Home » I’m Not Convinced Stellantis Can Stick The Landing

I’m Not Convinced Stellantis Can Stick The Landing

Tmd Stellantis Airflow
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Stellantis, the automaker cobbled together from various global brands, made less money in the first quarter of 2024. Suppliers are mad at it. Whole countries are kinda mad at it. The company has squeezed and squeezed in order to prepare itself for a product onslaught that should mark the next big leap in the company. But what if those products aren’t popular? Then what happens?

I have no idea what will transpire because I do not have a time machine, a crystal ball, or any other way of predicting the future. If I did I probably wouldn’t have paid for MLB TV this year. But I’ve been doing this for a little while and I think I understand what Stellantis is trying to do; I’m just not sure it’s going to work.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

Mercedes-Benz is another automaker that saw a drop in Q1, though I’m a little less worried about Mercedes and its product lineup. Penske Automotive also saw its revenues drop like Georgina. What’s going on?

All of this news would make you think April was a terrible month but, adjusted for seasonality, the market was close to that magic 16 million number. What gives?

The Bear Case For Stellantis

Carlos Tavares Lovits
Source: The Wedding Singer

Few people in April of 2019 would have predicted that we’d all be Clorox-wiping tins of Pringles just a year later.

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It was, however, great timing for Stellantis. The automaker came to being as a merger of FCA (itself a merger of Fiat’s brands and Chrysler’s brands) and PSA (itself a merger of Peugeot, Citroën, DS, and Opel). Rationalizing and combining all of these brands, products, and markets wasn’t something that was going to be easy.

The company’s leadership, under the guidance of Carlos Tavares (pictured), had a plan for it. You can see this plan clearly here in the United States where the former-FCA brands have stretched their product portfolios as long as possible. Seriously, the Dodge Challenger had more farewell tours than Elton John.

This worked well for Stellantis, and the pandemic didn’t hurt, as dwindling supplies meant buyers were desperate to buy anything and willing to pay above-market prices for what were often old platforms. Stellantis therefore made huge profits.

The All New, All Electric Jeep® Recon: 100% Jeep; 100% Zero Emi
The all-new, all-electric Jeep® Recon: 100% Jeep; 100% zero emission

Now that inventory is back up for its competitors, Stellantis has seen its sales slide in Europe and the United States. The company seems to constantly be bickering with the Italian government. Suppliers have been squeezed so hard they’re threatening to strike. Stellantis has also laid off white collar workers and engineers in the United States.

Shareholders are questioning whether Tavares should get a big pay boost under the circumstances.

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All of this may seem wild but it makes sense if you play engine-builder board games. These strategy games aren’t about building literal engines (usually), but about making a series of strategic decisions early in a game based on your position that will only pay off much later.

One of the engine-builders I love is Race for the Galaxy, which is card-based game that sees you trying to colonize some far-off galaxy. Do you take the diplomatic strategy? Is it an industrial play? Maybe military? It’s often not clear who will win until the last turn of cards, as small permutations in chance and the play of others finally come together to reveal who made the right moves earlier in the game. Thankfully, this game usually takes less than an hour. The last game of Viticulture I played took almost three hours before culminating (I lost).

What Tavares and crew are doing is similar, and the strategy is extremely sound. Harvest credits (profits) early, build your engine (or motors, in this case), and then be ready in the last round to win all of the points.

It’s why this quarter’s drop in Q1 net revenues of 12% year-over-year shouldn’t be that big of a deal. It’s all part of the plan. The company’s CFO, Natalie Knight, basically says so in its earnings release:

“While Q1 2024 year-over-year shipments and Net revenues comparisons were difficult due to transitions in our next generation product portfolio manufactured on new platforms, we are delivering clear improvements in key commercial dynamics with customer sales outpacing shipments. We are reducing inventories to reinforce our strong relative pricing ahead of our new or mid-cycle product launches this year in key regions. During Q1 2024, we have introduced four new models out of our full-year launch plan of 25 models, including 18 BEV nameplates, which we believe sets the stage for materially improved growth and profitability in the second half of the year.”

This is all extremely sensible, though it does raise an important question: What if the products suck? I get that the Dodge Hornet is sort of a mid-cycle bandaid to get something to dealers. Perhaps it’s unfair to judge on this one product launch, but I’m looking at what Stellantis is planning to do and I’m not 100% convinced it’ll work, at least here in North America.

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2024 Dodge Charger Daytona Scat Pack, Shown In Triple Nickel.

Is the Jeep Recon going to be so great that it’ll stand up against the Scout, Cybertruck, and Rivian? Will the EV/Six combo of the 2025 Dodge Charger move the Mopar faithful? I think the new electric Fiat 500 looks great and I’m hopeful it’ll find a market, but it’s a little expensive at $34k for what you get, especially when you consider the Volvo EX30 costs about the same.

If there’s one brand I’m a little more bullish on its Ram, which has the 1500 RHO, the new regular 1500, the RAM REV, and the new Ramcharger. That’s a good portfolio, though RAM is still missing a competitor to either the Maverick or Ranger/Colorado/Tacoma.

In Europe, it’s also a little mixed. Will the Alfa Junior be a hit? Can the company find more customers for the Peugeot 408? The company is truly global, so two markets aren’t the whole game, but the company has been soft across the board. Sales were down 20% in North America, 6% in Europe, and 46% in China/India/Asia Pacific.

I’m not saying or hoping that Stellantis will fail to deliver on its new products. As a car enthusiast, I want them all to be awesome cars and trucks that we can all enjoy. I’m just pointing out what I think is obvious, which is that the company is making a huge bet on its product delivering in a big way over the next 12 months and, outside of RAM, I’m not convinced there are a ton of huge winners.

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It would be nice to be wrong about this.

Mercedes Earnings Dropped 30% In Q1 2024

Mercedes Benz Eqs, Modelljahr 2024 Mercedes Benz Eqs Model Year 2024

Mercedes-Benz saw a big drop in earnings before interest and taxes (29.8%) and also blamed a product changeover, though the company also has decent cash as it has managed to keep things tight.

From the company’s release:

Mercedes-Benz Group AG (ticker symbol: MBG) reported Free Cash Flow from the industrial business at a solid €2.23 billion (Q1 2023: €2.16 billion) in the first quarter with strong cash conversion including positive working capital developments. Group Earnings Before Interest and Taxes (EBIT) totalled €3.9 billion (Q1 2023: €5.5 billion), reflecting lower raw material prices, tight cost control and a strong performance at Mercedes-Benz Vans. These effects partially offset lower sales at Mercedes-Benz Cars where supplier bottlenecks and model changeovers in the Top-End segment also led to a less favourable model mix. Group revenue came in at €35.9 billion (Q1 2023: €37.5 billion).

Lower revenue is pretty much always bad, but Mercedes is making it clear it won’t get dragged into an EV price war. I don’t love the current crop of Mercedes EVs, as I think BMW offers better in almost every class, but the vehicles still remain popular globally.

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Penske Automotive Net Income Drops 28%

Penske Truck
Photo: Penske

Penske Automotive is one of America’s largest dealers and also has a transportation business, neither of which excelled in Q1.

Per Automotive News:

Penske Automotive said its retail automotive service and parts revenue grew 9 percent to a quarterly record of $746 million. Excluding agency sales, same-store gross profit per new vehicle retailed fell 18 percent to $5,195, and same-store gross profit per used vehicle slipped 0.1 percent to $1,833.

Though Penske’s offerings skew more premium, price pressure and interest rates are tough on everyone. But it wasn’t the dealerships that were the big problem. From Penske’s release, it sounds like it was Penske Transportation Solutions:

Lower equity earnings from PTS were primarily due to lower commercial rental utilization, lower consumer rental revenue, higher interest rates and average debt balances, and lower gains from the sale of revenue earning vehicles partially offset by improved operating results in full-service leasing and distribution center management when compared to the same period in 2023.

This isn’t that unexpected given there was a huge, clearly unsustainable expansion in trucking supply over the last couple of years. If only there was a push-to-pass button for business…

SAAR 16 Million!

2023 Corolla Cross Hybrid Se Blue crush metallic 001

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For the third time, the seasonally adjusted annual rate (SAAR) likely hit 16 million vehicles in April, which is pretty good.

From S&P Global Mobility:

S&P Global Mobility projects new light vehicle sales volume in April 2024 to reach 1.34 million units. While this unadjusted volume total would be a drop from both the month prior (down 7%) and year-ago (down 2%) levels, two fewer selling days than March 2024 and one less than April 2023 more than account for any potential declines. This volume would translate to an estimated sales pace of 16.0 million units (seasonally adjusted annual rate: SAAR), just the third time in the past 24 months the metric has reached this level.

“With an auto sales environment currently defined by the mixed signals of advancing inventory and incentives, together with affordability concerns from high interest rates and still-high vehicle prices, the anticipated April result reflects that consumers are still in the market for a new vehicle,” said Chris Hopson, principal analyst at S&P Global Mobility.

Someone is selling cars! There’s a market out there and brands with attractive and competitive affordable cars and hybrids are doing well.

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

David and I don’t always listen to the same music, but Elton John is one of those artists we both enjoy. This whole album is great.

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The Big Question

I’m wrong, right? Tell me I’m wrong. Tell me the Stellantis product that’s going to get everyone excited.

 

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Shooting Brake
Shooting Brake
1 month ago

Stellantis in its current form won’t survive. Either it will die and the bones (brands that have some value) will be carved up by others or it’ll squeak by killing off a bunch of the dead weight brands along the way.

Mechjaz
Mechjaz
1 month ago

I think you paying for MLB TV just indicates that you experience the world in geological time, such that baseball feels exciting. Will these two plates grind and thrust mountains into the sky or will we make it to the fifth inning first? Stick around and find out!

Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
1 month ago
Reply to  Mechjaz

Baseball makes golf exciting

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Username Loading...
1 month ago

I don’t understand what Stellantis is doing. They have a bunch of brands that are starved for product, some of them have decent brand equity too. Dodge for example really just needs to make s o m e t h i n g what it is doesn’t matter as much as long as it is affordable and has kinda aggressive styling. I mean this is the same company that sold the Avenger, a car which I am told a good number of people actually bought willingly. So I not sure why they are languishing with no product when nearly anything will do.

Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
1 month ago

Tavares’ advisors told him he needed to Jeep out for success, but he heard “cheap out” and, well, here we are.

Captain Muppet
Captain Muppet
1 month ago

Stellantis are going to win big when the secret skunkworks at Citroen unveil a retro-futuristic actual DS (not all this DS branded bullshit, which wasn’t part of a merger, it was just pulled out of PSA’s arse) which looks like a spaceship and glides around as an EV or REEV. Let Torch do all the lighting, I want fancy-looking 2020’s LED headlights that steer using 1950’s Bowden cables strapped to the steering rack.

Then they’ll improve sales of everything with an Opel or Vauxhall badge just by swapping the branding, so the UK gets Opels again for the first time since the 80’s, and Europe can enjoy mediocrity like the British do with a griffin badge on the front and self-loathing behind the wheel.

Fiat can go back to having 90% of the Italian market by stirring up some nationalism, maybe by only selling cars in red with Italian flag stripes.

Alfa can just give up. Launch a new thing every few years with absolutely minimal investment, people who like having their hearts broken will buy it regardless, and the rest of us would never buy one anyway (unless they collaborate with Toyota to make a new SZ based on the 86 platform but with an Alfa V6 and brutalist styling, which they should definitely do).

Jeep could sell more in the UK by amping up their apocalypse-readiness, now the Defender is posh/expensive the prepper market is lost and confused. Plus everything it turning to shit here, so being ready for the end makes sense (which is why Hilux prices have gone insane).

Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
1 month ago
Reply to  Captain Muppet

DS as a brand is as stupid as RAM as a brand.

$1 says Citroën’s next big technical leap is magnetic levitation suspension.

Man With A Reliable Jeep
Man With A Reliable Jeep
1 month ago

It’s not hard to see why Penske Transportation Solutions (PTS) is hurting. With interest rates and mortgage rates high correlatively, along with sky high home prices, fewer people are moving.

That said, my FIL had retired several years back and decided to ferry moving trucks from store to store for Penske as a part time gig to keep busy and have some walking around money. He told me all kinds of stories about the disorganized mess, lack of management accountability, and general piss poor operations. They failed to plan trips to consolidate mileage and worker pay. They often ran routes unnecessarily and failed to coordinate with the drivers to create any operational efficiency. He would often make suggestions to management on how to improve these aspects (he used to be the administrator for a number of different healthcare groups), but his suggestions fell on deaf ears.

It was obvious all these decisions and non-decisions and inaction were causing them to hemorrhage money. The stupid thing was, they were always hustling to correct mistakes and oversights made, so even though he was a part time driver, they relied on him to the point of him often earning overtime, which forced their hand to give him healthcare coverage, causing them to lose more money on a “part time employee.” Eventually, all the issues stemming from this came to a head and he tendered his resignation. And despite him reaching out to tell them they could cut it off, they continued to pay his health care premiums for another several months.

Parsko
Parsko
1 month ago

Let me guess how they reacted:
“You’re the part time drive, what input could you possibly have???” But with snark and sarcasm. God forbid anyone else have an idea.

MrLM002
MrLM002
1 month ago

The Jeep Recon was a flop the day it was announced.

‘Yeah it’s a 4 door unibody hardtop with independent suspension all around that is the size of the current Wrangler but I swear it’s a Jeep, and that it won’t forcibly replace the Wrangler…’ – Jeep

Jeep needs to put the original magneto Wrangler concept into production with a twinair range extender as an option.

Urban Runabout
Urban Runabout
1 month ago

Jeep is cursed – Everyone who owns them goes broke.

The issue w/ Stellantis is it has too many brands and platforms that are sold in too few markets where they can’t be easily rebadged as something else for markets they’re not sold in.

You can’t rebadge/rebody that enormous Charger to sell as an Opel or Peugeot.

You might be able to rebadge a Peugeot 408 as a Chrysler 300 – but it would be too expensive for the US market in that size class.

You can’t rebadge a Citroen C4 Cactus as a Dodge – as it’s driving style is too relaxed for “Speed Racer” Dodge buyers – but maybe as a Fiat which, as a brand, has about zero US market credibility.

Maybe Opel Mokkas, Grandlands and Crossland’s could be Chryslers or Fiats.

The EV versions of Corsa, Mokka and Astra are actually the types of cars that US buyers are clamoring for right now – but Stellantis doesn’t have a brand to sell these under in the US, and they’d probably be too expensive to compete w Tesla and the Chinese.

Remind me again why Ram exists?

Data
Data
1 month ago
Reply to  Urban Runabout

I would assume he meant why did it get broken out into it’s own brand vs being part of Dodge. Most people still refer to them as Dodge Rams, much like people still refer to the Mazda MX-5 as the Miata even though the name died when the third generation NC launched.

Jatkat
Jatkat
1 month ago
Reply to  Urban Runabout

I think he means, “why aren’t they just DODGE Rams”? Because thats what everyone thinks they are, and thats what they were for a million years.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
1 month ago
Reply to  Urban Runabout

Remind me again why Ram exists?”

It exists due to a bad decision by a late CEO who knew nothing of Dodge’s brand truck-heavy heritage… probably with the assistance of some idiot marketing people who wanted to change things just for the sake of change so they could further their own careers with a “great idea” like that.

Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
1 month ago
Reply to  Urban Runabout

> Jeep is cursed – Everyone who owns them goes broke

The car or the brand?

(The answer is “yes”)

Jim Stock
Jim Stock
1 month ago

Someday the Jeep Wrangler and ram trucks will be all that is left of Stellantis in the US.

World24
World24
1 month ago

Tell me the Stellantis product that’s going to get everyone excited.

Outside of the Ramcharger, nothing. The RHO is a re-engined TRX that’s not as wild, the Charger still has a stigma for V8’s going into an EV/I6 evolution, the Recon and Wagoneer S are two vehicles that make sense to the Sergio yes-men of old, but not as actual Jeeps, and what else? Oh, nothing, because Stellantis is too busy pouring money into the European auto market and not putting time and money into the American market. You know, the bigger money maker? If they put half the time into building their Peugeot’s, Citroën’s, Opel’s, and Elkmanns wet dream Alfa Romeo, they could actually make BIG profits.
If only they cared.

Goose
Goose
1 month ago
Reply to  World24

The RHO is a re-engined TRX that’s not as wild

It’s also way cheaper than the TRX. I don’t see what the problem is. Compare it to other similarly priced stuff and it’s a sweet deal. It isn’t even that much less wild considering how much cheaper it is.

World24
World24
1 month ago
Reply to  Goose

It’s not the Ramcharger. The Ramcharger is actually pretty sweet, and it’s something from CDJR that’s getting people excited: the only people excited for the RHO just wanted something that wasn’t powered by a Hellcat.

Eggsalad
Eggsalad
1 month ago

The Jeep Curse. Whoever makes Jeeps is doomed.
American Bantam? Gone.
Willys? Gone.
AMC? Gone.
Chrysler Corporation? Gone.
Daimler-Chrysler? Gone.
Cereberus? Gone from the motor vehicle industry.
FCA? Gone.
It’s not a matter of “if” for Stellantis, but “when”.

V10omous
V10omous
1 month ago
Reply to  Eggsalad

Alternatively I suppose, Jeep has always been desirable enough for its owner to attract attention from larger companies.

Jim Stock
Jim Stock
1 month ago
Reply to  Eggsalad

Yes, THIS. Yet, somehow the CJ/Wrangler soldiers on.

Data
Data
1 month ago
Reply to  Eggsalad

Ford made Jeeps for WWII. They’re still around.

Rad Barchetta
Rad Barchetta
1 month ago
Reply to  Data

Those were jeeps, not Jeeps.

MY LEG!
MY LEG!
1 month ago
Reply to  Data

Ford primed everyone to call it a “Jeep” by calling their production of the “jeep” the GP/GPW, but the Jeep didn’t get the official, marketed name until Willys-Overland trademarked it in 1943. You could argue that Ford weaponized the killing power of the name :v

Last edited 1 month ago by MY LEG!
Man With A Reliable Jeep
Man With A Reliable Jeep
1 month ago
Reply to  Eggsalad

It’s a Jeep thing, automakers wouldn’t understand.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
1 month ago
Reply to  Eggsalad

Don’t forget about Kaiser… they were the company that bought Willys and were subsequently bought by AMC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser_Jeep

Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
1 month ago
Reply to  Eggsalad

David Tracy? Gone… Hollywood.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
1 month ago

“David Tracy? Gone… Hollywood.”

SUPERTRAMP!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbqVPYZgK48

Last edited 1 month ago by Manwich Sandwich
Drew
Drew
1 month ago

Elton John is one of those artists we both virtually everyone can enjoy.

I don’t think I’ve ever known anyone to dislike Elton John’s music. A song or two, sure, but not his music overall. True mass appeal.

Cheats McCheats
Cheats McCheats
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

Now you do!

Stoney got got (potentially)
Stoney got got (potentially)
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

Other than Tiny Dancer, now you know two people!

Mike B
Mike B
1 month ago

Do you mean “Tony Danza”? I always hear “Hold me closer, Tony Danzaaaa”.

You’re welcome.

Stoney got got (potentially)
Stoney got got (potentially)
1 month ago
Reply to  Mike B

Well, I guess as far as taxi drivers go, Tony Danza would be a top-notch hug.

AssMatt
AssMatt
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

Elton John has really suffered from the scourge of jukebox/corporate radio, where we hear the same three goddam songs over and over again. Today is the first time I’ve ever heard OF the Tumbleweed Connection, much less the song Matt featured, because I would NEVER go seek out anything by Elton John due to overexposure…except there are probably a hundred songs like this to which I haven’t been exposed. I really appreciate this facet of the Morning Dump! It won’t change how I feel about Elton’s voice, or about the sound of his primary instrument, or about upper-register bass leads played with a pick, but I sure like hearing new stuff and I’m too old and lazy and cheap to find it myself.

Drew
Drew
1 month ago
Reply to  AssMatt

That is fair. I definitely know people who absolutely dislike the overplayed Elton John stuff. He has a deep and varied catalog, but you wouldn’t know it if you just get Benny and the Jets, Your Song, and Candle in the Wind over and over on the radio.

Last edited 1 month ago by Drew
AssMatt
AssMatt
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

Now that you mention it, your original point is borne out by an old This American Life in which Sarah Vowell assembles a cover band, and “Rocketman” is the song they elect to cover; I don’t know where it might still be available, but it’s literally called “Everyone Speaks Elton John.” Mass appeal indeed!

Drew
Drew
1 month ago
Reply to  AssMatt

I’m going to have to look that one up. I don’t think I’ve seen it, but it sounds fun. Thanks!

Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

Funeral For A Friend might be my favorite composition of all time. Every single note played in that song has thought and care behind it. On paper it seems like boring proggy excess (8 minutes? Several tempo and key changes? Weird scales?) but in practice it’s an absolute joy to listen to. Hell if I catch it midway through I always have to listen to it front to back when I get home because every minute of it is so lush and expansive.

I fucking adore that song. If I had to pick a list of songs to represent humanity it would be one of my first choices.

Drew
Drew
1 month ago

Oooh, now I’ve definitely gotta listen to that one. You are very correct and it has been too long since I’ve listened to it.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

You should just listen to the entire Goodbye Yellow Brick Road album from start to finish. It’s an amazing album and the opening song is A Funeral For a Friend/Love Lies Bleeding.

Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
1 month ago

Other lesser-known killer cuts:

Lady Samantha
Skyline Pigeon
It’s Me That You Need
Just Like Strange Rain

Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
1 month ago

It’s a brilliant fkn song. Coked out Elton wrote SO MUCH STUFF and most of it was SO GOOD.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
1 month ago
Reply to  AssMatt

If you like Tumbleweed Connection, then you’ll probably also like Madman Across The Water:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_Across_the_Water

And Honkey Chateau:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honky_Ch%C3%A2teau

… and other albums from the time before Goodbye Yellow Brick Road… which is the album where he REALLY hit the big time.

Also before Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, some of his music had a bit of a country vibe to it

Robert L
Robert L
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

Yeah, I’ll add on that I don’t care for his music for whatever reason.

Wuffles Cookie
Wuffles Cookie
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

How about the time Harley-Davidson completely failed to read the room and booked him as the surprise headliner for their 100th anniversary party? The Milwaukee Iron crowd clearly does not appreciate him.

Drew
Drew
1 month ago
Reply to  Wuffles Cookie

I have some theories about that flop regarding some bikers’ fragile masculinity, but I think it’s fair to say that Elton John isn’t the vibe people thought the party would build up to, regardless of reason. It was definitely a weird choice for the event.

Last edited 1 month ago by Drew
Wuffles Cookie
Wuffles Cookie
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

Well, gonna disagree on the “fragile masculinity” thought-terminating cliche, but mostly I think it’s because vicious rumor was Motorhead was the surprise headliner. Which very much fits, and Elton John does not.

Drew
Drew
1 month ago
Reply to  Wuffles Cookie

Motorhead would have definitely been a better fit.

As to the disagreement, that’s mostly fair. I just think of Harley Davidson riders as typically very focused on projecting a certain image and Elton John would not be a part of that image. It may be an unfair generalization.

Last edited 1 month ago by Drew
AssMatt
AssMatt
1 month ago
Reply to  Wuffles Cookie

Well, Saturday night IS alright for fighting, after all…

To HD’s credit, the free ticket suggests that there may actually have been a Motorhead fan or two in the crowd, unlike most aging bikers who can afford to attend corporate anniversary parties, who may be described by the line in the article you linked: “those who pretend on weekends to be…rugged, rebellious, road-hardened rockers.” But yeah, Springsteen or the Stones would have been better choices than probably both Elton or Lemmy.

Interesting bit of trivia, thanks for sharing!

SNL-LOL Jr
SNL-LOL Jr
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

Dislike? No. Indifference? Definitely.

Drew
Drew
1 month ago
Reply to  SNL-LOL Jr

Sure, indifference is a perfectly common to a lot of music, and it’s absolutely fair. We’re not all into everything. But I don’t know many musical acts with as few vocal detractors who truly dislike them.

Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
Bongo Friendee Harvey Park
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

Elton John through ~1980? Agree.

Elton John since? GTFO.

Detroit Lightning
Detroit Lightning
1 month ago

Favorite Elton John record!

Stellantis is a dumpster fire!

Chris Stevenson
Chris Stevenson
1 month ago

The automaker came to being as a merger of FCA (itself a merger of Fiat’s brands and Chrysler’s brands) and PSA (itself a merger of Peugeot, Citroën, DS, and Opel).

This is Vauxhall erasure and I won’t stand for it! Oh, who am I kidding, it’s not like GM or PSA cared.

PresterJohn
PresterJohn
1 month ago

Oh man Tumbleweed Connection is the best Elton John album no one knows about. The whole thing was influenced by The Band and Westerns and was in that way a concept album. “My Father’s Gun” is one of my favorite Elton deep cuts along with “Ballad of a Well-Known Gun”.

Automotiveflux
Automotiveflux
1 month ago

Hopefully with the 2025 push for “electrifying the lineup” the Stellantis brands can be brought up to modern times a bit. I’d like to see more 4xe options (Gladiator and Grand Cherokee L as a start). RAM is fine, Jeep is too pricey but fine, Dodge is basically dead, Chrysler is also basically dead, and now that I think about it Fiat is nearly dead also, trim the fat and focus on the good stuff.

Drew
Drew
1 month ago

I’m wrong, right? Tell me I’m wrong. Tell me the Stellantis product that’s going to get everyone excited.

While engine-builders are certainly relevant here, I think that it’s important to remember that you have to be flexible. If the cards and your competition line up such that you can’t continue your strategy, you’ll have to adjust.

The Ramcharger is the big play here. If it pays off, Stellantis could see an upswing. Leverage the Ramcharger to start a line of range-extended vehicles and you can see Stellantis actually stepping into a part of the market that doesn’t have much competition. If they can use a range extender on the Charger/Challenger thing, they could probably sell some gas-focused folks on the instant acceleration of an EV. And they could easily get their work vans set up for local EV use with few tradeoffs, which could sell.

Of course, it’s Stellantis, so I wouldn’t bet on them making the best decisions. But there’s a path if they want to dominate a market segment that has real growth potential.

Ranwhenparked
Ranwhenparked
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

Not launching the ICE Charger as a hybrid or PHEV seems like the wrong move for 2024. Also not sold on the wisdom of mandatory AWD. It’s the most crucial product launch outside of Jeep and Ram that they’ve done in years, mainly because the platform it’s replacing launched during the Bush administration

Drew
Drew
1 month ago
Reply to  Ranwhenparked

Yeah, the choice to go ICE or EV was weird to me. I assumed when they announced that it would be hybrid/EV or range-extended EV/pure EV.

And, yeah, I think going mandatory AWD was unnecessary. At least they’re supposed to have a RWD button, so maybe that decision will work out. But they could have sold a lot of RWD models and shaved some weight.

Stoney got got (potentially)
Stoney got got (potentially)
1 month ago

Went to the Stellantis website to look at all the brands. Saw Opel there and figured that surely they must have an interesting car or two. No sirree. I get that there is big Jeep energy around these parts, but woof. What a shitty portfolio of companies.

Also, Matt, T-Mobile gives the MLB package for free every year. It’s gotta be the best perk in the whole wireless ecosystem. It’s a built-in $14 discount off the bill. That’s tits.

Last edited 1 month ago by Stoney got got (potentially)
Drew
Drew
1 month ago

Verizon used to offer the Disney/ESPN/Hulu bundle, but they’ve started just offering all the benefits as options for an additional price. I’m keeping my old plan as long as I can, and I may end up trying T-Mobile again once they finally take my plan away. It always does have the best perks.

Stoney got got (potentially)
Stoney got got (potentially)
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

I don’t blame you one bit for hanging on to a legacy plan. Mine is so old that sometimes when I call CS, the phone jockeys don’t even know what it is. I pay $50 for what they charge like $85 for now. Unlimited everything like plane wi-fi and international data type stuff all rolled in. As far as all the streaming perks, I don’t really care as the internet exists and there are always ways to see stuff for free.

Drew
Drew
1 month ago

It’s not as much that I want the streaming perks, it’s mostly that the new plans are getting more expensive and including less stuff. The only thing they offer more of on the new plan is tethering, and the amount is already plenty on my plan for what little I do. I’ll take every perk my plan offers (including Google Play Pass, which I would otherwise never get) just because it’s something.

Glutton for Piëch
Glutton for Piëch
1 month ago
Reply to  Drew

Yup. Those crooks forced me to “upgrade” to the new $90/mo plan that’s the exact same as my old $60/mo plan, except $30 more and I have to pay for the Hulu bundle because I *added* a *different* line to add my boyfriend to my plan. Didn’t impact my line at all, but they “couldn’t do it unless I upgraded”.

But, fuck, if Verizon isn’t the only carrier that has service in the boondocks…

Drew
Drew
1 month ago

But, fuck, if Verizon isn’t the only carrier that has service in the boondocks…

Yep. My parents live in a nothing little town and no one gets consistent cell service in town, but Verizon gets service just down the road while the other carriers need a few miles. Last I knew, T-Mobile lost service around 15 miles away (I think that was before the Sprint merger, so they are probably better now, but no one around there will try them again).

Parsko
Parsko
1 month ago

T-Mobile gives the MLB package for free every year

Reallllly???? I need to look into this myself. This would be nice to utilize. I’m currently completely buried in the AWA, myself. I need to finish last night’s game 3 before I watch tonights. Man, is it good!!!!

Last edited 1 month ago by Parsko
Farty McSprinkles
Farty McSprinkles
1 month ago

Prices for new vehicles are astronomically expensive, and people are not going to pay those prices for cars that are shit quality. I think Stellantis makes some of the best looking cars, but the build quality is crap and the long term reliability is crap. Until they fix that, nothing else matters.

Last edited 1 month ago by Farty McSprinkles
Arch Duke Maxyenko
Arch Duke Maxyenko
1 month ago

What Stellantis USA needs right now: a new Dodge Neon (and SRT4), a new 300, a new Durango, a new Pacifica, a Hornet that doesn’t suck, the Jeep Avenger with a different name, a new Chrysler Imperial

Groover
Groover
1 month ago

For Stellantis to “stick the landing” they’d need to get off the ground in the first place

V10omous
V10omous
1 month ago

I wish the 4xe powertrain was more reliable.

I think the JGC 4xe really had/has the potential to be a game changer, but the engineering seems half-baked.

TXJeepGuy
TXJeepGuy
1 month ago
Reply to  V10omous

I’m leasing one and couldn’t agree with you more. Its a GREAT vehicle when everything is working as it should, but its fairly buggy and has had a lot of recalls

V10omous
V10omous
1 month ago
Reply to  TXJeepGuy

I wish I could recommend it to my dad, who is looking for something fuel efficient that is capable of towing occasionally, but I just can’t, given what I’ve read.

TXJeepGuy
TXJeepGuy
1 month ago
Reply to  V10omous

My job changed too so now my EV only drives are more or less limited to running errands; used to commute to work on it. Doing more long highway drives now so my drives are back to mainly gas. If I wasn’t upside down on the lease in it I’d replace it tomorrow.

Alexk98
Alexk98
1 month ago
Reply to  V10omous

I believe it was on this site someone explained that, according to a Jeep service advisor, 4xe is the equation to calculate how long repairs take for these cars, with the e standing for Eternity.

Last edited 1 month ago by Alexk98
Mike B
Mike B
1 month ago
Reply to  V10omous

I feel like the current gen 4XE is just the test phase, with the next gen being the “real” setup.

Alexk98
Alexk98
1 month ago

The all-new, all-electric Jeep® Recon: 100% Jeep; 100% zero emission

But with rumors of Jeep making a Hybrid Recon due to faltering EV demand, we’re veering more into a “60% of the Time Its Electric Every Time“. And it seems to be built for the European market, which means it too, may be illegal in 9 countries. And with removable doors on like a wrangler, it may even have bits of real Jeep in it after all.

Rad Barchetta
Rad Barchetta
1 month ago
Reply to  Alexk98

“Illegal in 9 countries” might actual be a great selling point for it in the US.

MP81
MP81
1 month ago

Don’t worry, all that matters is that Tavares gets an even more undeservedly large salary after laying more people off and running the company into the ground with his gross misunderstanding in how to build vehicles.

Parsko
Parsko
1 month ago
Reply to  MP81

As long as the shareholder gets their dividend!!!!!

Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar
1 month ago
Reply to  MP81

They need to pay their CEO more so the job is attractive to the next bum CEO they are going to hire after firing Tavares. Is Bob Nardelli still alive?

Dogisbadob
Dogisbadob
1 month ago

Stellantis cars are all shit. It’s wonder they’re even still around in the first place. Some of their brands couldn’t even sell at all, even during the pandemic price peak.

Would anybody miss them if they go POOF?

Urban Runabout
Urban Runabout
1 month ago
Reply to  Dogisbadob

A lot of folks would miss Peugeot and Citroen.

Captain Muppet
Captain Muppet
1 month ago
Reply to  Urban Runabout

I miss old Peugeot and Citroen, but not the cars they make now.

Urban Runabout
Urban Runabout
1 month ago
Reply to  Captain Muppet

I rather like the 208 and the new C3
The 508 and C5 are pretty cool too.

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