One of the more amusing things I heard this week was from Anders Bell, the current head of engineering and technology at Volvo and former Tesla engineer, who described one of the new fast charging issues as “Hot Dog Anxiety.” This is a peculiar and also very European way to describe a very real phenomenon. Does Bojangles offer a solution?
I couldn’t possibly lead with Stellantis today because we had a lot of it yesterday, and it’s worth talking about why and what actually happened in this Morning Dump. There’s also some weirdness between North Carolina and Vietnamese automaker VinFast, which doesn’t seem to be particularly expedient in building a plant there.
And, finally, motorsports says goodbye to an absolute legend.
Charging Is Getting Faster, But Not Necessarily Cheaper
Shout out to TheSpaceCadet in our Discord for pointing out that fried chicken and breakfast joint Bojangles is joining other food purveyors in offering fast charging. The first one will be in my ancestral home of Savannah, Georgia. That’s fun. I like that. It did remind me of something that Volvo’s Anders Bell said when we chatted about the new Volvo EX60 earlier this week.
He said that people at the company were “continuously” having a debate over battery technology. After the failure of European battery startup Northvolt, he says they’ve become “cell omnivores” and will have a vertically integrated approach to battery manufacturing, but that the contents of the cell will just come from wherever makes the most sense. This is a strange quirk of the rollback of the Inflation Reduction Act. There’s less of a penalty for having a pack with Chinese-provided materials because there’s no tax credit to be excluded from (although it sounds like American EVs will be getting South Korean cells).
One penalty that isn’t going away, though, is what Bell called “Hog Dog Anxiety.”
“Hot Dog Anxiety is: You go in and buy your hot dog, and you’ve just been charged $25 [for fast charging] and it’s become an expensive hot dog,” Bell explained.
It’s a well understood fact that home charging is dramatically cheaper and more efficient than fast charging. There are many reasons for this, including the equipment cost of a Level 3 charging cabinet versus a Level 2 home plug. There’s also a lot of supply and demand here, as you’re probably charging your car at home overnight, when electricity is cheaper, versus in the middle of the day for fast charging on a road trip, when it tends to be more expensive.
Electricity costs have risen rapidly as demand on the grid has increased (and is projected to increase because of data centers), and the current administration has both increased the cost of energy through stoking a conflict in the Middle East and by actively discouraging sustainable sources. Right now the average electricity cost in kWh is about $0.194 per kWh, way up from $0.134 in 2020.
If you used a standard home charger on a 2022 Tesla Model Y Standard Range AWD to go from 20-80%, that’s roughly $8.18 for 159 miles of range. Not bad. That’s much cheaper than the average cost of 159 miles of range for a 30 MPG vehicle ($4.56 *5.3 gallons = $24.17). Even with gas prices at terrible highs, fast charging is expensive. At the Supercharger near me, in the middle of the day, it’s about $0.50 per kWh (cheaper at night). That same 153 miles takes about 19 minutes on a V2 Supercharger, which is pretty good, and it cost me about $21.53.
Right now, that’s a little cheaper than gas! But if/when gas prices come down, the math gets a little harder. There’s been so much talk about super fast charging–and it’s cool that even the cheapest P6 Electric EX60 can go from 10-90% in 16 minutes on a 350 kWh chager–I think the price gets overlooked.
This still means that buying an electric car isn’t necessarily cheaper if you can’t charge at home or work. When I’m on road trips in EVs I don’t know if I feel super worried about this, but if I normally charged at home it would suck to plug in for a top off, linger at the Sheetz as I decide whether I want a wrapz or a meltz, and then pay an extra $20 to charge.
[Ed Note: Charging big EVs on Superchargers can indeed be more expensive than driving even gas guzzlers. -DT].
Stellantis, Wow, Ok
Here’s what happened yesterday. I saw that Stellantis was doing its Investor Day and I was writing TMD and watching the live stream when I saw the above graphic. We were not invited to the event, presumably for reasons… and I just sort of assumed what they showed was all anyone would know.
Did we go a little crazy? We went a little crazy. [Ed Note: We reported the information we had, which was the chart above. Nothing crazy about that; just doing our jobs! -DT]. It was looking to be a slow day and I thought it would be fun to just write up what’s there, and the more we looked the more interesting stuff we found. No one told me that at lleast a handful of outlets would be there, in person, and that the company would show them models and full-sized styling bucks of a lot of the vehicles.
It sort of sucks, but it didn’t impact the coverage too much. One of the three guesses that David made about the Jeep Wrangler Scrambler was correct. Thomas had the Rampage and Dakota roughly correct. The company was fairly straightforward with the Chrysler Airflow and I think the Ramchager. By the time we wrote up the Dodge GLH we’d figured out what was going on and our reporting was pretty much the same. Poor Mercedes, I really set her up for failure, and the SRT Copperhead post is basically three posts as we quickly updated it.
For all of the talk about what’s there, I’m kind of interested in what isn’t. There wasn’t much discussion of Alfa Romeo and Fiat in the United States, even though both are technically still sold in the US. The Jeep Wagoneer S is skipping the 2026 MY, but I don’t see it here at all? I could definitely see the company abandoning the Wagoneer S in a couple of years.
North Carolina Is Maaaaaad At VinFast
Bojangles is very much a Carolina-based operation, as VinFast will be once it finishes building its plant there. Last I checked, the Vietnamese automaker was sstill intent on building a plant in Chatham County, North Carolina.
Per Bloomberg, maybe not…
North Carolina sued Vietnamese electric vehicle maker VinFast Auto Ltd., alleging the company breached agreements tied to a planned electric vehicle and battery manufacturing facility, and seeking to reclaim the project site.
The US state was exercising its contractual right to acquire the property to protect taxpayer investments after VinFast failed to meet key obligations tied to the project, Attorney General Jeff Jackson said in a statement.
“VinFast agreed to build a factory and create jobs for North Carolinians – it didn’t do either,” Jackson said. “When North Carolina makes a deal, we build in protection for taxpayers. VinFast broke the deal, so we’re using that protection to find a project for this site that will create jobs.”
VinFast is looking into it, according to the article.
RIP Kyle Busch
Kyle Busch, age 41, won his last race in the Craftsman Truck Series this weekend at Dover Motor Speedway. He gave an incredible interview with Amanda Busick, from FS1. She asked him “Why do these moments never get old” and he replied: “Because you never know when the last one is.”
Busch was hospitalized soon after and died, unexpectedly, as was announced by NASCAR yesterday:
Our entire NASCAR family is heartbroken by the loss of Kyle Busch. A future Hall of Famer, Kyle was a rare talent, one who comes along once in a generation. He was fierce, he was passionate, he was immensely skilled and he cared deeply about the sport and fans. Throughout a career that spanned more than two decades, Kyle set records in national series wins, won championships at NASCAR’s highest level and fostered the next generation of drivers as an owner in the Truck Series. His sharp wit and competitive spirit sparked a deep emotional connection with race fans of every age, creating the proud and loyal ‘Rowdy Nation.’ Our thoughts are with Samantha, Brexton and Lennix, Kyle and Samantha’s parents, Kurt and all of Kyle’s family, Richard and Judy Childress, everyone at Richard Childress Racing, his teammates, friends and fans. NASCAR lost a giant of the sport today, far too soon.
Our thoughts are with his friends and family.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
It’s Skin Cancer Awareness Month and our friends at XPEL are celebrating with National Don’t Fry Day, so I’m going to do a week of beach songs. We end the week with Karol G’s “Si Antes Te Hubiera Conocido.”
Observed annually on the Friday before Memorial Day, National Don’t Fry Day raises awareness about the dangers of ultraviolet (UV) radiation and promotes sun-safe habits as Americans head into summer. In recognition of the occasion, XPEL is offering 15% off automotive window tint installations at participating authorized dealers and company-owned stores across the U.S. on May 22 only.
The Big Question
Are you driving or going anywhere for Memorial Day weekend? How are you getting there?
Top graphic hot dog and car elements: DepositPhotos.com
“You go in and buy your hot dog, and you’ve just been charged $25 [for fast charging] and it’s become an expensive hot dog,” Bell explained.”
Is this a joke? How does one affect the other?
I assumed the ‘hot dog anxiety’ was ‘if I stop to charge my car, will I have enough time to get a hotdog before it’s full?’ Which isn’t a problem in America, thankfully, because we have such slow charging EVs. In the rest of the world, that will start to become a problem in the next few years. But then again, foreigners don’t really go in for gas station hotdogs, so maybe not.
Me chuckling knowingly as I bite into my gasoline powered hot dog….
I don’t agree that politico is a good resource upon which to build an opinion. The global warming hoax does not mean ‘sustainable’ power is cheaper, it’s just supplemented by tax credits charged to people who are charged carbon offset taxes. Or at least it used to be, rest in hell cap and trade.
The global warming what now?
“Right now the average electricity cost in kWh is about $0.194 per kWh, way up from $0.134 in 2020.”
I would love to only pay 0.194 for juice. But this is Calif and so…
My wife is visiting her family who only live 100 miles away. I’ll be watching the Indy 500 and working that remote. There she is, mute. She’s gone, unmute. There should be an app for that.
Memorial day weekend: driving back and forth an hour each way a few times for a kid’s soccer tournament.
Right after: towing a pop-up out to Moab for a week, which’d be a lot more fun if I didn’t have to think about how thirsty our Expedition is even when there’s NOT a large mountain range to deal with.
Vinfast better build some…
Vin “Diesel’s”…Fast! (and Furious)
Ha ha
I was pretty shocked to hear about Kyle Busch (RIP)
“Because you never know when the last one is.”
Wow, that’s so true…I’m just glad he was able to do that last one. I’m not really into racing and never actively sought to get into it; but would actually like to eventually get into it some since I still have some interest in it. I have watched the Indy 500 once but only on TV- it would be so awesome to be there (plus go to the museum there which I’ve heard so many good things about from ye Autopians) Of course, I’ve also always thought monster trucks, demo derbies, the Lemons rallies, etc were so cool!
Not going anywhere fighting crowds/traffic this weekend…just hanging out at home w/ my wife having hamburgers/hot dogs.
“Hot dog anxiety?”
ATTENDANT: This hotdog’s been here since the silent era. You’d have to be insane to eat it.
KRAMER: No, no, no, no, no. This man is not insane. Now there’s nothing wrong with it or you.
LLOYD: Kramer, maybe…
KRAMER: No, no, no, no. I’ll show you. (slams a bill down on the counter) One hotdog please.
ATTENDANT: (on your head be it) Okay.
KRAMER: Mmm, doesn’t that smell good, huh?
The attendant hands over the hotdog.
KRAMER: Yeah, here we go, yeah. (he takes a big bite) Mmm, oh. That’s delicious. Mmm. It’s a perfectly sane food to eat!
(he takes another bite)
As he chews, it begins to be apparent that all is not as it should be with the
hotdog.
KRAMER: Uhm, interesting texture. It’s chewy. (he half-coughs, half-retches) I gotta get, some air.
Kramer stumbles toward the exit, bits of half-chewed hotdog falling from his
mouth.
Are you driving or going anywhere for Memorial Day weekend? How are you getting there?
Just an in-state excursion to see a baseball game. 300ish mile round trip. Going by car.
It’s a crossover event in my headspace! I started following Jeff Jackson on Instagram when he was still a US House Rep. He’s very good at explaining what’s going on without resorting to trashing “the other side,” simply listing the facts and his reasoning for his positions on them.
RIP Kyle. For some reason it feels like you have already tapped and put a good number of the other NASCAR legends up there into the wall. Accidentally of course.
TBQ? Well I plan is to be sitting at the estate, thanks to the god damned Iranians who fucked up our lives with their stupid war…/s
Thanks to you I can’t even afford a gas station hot dog this weekend.
But my pain will be eased by watching an entire day of racing Sunday, especially the exciting rain delays on network TV…/s
And wishing all here, (except Adrian) an enjoyable weekend.
Please remember the reason for this weekend if you have the time.
Not buying the ‘hot dog anxiety’. The fast charger rates are always clearly marked, just like the gas prices. Estimating how much juice your EV needs is just like estimating how much gas your ICE needs. This is not a new skill. Fast charger rates have also been ~50 cents per kWh for at least a few years now, so that’s also not new. I’m glad TMD is recognizing that EVs won’t save you money when using fast chargers, just when charging at home. But this is very old news.
I am typing this right before we take off to our cabin for the weekend. We are taking the Odyssey that is loaded and ready to go. The Ioniq 5 stays in the county and covers 80% of our driving. This is the first I have hear of hot dog anxiety. We charge at home for $.30 a kwh thanks to everything in California being a rip off.
New York City is about $0.37/kWh. It’s still cheaper than gas though.
“Are you driving or going anywhere for Memorial Day weekend? How are you getting there?”
No big trip. Saturday or Sunday we’ll drive up and check out the new visitor’s center at the Sierra Valley Nature Preserve (about 60 miles). Then go hang out at the Brewing Lair of the Lost Sierra, an open-air brewery out among the big trees just up the road on Highway 70. And gas is $5.30/gallon so taking the hybrid.
Otherwise just hanging out on the porch watching the house finches nesting in the fuchsia pots.
“The Big QuestionAre you driving or going anywhere for Memorial Day weekend? How are you getting there?”
Nope. Staying home this weekend and doing an oil change on the wife’s MGB.
First world problem, but now that I’m retired, I didn’t even realize this was Memorial Day weekend until I read this article.
I’m staying within an hour or two from home this weekend. I actually will likely do a couple Karting sessions at the local indoor track up at Nitro City in Fairfield, CA. I haven’t Karted in a LONG time, and really look forward to it. It’s also half price weekend at Pick-n-Pull, unfortunately, there aren’t any good Pickups to Pick a fender off of, so I’ll likely pass on that.
RIP Kyle.
We drove 750 miles Wednesday before the holiday weekend, spent three nights at a hotel where we were able to charge our Plug-in Rav 4 each night. Drove to a friends house for a few more days, intending to leave after the holiday weekend. So are we driving on the weekend? Yes, to the Puyallup Farmers Market. Are we on a holiday? Yes, but technically driving to or from home for that holiday on the holiday, no. Does that count as “driving or going anywhere for Memorial Day weekend?” Uh, sorta?
Not that it’s anyone’s business if the family doesn’t want to disclose it (if they know yet), but I’m really curious what terrible thing took out a healthy, fit 41 year old with enough money to access the best medical care. What presents with those symptoms that makes it seem like something fairly ordinary, but is very dangerous? Meningitis, maybe?
Evidently it was pneumonia that led to sepsis.
https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/48852216/family-says-kyle-busch-died-severe-pneumonia-sepsis
That sounds miserable. RIP.
I had read that after, but that’s a good update. Sometimes you can’t “push through it”, the body needs to be given a chance to recover. I’m not saying that’s what happened here, just making a general statement as it happens too often that someone ends up in peril or with chronic problems because they didn’t want to slow down for a bit due to a health issue.
I have Red Bull anxiety, every time I stop at the gas station to get me a Red Bull I get a tank of gas added to the bill. Not sure how it happens or why.
Headed to Indy for the 500 tomorrow. It is my first time attending and I am very excited.
Oooooh have fun!!
I’m pretty sure Hot Dog Anxiety can be lessened by keeping a Carber Vac on hand. Makes it less likely to be fired for something extremely embarrassing.
Staying within an hour of home throughout the weekend. Weather looks pretty ass for the Northeast, which is lame because every weekday before this weekend has been nice (with me trapped inside) and every day next week after Monday… also looks nice (with me trapped inside).
Edit: Oh, and what’s with dropping The Morning Dump from the name and just having the dump truck logo on the topshot? I don’t want infantile name erasure by my Autopian! I read The Morning Dump with pride, damnit.
Was there an announcement about the dump truck replacing the dump banner? I prefer my old morning dump!
Not sure about the whole hotdog thing. I suppose the price per kwh isn’t really displayed anywhere but the app before you start changing on most dispensers. Part of that is many of the charging networks have some subscriptions to bring the cost down. I think ionna might be showing it now on their dispenser screens before you start. Google is now getting data from various sources and will show you prices and there is always good old plugshare that gives you more information then you know what to do with most of the time. There are some public level 2 chargers out there that are $0.50+ a kwh. That just seems like a grift.
Maybe the whole owning a bev while living in a place you can’t charge it. The situation changes. That’s the real charging gap with no real simple solutions.
You need to factor in the costs of the monthly subscription to get your final $/kWh . Tesla is think about $.15 cheaper per kWh with the subscription but cost +$12 every month. If you only charge at level 3 infrequently, then there’s no savings.
Yeah and you are basically tied to a network because you are paying that monthly subscription. In Europe they use cards that are given by the electrical supplier. So you go to mayhe an Apple green charger use your octopus energy card and discount.
For me it was $7/month for Tesla and you can cancel anytime. If you’re going on a road trip you subscribe to save and the cancel it.
Floored by the news of Kyle Busch’s passing. Saw him win at the Bristol night race in 2009. This is a driver who won the entire NASCAR weekend (truck, Bush/Nationwide/whatever the hell they call it now, and Cup race) on multiple occasions. When he was on his game, he could beat the field piloting anything on wheels. Forty-one. Way to f*cking young. RIP, Rowdy.
Charging at home I’m paying 1/3 for electricity that I used to pay for gas to cover the same amount of miles in my BRZ which regularly got 28mpg. Probably less now since the price of gas has skyrocketed for entirely unforseen reasons in the past 6 mos and my electric rate has stayed the same.
RIP Kyle Busch. I really enjoyed watching him race especially in his early years when he was the closest thing to Dale Earnhardt’s driving style.
I don’t know that the hotdog analogy works well. I think a better comparison would be the famous $100 hamburger in aviation that results when pilots fly short legs to airports with restaurants attached, just to keep their skills sharp and get into the air. It is a normal price for the hamburger, but the flight takes the price up over $100.
Also to build flight hours, since the best paying flying jobs are off limits to pilots with less than twelve to fifteen hundred hours depending on what kind of school you trained at…
Thanks, Colgan Air…