Over the weekend I finally got the time to get the wiring on my 2CV actually, fully sorted out, all the bare wire spots covered, all the very janky splices fixed with proper heat-gun solder-seal splice connectors, all that, and as a result, all the lights and wipers and all the electrical stuff actually works now. It’s thrilling.
As I was getting all the wiring buttoned up, I was, of course, testing the lights and other electrical bits over and over again with the switch, which is, unsurprisingly, not like the light switches that are on pretty much every other car out there in the world. At first, they seem really strange, but once you open your mind, man, they actually make a lot of sense.
Don’t worry, I’m going to explain. Let’s start with a picture and a diagram! Here’s the switch:
…and here’s the various positions it can have:
Yep, that’s the horn on the end there. You push in to honk.
It’s really not all that different from the expected parking lights/low beams/high beams sort of switch you have on most cars, with the turn signal stalk used for low/high beams, but it is different enough.
First, there’s the terminology: there’s three labeled settings on the rotating knob: 0, V, and R. That stands for off, ville (town), and route (like, highway, or rural). That sort of translates to town and country, which you can sort of think about in terms of high and low beams, but it’s not really like that. They’re actually modes.
Remember, the switch moves forward and back as well as rotating positions. So you can think of the forward/back part as a low/high switch, but one that operates in the two modes, ville and route.
When the rotating switch is on V, back means the small position lights in the headlights: I’ve written about these before, they’re similar to parking lights, and are also called sidelights or town lights, and they’re for driving in a well-lit part of town at night, when you need your lights to allow your car to be seen as opposed to lighting the road for you to see.
When the switch is on V and you push the lever forward, you get your standard low beam headlights. So, in town, in V, the forward/back motion switches between town lights and low beams.
Switch the rotating bit to R, and then you’re in route mode, and in this mode forward is still low beams, and back is high beams. So the way to think about V and R are modes, each with high/low settings, which are controlled by the stalk being either forward or back. The level of those bright/dim lights are decided whether you’re in V or R, with V being dimmer and R being brighter.
So, this means low beams can be turned on in either V or R modes! It’s weird but it makes sense, too, because you can easily switch between bright and dim with the forward/back motion of the stalk, whether you’re in town or out on a dark back road. When low beams are on, rotating from V to R keeps the low beams still going, but pulling the stalk back now activates the high beams.
There’s some good internal pictures of this strange 5-position switch on this site, if you’re curious.
Oh, one thing about the position lights: replacing those bulbs is a pain, but I think I figured out the trick. The bulb is really tiny, and goes in one of those push-and-turn sockets, but there’s barely enough room for my two smallish monkey fingers to get in there, through the main bulb hole.
What you have to do is position the bulb in there with two fingers first, then go back in with your thumb and index finger from the angle you see in the lower picture up there, and that gives just enough room to push down and twist. It’s a pain and if you have big fingers, you’re gonna need to bribe a kid to do this for you.
I’m just thrilled to see some progress, and glad to have the wiring behind me. I love seeing the absurdly tiny instruments illuminated, too, but they’re way brighter in this picture; I may want to swap the little candle-level incandescents in there with a bright LED so I can read the damn things.
Next step: carb cleaning, I think. I want to get this thing on the road so badly!
Jason,
Thanks for the write-up on the 2CV’s lighting switch. It reminded me of the 2CV and Mehari I owned in the seventies and eighties.
The 2CV had been owned by a college professor in Maryland who had bought it in France and imported it to the US before NHTSA rules prohibited non-compliance imports. It had the optional clutch that let the driver engage it at low speeds. I bought a new frame for it but ended parting it out after moving it three times.
My brother found the Mehari in New Mexico and sent it to me via moving van. It was one of a handful of legal models that Citroen imported with a metal plaque on the dash that said it fulfilled NHTSA requirements. I enjoyed driving the Mehari to local car shows. It got more attention from motorcycle riders than car drivers, although its engine was about half of the displacement of the average Harley-Davidson. After owning it for about a decade, I sold it to a buyer from a southern state who towed it home.
Best wishes to you. I hope you will enjoy your 2CV.
I saw one of these here in rural Nova Scotia today in the driveway of a house with redneck levels of random half-rusted cars sitting across the yard!
They were never sold here, so it blew my mind to see one just…sitting there! It was a later model in red with the rectangular headlights!
I’m probably just repeating myself at this point, but I just can’t resist. My dad shared one with his brother as young lads in the 60’s in Europe. They drove theirs through parts of the Sahara desert, and even had a micro meteorite land on the hood and fuse there, while they were camping. He loved that car so much. What a treasure to discover these fun details.
I miss cars being more idiosyncratic. So much sameness today, and very little of it an appealing sameness. A person could tell they were in a Citroen blindfolded. But today, if you removed the badges and branding on the display screens how many crossovers are in any way identifiable?
They all have radically different shifters.
For autotragics. Who cares?
sorry — should have added the /s tag. I was making a joke about all the needlessly dumb variations of a normal shift lever that are out there these days.
No worries, you certainly aren’t wrong about that. Though with rare exceptions, I don’t see why automatics shouldn’t just have buttons anyway at this point, given they are universally electronically controlled. Physical ones, not virtual on a screen.
I’m not opposed to buttons but I do think they should be standardized or at the very least intuitive rather than used by automakers as an opportunity to be “unique.”
Oh, I agree. Just like PRNDL for an automatic shift lever was the standard for decades whether on the column or the console. Too much re-inventing the wheel going on.
Though I have to admit, I LIKE the little monostable column stalk on my Mercedes.
I love French cars.
IIRC, pretty much the same setup as my Peugeot 504s. And lots of other French cars of the era.
I swear the French designed cars from a blank piece of paper and the attitude, “On s’en fiche de la façon dont les autres le font” –
Pretty much.
As I have said on here before, the French follow no one, and no one follows the French.
Doesn’t mean they are wrong, but they certainly can do things differently.
Bringing the Torch to the IP
Henceforth ye shall be addressed as JaegerMeister
So interestingly, it’s pronounced “jay-jer” French Swiss
JaegerMonsieur
I can never remember, is that with an egg or without?
A basket of eggs.
Of course!!
I think without. Croque madame had the egg. Which makes so much sense, yet I only realised that now.
Those saucy French…..
I can’t help but like how it looks without the front fenders on. 🙂
Have we given up on editing? For someone who cares so much about what images appear in an article, can we please use simple words correctly?
As a huge Torch stan I have to second this. Mainly because I got weirdly defensive of Jason (and regrettably offensive toward David) in that whole David Image Quality saga and I’m sorta feeling every Torch error now, ha
wait wait what words? I’ll fix ’em! It’s not print, I can do that!
It’s a use of “there” instead of “they’re” – sent it to you on Discord. It’s something that could be fixed but does not justify Florida Man’s petulance and incivility.
Your write, their was no reason for that…
crap! thank you and sorry!
No worries! Your whole crew is going a mile a minute and stuff happens.
Really all you did was leave out a y and an apostrophe – could have been a lot worse 🙂
I personally don’t get wrapped around the axle re: minor errors, but they may be referring to:
Your 2CV articles are really interesting, thanks for sharing…
Have you never made a small error in your profession over the years? Not everyone is a perfect robot, day in and day out. Humans make errors and they have bad/off days, etc.
Chill out, Floridian.
Exactly, errors do happen. All I ask is that when they get pointed out they get corrected and the record of this website on that front has been quite good in my experience. It’s fine to point errors out, just please actually list out the error politely instead of snarky rhetorical questions.
I’ll add that when errors are pointed out, the writers and contributors are gracious to a fault, even when the OPs are not.
When people get worked up about nothing, it’s best to ignore them and count to three. Won, too, tree.
Absolutely, I definitely do. But I don’t make them continually in the core part of my job. It definitely gets in the way of reading the articles from time to time for me. I did not go back and re-read this one, but off-hand there was thing/think, they’re/there/their and there’s/there are. And no, it’s not just this article and not just Jason and not just The Autopian. Still my favorite car-site on the interwebs, it just gets annoying at times.
As a former professional grammarian and writer: chill out, bro.
Good to hear you say that! I’ll do my best to do that going forward. Sorry to all for kicking the wasp’s nest.
My ’71 Peugeot 504 (US spec) had an interesting arrangement as well. The turn signal wand was on the right side of the streeting column. My memory is a little uncertain, but I think there was another, more solid, protuberance on the right that had a button for the delightful horns that car had.
The lights were handled by a stalk on the left. Its resting position was off. Pushing straight down did a spring-loaded, self-canceling “flash to pass” of the high beams. Pulling straight back activated the running/parking lights. Down from there brought the low beams into play. And then forward, we’re back to the high beams we blipped a moment ago. It didn’t take much younger me long to adjust.
After it got massacred and totaled by a poorly driven Plymouth Fury station wagon, I wish I had pulled the horns; dual tone, but different than what you usually hear in this country. They had a certain, oh “joie de vivre,” note to them lacking on most of the cars around here. Oh. And my press photographer plates. I wish I still had at least the front one. The rear one was almost unrecognizable from the rear impact.
I am remembering (but it’s been a while for me too) that the much later 504s (79-80) that I had were twist to turn on the lights, then forward and back for high and low, down to flash. And horn on the end of the stalk, of course. Which I quite like, having had to troubleshoot sundry rotating contacts over the years for steering wheel center horns. Indicator on the right took getting used to, especially when going back and forth to other cars. But now I am thinking that maybe the horn was PULLING the indicator stalk, not the end of the headlight stalk? I miss that car so much still. Sigh.
Yes, Peugeots had great horns! Both 504 and 505. Though more cars should have “town and country” selectable horns. A friend had a grey-market w123 Mercedes 280E with that option. Lovely – a polite “excuse me” meep, meep, or a “GET OUT OF THE WAY, PEASANT” – WAAAAAAAAGH!
Wait, there was a US domestic market 504??
Yes. For at least four years. Including diesels and wagons. The Europeans got cooler headlights.
The 505s made it over here and 405s, including the 16.
And then pfft! They were gone.
I bought a second 504 I wanted to restore. It had a very silky 4M stick. My DD had the Automatique. I tore into the second one (because its engine had issues) and realized I was in over my head and sadly sold it for parts.
As a teen, in the early 70s, before I had my DL, I worked for a newspaper distributor who used a small fleet of three 403 wagons, a couple of Corolla wagons and a lone Ford Econoline. One Sunday morning, one of the Peugeots hit a skunk and stank up the garage we worked out of upon its return.
My boss and his wife grew up in Eastern Europe. I remember the day I walked into the office and she had just received a terminal cancer diagnosis. I cried with her for half an hour.
I knew about the 505 and 405, but I no idea a about the 504!
Do you know if Columbo’s 404 was regularly available for the US market, too?
He definitely drove a 403. One that was (not) taken care of as well as you might expect.
504s were beasts. Pleasant, simple, sturdy beasts. Designed to withstand driving around the African colonies. I loved mine. It made it to 150K and could have gone a lot longer. Had it not gotten clobbered as described above in this thread.
Although, the key broke off in the steering column cylinder, It didn’t lock the steering, so I wired up a toggle switch under the dash for the ignition and everything else and a push to start button for the starter motor. That car was probably unstealable. Lol. Not that anyone in the US would ever want to steal a 504.
I didn’t get the same feeling from a 307 I rented in France many years later. It was a lovely car, but I don’t know how it would hold up on non-roads in Africa.
My grandmother had a white 504 brought back to the mainland from the colonies. A wonderful car.
I don’t know which mainland she was on, or which colonies. My first 504 was white and an Automatique, in the US. I bought a second one with a 4M and the transmission was beautiful. But its engine was not. I wanted to overhaul it, but I didn’t have the tools or the know-how. Trying to do that, I immediately recognized I was in over my head and I was taking off in my early 20s career. (And it was a lovely shade of green. 🙂
My Peugeot was picked up from the factory by a professor who it turned out was the father of a daughter in my advanced math class in high school. I had crushes on her and her non-Peugeot-parent owning friend. The friend was pretty hot. The daughter of the original owner was smarter. They were a year ahead of me, so they just humored me when I asked if we could go out.
I left the mainland and colonies vague to cling to a bit of privacy 🙂
I was half expecting “and we’ve been happily married for 98 years” at the end there.
My high school had a combined reunion with their class but sadly neither of them were there.
Up until about ten years ago I noticed that there were a stunning number of Peugeot’s in the Park Slope neighborhood of Brooklyn. It took me a couple years to figure it out, but it turns out that somebody had a business called “king of the lions“ that would buy up Peugeot’s around the rest of the United States fix most of them up and use the rest for parts and sell them locally. Also apparently the largest number of French ex pats in the US live in the general neighborhood. I guess the supply bog repairable Peugeots dried up or something. A shiny 504 wagon will still draw a crowd of admirers.
I bet they have some wonderful restaurants there. Marseille at 9th Ave and W 44th in Manhattan has never disappointed me. Nor has Cafe Un Deux Trois on W 44th just west of 6th Ave. All of my work trips to NYC were to sites in Manhattan, and I never got over to Brooklyn. But now I would like to.
Hey Jason, the Best of France and Italy car show was yesterday in Los Angeles. Maybe five or six 2CVs were in attendance, maybe more. I mostly hung out on the Italian end showing off a few of mine. If you needed a light switch for a 2CV, you should’ve asked. There’s a huge parts swap meet off to the side of the show. Plenty of unobtainable parts.
Hey, I was there, but no car to show off this year, she’s in pieces and getting ready for some fresh paint currently. I’d say it was about 400 cars total attendance. Gorgeous factory ex-rally Lancia Integrale and a Lancia 037 Rally among the more uncommon. And two Lamborghini tractors! Heard someone say it belonged to Leno.
Granted you’re the graphic design guy, Torch, but I have to complement you anyway: your articles are always so well-illustrated they’re a pleasure to read even if I have absolutely zero danger of owning or driving a 2CV.
Case in point: the top photo, of the 2CV proudly showing her headlights (eek!)? You remembered that only half of the “Cold Start” logo would be illuminated. Bravo!
I know the primary reason for the partial blackout on the logo is to simulate the edge of the headlight beams, but I love the way it turns “COLD START” into “OLD ART.” Bravo, Jason.
Always happy to read your articles about obscure little details like this! I have a ’65 Ami 6 and in addition to that lovely stalk there’s also the indicator stalk, which when operated springs to its middle position. To cancel the indicator you have to pull on the stalk. Not sure if it’s the same in 2CVs, especially late ones like this one. Fun to observe when someone drives it for the first time and they’re being assaulted from all angles from the unusual gearchange, to the odd indicator operation.
2CV you have to push the stalk back to center yourself. So not weird, but not self cancelling. That was the case through the end of production.
Pretty sure that was a deliberate decision on their part, no Citroen had self cancelling indicators until the phase 2 BX. I’ve come to appreciate it and now i get disproportionately annoyed when they self-cancel themselves prematurely in other cars 😀
“Switch the rotating bit to R, and then you’re in route mode, and in this mode forward is low beams, and back is high beams. So the way to think about V and R are modes, each with high/low settings, which are controlled by the stalk being either forward (brighter lights) or back (dimmer).”
The first sentence should be correct, so you keep low beams when switching from ville to route.
I fixed the chart, thank you!
Just put it in H!
Since nobody gave this any love, The Bishop and I STILL reference that entire Simpson scene, esp since I got the 2CV. “This car was made on country that no longer exists!”
Next step: replace the old R2 bulbs with H4 bulb on P45t base. I promise you, the night illumination is massively improved.
I’m SO tempted by this, but in my 2CV’s headlight boxes, there’s not much extra depth for an adapter.
No adapter:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CP6CLZFH/
(6V example.)
Ah, yes. Halogen. Hmm. The ones I’m seeing are higher wattage than I trust for my 2CV. But I also need to check my headlight wiring and see that I don’t have some issue. I switched to LEDs for now, but they are NOT great because they’re cheap and do not have the right dipped pattern
I have one in 12V 45/40W (whatever is std) in a MC with direct lighting and no surplus power.
Halogens will be sensitive to low voltage, so be sure to check that.
But, halogens will last much longer.
Do you know about OSRAM Night Breaker Vintage LED H4 bulbs? They cast warmer temperature like the halogen bulbs.
No adapter needed. It’s straight fit without any modifications.
My parents had a 1986 2CV Charleston, and its headlamps with R2 bulbs with P45t base were so bad. I came across the H4 bulbs with P45t base. They fit perfectly and improved the output a lot. My mother was a happy camper as she drove often at night in the rural area.
I’ve always wanted to own a car with a dogleg shift pattern.
It’s even doggier and leggier in real life.
The diagram omits the wrist twists and push-pulls.
Strange, all bulb holders I have seen like this(*) were press or twist fit from the outside.
(*) Position-, parking- and marker-ligths depending on wiring and jurisdiction.
“I’m out of parking space and time with this 2CV and it needs wiring work and a fuel pump. You’re an electronics wizard though and the fuel pump is a really simple easy fix.” -me, last summer, in my kitchen
“I got this.” -Jason Torchinsky, in the same kitchen
That may have been the best moment for this particular car for a solidifying pathway into the future as a running, driving vehicle.
It was getting dangerously close to becoming a parts car after sitting in a backyard for 10 years with title issues.
Bravo, Jason!
There was NO WAY the Chapel Hill Citroen crew was going to let that happen. We quietly had a backup plan in case Jason didn’t buy it. 🙂
But Jason having it was always going the most enjoyable option
Are you literally our Bishop’s brother?
I will say that The Bishop’s Brother was wicked kind and helpful in getting this 2CV repaired!
The man has an extensive knowledge of those cars and owns one himself. A totally righteous dude.
Literally
Amazing!
I put some carb hints in a previous 2CV discussion, just in case 🙂
https://www.theautopian.com/heres-my-citroen-2cv-progress-update-and-whats-currently-baffling-me/comment-page-1/#comment-759153
Jason currently has my can of Berrymans 🙂
Perfect! 😀
Yeah, NOTHING I’ve done to my 2CV has had a bigger impact than a full, teardown carb clean and refurb kit (gaskets, needle valve, transition jet). Now she just starts and goes.
According to a quick search, Citroën seems to refer to the idle jet as also the transition and pilot jet; replacing that would indeed be time well spent. The main jet should be significantly easier to clean, so there would be less need to replace it.
Did you use OEM or aftermarket parts in yours? In the Japanese motorcycle world, some people hold the strong opinion that it’s always better to clean the OEM jets (assuming no damage, of course) because a lot of the aftermarket jets are poorly made.
There is (on my single barrel – Jason’s is a double) an idle jet on the outside, a transition jet on the outside, and the main jet inside the carb. The car CAN be limped around even if the transition jet rattles out of its hole. Don’t ask me how I know that…
While we have a sorta automatic version of this now with DRLs, I wish the same thing existed for taillights.
Thanks to screens and general distraction, there are always ghost cars running around urban areas at night, when there’s enough light so that inattentive drivers don’t notice.
Thank you for your guidance on changing the parking lights in 2CVs, I’m sure it’ll help all three of us readers who own one.
But not even a word about the tilt mechanism? The 2CV has self-leveling headlights, by which I mean you level them yourself using a weird knob under the center of the dash.
Jason and my cars have them on the FAR left, as the rod runs down the left edge of the engine compartment, and it’s awesome
I thought ours was in the middle of the dash, but I might be conflating it with the vent knob higher up. I’ll have to check next time I’m driving it.
Vent knob is def central, so it pushes on the center of the long vent bar. But if the headlight adjuster were in the center of the dash, it would have to punch its way through most of the drivetrain to make it to the headlight bar. So I’m not sure how it could be central.
Yeah I’m just wrong.
With that extension cord hanging out in the one photo, can we convince the internet Torch converted this to a PHEV?
…
What IS that extension cord for? A trickle charger? It looks to be wrapped up in the car enough to be semi-permanent, so either that or a block heater, but the environment doesn’t appear to need one of those. And a random cord from yard work or wrenching doesn’t seem likely given it’s tucked away neatly.
It’s a battery charger.
Nice work, Jason!!! Soon enough, you’ll be joining the rest of the local on-the-road 2CVs. I can’t wait.
When I got my 2CV, I was a little sad that it had the more modern, rectangular headlight cans. I am no longer sad. The headlights are a LOT easier to deal with in those big cans.
My 1979 had rectangular headlights, I can’t help thinking of them as the right shape.