Home » The Pentagon Reportedly Asked GM And Ford If They Could Help Build Weapons

The Pentagon Reportedly Asked GM And Ford If They Could Help Build Weapons

Gm Defense's Infantry Squad Vehicle Completes Uae Armed Forces S

In his book The Arsenal of Democracy, A.J. Baime makes the interesting historical observation that an Allied B-24 built by Ford in Detroit likely dropped bombs in Northern Italy on a repurposed Ferrari factory building tools and equipment for the Axis, just a few years before the two companies would lay down their arms and battle on the track at Le Mans.

A new report says that the Pentagon approached Ford and General Motors to help with shoring up the country’s defense stocks (an Arsenal of, uh, Kleptocracy I guess). The timing is interesting given that the White House has also asked automakers to use all their factories to build more cars. For Ford, that’s a big deal as the company transitions into an advanced manufacturing arm… without its chief of advanced stuff.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

This White House has been trying to get carmakers to build more affordable cars at almost any cost and, by one measure at least, cars are a little bit more affordable. You know what might be truly affordable? Chery’s new EV van for Europe. It also has a hilarious name.

What Could GM And Ford Build For The Department of War?

Gm Defense Isv Large
Photo: GM Defense

Iran doesn’t make a lot of cars, and I haven’t heard anything about the factory still building Peugeot 405s getting bombed, so I’m not sure that we’ve yet reached the modern equivalent of Ford vs. Ferrari. This new type of war seems to be more about missiles, drones, and the interception of missiles and drones. Given that automakers represent a large percentage of your typical industrialized country’s complex manufacturing, there’s been a surge in carmakers talking about becoming makers of weapons.

French automaker Renault is planning to produce drones at an underutilized factory, and Volkswagen has reportedly talked to the maker of the Iron Dome to build components for the air defense system. This makes this Wall Street Journal report on the Pentagon approaching GM and Ford about helping with the war effort perhaps not that surprising:

During the talks with U.S. manufacturing executives, defense officials framed bolstering weapons production as a matter of national security.

The officials asked whether companies could help as the Pentagon seeks to shore up domestic manufacturing capacity, the people said. The officials also asked executives to identify barriers to taking on additional defense work, from contracting requirements to hurdles in the bidding process.

Oshkosh, based in Wisconsin, entered a dialogue with the Pentagon in November following Hegseth’s call for companies to boost production, said Logan Jones, chief growth officer for the company’s transport segment.

Its discussions have centered on “where could we bring that capacity in a way that matches our core capability,” he said.

GM makes a lot of sense, as the company’s GM Defense arm already makes an infantry carrier for the Army, as well as up-armored Suburbans. Oshkosh is, historically, a big supplier of large vehicles for the military. Ford is a little more interesting, as the company sold its defense subsidiary (Ford Aerospace) back in the 1990s after making a bunch of missiles, including the legendary Sidewinder.

If you only have a hammer, everything like looks like a nail. If you have a Department of War, does everything look like a war? Maybe, but the War in Ukraine and this latest conflict has dramatically reduced the country’s missile stockpiles, and now the Department of War is looking to replenish stocks and asking for a historically large missile budget. The biggest issue might just be that we can’t build missiles fast enough, as Breaking Defense points out:

Ultimately, Congress is going to have to take a serious look at what industry can actually deliver before it signs off on such a historic spending plan, said Carlton Haelig, a defense budget expert at the Center for a New American Security.

“I would suspect that right now there is an extreme delta between what the department expects on an annual basis and what industry is able to produce with the supply chains and the manufacturing pipelines that they have in place right now,” he said. “I fully support the amount of munitions being requested. I think it’s the right call. But we need to start talking about the defense industrial base support for that request.”

What’s curious here is that the Trump Administration’s approach to manufacturing has been to try to get companies to utilize as much of the country’s factory output to build cars. Perhaps all those scuttled EV projects can be used to build missiles.

Ford’s Chief Tech Guy Out, Replaced By A Committee

Doug Field
Source: Ford

It was a big deal when Doug Field came to Ford, given his background at Tesla, Segway, and Apple. According to this Ford release, he’s out and is being replaced by what sort of sounds like a committee?

Ford Chief Operating Officer Kumar Galhotra will lead the unified Product Creation and Industrialization organization. The team will be responsible for scaling Ford’s digital, design, and electric vehicle breakthroughs across its global industrial system, ensuring that innovative technologies are integrated with world-class engineering, purchasing, and manufacturing.

“The progress our teams have made in the past few years – from quality and cost to software delivery – has fundamentally reshaped the way we work and positioned Ford for a new era,” Galhotra said. “By uniting advanced technology with industrial execution, we can make decisions faster, eliminate complexity, and deliver great vehicles and digital experiences with the quality and efficiency our customers and shareholders expect.”

Doug Field, who joined Ford nearly five years ago to lead the company’s shift to electrified, connected and software-defined vehicles, has elected to leave the company after a transition over the next month. During his tenure, Field embedded high-tech capabilities into the company while building a world-class team and culture. Crucially, Field also helped foster collaboration between the Electric Vehicle, Digital & Design and Industrial System teams that made this full integration possible.

The press release is very friendly! However, as CNBC points out, not everything worked out as planned under Field’s tenure:

[M[any of Ford’s initiatives involving software and EVs did not perform as expected. Most notably, the automaker reported significant shortfalls in generation of software revenue and in December announced it would write down $19.5 billion related to a pullback in EVs and realignment of business priorities.

While several automakers have announced such impacts due to EVs, Ford’s write-down was much larger than its closest rival, General Motors, which has announced roughly $7.6 billion in such charges.

Given that basically every major automaker took a bath on EVs, it’s hard to pin the failure on just one person, and Ford CEO Jim Farley made a point of stating the importance of Field.

Car Affordability Improved In One Metric

Vai March 2026 Graph Large
Source: Cox Automotive

My most controversial take is probably that the economy under Joe Biden was pretty good, all things considered (pandemic, PPP, et cetera), and that the current economy under President Trump ain’t that bad either. Yes, it’s K-shaped. Yes, private credit or some other financial iceberg lurking under the surface could collapse it all, but unemployment is relatively low and inflation isn’t catastrophic yet.

There are many ways to look at the affordability of cars, and price isn’t always the best one, if only because it can be skewed by buyers grabbing giant crossovers. Another way to look at it is the way Cox Automotive/Moody’s does, which is to look at how many weeks it takes the average household to afford the average new car, and numbers continue to improve:

The typical monthly payment for a new vehicle fell by 0.5% in March to $752, but was higher year over year by 2.9%, up from $731 a year ago. Still, with household income higher by 3.9%, the number of median weeks of income required to buy the average new vehicle dropped to 35.1 in March, down from 35.4 weeks in February and at the lowest point in nearly four years.

While new-vehicle affordability in March was better than it was a year earlier and continues to generally improve as household income grows, other challenges continue to place pressure on vehicle affordability in the U.S.

Yeah, here’s the catch:

In addition to the immediate financial pressure of $4-a-gallon gas prices, major vehicle ownership costs such as maintenance, repairs and insurance have all seen sustained, outsized increases since the pandemic. For example, while new-vehicle prices are higher by roughly 15% versus 2021, some estimates suggest vehicle insurance costs have increased by nearly 60%, while routine service and maintenance costs are higher by 40%. The compounding effect of these higher prices is at the heart of today’s affordability conundrum.

The best way to lower car ownership costs is probably to lower fuel and insurance costs, which doesn’t seem to be happening anytime soon.

Behold, The Delivan

(1) Delivan Large
Source: Chery

Chinese car company Chery is planning to sell a commercial van in Europe, eventually, and it’s got the perfect concept. Delivan!

Positioned as a forward-looking commercial vehicle proposition, DELIVAN will be introduced as well as a series of DELIVAN concept vehicles, offering an early preview of the company’s product, technology and design direction ahead of a planned European product launch in 2027.

Commenting on the upcoming moment, Jolly Yang – VP of Chery Commercial Vehicle and CEO of DELIVAN said: “This is a defining moment for Chery Commercial Vehicle as we take our first step into the European market at the Commercial Vehicle Show. Europe represents one of the most advanced and demanding commercial vehicle environments in the world, and it is exactly where we want to demonstrate the strength of our vision, our technology and our long-term commitment.

I get that this is a portmanteau of Delivery and Van, but I immediately scanned it as Deli and Van. Maybe I’m just hungry.

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

I enjoy They Might Be Giants, even if I’m probably a few years too young to have become obsessed with them. Still, a new song is worth celebrating. Please enjoy “Get Down” from the ideally-named Particle Man YouTube account.

The Big Question

What’s the strangest non-car object ever produced by an automaker?

Top photo: GM Defense

 

 

 

 

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Beto O'Kitty
Member
Beto O'Kitty
2 hours ago

I was hoping the TBQ would be what do you want the government to ask Ford or GM to build?
Malcolm in the Middle’s theme song by They Might be Giants is great as I’m sure #33 would agree.
My TBQ: A Gold Hurst.

Nlpnt
Member
Nlpnt
2 hours ago

Nobody’s mentioned Peugeot pepper mills yet so I will.

DialMforMiata
Member
DialMforMiata
1 hour ago
Reply to  Nlpnt

Beat me to it!

Tondeleo Jones
Tondeleo Jones
2 hours ago

What’s the strangest non-car object ever produced by an automaker?

My grandparents had an International Harvester refrigerator.

TheNewt
Member
TheNewt
2 hours ago
Reply to  Tondeleo Jones

IH made M-1 rifles during WW2 as well.

Lockleaf
Lockleaf
2 hours ago
Reply to  Tondeleo Jones

For most of the TV show Friends, the fridge in Monica’s apartment is an IH. As a fan of both Friends and IH, I have been seeking a duplicate of that exact fridge off and on for years. I’ve found some other very cool IH Fridges, but never that one. I want it for my garage fridge.

OverlandingSprinter
Member
OverlandingSprinter
2 hours ago

What’s the strangest non-car object ever produced by an automaker?

Studebaker’s Cincinnati Testing Laboratories (CTL) subsidiary made heat shields for the Mercury space program.

Drive By Commenter
Member
Drive By Commenter
2 hours ago

Trump admin: “Make more and cheaper cars! V8 all the cars! So what if kids can’t breathe, car go vroom! But do it while we tariff literally everything that goes into those cars! No help setting up domestic supplies! Pull yourselves up by your bootstraps! And no EV’s! EV’s bad! By the way, we’re going to spike the price of oil while making renewable energy impossible to get built! Also, build us more missiles! We love things that go boom! Make it happen in two weeks!”

I think that summarizes where we are.

Parsko
Member
Parsko
1 hour ago

IOW: gimme all the money

4moremazdas
Member
4moremazdas
2 hours ago

I would suspect that right now there is an extreme delta between what the department expects on an annual basis and what industry is able to produce with the supply chains and the manufacturing pipelines that they have in place right now

It’s almost as if the US is set up for overwhelming firepower over a very short period and not at all prepared for drawn-out asymmetric warfare. Which isn’t a bad strategy for defending yourself against attack, but is a terrible strategy for trying to execute regime change.

If only we’d had some sort of previous experience with this to tell us it would be extraordinarily expensive with little to no upside and massive potential for major downside.

TheDrunkenWrench
Member
TheDrunkenWrench
42 minutes ago
Reply to  4moremazdas

No, no. Let’s threaten to annex the country we share the largest unprotected land border in the world with. The fact that they speak like us and look like us definitely wouldn’t turn into an unwinnable war.

Tbird
Member
Tbird
2 hours ago

I suspect the issue with ramping up missle/arms production will be same same one plaguing the rest of industry – silicon chips. Between the AI boom, consumer demands and China having us by the short and curlies I just don’t see it happening.

Last edited 2 hours ago by Tbird
RustyJunkyardClassicFanatic
Member
RustyJunkyardClassicFanatic
2 hours ago

DeliVan? Who needs that when the AMC Pacer already exists?!
Reminds me of the Sandwich King Pacer commercial:
https://youtu.be/E3Utv8kXPUI?si=m11jTbBkIgYtMtUI

Spikedlemon
Spikedlemon
2 hours ago

Perhaps all those scuttled EV projects can be used to build missiles.

One can say that in a very dark and shijty way that the US has “exported” a very high volume of missiles.

This tracks opposite of what the domestic auto industry is doing.

What they’re missing, however, is that the typical recipient of an exported car is far more likely to be a repeat customer.

Data
Data
2 hours ago

GM – Hughes Electronics Corporation (i.e. satellites) which leads us to GM owning DirecTV

OverlandingSprinter
Member
OverlandingSprinter
2 hours ago
Reply to  Data

… which offered adult movies. At one point, GM was the largest distributor of adult movies in the US.

SaabaruDude
Member
SaabaruDude
7 minutes ago

this might be the winner!

TheDrunkenWrench
Member
TheDrunkenWrench
2 hours ago

The biggest issue might just be that we can’t build missiles fast enough

Now, I’m neither American nor Military, but I FEEL like you could curb the weapons stockpile issue if the Oval Office stopped treating the Middle East like a big ‘ol pile of Heroin, and themselves an addict.

Seriously. It feels like everyone who has held the office has started a war in the middle east for longer than I’ve been alive.

It’s like that toxic ex that keeps coming back around and fucking your life up all over again.

Nlpnt
Member
Nlpnt
2 hours ago

Not everyone, only Republicans. Sometimes Dems will ramp up an existing one (eg. Obama in Iraq) because, as Biden found out when the Afghanistan pullout fell in his lap, it takes tremendous political courage to actually end a war and unless it goes off perfectly (which it did once in American history but we still hold that as the standard rather than the wild-ass exception it really was) it destroys political capital.

RAMbunctious
RAMbunctious
1 hour ago
Reply to  Nlpnt

Dems are complicit too. Plenty of them are staying quiet about the current situation and continue to vote for funding genocide, and 20 years ago anyone who was against was in Iraq/Afghanistan was a pariah.

TheDrunkenWrench
Member
TheDrunkenWrench
1 hour ago
Reply to  RAMbunctious

It’s the Ratchet Effect. The Overton window gets dragged right, but never returns to the left. Instead, the “left” leaning party just compromises at the current standoff, until the window shifts again and the ratchet clicks ahead one more.

RAMbunctious
RAMbunctious
52 minutes ago

Good point, I see it in effect every election cycle. I often read that the US left would be right in Europe.

I give it to the R’s for never compromising and standing firm even when they’re standing on complete BS. I wish the dems would stand like that, but for good reasons that actually help the 99%.

TheDrunkenWrench
Member
TheDrunkenWrench
47 minutes ago
Reply to  RAMbunctious

A party led by the ideologies of people like AOC and Zoran Mamdani. Inject some hope into the youth and drive them to the polls.

it’s important to have a proper political spectrum to truly attack a problem from all sides, and the left is severely underrepresented at the governmental level.

DialMforMiata
Member
DialMforMiata
1 hour ago

This time it’ll be different, baby. I promise!

TheDrunkenWrench
Member
TheDrunkenWrench
1 hour ago
Reply to  DialMforMiata

It took me 5 years to learn that lesson. It really messed me up in future relationships where, looking back, I was not my best self.

Shooting Brake
Member
Shooting Brake
2 hours ago

The delivans can only deliver sandwiches and sandwich making materials. Also the main differences between the Biden and Trump economies is Biden held the economy together through a bunch of unavoidable crisis, while Trump has created all the crisis that the economy is barely weathering himself, and he’s desperate to take over the fed and send everything over a cliff.

Last edited 2 hours ago by Shooting Brake
TheDrunkenWrench
Member
TheDrunkenWrench
2 hours ago
Reply to  Shooting Brake

They’re exclusively refrigerated vans, cause we only deliver COLD CUTS, BABY.

Data
Data
2 hours ago

That’s a hot take.

Mechjaz
Member
Mechjaz
2 hours ago
Reply to  Data

That’s what the Paganini delivery car is for.

RAMbunctious
RAMbunctious
1 hour ago
Reply to  Shooting Brake

To me, all of the current comparisons to Biden are like saying shooting yourself in the foot is better than getting hit by a runaway truck.

TheDrunkenWrench
Member
TheDrunkenWrench
1 hour ago
Reply to  RAMbunctious

It’s just 25 hour shifts at the ball crushing factory, every goddamn day.

Son of Dad
Son of Dad
2 hours ago

gm used to own kelvinator appliances and ford owned philco

Ranwhenparked
Member
Ranwhenparked
2 hours ago
Reply to  Son of Dad

GM owned Frigidaire, Kelvinator was American Motors/Nash-Kelvinator

Lincoln Clown CaR
Member
Lincoln Clown CaR
1 hour ago
Reply to  Ranwhenparked

Yep. My Kenosha, WI Jr. High School home ec room was full of Kelvinator stuff.

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
1 hour ago
Reply to  Son of Dad

Chrysler made HVAC systems under the Airtemp brand.

TheDrunkenWrench
Member
TheDrunkenWrench
1 hour ago
Reply to  Son of Dad

I just assume Kelvinator is a company that goes around changing the temperature readings on any and every thing to Kelvin.

IRegretNothing, Esq, DVM, BBQ
Member
IRegretNothing, Esq, DVM, BBQ
3 hours ago

The 2:00am phone call Kegsbreath made to GM got off to a rocky start, as he called Mary Barra an ungrateful c-word because he thought he had accidentally called his ex. A deal was informally struck when Barra said the “totally fucking bitchin” pickup trucks with chainsaws mounted on the front Kegsbreath wanted were technically possible to make.

Nlpnt
Member
Nlpnt
2 hours ago

“Hello, OnStar?”

“GET ME (hic) BARRA!”

“Mr. Secretary, are you driving!?!”

“NUYYA BISHNEZZ!!”

“OK, I’m reporting you to the police as a potential DUI…”

JT4Ever
Member
JT4Ever
3 hours ago

Tesla has made flamethrowers, sledgehammers, and tequila maybe?

Ranwhenparked
Member
Ranwhenparked
2 hours ago
Reply to  JT4Ever

Musk was also reselling someone else’s chocolate under his own brand for awhile, as part of a weird argument he got into with Warren Buffett, except Warren Buffett has an actual, legit candy factory (See’s), so I don’t know what point Musk thought he was making with that

JT4Ever
Member
JT4Ever
2 hours ago
Reply to  Ranwhenparked

I mean, do we ever know what point Musk thinks he is making?

Pupmeow
Member
Pupmeow
45 minutes ago
Reply to  Ranwhenparked

Guy On Drugs Does Weird Thing. More at 11.

Sasquatch
Sasquatch
3 hours ago

The really strange thing about the DoD (No, I’m not calling it the Department of War, changing that takes an act of Congress) asking GM and Ford to build military equipment is that those things are usually put out in a request for bids.

I don’t know why it would be strange for Ford or GM to build light scout vehicles. Chrysler had an entire division dedicated to building tanks up until 1982 when that department was sold to General Dynamics. The design for the first M1 Abrams tank came out of Chrysler.

Last edited 3 hours ago by Sasquatch
NC Miata NA
Member
NC Miata NA
3 hours ago

This committee of Ford’s is really a bunch of executives standing around and spinning a big wheel for the honor of being the new EV fall guy while Jim Farley sits in the corner browsing Bring A Trailer listings.

JaredTheGeek
Member
JaredTheGeek
2 hours ago
Reply to  NC Miata NA

This is exactly why the old guard auto manufacturers are in trouble. They are a massive bureaucracy. We have heard these stories over and over again. Decision by committee.

Parsko
Member
Parsko
1 hour ago
Reply to  JaredTheGeek

This is why I chose to not go into the automotive industry 25 years ago despite studying automotive engineering.

Last edited 1 hour ago by Parsko
Username Loading....
Member
Username Loading....
3 hours ago

I know DeliVan is supposed to be short for delivery van, but I keep picturing a fan that you can get various meats, cheeses, and sandwiches from.

Kurt B
Member
Kurt B
3 hours ago

Also secure transport of data using Torch’s Meat Protocol

Son of Dad
Son of Dad
2 hours ago

a food truck with fresh sliced meat and cheese would be awesome

DialMforMiata
Member
DialMforMiata
1 hour ago
Reply to  Son of Dad

Carcuterie!

Jack Trade
Member
Jack Trade
3 hours ago

Not cars, but Yamaha producing both racing motorcycles and grand pianos always makes me smile.

Fjord
Fjord
2 hours ago
Reply to  Jack Trade

Don’t forget brass instruments – I had a Yamaha trombone in junior high school band.

TheDrunkenWrench
Member
TheDrunkenWrench
2 hours ago
Reply to  Jack Trade

Hitachi makes a massager that ALSO makes people smile.

Hoonicus
Hoonicus
1 hour ago
Reply to  Jack Trade

And some damn fine speakers! Got a set.

Andy Individual
Andy Individual
1 hour ago
Reply to  Jack Trade

And synthesizers. The corporate logo is a tuning fork. That comes from the engine side of the business. 😉

JunkerDave
JunkerDave
1 hour ago
Reply to  Jack Trade

I have always liked that Yamaha’s company logo features not motor vehicles but tuning forks. And that Toyota’s is a needle and thread.

Ottomottopean
Member
Ottomottopean
54 minutes ago
Reply to  Jack Trade

All of the major Japanese bike manufacturers really diversify their portfolios. Look at Honda with all the lawn equipment and generators and jets even. I guess they gave up on robots.

Kawasaki makes all kinds of watercraft. Suzuki is probably the least diversified but still makes various boat engines and other watercraft.

But the piano might be the most divergent, non-vehicle type of endeavor.

Tbird
Member
Tbird
3 hours ago

Chrysler Air Raid Sirens!

Pneumatic Tool
Pneumatic Tool
3 hours ago

They can call themselves the Department of Fuzzy Bunnies if they want to. Until Congress votes and approves the change, they are still the DOD.

Ferdinand
Member
Ferdinand
3 hours ago

There are many ways to look at the affordability of cars, and price isn’t always the best one, if only because it can be skewed by buyers grabbing giant crossovers. Another way to look at it is the way Cox Automotive/Moody’s does, which is to look at how many weeks it takes the average household to afford the average new car, and numbers continue to improve:

Couldn’t this be skewed by buyers choosing cheaper cars because they feel less confident in their long-term ability to afford a more expensive one? The statistic doesn’t really fix your concern, it just makes the connection a bit less direct.

*Jason*
*Jason*
1 hour ago
Reply to  Ferdinand

Yes, the average transaction price for a new vehicle is highly skewed by new car buyers picking different vehicle. Customers trading a Camry for a Highlander as an example.

A better way is to look at how many weeks of income it takes the median household to purchase the same car over time. Say a base 4 door Corolla in 1995, 2005, 2015, 2025…. By this metric every class of vehicle outside of trucks is cheaper today than 30 years ago.

James McHenry
Member
James McHenry
3 hours ago

tbq: Ford’s Charcoal Grill – and Charcoal! – Probably qualifies. So too does VW’s Currywurst und Ketchup.

Also “Delivan” sounds like “Delavan”, which is a town nearby and this amuses me.

TheDrunkenWrench
Member
TheDrunkenWrench
2 hours ago
Reply to  James McHenry

Is it full of Delicas?

Tbird
Member
Tbird
2 hours ago

Probably Delicuts.

James McHenry
Member
James McHenry
1 hour ago

I wish. Delavan’s rural central IL, so it’s more likely 3/4- ton Diesels.

Porschebago
Porschebago
2 hours ago
Reply to  James McHenry

No answer for today’s query will top VW’s Currywurst.

Fun fact: today’s Kingsford charcoal can trace its lineage to the charcoal produced by Ford from Model T part offcuts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsford_(charcoal)

James McHenry
Member
James McHenry
1 hour ago
Reply to  Porschebago

I’d forgotten which brand it was, I just remembered they made the grills from an old Car Talk Puzzler. But looking at the Kingsford logo, you can almost see the family resemblance between the Blue Oval and the Red one.

TheNewt
Member
TheNewt
2 hours ago
Reply to  James McHenry

Delivan makes me picture a van driving around delivering cold cut sandwiches.

Hotdoughnutsnow
Hotdoughnutsnow
3 hours ago

I feel like the department of defense war is just playing war and doing things they think are cool. “Remember in World Ward II, when all the factories started making planes and tanks? Everybody loved that! We should do that again, that would be rad!”

RAMbunctious
RAMbunctious
1 hour ago

It’s just a bunch of losers that aren’t even qualified to run a fantasy football league cosplaying as “tough”.

Sir Digby Chicken Ceasar
Sir Digby Chicken Ceasar
30 minutes ago

It’s nothing but a bunch of overgrown children who never matured past playing with G.I. Joes.

4jim
4jim
3 hours ago

My vote is Volkswagen own branded currywurst sausage.
also Ford Tri-motor and HondaJet.

Also If all that is left of a civilization is war and weapons. it is screwed.

Last edited 3 hours ago by 4jim
PlatinumZJ
Member
PlatinumZJ
1 hour ago
Reply to  4jim

And Volkswagen’s curry ketchup!

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