Home » The 2025 Ram Ramcharger: A Tesla-Sized Battery And A Big Gas Engine Create The Perfect Truck

The 2025 Ram Ramcharger: A Tesla-Sized Battery And A Big Gas Engine Create The Perfect Truck

2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger Tungsten
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The Ramcharger name is back after a 30 year hiatus, and it’s here in the form of a brilliant series-hybrid pickup truck with a big battery and a big V6 gas engine. It’s called the 2025 Ram Ramcharger, and you can think of this plug-in hybrid as the missing link between the regular gas only-powered Ram 1500 and the all-electric Ram 1500 REV, blending electric might with the benefits of internal combustion. While Ram previously teased an electric truck with some sort of range extender, few expected it to be this beautifully executed, melding familiar technology with futuristic propulsion, sports car-rivaling zero-to-60 mph acceleration figures (thanks to 663 horsepower), and a claimed 690 miles of combined range — with about 145 of those being all-electric. Here’s what we know about one of the most exciting pickup truck debuts in decades.

Make no mistake, this thing is classic Chrysler, going in for the kill when other automakers are pondering the status quo, listening to the desires of America, and getting the people going — think the Hellcat engine, the minivan, the Wrangler, and the 1993 Dodge Ram. This new truck could change everything, especially because nobody else is doing what it’s doing.

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A Gas V6 Engine Acts As A Generator For A Big Battery

Ram 1500 Ramcharger Callouts 2Let’s get straight into Ram’s new hybrid pickup. Underneath the 2025 Ram Ramcharger is a massive yet somewhat modest battery pack. Don’t get me wrong, it still features a substantial 92 kWh capacity (huge for a hybrid — it’s about what you’d find in some Tesla Model S variants, and bigger than any Model 3 pack), but that’s far off of the Ram 1500 REV’s 168 kWh base pack.

Still, that’s enough juice to get you an estimated 145 miles as a pure EV alone, and it’s of course plenty of juice to dish out 7.2 kW of battery bank power for tailgates, jobsites, and emergencies. Imagine running your corded tools off of this thing. Mind you, the Ram Ramcharger only runs on a 400-volt architecture, meaning DC fast charging speeds top out at 145 kW (that’ll get you “up to” 50 miles of EV range in just 10 minutes, per Ram). That so-so charging speed may sound like a bummer, but it really isn’t, because there’s another way the Ramcharger keeps moving — just fill it up with gas.

2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger

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Need to tow a questionable car across three or four states? No problem, a gasoline-powered 3.6-liter Pentastar V6 has you covered so you can yank the truck’s 14,000 pounds of towing capacity without worrying too much about range. Payload capacity clocks in at 2,625 pounds, just in case you were wondering.

Oh, and did I mention that this 3.6-liter Pentastar V6 isn’t connected to the wheels in any way? Instead, it just spins a 130kW (174 hp) generator, which can recharge the batteries or dump power to the drive motors. Basically, the Ramcharger is an enormous BMW i3, just without the carbon fiber monocoque.

2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger

The 145 mile range is a ridiculously solid figure for everyday use, but maybe not a headline number in a world of 240-mile EV trucks. Still, Ram does tout a targeted combined range of 690 miles, which should do plenty. Also excessive? Try on 663 horsepower, 615 lb.-ft. of torque, and zero-to-60 mph in 4.4 seconds. Those latter figures come courtesy of a 250 kW motor up front and a 238 kW motor out back (note the independent rear suspension replacing the solid axle found on all gas Ram 1500s to date), with the rear motor featuring a locking differential for when the going gets seriously slippery.

Stealth Wealth

2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger

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Of course, most people probably won’t notice a Ramcharger on the road, chiefly because it looks extremely normal. The taillights and tailgate on higher trims are borrowed directly from the Ram 1500 REV electric pickup truck, while the front end is similar to that on high-end trims of the facelifted gasoline-powered 2025 Ram 1500. The result is a truck that looks, well, like a truck. Big grille up front, big bodysides, and little but taillights, lug nuts, and badges to mark green credentials. Even the inside is pretty normal, now that gasoline-powered Ram 1500s gain an optional 10.25-inch passenger-side screen.

2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger

Mind you, “normal” by Ram standards still means the cabin’s absolutely spectacular. With a hard push upmarket over the past few years, Ram is dominating the “Cowboy Cadillac” segment with rich materials, lush scents, and impressive tech. Seriously, the next time you’re at an auto show, poke your nose into a Ram Longhorn. It smells like a Kardashian’s walk-in closet in there.

While there’s no Longhorn trim on offer, the top dog Tungsten model is mighty enticing. Knurled metallic accents? Check. A sueded headliner? Check. Level 2 hands-free advanced driver assistance? Check. Glass surfaces? Check. A 23-speaker, 1,228-watt Klipsch Reference Premiere audio system. Check. Hang on, is Klipsch still owned by Voxx International? It is? Well, I guess we’ll just have to judge this system with our own ears. Still, with luxuries like these, who needs a Mercedes-Benz EQS anyway?

2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger Tradesman

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Alright, so reveling in luxury is a bit crass considering the cost of living crisis, so let’s walk down the range. There’s the Limited sitting second from the top, then the Laramie, then the more sensible Big Horn, then the fleet-spec Tradesman. I wouldn’t be surprised if the walk-up from Tradesman to Tungsten could swallow an entire truck, but since Ram hasn’t released pricing, we’ll just have to twiddle our thumbs.

Why It Might Be The Perfect Truck

2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger Tungsten

The 2025 Ram Ramcharger offers nearly all of the upsides of an electric pickup truck with none of the downsides. Imagine driving around on electric power nearly all the time, then use the gasoline-powered generator and the robust network of gas stations to road trip and tow. You can juice up at home overnight, travel to work, then run the obligatory after-work errands, then head home on electric power alone. I bet the average person would run the truck on as an EV only for 99% of their usage.

However, if you want to go on a road trip or tow a beached whale back into the sea or just generally explore the corner cases Americans often buy vehicles for, you can because there’s a 3.6-liter V6 shoulder to lean on once you exhaust the electric range.

Hell, this thing might even get better gas mileage than a regular V6 truck, given that the generator can be run in a fixed RPM band for optimal efficiency. Oh, and the range extender could also pay dividends both ways, as a 2020 study published in the UK’s Institute of Engineering and Technology journal found that “Compared to an all-electric in the proposed SHEV configuration the battery peak-to-peak voltage and average and peak power are reduced. These contribute to an improved battery energy usage and potentially lifetime operation.”

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The electric transition won’t be overnight and it definitely won’t be painless, but more plug-in series-hybrid vehicles should make the next decade easier. Ram is certainly on the pulse of now and, depending on both pricing and how the Ramcharger drives, it could have a slam-dunk on its hands.

From Badass Beginnings

We’d be remiss if we didn’t at least talk about the Ramcharger name.

For three generations (well, two in America), the Ramcharger was a Dodge. Basically, it was a cut-down pickup truck all SUV’d-up, then thrust into battle against titans like the Chevrolet K5 Blazer and Ford Bronco. Needless to say, it was awesome and is sorely missed.

First Generation Ramcharger

The first-generation Ramcharger (pictured above) and the second-generation Ramcharger) pictured below both ruled, but their 19-year reign proved just long enough to see the dawn of the four-door SUV. Needless to say, two-door SUV sales never really recovered.

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Second Generation Ramcharger

Oh, and it’s a crying shame that the U.S. never got the third-generation Mexican Ramcharger because just look at it. If this thing isn’t the most kickass use of Caravan taillights, I don’t know what is.

Third Generation Ramcharger

Let’s face it: For most Americans, the Ramcharger name has been dead for 30 years. While Ram has flirted with the Ramcharger name before, it’s usually been emblazoned on wireless charging pads rather than on the outsides of vehicles. Now, it’s back from the dead, and I have some mixed feelings about it.

2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger Bighorn

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It feels a bit weird for Ram to plaster the Ramcharger name on something that isn’t an SUV of some sort. Sure, Jeep cannibalization is a real concern, but this set of badges might take some getting used to. Imagine if Ford had called the F-150 Lightning the Bronco, and you may be able to see where I’m coming from. Whatever it’s called though, the 2025 Ram Ramcharger is the most exciting upcoming pickup truck because it takes electrification and puts a distinctly made-for-America twist on it.

(Photo credits: Ram, Dodge)

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Beatle
Beatle
7 months ago

This is excellent. Now someone needs to make a midsize SHEV pickup. I had a Lightning for 6 weeks before I sold it so I could park in the NOVA suburbs without slamming my door into the car next to me in every parking lot (and vice versa).

Tomato Cards
Tomato Cards
7 months ago

To all the folks who are decrying “two full powertrains,” I just can’t disagree more. This is really a PHEV with actual, useful, full BEV functionality that can be used nationwide, year-round, without compromise. Which is what folks really want in a vehicle and particularly a pickup.

In cold weather, that 70kWh useable will probably provide the 100 miles of all electric range most folks would really like to have. Yes, you may drive less than 40 miles on an average day or whatever. But one of the biggest drawbacks of the small battery PHEVs, notably the Pacifica, is that especially in cold weather they are really operating as a regular hybrid. I am making an assumption here, but I bet this will have proper full-EV capability at any temperature, unlike the other Stellantis PHEVs to date.

The Pentastar is 100% in there for marketability, not because some engineer thought that it would be The Best Generator Engine Ever. Deserved or not (I think it is deserved) the general public likes this engine. The truck buying public just does not like a turbo 4 in a fullsize pickup. This is a really smart move by Ram.

To all the folks saying “vehicles of this size should be banned for the mall drivers!” – sheesh, get over it. I agree with you. But it ain’t gonna happen – like, it is just simply not. ever. going. to. be. a. thing. So meeting the buyer where they are at, instead of providing a vehicle that forces them to compromise, is 100%.

Beatle
Beatle
7 months ago
Reply to  Tomato Cards

Yeah, for a SHEV, you don’t need 140 miles of EV range. Providing a full electric commute is sufficient.

I do wonder if they used a large battery pack to provide the current needed for 600+ HP which is what will sell trucks to most buyers. A smaller battery with an equivalent C rating will be capable of delivering less current. Still, I think a realistic 400 HP would plenty for me in a midsize, and downsizing the pack to 55kwh would allow this, so it would easily fit in a midsize truck.

Dan Bee
Dan Bee
7 months ago

Nice work, Ram. This is the electric pickup truck a lot of America has been waiting for.

XXLTall
XXLTall
7 months ago

So it sounds like they updated the Pacifica hybrid system with 400 volts a bigger battery and another motor. Maybe the Pacifica can be AWD hybrid now also. In a Chrysler fashion its updating older stuff they already have to impressive levels.

Jim Jenkins
Jim Jenkins
7 months ago
Reply to  XXLTall

Completely different deal. The Pacifica hybrid is still a normal hybrid with a bigger battery that you can charge up and the engine is still capable of driving the wheels directly. This thing is more akin to a diesel-electric locomotive. There is no transmission and the engine is connected to a generator that can either charge the battery or send power to the electric motors that are providing propulsion.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
7 months ago

Ram Ramcharger… sounds stupid.

Stellantis, please put the vehicles branded as ‘Ram’ back under the Dodge name.

Thanks.

10001010
10001010
7 months ago

So… is the plugin cable called the Ram Ramcharger Charger?

Boxing Pistons
Boxing Pistons
7 months ago

I’m a bit surprised they went with the pentastar given their push to put that I6 in everything truck..

ADDvanced
ADDvanced
7 months ago
Reply to  Boxing Pistons

Pentastar is a great engine tho, 300hp and 30mpg in most cars. Good combo.

Jim Jenkins
Jim Jenkins
7 months ago
Reply to  Boxing Pistons

The Pentastar is significantly cheaper to produce and they already had an Atkinson cycle one they could borrow from the Pacifica PHEV.

Boxing Pistons
Boxing Pistons
7 months ago
Reply to  Jim Jenkins

Makes sense considering the van application.. would like to understand how a V engine is cheaper than an inline, tho. Are the internals of the Hurricane just that much more beefed up for boost? I would think they could detune it and cheapen it significantly for generator duty, but I obviously don’t know..

Jim Jenkins
Jim Jenkins
7 months ago
Reply to  Boxing Pistons

No turbo, the Penastar doesn’t have exhaust manifolds (just one opening in the head), older so the equipment is paid for, etc. Also, it’s going to be able to make the required 170HP at much lower RPM and much lower stress and likely use less fuel than a 4 cylinder, especially a turbo 4.

JDE
JDE
7 months ago

No mention of the subpar RHO (aka TRX replacement?)

ADDvanced
ADDvanced
7 months ago

On paper, it’s awesome. Great specs! And something i’ve said for a long time…. instead of EVs, just make EVs with a generator. Solves all range anxiety and seems more simple than some of the hybrid complexity.

Couple of concerns tho, this just seems…. real complicated. Roll of the dice with any new drivetrain, but I wonder how this will age.

Secondly, converting ICE to power to motors is so much loss. That said, you could operate the engine at it’s most efficient RPM, and use the battery as a big capacitor to dish out more or charge more depending on grade/headwind/etc.

Something to keep an eye on for sure.

Ottomadiq
Ottomadiq
7 months ago
Reply to  ADDvanced

yeah, TWO ENTIRE powertrains… This isn’t like a i3REX or Volt. Those had small batteries. This is a full gasoline powertrain and a full “Tesla-sized” large pack… yeah. No.

Scoutdude
Scoutdude
7 months ago
Reply to  Ottomadiq

I agree the large battery pack is stupid but it does not have a full ICE powertrain, it has a generator connected to the engine instead of an umpteen speed automatic transmission, transfer case and drive shafts.

Defenestrator
Defenestrator
7 months ago
Reply to  ADDvanced

Yeah, I like the general idea, but I think it’d make even more sense with a battery about half that size and the ability to directly couple the ICE to one set of wheels (either will likely do) for highway cruising like the Volt.

Maxime Laplante
Maxime Laplante
7 months ago
Reply to  Defenestrator

The Volt does not couple to the wheels but it’s not as efficient at highway speeds. A 2 speed gearbox or different ratios for the 2 motors could be the way to get better high speed deficiency, although that could reduce the acceleration.

Ben
Ben
7 months ago

This may very well be my next truck. I’ve been begging for a PHEV and this one looks like a home run. No, I don’t need 666 HP (yes I know, but this is the company that brought us the Hellcat and Demon, so I’m rounding up), but that applies to most EVs on the market these days. High HP electric motors are relatively cheap, so why not?

The only question is whether I can wait until the second model year to let them iron out most of the teething issues they will undoubtedly have (as all new models do, to be fair).

Jim Jenkins
Jim Jenkins
7 months ago
Reply to  Ben

Agreed. My ’19 Accord Hybrid will be hitting ~100k miles by the time this comes out and the Ramcharger would allow me to replace that and my ’02 Supercrew at the same time and I can charge the Ramcharger at work for a completely gas-free commute while still having the range for long roadtrips and towing.

Daniel MacDonald
Daniel MacDonald
7 months ago

690 miles of range-on how much gas, this seems like a crucial missing component of whether or not this is actually efficient. The range alone doesn’t tell me much.

Would be curious to see some discussion of the tech and how it compares to PHEVs as a bridging the gap step that it seems we need more than pure EVs at the moment. And not just in trucks like this seems like good tech for cars potentially? Sadly my impression was that the EPA in their push to go full EV was not giving nearly the manufacturer emissions credits for cars with range extenders as they were full EVs. IIRC the BMW i3 could be had with a much bigger tank for the range extender in europe, making it a more flexible car but they didn’t sell it with the bigger tank here because they wouldn’t get EV emissions credits or something. IDK maybe expecting pragmatism from the EPA isn’t realistic, but it does seem like they’re caught in this weird no-man’s land between regulatory capture and overly zealous greeness.

Blahblahblah123
Blahblahblah123
7 months ago

Is it the perfect truck? That is definitely debatable. It certainly looks like an interesting vehicle addressing a segment of the market. But without knowing the price this is all just hyperbole.
The price will determine whether this product is a smash hit or an also ran. A lot can change with upcoming, not yet announced, competitors before it is even available to the general public.
Time to grab a bag of popcorn and watch what happens.

Piston Slap Yo Mama
Piston Slap Yo Mama
7 months ago

So it’s the same philosophy as the Chevy Volt, writ large. What took so long?

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
7 months ago

That’s quite a glowing article. What fancy place did Stelantis fly you for the reveal?

Harmanx
Harmanx
7 months ago

(A couple of Autopian writers are convinced EVs only achieve perfection if they somehow make use of gasoline.)

Rust Buckets
Rust Buckets
7 months ago
Reply to  Harmanx

And they might be right, for a pickup use case.

Many many many pickup buyers buy pickups to tow a camper trailer across the country, and a full electric pickup just isn’t going to drag a 10k lb camper trailer at 80mph with the AC blasting up the Continental Divide without a battery that costs $200k and four Congolese children. At least not without stopping four times to charge at the nonexistent charging stations in middle of nowhere Wyoming.

Gas engines solve that problem pretty well.

Harmanx
Harmanx
7 months ago

Basically, the Ramcharger is an enormous BMW i3, just without the carbon fiber monocoque.

To be a bit more accurate, it is like an enormous BMW i3 REx. Not all i3s came with the range extender

Detroit-Lightning
Detroit-Lightning
7 months ago

Article really needs to mention that the useable battery capacity around 70kwh…

B3n
B3n
7 months ago

I absolutely love this, I think it’ll be a great product.
I’m only worried about the cost.
Because at this point, I think average people can barely afford 1500-class regular gas-powered trucks anymore.
And financing is becoming more and more difficult as well.
If this is going to be a lot more expensive than the traditional gas powertrain, it will be very difficult to reach breakeven with gas savings.

DadBod
DadBod
7 months ago
Reply to  B3n

I’m worried about the cost + iffy RAM/Stellantis reliability

Last edited 7 months ago by DadBod
Scott Ross
Scott Ross
7 months ago

Its the Chevy Volt in Dodge Truck Form

Thxcolm
Thxcolm
7 months ago
Reply to  Scott Ross

I dig it. Why did Chevy cancel the Volt?

Scott
Scott
7 months ago
Reply to  Thxcolm

Because GM.

The Dude
The Dude
7 months ago

Ugh, it is truly annoying how Chrysler/RAM are the ones offering PHEV vehicles that if not for fears over reliability, I’d seriously consider. First it was the Pacifica in the minivan space, and now this truck. Come on Toyota and Honda, it’s seriously time to expand PHEVs beyond the Prious and Rav4!

Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar
7 months ago
Reply to  The Dude

They might think it is too expensive. The Lexus PHEVs are significantly more expensive than the gasser or regular hybrid models. Too expensive to ever make a financial argument for getting the plug-in. The Prius is probably the best value proposition.

Meanwhile the regular hybrid Lexus RX is like $500 more expensive than the regular gas motor. Seems like a no brainer to get 35 mpg instead of 25 to me.

Fuzzyweis
Fuzzyweis
7 months ago
Reply to  The Dude

Don’t forget the Wrangler PHEV, #1 selling PHEV in America!(last year anyways) They understand the migration to all electric needs this middle step.

Rust Buckets
Rust Buckets
7 months ago

1. The Pentastar has got to be an awful generator engine. There’s a reason there’s no such thing as a v6 generator. If they delete the VVT from the Pentastar that might improve reliability significantly, but is sure seems like it would make more sense to use a derated single turbo or naturally aspirated Hurricane, or a four cylinder. Or less than four cylinders perhaps, it’s not like you can’t buy a large selection of off the shelf generators.

2.Series hybrids/range extended electrics have some major advantages and can really make sense. This has the battery for a solid electric range(145 is a lot) AND the gas engine for solid performance. The whole point of a series hybrid/range extender is to avoid having the expensive big ass battery of a full electric and also avoid an expensive, thirsty, big ass engine.

This vehicle literally produces the emissions of a Tesla and a minivan driving in a convoy down the interstate(nearly, I know you wouldn’t be running both most of the time). If the objective of this vehicle is to reduce environmental impact and emissions, it is an utter failure.

3. This is literally a 3/4 ton, just like the all electric Ram. See those 8 lug wheels? This is a 3/4 ton pickup that will be almost exclusively marketed and sold to people who DO NOT need or are best served by a 3/4 ton pickup. I don’t need to explain why that’s a bad thing.

488Magnum
488Magnum
7 months ago
Reply to  Rust Buckets

To address a few of your points.

  1. Good generator engines have to have a power density at a rated speed to meet durability goals. A gas turbo engine will never accomplish this well at a cost that is acceptable. Diesel can get away with turbos because of low rpm ranges and huge torque. The amount of pentastars in existence to vvt failure is pretty small. My experience owning one has be very good and dependable in a pickup no less.
  2. This is not really a battery extender as its really a series hybrid with the ability to be fully electric. It would be zero emissions for most day to day driving but still be able to make long trips at the drop of a hat with likely lower emission than pure ICE. This is really what most Americans need. I drive 60 miles round trip to work and travel 700 miles home for holidays. My use case for a crew cab pickup is not unique and this would fit those needs perfectly while offering greater performance than my pentastar powered 1500.
  3. Just because it has 8 lug wheels does not make it a 3/4 truck. The extra weight of the battery and other components drives the need for 8 lug wheels. Same with the EV truck. All the ratings are in line with most 1/2 tons.
Rust Buckets
Rust Buckets
7 months ago
Reply to  488Magnum

My point in regard to generators was that a quad cam v6 is massively more complex, expensive, and failure prone than is necessary for generator service. That’s why no generators are v6s, they’re mostly single cam inline engines. A turbocharged gas engine could definitely work as well as a turbo diesel engine for generator service, gas engines don’t actually necessarily produce less torque or at higher rpm than diesels. Or a less complex naturally aspirated gas engine would be good.

Pentastars are known for VVT and lifter issues, although those might get better in this application. Mostly I think it’s a lot more horsepower than is needed. I agree that a hurricane would also not necessarily be well suited to this application, but I think it would be better than a Pentastar.

The difference between a series hybrid and a range extended electric is not clear, but it is significant. A series hybrid is a vehicle that uses electric motors for propulsion, powered by a combustion engine, with little to no battery buffer. This requires an engine with a lot of horsepower(200+, same as a normal gas car). A range extended electric is a vehicle that uses electric motors powered by batteries, with a small onboard generator that charges the batteries just fast enough to maintain cruising speed. This is no more than 50hp.

This vehicle has too much battery capacity to be a series hybrid and too much engine to be a range extended electric. This is a vehicle with two fully functioning drivetrains, either of which is capable of powering the vehicle in almost all situations. This seems awfully wasteful, considering when you’re using it as an electric car you’re lugging around a very expensive and heavy engine, and when you’re using it as a gas car you’re lugging around a very expensive and heavy battery. It would make much more sense to have a plug in series hybrid with 30-50 miles of electric range and a large engine, or to have an electric car with a 40hp onboard generator.

I would argue that if you drive 60mi to work every day and regularly drive 700mi, a 7000+lb crew cab pickup is the single worst vehicle choice you could make, hybrid or otherwise.

Regarding 3/4 ton vs 1/2 ton, this literally has a GVWR and payload capacity in line with typical 3/4 ton pickups. The eight lug hubs and wheels are indicative of the GVWR. As far as I can tell, there is nothing that would make it half ton except the short bed.

Scoutdude
Scoutdude
7 months ago
Reply to  Rust Buckets

I agree that the battery is oversized for the application. Big enough for say 50 or maybe 75 miles makes more sense. Enough for the majority of people’s daily use even when reduced by weather, carrying a load, or local towing and lower cost. Lower cost puts it in reach of more buyers, or leaving them with more money to step up to a higher, more profitable, trim level.

As far as the engine choice goes, it is the Pentastar largely because that is what they have that can generate the target generator load efficiently. That is why a ~300hp engine is being used to generate ~175hp, so they can operate it at or near peak efficiency, likely with the valve timing set for an Atkinson like cycle much but not all of the time, just like most hybrids.

Rust Buckets
Rust Buckets
7 months ago
Reply to  Scoutdude

Because automotive engines are overrated. When it comes to industrial, heavy truck, or marine engines, if it says it’s 200hp that means it can output 200hp, for days straight, efficiently. You know, 200hp.

A car engine that’s rated for 200hp can put out 200hp for up to a few minutes before overheating and sustaining damage, and it will suck fuel when outputting anything north of maybe 140hp.

So that 300hp peak output engine is a 175hp continuous output engine.

Considering horsepower was invented by James Watt specifically for rating the continuous power output of industrial engines, I would argue using horsepower for peak ratings is just incorrect.

Scoutdude
Scoutdude
7 months ago
Reply to  Rust Buckets

But that “industrial” engine could put out more than 200hp with no mechanical changes other than allowing it to rev more. So yeah from their available engines that will meet emissions and durability requirements the Pentastar is the right engine for this job. Too much investment is going to the other parts of this powertrain to justify a new dedicated engine especially considering that predicting demand for what is a new sub segment of vehicle.

Rust Buckets
Rust Buckets
7 months ago
Reply to  Scoutdude

Lol you can’t just “allow it to rev more”, many engines in combines and things will blow up if you rev them higher.

175hp is probably more than it needs anyways(a common theme). Like I said, I think a derated single turbo or naturally aspirated Hurricane(minimal investment) or an off the shelf generator(also minimal investment) would be better suited.

Bizness Comma Nunya
Bizness Comma Nunya
7 months ago

This is very interesting. However I think it’s a bit odd that they are using the pentastar as the range extender vs. the 2.0l turbo 4.

But like most decisions, it’s gotta be cost-related. All the Pentastar tooling has to be amortized by now, and the Pentastar is a pretty good motor (overall).

Also, lots of fleets want sub-10k GVWRs so they don’t need to get their drivers DOT certified. So, hopefully it comes in just under 10k with a useful load, or even as a GVWR downgrade package which is what GM, Ford, and Ram offer fleets now anyways.

TheHairyNug
TheHairyNug
7 months ago

Does anyone use a turbo as a range extender?

Bizness Comma Nunya
Bizness Comma Nunya
7 months ago
Reply to  TheHairyNug

Good question! The Fisker Karmas did (bad example haha). Plug-in hybrid Hyundai SUVs use a 1.6 turbo (that’s a great motor BTW), Mazda’s new CX Hybrid.

Not quite apples to apples, but maybe having no turbo does play in to that. And Pentastars have been beat up enough in Promasters/Ram 1500s, etc.. by large fleets in all climates… so it could be they want to stick with something a little more proven/durable? Although I haven’t heard of major (common) failures with the 2.0t.

Mthew_M
Mthew_M
7 months ago

The CX90 uses a naturally aspirated 2.5, not the turbo one.

Bizness Comma Nunya
Bizness Comma Nunya
7 months ago
Reply to  Mthew_M

Ah, yes, you are correct. It is the 2.5 NA motor.

Waremon0
Waremon0
7 months ago

I think this is a marketing move. Their target market is as wary of newer, smaller turbo power plants as they are EVs. Having a recognizable power plant helps reduce the fear of unknowns about reliability, complexity, and operating costs.

DC45
DC45
7 months ago

I think a turbo 4 is not the ideal generator. For a generator it will run at a constant rpm for maximum power:efficiency combo. Turbo 4 are either running efficiently or making good power.

1franky
1franky
7 months ago

I could see why using a turbo 4 isn’t ideal as a range extender, but per the article the gas engine is driving a 174hp generator which should be entirely doable for a 4 cylinder without a turbo, maybe they figured the cost to redesign the existing turbo4 to a non-turbo variant and get that emissions certified wasn’t worth it vs using the existing v6 given the number they expect to sell.

488Magnum
488Magnum
7 months ago
Reply to  1franky

Big thing is you need to look at engines total power curve and power density for steady state use. I high strung turbo inline 4 can make the power to run the generator but at a much higher rpm than a larger N/A V6. Manufacturers have internal B-life durability goals that play a large role in engineering decisions. Often a larger engine running at a lower power curve will run longer than a smaller engine running at higher power. Engine response is another consideration and turbos are not always know to respond quickly to transient load changes(turbo lag). The other bonus is the base chassis in this case was already designed to accept the 3.6 V6 so design resources could be spend elsewhere making the series hybrid system work.

TheHairyNug
TheHairyNug
7 months ago

I’m glad it’s being made, but I’m not excited by the numbers. Just give me something that gets ~50 miles of range and doesn’t have a billion horsepower to go to 60 in a fraction of a second. It’s guaranteed to be ludicrously expensive

Amschroeder5
Amschroeder5
7 months ago

Gosh crap like this is exactly why trucks need to be regulated out of the hands of mall duty commuters.

90 KWh usable capacity is a full sized car EV with 1/3rd the range, plus an overbuilt V6. If you are trying for a generator backed EV, 50 KWh would have been more than sufficient, even for a truck. Difference between 90 and 150 mile range for commuters is irrelevant.

If you just need backup power, a 150 kW (~200 HP) engine would have been more than enough to keep you going indefinitely at hwy speeds even towing. Maybe they have downrated the pentastar to crazy levels (it is normally a 200-225 kW engine), but there **has** to be a dramatically more efficient engine to use for that purpose.

This screams the excess and stupidity that is the heart of American truck culture.

Now, for actual truck things… generator backed phev trucks are clearly the most ‘actually functional’ trucks. So that is cool, I suppose. But seriously, truck for everything is the most wasteful possible transport option that exists, and this only demonstrates how awful it truly is.

V10omous
V10omous
7 months ago
Reply to  Amschroeder5

The fact you default to kW for your power numbers tells me you aren’t the intended audience for this and you don’t get it.

Who Knows
Who Knows
7 months ago
Reply to  Amschroeder5

Considering that numbers I see are ~120 kW of road load at highway cruise (~60 mph) for a class 8, long haul semi truck, I wouldn’t be surprised if this drivetrain could be retrofit into a semi and usable for many use cases. Maybe not optimal, but could probably drive the truck, especially with adding a 4 speed HD automatic transmission for the electric drive for low speed and starts. Just another example of drivetrains more fitting for class 3-6 commercial vehicles being put into “passenger vehicles”.

Scoutdude
Scoutdude
7 months ago
Reply to  Amschroeder5

I agree that the battery is larger than it should be. For the engine, they want something that produces the needed hp where it is operating efficiently, not where it is making peak power. So yeah a 300hp engine running where it makes 200hp sounds right.

Pat Rich
Pat Rich
7 months ago

Payload capacity clocks in at 2,625 pounds, just in case you were wondering.

Say what? This is a MASSIVE payload for a half ton. This is a great payload for a 3/4 ton. How?! For one, light truck class 2a (half ton) is capped at 8500 lbs, which means this would weigh less than 6000 lbs, which…no.

Who Knows
Who Knows
7 months ago
Reply to  Pat Rich

Considering the wheels show 8 lug nuts, I highly doubt this will be under 8500 pounds despite the 1500 badge. I’d fully expect it to be a heavy, class 2B commercial vehicle, maybe even pushing class 3, just like the hummer and such

Pat Rich
Pat Rich
7 months ago
Reply to  Who Knows

Good catch on the 8-lug. You are probably right.

Mthew_M
Mthew_M
7 months ago
Reply to  Pat Rich

We don’t have the numbers, but, going to assume the V6 and generator weigh much, much less than the other ~100kw of battery that the EV version will have. Boom, there’s your incredible payload! Quite a nice tradeoff, if you ask me.

Scoutdude
Scoutdude
7 months ago
Reply to  Mthew_M

I suspect you are correct.

CEVette
CEVette
7 months ago
Reply to  Pat Rich

Hell, most (all?) of the RAM diesel 2500s have less payload than this. The weight of the diesel engine makes their payload laughably light. Many folks buy “the big diesel 2500” only to be very disappointed when the payload is too low for even a smaller 5th wheel or goose neck trailer.

Frankencamry
Frankencamry
7 months ago
Reply to  Pat Rich

Ram/Dodge has no qualms with slapping a 1500 badge on 3/4 ton trucks. That’s what the 1500 Mega Cab was. GVWR was 8600 or so if memory serves.

Millermatic
Millermatic
7 months ago

The “perfect” truck? No. A great truck, sure. But at an estimated $65-100K? Not perfect.

Rust Buckets
Rust Buckets
7 months ago
Reply to  Millermatic

More like $80-120k if I had to guess

Chronometric
Chronometric
7 months ago

Well nobody is going to say this can’t do “trucky things”. Good solution but it will be very hard to justify the expected cost.

Anthony Magagnoli
Anthony Magagnoli
7 months ago
Reply to  Chronometric

The savings of a 76 kWh reduction in battery capacity may handily outweigh the cost of implementing a run-of-the-mill Pentastar that probably costs them ~$3k to produce. Sure, total implementation cost would be more than that, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s all less than the battery savings.

Chronometric
Chronometric
7 months ago

Yes compared to a full-EV truck. I was comparing to a bare-bones V8 ICE truck.

Anthony Magagnoli
Anthony Magagnoli
7 months ago
Reply to  Chronometric

Yeah, agreed. No one seems to ACTUALLY run the ROI on the fuel savings tech. Show me one that’s less than 150k miles and I’ll be impressed.

Cryptoenologist
Cryptoenologist
7 months ago

So I just ran the ROI of a Silverado Diesel(most fuel efficient option) and a Silverado EV. The EV is about $10k more than the diesel, ignoring incentives. At 100k miles that’s 4200 gallons of diesel vs 53000kWh of electricity. In my area the average price of diesel is $6.035/gal and electricity is $.30/kWh. Which gives a savings of $9500 over 100k miles. So the break even point is just beyond that.

But the thing is- most people can’t make their own gas or diesel, but many people can make their own solar power. Especially people with farms, ranches and businesses.

Anthony Magagnoli
Anthony Magagnoli
7 months ago

I’d also compare it to gas V8, where gas is $3.50/gal. This argument may also work against the diesel at those prices!

Cryptoenologist
Cryptoenologist
7 months ago

So for an area with 3.50/gal gas, electricity is also way cheaper, so using MN rates gas is currently $3.273/gal and electricity is $.1803/kWh. I’ll do the comparison again with V8 5.3L 4wd Silverado. That’s 5900 gallons to go 100k miles, so $19310 in gas over 100k miles, versus $9556 in electricity. So the EV looks slightly better here than the California comparison with $9754 in fuel savings over 100k miles.

And that’s just average. If you are a contractor in an urban area and are driving and towing with lots of stop and go the efficiency gains are way more. And if the EV is eligible for state or federal incentives, the point at which you start saving money drops way down. At $7500 federal you’re looking at 25-30k miles as the break-even point.

Gubbin
Gubbin
7 months ago
Reply to  Chronometric

I can’t figure out the bed length, you need at least 6 feet to do “trucky things” (motorcycles, gravel, lumber, camper) in my world. Otherwise you just have an SUV with a wet, insecure cargo area.
Not sure if you can put a gooseneck or 5th wheel in a 4.5′ shorty bed.

Chronometric
Chronometric
7 months ago
Reply to  Gubbin

Good observation. I was thinking 6 footer but didn’t look closely at the picture. Because of the cost of EV trucks they tend to be loaded “lifestyle” vehicles rather than trucky trucks.

DC45
DC45
7 months ago
Reply to  Gubbin

Current Ram 1500s have a 5′ 7″ small bed, a 6′ 4″ standard bed and an 8′ long bed (only available on 1500 classic tradesman). While the didn’t spec a bed length, this would look to me to be a 5′ 7″ bed.

Gubbin
Gubbin
7 months ago
Reply to  DC45

Thanks. I think a 5’7″ bed would be almost usable.

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