Remember when scrolling through the second-hand car classifieds felt like being unleashed in Willy Wonka’s chocolate factory? There was such a wide selection of used cars available within budget, especially if your budget was on the modest side. Now though, things seem weirdly tight. Actually, things are weirdly tight. Cox Automotive just released a retail pricing support and guess what? The average used car is now the most expensive it’s been in years.
Meanwhile, Lincoln has facelifted the Nautilus and ditched a controversial styling trend, Lucid is giving the Gravity some extra muscle, and the ruggedized-looking crossover trend has come for Nissan’s entry-level Kicks. All this on today’s edition of The Morning Dump.
The Average Used Car Is The Priciest It’s Been Since 2023
Have you looked at the used car classifieds recently and felt like you were living in Bizarro world? While pricing of second-hand cars dipped considerably following new vehicle supply recovery from the chip shortage, it feels like everything’s back up again. Actually, it doesn’t just feel that way; it is that way. Now there’s data to back that hunch up.
Automotive retail software juggernaut Cox Automotive owns something called vAuto, which is a dealer inventory management program. That’s not hugely interesting on its own, but it results in a ton of data, including retail list prices. You can think of this as the trailing indicator to the Manheim Index of wholesale vehicle values’ leading indicator. Unsurprisingly, the report for July was released on Friday, and it shows that asking prices for used cars are higher than they’ve been since the summer of 2023.
Retail used-vehicle sales increased modestly from June in July, bucking typical seasonal trends as inventory edged higher, according to Cox Automotive’s analysis of vAuto Live Market View data. The used-vehicle market otherwise remained stable in July, with average listing prices essentially unchanged for a second consecutive month at $27,028, though still 6% higher than a year ago.
“Essentially unchanged” is an understatement considering June’s average asking price worked out to $27,027. Still, not only is that figure finding stability in what is a historically slow month, it’s $1,631 higher than it was in 2025. Given how we’ve moved past the production constraints of 2020 and post-chip-shortage cars are starting to come in as three-year lease returns, what gives?
Well, a lot. Since 2022, America has lost about a quarter-million units worth of used vehicle inventory, and a combination of factors is at play. Outside of the electric vehicle space, leasing’s been in the dumps for the past five years or so, and while the number of three-year-old used cars for sale has been increasing, a drought of lease returns compared to historical norms means late-model-used supply is especially tight and pricey. Historically, a situation like this would likely result in some used-car buyers cross-shopping affordable new models, but we’re not exactly in a cheap-new-car arm’s race in North America. Combining strong second-hand demand with expensive new vehicle transaction prices has resulted in huge knock-on effects reaching far down the list of used car age brackets. As Cox Automotive wrote:
Prices rose across every age group year over year, with the steepest gains occurring among the older, lower-priced vehicles. Listing prices for vehicles 15 years and older rose 13.9% compared with a 3% increase for vehicles under five years old. A larger share of younger vehicles in the sales mix also contributed to the higher overall average.
Perhaps the most painful result is the sharp decline in used vehicles for sale under $15,000. That price bracket makes up just 16.4% of all used-vehicle inventory, down from 20.6% a year ago. We’ve already seen that Americans are holding onto their cars longer, and with some buyers being priced out of late-model vehicles, the pressure on older models is immense. Add it all up, and not only is it harder to afford a used vehicle now, but the conditions for a traditional path back to normal haven’t really existed in quite a while. While a glut of off-lease EVs over the next few years should ease the trend of high prices slightly, the era of widespread cheap 15-year-old used cars is, to a degree, over. Hold on to what you have if you can, folks.
Trend Reversal
Speaking of trends, let’s talk about one of the more divisive styling elements that’s gained a lot of traction over the past half-decade or so: The front light bar. Sometimes it’s done well, like the continuous bar of pixel-shaped elements across the front of the Hyundai Ioniq 9. Most of the time, though, it’s not, with gaps between the headlights and the central lighting element making things look cheap. The good news is that we seem to be slowly moving past that latter execution. Case in point: Lincoln has facelifted the Nautilus and, in the process, thrown the light bar across the grille in the bin.
Okay, so the updated Nautilus does feature a wide black bezel around a now-even-larger upper grille, but it can also be optioned with a fascia that’s far cleaner than that of the outgoing car. A simple rectangular lower grille, a pared-back headlamp treatment, and a new hood with a flatter leading edge combine to look unusually unfussy. Out back, a new two-bar taillamp treatment pairs with a simpler valence. Other than some new color options, the interior’s basically unchanged, and choices of powertrain remain a pure-combustion two-liter turbocharged inline-four and a variant of that same engine with a hybrid system. There’s nothing really groundbreaking about the 2027 Lincoln Nautilus, but the elimination of the front light bar is rather pleasing. Can more automakers with suboptimally integrated front light bars please take note?
Remove Before Flight
While we’re on the subject of posh crossovers, if you want a really quick one, there’s a new three-row option for speed merchants. At Monterey Car Week, Lucid unveiled the Gravity GT-S, and it’s the most potent seven-seater you can buy. We’re talking 1,070 horsepower, which the marque claims is good for zero-to-60 MPH in 3.1 seconds. On paper, that’s not quite as quick as the Rivian R1S quad-motor, but it should still give your whole family the speed giggles. Even the dog.
Great power requires great control, so every Gravity GT-S will come equipped with the Dynamic Handling Package. This bundle of four-wheel steering and three-chamber air ride already gives the Gravity Grand Touring impressive agility, so it should be able to handle the output of the GT-S no problem. While this isn’t an utterly bonkers Sapphire model, it’s also not priced like an Air Sapphire. The Gravity GT-S starts at $125,900 plus freight (likely an extra $1,850 if Lucid doesn’t hike that fee by the fourth quarter), and only has four extra-cost options beyond premium colors: Tan “Tahoe” leather for $1,250, third-row seating for $2,900, upgraded advanced driver assistance for $6,750, and a $950 towing package. All things considered, that’s not bad, undercutting the Porsche Cayenne S Electric while adding the option of a genuinely spacious third row.
Can You Kick It?
The Otterboxed crossover trend isn’t going away anytime soon. Instead, it’s spreading, sinking its tendrils into high-riding unibody vehicles, big and small alike. Knowing that people will gladly sacrifice a little quietness to look cool, Nissan has given the Kicks the Rock Creek treatment, and it’s weirdly adorable. Yes, Nissan’s littlest U.S.-market crossover now comes in a trim level that includes a new grille, new valences, unique 18-inch wheels, all-wheel drive, and a roof rack made of proportionally enormous tubes. The result? Awww.
Granted, you don’t get all-terrain tires, skid plates, or increased ground clearance in the Kicks SV Rock Creek, but that won’t matter to a lot of people. All-wheel drive, an off-road mode just in case, and easy-clean upholstery are more than enough to do some mildly dirty work. Probably best not to drive this thing over the rocks or up the creek, but it should get you to the trailhead. The Kicks Rock Creek gets you some nice amenities too, like heated seats, a heated steering wheel, a 360-degree camera system, and rear seat heater ducts. However, there is a catch: At $30,385 including freight, it’s $50 more than the slightly more upscale SR trim level. Losing the big digital cluster but getting some heated surfaces? In the snow belt, that’s still a deal though.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
Even on desk duty, it’s been a long and exciting night with all the Monterey Car Week debuts. You’ve probably already seen the Mustang Dark Horse SC Convertible piece I smashed out around midnight, but there’s more where that came from. A proper late writing sesh continuing into the morning calls for something rhythmic. Something like Overmono’s “Diamond Cut.” Yeah, that hits the spot.
The Big Question:
With used car pricing so expensive compared with historical norms, how long do you reckon you can hold onto your current daily driver?
Top graphic image: Honda
My daily is a 2014 Mazda3 hatch 2.0 with a 6 spd manual. Currently about 144k on it, and I don’t see why I can’t get it to go at least 250k. It has Android auto decent A/C and I added a roof rack and hitch for the bike rack, so it checks every box I need for at least the next ten years assuming gas doesn’t go absolutely nuts. So…. probably not giving it up outside of an accident or something taking it out of commission.
I bought the family car 2020 Highlander Hybrid with the intention of it lasting an additional 200k miles at least (currently 86k), so outside of getting hit I don’t think I’ll be in the market for a loooooong time, unless I find myself with a glut of cash that’s enough to dump into a “fun” car. But that’s unlikely and a project car is far down the list, so it would have to be a big windfall…
Current daily driver is 11 years old with ~86k miles on it.
This little Mazda3 surprised me in a bad way with some expensive and untimely repairs (fuel tank, exhaust manifold) in the last few years, but has also received a fair bit of TLC in terms of ‘optional’ maintenance (coolant, trans fluid, spark plugs) recently.
As a current ‘sunk cost fallacy’ practitioner, I’m hoping for another 5 years from it at least.
As for the commentary writ large, I suspect used car values were very much held down during the 2010s by a large number of low-price cars that were basically dumped onto the market at break-even (or slight loss) to their manufacturers at the time.
The 2020s proved the end of that for reasons. Without the flood of lower-end cars to hold the line on pricing in the used market, the used market followed the new car market upwards.
I’ll try for 15 years. That depends on how things go with rust, being up here in the land of the tin worm. The Fluid Film will slow it to a crawl. One car is a Toyota with the practically unkillable 2.5/6-speed auto combination and the other is a newish Tesla. I’ll enjoy both until I: A: drive the wheels off them or B: something else forces my hand.
TBQ: Until someone else crashes into me.
I had a 12 year old Mazda 3 with 220k that I had just went through in detail (replaced fuel injectors, cleaned intake valves, replaced vacuum lines, new suspension all around, etc.) and I was excited for the next 200k.
Then some asshat decided to turn in front of me totaling the car.
I’m not limited in any way other than the probability of encountering a clueless jerk… so not that long really.
This is my exact scenario (2014 Mazda3 hatch with 144k) and I’m dreading it ever getting hit. Crossing my fingers it doesn’t meet the same fate as yours – it’s truly an excellent car and meets all my needs for at least the next ten years.
My goal is to hit at least 300k on my ’14 Camry Hybrid. I’m at 267k so far. I plan to keep the ’13 Highlander with 167k for at least another 5 years. I’m considering replacing my partner’s ’07 Corolla even though it only has 137k. Pennsylvania is starting to take it’s toll on that car. The interior looks like new, but it’s starting to get a bit crusty in a few places.
The important thing is they are all PAID for.
Well my current daily is 14 years old so as long as Jeep dealers take the Chrysler care lifetime bumper to bumper I will keep it until the upper mid west salty snow rusts it away.
I would rather buy a small new car with a warranty For $27K than pay $27K for a used POS. Like a Hyundai Venue for $22K.
I have always bought used, don’t think I have spent more than $17k on a car ever. Most cars I have bought in the last 20 years or so were in the $10-12k range.
TBQ – I bought a Model 3 new in 2023 with the LFP battery. Based off the 500k mile battery life expectancy and my annual milage, it should be my daily driver for the next 20+ years until I retire. Even if the battery lasts half that, it still gets me into retirement.
That wheel choice on the Nautilus is quite bold and I… somehow kinda like it???
Agreed.
And while the cleaned up fascia is nice – the piano-black plastic is unwelcome.
“how long do you reckon you can hold onto your current daily driver?”
I’m keeping my 17 year old, 135K miles Mercedes (which is running just fine because annual scheduled maintenance) until the wheels fall off and I can’t pay for them to be put back on anymore.
I’ve stocked up on cheap and reliable hybrids and trucks. I have some vehicles that are basically doaner but still operate. The only newer cars I’ll buy from now on will probably be ev. The last few cars I’ve bought for regular use have been ev. Other then that I might stock up on gen 4 rams when their prices come down. The retail dealers 5 year or less used car has gone up. Everything else is all over the place. I’ve seen mid 2000s Toyota hybrids prices come back to earth as well as many other mid 2000s platforms.
I’ve been eyeing used Ioniq 5s for a minute. They’ve gone up a bit. 6 months ago they appeared to be listed around 20k. Now they’re 25k. I’m in the position to make that happen, but it would have been nice to keep that extra. I’d probably wait another six months normally (and likely find that things somehow got worse), but I have a friend who needs a car and has enough to pay me what I would get in trade on my ’17 Bolt, but not what they’re going for on a lot or private sale. Likely will be getting a new-to-me Hyundai in the next week or so.
Ionic 5 has alot of pressures on it. Seems like many of the people returning their cheap ev leases are running towards it because it’s just good. Apparently a good number people returning their ionic 5s are buying new because of the new $35k starting price and their residuals are high. They dipped a little bit with the 4th of July gas lows. Probably people not buying cars because vacation too. Leaf pricing is starting to come back to earth. So are some of the stranger evs that people aren’t looking as much.
So many of the used dealers are doing this strange market pricing to try to follow the market but still seem overpriced. The ionic 5 might have $200 to $500 discount from where they listed them now because they are sitting longer. Then they will price the fresh one on the lot better and it might sell quicker. Its all data driven by the wrong data.
I want to stick with having an electric car in the fleet, but want to be able to do road-trips that are multi-state without spending a third of my time charging. There are a few options for that, but the Hyundai/Kia e-gmp vehicles seem like the best, non-luxury options for a variety of reasons. The Ioniq 5 has the closest thing to a bench seat I’ve seen in a while that’s not a pickup, which isn’t something most people seem to be clamoring for. I have a car-nervous dog who does a lot better if he can sit with his people while driving. In our van, we just have one person sit in the back with him and that works well. But for a trip with one person, the big guy relaxes and shifts the car out of gear in anything with a console shifter. He’s really leggy.The Ioniq 5 has nothing in the central console except for cupholders. Add in the 800V system for quite swift fast charging (Chinese vehicles aside) and ~300 miles of range, and it’s really the only vehicle I’m looking at.
I bought the Bolt back in ’21 when used car prices were truly absurd. 6 months before that I could have saved 5k if I’d pulled the trigger sooner, much like the Ioniq 5 today. And about a year later I could have bought a new Bolt for less than I paid for a used one. I may just be fated to be in the position for a new-to-me vehicle at less than ideal times.
I got in the same boat with a Solterra I probably could have saved $3k to $5k if I had forced the issue and acted when I wanted to. By the time I was able to act it was maybe about $8k to $10k difference in new to 3 year old 11k to 24k mile used units. I gave the new serious thought if it was going to be long road tripped alot I probably would have gone new or pushed go e-gmp harder. It worked out with a deal I’m ok with I was able to basically straight trade a Forester. There are less of them but I’ve seen some decent deals on ionic 6 again.
I’d buy an ioniq6 tomorrow is I wasn’t deathly afraid of ICCU issues
I test drove the Ioniq 6 yesterday. Pretty much identical driving experience (as expected). The center console in the 5, along with the flexibility of the hatch still has me going for the 5. The ICCU issue is definitely in my mind, though. I have my backup car (a ’96 HiAce) if needed. Fingers crossed on that one. At least it’s under warranty…
TBQ: My 2013 Taurus is nearing 14 yo at 150k miles. It runs perfect, it looks perfect, it doesn’t constantly beep at me and gets good gas mileage. Still loving it, too. I’ll hold on to it for at least few more years but maybe forever since it won’t be worth all that much, even if I do decide to get a brand new ride in maybe 2-3 years.
At least now I can ignore all the people bemoaning “that’s overpriced” in the SBSD.
I’m keeping the FR-S as long as I can stand it. If anything, I’d upgrade to a GR86.
TBQ:
Well, it looks like the 26 year old Excursion and 13 year old Optima will be sticking it out for a few more years.
TBQ: I split daily duties between my ’20 86 and ’02 Tundra, and might sell the 86 soon if I can find a good deal on a Miata this winter and the financials work out. Since the Tundra will hopefully run until the end of time with oil changes and preemptively replacing the timing belt and ball joints, It’ll stay in the fleet as long as it’s able to be driven.
Of course used cars are expensive, new cars suck ass
New cars are also expensive.
Everything flows downhill.
I hate how harsh the ride is on the Fiesta ST as I get older, but it’s too damn reliable and drive too few miles (18 daily) to justify the financial expenditure of getting something else.
That depends greatly on what happens with Iran. As someone who was shopping EVs shortly before the don’t-call-it-a-war started, prices have increased substantially. I’m not sure they’re pulling down the averages as much as you might expect, especially newer off-lease ones.
Whether that will last is anyone’s guess, but it’s increasingly clear that Iran is to the US as Ukraine is to Russia. As my grandpa always said: don’t start something you can’t finish. It’s pretty clear we started something in Iran without any idea how to finish it. Whatever happens, we’re going to pay for that mistake for a good long while.
I’m increasingly convinced that I just don’t like this styling trend. Yeah, all of the ones with gaps look bad, but I don’t even like the continuous ones that much. Which is weird, because I like full-width tail lights, but maybe I don’t like the cyclopean look that they give the “face” of the car?
In any case, two thumbs way up for Ford dropping that.
I was planning to drive it to about 250k, which should be sometime late next year. It’s been pretty reliable, even at nearly 20 years and well north of 200k, but I’m increasingly concerned about something important rusting out and being either impossible or impractical to fix.
Whether I follow through on my plan to replace it next year will depend on what the car market looks like at the time. Unless things are pretty bad, I’ll probably pull the trigger though. I kept my previous truck longer than I intended and that went very poorly, and rust-related failures were a big part of that.
I’m starting to see some less sought after off lease EVs going back to around where they were before. But with gas prices going back up again could be a repeat. At a certain point like it was for many years with many “cpo” programs you might be able get a better deal on a new car. It’s getting closer on EVs. The bolt is pretty much there. Especially if you are looking at euv to new bolt. Some other models it’s some serious thinking if you should just bite the bullet and go new.
Yeah, I like the new Bolt a lot, but after looking at one I’m 99% sure it’s too small for what I do with this car. And incentives on the Equinox have basically disappeared. I’m sure there are deals on stuff like the old Bees Forks, but that’s only because nobody wants them. 🙂
Yeah that’s my problem with the bolt too. I don’t need another small car. Dealers in texas are taking $6k to $7k off of them.
There are some 2022 -2023 Konas out there for around ~$15k with around 35k miles. There are so many low milage leases 35k would be about right for a ice car but everyone is looking for sub 20k miles. You can find the higher mileage ionic 5s still under $17k because people aren’t buying them. You can pick up an older model 3 for under $10k. Or can get a few year old one with maybe 65k for under $18k.
Vinfast vf8 with low 20s are going for ~ $17k. Some even have some kind of free dc fast charging tied to them from special promos from new. Gen 2 leafs ago going back to about ~$15k for 10k miles. Aryia are going back to about ~20k for under 20k miles.
TBQ: If history is any indication, my daily will be around for another decade or more. But I’d love to ditch it before then because there are some things I detest. However, I have issues with money in that I’m paranoid about spending it and won’t get a new car before I need to.
Agreed on all points. Our last DD did the job for twelve years and our 2020 should hit that mark without a fuss, especially now that kid has gone off to school; that said, there are some features my wife would LOVE to have, so we could go either way.
Yeah, I’m in a holding onto cash mode right now. I’m making a few targeted improvements around the house but not splurging on vacations, etc…
I have two “dailies” and two “not dailies”.
Crosstrek and GR Corolla are daily, I have snow tires for both, and drive both. Crosstrek paid off very early, and the GR is on track to be early as well. And stick around the fleet for the foreseeable future.
The Crosstrek might get replaced with a Slate in a year or two, who knows?
TBQ: My ’22 CX-30 Turbo I bought new and was just paid off a few months ago. It’s still under 32k miles, so I fully intend on keeping it until I need something larger. I see no reason I’d move on until at least 2029 at this rate, unless the R3X is both performant and cheap enough.
TBQ: I’m keeping my paid off cars for the rest of time. They’re not “connected” and I like that. I hope to be able to keep them in fine running operation for the rest of my life.
I’m feeling gaslit on used car pricing.
Between the commentary here on used cars, and Matt’s claim that you’re getting more on your trade-in (conflicting with headlines that we’re more underwater than ever on our cars), where are we on affordability scales?
If you are trading a compact hybrid crossover for something the dealers can’t sell, you are living like a king. We are in the golden age of Rav4 hybrid for WRX swaps.
Getting more for your RAV4 on trade in, but you’re underwater on it, so you get a used WRX which will also be, somehow, a higher price?
It’s like saying your home’s value has gone up, so you should sell and buy a new home – before realizing that it’s all gone up and you’re no further ahead.
While I’m only partially serious, if you bought a Rav4 or CR-V hybrid in the last few years, you could probably get back what you paid for it assuming you didn’t get completely screwed while dealers were throwing several thousand on the hood of WRXs not long ago. So the scenario of trading a Rav4 hybrid and getting a WRX all while lowering the amount owed on your car is not that far fetched.
We are exactly where people in the business said we would be in 2020. This is a supply and demand problem.
2015 to 2019 the US market was buying 17 to 17.5 million new vehicles per year. manufacturers were overproducing and then slapping big incentives on the hood to move metal and offering 0% financing so people could get the payment they wanted.
2020: BOOM – COVID hits, auto plants shut down and millions of cars don’t get built. 2020 sales dropped to 14.5 million. 2.5 million new vehicles didn’t get built and sold so they don’t exist to sell today as used cars.
2021: Little bump to 15 million because for a year people can’t travel or go to restaurants and they have stimulus money burning a hole in their pockets
2022: Down to 13.7 million sales. Higher interest rates, massive parts shortages, stimulus tap gets shut off = sales way down.
2023: 15.6
2024: 15.9
End of the day about 11.5 million vehicles didn’t get sold in the years since COVID. Almost 70% of new car buyers sell their cars within 5 years. We can expect the shortage of used cars trail the shortage of new cars. Personally I expect next year to be worse for used cars and then prices get better as that shortage rolls through the used car market in a wave. We had a similar but smaller wave after the 2008 / 2009 recession when fewer cars got built and sold and cash for clunkers sent almost 700K used vehicles to scrap yards.
One thing that appears to be a bit different between 2009 and 2020 is that some automakers have held the line and resisted the urge to go back to overproducing vehicles and then apply big discounts to sell them. Toyota and Honda have been especially good at the balance of having enough cars on the lots to keep the customers coming and sales flowing but not enough that they need huge incentives.
I think some of the blame should be placed on the doorsteps of the EPA, and the manufacturers who prioritized high cost/margin vehicles & trims over more affordable ones and those buyers are now priced out of the new market and are competing for used vehicles.
Why the EPA? Manufacturers had been hitting the CAFE targets and like for like vehicles are getting cheaper even as fuel economy goes up.
Automakers have discontinued unprofitable or low profit models and trims. That goes hand in hand with controlling days of inventory. There is no reason to overproduce and likewise there is no reason to make a car you are basically giving away.
Customers are not loyal to brands anymore. For the general industry it is about a coin flip as to whether a vehicle owner will buy their next car from the same brand.
Maybe because CAFE targets led to increasingly unreliable ways to save gas being added to a car like stop start, wet timing belts etc..
A. Stop / Start is not unreliable.
B. US CAFE targets are low (globally speaking) and easy to meet with hybrid technology. Which is simpler to do than trying to add a bunch of technology to a regular gas engine that each save a fraction of a percent. (Things like wet belts, variable displacement, 10 speed autos, etc, etc)
A Camry does 50 mpg with a simple NA engine paired with two electric motors and a planetary gearset. (which eliminate the need for the alternator and starter). The Civic does the same without even the planetary gearset.
1. I would argue that having auto stop/start is unreliable compared to the alternative of not having it. It adds complexity and cost.
2. I agree hybrids are better than cramming a bunch of tech into a car. But that is not what happened. Instead practically every automaker went for increasingly complex solutions that cost more and increase price and repair costs. This likely led to more expensive cars (less new buyers) and more cars being totaled (higher insurance repair costs or mechanically).
The U.S. CAFE was set to be 51.3 so even your Camry example was not enough to meet that target. Toyota could have figured out how to get 2 more mpg but everyone else would have tried even more rediculous solutions.
1..Stop / Start is 25 year old technology at this point. It is long proven to be reliable. As to complexity, we are talking about coding not extra parts. As to cost, yes it cost a bit more upfront due to more robust components and that software work but the cost savings quickly pay back in fuel savings. (Assuming the owner uses the function – if not they just have a more robust starter.)
2..Again, the small upfront costs pay back in fuel savings. Also like for like cars cheaper today than 30 years ago so that is not the reason some people can’t afford to buy a new car. A 1995 Corolla cost 21 weeks of income and got 27 mpg. A 2025 cost 14 weeks of income and gets 34 mpg. A buyer today can by a 50 mpg Corolla Hybrid and still have money in their back compared to a base 1995 Corolla.
3..This is a very common misconception but CAFE does not equal EPA MPG on the window sticker. CAFE is based on the original test formulation from the 70’s. The EPA MPG formula has been adjusted several times over the last 4 decades and today EPA MPG is about 25% lower than CAFE MPG. So 51 mpg CAFE = 38 mpg EPA. A 50 mpg Camry far exceeds the CAFE requirement and earns credits to offset other vehicle that fall below their targets.
Also there is no one CAFE target. Every vehicle sold has their own target based on footprint and vehicle type. Every automaker has their own requirement based on the product mix of vehicles the sold in a year.
That headline 51 mpg number also nowhere near reality because it is based on the assumption that the vehicle mix sold in the USA with be 60% cars and 40% light trucks which was the mix when the footprint rule first started. However, last year the actually product mix was about 20% cars / 80% light trucks.
CAFE can be very confusing and both sides of the argument like to keep the public confused. On side to claim from fuel economy gains than actually are happening and the other side to make it seem like the goal is impossible to meet.
Stop start can actually make the design simpler. If you are using a combination alternator motor *very* mild hybrid setup you can eliminate the traditional starter.
Then you eliminate the bendix drive, the ring gear, the flex plate.
And you can get a handful of horsepower and a bunch of zero rpm torque. I can’t see any down side. I’m toying with the idea of adding one of those to a car just for the low end torque, it’s a 1974 Jenson with a Lotus 907 engine so I don’t know about stop start, but it seems like a fun experiment if I see one at the pick and pull.
Make it really simple, just on/off and see what happens. An extra 140 nm of torque would be fun.
Stop start can be just a fancy alternator and other than some software it can actually be simpler than traditional starters.
A belt-alternator starter (BAS) or belt starter generator (BSG) is no more complicated than a plain old alternator, and you could get rid of the starter, the starter solenoid, the Bendix drive the ring gear and the flex plate if you felt like it
If it were on account of cafe, lower lighter cars would be cheaper to make and get better fuel economy.
The manufacturers just use CAFE as a scapegoat. Cars have gotten heavier and more powerful while meeting the regulations, just think how much better they could be with 2/3 the weight and half the drag.
As for wet belt engines, they aare kind of a dumb idea if you expect them to last beyond the warranty. If all you care about is a reasonable failure rate covered by warranty, smaller packaging, and lower noise, plus being cheaper, they make perfect sense Of course, the only people that think like that or the manufacturers.
They didn’t account for inflation, so that might be one thing that causes mental conflict.
I didn’t know Triumph the Insult Comic Dog was a member of Overmono.
Apparently he, too, owes more on his car than it’s worth.
I paid more for my newest ride than I have for any other three of my previous cars, combined. I saved up for it for years and it’s the newest car I have owned since the 80s…but damn.
I feel pretty bad for somebody needing a car that hasn’t been able to sock some money away. It’s crazy.
Just looked up my Mazda3 on Autotrader to see what the market looks like. Looks like around $15kish with the highest being $17k with 70k miles. In 2019, I paid $18.5k as a 1 year old CPO with 7500 miles. So with just under 90k miles on the clock, I’ve lost only around $3k in value…. That’s stupid. I feel lucky for getting it when I did.
The car I bought is the same price it was when I bought it. Another one exactly like mine, same year, same color, same options package. One year older, exact same price.
I bought a 2014 Mazda 3 (30k mi) in 2016 for $13k. [totaled in 2026 🙁 ]
I bought a 2015 Mazda 3 (80k mi) in 2025 for $15k
I looked for another in early 2026, and anything within 300mi of me, <10 years old, and <$20k, had >120k miles. It was kind of crazy.
So I bought a 2017 Chevy Volt (80k mi) with a newly replaced battery in 2026 for $13k.
Yikes!!! I’m almost grateful for getting T-boned in 2019, forcing my hand to buy a new(er) car. Saved me from that inflation pain!