Home » The $25,000 Car Is Disappearing

The $25,000 Car Is Disappearing

2019 Nissan Rogue

Everyone loves to focus on the topline Average Transaction Price (ATP) number, and I’m guilty of the same. It’s somewhat terrifying to say that the ATP is now regularly at or above $50,000.  That is, to some degree, a story of the higher end of the market, which is dragging prices upwards. It’s the disappearance of the lower-end of the market that I think is more worrying.

New data shows that the under-$25,000 car transaction, which made up 21% of the market in 2019, has collapsed by 75% to just 4.7% last year. I’ll get into why that is and what it means to start The Morning Dump. You’d think this would make the used car market a more valuable place to be as a seller, but that doesn’t seem to be working out for Hertz. At least Hertz can sell cars. California automakers might be locked out if they don’t get emergency relief from automakers regarding a new feature to help protect individuals from stalking.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

That’s heavy, so I’m going to end with a story about cars and iced novelties.

Where Have All The B-Segment Cars Gone?

I like charts, so here’s a chart:
Pricing Distribution 2019 Vs 2025

Nope. I do not like this chart. Our pals at Edmunds have a new report out on affordability and, uh, there isn’t much. Comparing the 2025 market to the pre-pandemic market, you can see that the fat part of the market that existed under $30,000 has shifted a lot. COVID was a period of rising inflation, of course, as well as rampant trimflation.

It’s more than that, though, as segments are just disappearing:

Even the segments built for budget buyers have shifted. In 2019, 85% of compact cars sold for $25,000 or less. By 2025, that share had fallen to 37%. Subcompact cars were the last true foothold for buyers watching every dollar, but even those have now been predominantly discontinued (Mitsubishi Mirage, Nissan Versa, Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, etc.). More than half of all subcompact cars sold below $20,000 in 2019. In 2025, fewer than 1 in 4 of the few remaining ones did.

For a first-time buyer, a recent college graduate or a single-income household, those numbers tell a difficult story. The new-car market has moved on without them.

The single biggest chunk of the market just six years ago was the sub-$35,000 segment, now it’s less than a third of the total.  I’ve written about this before, but Cars.com  has pointed out that building these cheap cars in the United States is tough, which is why few of them are built here; tariffs are making this worse:

Inventory of new vehicles priced under $30,000 — the most tariff-sensitive segment — averaged 13.6% share in the first half of 2025. This is down significantly from 2019, when entry-level vehicles made up 38% of the market and reflects the third consecutive month of declines. With 92% of these vehicles built outside of the U.S., tariffs are disproportionately affecting this entry-level tier, which relies almost entirely on foreign-built vehicles.

We lost the Fit, the Mirage, and the Versa, as well as the Nissan Rogue Sport and the Ford Escape. The Kia Soul is also gone. It’s been rough.

So, what’s there to look forward to? Obviously, David drove the Slate Truck and that’ll come in under $30,000 and is built in America. At that price you’re going to have just the basics, of course. Edmunds actually remarked on this in their report:

Slate is making a $25,000 bet that drivers still want something simple. Our data show the market quietly walked away from that price years ago, so this is a real test of how much affordability still matters to today’s buyers. The base pricing is the headline, but the entry-level price point is paired with an unconventional build and a powertrain that is proven harder to sell today. The real question is whether the enticing price alone can overcome that.”

Rising new prices seem to bring prices up for used cars as well, so what’s happening at Hertz?

ATP Meets DPU At Hertz

A white Polestar 2 parked next to a Hertz rental agency sign.
Photo credit: Polestar

Hey, I get to write about DPU again. I love to write about DPU. This is Depreciation Per Unit, and it’s one-half of how Hertz looks at the money it’s making or losing from buying, renting, and selling cars (RPU is the other side of this, and it stands for Revenue Per Unit). Hertz got all excited about EVs and, in the hype, purchased a bunch of them, which, combined with a pandemic, seriously screwed the company.

Prices for used vehicles are holding steady and, in newer cars like the ones Hertz resells, those are going up, as Cox Automotive mentioned in their mid-year review:

When we look at the trend on the average retail list price for the top 50 models in the coveted 3-year-old age group, we can see the average price has strengthened, increasing 3% YoY despite sales volumes running a bit lower than last year’s torrid pace. And the strength in pricing for the 3YO bucket appears to be growing as Q2 unfolds, with the gap between the 2026 trendline increasing vs 2025. Further, we see retail price growth holding generally positive across most other age groups as well.

But that’s not what’s happening at Hertz. An SEC-filing, via Bloomberg, shows the company sees DPU as a problem:

Although the second quarter of 2026 has not yet concluded, Hertz Global Holdings, Inc. (the “Company,” “we,” “us” or “our”) currently expects its second quarter results for fleet size, revenue, RPD and rental days will align with, or slightly exceed, its previous expectations due to healthy demand and better than anticipated capacity utilization with second quarter to date year-over-year growth in RPD increasing above the growth trend in the first quarter. Current unexpected softness in the used car market caused us to realize losses on the sale of vehicles in May 2026 compared to gains in April 2026, which will negatively impact net DPU per month in the quarter. Based on this recent trend in used car sales, we now believe our second quarter net DPU per month will be approximately $300. As a result, our Adjusted Corporate EBITDA is expected to be in the $50-$80 million range, which is within our margin expectations but towards the lower end of our second quarter range.

I guess I’m going to have to wait for the full explanation from Hertz, but I’m curious why DPU is dropping in an otherwise decently strong used car market. What’s going on here? I’m open to theories. Do they have a lower fleet number and thus more miles per vehicle? Vehicle mix?

Automakers Plead With California To Pass Legislation So They Can Keep Selling Cars

Cadillac Gm Onstar 19972
Source: GM

I’m grateful that my vehicle can alert the authorities in the event of a crash, but it does sometimes feel like all of this tracking creates a situation that’s a bit of an inversion of Truman Capote’s maxim that the worst part about living outside the law is you no longer have the protection of it. The worst part about living inside the modern surveillance sphere is that you can no longer get away from it.

This is especially true of victims of domestic violence who fear, often with good reason, that a partner or spouse could use the tracking equipment within their devices to find and harm them. A modern car is a connected device, and California passed a law stating that no vehicle could be sold that doesn’t allow someone to turn off all this stuff.

Automakers, so far, have complied with the digital version of this, wherein an individual can shut down digital access. The law also requires automakers to have a way to do this within the vehicle, and that’s where the issue is.

Per Reuters:

A group representing major automakers warned June 23 that car companies may be forced to halt sales of both new and used vehicles in California on July 1 unless the state delays vehicle technology rules that aim to prevent perpetrators of domestic violence from tracking survivors.

The Alliance for Automotive Innovation, which represents General Motors, Toyota, Hyundai and most other automakers, said unless a legislative proposal is signed into law by July 1, “there is substantial risk that auto sales in California will be suspended.”

The group said automakers are implementing the domestic violence victim protections required under the 2024 law, “but compliance with some elements of the law is impossible this year.”

As you all know, car development moves slowly, so it doesn’t seem unreasonable that it might take automakers a little longer to get this done.

Test Drive An AION, Get An Ice Cream

Aion Delivers Uk's Most Comprehensive New Car Warranty 1 Large
Photo: Aion

We rarely talk about Aion, which is a brand of Chinese automaker GAC, and is currently selling electric family vehicles in the UK. One of its literally cool features is the CoolHot Box, which is “a generous 6.6-litre temperature-controlled compartment with the capacity to keep several tubs of ice cream frozen, drinks cold or takeaways hot. It can operate between -15 degrees to +50 degrees Celsius. It comes as part of the AION V’s optional Premium Pack.”

I’m pretty sure we turned my high school buddy’s Toyota Previa into a CoolHot Box after he got a three-disc Trip Hop collection sophomore year.

As a way to support the vehicle, anyone who test drives one in the UK will get an ice cream from the CoolHot Box. Does anyone know what kind of ice cream this is?

Aion V Is The Coolest Test Drive In Britain Image 2 Large
Source: Aion

Some kind of chocolate thing and a strawberry mango something?

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

I made the reference above, so I had to turn up the Paula Cole and blast “Where have all the cowboys gone” right? The song is pretty clearly meant to be sarcastic, though I’m not sure everyone got the message.

The Big Question

What’s the best iced novelty treat you can reasonably eat in a car?

Top photo: Nissan

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Sackofcheese
Sackofcheese
1 day ago

TBQ: Cookout Oreo Cheesecake Milkshake. Not officially on the menu but I have never had an issue with them making me one. If you haven’t experienced a cookout tray, you are missing out on the best deal in fast food. My go to order is Big Double Burger, Ranch Chicken Wrap, and cajun fries, plus a Cheerwine for $7.99. You can swap the drink out with a shake for $1 more

MaximillianMeen
Member
MaximillianMeen
1 day ago

TBQ: Whataburger’s Dr. Pepper shake. Shakes are the best car-based frozen treats due to single-handed consumption and self-contained protection against melting. And Whataburger’s Doc Pep shakes are the best fast-food shakes.

Cheap Bastard
Member
Cheap Bastard
1 day ago

building these cheap cars in the United States is tough, which is why few of them are built here; tariffs are making this worse

So don’t. Yield this market to cheap Chinese imports if American markers aren’t going to serve it. As long as these imports meet US safety and emissions standards what’s the problem?

FndrStrat06
FndrStrat06
1 day ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

The problem is that people will start buying cheap Chinese cars instead of American cars. The automakers and their politician puppets won’t stand for it.

Cheap Bastard
Member
Cheap Bastard
22 hours ago
Reply to  FndrStrat06

The flaw in that argument is someone who can only afford a $15k Chinese city car isn’t or can’t be in the market for a $60k luxobarge

SukhoiRomantic
SukhoiRomantic
21 hours ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

The threat is that the market rapidly accepts that cheap Chinese cars are actually pretty good, then tries their more expensive options and buys those as well. Happening here in Aus. People are cross shopping 60k BYDS and other brands against 90k Audis and BMWs and Mercedes and those more expensive Chinese cars are doing really well. Of course we don’t have any domestic car manufacturing anymore so its no biggy just a win for the consumer.

Cheap Bastard
Member
Cheap Bastard
20 hours ago
Reply to  SukhoiRomantic

Easy solution to that; a steeply tiered tarriff system. 0% for the cheapest cars American manufacturers refuse to make but adjusted such that the products American manufacturers DO make are in the ballpark. Those cheap cars however have to meet high energy efficiency and low emissions metrics so hybrids and EVs.

That tariff money however should only be spent on energy conserving public transit systems and putting in bicycle lanes.

TheJWT
TheJWT
1 day ago

I don’t understand how $25,000 is particularly cheap these days. I have what I think is a decent enough job, no kids, no student loans… But my fiancee and I are currently buying a several year old Mazda 3, and even at a hair over $20k I don’t see how we could afford much more than that.

And the correct answer is an ICEE

Baker Stuzzen
Member
Baker Stuzzen
1 day ago
Reply to  TheJWT

I guess it depends on your definition of “afford”?

If you are alive and legally entitled to use a pile of stuff, then I supposed you can technically afford that pile of stuff. That doesn’t mean you can continue to do so indefinitely, or acquire the use of more stuff, or keep what you have if literally anything changes.

EDIT: Nestle Drumsticks

Last edited 1 day ago by Baker Stuzzen
Dan Parker
Dan Parker
1 day ago
Reply to  TheJWT

There’s a difference between “afford” and “pay for”. I think people tend toward the most they can pay for with cars since there’s ego involved.

A palleta is almost always a winner if the weather justifies it.

Jdoubledub
Member
Jdoubledub
1 day ago

Toll House Ice Cream Cookie Sandwich. Always my go to at 7-11.

DialMforMiata
Member
DialMforMiata
1 day ago

TBQ: In a car? Probably a salted caramel and brownie Concrete Mixer from Culver’s. In my car? If you want something frozen and refreshing you can suck on a damn ice cube. I’m not cleaning up your mess.

Urban Runabout
Member
Urban Runabout
1 day ago

What’s the best iced novelty treat you can reasonably eat in a car?”

When I was a boy, it used to be an A&W Rootbeer float – delivered in a frosty-cold mug on an orange tray hung from the driver’s side window.

Then it was It’s-Its in the parking lot of a 49’ers or Giant’s game at Candlestick.

Today tho?
No food in my car.

Jdoubledub
Member
Jdoubledub
1 day ago
Reply to  Urban Runabout

It’s-It’s in a car is unhinged! Even eating on the couch is borderline because that chocolate coating shatters like crazy not to mention the cookie crumbles.

4jim
4jim
1 day ago

I miss small cheap cars, Yes the poor can buy used but without small cheap new cars being sold the poor need to buy every older more broken big used cars they cannot afford to maintain. I wish there were more small cheap cars. I will be shopping for one when I am retired.

Who Knows
Member
Who Knows
1 day ago
Reply to  4jim

I’ve been wondering what the used car market will look like in a decade or so. Will it be mostly large, complicated, inefficient vehicles with excessive electronics that are failing? Or will there still be some more basic vehicles without really high running costs? Will the market somewhat flip from the new market today, where the currently new $30k vehicles will hold their value, and the currently new $80+k vehicles will be worth next to nothing?

4jim
4jim
1 day ago
Reply to  Who Knows

Great question, considering people are not making or buying basic practical cars, I think the used car market will be filled with expensive old broken down boat anchors.

4jim
4jim
1 day ago

Betty’s Pies in Two Harbor’s MN will dump an entire slice of pie into a milkshake so you can drive and have ice cream and pie with a straw. I have done is a bunch driving home from camping.

https://www.bettyspies.com/menu

Knowonelse
Member
Knowonelse
22 hours ago
Reply to  4jim

Ikedas in Auburn CA offers a Pie Shake. Grab a pie slice from their wide selection of pies and they will add it to your shake flavor of choice. Oh, so good.

https://www.ikedas.com/

4jim
4jim
1 day ago

“What’s the best iced novelty treat you can reasonably eat in a car?”

NOT a banana split. I watched a guy go from a busy 4 lane road and merge onto the highway watching a movie on his dash mounted phone eating a banana split with it on one hand and a spoon in the other.

When I got home I listed my motorcycle for sale.

Urban Runabout
Member
Urban Runabout
1 day ago
Reply to  4jim

However the Banana Splits were excellent drivers.

One banana, two banana, three banana, four
Four bananas make a split, so do many more
Over hill and highway the Banana Buggies go
Come along to bring you the Banana Splits show

Tra-la-la, La-la-la-la
Tra-la-la, La-la-la-la”

Albert Ferrer
Member
Albert Ferrer
1 day ago

“Where Have All The B-Segment Cars Gone?”

They are here, dominating the market.

“ We lost the Fit, the Mirage, and the Versa, as well as the Nissan Rogue Sport and the Ford Escape. The Kia Soul is also gone. It’s been rough.”

Of all of those the only real B-segment cars are the Jazz and the Soul and Versa.

The Mirage is between A and B segments and the others are C-segment crossovers.

Jay Mcleod
Jay Mcleod
1 day ago

“We lost the Fit, the Mirage, and the Versa, as well as the Nissan Rogue Sport and the Ford Escape. The Kia Soul is also gone. It’s been rough.”

Has it?

No one now wants to be seen as “poor” which is what buying a cheap new car now signifies.

D-dub
Member
D-dub
1 day ago
Reply to  Jay Mcleod

I’ve always associated cheap new cars with teens/ early 20s kids with well off parents. Actual poor people (like i was at that age) drive old cars.

Jay Mcleod
Jay Mcleod
1 day ago
Reply to  D-dub

Yup. I drove the same when I was a poor youth. Old VW diesel rabbits et al.

No one over the age of 30 goes down to buy the cheap car.

Another reason the Slate will fail.

TK-421
TK-421
1 day ago
Reply to  Jay Mcleod

59 and considering the Slate BECAUSE it’s cheap and low options.

Jay Mcleod
Jay Mcleod
1 day ago
Reply to  TK-421

I like it too.

But no one who reads this blog is a normal car owner.

Anonymous Person
Anonymous Person
23 hours ago
Reply to  Jay Mcleod

No one over the age of 30 goes down to buy the cheap car.

We specifically ordered our 2024 Trax LS to get the ‘cheap car’. Plus we wanted analog gauges, silver wheels, and an actual ignition key. We had no desire for anything more. I was in my 50s when we ordered it.

I’m 55 now, and I would also be very interested in the ‘cheap truck’ Slate specifically because it’s inexpensive and still available with a regular cab and crank windows.

So there are still older people who go down to stealerships to order cheap cars.

Jay Mcleod
Jay Mcleod
22 hours ago

Yeah, all good stuff to order in my mind. And I’m an old man who dailies a Miata.

Again, normal car consumers are not on this blog. We are all weirdos here.

Normies want screens all over, super happy hi-tech push button everything, 4 door high riding SUVs or pickups, and have zero interest in what’s under the hood as long as it’s quick.

Countless people I’ve known have never opened the hood of their car. Why should they?

Anonymous Person
Anonymous Person
1 day ago
Reply to  Jay Mcleod

I disagree when it comes to the 2nd-gen Trax. It looks much nicer and more expensive than its price point. We get many compliments on ours, and we only paid $22,905 for ours in 2024.

2024 Trax LS

Edrummer106
Edrummer106
23 hours ago

That kind of bolsters what Jay is saying though. The Trax looks far nicer and more expensive. If it still looked like the first gen one I don’t think we’d be seeing as many as we do. (I own a 2025 Trax 1LT and it’s the best “non-enthusiast” car I’ve owned in a long, long time)

TK-421
TK-421
1 day ago

Chocolate peanut butter milkshakes have a straw.

Data
Data
1 day ago
Reply to  TK-421

And then you give yourself an aneurysm trying to suck that peanut up the straw.

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
1 day ago
Reply to  TK-421

Trying to lick the peanut butter off the end of your nose has to be THE worst driving distraction.

Anonymous Person
Anonymous Person
1 day ago

The Big Question
What’s the best iced novelty treat you can reasonably eat in a car?

A cherry-dipped chocolate/vanilla twist cone from Dairy Queen.

Those are the best. Cherry over chocolate on one side and cherry over vanilla on the other. It doesn’t get much better than that on a hot summer day – mess be damned.

1st gear: The 2nd-generation Trax LS with the LS convenience and Driver confidence packages is still one of the best sub-$25K automotive deals out there in 2026.

Monroney Label (edit: can’t link directly to Monroney – click on window sticker in link)

Last edited 1 day ago by Anonymous Person
BB 2 wheels > 4
Member
BB 2 wheels > 4
1 day ago

I can certainly say I have never listened to country in my hotboxes.

Cloud Shouter
Cloud Shouter
1 day ago

I counter your song of the day with Kasey Musgrave’s Everybody wants to be a Cowboy.

TheDrunkenWrench
Member
TheDrunkenWrench
1 day ago

Matt. You make a Trip Hop reference and then don’t use any Trip Hop songs as your “What I’m listening to”?!

Where’s the Portishead? Massive Attack? Not even some Sneaker Pimps?

Son, I am disappoint.

Also, an Ice Cream Sandwich is always a winner for easily eaten on the go.

Last edited 1 day ago by TheDrunkenWrench
Spikedlemon
Spikedlemon
1 day ago

Heck, the whole Tank Girl Soundtrack is right there.

My Dying Bride did a lovely cover of Portishead’s Roads that’s in my standard rotation.

But right now I’m down a rabbit hole listening to PJ Harvey.

TheDrunkenWrench
Member
TheDrunkenWrench
1 day ago
Reply to  Spikedlemon

Ugh, Tank Girl is on my “how have I not watched this yet?” list.

Spikedlemon
Spikedlemon
1 day ago

I definitely had a thing for Lori Petty back then.

Slower Louder
Member
Slower Louder
15 hours ago
Reply to  Spikedlemon

Here for Polly Jean.

James McHenry
Member
James McHenry
1 day ago

Tbq: hard to say, but ice cream treats with candy/cookies blended in (Dairy Queen Blizzard, Culvers Concrete Mixer, et.al.) are often served in cups with raised lids, and long plastic spoons, so spillage/drippage should be minimal. They’re regular soft drink cups too, so great for cupholders. I imagine these are more convenient for motoring and less messy than treats served in cones, on sticks, or as sandwiches between cookies or cake.

Buzz
Buzz
1 day ago
Reply to  James McHenry

As a driver, a spoon is no good. Too much dexterity required and you basically need to use both hands, one for the spoon and one for the container.

As a passenger, it’s better than an ice cream cone for sure.

James McHenry
Member
James McHenry
1 day ago
Reply to  Buzz

I mean, I drive stick anyway. If I eat in the car, I’m parked. As, really, you should be. No distraction.

Mechjaz
Member
Mechjaz
1 day ago
Reply to  James McHenry

> I drive stick anyway

A Popsicle man, through and through

James McHenry
Member
James McHenry
1 day ago
Reply to  Mechjaz

…fine. should have kept my mouth shut.

Mechjaz
Member
Mechjaz
1 day ago
Reply to  James McHenry

I was just messing with you. Eating anything more complex than a candy bar is off limits, and I’m personally usually on the bike anyway so I’m not eating anything at all unless I’m completely stopped. I certainly don’t want to encounter the driver that thinks they can eat a milkshake with a spoon safely while I’m in the bike, either.

My Other Car is a Tetanus Shot
Member
My Other Car is a Tetanus Shot
1 day ago
Reply to  James McHenry

“Reasonably eat in a car.”

I’m going to operate under the presumption one is not driving said car, because most food and driving is a bad idea. About the only thing I’ll tolerate for driving is a beverage of some sort on the highway, because long slogs.

Iced novelty treats tend to be messy, so if I’m dripping them everywhere, might as well do that on a surface that isn’t going to absorb it (i.e. Outside)

So, inside a car? Blizzard, because containment, as you mention.

James McHenry
Member
James McHenry
22 hours ago

Yes, yes, the implication is that the person eating is not driving, but apparently I’m such a bad communicator that everyone thinks the opposite.

Buzz
Buzz
1 day ago

TBQ: Tillamookies.

End of discussion.

RAMbunctious
RAMbunctious
1 day ago

The 25K car disappearing reminds me a bit of the housing market and the death of the starter home. In the same way 25K cars are not cost effective to build, same goes for starter homes. When the land costs the same no matter what you put on it, why build a 1K sq/ft home when a 2K+ sq/ft home can be built on the same lot?

When my parents were children and then young adults starting out, entire neighborhoods of 2-3 bed ranch starter homes were built. My mom’s parents bought one in the early 60’s, then my parents bought one at 24 years old in the late 70’s.

Lewis26
Lewis26
1 day ago
Reply to  RAMbunctious

It’s also that there’s a lot of boomers that are empty nesters, still in big 4-5 bedroom homes.

Sackofcheese
Sackofcheese
1 day ago
Reply to  RAMbunctious

Starter homes still exist, just not always in markets you specifically want to live in. One third of my neighborhood is all single-family starter homes (1100-2000sqft) that were all sub $200k when built between 2016-22. The middle 3rd of my neighborhood is the 2k-5k 4-5 bed big homes with basements. My section is a hodgepodge of both. Our 1800sqft house is sandwiched by 1400 sqft houses all on lots the same size, but across the street is the same house as mine, sandwiched by 1600 sqft houses. Neighborhoods like mine are all over this area of Kentucky.

4jim
4jim
1 day ago
Reply to  Sackofcheese

The starter homes in my neighborhood are all mid 1970s split levels 1500-2000 sqft and start at $320K. I could not afford my house now with 3.5X the income I bought it at 25 years ago.

Sackofcheese
Sackofcheese
1 day ago
Reply to  4jim

My home was built in 2021, I bought it then, and could still buy it now. When accounting for inflation, I make a decent bit less per year now, and we have children to care for unlike we did when we bought the house.

Last edited 1 day ago by Sackofcheese
Toecutter
Member
Toecutter
1 day ago
Reply to  Sackofcheese

Starter homes still exist, just not always in markets you specifically want to live in.

The vast majority of the time, affordable starter homes are run-down dumps needing 5 or 6-figures in repairs before the municipality will grant an occupancy permit and they are located where there are no jobs.

Last edited 1 day ago by Toecutter
Sackofcheese
Sackofcheese
1 day ago
Reply to  Toecutter

My house was built in 2021, in a town where Toyota’s largest automotive factory in the world is located, also 30 minute drive from a major metro area too. Lots of opportunities for employment in this area. Moreso if you are willing to commute an hour to an even larger major metro area. As I mentioned, starter homes just may not be where you specifically want to live. We chose to move here for starting our family because of these things.

Last edited 1 day ago by Sackofcheese
*Jason*
*Jason*
14 hours ago
Reply to  Sackofcheese

We did something similar. When my wife and I were first married my first job was with a company that had a program where they rotated new hires through 3 different segments of the business. At first we were going to head out to California on the 2nd rotation. Reality hit after during the first one an we headed to eastern TN instead.

We spent our first 15 years of marriage in low cost states building equity and getting our finances in order. We moved west in 2014 when we could afford to make the move.

Sackofcheese
Sackofcheese
9 hours ago
Reply to  *Jason*

After living in the Bluegrass state for 12 years now, I don’t want to move to another one. The only exception would be Eastern TN/Western NC. I love Appalachia, and Knoxville or Asheville rules.

*Jason*
*Jason*
6 hours ago
Reply to  Sackofcheese

Eastern TN / Western NC is a beautiful area. (I lived there for 7 years). I could roll out of my driveway and have fun twisty riding / driving roads in pretty much all directions. (I rode my motorcycle 30K miles the first year I lived there between the year-round riding season and great roads.

Summers are rough though.

Noahwayout
Member
Noahwayout
1 day ago
Reply to  RAMbunctious

Starter home is such a patronizing term.

Mechjaz
Member
Mechjaz
1 day ago
Reply to  Noahwayout

Maybe, but I’ll be damned if I’m going back to hand-cranked homes.

Paul E
Member
Paul E
1 day ago
Reply to  Noahwayout

Often better than a starter marriage. May be cheaper, long-term.

3WiperB
Member
3WiperB
1 day ago
Reply to  RAMbunctious

Builders don’t build small houses anymore because there’s no profit at that end of the market.

We do need a shift in what size of home people want to live. My first house was 1100 square feet with no basement. It was fine for 2 people. We moved to 1900 square feet with a finished basement and it was fine for 2 people and our 3 kids. We downsized about 10 years ago to a 1700 square foot house with a small unfinished basement (but gained a bigger yard and garage) and it’s still fine for the 5 of us and I’d never go back to something bigger. It’s less house to maintain and less stuff to acquire. I don’t plan to ever move again if I can help it.
My parents have a 4500 square foot house (which they bought long after us kids were out of the house), plus a pole barn and so much stuff that it gives me anxiety sometimes.

Spopepro
Member
Spopepro
1 day ago
Reply to  3WiperB

Yes, the economics of building things is the bigger issue, and not just for houses. It’s why all kinds of infrastructure projects seem almost impossible to get done in the USA. The construction costs are just too high. So the only things that get done are the things where it’s ok that it’s expensive.

Dan Parker
Dan Parker
1 day ago
Reply to  3WiperB

100% agree. My wife an I live in a 900 square foot house and have no desire at all to go larger. Wouldn’t mind a different layout, or a better view, or different neighborhood, or a bigger yard, but no need at all for more space.

*Jason*
*Jason*
14 hours ago
Reply to  3WiperB

Plenty of small homes being built in my area. They are just townhomes instead of ranches.

Clark B
Member
Clark B
1 day ago
Reply to  RAMbunctious

Starter home prices have really shot up, even in our relatively low cost of living area. We bought a 1300 sq foot home, built in 2016, in 2020 for $178k. We sold it in January, the day it listed, for $252k. Probably could have started a bidding war but we needed to sell it fast. No upgrades or improvements, just rising prices. Worked out great for us, but I’d hate to be in the market for a house like that today.

I wish they’d build more houses like that one. It was well put together for a new build, actually overbuilt according to the inspector. No fancy granite or upscale fixtures and trim that I see so much of in new “starter” homes. The alternative is a flipper special that was bought for $50k and relisted for $200k a month later. All other new builds around here are too expensive to be starter homes.

3WiperB
Member
3WiperB
1 day ago
Reply to  Clark B

House prices have made extreme jumps in the last 10 years. Everything around me has basically doubled in price. Adding to the unaffordability is that property taxes for the new buyers have doubled also. A pretty average $300,000 house in my town has a $7500 annual property tax bill, so that alone is $625 a month before you even get to the house payment. And that’s generally a 1200-1500 square foot ranch house with a basement that was built in the late 1950’s. And that’s a fairly “affordable” house for the general area. I really feel for those trying to move from renting to owning.

*Jason*
*Jason*
14 hours ago
Reply to  RAMbunctious

The modern equivalent of that 60’s / 70’s small ranch is a similar size townhome. Around here “starter” homes are all townhomes with 3 to 4 units on a lot that in the past would hold a single home. (It is also pretty common to see a developer buy an older single family home for the land, knock it down, and build a townhome.

The benefit of a statewide ban on exclusive single family zoning.

MondialMatt
Member
MondialMatt
1 day ago

The song is pretty clearly meant to be sarcastic, though I’m not sure everyone got the message.

Who’s got time for thoughtful consideration of nuanced perspectives? Put that song in a commercial and vote for us!

Jay Mcleod
Jay Mcleod
1 day ago
Reply to  MondialMatt

Sarcastic says who?

Unless the artist clearly labels their intent it’s wide open for interpretation.

Of course do we then hold to Originalism, or do we allow for a living document hermeneutic?

Enquiring mind and all.

Data
Data
1 day ago

TBQ: With the death of the Choco Taco, I’m going with a milkshake, Alex. It’s self contained, fits in the manufacturer provided holding receptacles, and has an uncomplicated straw delivery system.

Icouldntfindaclevername
Member
Icouldntfindaclevername
1 day ago
Reply to  Data

That was my choice until I remembered they were canceled.
My next choice is some kind of milkshake too

Spikedlemon
Spikedlemon
1 day ago

That there’s so much connected within cars, and zero provisions for disabling/troubleshooting/digital security, is frankly inexcusable.

Traditional automakers have had long warnings that they need to do better, and they haven’t (see all the ways to hack CANbus).
And new entrants have been all the more eager to jump into the wild-wild-west of being able to do just about anything with over-the-air changes (with/without user knowledge/involvement).

I’ve got little sympathy for automakers complaining of things like this, at this point. Pull in your big boy/girl panties and do the right thing.

Lockleaf
Lockleaf
1 day ago
Reply to  Spikedlemon

I’m gonna ride in your boat. I have no pity whatsoever about their failures to make all data sending able to be turned off. And the reality is that they can’t afford to ignore CA, so if CA went hard on this, they would have to achieve this in record time.

MyMustangBestMustang
Member
MyMustangBestMustang
1 day ago
Reply to  Spikedlemon

The ‘fix it in post’ mentality is bad enough in the gaming industry and beyond unacceptable for cars.

Alexk98
Member
Alexk98
1 day ago

Inflation in the past 7 years has been rough. 25k in 2019 dollars is ~32,700 in todays money. The ATP chart is fantastic in that it shows the ATP seems to have been creeping up beyond the pace of inflation though, which is significant. That and it shows the general inflation of pricing of the bottom third of vehicles. I also find the 6-figure vehicle share spike most interesting, if anyone had any doubts over the K-shaped economy, there you go.

MyMustangBestMustang
Member
MyMustangBestMustang
1 day ago

That chart is one of the first visuals I’ve seen that really captures the pain of covid inflation, ow.

Also, the average buyer of a Versa in 2019 is probably not the same person who wants to take a stab at a strange new ev-only pickup truck. Could be wrong.

NC Miata NA
Member
NC Miata NA
1 day ago

To be fair, the Versa buyer from 2019 is likely to be driving that Versa until 2035. At that point, Matt will be posting charts about the death of the under $40K car.

Spikedlemon
Spikedlemon
1 day ago
Reply to  NC Miata NA

Testament to solid financial decisions if they’re still driving that same car.

EXL500
Member
EXL500
1 day ago
Reply to  NC Miata NA

I’m 71 and my 2015 Fit is 12. I hope to drive it another 20 years

Albert Ferrer
Member
Albert Ferrer
1 day ago
Reply to  EXL500

Similar to my aunt’s Smart Forfour (from 2015 and she is 79, this week she turns 80). Unless the car has a catastrophic breakdown she intends to drive it until she is not allowed to drive anymore.

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