Thinking back to when you were a kid, it’s amazing how similar the attitudes many of us had towards our transportation toys were to our current vehicles. You put decals on your trike, made engine noises, or you diligently sprayed WD40 on the chain of your bike to “enhance performance”. For many of us, it’s exactly the same way today, except the toys are larger, more powerful, and more expensive machines even though they bear little resemblance to our toys of old. Still, I’d like to blur that line of children’s toys and grown-up playthings a bit.
I’ve recently seen these things called “Big Wheel” Harleys; motorcycles with enormous 30 inch diameter wheels up front and the rider sitting as low to the ground as possible on the saddle in back.
This is one of those things that at the same time looks cool and absurd. When I see a person sitting on a bike like this with arms outstretched and ass close to the ground it almost seems as if they’re riding a giant Marx Big Wheel toy.
While this low-slung blow molded plastic trike might not be known to some younger Autopians, to those Of A Certain age it will bring memories flooding back. Introduced in 1969 by Marx toys, it was relatively inexpensive and actually approved by consumer groups as safer than a typical tricycle due to its low center of gravity. I mean, “safer” is a relative term since it usually had a handbrake to do bootleg turns, and our ten-year-old selves would “crash test” them into each other or run them down hills over plywood jumps and other such chicanery back in the day when parents truly didn’t give a shit where we went or what we did until the streetlights came on (“well, there weren’t as many scary people out there when you were growing up” says my mom now, as we sit in a house fifteen minutes from where John Wayne Gacy lived and a few miles from first grocery store that sold cyanide-laced Tylenol).
These toys were as commonplace in the seventies and eighties in American suburbia as Trabants on an East German street during the same time period (sort of like Cozy Coupes a few decades later). They didn’t rust and stood up to much abuse, the only significant wear I remember being the front wheel getting ground down from years of trying to gain front drive traction on concrete and asphalt.
Marx Toys went belly up in the early eighties, and the company Empire (Marx’s biggest competitor) took over manufacturing of the trike (we had an Empire “Hot Cycle” at our house). Sales dropped off dramatically through the nineties, with Empire declaring bankruptcy in 2001. Thankfully, the rights were bought in 2003 by a new company to continue manufacturing the iconic toy, perfect for GenXers to buy them for the next generation. I know, you’re kinda chortling at the helmet, right? We really should be dead today.
There are places that sell upsized versions of the Big Wheel, still pedal powered and capable of even more intense skids:
Obviously, we’re car people, and if it’s in your blood I am sure back when you were riding these things you dreamed of them REALLY being able to book it down the street at a rate much faster than pedal power.
One thing that could make it easier for a giant motor-powered Big Wheel to become a reality today is the dawn of usable electric power. Trying to stuff an internal combustion engine into a giant Big Wheel would sort of spoil the look and affect packaging, problems an EV Big Wheel will not have. Plus, a V-Twin on a Big Wheel would be TOO cartoonish, sort of like those shopping carts with small block V8s you see people build. I mean, we want silly but not THAT silly. Also, we have to use proportions more similar to the big wheel Harley, since the rider’s feet need to go further back than the toy. Remember, with the actual Big Wheel your feet go right up to the pedals on the center of the front wheel, which we won’t do here since we aren’t pedaling.
I’m imagining a steel or aluminum frame that we can mount plastic body panels to (we’d start with fiberglass until quantities got larger enough to mold something). A rear mounted motor and independently sprung rear wheels sits all the way in back, while the batteries would mount in front of the motor in the center of the frame. The wheels have the needed fenders for rain shielding but painted black to visually disappear into the tires.
The toy Big Wheel famously had the repositionable seat backrest that fit in pegs to allow it to adapt to a growing child. The backrest on our full-sized Big Wheel will be able to move front to back as well, not only to adjust for rider height but you can push it all the way back to allow another passenger to ride along as well, complete with pop out rear foot pegs (something that the toy Big Wheel had a warning molded in big letters telling you NOT to do, which as kids we totally ignored). As with the latest Big Wheels, there will be a storage bin attached to the rear of the backrest (a feature us GenXers didn’t get on the original but would love to have had in order to stuff in toys or cats that absolutely didn’t want to be in there).
Sitting on the toy Big Wheel, I always envisioned gauges on the forward surface of the frame that stared you in the face. Our full sized trike will of course have instruments here, namely an LCD screen for speed, range, and a multi-purpose display below for CarPlay or for other functions like traction control (hint..hint..drift/skid capabilities). Your phone would fit into a charging pocket below, a small ‘glove box’ storage compartment (there could be storage under the seat itself if batteries wouldn’t be needed there).
The grips on the handlebars need to be bigger than life to match the visual scale of the giant Big Wheel, so there would actually be leftover space on the outer edges of each real handgrip. We’ll use that space to conceal tiny rearview mirrors.
Our own bike expert Mercedes Streeter thinks the mirrors and display proposed might have issues:
Yeah, the idea does need tweaking.
With the proliferation of EV bikes, the idea of a Hog without the throb of a twin cylinder is a bit sad, and I’d rather find a totally different type of cycle to use electric power than desecrate an American icon. Why not use another American icon to push the EV revolution, even if it’s a red, yellow, and blue Brady Bunch-era toy tricycle?
Again, our own Mercedes seems to sum it up best:
I had one (the original Big Wheel toy) briefly as a kid.
A powered one sounds like a deathtrap.
I love it
That’s a ringing endorsement, isn’t it? I, too, would likely refuse to try out one of these giant trikes if they existed. If I did take one for a test drive I’d likely have to buy one that day and I’d be donating my organs by the end of the week. Still, what a way to go!
Put it this way: If you can look at one of those “Big Wheel” Harleys and take it seriously, then there’s no reason you can’t accept the insanity of a giant, adultified “Big Wheel.” Besides, you can’t flip a “Big Wheel” Harley upside down and pretend it’s an “ice cream maker,” can you?
[Editor’s Note: I have no idea how an upside-down Big Wheel looks like an ice cream-maker. Someone please explain! -DT]
Our Daydreaming Designer Creates The Minivan Of Motorcycles – The Autopian
Our Daydreaming Designer Imagines A Whole Car You Can Buy Through Amazon – The Autopian
Our Daydreaming Designer Imagines The BMW i3 If It Had Been A Retro BMW Isetta – The Autopian
I think Clive Sinclair was there with the C5: Ridiculous triwheeler. But people have gotten remarkably more stupid (and rich) the last 40 years, just look how many idiots drive those horrible Harley baggers, so there should be a market for this hipster ride also.
I love childish designs! The reason I like the Land Rover Discovery 3 is that is is the car that looks most like a generic Playmobil vehicle.
We all need these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX4fCTO44Ic
https://www.riderowdy.com/product/stupid-fast-drift-trike/
Being a fair bit younger the go-to trike of my time was the Huffy Green Machine…. a rear steer sliding death-trap for a little kid with enough strength to pedal it but weak enough not to have full control of the steering
I was there for the transition from Big Wheel to Green Machine. It was only the “rich” kid in the neighborhood that had one and we all had to take turns riding it. Sort of like putting your quarter in line on the arcade game cabinet. That Green Machine was AWESOME.
I saw one! At least, a gas-powered contraption that resembled a Big Wheel. My wife and I were looking at some houses on a half-completed tract and some guy was racing around in a full-grown version of a Big Wheel with a gas motor on the back. He was drifting in circles all through the empty streets and it looked both hilarious and incredibly dangerous.
Any kid in 1974 who ran with the backrest piece on was a dweeb.
I had a big wheel as a kid and never knew the seat was adjustable. I’m an idiot
tsrich92- I’m not sure if they all were, but if you saw the big holes in the floor that was for the pegs. They loosened up over time where they eventually didn’t hold the seat well.
With respect, if the power isn’t going through the giant front wheel it isn’t a big wheel. It needs to torque steer to the moon and the back wheels need to do absolutely nothing but slide.
This is why I recommended a 3-motor solution and two operating modes. You could have a “drift” mode that shuts off power to the rear wheels and focuses on keeping it front wheel drive, and a “performance” mode that has all three motors powered for maximizing straight-line acceleration and cornering stability which would be useful for street driving.
You are both exactly correct. I second and second.
I’d click the option box for Solid Rear Axle, for those same reasons.
Hub motor up front and casters in the rear!
The Big Wheel was nothing compared to the Cheetah.
http://www.inthe70s.com/toys/thecheetah4.shtml
The pedals were on rods and you pushed them straight forward (alternating left and right). You could spin the tires and man would that thing do great skids. Faster than anything else at the time.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-1970s-cheetah-tricycle-riding-291062391
http://cheetahridingtoy.blogspot.com/2007/12/cheetah-riding-toy-picture.html
No Big Wheel discussion is complete without this meme:
https://savannaharsenal.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/408914_2592637977296_1295048309_32327378_1024412539_n.jpg
Clear_prop: we did really learn about physics very early on.
Like the fun fact that a cylinder would roll out of the way. I also learned about plywood thickness relative to stiffness. Funny how this article had me subconsciously reaching to pick long-healed scabs off my knees
That was me all day. If I look carefully, I can still find the scars. Aside from playing rugby, it was the best fun I ever had getting banged up.
Those “big wheel Harleys” look like the motorcycle version of the Carolina Squat.
That said my intuitive response to an electric Big Wheel is to go low tech and cheap with e-bike technology. Stick a hub motor in the front wheel, embed a standard power display in the frame and a couple of bicycle disk brakes in back operated by separate hand levers so you can steer with them, or possibly a tractor style split pedal so you can link them. A standard battery pack goes in the frame with foot pegs or possibly foot boards out front. Simple, crude and speed limited to be a powered bicycle.
Big Wheels had not yet appeared when I was a kid. Our big thrill was lying on a mechanic’s creeper and racing down the steepest street in the neighborhood. Sort of a lube luge. Usually we were supine and rolling feet first. If you were feeling especially bold, it was headfirst and prone. Biggest problem was those little wheels didn’t always want to go the same direction and any divot or pebble on the road could send you careening into a curb or under a (hopefully) parked car. The wheels broke off a lot, too. We never wore helmets to protect our noodles because that’s the skull’s job.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/998158917887320/?mibextid=dXMIcH
You mean something like this? Sorry gas power beat you to it.
I don’t doubt gas powered ones are out there. But as I mentioned, I would want to keep the look clean and not have the ICE engine sound. Either quiet or that classic CLACK CLACK CLACK you got from a rolling Big Wheel toy.
No, no gas power. Needs a clean look and must be quiet. Or just have a fake CLACK CLACK CLACK Big Wheel sound pumped out of speakers.
I wouldn’t want to do more than about 70 mph in something like this, assuming it had full suspension and hydraulic disc brakes.
Here’s how I’d tackle this project regarding the electric drivetrain:
-Leafbike 2000W 4T wind PMDC hub motor up front in a 21″ DOT motorcycle wheel, motor modified with hubsink and ferrofluid
-Leafbike 2000W 3T wind PMDC hub motor in each rear 16″ DOT wheel, motor modified with hubsink and ferrofluid
-An ASI BAC2000 controller for each motor, set to 150A max phase current
-A 20S6P pack of Molicel P45B 21700 batteries, for 72V nominal 27AH and up to 20 kW continuous power, an about 3x that peak power for < 10s at a time; can buy a suitable BMS off of BatteryHookup.com good for 300A
-Run it all off of a twist throttle and a Cycle Analyst v3 computer
It would have all wheel drive. The bike would probably weigh around 120 lbs as such, and would make roughly 25 peak horsepower at the wheels. With a 200lb rider, 0-60 mph would be around 4 seconds when applying power to all three wheels. The controllers and computer could be set to allow it to drift when desired, or handle with stability when desired, by setting up some programmable options that can be switched, by changing the current/power applied between front and rear motors.
Range would be crap at highway speeds. Probably around 15 miles at 70 mph. Ride it conservatively around town, it would probably get an honest 30-50 mile range at 30-35 mph speeds.
I’m surprised you said 70MPH; I was thinking you’d want to limit this thing to just over half that. Those acceleration figures work for me, for sure.
If it has full suspension, hydraulic disc brakes, at least 5″ ground clearance, the batteries and electronics are kept down low just behind the rider, DOT tires on all wheels, possibly a steering damper, a sufficiently long wheelbase, and the programming of the electronics done correctly, this thing could be sufficiently stable to handle that speed every bit as competently as a motorcycle when you want it to in “performance” mode, and in “drift” mode, you can also fuck around and find out if you want as well. The latter would obviously not be recommended on the highway.
Best of all, it would be possible to make such a thing fully street legal.
I just want to clarify that the reason I would do it this way, is that you could give the rider the option of a “performance” mode for straight-line acceleration and cornering stability, and a “drift” mode for fucking around and sliding all over the place, while not even needing a limited slip differential to pull it off. All of the above parts are available off the shelf for the hobbyist market right now. The configuration above is buildable for under $5k in total EV parts in volume for one vehicle, and if bulk-ordered by the thousands, those parts could cost perhaps 50% as much.
Indeed- the nostalgic drift aspect of the thing would be the selling point. Nobody would want to run this thing on a cross country Honda Gold Wing-type trip. I mean, I can’t believe we’re getting this serious about a giant Big Wheel in the first place.
You’d need a much larger battery, and consequently a much heavier vehicle, for long trips, which would require different motors to pull this off.
The guise I outlined above could keep it light and fun, and still very usable around town.
Here’s a real-life version of what you proposed, maybe not as fast as what I outlined, but it is still quite ridiculous:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfM0qCd7p9g
ICE version available already built for under $2k
The ICE parts enjoy economies of scale that the above EV parts do not. At least not yet. Those Leafbike motors are hand-built at the moment. I paid $260 for the one in my custom built trike, not counting shipping from China(which made it over $500). Those controllers are also hand built. Those batteries have a ridiculous markup about 3x what they would cost in volume for thousands of vehicles.
Dude, you’ve just made the case for building one yourself. Set up the GoFundMe and get to work!
I have other priorities for things I’d like to build. Mainly my own projects that are in progress. Currently waiting on some parts from Lithuania for my “bicycle”/microcar build and need to order a high voltage controller. Will be upgrading to a 72V pack as an interim solution between the current 46.8V pack and the planned 108V pack. Waiting on a BMS for the 108V pack to arrive, and decided to order a no-weld battery assembly solution so that I can up the performance according to my controller’s 72V limit, and I have a 72V BMS laying around to use. When the 108V BMS arrives, I can take the pack apart and then permanently spot weld the 108V pack together out of the same cells by rearranging them.
Should be good for roughly 80 mph with 72V. I’ll try not to kill myself.
We put this in front of the focus groups for their feedback.
*sigh*
Here’s the deficiencies they came back with:
If you could address those issues, I think marketing can make a case for production.
No, if you want all of this you’ll have to look at my adult sized Cozy Coupe Neiman Marcus Edition
Here’s the real thing, road-worthy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvOSTwPdGAI
Needs a shopping cart (er.. trolley) trailer.
Every one of these I ever rode had a gigantic flat spot on the big front wheel from trying to stop on Pittsburgh suburban hills. Thump – thump – thump – thump. Still great fun until we got BMX bikes a few years later.
Been on those and similar hills. No flat spots but did wear away the plastic to an open gash.
You were trying to gain traction? I was perfectly happy doing burnouts.
My favorite big wheel when I was a kid was called the sidewinder. It had a little handbrake and you could actually do drifts. I wore the wheels out on several of those.
Anybody else have a Hot Seat? One trike to rule them all!
I’ll admit to skimming a little of this, but going over the sketch pretty heavily, I can’t see where the chainsaw goes. What do you do if you need to swap out batteries after doing some sweet spins with friends for a few hours?
Greg- as a retro thing I’m imagining one that would be powered by 346 “D” cells. I mean, they could be rechargeable “D” cells so there’s that.
one step ahead!
BATTERIES NOT INCLUDED
File under: My money, shut up and take.
Would the rear end be a solid axle? An open diff? A[n] LSD?
How would the rider operate the brakes? I’m not seeing a lever for the front disc or a pedal for the rear discs. In the interest of practicality, I propose no front brake: the dual discs on the rear – with the attendant wider tires – would likely provide enough braking. (Yes, I know the front brakes can provide more braking force, but this generally requires a) an experienced operator and b) an effective contact patch.)
From an ergo perspective, I think the rider’s knees would be trying to occupy the same space as the grips. 🙂
I like the rear fenders, though I think they will be less about rain protection and more about passenger elbow protection.
Fun fact: you could take the seat off of the original Big Wheels and treat them as oddly-shaped scooters: one foot on the seat area and one foot pushing.
A. Barth- the rear suspension is independent and I do see putting a differential in there. No front brake is fine with me, as long as there are powerful rear brakes; this is a Big Wheel so if you have to ask why you’ve never owned a big wheel.
Knees could be in the way but I actually traced off of an image of a Big Wheel Harley so the ergonomics should be similar to one of those. Meaning pretty terrible.
Brake controls we’d need to look at. Again, an EV so obviously no clutch or gears.
Motorcycles have a foot operated rear brake. This has 2 rear wheels and 2 foot “pegs”. If the rear brakes are independently controlled, sweet drifts could be had in either direction!
Jeff- now we’re getting into Green Machine territory and I like it
Big wheels have very unstable cornering and braking dynamics. That is the entire point of their design. Drift trikes have been built around the same concept.
I get the appeal from a fun standpoint, but not my cup of tea. I don’t like spinning around unpredictably. I also had a big wheel when I was a little kid, and was sad when I got too big for it, but there are bigger and better things out there.
I’m building a vehicle in the opposite direction. I’m thinking more “race car” turned microcar, but with 3 wheels and a bicycle drivetrain to get around various laws. Two wheels in the front, one in the back. No drifting, as that will get you killed, but I’m going to make damned sure it corners with lots of stability and lateral Gs without tipping over. Gas shocks on all 3 wheels.
Mine can do donuts and I’ve also panic stopped it from 50 mph without issue when it had the lowly Avid BB7 cable pull disc brakes on it. Now it has hydraulic disc brakes which assure it stops nice and straight every time, and a motorcycle handle and reservoir to assure the kinetic energy dissipated doesn’t boil the DOT3 fluid, plus there’s a mechanical disc brake and regen in the rear as a backup.
We might need a Toecutter blog every now and again.
You kind of do, in the comments. Although giving ’em their own space seems righteous.
I’ll gladly write for you, as long as I have the time available. Waiting on some parts from Lithuania for my “bicycle”(microcar) build. About to try a 72V setup as an interim solution between now and getting the 108V battery finalized. 46.8V restricts my speed to 50 mph, even with the 13 horsepower on tap, but 72V should allow around 80 mph. Will be a massive upgrade. Expecting to get a 0-60 mph time of around 8 seconds.
In the future, I might add a hub motor to each front wheel depending on how this works out, which would make this vehicle’s acceleration nothing short of ridiculous.
Brakes? Brakes? We dont need know stickin brakes.
I’ve got something along these lines right now. The layout is inverted, and it’s built for stable cornering instead of drifting, with a focus on efficiency over appearance, and practicality over fun(although it is still VERY fun and I hoon the shit out of this thing almost every time I drive it). I use it as a daily. Here’s pics:
https://i.imgur.com/1KvhZN8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/j75uGn7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1aaEtdp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Jrz8rYc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/tzO209r.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sPN7T9X.jpg
It now has 13 horsepower, which is enough to take most cars off the line and do donuts effortlessly. It has hydraulic disc brakes on the front wheels and a cable-pull disc brake on the rear plus regen in the rear, with gs shocks for all three wheels. It weighed just over 90 lbs with the body on it. I’m working on a new body that will be made out of a stronger material than corrugated plastic(looking into carbon fiber and possibly ordering vacuum molding equipment, plus going to have a friend bend me pieces for a roll cage and weld them together), and the next body is going to be significantly more slippery, so that said 13 horsepower will be enough to hit about 110 mph with some horses to spare once the 108V battery is installed. Expecting the completed version to be around 100 lbs.
It is still very pedalable with the motor disabled, faster than a normal bicycle. Before motorizing it, I got pulled over doing 60 mph downhill, and after motorizing it, I can still sprint to 35 mph on flat ground and hold 20+ mph all day long as long as I’m not going up hill.
Range is 150-200 miles at 30-35 mph on a 1.5 kWh battery. Take the body off, and I lose 2/3 to 3/4 of the range at those speeds. So aero makes a massive difference, especially in a lighter vehicle like this. The same physics that apply to this vehicle also applies to your car, and the efficiency your car gets scales accordingly for a given choice of engine.
The top pic of it in the snow makes me happy. I had a VW powered buggy/sandrail for a time, and wanted to make it a snobuggy by adding coroplast panels to keep the slush off the driver.
A suggestion for longer-term pool noodle substitute: Armaflex pipe insulation covered either in their tape or ProTape from an HVAC supply house. The Armaflex is more cushy than pool noodles, and that tape will keep it from degrading. Not a cheap-but way more comfortable
It’s possibly getting a carbon fiber shell over a chrome-moly-steel roll cage next go-around, or at the bare minimum, 3D printed plastic shell wrapped in fiberglass, also over a chrome-moly-steel roll cage. That shell is currently in the works. It is based on a Milan SL velomobile I own, which has a Cd value of 0.08 and frontal area of 0.41m^2. I’m going to have more ground clearance, more frontal area due to wider front track, and accessible front wheels, so Cd won’t be 0.08, but it might be around 0.15, with a frontal area of about 0.6 m^2.
A friend of mine has a 3D printer that can do 1 m^3. I need to get the .stl file finalized and order the material.
When the UPS truck came to my house in the early 80s, I knew my replacement wheel had arrived. The previous one had been ground down all the way through the plastic by stopping via reverse pedaling, skidding the plastic against the rough concrete. Now the UPS truck comes to my house all the time, delivering any random crap someone has ordered.
John- they still worked in that condition (with the two separate sides) but it was not a fun ride. Sort of like riding on the rim.
Cool! Now make a rear-steer version, like the Green Machine.
Mark- indeed, thought about that but then it would go from possibly dangerous trike to “death awaits”
I would mount foot rests on the front axles, to really get that “toy to reality” transition look better, what’s the worst that could happen?
I’m guessing toecutter might have some opinions on this.
Oh yes. It’s the opposite of what I’d build.
There are already some bonkers-assed electric drift trikes, as well. See the following:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfM0qCd7p9g
I want to build the “microcar” version of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKAMus3oSdw
Smiled, then chuckled gleefully.
so looking forward to Toecutter’s hoonage videos.
‘Big Wheel’ For Adults – you mean they’re not? I have a foggy memory of riding my friend’s kid’s Big Wheel at a party. I was an adult, at least physically.