and the screenfest. A CPO off lease or a year or so old might be a really compelling buy in the future. I wonder how they hold up long term?
Had no rattles, fit issues, warning lights, etc. this was a rental car at Miami airport with about 11,000mi on it – likely abused rental miles at that. Clean but you could tell by the tires, people drove it hard… Random rant, FFS people don’t smoke weed in rental cars. It was faint and cleaners covered it up, but parked in the Florida sun it kinda came back.
I actually think these are a home run from an exterior design standpoint. They genuinely look very elegant and unique without being overdone. Whenever I’m in the car with someone who isn’t an enthusiast and we come across one they almost always ask “Nsane you know cars, what is THAT?!?!” I think that’s a good sign to be honest.
Apparently the interior materials are top notch as well, and I appreciate that there are still some manufacturers keeping old school luxury alive. Not everything needs to be engineered to set lap records on the Nurburgring. As someone who has to sit through some of the worst traffic in country with regularity I really am starting to get the appeal of just sitting in silent comfort through it.
They even offer a hybrid! Really my only hang up with these is the tech overload. Even in this day and age I don’t want to be surrounded by screens 24/7/365 and these strike me as being there for the sake of being there and not much else. You can fit everything the mega screen is showing you here in a bog standard digital gauge cluster.
Could I get used to it? I don’t know. I’m not the target market for these anyway and will likely never be in one unless one pulls up as a ride share. But I still think overall this is a job well done by Lincoln. The old school luxury market is underserved at the moment, especially with Lexus going in odd directions with some of their newer products. It’s one of the reasons Genesis is doing well.
That being said if you want one lease it or buy used because they do depreciate. Once these start showing up off leases in a year or two in the 40s they’re going to be pretty intriguing.
You actually got me thinking a bit about this, I was looking on autotrader and found some premier (base) and a handful of reserves in the low to mid 40s on Autotrader, 2024s. Various miles, but most had maybe 10-20k on them, nothing too bad.
Finally, a car that really earns the name of my favorite seashell.
My wife was really interested in one of these for her next car until we went out to drive a few cars she was looking at. After the experience at Lexus, we headed to Lincoln. The dealer experience pushed her to pass on it without even driving the car. We ended up with a Q5, which was the next stop. Sewell’s experience was on par with Lexus, and they had the green one she wanted on the lot.
It doesn’t need premium gas, but if it’s anything like my maverick it might have a barely perceptible yet annoying extra vibration in a certain rev range when running regular. Most people won’t notice or care though.
I like Lincoln is going for comfort. Fast Ring times does not mean luxury.
The inside of a Lincoln is a really nice place to be.
Muuuuch nicer looking than the Lexus Predator abomination. It’s a shame the hybrid only ekes out 30 mpg.
It’s compelling, but I’d still go for the GV80 or XC90.
I like it, but what is its small-overlap frigate crash rating? What about results vs. vicious cachalots? Asking for an ex-East India Trading Company friend.
+1 for cachalots.
I hope this becomes a trend. I have no idea why people buy S/CUVs and put up with a garbage ride worse than sports cars. A luxury product should feel like it.
“Among individual brands, Tesla continues its run as the leader in brand loyalty with a rate of 67.8% for the first half of 2024. While all Tesla models retain more than 60% of their previous owners, the Model 3 remains the leader in the brand’s lineup with a loyalty rate of 72.1%.”
leaving a little kryptonite for the kommentariat.
You’re giving us information that’s literally a year old? I wonder if anything’s happened in the last year to change that.
Also, I see no relevance to this piece?
lol cope
I have a 2017 MKX, and it’s the nicest car I’ve ever owned. Based on my experience with the MKX, I’d by another one again.
I know a couple of MKX owners and they really like them (both bought them slightly used after learning of their existence on the dealer lot). It’s kind of a shame not many people know about the current Lincoln crossovers, but maybe I’m not plugged into enough algorithms to receive modern marketing 🙂
The crossover segments are so overcrowded, it’s just a shame to see good cars that might end up on the chopping block.
I didn’t set out intending to buy it, but it was the nicest used vehicle in my price, mileage, and size range. I think the dealer had marked it down because it wasn’t selling, probably because Lincoln marketing wasn’t very good and all their MKwhatever names made no sense.
Psst… I see rich people
Hey, mustard on the seat, yo!
Wipes right up, got synthetic leather seats, bro.
Left turn, signal with my amberlamps, and make my turn, so
Nail throttle to the stop, engine makes a lotta noise, though
What’s up with these panorama-ass dash showin’ me…somethin’?
The industry has changed us, to the mall with my mama
How many apps we really got? I mean it’s too many apps, son!
I’m finna RTFM, but printed’s not an option!
Cool my ass and warm the wheel, the combo just shockin’
The Nautilus, the Natilus, the Nautilus….
/zero apologies to that hack
Lincoln has really been hitting the handsome mark with their cars lately. They look refined, not just a nose job on their Ford roots, and I believe that they will age very well going forward.
My bosses wife recently got a Corsair plug in hybrid and they are thrilled with it. Although coming from a Grand Caravan that served family duty for 10+ years almost anything would be an upgrade.
Bold move to double down on one of the least popular takes in the history of the site. 😛
I mean, I imagine most of us don’t have a lot of experience with any separated screen(s) in our vehicle that is/are A) large, B) not a touchscreen, and C) not the instrument cluster. So I think there’s pros and cons to make them more measured than simply “oh, here’s a huge screen and the entire thing is a touchscreen.”
Besides, it looks like they still kept a few crucial buttons. That’s something.
Edit: either way, I don’t have personal experience with HUDs, but if they have a problem with polarized lenses, yeah, that’s a major issue.
I watched Tiff Needell’s review of the M5 E60 that was linked in yesterday’s M5 wagon review, and he said HUDs “will be a must have for all the cars of the future.” Made me wonder what happened to that alternative universe.
$130K for a loaded Navigator starts to look downright reasonable when a Chinese-built 2.0T mobile is $70K.
The uncalled for anti-Chinese sentiment really is unusual and unwelcome.
A lot of people’s perceptions of anything Chinese in manufacture is permanently stuck in 1998 and nothing will ever shift it, I’m afraid.
My disappointment in this particular case is not with Chinese people, or even the CCP, but with Ford.
And what, exactly, about Ford?
For outsourcing production to a hostile country that uses slave labor and *generally* builds to a lower quality, then selling it for the same price as a US or Western built competitor.
It’s rational for all parties, but that doesn’t mean I need to like it.
yeah, especially when there’s perfectly good slave labor right here!
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-immigration-hyundai/
The measure of a government isn’t what bad actors do under its watch, but how it responds to them.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-labor-department-sues-hyundai-over-us-child-labor-court-filing-2024-05-30/
https://www.voanews.com/a/fact-check-china-denies-forced-labor-in-xinjiang-un-reports-otherwise/6743460.html
That’s our former government. I don’t have confidence that our current regime would pursue any action against that type of infraction.
The U.S. has a higher percentage of its population in prison than any other country, by far, and they are all legally allowed to be used as slaves. We have a government that has deputized hordes of masked white supremacists to round up people they don’t like and imprison and deport/traffic them without any legal oversight. The current U.S. government is worse than the current Chinese government, and the country is inches away from a civil war.
Thank you for the connection of prisoners to slave labor. Easy to forget. Probably why they do it. Regarding quality concerns: old enough here to remember that we felt the same about Japanese goods. How did that work out? Looks at driveway. Sees a Honda. A Lexus. A Toyota an old VW Cabriolet and a Hyundai hybrid. There’s a Honda 90 Trail bike in the shed next to a Honda lawn mower. But hey the snowblower is Murican. Or is it? Deep dive into Toro coming up next
Yeah, there is more desire in the U.S. to assume that the U.S. is always the good guy than in just about any other country. So much so, people completely ignore the massive elephant that isn’t just in the room, it is running around, stepping on people.
Calling China a “hostile country” when living in the United States is pretty funny, gotta say. The lower quality thing is also completely meaningless when Ford issues more recalls than any other make, while making the most vehicles in the US.
It’s because I live here that I call China a “hostile” country. Whether we like it or not, their government wishes us ill.
A lot of people here in this thread seemingly drawing no distinction between us and them, which I cannot disagree with strongly enough.
As for quality, my experience with low-quality cheaply built Chinese products didn’t end in 1998. Maybe it did for others, in which case I’d encourage them to show their support of Chinese manufacturing by buying a Nautilus.
man, Americans are really obsessed with this idea that the rest of the world wants to treat them the same way that they want to treat the rest of the world… what if I told you that’s not how normal people think?
Your honestly considered opinion is that the Chinese government is a friendly peer state?
That their good relations with Russia, Iran, North Korea etc have no impact on how we should see them?
That they don’t have designs on Taiwan? A US ally and vitally important trading partner?
I wouldn’t have supported outsourcing auto production to the Soviet Union in 1960. I wouldn’t support outsourcing production to Russia or Iran now. I won’t apologize for sincerely believing that there are countries in the world that are our enemies.
God if that isn’t the most telling phrase possible.
I respect your opinion enough to ask, in all sincerity, you believe there’s no difference between the CCP and the US government? That life there, under that system, would be preferable to life here?
No matter what your opinion of the current administration is, I can’t imagine a serious person taking that position.
What they are, right this minute, is approximately the worst case scenario for what this administration *could* potentially become.
You’re trying to argue an unwinnable point here on this board.
I’m not gonna say that doing biz with China is the worst thing, because the system is already in place, and changing that would be neigh impossible, and pretty self-destructive to the US at this point. However, I see your stance and can empathize and agree to a (mostly) point.
Members of my family have married into families, and have had kids, with Chinese/Hong Kong/Singapore backgrounds. Once you talk to the siblings/parents/cousins of that side of the family, it becomes clear that it’s not as simple as “China wishes us harm”.
It may be true, to an extent, that governmental policies are generally hostile, but on a human level it is way more nuanced than that, in my opinion. I’m just not sure it’s a “Yes or No” topic. Not in 2025, anyway.
Just sayin’.
Have never meant to imply anything different than this.
I wish nothing but the best for the Chinese citizens, and I hope I live to see them get the government that they deserve.
In that case, I think that the “radicals” (lol) on here would be more receptive to your opinion on this, if you communicated it more eloquently.
In all honesty, it has always come off as pretty standoffish when it comes to China. You do you and all that, but that’s how I’ve always read it. Like I said before, I see your point, but I also see how some people on here would get into a huff about it.
Anyway, I gotta go to work and get rich retired people drunk while watching a Florida sunset, lol. Hope you have a great weekend as well! 🙂
You’re sounding downright leftist in some of these comments my friend 😉
Haha!
Yeah, I’m none of any of it. Despite the opinions of those that have called me a “Trump bootlicking, Nazi Fascist” in some bizarre attempt to insult a character they have created in their minds, that doesn’t exist, I’m none of that.
Just a normal dude who has been around the world and been lucky enough to do so. I’m also lucky enough to develop my own opinions on things, rather than parrot some trendy “phrase of the week” crap, or cut-and-paste the same tired bullshit, year after year.
Either way, I gotta go. Have a great weekend as well 🙂
Likewise, pour em stiff for those retirees
And the reason China is where it is right now? American an European manufacturing moving there en masse due to said cheap/slave labor. Complete lack of environmental concerns and the complete giveaway of manufacturing processes to get said cheap labor. We have met the enemy and he is us
Thats the thing, i think the US Government is worse.
We have a presidential administration that is encouraging ICE thugs to kidnap people off the street based on racial profiling, and doing all it can to remove any requirement that they be given a chance to challenge their detention. We have deported innocent people to countries they have never lived in, that are currently in a state of famine or war. We are paying El Salvador to hold people that have never been accused of any crimes in prison for life. Journalists have been openly shot at or arrested by US police. We are building an outdoor interment camp in Florida that will be surrounded by alligators – and the GOP is treating it as a source of pride.
Perhaps we should deal with our own rapidly escalating fascist authoritarianism before demonizing China.
Is China hostile tho? Compared to whom?
China is not dropping bombs. China is not abandoning allies. China is building bridges and hospitals.
China supports it’s industries far better than the US ever did.
Yes – Chinese companies abuse their workers. So do US companies – leading by example.
China is better at Capitalism than the US ever was.
And while China is Authoritarian – So is the US these days.
But China also has some of the best mass transit in the world.
China sees health care as a right for all citizens.
China knows how to build things that the US can only dream of anymore.
Chinese leadership is simply honest about who they are. They don’t resort to the threat of bombs and trade wars to influence other countries – and are able to plan beyond the next news cycle.
If Ford builds cars in China – it’s Ford’s fault, not the Chinese.
It’s almost quitting time on Friday so this is going to be my last comment here today, but I’m just going to say that it’s both profoundly sad how many seem to have just given up on the country they live in, and a profound failure of imagination to not truly consider what a world dominated by China would mean for vulnerable countries and people.
I believe in America, I believe that despite our missteps through the years that we have a track record over centuries that is better than almost any major power in the history of the world, and no matter who the president is I’m going to be proud to live here, to leave political fights at the water’s edge, and to advocate for a world where we have power and influence rather than those who don’t share our values.
That’s it.
“I’m just going to say that it’s both profoundly sad how many seem to have just given up on the country they live in, and a profound failure of imagination to not truly consider what a world dominated by China would mean for vulnerable countries and people”
Fewer bombs dropped, probably. Fewer invasions. Maybe fewer puppet dictators. Most certainly China will employ fewer actual Nazi or Japanese war criminals to torture and murder vulnerable people to protect its interests. And maybe less sponsorship of fanatical religious terrorists in those vulnerable countries.
I find it profoundly sad that some folks refuse to acknowledge that the US is not the paradise people pretend it is or was.
Where’s our high-speed rail? (We have none)
Where’s our universal healthcare? (Only for Congress and Presidents)
Where’s our standard maternity leave? (its 98 days in China)
Where’s our reasonably-priced electric cars?
I could go on…
“Where’s our high-speed rail? (We have none)
Where’s our universal healthcare? (Only for Congress and Presidents)
Where’s our standard maternity leave? (its 98 days in China)
Where’s our reasonably-priced electric cars?”
Right here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States
Those billion dollar stealth bombers don’t pay for themselves!
As to maternity care a lot of Chinese women never use it:
https://jabberwocking.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/blog_china_fertility_rate.jpg
I’m probably pretty far from v10 in terms of politics, but as usual he’s making solid points that are not being understood despite being very clear. There’s both straw men and whataboutism in the replies, and unwarranted vitriol towards him. Not that he needs to be defended–he’s eloquent and sticks to his guns.
It shouldn’t be controversial that China is an enemy state, and that it condones or even encourages slave labour, in a particular vile way wrt the Uyghurs, for example. Noting that fact has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact the US and recent administrations in particular are also terrible in many ways, as listed above. Both those things can be true at the same time.
Too true.
Both those things are true at the same time. Problem is how easy it is to use China (or any other country for that matter) as a scapegoat for not looking at our own. The news flash has to with the propaganda of American exceptionalism. We are an ok country. Some of us attempt to make it better. But for efs sake there is nothing exceptional about stealing the place from the indigenous people. Or enslaving millions of people of color. But I digress let’s get back to cars. WTF can’t I have the Skoda/Citroen/Renault/MG/ I want. After all Freedum right?
Skoda and Citroen need to get their butts over here.
“It shouldn’t be controversial that China is an enemy state, and that it condones or even encourages slave labour, in a particular vile way wrt the Uyghurs, for example.”
They are also our third biggest trading partner after China and Mexico so the biggest trading partner with whom we do not share a border. That makes them more of a frenemy state.
As far as slavery goes yes they have more slaves than we do, both absolute and per capita. But our hands aren’t exactly clean on that matter. We are still in the top 10 of slave holding nations:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-that-still-have-slavery
Note that China is not #1, India is. They have twice as many slaves as China. While I’m sure life as an Uyghur in China is rough I think being an “Untouchable” in India is a lot worse. So where’s the outrage for India?
High speed rail and cheap electric cars are the measure of a country’s worth?
For gods sake try going to China and criticizing their government in even the mild way I’m doing here. Let alone the way many of you criticize our government, safe behind our freedom of speech.
If basic freedoms like that mean so little to you against nonsense like some faster train service, it’s no wonder you prefer China’s system.
I have never and will never say that our country is perfect or a paradise. It has often failed to live up to the ideals it professes to. That does not mean it isn’t also responsible for more human flourishing, more freedom, more prosperity and security than any society in the history of the world. Too many people have been surrounded by those advantages for so long they seem to take them all for granted.
“…safe behind our freedom of speech.”
Which is going away – Rapidly.
Tourists are already being sent away because of memes on their (Chinese made) phones.
And SCOTUS just told us “This administration can do no wrong in the eyes of the courts”
I’m not into resting on the laurels of yesteryear – I’m into who is leading Today and Tomorrow. The US is lagging on so many levels, and getting worse.
My family and I didn’t do our Military service for this.
So yeah – given the terrible, no good, very bad choice of Authoritarian vs Authoritarian – I’d take the one with the modern amenities.