Good morning, Autopians! It’s another Two-Door Tuesday as we look at a pair of sporty coupes from opposite sides of the Pacific Ocean built in the same year. But first, let’s see how yesterday’s vans did:
Bit of a toss-up, but the Ford has it. Not surprised; to buy a VW van you have to really want a VW van. A Ford Aerostar is more of a casual “oh look, a van” purchase. But I don’t think either seller will have trouble unloading them.
Now, for today’s choices, I need you to cast your mind back to 1983. (If your mind wasn’t yet in existence in ’83, just pretend.) Cheers was on TV, Def Leppard’s masterful album Pyromania was in record stores, record stores existed, and every manufacturer offered at least one sporty two-door coupe intended for daily regular use. Most offered more than one, in different sizes. Chevy’s Camaro was one year into its radical third-generation redesign, and Toyota’s second-generation Celica Supra (yes, it was still the Celica Supra) was also celebrating its first birthday. And to a ten-year-old in the suburbs, both made the future look like a very bright place indeed.
Thirty-nine years later, we find these two, derelict and forlorn, in the Seattle area. Both sound like they’re just a whisker away from running, but both are as far removed from their glory days as the protagonist of a Bruce Springsteen song. Let’s see which one you’d rather bring back.
1983 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 – $1,995
Engine/drivetrain: 5.0 liter V8, 5 speed manual, RWD
Location: Snohomish, WA
Odometer reading: 123,000 miles
Runs/drives? Not quite
The Chevy Camaro, and the third-generation of it in particular, seems to be the butt of a great many largely undeserved jokes. It’s dismissed as a “redneck car,” a teenage hooligan’s plaything, not anything any serious car-lover would ever consider. My guess is that most of those people have never driven one of these cars. Yes, the interior squeaks and rattles everywhere. Yes, if it has T-tops, your head is going to get wet. But it’s cheap, has a V8, handles better than you think, and is a nice clean style that still looks sharp today. What’s not to like?
This Camaro is the top-of-the-line for ’83 Z28 model, equipped with a 305 cubic inch Chevy small-block V8. This car has the high-output (190 horsepower, a lot for the early ’80s) version, with a good old Quadrajet four-barrel carb in place of the troublesome “Cross-Fire” double throttle-body fuel injection. (One gearhead friend of mine referred to it as “Cease-Fire Injection,” but I’m pretty sure he heard it somewhere else; he wasn’t clever enough to come up with that on his own.) This engine was only available with a five-speed manual.
The pictures we get aren’t great, but on the outside this Camaro looks mighty clean. And the engine bay is tidy as well. The interior is described as “gross but definitely cleanable,” which worries me. [Editor’s Note: I mean technically, anything is “cleanable.” – JT] I hope it’s not too trashed inside, because otherwise, this looks like a good candidate for some freshening up. The seller says it ran two years ago, but has a bad ignition switch. If that’s the only thing wrong with it apart from the unknown interior, it’s definitely worth a look.
This era of Camaro has another interesting bit of history hiding in the dashboard as well. You can just barely make it out in this photo:
It has an 85 MPH speedometer; even though the law that required them had ended a year or two earlier, cars designed for the mandate stuck with the 85 limit for years after. To take advantage of the other half of the dial, GM made the speedometer needle double-ended, and put MPH on one side of the gauge and KM/H on the other side, instead of superimposing one scale over the other like most cars. Neat, huh? [Editor’s Note: Very! – JT]
1983 Toyota Celica Supra – $1,000
Engine/drivetrain: 2.8 liter DOHC inline 6, 4 speed automatic, RWD
Location: Marysville, WA
Odometer reading: 182,000 miles
Runs/drives? Turns over but won’t start
Meanwhile, in Japan, Toyota was sowing the seeds of a legend. The Supra wouldn’t really come into its own for a few more years, when it came out from under the shadow of the lesser Celica, but all the elements were there: a twin-cam inline six, great handling, and lots of gadgets.
This Supra is equipped with a digital dashboard including a trip computer, apparently a rare option in the US. It also has a four-speed automatic, the first-ever electronically controlled automatic transmission. It has two shift modes: Power and Normal, selectable via a button near the shifter. Nothing earth-shaking now, of course, but heady stuff in 1983.
This car is a little rough. It looks like it has been sitting a long time, based on the cobwebs on the shifter, and the interior is a bit scruffy. Outside, things are better, but not perfect: there is a little rust, and some minor damage near one of those weird rear side marker lights. [Editor’s Note: I always loved those rear side markers. It’s so rare to see a side marker lamp given so much stylistic attention, including sheet metal stampings! They were like little auxiliary rocket engines. – JT] The light itself is also broken. The seller says it turns over but won’t quite start; it could be as easy as fresh gas, or it could be any number of far more serious maladies. There’s only one way to find out, and it will cost you a grand.
This could be a nice little project, as long as it doesn’t take too much to get it running and you don’t expect perfection. Leave it scruffy, clean up the cobwebs, and enjoy.
And there you have them: one brutish throwback, and one glimpse of things to come. A little troubleshooting and some elbow grease would help either one. It’s all a matter of which one you connect with.
Like everyone else I really wanted to vote Supra, but in the end voted for the manual.
Teenage me always wanted the supra. 5 speed definitely preferred but still the auto version was miles beyond mullet maro. Reviled even by merica only crowd where I grew up as a soso engine surrounded by a crap load of cheap plastic. The supra even has 2 tone paint. Could probably find a manual to swap in without too much trouble.
Supra FTW… this was a no brainer. Great project car, and swapping in the manny tranny and it’s friend the fun pedal is a bit of work, but doable. It likely has the 5M-GE in it, which, as we all know is the big brother to the legendary 2JZ. I’m guessing you’ll have to redo the head gasket and change out any other rubber stuff such as hoses and maybe some NVH stuff like the engine mounts, and once you have that basically restored, the sky is the limit in terms of what other power-enhancing mods you might want to do here. The block is as solid as they come and can handle some pretty high compression ratios if so desired (or drop it down a bit to slap a big turbo on it). While this ain’t the Trueno AE86 from Initial D, it will likely best the Camaro as soon as the steering wheel needs to be used. Besides, I couldn’t afford to also keep enough mullet wax on hand if i got the small block wonder. I just could not bring myself to ever have another malaise era GM – whose slogan in the 80’s was “Engineered by Accountants” I do believe. I still suffer from PTSD due to a terrible co-dependence relationship with a carbureted 2.8L V6 in my ’85 Celebrity Eurosport (at least it was the wagon and not the sedan).
I had an ’86 Eurosport wagon! Fuel injection made a big difference.
I’m with you, this is my favorite gen of Supra, the idea that it’s the current year and an 80s top tier Japanese car with all four fenders is for sale at $1000, is impressive enough, to think people would pass it up because it’s an auto, is ridiculous. If people want to pick the Camaro, fine, do it, but don’t use the fact the Supra is an auto be your excuse.
Renault had been making electronically controlled automatic transmissions for 14 years in 1983.
I’ve always liked the looks of this generation Celica and Camaro, so this one is enough of a toss-up that I just picked the one with the manual transmission.
I’m not usually “that guy” to say things like this, but whoever’s voting Camaro: you’re wrong.
I can speak from experience. I had a 1982 Toyota Supra (actually, Celica Supra if you want to be anal) and it was a GREAT car. The style was rad as hell, the ride was wonderful. It could definitely be described as an early sports-tourer. A smooth, balanced inline six that had adequate, even generous torque down low, good handling, and an automatic transmission that was as tough as it was able to fade into the background during the drive. It did its job and got out of the way.
One of my fondest memories was driving my Celica Supra in the snow. It had absolutely no business handling that well, but it was fun. You could easily get the tail under control, but it was able to let loose enough to remind you it was RWD. I loved that car and I regret getting rid of it (for a 1993 Jaguar XJ6 in British Racing Green, which in its own right wasn’t bad, but not a fair exchange).
Whoever prefaces a statement with “I’m not usually XYZ”, or “I don’t mean to be XYZ” is usually XYZ. Haha. Seriously, though, I do dig the Supra. I just know myself, and I would get consumed with it. That thing needs a LOT of work, and you’re not gonna convince me that all of those parts are easy to source. For me, I was going for the car I could easily clean up, and have some cheap fun driving more or less as-is for a bit before moving on to another interesting car.
Heh, you’re not wrong. Kind of like telling someone, “No offense, but…” then you proceed to insult their appearance, their car, and their mother.
Many years ago, I had a beat up 84/85 P-type Supra. It wasn’t pretty. It was an automatic. It cost me $200. But it ran correctly every single time! That thing was reliable!
The same thing can’t be said about any GM I’ve owned (which is only a 90s v6 4×4 S-10)
My favorite car I’ve ever owned was my 1983 Celica GT notchback. The only things that would have made it any better would have been… a hatchback and the straight 6 from the Supra.
Meanwhile, forty years later, I’m *still* pissed at GM for replacing the 2nd-gen F-body with this damn thing. It’s my least favorite generation of my very favorite car (well, the platform mate to my very favorite car – see profile pic).
I’ll take the Supra, and the cost difference in parts, please.
That gen Supra was THE car, as far as young me was concerned. The Camaro redesign was definitely intriguing “for a Chevy”, but man I thought the style and gizmos coming out of Japan were so interesting. It’s remarkable to think that Toyota was once such a *cool* car manufacturer — for an entire decade. Today there is not one vehicle in their entire North American lineup that appeals to me, or is demonstrably better than any competing vehicle.
FWIW my dad looked at the Camaro but decided on the Monte Carlo SS, which had that same Z28 powertrain, but in a car that was actually comfortable. He loved that thing — in between the Check Engine light hijinks, anyway.
I wonder if under the right circumstances those Camaros could catch fire with the Hipsters who would then drive the prices up. Maybe if it was brown…
those Camaro’s are already catching the next gen’s eyes. this one is actually very clean and unmolested for that price. this one would make for a really good 2000 ish 6.0 LS swap, but the overall originality of this one might mean it could be made to run, washed and then tucked away until the prices become unobtanium like a 78 Z or TA is becoming now. The current Camaro’s days are likely numbered, so they will likely become popular again as classics shortly.
I don’t care that the Supra has a slush box. I still really like this style. I want it
The stick puts the Camaro over the line for me. But let’s not diminish what “gross but definitely cleanable” means in the context of sitting for over a year with a leaky t-top in Snohomish. We are talking about mold. So much mold! I’m assuming that they took windex and a towel to to gauge cluster while holding their breath.
I live in the South. Every trailer up in the woods has one of these non-running Camaros growing on their property. I refuse to be Joe Dirt. And an automatic roached out Supra is also a no-go zone.
Sorry, I had to sit this one out.
Started reading with the intention of voting for the Celica Supra, which I’ve always thought was a great car. But the generally terrible condition, slush box and undoubtedly troublesome digital dash pushed me over to Team “Camero”. That engine bay looks remarkably fresh and the paint doesn’t look too awful, either. If the interior’s too bad, I’ll just hire DT to clean out the mouse poop.
Same. I was thinking that only a fool would take the Camaro over a Supra. Buuuuut, I would rather have the stickshift and the celica Supra is not the best Supra.
It is absolutely the better 1983 sports coupe, though. Even with an automatic.
Based upon my own experiences with an L-type Celica Supra, you’ve got nothing to worry about with that digital dash.
I’m in the same boat. At the headline I *knew* I’d be voting Celica Supra. I’ve driven both of these, the Camaro in auto and manual, the Celica Supra in manual only, and my preference for the Toyota could have survived either the condition or the auto, but not both. Also, if we take it as a given that we’re going to be driving either of these in near crap condition I think the Camaro has more giggles in it while being a shit-box. Reconditioned to near new or better, the Toyota would take the win, but that’s not going to happen. The Camaro will break more often, but it will always be easier to fix.
Camaro all the way.
Cheap parts and easy to work on.
Camaro for sure. While I’m a Mustang guy, I’m really a fan of V8s, manuals, and RWD…that combo never quite goes out of style.
Also, the parts situation on the Supra is probably dicey, and I’m a little scared by what’s under that dash cover. Those things tended to cover gigantic cracks even in back in the day.
Also, I kinda like that the Camaro’s rear hatch is known for having the largest automotive glass ever made.
I was prepared to be all in on the Celica Supra, but it’s an auto. On the other hand the “gross” interior of the Z28 without pictures to assess is highly disconcerting (is it gross in the same way the interior of the Supra looks kind of gross, or is it several layers of mold and a family of raccoons gross). Either one of these in theory could be a good candidate for a project car, but both appear to be shit box poster children. I am going to say Z28 (honestly I just flipped a coin in this one).
My buddy has a spare W58 and a factory service manual, so I’m going Celica Supra on this one.
I voted Supra because I still miss the ’85 I had. Regret getting rid of it now. Plus I’m no Chevy fan. 🙂
One of the toughest choices in a while! Strong case for either, but it’s the Supra for me.
Camaro for me: it’s a manual, and I was way into these in HS. (Cringe) Ever since, I’ve wanted to drive a decent example and see what the experience is like. In the ‘90s, I swapped my 4wd Subaru for a buddy’s trashed ‘87 for a weekend and was underwhelmed by the saggy plastic, bogging, and noisy suspension.
To be fair, he didn’t like my tinny, under-powered wagon, so we both were glad to trade back.
If the Celica was a manual, then I’d probably save the $995 and choose it. But a 4spd auto, even with a KITT-like “Turbo-Boost” mode just doesn’t do it for me. Factor in that most pieces of the Z28 will be findable in junkyards across the nation, as well as aftermarket parts galore, it will be far easier to clean up and keep running.
Tough one today. The Camaro is way more common thus not as exciting, but that also means it will be easier to fix/maintain. Out of the two, it looks like the better choice if you are looking for something to clean up, get running, and have some fun with for awhile without being compelled to fully restore. The Toyota is very cool, and unique, and deserves to be restored. It is going to be a commitment, given its rarity and the nightmare sourcing some of these special bits will be. I wonder if half that fancy digital stuff works, and if not, can you even get it anymore. Long story short, I went Camaro.
I’d normally take the Supra any time of the week, but a slush in a coupe is a big NO. Camaro it is, to my own bewilderment.
That was my thought process too. Reading the title was ready to click Toyota. After reading the description I’m clicking Chevy. Yes, a transmission swap is possible. But do I really want to spend hours looking for all the parts when I could easily swap in a more powerful motor to the Camaro and enjoy some t-top driving?
Plus with doing absolutely no research my gut says that there is a much larger aftermarket for the Camaro so that’s a plus right there.
^^THIS^^
Oh for the love of the 80’s and pop up headlights; pity about the transmission. And a little voice inside my head said don’t look back, you can never look back.
The Camaro’s build quality is on par with Tesla LOL
Improved seals for the T-tops came in 89
The Supra has a digital dash, which is cool
digital dash is sort of cool if it works, many do not anymore, and repairing them is not the simplest thing, however the Z has tried and true gages that can be upgraded easily if digitals are desired.
Stick beats auto. Especially if it’s been sitting a while.
A wet-dream for Mullet lovers or a sleek, Japanese Corvette wannabe. I’d take the Supra.